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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- I was hoping that the captains would get resureccion forms out of this but oh well. the whole pill thing is kind of an ass pull but kisuke made sense of it all. not much really happened in this chapter but we got a lot of information so i'd say it was a pretty decent chapter for the most part. i also like cang du's personality so far seems like a pretty honorable dude. |
CripborneOct 8, 2013 12:35 AM
| I love it when Urahara and Kurotsuchi explain things. |
| There we go. Uruhara found another bug :D. He is good at this ! |
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| >Hollow cells are poison to Quincies and damages them through Bankai transfer >Ichigo is partially a Quincy Fuck you, Kubo. |
NidhoeggrOct 8, 2013 4:10 AM
| Jojolion anime when? |
| So those Quincies does have a weakness and it looks like this is one of the reason why none of them were able to steal Ichigo,Vaizard and Arrancar bankai !! |
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Wonderweiss92 said: Nidhoeggr said: >Hollow cells are poison to Quincies and damage Bankai >Ichigo uses a Bankai Fuck you, Kubo. Ichigo isn't just a Quincy he is a hybrid between Quincy and Shinigami so it doesn't apply for him. How about thinking before writing? @Nidhoenggr They don't damage bankai but quincies @Wonderweiss92 How do you know it doesn't apply for him? He is indeed hybrid but we don't really know how quincy, shinigami and hollow part of his soul works togheter. Now I want to see Suì-Fēng with their "new" poison in her shikai form, not this wing thing around her body! Her speed+1 hit to kill VS tentacles = wonderful fight. Don't do bankai, please. :( Now quincies suppose to fight in distant(using bows or similar weapons/powers). the whole pill thing is kind of an ass pull but kisuke made sense of it all. Not really. It was mention in the chapter when mother&father of Ichigo got connected that quincies & hollows are indeed "contradiction". I don't remember this chapter very well but I guess there is more. And this chapter is great. First chapter for few weeks/months that give us something(informations). 5/5 |
WannabitemeOct 8, 2013 4:05 AM
Wannabiteme said: They don't damage bankai but quincies Ichigo is still partially a Quincy. And given that Kubo never fucking explains anything about the soul aging process or other integral parts of his race framework but instead just makes up random crap that tries to avoid the main issue we won't get a sufficient answer anyway. Wonderweiss92 said: Nidhoeggr said: >Hollow cells are poison to Quincies and damage Bankai >Ichigo uses a Bankai Fuck you, Kubo. Ichigo isn't just a Quincy he is a hybrid between Quincy and Shinigami so it doesn't apply for him. How about thinking before writing? Because that's how genes work... Btw, why are Hollows/arrancars trained to have Quincy powers in HM then? Once you get a bit more into the whole Urahara explanation you realize this fucks up a whole lot about everything that has been previously stated in the manga. But then again, this is Bleach: Kubo makes the plot up as he goes along with... whatever he think looks cool. |
NidhoeggrOct 8, 2013 4:08 AM
| Jojolion anime when? |
Nidhoeggr said: Wannabiteme said: They don't damage bankai but quincies Ichigo is still partially a Quincy. And given that Kubo never fucking explains anything about the soul aging process or other integral parts of his race framework but instead just makes up random crap that tries to avoid the main issue we won't get a sufficient answer anyway. Wonderweiss92 said: Nidhoeggr said: >Hollow cells are poison to Quincies and damage Bankai >Ichigo uses a Bankai Fuck you, Kubo. Ichigo isn't just a Quincy he is a hybrid between Quincy and Shinigami so it doesn't apply for him. How about thinking before writing? Because that's how genes work... Btw, why are Hollows/arrancars trained to have Quincy powers in HM then? Once you get a bit more into the whole Urahara explanation you realize this fucks up a whole lot about everything that has been previously stated in the manga. But then again, this is Bleach: Kubo makes the plot up as he goes along with... whatever he think looks cool. 1) I know he is partially a Quincy but I corrected that hollow doesn't effect bankai(as for Urahara explenation). And @aging=> yeah, but we have lot of informations so I don't call it crap. 2) Why they are trained? Maybe because they want both power(hollow&quincy) but they don't want to experiment on quincy? But what does it f** up? |
| One of the better chapters in a while! It was great to see Mayuri collaborating with Urahara. So Quincies are able to steal a shinigami's bankai but they don't want to steal an Arrancar's resurrección since it would dis-merit them. That black pill is a pretty cheap plot device but it's still plausible I guess. '"Hollowfy" a bankai for a few seconds' - That sounds way too cool. :D I loved the last page with Mayuri saying 'that bankai will become 'posion' for quincy'. Good job Kubo! I really want to see Grimmjow already now that he seems more relevant in this 'war'. :3 |
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| If hollow powers are poison to qunicies how was Kirge able to absorb Ayon in hueco mundo? |
| Never settle with words what you can accomplish with a flame thrower. |
aw454wtr said: Exactly! And according to this latest chapter Masaki should have died instantly from having that hollow inside her.If hollow powers are poison to qunicies how was Kirge able to absorb Ayon in hueco mundo? |
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| Also back when kubo first introduced quincies Urarhara himself said that they were spiritually aware humans that created techniques to fight hollows, but now he is saying that being a quincy makes you weak against hollows.... and when masaki's body was invaded by White (which should have killed her) Urarhara said that he could stop soul suicide from happing but in order to stop her from hollowfiying her soul had to be linked with Isshin's to keep the hollow at bay. Now he is saying that it is impossible for quincy to hollowfy. And stranger still, Hollows can become quincies even though they are supposed to be so incompatible. |
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Nidhoeggr said: >Hollow cells are poison to Quincies and damages them through Bankai transfer >Ichigo is partially a Quincy Fuck you, Kubo. I don't know if you've forgotten, but Ichigo is part Shinigami. He most likely has to genes to fight against the "poison." That's if Kubo used logic, if he didn't then he'll probably make Ichigo go through some conflict of powers later on. kizu-kun said: Also back when kubo first introduced quincies Urarhara himself said that they were spiritually aware humans that created techniques to fight hollows, but now he is saying that being a quincy makes you weak against hollows.... and when masaki's body was invaded by White (which should have killed her) Urarhara said that he could stop soul suicide from happing but in order to stop her from hollowfiying her soul had to be linked with Isshin's to keep the hollow at bay. Now he is saying that it is impossible for quincy to hollowfy. And stranger still, Hollows can become quincies even though they are supposed to be so incompatible. He never said it was impossible for them to hollowfy, he said they don't have the genes/antibodies to fight against the "poison." Misaki had to be linked to Isshin's because his genes/soul could fight against hollows. Hollows were trained into becoming quinces, they weren't born Quinces, they just learned how to manipulate reishi but aren't nearly as good as a born and full blood Quincy.. Urahahra said that hollowfication wasn't meant for quinces when Misaki was undergoing it that's why he needed something stronger than the vaccine he used on the shinigamis and that was linking Misaki and Isshin's souls because he was powerful enough(because he's a shinigami) to fight back against the hollow. The thing I don't understand is that Quinces have the power to create an arrow that literally destroy's a hollow along with it's soul, but they don't have the genes to fight against the hollow if they absorb them. |
penguindrum264Oct 8, 2013 8:21 AM
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Nidhoeggr said: Wannabiteme said: They don't damage bankai but quincies Ichigo is still partially a Quincy. And given that Kubo never fucking explains anything about the soul aging process or other integral parts of his race framework but instead just makes up random crap that tries to avoid the main issue we won't get a sufficient answer anyway. Wonderweiss92 said: Nidhoeggr said: >Hollow cells are poison to Quincies and damage Bankai >Ichigo uses a Bankai Fuck you, Kubo. Ichigo isn't just a Quincy he is a hybrid between Quincy and Shinigami so it doesn't apply for him. How about thinking before writing? Because that's how genes work... Btw, why are Hollows/arrancars trained to have Quincy powers in HM then? Once you get a bit more into the whole Urahara explanation you realize this fucks up a whole lot about everything that has been previously stated in the manga. But then again, this is Bleach: Kubo makes the plot up as he goes along with... whatever he think looks cool. The reason why they have this weakness to hollow reiatsu is because of their lack of antibodies against them. Ichigo was born an hybrid, he is neither a shinigami, a quincy or a hollow. He is a perfect blend between these three therefore he has an immunity to that. It is also not clear whether they mentioned that Quincy in general or the quincies from the Steinritter have this antibodies problem. Also I dare to say that the stronger the quincy, the less effect that pill will have. I do not think that it will even faze Bach. |
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| So the key to defeat Quincy is to be a Hollow? |
I ♥ Two Syaorans from Tsubasa RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE and TRC!!! |
| Actually we need more information on the past. The way I see it there are two races of quincies. -Those like the steinritter that are nothing but souls like the Shinigami. These are the one considered the 'magic hunters' in Urahara's story. The Steinritter is composed of them. -Those that lived in the human world for centuries. These ones are humans who can use quincy power because they are descendant of Bach. They are the ones that tried to mimic these 'magic hunters'. Obviously being human is being able to adapt. The human quincies from a thousand years ago were probably barely different from the soul quincies but time passed ever since. Since the human world is constantly affected by Hollow you'd think that the weak one died and those resistant to it reproduced so that this antibodies problem was fixed by natural selection. We're not talking about three or four generations, it was a thousand year ago. |
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| Oh, so does that mean Vizards(Rose and Shinji) could use their bankais all along? Oh, Urahara, you silly bastard, we could use that info earlier. :) |
| I love how people, trying to defend Kubo's random nonsensical mess, read so much into stuff Kubo has probably been thinking an hour or two about, ignoring plot holes left and right. |
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| So, some part of the Hollow essence is lethal to Quincies... Misaka was saved when Ichgio's father gave up his powers to defend her soul but I agree with the majority here that there're just so many plotholes here. I'm sure he's gonna explain Kirge's absorption of Aion sooner or later, Sternritter J felt kind of different from the rest of the Sternritters, he seemed more powerful (not counting Sternritter B, Jugram Haschwalth) and he seemed to know a lot about Ishida's strength for some reason. But why did he keep such important information until now... and how the hell did Arrancar manage to become Quincies? |
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Kuchenlight said: I love how people, trying to defend Kubo's random nonsensical mess, read so much into stuff Kubo has probably been thinking an hour or two about, ignoring plot holes left and right. lmao i was just thinking the same. trying to apply logic to the world of bleach is an exercise in futility. reishi and kido still don't make any logical sense and these beans that kubo probably came up with in a matter of minutes most definitely don't. it's just bleach guys...learn to turn off your brain to an extent. |
| What are all these words doing in my Bleach chapter? |
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tankoubon-feind said: When Kubo tries so hard to make clever plot twists, it's hard to let it go. If he wasn't trying so hard to be.. more, if Bleach was just "I want to be the strongest" and "friends are great" and *insert another generic shonen slogan here* then I wouldn't have cared as much...Kuchenlight said: I love how people, trying to defend Kubo's random nonsensical mess, read so much into stuff Kubo has probably been thinking an hour or two about, ignoring plot holes left and right. lmao i was just thinking the same. trying to apply logic to the world of bleach is an exercise in futility. reishi and kido still don't make any logical sense and these beans that kubo probably came up with in a matter of minutes most definitely don't. it's just bleach guys...learn to turn off your brain to an extent. |
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penguindrum264 said: kizu-kun said: He never said it was impossible for them to hollowfy, he said they don't have the genes/antibodies to fight against the "poison." Misaki had to be linked to Isshin's because his genes/soul could fight against hollows. Hollows were trained into becoming quinces, they weren't born Quinces, they just learned how to manipulate reishi but aren't nearly as good as a born and full blood Quincy.. Urahahra said that hollowfication wasn't meant for quinces when Misaki was undergoing it that's why he needed something stronger than the vaccine he used on the shinigamis and that was linking Misaki and Isshin's souls because he was powerful enough(because he's a shinigami) to fight back against the hollow. I'm going off of the manga stream translation which said that they "wouldn't even be granted the option of hollowfiction" because hollow reiatsu causes a quincy soul to rot and be reduce to nothingness. And back when they were saving Misaki he said the surgery needed to be done in order for her to"live like a normal girl" which kinda implies that she would have turned into a hollow hybrid. I guess one way you can explain it is that he didn't know how deadly hollows were to quincy back then. Still doesn't explain why Misaki's soul didn't start to rot the moment the hollow went into her body. The pills seem to have had a pretty instant effect on Cang Du and he was only exposed to a fraction of hollow energy for a few seconds. penguindrum264 said: The thing I don't understand is that Quinces have the power to create an arrow that literally destroy's a hollow along with it's soul, but they don't have the genes to fight against the hollow if they absorb them. Agreed. Though I guess you can say that their techniques were designed to destroy hollows and hollow power naturally destroys quincies. Sort of like a water type pokemon learning an Ice move to protect itself from Grass type. |
kizu-kunOct 8, 2013 10:19 AM
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kizu-kun said: penguindrum264 said: kizu-kun said: Yea the fact that she didn't start rotting is a plot hole. I think Kubo was trying to come up with something based on the fact that Urahara told Isshin and Ryuken that Quinces aren't meant to undergo Hollowfication and that Isshin had to save Misaki, but like always he misses details that sometimes contradict events before it. |
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| Urahara u smart cunt... :) |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Pretty good chapter. I like the explanation made and at least for me it makes a little sense. Masaki survival. She was human (lots of humans near her) in the first place and then pure blood quincy. This could slow down the process but the poison was still spreading within her body. Should Urahara not help her the hollow would have devoured her soul and kill her. I don't think Allon should be classified as hollow. The again his reiatsu was of hollow origin so maybe it had some effect on him. Would Opie survive long after this fight if Urahara / Grimmjow didn't finish him off? Maybe the process of Soul Suicide already started in him. Opie went all out in that fight with Volstanding. This could also slow the process. Ichigo resistance to Soul Suicide. That he inherited from his mother and father. It could also be that he perfected it. After the flashback mini arc Ichigo met his new Asauchi. It had hollow mask. It's like Ichigo perfected Aizen experiment and merged his hollow and shinigami power into one. Ichigo new Bankai could be a Ressurection type. I'm trying to hard here >_< What I want to say is that Ichigo is Human, Soul Hybrid and Quincy. Ichigo was born as human. He inherited Quincy blood and Hollow reiatsu from his mother and Shinigami reiatsu from his father. Soul Hybrid is when your Hollow power acts as Shinigami power. They are one and the same. Again Ichigo Asauchi had a hollow mask. Ichigo still runs on Urahara experiment with Masaki. His soul is in balance thanks to being human with Quincy blood and having hollow and shinigami reiatsu fused into one. I want to see what other effect this new hollowfied Bankai will have on Cang Du. Just because a wing fell off and blood came out is not enough for now. What I hope the most in this case is that Shinigami wont get their Bankai back right away :D With this new revelations made in the chapter I start to think that Komamura secret technique could involve some sort of hollowfication or use of hollow reiatsu. :D |
| great little explanation and all but its still pointless if we just return to the same old captains are now too powerful to be stopped until the big bad villain appears and needs Ichigo to stop him. I mean Byakuya and Zaraki haven't even showed up yet. I fear the Sternritter are gonna get walked over just like the Arrancar and Espada. |
| That sternritter has no right to use Hitsugaya's bankai. At least they found a way to stop them from using them. Urahara is a genius. |
"I’ve set myself to become the King of the Pirates…and if I die trying…then at least I tried!" Monkey D. Luffy (One Piece) |
Morcombe said: great little explanation and all but its still pointless if we just return to the same old captains are now too powerful to be stopped until the big bad villain appears and needs Ichigo to stop him. I mean Byakuya and Zaraki haven't even showed up yet. I fear the Sternritter are gonna get walked over just like the Arrancar and Espada. Morcombe said: great little explanation and all but its still pointless if we just return to the same old captains are now too powerful to be stopped until the big bad villain appears and needs Ichigo to stop him. I mean Byakuya and Zaraki haven't even showed up yet. I fear the Sternritter are gonna get walked over just like the Arrancar and Espada. Hmmm..By the way things are going, I wouldn't fully say quinces are going to be annihilated yet. For some reason it just seems like they were prepared for this to occur. Might just be me though. |
hungry_bunny said: tankoubon-feind said: When Kubo tries so hard to make clever plot twists, it's hard to let it go. If he wasn't trying so hard to be.. more, if Bleach was just "I want to be the strongest" and "friends are great" and *insert another generic shonen slogan here* then I wouldn't have cared as much...Kuchenlight said: I love how people, trying to defend Kubo's random nonsensical mess, read so much into stuff Kubo has probably been thinking an hour or two about, ignoring plot holes left and right. lmao i was just thinking the same. trying to apply logic to the world of bleach is an exercise in futility. reishi and kido still don't make any logical sense and these beans that kubo probably came up with in a matter of minutes most definitely don't. it's just bleach guys...learn to turn off your brain to an extent. Hey, I'm not saying he shouldn't try for it to be "more". But if you try for that, you should give WAY more thought to it, than he does. At least that's what I think. Also there's nothing wrong with simplicity, if it's done well. But Kubo doesn't seem to know if he wants to do one thing or the other (if he even CAN do one properly). Mostly his quality is dropping right into generic shounen asspulling and in-the-end-themain-character-does-EVERYTHING with the more "complicated" matters being neglected. |
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aw454wtr said: If hollow powers are poison to qunicies how was Kirge able to absorb Ayon in hueco mundo? He absorbed his body, I mean material he's make of. I've done some research. :) "Uses the most basic ability to gather Reishi in the most powerful way, by enslaving it. It can literally tear away the components that make up spiritual based objects such as those that make up Hueco Mundo and Soul Society as well as the bodies of spiritual beings." |
penguindrum264 said: kizu-kun said: penguindrum264 said: kizu-kun said: Yea the fact that she didn't start rotting is a plot hole. I think Kubo was trying to come up with something based on the fact that Urahara told Isshin and Ryuken that Quinces aren't meant to undergo Hollowfication and that Isshin had to save Misaki, but like always he misses details that sometimes contradict events before it. It says it was poison, but it never said how quickly it would deteriorate the soul. Keep in mind she was dying, these quincies merely lost the bankai, a power that was stolen, so they instantly lost it. There is rather a big difference between losing a stolen power and not being hurt and actually dying. |
Touch me, you filthy casual~ |
| Urahara, check Mayuri, check Aizen, where you at in times like this? Good chapter overall, the explanation was kinda too long, but it was done well. |
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| Good chapter. |
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antonn said: What are all these words doing in my Bleach chapter? |
BlackSCREEN said: aw454wtr said: If hollow powers are poison to qunicies how was Kirge able to absorb Ayon in hueco mundo? He absorbed his body, I mean material he's make of. I've done some research. :) "Uses the most basic ability to gather Reishi in the most powerful way, by enslaving it. It can literally tear away the components that make up spiritual based objects such as those that make up Hueco Mundo and Soul Society as well as the bodies of spiritual beings." So kirge wore ayon like a peice of armor? |
| Never settle with words what you can accomplish with a flame thrower. |
penguindrum264 said: Nidhoeggr said: >Hollow cells are poison to Quincies and damages them through Bankai transfer >Ichigo is partially a Quincy Fuck you, Kubo. I don't know if you've forgotten, but Ichigo is part Shinigami. He most likely has to genes to fight against the "poison." That's if Kubo used logic, if he didn't then he'll probably make Ichigo go through some conflict of powers later on. kizu-kun said: Also back when kubo first introduced quincies Urarhara himself said that they were spiritually aware humans that created techniques to fight hollows, but now he is saying that being a quincy makes you weak against hollows.... and when masaki's body was invaded by White (which should have killed her) Urarhara said that he could stop soul suicide from happing but in order to stop her from hollowfiying her soul had to be linked with Isshin's to keep the hollow at bay. Now he is saying that it is impossible for quincy to hollowfy. And stranger still, Hollows can become quincies even though they are supposed to be so incompatible. He never said it was impossible for them to hollowfy, he said they don't have the genes/antibodies to fight against the "poison." Misaki had to be linked to Isshin's because his genes/soul could fight against hollows. Hollows were trained into becoming quinces, they weren't born Quinces, they just learned how to manipulate reishi but aren't nearly as good as a born and full blood Quincy.. Urahahra said that hollowfication wasn't meant for quinces when Misaki was undergoing it that's why he needed something stronger than the vaccine he used on the shinigamis and that was linking Misaki and Isshin's souls because he was powerful enough(because he's a shinigami) to fight back against the hollow. The thing I don't understand is that Quinces have the power to create an arrow that literally destroy's a hollow along with it's soul, but they don't have the genes to fight against the hollow if they absorb them. The quincies arrows aren't made of their reishi, they are made of reishi from the surrounding area. It's just that the stronger quincies are stronger and much better at gathering and manipulating that reishi. |
| It was okay. At least it's not gotten to as low as Naruto. |
| Isayama Hajime should be awarded The Manga with The Highest Inconsistencies of Characters' Appearances. He keeps performing multiple plastic surgeries on those Shingeki No Kyojin characters in a SINGLE chapter. Yes, I've read up to the latest chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin manga. Forced myself to read through the kidsketching chapters after the anime's ended. At least from now on, I only have to go through the hell once a month. Patiently awaiting SNK TV/movie/OVA anime-sequel. The 2015 SNK live-action movie would probably suck. |
| Wow... I actually understood everything that was explained. Welp, gonna haul ass now. |
| Urahara trolling like usual lol. He and Mayuri's explanation + the pills seems fair enough, and it looks like the battles will be a bit more fair now. Reveal Grimmjow already, this chapter/Urahara's words on Arrancar was like a teaser for his active role. It was funny seeing Ulquiorra in that panel. |
| I literally though they were fucked at first, but now they have a chance against them at least.... Urahara is the best!! Always rely on him when things go out of hand :) |
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