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| Amazing episode. Can someone explain Sunako's backstory please? I didn't really understand it when they brought it up a few episodes back. |
ShadowGilgamesh said: i'd say this ep proves the humans are worse than the Shiki, at least THEY didn't kill any of their own. Even when Natsuno got his ass kicked by Tatsumi they didn't this is true, but Tatsumi did do a lot of threatening, and even if he didnt go through with it (because they bent to his will) he most certainly would have. on another note, i like Mr. Kirishiki. Seishin sucks. |
| This anime gets better and BETTER. First I thought it was 6-7/10 but now it's a 10/10 I LOOVE IT. I'm so looking forward for the last two episodes!! :(( |
| I'm very excited to see how this "ends"... |
iMon said: Humans will die if they don't kill Shiki. Think on a larger scale, if no one retaliated against Shiki-s right now, they would conquer entire cities and ultimately lead to the eradication of the human race. Humans are living beings, while Shikis aren't. if That alone invalidates your argument. I said humans have a choice, I never said humans choose not to fight, which would be the only one that would validate your point. As I have said in previous threads, this is a black and grey morality issue. The humans are grey, the shiki are black. |
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| Rotation? Seriously? If you're going to feed a handful of shiki on person, that person is going to lose at least a gallon of blood. When people donate blood they lose about a pint of blood. This pint takes about 4-6 weeks to replenish. There are 8 pints in a gallon It would take 32-48 weeks to replenish a gallon, and honestly, losing that much blood is going to cause major issues with the immune system, since a large number of white blood cells will be lost. TLDR, a rotation system is infeasible. |
Iilia said: Ritsuko's still not drinking blood, and she even managed to get Tohru to let that woman go. She seriously deserves some respect for what she's going through. I wonder how their deaths will come about? Those two shiki I'm definitely going to feel sorry for. Definitely agree with this. |
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| I feel evil that I don't feel sorry for the little girl (damn I'm so bad at remembering names). Like someone else here said her drama is all an excuse. Ritsuko deserves more respect for enduring her suffering. And that scary big guy is scary. He killed his own son without hesitation. Wow. |
| i feel lame for bawling my eyes out. ;[ |
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GarLogan78 said: Well she was just a little girl before she became a Shiki which mean her life as being a Shiki is more longer than being a human. So her emotion toward Human will be lesser compare to her emotion toward Shiki. And she is like the mother of Shiki.Amazing episode. Can someone explain Sunako's backstory please? I didn't really understand it when they brought it up a few episodes back. Superluccix said: LOL this guy is serious.Its easy to tell who is right and who is wrong. The Shiki are 120% guilty. The Shiki had 2 options. 1. They could have attempted to coexist with humans. Tell them their identity, and try to reason with them. Do I think the humans would say yes? Hell no they wouldnt. But maybe if the Shiki showed what would happen if a human got bitten.....how long it took to recover.....then they would have a better chance at reasoning. Since they didnt even attempt to do so however, they are at fault 2. And this is the biggest reason. They never tried to do rotation. The Shiki could have simply bitten 1 human 1 night, then another human the next night, and repeat the process until the first person recovered. The Villagers at the time when the Kirishiki's came to the village outnumbered the Shiki by the multiples. Now Im not expert in anemia and how long it takes to recover, but surely that was an option. No humans would have died in the process. Due to them not even planning on how to use rotation, they are at fault 1. Wouldn't your answer, as a human, be "Lets just get rid of them and the problem solved?" or "Why don't we start an experience on them?" 2. Didn't you even know what was the first reason they are coming to this village? Do Shiki even need to beg to survive? Do Human need to say sorry to chickens, cows and pigs before we eat them? Just because Humans killed Humans in the past does not mean its alright for Shiki to kill humans. that is just one view from Seishiro as a human and that was the reason why he didn't see Shiki as a different life form from human therefore he joins them.Now granted, isnt that contradicting what I was talking about earlier with since the Shiki have a set number of Shiki and the humans will simply increase? Yea it means more Shiki are coming....however the rate at which Shiki could appear and the rate humans could appear are incredibly different. Shiki have a CHANCE to rise up. So they obviously are falling behind. LOL where do you want to keep Shiki anyway? And doesn't that mean Shiki's food is also increase?Honestly, you are basically took human side and said we human are superior being, nothing more. The only reason you want to co-exist with Shiki is that you don't want to die when you are about to die. And once you became Shiki your ideal will changed from "Human are superior" to "Shiki are superior". |
 "A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
| .... Shiki just gets more and more powerful. This is the first anime that has had me on the edge of my seat every week and always anticipating the next episode, because it only gets better and better. Ritsuko has been one of my favorite characters from the beginning, and I've loved the relationship between her and Tohru for just as long. Seeing her go, seeing them cuddle up together and silently confess their feelings for each other was nothing short of tragic and beautiful. She helped Tohru, even just a little, stop hating himself so much. Because even if she died again, he saved her. He saved her from a fate that would be more hellish than anything she could have experienced. Picturing them if they could have both lived breaks my heart, and the way they animated the scene emphasized it. The monochrome picture of him holding her body was gorgeous. The Shiki and Human sidings is an interesting discussion. Because it's hard to decide who to side with. If the Shiki completely feed off the humans- what will they do once they eventually run out? As more and more Shikis rise and they need more blood, once they've used up their resources, they'll all starve to death. It's not like humans and animals where they have a wide variety of choices and the delicate balance of the food chain. The only thing to prey on Shiki are humans, which is also their food source. I can't see co-existence as a possibility, personally. For the food chain and population, there needs to be a limiting factor. But there is none. Just look at how quickly the Shiki were able to nearly eliminate the entire village, regardless of how small it was. Seishiro is an exception to all of it, because his father was a killer. He also lost his wife, and since then his viewpoint has become warped and, as Sunako said, he can no longer make rational decision. THERE'S MY LITTLE RAMBLE. |
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| Awesome episode ... ironically both sides are the same , they kill in order to live ... the exploding eyes were nicely done ... |
alwaysbored said: Awesome episode ... ironically both sides are the same , they kill in order to live ... the exploding eyes were nicely done ... Again, they are not the same. If you say that humans kill shiki in order to survive, it's like saying that all Americans kill Muslim insurgents all of the time because there are Americans killing Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan. As I have said, the humans were given a choice, they can join in the killing or they would not. Not killing does not AUTOMATICALLY lead to death, unlike in the case of the shiki. |
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| Epic episode. The blood just keeps pouring and the body count just stacks up, along with each side's pride for their own species. Wonder what will happen with the last 2 episodes. If this ends well, this will go in my favorites list. I'm just gonna stay quietl in the discussion here, mostly because I also feel neutral with this war. That, and I'm too tired to discuss this. Plus it's really interesting to read the discussion here. The thread has become a lot more serious than previous episode discussions("Kyaa! NatsunoxTohru") |
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| I can't wait to watch the last episode. >3< |
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| quite messy bloodbath ;D |
| lightness vs. darkness Nani mo kamo wo hoshigatteita Mayoeru mono no chikai Mada miru sekai o tsukuridasu koto Kuchi hateteiku |
Avalie said: ^ You can't apply that analogy here. You're comparing humans with humans. This is the case between shikis and humans. They DO kill each other to survive in here. If the humans do nothing about their village, eventually the shiki population will overpower the humans'. Shikis in this story are comparable to real life humans. Think about it. Humans threaten the continuing existence of wildlife animals, because humans are on top of the foodchain. As such, shikis threaten the existence of humans, as they are on top of the foodchain. Killing is necessary. As I have already said, another IF. Your points come tumbling down without it. IN the Shiki's case they have to kill to survive, the humans have a choice! Not all kills shiki, BUT there are those who does kill shiki! Why is it after 3 posts of mine saying exactly the same thing people still keep on responding to it at exactly the same (wrong) way? Shikis are not comparable to real-life humans because of their inherent nature. Humans does threaten wildlife, YET it's also humans that are capable of protecting them. The shiki cannot claim as such. Not even Natsuno. He specifically told Dr. Ozaki about that. "We'll kill all the shiki in the village...and then you'll have to kill me." In a way the shiki are "lower" than humans because their hunger is barely controllable. |
entropy13Dec 18, 2010 9:23 AM
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entropy13 said: Human have a choice NOT to kill Shiki? So you purposely separated human into 2 different categories? And then you claim that Human are still able to survive without killing Shiki while keeping them back in one categories? LOL what a smart move you have there. You are just saying even if I don't have to do the dirty job someone will still get the job done. Which make this kind of human is even lower than Shiki.As I have already said, another IF. Your points come tumbling down without it. IN the Shiki's case they have to kill to survive, the humans have a choice! Not all kills shiki, BUT there are those who does kill shiki! Why is it after 3 posts of mine saying exactly the same thing people still keep on responding to it at exactly the same (wrong) way? Shikis are not comparable to real-life humans because of their inherent nature. Humans does threaten wildlife, YET it's also humans that are capable of protecting them. The shiki cannot claim as such. Not even Natsuno. He specifically told Dr. Ozaki about that. "We'll kill all the shiki in the village...and then you'll have to kill me." Shiki are not comparable to real-life humans? Just what the heck are you trying to say here? Ok, next. Human are capable to protect wildlife but Shiki can't? Well, let me ask you one question. Do Human from the Rock Age protect wildlife or even know that they have to do something about it? I mean you are talking like Shiki are a bunch of idiot creature. |
"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
Jaymie said: In the end, will either side truly win? This is a lose-lose situation. The humans are exactly the same as the Shiki. They killed on massive scales. Why? Because they wanted to survive. I disagree. Without the shiki, the humans have to kill no one to survive. While the Shiki's lives depend on murder. And then later, when humans dwindle, Shiki will turn to killing eachother so they can have the few remaining humans to survive. And then, when every human is gone, they all go crazy and die of starvation. I think there is an obvious "win" situation here. |
| ITT people trying to place Shiki above humans, and humans above Shiki. Both are doing what they have to do to survive, no one is better than the other. Trying to argue this is a waste of time. |
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| epic episode is epic. Sooooo much blood, it pleased my ginga :D too bad there are only 2 more episodes, and it will all be over. still this is one of the best shows this year had to offer |
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| This was amazing. Reading people saying the same things over and over is funny. The humans don't have to kill to survive! Bla bla bla. If you look at the Shiki, as you know, not human, they're doing the same thing to humans that humans do to animals. |
| Rooting for Ozaki here. The Shiki are still the bad guys in my eyes, no matter how Sunako tries to word it. The nurse is clearly showing restraint and strength can overcome the Shiki's hunger, Sunako was weak and gave in countless times. The villagers are going a little crazy though. I can't imagine how this will end. |
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| @Superluccix: Have you ever donated your blood? If yes, then think about that you have to do it all the time because this is foods for Shiki that you are talking about. Can you do that? Honestly, you are underestimated human's mind way too far. Human never ever want someone else to be at the top of them thats why they wage war with other human just for the sake of something like this. Therefore letting Shiki having their blood everyday is not a choice to begin with. Since Shiki has such special ability, before Shiki even able reveal themselves to the public they may have find themselves in the lab instead. |
"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
| Unfortunately there are no positives to rising. Most of the risen apart from Megumi and a select few (Werewolves) hate themselves, especially Tohru. Even Sunako seems to hate herself but is too afraid to die. Think about it, if Sunako resisted hunger like the nurse is doing and died, none of this would have happened and nobody would have died. Having to live in darkness and fear the day isn't a particularly fun way to live I'm sure. She didn't have any choice to rise but she sure as hell had the choice to prevent herself from suffering for so long. Problem is obvious though, she's a child. As long as they don't go ahead and make Sunako the hero sort of like Lucy in Elfen Lied was made the hero even though she was clearly in the wrong, I'll be happy with the ending. |
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| I don't want to understand Seishin's story. And, what's with Seishirou? He's been with them yet he's still human and wish himself to be a shiki? Why didn't Sunako or his wife or Tatsumi bit him for food or be a shiki and one of them? Did I miss the part about his story relating to that? I believe he said his father is a shiki (or did I interpret it wrongly)? If his father's a shiki, there's a possibility that he'll rise too. If that will be the case, that won't be problem to Sunako and company or so, I think? |
Lieila said: Nope his father is not a Shiki but he described his father and himself as a man hunter(human killing other human). Which he believe that Shiki are doing the same thing as him therefore he consider Shiki are not different than him. And he was the first human to accept Sunako as Shiki.I don't want to understand Seishin's story. And, what's with Seishirou? He's been with them yet he's still human and wish himself to be a shiki? Why didn't Sunako or his wife or Tatsumi bit him for food or be a shiki and one of them? Did I miss the part about his story relating to that? I believe he said his father is a shiki (or did I interpret it wrongly)? If his father's a shiki, there's a possibility that he'll rise too. If that will be the case, that won't be problem to Sunako and company or so, I think? |
"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie." |
| blood, blood, more blood. i can't say that i never expected that from a show involving vampires, but there's just so much. haha. with brutality included. :)) sunako near the end part of the episode makes the villagers sound like the bad guys. she could've at least acknowledged the fact that she's being so selfish (she chooses to "survive" - that is, feed on and kill humans - and even after realizing that there's something wrong with it, she continues to kill people anyway. i mean, ritsuko was able to stop herself...[btw, did she die?] she didn't choose to turn into a shiki, but she can choose the way she's going to live right?) the villagers are also just trying to survive too.... well, anyway, two episodes left. i wonder what's gonna happen... :) i need moar natsuno! |
| Sunako ;_; Not as good as the previous episode. It was pretty brutal though. The villagers are going insane. |
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tsubasalover said: Tohru and the green hair nurse is in love?? At least he is. It was sweet. So far this show was better in the beginning. |
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| this show always keeps me guessing. the first few episodes i couldn't figure out out who the protagonist was since was bitten and disappeared but then when the dr fooled the lady it just got even more amazing! i wonder whats next. |
| - Marissa Chan! |
| It's been awhile since I've seen an eyeball burst. Total bloodbath. Yeah, it seems inevitable that the villagers will win. The only questions are how many humans (and which ones) will be taken out before it's over and also whether a few of the Shiki (and which ones) will manage to escape the village. |
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entropy13 said: Avalie said: ^ You can't apply that analogy here. You're comparing humans with humans. This is the case between shikis and humans. They DO kill each other to survive in here. If the humans do nothing about their village, eventually the shiki population will overpower the humans'. Shikis in this story are comparable to real life humans. Think about it. Humans threaten the continuing existence of wildlife animals, because humans are on top of the foodchain. As such, shikis threaten the existence of humans, as they are on top of the foodchain. Killing is necessary. As I have already said, another IF. Your points come tumbling down without it. IN the Shiki's case they have to kill to survive, the humans have a choice! Not all kills shiki, BUT there are those who does kill shiki! Why is it after 3 posts of mine saying exactly the same thing people still keep on responding to it at exactly the same (wrong) way? Shikis are not comparable to real-life humans because of their inherent nature. Humans does threaten wildlife, YET it's also humans that are capable of protecting them. The shiki cannot claim as such. Not even Natsuno. He specifically told Dr. Ozaki about that. "We'll kill all the shiki in the village...and then you'll have to kill me." In a way the shiki are "lower" than humans because their hunger is barely controllable. Well, actually, it's because you are wrong all the time. If the people (choose to) kill the shiki, they'll survive. If they don't, they won't die immediatly, or in a day, or in a week, but ultimately, the human race will be exterminated by the growing shiki-popilation. Shiki, btw, also can choose, as we saw in Ritsukos case. "I won't kill her or anyone else, and that's that", but if every shiki would do that, they'll just die. Basicaly, it comes down to this: do something - live, do nothing - die, for both sides. What's the problem in getting that? Gigant squids and sperm whales also (choose to) battle against each other to survive, or should one side do nothing and just die? And btw, shiki are totally natural. While they don't exist in our world, in the anime they are not created by scientists or came from outer space, but are a form of life nature created. AND, urgh, as if your or my hunger are controlable? If I'm hungry I'll eat a dead animal or plant. Or die (again, "choose to do nothing = death"). It just happens that shiki just eat human blood, like anteaters just eat ants (and termites). |
CrochaxDec 20, 2010 7:32 AM
| I feel kind of stupid for not recognizing the symbolism in the second opening. About how when we see Megumi walking along in it, symbolizes the shiki's attack against the humans. And when we see Chizuru walking she symbolizes the human's attack against the Shiki. And then of course Chizuru releasing the flower petals or whatever, means that she started the war. |
| Also in the opening, you see three Shiki's standing up in the shadows, one of them is obviously Nao, the other one Masao (XD) and the third one is... Natsuno's mom? Anyone else notice this? |
Siva said: Lieila said: Nope his father is not a Shiki but he described his father and himself as a man hunter(human killing other human). Which he believe that Shiki are doing the same thing as him therefore he consider Shiki are not different than him. And he was the first human to accept Sunako as Shiki.I don't want to understand Seishin's story. And, what's with Seishirou? He's been with them yet he's still human and wish himself to be a shiki? Why didn't Sunako or his wife or Tatsumi bit him for food or be a shiki and one of them? Did I miss the part about his story relating to that? I believe he said his father is a shiki (or did I interpret it wrongly)? If his father's a shiki, there's a possibility that he'll rise too. If that will be the case, that won't be problem to Sunako and company or so, I think? Ah I see. I remember now his dialogue at the rooftop. I was distracted by Gackt's voice. I am not a fan of him though but I was trying to listen to the quality of his voice. Someone made it a point somewhere here in the forum, so I was merely curious. ^_^ |
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