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Feb 22, 2014 8:49 AM
#101
Reverb_Shock said: In my opinion, no there isn't. It's my favorite anime. However, there is no such thing as being the best anime, so in other people's eyes, yes there are anime better than Steins;Gate. |
Feb 22, 2014 9:22 AM
#102
tsudecimo said: daedroth4 said: No, I don't think so. From how time travel is used to enhance the narrative Madoka's time trave [.....] Are you seriously gonna claim that Mayuri is a plot device, when the MC of Madoka is the biggest plot device of all time? . Also nice spoilers. Whoops. But yes, I'm claiming that Mayuri is a plot device and Madoka is not. Two reasons: 1) Madoka has a personality. In general Madoka is seen as being very generic for being the "nice girl" but there are some nuances in the execution that allow her to grow well in her characterization. The way the plot shifts very quickly in PMMM is particularly helpful here because as the way Madoka and the other characters change how they view the world multiple times in succession, it also allows the viewer to gain a fuller understanding of their characters. The Madoka in episode 1, episode 4, episode 10, and episode 12 are meaningfully different from each other. I also want to add that changes in the context of the plot can make decisions from a character more meaningful as long as they recognize and appreciate those aspects of the plot, even if that character makes the same decision multiple times. Madoka decides that she wants to be a magical girl in episode 3, and then decides to do so again in episode 11. But at the end of the show she really understands what she is putting on the line to make her wish, and even if the decision itself is the same, that makes the decision meaningful and a sign of real character growth. 2) Madoka actively participates to affect the plot of the show, Mayuri does not. Even though most of her decisions are rendered ineffective, the fact that she is deciding things for herself and taking action to change the course of the plot helps her development as a character, but also makes her into someone who is not a plot device. As well, the fact that at most points during the show she has the option to make her wish and dramatically change the course of the show further supports that. That she chooses not to do this for most of the show reveals more about her character and demonstrates significant character development when she does end up deciding to make her wish. |
Feb 22, 2014 9:34 AM
#103
A couple of hundred. |
I probably regret this post by now. |
Feb 22, 2014 9:37 AM
#104
JD2411 said: yes there are better anime and imo steins gate shouldn't be in the top 10 But Fairy Tail should. Am I right or am I right? Sorry, I had to. |
5 main aspects I base my ratings on: 1. Did DramaEnthusiast make a thread about it? 2. Is it better than Breaking Bad? 3. Did MellowJello recommend the shit out of it? 4. Has it caused a (very entertaining) shitstorm on MAL? 5. Is it actually good? Scratch the fifth point, it's not very relevant... |
Feb 22, 2014 9:41 AM
#105
Opinions and tastes. If you're someone who actually enjoyed the first ten or so episodes of Steins;Gate then It'd be hard to name anything you'd consider better. But if you're someone who was dying of boredom waiting for the show to go somewhere, anything that is enjoyable the entire run would be considered better. |
Feb 22, 2014 9:43 AM
#106
the actual answer doesnt exist as different people will enjoy it to different varying degrees, something may top it for some and others it reigns supreme RLinksoul said: the first 12 episodes are perfectly fine and enjoyable, shows still just a 8 to me and i can think of many shows i personally enjoyed way more.If you're someone who actually enjoyed the first ten or so episodes of Steins;Gate then It'd be hard to name anything you'd consider better. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Feb 22, 2014 9:44 AM
#107
FreshPrinceofMAL said: There are plenty of anime better than steins gate. Correction, there are SO many. |
I think you'd look lovely with your wrists slit. |
Feb 22, 2014 9:44 AM
#108
Feb 22, 2014 9:45 AM
#109
true answer |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Feb 22, 2014 9:48 AM
#110
I agree. |
Feb 22, 2014 10:01 AM
#111
There just isn't a real answer because it all boils down to people's subjective opinion. Steins;Gate remains the highest rated anime on my list, but I haven't exactly watched a whole lot of anime so far. |
Feb 22, 2014 10:16 AM
#112
RLinksoul said: I was bored through most of the first half and the godawful harem episodes in the second half.Opinions and tastes. If you're someone who actually enjoyed the first ten or so episodes of Steins;Gate then It'd be hard to name anything you'd consider better. But if you're someone who was dying of boredom waiting for the show to go somewhere, anything that is enjoyable the entire run would be considered better. I also have the opinion that Guilty Crown was immensely enjoyable the whole way through. Guess which one I liked better? |
Feb 22, 2014 10:18 AM
#113
Feb 22, 2014 10:19 AM
#114
SeibaaHomu said: Dammit, why did you have to be careful with your words?Guess which one is better? |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
Feb 22, 2014 10:20 AM
#115
SeibaaHomu said: RedRoseFring said: Well maybe you should stop throwing around terms that you don't know the meaning of. You've basically come out and admitted that the show was literally too deep for you. More to the point that's not even what Madoka is. The show never once tried to tear apart and analyse the different tropes in magical girl anime. In fact, it's so far removed from those tropes that it shouldn't even belong in the same genre.I already said Madoka is a "deconstruction of the magical girl genre" (whatever that's supposed to mean), so of course it's more than just a time travel story. Of course, with dark and edgy being the current trend, its popularity is no surprise. I don't like Madoka because it's dark. I like it because it's good. All of my friends who I showed Madoka to didn't like it because it made them want to slit their wrists or else they would have loved Mirai Nikki too. Speaking of which, Mirai Nikki is way more dark and edgy than Madoka so that means it's way more popular right? Right?.Wow. My sarcasm apparently was 2deep4u. And yes, Mirai Nikki is generally more popular than Madoka because of Yuno. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Feb 22, 2014 10:21 AM
#116
Forgetfulness said: I really can't believe you're making a problem out of it, it's like you're looking for a fight.JackFisher said: Doesn't serve much purpose (except looking better to him) while taking up a ton of room. Forgetfulness said: Because he can.@MajinSaga Why the heck did you put an empty line between each one? Somewhat inconvenient if you ask me RLinksoul said: Obviously, nice fallacy to try disregard what everyone is saying about s;gOpinions and tastes. |
RX-782Feb 22, 2014 10:28 AM
Feb 22, 2014 10:27 AM
#117
daedroth4 said: I have a very poor opinion of Steins;Gate personally. I think there are many better shows out there, such as Madoka which is a show that SG gets compared to a lot but can't match up to in quality. RedRoseFring said: skyzblue said: Let's look at the critically acclaimed anime series in 2011: Anohana, Usagi drop, Madoka Magica, Steins Gate, Mawaru penguindrum.. If I would rank them in order of merit: Mawaru penguindrum Madoka magica Usagi drop Steins gate Anohana.. Steins gate wasn't even the best of 2011, let alone of all time.. Steins gate pulled off a much better time travel story than Madoka. In fact, Steins;gate is everything Madoka hoped to be. No, I don't think so. From how time travel is used to enhance the narrative Madoka's time travel is far better than Steins;Gate. For example, the halfway turning point of SG where Mayuri gets killed off multiple times is supposed to be one of the key plot points in the show. But Mayuri got almost no character development during the entire anime. When this point in the story comes around she is an exceptionally flat character that only garners sympathy from people by acting cute and then dying. She is a character I'm willing to call a plot device because she lacks a personality and doesn't have a part in contributing to the direction of the plot, rather she just idly has plot events happen to her. I don't think a plot device character is necessarily bad if they are a minor character, but Mayuri is the third most important character in Steins;Gate, which is why I consider this to be a severe flaw. Madoka episode 10 is easily better. And "Steins;gate is everything Madoka hoped to be"? I think that's a statement that deserves to be elaborated on. I couldn't begin to take the time travel in Madoka seriously because Homura went back in time and did the exact same thing everytime expecting different results. I was just completely boggled at how she could even take that kind of approach and be unnecessarily cryptic. At least Okabe tried to save Mayuri in multiple ways. And Mayuri did have a personality, unless you believe character development = change, just as much as one could say for Homura. Actually she plays a bigger role in motivating Okabe than Mami. You can claim anyone in both series were plot devices, from Mami who's purpose was to get her head bitten off to Madoka who took so long to find the simple solution to the problem. |
"Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
Feb 22, 2014 10:28 AM
#118
'Course, but there are countless more that are worse than Steins;Gate. It was a great anime but definitely not the best. Despite how good it was, it's flaws were so obvious that they sorta stared you in the face. |
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕ |
Feb 22, 2014 10:35 AM
#119
Forgetfulness said: I thought it was a more interesting topic than "is x better than y" like this thread is supposed to be aboutNope_ said: Meh, I was curious. I didn't want to start anythingForgetfulness said: I really can't believe you're making a problem out of it, it's like you're looking for a fight.JackFisher said: Doesn't serve much purpose (except looking better to him) while taking up a ton of room. Forgetfulness said: Because he can.@MajinSaga Why the heck did you put an empty line between each one? Somewhat inconvenient if you ask me RLinksoul said: Obviously, nice fallacy to try disregard what everyone is saying about s;gOpinions and tastes. Why don't we just drop this subject? :/ |
Feb 22, 2014 10:39 AM
#120
I highly recommend that Saritur give Gurren Lagann a try. |
Feb 22, 2014 10:40 AM
#121
RedRoseFring said: daedroth4 said: I have a very poor opinion of Steins;Gate personally. I think there are many better shows out there, such as Madoka which is a show that SG gets compared to a lot but can't match up to in quality. RedRoseFring said: skyzblue said: Let's look at the critically acclaimed anime series in 2011: Anohana, Usagi drop, Madoka Magica, Steins Gate, Mawaru penguindrum.. If I would rank them in order of merit: Mawaru penguindrum Madoka magica Usagi drop Steins gate Anohana.. Steins gate wasn't even the best of 2011, let alone of all time.. Steins gate pulled off a much better time travel story than Madoka. In fact, Steins;gate is everything Madoka hoped to be. No, I don't think so. From how time travel is used to enhance the narrative Madoka's time travel is far better than Steins;Gate. For example, the halfway turning point of SG where Mayuri gets killed off multiple times is supposed to be one of the key plot points in the show. But Mayuri got almost no character development during the entire anime. When this point in the story comes around she is an exceptionally flat character that only garners sympathy from people by acting cute and then dying. She is a character I'm willing to call a plot device because she lacks a personality and doesn't have a part in contributing to the direction of the plot, rather she just idly has plot events happen to her. I don't think a plot device character is necessarily bad if they are a minor character, but Mayuri is the third most important character in Steins;Gate, which is why I consider this to be a severe flaw. Madoka episode 10 is easily better. And "Steins;gate is everything Madoka hoped to be"? I think that's a statement that deserves to be elaborated on. I couldn't begin to take the time travel in Madoka seriously because Homura went back in time and did the exact same thing everytime expecting different results. I was just completely boggled at how she could even take that kind of approach and be unnecessarily cryptic. At least Okabe tried to save Mayuri in multiple ways. And Mayuri did have a personality, unless you believe character development = change, just as much as one could say for Homura. Actually she plays a bigger role in motivating Okabe than Mami. You can claim anyone in both series were plot devices, from Mami who's purpose was to get her head bitten off to Madoka who took so long to find the simple solution to the problem. Homurq did try to save Madoka in various ways unless of course you weren't paying attention to the fucking story. Each time she went back, something different happened. It's not like Homurq kept repeating the exact same scenario over and over. Yes, she had to keep fighting walpurgis, but that's because there's no way to get around that. |
Feb 22, 2014 10:43 AM
#122
great anime but not the best . ill say its top 3 of 2010s if not 1 |
Feb 22, 2014 10:44 AM
#123
Yeah...IMO all the ones I rated better than 4/10 |
הלב שלי כבר מת |
Feb 22, 2014 10:52 AM
#124
Feb 22, 2014 10:58 AM
#125
Anything I've rated higher than an 8/10. |
Salmon is delicious. |
Feb 22, 2014 11:05 AM
#126
RedRoseFring said: I couldn't begin to take the time travel in Madoka seriously because Homura went back in time and did the exact same thing everytime expecting different results. I was just completely boggled at how she could even take that kind of approach and be unnecessarily cryptic. At least Okabe tried to save Mayuri in multiple ways. And Mayuri did have a personality, unless you believe character development = change, just as much as one could say for Homura. Actually she plays a bigger role in motivating Okabe than Mami. You can claim anyone in both series were plot devices, from Mami who's purpose was to get her head bitten off to Madoka who took so long to find the simple solution to the problem. Homura did not do the exact same thing every time. I think it's very clear from episode 10 that she tried multiple different things and IMO exaggerating so much hurts the credibility of this argument. I should probably clarify, by character development I do mean change but I agree with what you are implying here, which is that character development isn't the only factor in how good a character is. I think how dynamic a character's starting personality is also plays a factor, so that even a character that doesn't have much development can be a great character if their base personality was already excellent to begin with (I would consider Fate/Zero Rider to be a great example of how this kind of character can work). My point about Mayuri's personality still holds here though, because her starting personality and development are both terrible. Almost all she does is act cute; there is very little else and nothing that has real substance. Can you bring more justification to support the plot device part of your argument?I'm not sure how we're working the semantics here, I get the sense that when you're saying "plot device" you mean "something that drives the plot forward". However, the way I am using it in this argument and I think the way most people use that phrase is to mean "something that drives the plot forward and nothing else". The thing is, yes Mami's death drives the plot forward, but that is not the only thing her character was. She had a personality, a better personality than Mayuri actually which I think shows that Steins;Gate is severely outclassed by Madoka in character quality considering Mami was alive for all of 2-3 episodes. And as I also mentioned before, all of the main characters in Madoka have agency in the plot and act to change its course. I can't say this about a very large number of the characters in SG, and that is why I consider the cast of Madoka to not just be more than plot devices, but also a decisively superior group of characters. Speaking of plot devices, I'd also say that between the key plot fixing abilities in both shows, Madoka's wish is a much better narrative device compared to Okabe's Reading Steiner. The problem with the Reading Steiner is that it is an exception to the rules of the show established by the premise (where everyone has a small reading steiner, but Okabe's is abnormally sharp), and this exception never gets explained in the show. In other words, it is not a part of the premise which are the base assumptions the viewer must allow the story to make, but it is also never given a justification for existing, which makes it a simple plot convenience. This makes the Reading Steiner worse than the Death Note and the Geass, and far, far worse than Madoka's wish (and PMMM wishes in general) because the wishes in the show help to develop important thematic ideas in Madoka and help to form the show's message. Compared to that the Reading Steiner is just a piece of bad writing. |
Feb 22, 2014 11:26 AM
#127
Not everyone thinks Steins Gate is the best anime. I think it's great but I could name better. |
Feb 22, 2014 11:57 AM
#128
You tell me? Do you think there's a better anime than Steins; Gate? It's a subjective question, don't expect an objective answer. |
My anime blog Latest Post: The Zero Requiem (Analysis of the Ending of Code Geass) |
Feb 22, 2014 12:06 PM
#129
peeyaj said: 1. Shinsekai Yori Ermagerd! Shernserki Yeri!!! |
Feb 22, 2014 12:07 PM
#130
No, but there are many things I gave the same rating. Anohana Arpeggio of Blue Steel Aquarian Age Armored Trooper VOTOMS Armor Hunter Mellowlink Baccano Beck Blue Gender Cowboy Bebop Crest of the Stars/Banner of the Stars 1 and 2 Ergo Proxy Escaflowne Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex/2nd Gig Haibane Renmei Heroic Age Hiigurashi no Naku Koroni/Kai Infinite Ryvius Kanon (2006) Kemonozume Kurenai Kurokami Legend of the Galactic Heroes Monster Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit Myself, Yourself Planetes Real Drive Rideback Rumbling Hearts Space Battleship Yamato 2199 Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 Welcome to the NHK |
KruszerFeb 22, 2014 12:30 PM
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