Resurrected Spotlight Character: Sagara "Urzu 7" Sousuke (Full Metal Panic!) MAL Character Information Page: Sagara Sousuke MAL Favorite Character: #22 (with 1160 favorites) For the next week I would like to have everyone familure with Sousuke discuss what they think makes him an exceptional character. What attributes make him stand out in the ocean of interesting characters that exist in the realms of anime and manga. Unlike the other two subjects I will not force this conversation to fall into any set structure. Characters that are nominated typically get here because they are adept at breaking the existing character molds and defying definition. Because of this freedom I encourage everyone to do their very best to stay on topic and keep any and all debate civil. Have fun and I look forward to seeing what everyone has to say about this character. RESULTS OF THE RE-VOTE POLL: Souseke Sagara was PERMANENTLY inducted into the club Character list: 55 Yes - 70.5% 23 No - 29.5% 24 Don't Know - 23.5% of the total number polled ---------------------------------------------------------------------- RESULTS OF THE RESURRECTION REVOTE Sousuke Sagara was inducted into the club Character list: 47 Yes - 57.32% 11 No - 13.41% 24 I don't know this Character - 29.27% Approximately 6 months from 10/13/08, Sousuke Sagara will have to be revoted for a second and final time --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RESULTS OF THE "YOU DECIDE POLL" Sagara Sousuke was NOT inducted into the club Character list: 40 Yes - 64.52% 22 No - 36.48% 15 I haven't read this Manga - 19.48% of the total number polled To view the old spotlight discussion go here: Spotlight: Sagara Sousuke |
santetjanApr 20, 2009 3:00 PM
| I gave him a 2. The problem with him is the same one afflicting the rest of the first season of FMP; it can't make up its mind about what kind of story it's supposed to be. Are we watching a romance, a comedy, or an action anime? Similarly, is Sousuke a childish idiot purely for comic relief, or a tough, capable hero with ability and empathy far beyond his years? I understand there's supposed to be suspension of disbelief, but I'm constantly drawn out of the story by this. One second, he's an idiot who openly brings firearms to school, not even trying to hide them, the next, he's a badass military operative beating the shit out of terrorists, and outsmarting the enemy. The fuck? That would ordinarily be a 4 for me, but he gets -2 points for being a blatant rip-off of Heero Yuy in character design and taciturn personality, except with more of a comic strain. Easy no. |
| It's a shame that not enough people in this club have read the novels because then they would see how much Sousuke changed. A lot of people just think of him as typical military nut, who produces great slap-stick comedy moments when coupled with Kaname... |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Anime-Destiny said: You need to see Fumoffu and TSR ShaolinRibiero, because Sagara Sousuke really improves in several areas and shows a few differences from his character. From the original FMP! series alone, it does not really give that great of a development for Sagara Sousuke's character. TSR is definitely one series where his character portrays differently and is better developed. Fumoffu is also another series that I enjoy from Sagara Sousuke's character, since it is mainly a comedy itself. I'll watch those in the next week, and they may even improve my ranking of his character, but probably not enough to go up to 7 or any higher. Anime-Destiny said: Also, you need to realize that Sousuke has reside his entire life from his military nature before even going to school. To see his military nature try to fit in from the school he is attending, I find it interesting and somewhat funny to witness. Well of course it's supposed to be funny. That's the whole pay-off right there. (Which has been to death in live action films for years. Quick example being Arnold in Kindergarten Cop) Trouble is, the writers weren't particularly clever or good at comedy, so it all devolves down to oblivious Sousuke doing plainly idiotic things, and then getting beat up by hysterical Japanese schoolgirls with giant raccoon eyes. In the process, they make him seem like a pathetic loser with no understanding of basic human behavior. Then, all of a sudden, the next minute we're to believe he has deep emotional maturity and is a tactical mastermind, let alone a highly trained killer? Does not compute. And no, people who have served in the military from their early teenage years are NOTHING like this. I should know, considering that many of my great-grandfathers, grandfathers, and other relatives all fought in wars as teenagers, some as young as 13, and were school drop-outs. |
| @ShaolinRibiero I'm not so sure about you changing your opinion because of Fumoffu (although there are some classic slapstick moments in the show), but TSR really changed my opinion of him as a character. If you remember the first series, there was an anime original story arc about Sousuke's home country called "The wind that blows at home". I'd be interested in your opinion on that particular part of the series as it shows Sousuke in a very different light compared to the rest of the series. That arc was what made me think he had potential as a character, an opinion that was cemented after watching TSR. I like Sousuke as a character, but only because of the development he shows in The Wind that blows at Home and TSR, most especially because they showed him in situations that his character was more familiar with. TSR especially, highlighted the difficulty he had in adapting to normal life, instead of making him into a loser the way the original series did. Although there are comedy moments in TSR, they're thankfully few and far between. I'll probably vote yes for him, but it will be a purely subjective decision :) |
| What a day! What a lovely Day! |
| He's pretty handsome so yes. |
 |
| I shall be voting no as I will be on all other resurrected spotlights that I can vote on, although on my other standard it would be a yes as he would qualify as being in the top 25 of favorite characters. |
| Combined Mega-post from 3 of my posts in the old thread: :::DISCLAIMER::: Full Metal Panic: First off I'd like to express just how unfortunate it is that nearly everyone here (myself included) had to be introduced to Sousuke through Gonzo's lackluster first season of the FMP anime. Because while they were able to make it very entertaining, they glossed over a lot of subtle character traits in the pursuit of more comedy, the occasional fan service, and in effort to make the good guys and bad guys appear to be more clear cut with less shades of gray. When they did this it made it extremely difficult for any of the viewers to follow the slow but constant growth of Sousuke's character. Ultimately, for those of you who feel that Sousuke is a static unchanging character, you can thank Gonzo for that. Fumoffu: For anyone who watched Fumoffu expecting to see anything other than pure comedy you'll be sadly disappointed. That series follows a number of the short stories written by the author to be nothing much more than a comedic break where he could just have fun playing with his characters in a relatively static environment. There is zero character growth and there was never any effort made to do so in the first place. The Second Raid: Kyo Ani did an excellent job adapting this sequel anime season even though they, like Gonzo, were guilty of taking a few liberties with the story. However, overall I believe they were able to nail Sousake's true character better that I had ever hoped for. The Sousake you observe in TSR is undergoing a constant evolution and is also subjected to a few wild throws which send him on a very violent psychological and emotional roller coaster. This is a reflection the REAL Sousake. The Novels: After reading the most of the novels (which the first season uses novels 1-3 and TSR uses 4-5) it becomes very clear that Sousuke is an extremely complex, realistically human, ever evolving character (albeit the evolution is slow and subtle). Out of all the characters I have watched in anime and or read about in manga, his characters depth and complexity is unparalleled by anyone other than perhaps Guts from the Berserk manga. For anyone who enjoyed watching FMP and wants to get their hands on some of these novels to see just what it is I have been talking about please send me a Private Message and I will send you link to where you can download some of the fan translated novels. They are only about 200 pages each and are a very quick and highly entertaining read. :::END DISCLAIMER::: History Lesson Sousuke... where, oh where, to start? I guess it would be appropriate to start at the very beginning with a History Lesson of the events that happen prior to the main FMP story. According to a document seen in the first season of the FMP anime Sousuke was born 7/7/1984, however this has not been confirmed and is still considered debatable. He is of Japanese decent, but has no clear nationality and his parents identities are unknown and they are assumed to be deceased. At the age of three Sousuke was the soul survivor of a crashed Japanese airliner and was rescued by Andrei Kalinin who, at the time, was the leader of a Soviet Spetnaz team. After being rescued Sousuke was put into the Soviet state child care system and later was placed in the KGB training program designed to create child soldiers. At approximately 8 years of age he was trained as an assassin and was sent to Afghanistan to assassinate General Majhid. He failed his mission and was instead adopted by the very man he was sent to kill who renamed him "Kashim". From then on he was trained in guerrilla warfare and fought as an insurgent against the invading Soviet forces. Early on in the war Sousuke was captured by Kalinin's forces and they were reunited for the first time. Soon after, Kalinin decided to desert the Soviet army and take Sousuke under his wing. He put Sousuke though specialized Spetnaz training from which Sousuke learned Japanese as well as some Russian. At approximately age 10 Sousuke began using captured and rebuilt Soviet AS's like the Rk-89,91, and 92 models to continue fighting against the ever growing Soviet presence in Afganistan. He quickly became proficient at piloting these weapon systems, but the Soviet forces eventually overwhelmed and crushed the last of the Afghani resistance forcing Sousuke to escape the country with Kalinin. Shortly after arriving in Cambodia Sousuke and Kalinin were once again seperated and for the next 5 years Sousuke lived on as a mercenary fighting in regional conflicts and most notably the "Fifth Middle East War". He built a solid reputation as a soldier during this period, gained a group of friends, and was eventually scouted by Melissa Mao to become a Mithril Operative. He is made part of the SRT and is trained to operate the M9 Gernsback as the team's pointman. End History Lesson Season one breakdown: Ok, lets get down to the character analysis. Sousuke, as you can tell from his history, is a character that comes from a world that is almost impossible for most of us to even imagine, let alone understand. Instead of box cars and legos, he played with AK's and live grenades. Instead of being read bed time stories, he was read field training manuals. Instead of loving parents he had drill sergeants and combat instructors. He was taught how to do nothing except to eat, sleep, and breathe war. I think it would be fair to say that he knew more about death at age 10 then most people know about life at age 20. The only things he was given to support him though the hell that was his childhood were order and routine. Order and routine are what honed his instincts and kept him alive in the most deadly environments. They are what kept him sane as he lost comrade after comrade, some of whom he claims died in his very arms. They are what made him into the perfect weapon, an unflinching machine, with "the eyes of a God damn Saint." But all of it, the order, the routine, the training, and especially his instincts... all of it becomes useless the minute he is placed in a normal social environment and he is completely and utterly powerless. This is why Sousuke is so absolutely hilarious to watch during the first season of FMP and Fumoffu. It is also why most viewers completely miss the slow, but monumental growth of his character throughout the first season of the anime. I partially blame Gonzo for their heavy handed handling of the source material which they milked dry of its high octane action, but ultimately failed to provide much else. Still they did manage to do a few things right in regards to characterization that helped to display the real Sousuke underneath the generalizations we've come to associate with his character. In the first season during his fight with Gauron in episode 7 Sousuke says something most peculiar and it has been forever been etched into my memory as some of the most awkward lines ever uttered by a protagonist. Chidori, trying to draw out more fighting spirit from Sousuke, cries out to him and asks him to imagine what will happen to her if he loses this fight. Kaname: "If you lose, they will rip off all my clothes, play around with my body, and kill me... You'd hate that right?" Sousuke: "Yeah..." Kaname: "Does that make you angry?" Sousuke: "I guess..." Most people would look over this and probably not think much of it. But honestly, who would ever respond so indifferently and emotionally detached towards mental imagery like that? A protagonist isn't supposed to sheepishly say "I guess" to something like that, he's supposed to declare with a loud and bold voice, "Hell yeah I'd be pissed!". However since he doesn't respond in such a manner, I think this comes to say a LOT about Sousuke's psychological state. Certainly he has seen many terribly gruesome things already in his life and by now he is surely desensitized to things like the ones she asks him to imagine, but for some reason this time it's different and for reasons unbeknownst to him he becomes upset. I believe his choice of words reflects this internal confusion and proves that he is beginning to change. Then immediately afterward Sousuke does something which gives my speculation some real tangible evidence. For a few moments he actually manages to ignore his instincts and internal programming when he chooses to follow Chidori's advice in the middle of the battle. He closes his eyes in front of his advancing enemy, he throws out the science and logic that tells him it's impossible, and he entrusts his life to someone who he's barely known for a month and is tantamount to a stranger. Of course it all pays off in the end, but this is something that really supports my claims. Then in the next arc we get to see something that makes his character become even more believably human. During the hostage exchange situation at the school Sousuke ignores both emotion and procedural protocol when he calmly and coolly selects the release order based on the which would provide the highest chance of everyone's survival. Even though disobeying the the standard protocols is out of the ordinary of Sousuke, I still feel that his behavior here demonstrates that he has lapsed back into the old habit of basing his strategies solely on his own instinct and real-time situational logic. In the final arc of the first anime season we see the results of this back and forth of this internal struggle begin to bloom. For the first time, we watch Sousuke fail to activate the LD in combat against Venom. This failure nearly gets both himself and Mellisa killed and also sows the seeds of self doubt in Sousuke's metal psyche. For the first time, he begins to see the Arbalest as a detestable and faulty weapon that has been unwillingly thrust upon him. It's here that we first catch a glimpse of the the tight wrappings of order, routine, logic, and instinct beginning to loosen and reveal his character's fragile inner core. He falls into a deep depression and when Kaname attempts to console him he just snaps and berates her. In the end he still manages to make things right and save the day, but the underlying problems go resolved and fester until they finally erupt in the second raid. (On a side note... You may have noticed that I have completely skipped over the "Wind Blows at Home" arc in my character analysis. I have two reasons for this: 1) because so many others here have already talked passionately about it and 2) Because it is actually an anime original arc. I find the fact that Gonzo does it's best work revealing Sousuke's original nature in what technically amount to 3 filler episodes incredibly ironic. None-the-less I am still grateful that they made them because otherwise, just about everyone here would have written Sousuke off as nothing more than a flat one dimensional character based on his overall poor representation in the first season.) Season two (TSR) breakdown: As I have stated before, it is in TSR that we for the first time get a chance to Sousuke's character evolution brought to the forefront. KyoAni handles everything in that regard masterfully. Hell, they even made appropriate and free flowing filler for the series that was able to accentuate Sousuke's growth. The Nanking underwater tunnel episodes were more than just entertaining fillers, they were created to reiterate Sousuke's inability to properly operate the Arbalest and his growing hatred of the machine. But enough about the filler, lets get into the meat of the story. Episode 6 is probably the single most important episode in all of the FMP anime to date. Sousuke voluntarily subjects himself to a social test by allowing Kaname and Kyoko to take him to a hair salon. His very comedic failure of this test is not what is important, but what is important is the fact that for the first time he has willingly put himself in an extremely uncomfortable and (at least in his eyes) potentially deadly situation without first receiving orders to do so. Then immediately afterwards he continues this display of irrational behavior when, for probably the first time in his life, he finds himself completely relaxed while defenseless in the care of another person. He even momentarily succumbs to fatigue and is able to fall asleep right in front of her. He doesn't fully understand why, but it becomes clear that he has become dependent on Chidori for his internal stability. This is why his character undergoes a complete and violent meltdown when his mission to guard her is aborted. But what is most confusing and what Sousuke can't figure out is why he has become like this. Never before has he been so affected by something that amount to nothing more than a mission objective. His character then proceeds to completely unravel. He is made to feel guilty after being berated by Tessa for questioning his reassignment. His pride is crushed when he is utterly defeated by Clouseau in an AS battle to protect the honor of his fallen commander. His conversation with AL makes him feel as if even the very machine responsible for his current situation is now mocking him. The final straw is laid on by Melissa after the car accident in Hong Kong and he finally breaks. Sousuke is frustrated, confused, and feels lost in his own mind. He contemplates abandoning his life completely and traveling to the nearest waring region that might purchase his skills as a mercenary. He finds comfort in the idea of engaging in mindless continuous combat and the thought that he could very well die at any given moment just to become another statistic on the battlefield. At least then he wouldn't have to worry think about her or anyone else who he had allowed to get to close to him. But he was not able to do that just yet which is why he wonders aimlessly for hours, tries drinking alcohol for the first time, and even walks strait into a trap he knows could very well end his life. In fact, it isn't until the last few moments before he empties an entire clip into Gauron's mangled form that Sousuke completes his regression into who he used to be 5 years ago. The vicious animal that Gauron had adored had completely returned. In the novels, after learning of Kaname's death, he literally says that he doesn't give a damn if Mao, Weber, and everyone ends up dead. Then when Kaname shows up a few moments later he appears to make a complete 180 degree turn is is almost immediately back to "normal". However, this would be an inaccurate description of how he has changed. Sousuke at this point has derailed from his previous life and created his own path using his own free will. In the final scenes where he talks down to his superiors he shows us that he will no longer be an idle lapdog following orders. He will continue to complete his assigned objectives not because of he is told to do so, but because it is his CHOICE to do so. He makes it clear that from now on he is the sole master of his own destiny and he will crush anyone and anything that tries to get in his way. Afterword To me at least, all of this proves just how deep and highly evolved the character of Sousuke Sagara is and also demonstrates how much further he can progress. Which if you read the continuing novels you will certainly get to see. As of the latest novel I've read, Burning One Man Force, Sousuke has evolved into a completely new character and his growth is truly amazing. He has actually been able to rid himself of his fragilities, while at the same time expanding upon his humanity. He no longer demonstrates uncertainty in any of his actions. He is so assertive at times he actually comes off as a bit aggressive. And now he exudes the aura of someone who could gain the total control of any situation that he might be thrown into. So anyhow... In conclusion, I hope that maybe I've been able to shine a little light on this amazing and unfortunately under appreciated character. If by writing this I have managed to sway even a single vote in the coming polls to yes, then I will consider my work here a success. I also hope that this may lead fans to read the novel series who have not already made an effort to do so. Sagara Sousuke He is neither says much, nor demands your admiration, but he certainly deserves it. |
8GaugeBrettSep 27, 2008 10:40 AM
  |
Anime-Destiny said: EmperorJ said: I shall be voting no as I will be on all other resurrected spotlights that I can vote on, although on my other standard it would be a yes as he would qualify as being in the top 25 of favorite characters. I don't get this "No" vote neither, EmperorJ. (-_-) Yeah, voting no just because something was resurrected just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Are you angry at the resurrection system or something? |
|
8GaugeBrett said: Anime-Destiny said: EmperorJ said: I shall be voting no as I will be on all other resurrected spotlights that I can vote on, although on my other standard it would be a yes as he would qualify as being in the top 25 of favorite characters. I don't get this "No" vote neither, EmperorJ. (-_-) Yeah, voting no just because something was resurrected just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Are you angry at the resurrection system or something? Is there something invalid about being fundamentally opposed to a cheap gimmick? |
| Whoa I can't believe 8GaugeBrett wrote all that on Sousuke, well even though a lot of it is from wikipedia but I'm more surprised at myself for reading it. ^_^ I also really like his character in Burning One Man Force, because it's the only time he's been in complete control of a situation that he's been thrust into. Fighting in the AS tournament, being arrested for winning too much and fighting a seemingly unbeatable opponent... all within his own calculations and not based on someones orders. ^_^ |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I'll give him a 9...I always found is obliviousness to obvious daily things hilarious (right from the get go with the condom reference in episode 1 of FMP! XD ). Other than that he's pretty well rounded and likable (i.e. not a douche bag) He became a little overdramatic at the TSR, but he redeemed himself in the end (hence the 9 and not 10).... |
EmperorJ said: 8GaugeBrett said: Anime-Destiny said: EmperorJ said: I shall be voting no as I will be on all other resurrected spotlights that I can vote on, although on my other standard it would be a yes as he would qualify as being in the top 25 of favorite characters. I don't get this "No" vote neither, EmperorJ. (-_-) Yeah, voting no just because something was resurrected just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Are you angry at the resurrection system or something? Is there something invalid about being fundamentally opposed to a cheap gimmick? What about the system is gimmicky? There are safeguards in place now to protect against illegitimate voting that we didn't have before. I see absolutely nothing wrong with giving these titles and characters another shot under the new rules. |
|
Archaeon said: If you remember the first series, there was an anime original story arc about Sousuke's home country called "The wind that blows at home". I'd be interested in your opinion on that particular part of the series as it shows Sousuke in a very different light compared to the rest of the series. That arc was what made me think he had potential as a character, an opinion that was cemented after watching TSR. The straightforward reply would be "it didn't change my views much", since I barely remember that arc from when I watched the series four years ago. However, I've downloaded it, and will re-watch it soon, since you say it influenced your opinion so strongly. |
ShaolinRibiero said: Archaeon said: If you remember the first series, there was an anime original story arc about Sousuke's home country called "The wind that blows at home". I'd be interested in your opinion on that particular part of the series as it shows Sousuke in a very different light compared to the rest of the series. That arc was what made me think he had potential as a character, an opinion that was cemented after watching TSR. The straightforward reply would be "it didn't change my views much", since I barely remember that arc from when I watched the series four years ago. However, I've downloaded it, and will re-watch it soon, since you say it influenced your opinion so strongly. I have mixed feeling about that arc. It has 2 major downsides for me: 1. It's 100% filler 2. It shows Gauron surviving yet another battle in which he should have died. The only saving grace of the 3 episode arc is that they did manage to salvage Sousuke's character a little bit after they had already screwed up his representation just about everywhere else thought the season. If you aren't going to read the novels the least you can do is at least watch The Second Raid. It's the only FMP anime season that even gets remotely close in capturing the depth of his character. |
|
| Isn't it Uruz 7? The units are all named after runes. |
Plate said: Isn't it Uruz 7? The units are all named after runes. Yes the code names they use are based on the runes. HOWEVER every single official and unofficial translation uses the spelling "Urzu" so we'll keep with that. |
|
8GaugeBrett said: ShaolinRibiero said: Archaeon said: If you remember the first series, there was an anime original story arc about Sousuke's home country called "The wind that blows at home". I'd be interested in your opinion on that particular part of the series as it shows Sousuke in a very different light compared to the rest of the series. That arc was what made me think he had potential as a character, an opinion that was cemented after watching TSR. The straightforward reply would be "it didn't change my views much", since I barely remember that arc from when I watched the series four years ago. However, I've downloaded it, and will re-watch it soon, since you say it influenced your opinion so strongly. I have mixed feeling about that arc. It has 2 major downsides for me: 1. It's 100% filler 2. It shows Gauron surviving yet another battle in which he should have died. The only saving grace of the 3 episode arc is that they did manage to salvage Sousuke's character a little bit after they had already screwed up his representation just about everywhere else thought the season. If you aren't going to read the novels the least you can do is at least watch The Second Raid. It's the only FMP anime season that even gets remotely close in capturing the depth of his character. Aye, that was my opinion of it too. That arc did make me consider Sousuke as more of a serious character for the first time though, as up to that point I regarded him in the same way I regarded Arnie in Kindergarten Cop. |
| What a day! What a lovely Day! |
Archaeon said: Aye, that was my opinion of it too. That arc did make me consider Sousuke as more of a serious character for the first time though, as up to that point I regarded him in the same way I regarded Arnie in Kindergarten Cop. Hey now, I was the one who originally threw that comparison out there, but in the Schwarz's defense, he never got beaten up by a teenage girl. Nor does he look like a frail, malnourished cancer survivor. |
| LMAO. Sorry to nab your comparison dude, but it was a damn good one so I thought I'd use it again :) |
| What a day! What a lovely Day! |
ShaolinRibiero said: Archaeon said: Aye, that was my opinion of it too. That arc did make me consider Sousuke as more of a serious character for the first time though, as up to that point I regarded him in the same way I regarded Arnie in Kindergarten Cop. Hey now, I was the one who originally threw that comparison out there, but in the Schwarz's defense, he never got beaten up by a teenage girl. Nor does he look like a frail, malnourished cancer survivor. Do what? lol when does Sousuke ever look frail or malnourished? Any time you ever see the guy with his shirt off he is ripped. |
|
| I'll vote yes for the character of the anime. I saw something about the manga, which I have'nt read yet, but I'm guessing personality is very similar. Sosuke Sagura is an enjoyable character. He is so dense and uptight, that functioning in the real world (outside of the military) which creates a lot of hilarious situations. He can turn around and be a great action character when focused on battle as well. |
8GaugeBrett said: EmperorJ said: 8GaugeBrett said: Anime-Destiny said: EmperorJ said: I shall be voting no as I will be on all other resurrected spotlights that I can vote on, although on my other standard it would be a yes as he would qualify as being in the top 25 of favorite characters. I don't get this "No" vote neither, EmperorJ. (-_-) Yeah, voting no just because something was resurrected just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Are you angry at the resurrection system or something? Is there something invalid about being fundamentally opposed to a cheap gimmick? What about the system is gimmicky? There are safeguards in place now to protect against illegitimate voting that we didn't have before. I see absolutely nothing wrong with giving these titles and characters another shot under the new rules. I agree. I don't think EmperorJ is voting based on a personal preference.... You're looking at it from someone who doesn't have an opinion, but thinks that revoting is unfair in some way. thinking that the revoting is messed up because the anime, manga, or show has had its chance. I just joined, and I'm glad that it was ressurected, because now I can vote on it. I think the resurection process is an amazing idea. Have there been resurected that have been changed to a "yes"? |
| This is the first group of things getting resurrected. All polls prior to a couple months ago were completely anonymous with no safeguards in place to check whether people had actually seen the anime/manga they were voting on, so this system was mostly designed to give all those older votes a fair shake with the new policies. |
8GaugeBrett said: Do what? lol when does Sousuke ever look frail or malnourished? Any time you ever see the guy with his shirt off he is ripped. I take it you've never been skinny then, heh. There's a difference between muscle mass/strength and muscle definition, dude. I looked as ripped as any anime character when I was 6' 4" and 160 pounds. Nowadays, I'm 6' 5" and about 200 pounds. My muscle mass and physical strength are both a lot greater, but I'm nowhere near as ripped. Sousuke is a 17 year old kid, and looks like he weighs a buck fifteen soaking wet. Believing that the guy can inflict serious physical injury to a large adult is almost as ridiculous as any anime that features a female who is a "great fighter". He'd be a bit easier to take seriously if his build was more similar to someone like a Duke Tougou at least, let alone a Guts or Kenshiro from "Hokuto No Ken". Special Forces types are scary-looking, buff motherfuckers with shaved heads, not long-haired, stick figure thin teenagers. Edit- Or better yet, his build should be like my idol, Yoshihiro Sexiyama;  |
YoungVagabondOct 1, 2008 5:09 AM
ShaolinRibiero said: He'd be a bit easier to take seriously if his build was more similar to someone like a Duke Tougou at least, let alone a Guts or Kenshiro from "Hokuto No Ken". Special Forces types are scary-looking, buff motherfuckers with shaved heads, not long-haired, stick figure thin teenagers. True, he'd be more impressive if he was built like a tank and covered in rippling muscles, but don't let that fool you in the slightest. Bruce Lee, for example, was never overly or overtly muscular, yet there's no doubt he could take on people much larger than himself. I used to work for a guy who was just over 5 feet tall, and he was skinny - in a sense (actually, wiry would be more accurate a term). He owned a company that dealt with stadium security, bodyguarding, personal security, etc, etc. There isn't enough money in the world that would make me take him on in a fight - not unless I was in a tank on another continent with an ocean in between us, and even then it could go either way. Oh, and age or gender have nothing to do with combat ability. I know a fair few fighters (and not competition ones either), who I'd think twice about crossing. Judging by appearances is the quickest way of getting hurt (and I have a ten inch scar on my left arm as a constant reminder of this being true). |
| What a day! What a lovely Day! |
Archaeon said: True, he'd be more impressive if he was built like a tank and covered in rippling muscles, but don't let that fool you in the slightest. Bruce Lee, for example, was never overly or overtly muscular, yet there's no doubt he could take on people much larger than himself. *Cue off-topic discussion... Heh, I'm hardly fooled. I'm a former amateur boxer, presently do submission grappling, and hang around different fighters all the time. Hell, my roommate is a former BJJ world champion in his belt class. One thing everyone has in common is considerable physical strength, at the very least for their height. As cool as it is to show otherwise in anime, you have to possess a certain degree of physical strength to be effective in a fight. I don't mind if shows have something as absurd as a frail teenager taking out huge adults, but it also makes me take the series far less seriously. Bruce Lee, off the top of my head, was like 5' 7" and 140-150 pounds. That's pretty built. Archaeon said: Oh, and age or gender have nothing to do with combat ability. I know a fair few fighters (and not competition ones either), who I'd think twice about crossing. Judging by appearances is the quickest way of getting hurt (and I have a ten inch scar on my left arm as a constant reminder of this being true). I normally respect your views on anything and everything an awful lot, but you're sadly out of your depth here, my friend. That roommate I told you about? He's pretty small too, about 140 pounds, yet he regularly destroys one of the top female ADCC competitors when they roll together. If you don't know what ADCC is, just think of this as my friend defeating one of the top female fighters in the world. And also, I've sparred and rolled a lot with women myself. Some of the boxers were even pros. There hasn't been a single one who was better than me, and I was just a run-of-the-mill amateur, nothing more. That's not to say there aren't women in this world who couldn't kick my ass. Lucia Rijker and Chris Cyborg probably could. But they're the absolute best in the world among women, while I'm just a third-rate amateur among men. I have an older friend who sparred with Laila Ali several years ago. Told me she sucked, and he would have taken her out in a real fight. Bottom line- Women can't fight at anywhere close to the level of men. Don't believe everything you see in anime! *End horribly off-topic discussion So yeah, about Sousuke....he's hard to take seriously.... |
YoungVagabondOct 1, 2008 6:02 AM
ShaolinRibiero said: Bottom line- Women can't fight at anywhere close to the level of men. Don't believe everything you see in anime! LMAO - you should meet some of the women in my hometown dude. I'm just going by my own experience on this because of the women I know, grew up with, or worked with over the years. Believe me, there are women here in my town who you never want to go up against, especially because they don't abide by any rules when they fight. |
| What a day! What a lovely Day! |
ShaolinRibiero said: 8GaugeBrett said: Do what? lol when does Sousuke ever look frail or malnourished? Any time you ever see the guy with his shirt off he is ripped. I take it you've never been skinny then, heh. There's a difference between muscle mass/strength and muscle definition, dude. I looked as ripped as any anime character when I was 6' 4" and 160 pounds. Nowadays, I'm 6' 5" and about 200 pounds. My muscle mass and physical strength are both a lot greater, but I'm nowhere near as ripped. Sousuke is a 17 year old kid, and looks like he weighs a buck fifteen soaking wet. Believing that the guy can inflict serious physical injury to a large adult is almost as ridiculous as any anime that features a female who is a "great fighter". He'd be a bit easier to take seriously if his build was more similar to someone like a Duke Tougou at least, let alone a Guts or Kenshiro from "Hokuto No Ken". Special Forces types are scary-looking, buff motherfuckers with shaved heads, not long-haired, stick figure thin teenagers. Ok according the the FMP character guide he is 5 foot 8 1/2 inches tall and weighs 145.2 pounds. That sounds very healthy and certainly a far cry from the "buck fifteen" you'd suggest. Also, when does Sousuke regularly engage himself in extensive hand to hand combat with anyone who appears physically stronger than him? In the show he is almost ALWAYS is using some sort of projectile weapon or on the inside of an armslave when he is engaged in combat. Last time I checked you don't need bulging muscles to operate either effectively. And further more, what does physical strength have anything to do with a character's actual worth in this sort of discussion? P.S. Have you started watching TSR yet? I'd like to see some criticism on his actual character and not physical appearance. |
|
Archaeon said: LMAO - you should meet some of the women in my hometown dude. I'm just going by my own experience on this because of the women I know, grew up with, or worked with over the years. Believe me, there are women here in my town who you never want to go up against, especially because they don't abide by any rules when they fight. No trust needed here. Talk to any bouncer, and they'll tell you the same thing; women are incredibly vicious in a fight, far moreso than men. They'll try to kill their opponent, not just hurt them. And yeah, with weapons, a cripple can defeat the best fighter in the world. No argument there. *Hopefully an end to the off-topic madness... 8GaugeBrett said: Ok according the the FMP character guide he is 5 foot 8 1/2 inches tall and weighs 145.2 pounds. That sounds very healthy and certainly a far cry from the "buck fifteen" you'd suggest. Alright, you got my original point; he looks frail and weak. It makes suspension of disbelief more difficult in the action scenes. 8GaugeBrett said: Also, when does Sousuke regularly engage himself in extensive hand to hand combat with anyone who appears physically stronger than him? Try the VERY FIRST fight in the original Fullmetal Panic! Off the top of my head, Episode 4. 8GaugeBrett said: And further more, what does physical strength have anything to do with a character's actual worth in this sort of discussion? P.S. Have you started watching TSR yet? I'd like to see some criticism on his actual character and not physical appearance. To use an even more exaggerated example, how seriously would you take a 4 year old girl in an anime series who single-handedly beats up a dozen male adults at once? When the series is trying so desperately to make us believe the guy is an action badass, and yet, everything from his personality to his physical appearance suggests otherwise, you don't have a good character. |
ShaolinRibiero said: 8GaugeBrett said: Ok according the the FMP character guide he is 5 foot 8 1/2 inches tall and weighs 145.2 pounds. That sounds very healthy and certainly a far cry from the "buck fifteen" you'd suggest. Alright, you got my original point; he looks frail and weak. It makes suspension of disbelief more difficult in the action scenes. See that's the thing, for some reason you see him as frail and weak, I for one don't see it in the least. Maybe, I should get my eyes checked or something because to me he looks healthy and exactly as he is described. ShaolinRibiero said: 8GaugeBrett said: Also, when does Sousuke regularly engage himself in extensive hand to hand combat with anyone who appears physically stronger than him? Try the VERY FIRST fight in the original Fullmetal Panic! Off the top of my head, Episode 4. He uses technique, not brute force to beat the guy and again I have to stress the word REGULARLY because this is not the usual type of fight you see Sousuke engaged in. ShaolinRibiero said: 8GaugeBrett said: And further more, what does physical strength have anything to do with a character's actual worth in this sort of discussion? To use an even more exaggerated example, how seriously would you take a 4 year old girl in an anime series who single-handedly beats up a dozen male adults at once? When the series is trying so desperately to make us believe the guy is an action badass, and yet, everything from his personality to his physical appearance suggests otherwise, you don't have a good character. Again, If you bothered to read ANY of my posts from before I have said time and time again that his personality was horribly misrepresented in the first anime season because Gonzo decided to mix canon story with bits and pieces from the comedic spin-off stories that were used later to create "fumoffu". This is why I keep saying that you should to watch TSR if you want to have an idea who Sousuke really is. As for the continued argument that action badasses need to physically look the part I am calling bullshit. Just off the top of my head, here is a short list of action characters that aren't "built" but are still considered by many to be "badass". James Bond, Indiana Jones, Jason Borne, El Mariachi (Desperado), Neo, Ellen Ripley, The Bride (Kill Bill), V, Ethan Hunt. In fact I am pretty sure there are just as many if not MORE action characters that aren't physically built like your Arnolds, Stalones, and Vin Diesel's. But now we are just getting further and further off topic so once you've finished watching TSR or reading the novels then come back to me and give some actual criticism on something besides his physical appearance. |
|
8GaugeBrett said: See that's the thing, for some reason you see him as frail and weak, I for one don't see it in the least. Maybe, I should get my eyes checked or something because to me he looks healthy and exactly as he is described. Maybe you should. Chidori looks like she has thirty pounds on the guy EASILY. Whatever; I personally think his character design is frail-looking, and you don't. There's nothing to argue there. That's a difference in perception, not a debatable point. 8GaugeBrett said: Again, If you bothered to read ANY of my posts from before I have said time and time again that his personality was horribly misrepresented in the first anime season because Gonzo decided to mix canon story with bits and pieces from the comedic spin-off stories that were used later to create "fumoffu". This is why I keep saying that you should to watch TSR if you want to have an idea who Sousuke really is. No, I read your posts, and I'll watch TSR when I have time. However, I'm pretty sure his character's physical design didn't change from one season until the next, did it? 8GaugeBrett said: As for the continued argument that action badasses need to physically look the part I am calling bullshit. Now who's not reading? Here's what I wrote; "I don't mind if shows have something as absurd as a frail teenager taking out huge adults, but it also makes me take the series far less seriously." It's the difference between a story that is more entertainment and fantasy and one that attempts to be more serious. It's the reason why something like a six year old girl with giant raccoon eyes fighting in a mecha would be totally out of place in a series like "Perfect Blue", for example, but would be perfectly acceptable in any number of other shows. 8GaugeBrett said: Just off the top of my head, here is a short list of action characters that aren't "built" but are still considered by many to be "badass". James Bond, Indiana Jones, Jason Borne, El Mariachi (Desperado), Neo, Ellen Ripley, The Bride (Kill Bill), V, Ethan Hunt. James Bond, Indiana Jones, Jason Borne, and El Mariachi (who strictly uses guns) are all horrible examples, since their builds are pretty strong, and perfectly believable, despite them all starring in films that are often very tongue-in-cheek. Neo and Ripley are both from science-fiction/fantasy worlds, with any number of bizarre and unusual circumstances, so normal considerations don't really apply. Ditto for V. Kill Bill is a completely satirical, humorous homage to 70's/80's Asian cinema and drive-in movies. It's SUPPOSED to be absurd and ridiculous, not serious. Anyways, I'll watch TSR, and then I'll likely have a whole new batch of criticism for you to disagree with, heh. |
| This is why I love this club :) |
| What a day! What a lovely Day! |
| The ONLY thing I have disagreed with you about is whether or not Sousuke looks frail. You think that he does, so-be-it, now give me some actual arguments against his character that go more than sink deep and don't criticize the fact that his character design is an homage to figures like Heero Yui and Kenshin. Hell, I even agree with you that his personality in the first season is hodgepodge mishmash that doesn't make for a realistic portrayal of who he is supposed to be. So once you've finished watching TSR please by all means come back and give me some valid criticism of his character and we can hash this out. I am sure you will find plenty of stuff not to like about him in TSR. He has the same character design and he still behaves ridiculously at times, but his personality is far more consistent and true to the source material this time around. |
|
Archaeon said: If you remember the first series, there was an anime original story arc about Sousuke's home country called "The wind that blows at home". I'd be interested in your opinion on that particular part of the series as it shows Sousuke in a very different light compared to the rest of the series. That arc was what made me think he had potential as a character, an opinion that was cemented after watching TSR. I went ahead and re-watched those episodes, but am confused as to how this was supposed to change my perception of him. There was about a minute total of completely generic flashbacks in that story arc, none of which altered my opinion of him as a standard, silent Heero Yui type in any way. Aside from the completely hilarious stock footage of an eight year old shooting a submachine gun with zero kickback, there was absolutely nothing worthwhile there. I'm real curious about what you liked about those episodes though, and how they changed your views on him. |
YoungVagabondOct 1, 2008 9:48 PM
| Without Chidori, Sousuke would be a very boring and fairly unappealing character. 6 just because as a duet Chidori and Sousuke somehow work well together. |
 |
Anime-Destiny said: good point. I really do need to watch TSR but even if he's just awesomeness during TSR I still doubt it will raise the score. Its hard for me to believe that one out of three seasons he's amazing and worthy enough to be nominated. Its not that I believe he's a bad character during Fumoffu and FMP, its just he seems to be a character best defined by the people who are around him. He's the straight man in the gag. He's just not above a 6 in my opinion.manasteel88 said: Without Chidori, Sousuke would be a very boring and fairly unappealing character. 6 just because as a duet Chidori and Sousuke somehow work well together. Manasteel88, I somehow notice on your anime list that you haven't watch Full Metal Panic:The Second Raid yet. If you watch TSR, I think your opinion on Sagara Sousuke as a character may actually change in this one especially since he will be on his own through most of the anime. If you finish watching TSR, then you should check out the FMP! novels (A Dancing Merry Christmas, Continuing on my Own, and Burning One Man Force). You will be impressed with Sagara Sousuke's character in them also. :) |
| |
manasteel88 said: Anime-Destiny said: good point. I really do need to watch TSR but even if he's just awesomeness during TSR I still doubt it will raise the score. Its hard for me to believe that one out of three seasons he's amazing and worthy enough to be nominated. Its not that I believe he's a bad character during Fumoffu and FMP, its just he seems to be a character best defined by the people who are around him. He's the straight man in the gag. He's just not above a 6 in my opinion.manasteel88 said: Without Chidori, Sousuke would be a very boring and fairly unappealing character. 6 just because as a duet Chidori and Sousuke somehow work well together. Manasteel88, I somehow notice on your anime list that you haven't watch Full Metal Panic:The Second Raid yet. If you watch TSR, I think your opinion on Sagara Sousuke as a character may actually change in this one especially since he will be on his own through most of the anime. If you finish watching TSR, then you should check out the FMP! novels (A Dancing Merry Christmas, Continuing on my Own, and Burning One Man Force). You will be impressed with Sagara Sousuke's character in them also. :) Brief run down of my huge post. 1. The first season of FMP Sousuke's character gets screwed over by Gonzo and their overall bad representation of the series. 2. Fumoffu was just side stories written to be nothing more than comedic anecdotes. They really only exist to bounce situations off of his character archetype and therefore don't really help to make his case. 3. TSR is the only season in the series that really lets you see the depth that exists within his character. 4. In the Novels right now you would hardly even be able to recognize Sousuke as a character he has simply evolved that much. So anyway long story short, if you want to know WHY Sousuke was nominated AND resurrected with such passion either watch TSR and get a taste of who he really is or read the Novels. |
|
| he is rather tricky to rate.... I find his personality shallow at times (but that's also part of what makes him... well ...him)... he doesn't know how to express himself well (or rather, he doesn't understand other people's feeling for him)... and he still doesn't get them at the end of TSR... 8/10 |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Just finished watching TSR today, and my whole opinion of sousuke has changed now. Just thought I'd point that out.The final scene of TSR really just shows how much he's grown and struggled with who he is. I didn't vote "yes" for sagara the first time, but after watching TSR I can't not vote "yes" for him. The first season of FMP doesn't do anything for sousuke's character. |
| Yay! Another convert to the Church of Sousuke all thanks to the New Testament (aka The Second Raid) |
|
8GaugeBrett said: *raises hand* I'm here too!Yay! Another convert to the Church of Sousuke all thanks to the New Testament (aka The Second Raid) I really liked him after watching the first series, but after watching TSR, well, I just thought he's simply an amazing character. From what I've heard of the novels, he's even better. Dont know if I'll read them or just hope and wait for a sequel, though (I know that they probably rock, it's just that I'm not really a reader-kind of guy) By the way, GaugeBrett, loved your wall of text on Sousuke early in the thread =D |
| Ah, I'd wish they'd work on adapting a third season of this already. I'm in no rush to get the light novels. Not enough interest, I assume. |
 |
SLiK said: Ah, I'd wish they'd work on adapting a third season of this already. I'm in no rush to get the light novels. Not enough interest, I assume. Same. TSR left it wide open for the next season. As for Sousuke, I voted yes, based almost entirely on Fumoffu and TSR. In fumoffu he is one of the most likeable and hilarious characters I've ever seen, and in TSR he develops quite a lot and shows the other, more serious side of himself. I wont go into detail, but in both fumoffu and TSR his character is pulled of really well. |
More topics from this board
Sticky: » The End of Critics and ConnoisseursHiroM_ - Dec 31, 2022 |
31 |
by danz
»»
Nov 10, 2023 1:08 AM |
|
» Challenge You Decide: Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion (Anime) (1/1)HiroM_ - Dec 3, 2022 |
44 |
by 25saix
»»
Dec 30, 2022 3:10 PM |
|
» You Decide: Golden Kamuy 2nd Season (Anime) (12/4)HiroM_ - Dec 2, 2022 |
42 |
by 25saix
»»
Dec 30, 2022 3:10 PM |
|
» Resurrected You Decide: Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica (Anime) (12/4)HiroM_ - Dec 2, 2022 |
47 |
by 25saix
»»
Dec 30, 2022 3:09 PM |
|
» Blue N Rescue Mission: Eikoku Koi Monogatari Emma (Anime) (12/4)HiroM_ - Dec 3, 2022 |
24 |
by Dramaddict
»»
Dec 28, 2022 6:02 PM |