Do you agree?
Saito-sama said: jahrakal2009 said: All three have much higher ratings than LOGH ever had. All three are superior to LOGH in terms of animation, graphics and other technicalities. Furthermore, guess which series were awarded the TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards? That's right, CG and TTGL. All of these are arguments that are founded in when the show aired. Animation technology has greatly improved from when LoGH came out to when the other three did. and of course LoGH won't be considered for TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards. Of which LOGH did not even get any recognition/nomination when it aired. Even in home base. It never dominated the ratings when it aired, it never dominated the sales chart, etc, etc. The list goes on. Usually time can be a valid argument, but come on, when an anime isn't a prominent one when it aired proves that in some ways, it is inferior to those that have. |
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jahrakal2009 said: Saito-sama said: jahrakal2009 said: All three have much higher ratings than LOGH ever had. All three are superior to LOGH in terms of animation, graphics and other technicalities. Furthermore, guess which series were awarded the TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards? That's right, CG and TTGL. All of these are arguments that are founded in when the show aired. Animation technology has greatly improved from when LoGH came out to when the other three did. and of course LoGH won't be considered for TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards. Of which LOGH did not even get any recognition/nomination when it aired. Even in home base. It never dominated the ratings when it aired, it never dominated the sales chart, etc, etc. The list goes on. Usually time can be a valid argument, but come on, when an anime isn't a prominent one when it aired proves that in some ways, it is inferior to those that have. LMAO. Sorry but that's a terrible argument. In a world where shows like Queen's Blade get second seasons and dvds for the likes Junjo Romantica 2 sell quite well you can't exactly argue that popularity equates quality now can you? Just because something is not so simplistic that a massive fan base can find it accessible does not mean it is in any way inferior. Seriously man. Why do you have such a hate-on for a series that you've seen almost nothing of? Give it a decent chance before condemning it. |
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Kaioshin_Sama said: Well, I found it to be all flash and no substance, and considering how far it fell from the first season, I think a one is deserved. I do expect a proper plot from a series in that genre, but CGr2 did not deliver at all.Granted it's far from brilliance of the kind I would ascribe to LOGH and it does play fast and loose with more plot developments then your average show (especially the finale arc), but it's even further from the nonsensical plot hole fest with card board cut out characters that people like Baman try to make it out as. Giving Code Geass R2 the 1 makes no more sense to me then giving LOGH the 1. This topic flow is kind of proof as well of the above since we appear to have stopped addressing and scrutinizing Clannad and switched to beating on Code Geass in comparison to LOGH and in general with an added dose of retro-style NGE bashing as well. What's funnier though is that it's the moderator that is the one dragging everything off topic and into a fanboy vs. hater showdown. Lesson is don't bring Code Geass in a forum topic because people can't handle themselves when asked to discuss it. There needs to be a corrolary for it. Keep your pants on, this is a discussion, it's what forums are for, if you want a brainless +1 y/n thread, then make one. A topic flows naturally, it's not like we just suddenly started discussing something entirely different, and just because the current flow has brought us off topic, you are saying we should just stop or make a new thread for it? I don't see any reason for that.The next part of the post is off topic, so look away now if you must. LucySky said: Indeed. As anyone should know, popularity has nothing to do with quality, see how popular Bleach and Naruto are, it's the same with everything. LotGH requires a lot more from it's viewers, it's not just a simple, brainless shounen, which is why it's market is smaller. The only thing the other series jahrakal mentions has done better is to appeal to the masses with cheap peripheral, emotional appeals, and there is nothing fantastic about that. It's a cheap trick to sell, nothing more.jahrakal2009 said: Saito-sama said: jahrakal2009 said: All three have much higher ratings than LOGH ever had. All three are superior to LOGH in terms of animation, graphics and other technicalities. Furthermore, guess which series were awarded the TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards? That's right, CG and TTGL. All of these are arguments that are founded in when the show aired. Animation technology has greatly improved from when LoGH came out to when the other three did. and of course LoGH won't be considered for TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards. Of which LOGH did not even get any recognition/nomination when it aired. Even in home base. It never dominated the ratings when it aired, it never dominated the sales chart, etc, etc. The list goes on. Usually time can be a valid argument, but come on, when an anime isn't a prominent one when it aired proves that in some ways, it is inferior to those that have. LMAO. Sorry but that's a terrible argument. In a world where shows like Queen's Blade get second seasons and dvds for the likes Junjo Romantica 2 sell quite well you can't exactly argue that popularity equates quality now can you? Just because something is not so simplistic that a massive fan base can find it accessible does not mean it is in any way inferior. Seriously man. Why do you have such a hate-on for a series that you've seen almost nothing of? Give it a decent chance before condemning it. jahrakal2009 said: There is no objective evidence in your post. DVD sales are obviously higher for recent series that are written and made especially to sell, and when it comes to the artwork, your argument still holds no water. CGr2 for example, was riddled with animation flaws even though it had all the newest technology to play with. And again, awards are just as biased by popularity as ratings.But as to LOGH, let's be honest. Quite a few people make it out to be the most brilliant thing in anime, but taking into account objective evidence, at least 7 of the top 10 anime are far more deserving than LOGH of the top spot. I'm not saying LOGH deserves the 132 1s, but let's take this into account. CG, TTGL, Clannad all have shown domination of DVD sales. All three have much higher ratings than LOGH ever had. All three are superior to LOGH in terms of animation, graphics and other technicalities. Furthermore, guess which series were awarded the TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards? That's right, CG and TTGL. When most fans praise LotGH, it is the deep and reflective story that is praised the most, and while you can argue newer series have better animation, LotGH's story is on an entirely different level compared to CG, TTGL and Clannad, and no matter what arguments you put against that will be of no value, as long as you have not seen the series. As Lucysky did, I recommend you see the series properly and try to rid yourself of your biases before condemning it, anything less would be a waste of time. |
Baman said: Well, I found it to be all flash and no substance, and considering how far it fell from the first season, I think a one is deserved. I do expect a proper plot from a series in that genre, but CGr2 did not deliver at all. Still not really getting the reasoning here, but then again that is par for the course in this topic. It looks to me more like you just wanted to make a statement about the series in regard to it's immense popularity and that's the purpose behind it all. This feeling is all the more exacerbated by the fact that it's the only 1 you have on your list. Anyway CG was never a typical mecha series anyway so I don't know what a "proper plot" means. Anyway it seems that while we agree on LOGH, that our buffers for anime ratings are way out of sync. You seem like one of those watchers where it's very easy for any given issue to drop the show several points in an instant, whereas I prefer to be a little more lenient and don't expect every show to be an LOGH calibre anime. |
PeacingOutJun 23, 2009 11:15 PM
| More off topicness. |
Baman said: Read the thread a bit more carefully, and you will see I was not the one who brought up CG at all, I started to berate it's quality when jahrakal claimed it was better than LotGH. The reason I gave it a one was because I saw it as failing completely with what it was supposed to do. It seemed to me that it was trying to build up a political war drama story more than a standard mecha one, yet it failed horrendously and it felt to me like they even did not care about the plot at all as long as it was full of flashy melodrama and cliffhangers, which is why I loathed it so. The score was further affected by the fact that I felt it had shown some promise in the first season yet only managed to ruin it. As for my ratings, I tend to keep 5 as the average, and I guess I am simply not so easily impressed as many others who give top scores left and right. Your assumption on my score giving is rather faulty, I don't drop the score for every little thing, if I did I would likely not have a single top score on my list, but if a series have a poor overall presentation and a number of smaller flaws, chances are it will end up under 5. And, if I expected every series to be LoGH (or any other top score series) calibre, I would not even bother watching things like K-ON, Clannad or Toradora. I would likely not bother with any currently airing anime. Regardless, giving CG R2 a 1 is far too harsh even for your standards. LOGH might be good but as I have stated earlier, it has done very little in making an impact on the anime watching community the way CG and Clannad among others have. Baman said: Well, I found it to be all flash and no substance, and considering how far it fell from the first season, I think a one is deserved. I do expect a proper plot from a series in that genre, but CGr2 did not deliver at all.Keep your pants on, this is a discussion, it's what forums are for, if you want a brainless +1 y/n thread, then make one. A topic flows naturally, it's not like we just suddenly started discussing something entirely different, and just because the current flow has brought us off topic, you are saying we should just stop or make a new thread for it? I don't see any reason for that. I do agree with you that this is merely a discussion, so trying to steer clear of any discussion or writing what any poster has typed down just seems over the top and ridiculous as that's what forums are for. CGR2 did in fact deliver. The production values and suspense was top notch, even brilliant. The character conflicts was so much more intense than what I have seen from LOGH that really, there is no contest. The same with Clannad, the dramatic moments were deeply moving of a kind I have yet to see in LOGH. LucySky said: LMAO. Sorry but that's a terrible argument. In a world where shows like Queen's Blade get second seasons and dvds for the likes Junjo Romantica 2 sell quite well you can't exactly argue that popularity equates quality now can you? Just because something is not so simplistic that a massive fan base can find it accessible does not mean it is in any way inferior. Seriously man. Why do you have such a hate-on for a series that you've seen almost nothing of? Give it a decent chance before condemning it. In no way or form am I condemning LOGH. All I am stating is from what I have seen, it is no where the grandiose spectacle of human fiction that so many seem to tout it as. Based on actual DVD sales and official awards, there is no doubt that CG and Clannad proove to be better and outrightly so. Queesn's Blade, while certainly a more entertaining watch than LOGH, definitely did not win the awards nor did it have the ratings and sales to be considered a good comparison with the two other shows. Indeed. As anyone should know, popularity has nothing to do with quality, see how popular Bleach and Naruto are, it's the same with everything. LotGH requires a lot more from it's viewers, it's not just a simple, brainless shounen, which is why it's market is smaller. The only thing the other series jahrakal mentions has done better is to appeal to the masses with cheap peripheral, emotional appeals, and there is nothing fantastic about that. It's a cheap trick to sell, nothing more. Would you call Titanic a sham? Or Slumdog Millionaire cheap? Or maybe even the Sixth Sense. The answer is no, because these shows have proven to a large demographic and target audience that they are the movies to beat. The same with CG and LOGH. They are both proven to be widely successful and loved, and no random votings and ratings from trolls can take that away. There is no objective evidence in your post. DVD sales are obviously higher for recent series that are written and made especially to sell, and when it comes to the artwork, your argument still holds no water. CGr2 for example, was riddled with animation flaws even though it had all the newest technology to play with. And again, awards are just as biased by popularity as ratings. When most fans praise LotGH, it is the deep and reflective story that is praised the most, and while you can argue newer series have better animation, LotGH's story is on an entirely different level compared to CG, TTGL and Clannad, and no matter what arguments you put against that will be of no value, as long as you have not seen the series. As Lucysky did, I recommend you see the series properly and try to rid yourself of your biases before condemning it, anything less would be a waste of time. But still, this is praise from a limited and targeted niche. It has little to do with the real actual results. If we look back at the most successful and impactful anime of the 80s-90s, we would find that anime like Macross, Cowboy Bebop, and NGE have had the greatest impact and influence on this subculture. If LOGH was really comparable to both Clannad and CG, it would indeed have a similar performance, dominating sales, gaining early recognition, etc. As such, it all but remains a masterpiece to the few people who have completed the whole series and loved it for that. By the way, haters can start trolling both series down, as I can easily see from the anime stats, that the same person has been doing this for a while now. But the fact is, the series are just too good for whoever that bitter individual is. (Not referring to you Baman, just felt like calling the troll out and seeing what more he can do). |
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| HURR DURRR OFFTOPIC DEBATE |
BamanJun 25, 2009 5:30 AM
| Hell no, i think it's nice and it should be highly rated =/ - Peace |
Baman said: HURR DURRR OFFTOPIC DEBATE Massive ownage there. When will Jahrakal learn, lol? |
| Fear the finger of death |
| I think it's overrated here in MAL, but it's pretty nice as well. Being overrated =/= bad and being underrated =/= good. Of course it's obvious, but seeing how negative the word "overrated" seems to be, it's not so obvious to some. |
| Eo tempore, cum tibi occuri, Mihi vita laeta fuit, Cum autem te nusquam conspexi, Eo tempore mortem cognovi |
jahrakal2009 said: Saito-sama said: jahrakal2009 said: All three have much higher ratings than LOGH ever had. All three are superior to LOGH in terms of animation, graphics and other technicalities. Furthermore, guess which series were awarded the TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards? That's right, CG and TTGL. All of these are arguments that are founded in when the show aired. Animation technology has greatly improved from when LoGH came out to when the other three did. and of course LoGH won't be considered for TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards. Of which LOGH did not even get any recognition/nomination when it aired. Even in home base. It never dominated the ratings when it aired, it never dominated the sales chart, etc, etc. The list goes on. Usually time can be a valid argument, but come on, when an anime isn't a prominent one when it aired proves that in some ways, it is inferior to those that have. LoGH never did air on TV, it was always an OVA series. It might have been on TV a few times after the initial release, but it was never a huge show. Shows like these aren't powerhouses of ratings, they're just good shows. Basing a show or movie on how it did in the box office is just flat out retarded. Sorry if I'm offending you for this, but that's not how criticism or construction criticism works. Look at the Oscars, the blockbusters almost never win, instead it's usually artsy shows. The idea that that's good because it's popular is completely false. Sorry to ad hominem, but "HURR DURR IT'S NOT POPULAR SO IT MUST BE BAD" is not an argument. Shows like Kaiba didn't have a lot of people watching it, but it did gain artistic recognition, so how do you handle it in that case? Anyway, LoGH went for on 9 years, so at what point are you supposed to put it in the contention for competing with other shows anyway, in 1988 or in 1997? meonlyme775 said: But as to LOGH, let's be honest. Quite a few people make it out to be the most brilliant thing in anime, but taking into account objective evidence, at least 7 of the top 10 anime are far more deserving than LOGH of the top spot. I'm not saying LOGH deserves the 132 1s, but let's take this into account. CG, TTGL, Clannad all have shown domination of DVD sales. All three have much higher ratings than LOGH ever had. All three are superior to LOGH in terms of animation, graphics and other technicalities. Furthermore, guess which series were awarded the TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards? That's right, CG and TTGL. Again, does the show need 22,000 key frames of animation to make it good? I think a lot of the argument here is from people who haven't seen, nor refuse to see LoGH. Yes it has dated animation, but it doesn't need it because the story and characters supercede everything else. Hell, if anything its got pretty good animation for a show that relies on nothing but VHS or Laserdisque sales to keep it going, and I love how they keep everything pretty much stuck in the 1988 art style. The show isn't made for mass consumption, it had a very huge otaku following in Japan, but they're not the vocal ones. Remember, in video games, graphics are not everything, are they. |
BluMeinoJun 27, 2009 2:20 AM
| .... What topic is this? judging from the last 2 page, I'm sure this is a CG/TTGL/LOGH/NGE forum. right? If I never knew about MAL and my friend showed me this page, I will most definitely laugh at my friend for trying to convince me that this is a clannad discussion... ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!! THIS IS A CLANNAD DISCUSSION!!! BRING THIS FIGHT TO YOUR OWN FORUM!! CLANNAD AFTER STORY GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH ALL THIS!!! |
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AirStyles said: Which was why I started putting spoiler tags on it. .... What topic is this? judging from the last 2 page, I'm sure this is a CG/TTGL/LOGH/NGE forum. right? If I never knew about MAL and my friend showed me this page, I will most definitely laugh at my friend for trying to convince me that this is a clannad discussion... ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!! THIS IS A CLANNAD DISCUSSION!!! BRING THIS FIGHT TO YOUR OWN FORUM!! CLANNAD AFTER STORY GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH ALL THIS!!! But I don't see lots of people coming in here to discuss Clannad anyways, so what difference does it make? |
BluMeino said: All of these are arguments that are founded in when the show aired. Animation technology has greatly improved from when LoGH came out to when the other three did. and of course LoGH won't be considered for TV series of the year at the Tokyo Animation Awards. Well, good point. But that is not the point I was trying to carry. I was comparing LOGH to its time period with anime during that particular era; such as Bebop, Kenshin, Macross and NGE. In this case, we can look out reviews and VHS sales, and the degree of impact the anime had at that time. LoGH never did air on TV, it was always an OVA series. It might have been on TV a few times after the initial release, but it was never a huge show. Shows like these aren't powerhouses of ratings, they're just good shows. Basing a show or movie on how it did in the box office is just flat out retarded. Sorry if I'm offending you for this, but that's not how criticism or construction criticism works. Look at the Oscars, the blockbusters almost never win, instead it's usually artsy shows. The idea that that's good because it's popular is completely false. Yes, it is not always true; but in the case of anime, popular usually has an underlying reason why it is popular, as sales and ratings are attributed to how much the fans enjoyed a particular series. Also, the Tokyo Animation Awards takes this into account further and tries to objectively list the best anime of a particular year. Sorry to ad hominem, but "HURR DURR IT'S NOT POPULAR SO IT MUST BE BAD" is not an argument. Shows like Kaiba didn't have a lot of people watching it, but it did gain artistic recognition, so how do you handle it in that case? Anyway, LoGH went for on 9 years, so at what point are you supposed to put it in the contention for competing with other shows anyway, in 1988 or in 1997? Kaiba was good; but was it better than CG and Clannad? It's hard to tell; the only thing wold perhaps be the DVD sales, ratings, reviews and votes from Non-trolls, measured as a proportion of the number of people watching the series. Again, does the show need 22,000 key frames of animation to make it good? I think a lot of the argument here is from people who haven't seen, nor refuse to see LoGH. Yes it has dated animation, but it doesn't need it because the story and characters supercede everything else. Hell, if anything its got pretty good animation for a show that relies on nothing but VHS or Laserdisque sales to keep it going, and I love how they keep everything pretty much stuck in the 1988 art style. The show isn't made for mass consumption, it had a very huge otaku following in Japan, but they're not the vocal ones. Remember, in video games, graphics are not everything, are they. No, it doesn't. But there comes a time when the graphics and music, etc would play a part when people would enjoy a series better. Ultimately, the story and , comments, performanc a particular anime had would be the most telling feature. I am prepared to accept the fact that in the next era, 10 years from now a ton of anime would easily surpass CG and Clannad and reshape the top anime once again; but I would choose not to be hung up by the past and admit the new series would be superior to the ones I enjoy now. Simple as that. Baman said: HURR DURRR OFFTOPIC DEBATE Making impact is immaterial. I must have posted a hundred times here about how making impact and gaining popularity is usually done with cheap peripheral appeals, and LoGH does not even try to use these, but aim to impress level headed and analytical viewers with great writing and characters. Argument sunk. But as you have not seen LoGH, there is no point in you trying to argue here. I have seen them all, and I was much more moved by certain scenes in LoGH. The character drama is not as intense as in Cg, thankfully, it is aiming to be more realistic than flashy and melodramatic. And yet, the most famous and successful anime of LOGH's era were pretty much Cowboy Bebop, Rurouni Kenshin, Macross, and NGE. These anime pretty much defined the 80s and 90s. Even Slam Dunk, Inuyasha, Ranma and Sailor Moon, Pokemon, Dragon Ball had far more success and world-wide recognition than LOGH which is a shame really, since Clannad, CG and LOGH pretty much dominated the past few decades, although the 2000-10 period was in fact the greatest time period for anime. So far. LOGH was not even mentioned during this period and has only been mentioned these past two or so years. How many times must I tell you that DVD sales and popularity has nothing to do with quality? And let us not forget that these new series have all been recently aired and recently gathered fanbases, while LoGh started over twenty years ago when DVDs were not even in existence. Comparing like this is pointless, I am afraid. How about VHS sales and ratings then? How about magazines and word of mouth at least? As for condemnation, I would say that is precisely what you are doing, berating a series that you have barely even scratched the surface of. You have absolutely no grounds on which to build your opinions. Not really, saying that LOGH is no better than Clannad, CG and TTGl is not condemnation. Saying that LOGH is pure shit and the worse thing to ever grace the big screens without a valid reason is condemnation. |
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Spoiler tags added for you, AirStyles, enjoy. |
BamanJun 27, 2009 9:02 AM
| People do this weird thing where they vote for what they like. WHo woulda thunk it |
     My pokemon bring all the boys to the yard... |
| Going a bit off topic is ok, but this is taking it too far. There's a thread in Anime Discussion about overrated anime iirc so please take it elsewhere. It's time for this thread to go back on topic. |
| When preference is being discussed about, it turns to this - unending conflict ^^ I don't have any objections with Clannad being in the top...my reason is "It's what I think". |
| Yes, I like Clannad. I don't really think nor care if it is overrated, even though I'm a shonen fan. |
| Even the moderator comes here to talk about something off topic :( Baman, what do you think if people come to your favorite anime's topic to talk or compliment the other ones? Think for yourself and stop already. :( |
| "Life is not fair. Get used to it" -- Bill Gates |
bahoaday said: Even the moderator comes here to talk about something off topic :( Baman, what do you think if people come to your favorite anime's topic to talk or compliment the other ones? Think for yourself and stop already. :( >:( |
bahoaday said: Haha. Why would I care if a discussion in some thread naturally veered a bit off track? If there is no conflictinc opinions, there is no discussion, and discussions are the point of a forum, and when I say i think Clannad AS is ridiculously overrated and a lot of other series are much better, I'm doing exactly what I am supposed to do in this thread.Even the moderator comes here to talk about something off topic :( Baman, what do you think if people come to your favorite anime's topic to talk or compliment the other ones? Think for yourself and stop already. :( But fair enough, Boursk thinks the last string of conversation has been off topic, and he's the forum mod after all. If jahrakal or someone else feels like challenging my last post, feel free to do so in the Overrated anime thread in anime discussions or make a new one for that matter. |
Baman said: bahoaday said: Haha. Why would I care if a discussion in some thread naturally veered a bit off track? If there is no conflictinc opinions, there is no discussion, and discussions are the point of a forum, and when I say i think Clannad AS is ridiculously overrated and a lot of other series are much better, I'm doing exactly what I am supposed to do in this thread.Even the moderator comes here to talk about something off topic :( Baman, what do you think if people come to your favorite anime's topic to talk or compliment the other ones? Think for yourself and stop already. :( But fair enough, Boursk thinks the last string of conversation has been off topic, and he's the forum mod after all. If jahrakal or someone else feels like challenging my last post, feel free to do so in the Overrated anime thread in anime discussions or make a new one for that matter. Yes, I agree with you. I wouldn't mind challenging your contentions there, since Boursk suggested we move to another topic altogether. Of course, I don't think Clannad AS is all that overrated due to the brilliance and quick thinking of basing the anime around family. Although this huge theme is mentioned in a lot of anime, Clannad is one of the few anime to actually embrace this theme and take it to another level. |
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| I definitely believe Clannad is far from overrated, that's my opinion. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Clannad was just a good school life comedy anime but it didn't bring much more slice of life theme like Clannad ~After Story~ did in my opinion. So I agree, Clannad is also overrated for me. |
| hmmm. for me this clannad needs a remake so we can watch again another master piece that all............ |
| <img src="http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss317/VampiressMIharu/userbar_01_hq_.jpg" border="0" /> im a philippino painter |
| Saying clannad is overrated is wasting time. Why care about it? |
| Are we talking about the first or second season? Yes, there is a huge difference. Clannad - Not overrated Clannad AS - Hugely overrated. It's still brilliant, but no way could it ever live up to that kind of hype level. |
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Excelsior said: Although I have only seen 5 episodes of the second season, I saw the entire first season and the other Key/KyoAni works, so I already know that even if I finished AS, I'd still think it's overrated. Clannad is filled with shallow, moe cliches (like all other KyoAni anime), although Tomoya is well-fleshed out, especially for being the male protagonist who usually has no personality. As far as the first season goes, it had bad pacing. And I heard of the apparently bad ending of the second season, but I can't talk much about it since I never saw it. But worst of all, all Key/KyoAni shows are some of the most dragged-on, melodramatic and emotionally manipulative shows I have ever seen. How many times are they gonna use that incurable magic disease plot device? I counted 6 times so far. Keep watching dude... You can't stop till at least episode 19. T_T As a fellow anime fan, I really hope that you'll get to at least episode 19. I really hope so. sundeath said: hmmm. for me this clannad needs a remake so we can watch again another master piece that all............ I have to disagree, I like it the way it is, and really think they shouldn't risk messing it up. Clannad series have been the best anime series I've ever watched. Haylias said: Are we talking about the first or second season? Yes, there is a huge difference. Clannad - Not overrated Clannad AS - Hugely overrated. It's still brilliant, but no way could it ever live up to that kind of hype level. I disagree on Clannad AS being hugely overrated. I have yet to watch anything like it. |
AirStylesAug 16, 2009 9:34 PM
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sundeath said: hmmm. for me this clannad needs a remake so we can watch again another master piece that all............ True, in the form of OVAs though. Although I also agree with AirStyles, it might turn out to be a risk like most of the remakes, DragonBall, cough, cough. |
| Fear the finger of death |
Excelsior said: Although I have only seen 5 episodes of the second season, I saw the entire first season and the other Key/KyoAni works, so I already know that even if I finished AS, I'd still think it's overrated. Clannad is filled with shallow, moe cliches (like all other KyoAni anime), although Tomoya is well-fleshed out, especially for being the male protagonist who usually has no personality. As far as the first season goes, it had bad pacing. And I heard of the apparently bad ending of the second season, but I can't talk much about it since I never saw it. But worst of all, all Key/KyoAni shows are some of the most dragged-on, melodramatic and emotionally manipulative shows I have ever seen. How many times are they gonna use that incurable magic disease plot device? I counted 6 times so far. But this is so much more than your average moe flick. There isn't a single anime like this, or brilliant enough to focus fire on Clannad's core theme. Well, there are some, but did they delve into that much detail and cover so many aspects? Haylias said: Are we talking about the first or second season? Yes, there is a huge difference. Clannad - Not overrated Clannad AS - Hugely overrated. It's still brilliant, but no way could it ever live up to that kind of hype level. I disagree on Clannad AS being hugely overrated. I have yet to watch anything like it. Seconded. |
| Fear the finger of death |
| That's exactly what I mean. People hype it up as "BEST PIECE OF MEDIA, NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT, 11/10 WOULD WATCH AGAIN" it sets people up for a fall, and it encourages alot more hate towards Clannad from people who wouldn't really care if it wasn't for all the hype. The more you know~ |
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| Okie dokies. |
| Fear the finger of death |
| Clannad ~AS~ is one of the most relevant anime i've seen. For the record I agree with dexterous and Airstyles. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
usasoldiern said: Clannad ~AS~ is one of the most relevant anime i've seen. For the record I agree with dexterous and Airstyles. That's what I thought too, hence why my high opinion of it. Of course, there will always be people who won't like it, but it still is awesome no doubt. |
| Fear the finger of death |
Dexterous said: usasoldiern said: Clannad ~AS~ is one of the most relevant anime i've seen. For the record I agree with dexterous and Airstyles. That's what I thought too, hence why my high opinion of it. Of course, there will always be people who won't like it, but it still is awesome no doubt. Yeah, that's true. Not everyone likes what others do. But, I think it's ridiculous to call this series "moeblob" or something like that. Clannad is far more than that, I never even actually really considered it moe. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
Excelsior said: Although I have only seen 5 episodes of the second season, I saw the entire first season and the other Key/KyoAni works, so I already know that even if I finished AS, I'd still think it's overrated. Clannad is filled with shallow, moe cliches (like all other KyoAni anime), although Tomoya is well-fleshed out, especially for being the male protagonist who usually has no personality. As far as the first season goes, it had bad pacing. And I heard of the apparently bad ending of the second season, but I can't talk much about it since I never saw it. But worst of all, all Key/KyoAni shows are some of the most dragged-on, melodramatic and emotionally manipulative shows I have ever seen. How many times are they gonna use that incurable magic disease plot device? I counted 6 times so far. Even now I still have to agree. The problem I see with Clannad is that it tries to balance the "Uguu~" factor with serious melodrama, but does so to such an extreme on either side. The moe moments are so sugary sweet and cutesy that it comes off as pandering, whereas the dramatic moments tend to redefine the word "overwrought" in how hamfisted they are. People will point to how real this series is and how brilliant it's portrayal of it's core themes are, but I just see it as you do, emotionally manipulating to the point of being blatant obvious, mixed with the moe stuff and a high budget that makes for the equivalent of a blockbuster, but lacks in any real substance. It indeed also doesn't help that Key has been recycling this formula since Kanon either such that it's lost a lot of impact. Despite what I said, I still have to give credit to the 4 or so episodes that dealt with Tomoya and Ushio that actually did portray a decent morality tale about family and responsibilities of a parent. For just a moment it lost all of that Uguu~ and overwroughtness and felt like it was portraying something close to what one could call poignant. Of course then it had to go and pretty much corrupt and distort the relevance of these episodes message and themes by going for one last overwrought emotional bit with the ending. As a result I can't really say that Clannad After Story does a very good job with it's whole family thing as it does with being cutesy and absurdly melodramatic. Then again this is a Japanese show and I can completely understand why this is popular and seen as special by a lot of people even if I have different standards for what I would define as a masterpiece. Actually to me none of these Kyoani shows that have been hyped up massively over the years or labelled as "masterpieces" could be considered anything other than overrated unless the standard concerns how moe you can possibly make a show while still having it be just barely recognizable as a legitimate working story (K-On is just on the cusp). At that point they win the contest hands down. |
PeacingOutAug 17, 2009 3:37 AM
| The fact is that majority who have seen CLANNAD AS thinks it's a masterpiece and those who doesn't are sinking in the sea of fans trying to make a voice for themselves,only to be ignored or have their voices drowned in the sea of fanboy shouts :D No matter how much you say "Oh... It's overrated" it doesn't change this single fact, it's all gonna stay as merely your own opinion. Let's face it, in RL or even on the Internet the majority will most likely become the fact. Oh btw... I'm in the majority and so far CLANNAD AS is still the best series I've seen. I still yet to find a replacement for it. |
alpha69Aug 26, 2009 6:48 PM
alpha69 said: Oh btw... I'm in the majority and so far CLANNAD AS is still the best series I've seen. I still yet to find a replacement for it. I think AS had one of the best arcs imaginable, that being the After arc... well, up until the last three episodes of it at least. UGH. Though this makes me wonder, are all these people giving this a 10 just that smitten with that particular length of story? I mean, I agree! It's fantastic! But are all you lovers of the series so hopelessly infatuated with it that you're ignoring the big picture? |
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| people will like what they wanna like. |
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Kaioshin_Sama said: Excelsior said: Although I have only seen 5 episodes of the second season, I saw the entire first season and the other Key/KyoAni works, so I already know that even if I finished AS, I'd still think it's overrated. Clannad is filled with shallow, moe cliches (like all other KyoAni anime), although Tomoya is well-fleshed out, especially for being the male protagonist who usually has no personality. As far as the first season goes, it had bad pacing. And I heard of the apparently bad ending of the second season, but I can't talk much about it since I never saw it. But worst of all, all Key/KyoAni shows are some of the most dragged-on, melodramatic and emotionally manipulative shows I have ever seen. How many times are they gonna use that incurable magic disease plot device? I counted 6 times so far. Even now I still have to agree. The problem I see with Clannad is that it tries to balance the "Uguu~" factor with serious melodrama, but does so to such an extreme on either side. The moe moments are so sugary sweet and cutesy that it comes off as pandering, whereas the dramatic moments tend to redefine the word "overwrought" in how hamfisted they are. People will point to how real this series is and how brilliant it's portrayal of it's core themes are, but I just see it as you do, emotionally manipulating to the point of being blatant obvious, mixed with the moe stuff and a high budget that makes for the equivalent of a blockbuster, but lacks in any real substance. It indeed also doesn't help that Key has been recycling this formula since Kanon either such that it's lost a lot of impact. Despite what I said, I still have to give credit to the 4 or so episodes that dealt with Tomoya and Ushio that actually did portray a decent morality tale about family and responsibilities of a parent. For just a moment it lost all of that Uguu~ and overwroughtness and felt like it was portraying something close to what one could call poignant. Of course then it had to go and pretty much corrupt and distort the relevance of these episodes message and themes by going for one last overwrought emotional bit with the ending. As a result I can't really say that Clannad After Story does a very good job with it's whole family thing as it does with being cutesy and absurdly melodramatic. Then again this is a Japanese show and I can completely understand why this is popular and seen as special by a lot of people even if I have different standards for what I would define as a masterpiece. Actually to me none of these Kyoani shows that have been hyped up massively over the years or labelled as "masterpieces" could be considered anything other than overrated unless the standard concerns how moe you can possibly make a show while still having it be just barely recognizable as a legitimate working story (K-On is just on the cusp). At that point they win the contest hands down. Just out of curiosity.... Just which part of Clannad ever reminded you of Uguu...? I'm pretty sure none of them have catchphrases. And in my opinion, Clannad After Story. |
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| not over rated to me, an to those sayin they hated after story because of the lack of comedy, i always took the story as a whole as a romantic tragedy, with comedy elements to lighten the mood, not the other way around dont get me wrong, i laughed my ass off each time a tomoyo combo came down an other moments of the like, but for me, moments like that are just there to show you that its not all depressing, that they do have happy times an moments, which draws you in, unlike elfen lied which seemed to do the opposite, an keep pushing you away, but because clannad kept pulling you in, it made those sad moments in s1, and the really depressingly sad ones in after story, hit the audience that much more, or atleast thats how i see it |
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