| We might not think about it but doing something on your own that a professional could do hurts the economy. It does so in the same way that only cooking your meals hurts the economy in that there is no need for restaurants, fast food places, or delivery service. Know how to fix your toilet? Now a plumber is out of a job. Know how to fix your computer? Now an IT guy is out of a job. Know how to drive? Now a taxicab driver is out of a job. Being self-sufficient is the worst thing ever for an economy. You are supposed to hire a maid to clean your room. |
Mao said: If you have to shit, shit! If you have to fart, fart!  |
| And nobody is truly "self-sufficient" because nothing can be manufactured nor distributed without the fossil fuel-powered global supply chains. |
| Jordan Peterson was secretly destroying capitalism this whole time. |
 |
Reply to Spunkert
Jordan Peterson was secretly destroying capitalism this whole time.
| @Spunkert how exactly is he doing that btw? |
Reply to DesuMaiden
@Spunkert how exactly is he doing that btw?
| @DesuMaiden One of his most famous quotes is "Clean your room" or some boring shit like that. |
|
vasipi4946 said: Know how to fix your toilet? Now a plumber is out of a job. Know how to fix your computer? Now an IT guy is out of a job. Know how to drive? Now a taxicab driver is out of a job. Know how to get yourself off? Now who is out of a job? |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| maids are really cheap here you know, almost everyone has them and they are wonderful people |
│Resign? 🕊➤Yes / No│  │Resign? Yes / ⚔➤No│ |
| The next step is going to be eat bugs and live in a pod, right? |
Black★Rock Shooter (TV) is beyond its time arthouse fantasy/psychological drama/psychological horror/action. Should you watch it? See my review.  ⁺  ⁺  ⁼  |
| If the economy is this fragile, maybe it needs to perish. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
vasipi4946 said: You are supposed to hire a maid to clean your room. You can also leave her unemployed and hire her as a prostitute later. Think smart! |
| Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
| Jordan Peterson isn't worth listening to. He is totally just a sophist aka a swindler. |
| Writing a thread is destroying economy. Writing in English is destroying economy. Writing is destroying economy. You are supposed to hire someone to write a transcription of your words, someone to rephrase it into an essay/thread and someone to translate it into English. |
| Amen, brotha. Cats deserve only the best pets, but no one will hire me, a purrofessional cat better. They'd rather they furry darlings experience their own untrained, mediocre pets. Some people are just stupid. |
 |
vasipi4946 said: We might not think about it but doing something on your own that a professional could do hurts the economy. It does so in the same way that only cooking your meals hurts the economy in that there is no need for restaurants, fast food places, or delivery service. Know how to fix your toilet? Now a plumber is out of a job. Know how to fix your computer? Now an IT guy is out of a job. Know how to drive? Now a taxicab driver is out of a job. Being self-sufficient is the worst thing ever for an economy. You are supposed to hire a maid to clean your room. Instead of using that money to pay a cleaner/plumber etc. I can use that saved money to invest. That investment will not only raise capital for some firm but it is likely to yield a return. Thus the overall boost to the economy is greater When it comes to spending/not spending you need to consider the opportunity costs of a given action. To get most bang for your buck (in terms of economy) money needs to be directed towards some sort of income generating asset. Spending on non-income generating goods/services only yields a one of bonus but if you spend something that has an income then there is the outlay and the return that helps the economy. |
| The entire global economy is just a scam. And Near Term Human Extinction will end it. Just fyi. |
| We need to lower financial and linguistic literacy further and take a firmer approach to segregating the general populace through socio-tactical divisions not limited to but including radical political, ethnic, institutional, racial, industrial, and cultural discourse. People should not be permitted to think for themselves, after all - this privilege and responsibility is owed to those who are good at it in the first place. |
| You have said words, but I do not accept them. |
 |
| @Kwanthemaster Actually, he's right. Here in the U.S. at least, the supreme court already ruled that this kind of stuff can be regulated, back in the 1940's. Look up the Wickard v. Filburn case |
| that is the point if self sufficiency is achieve then there is no more need for economy |
| If I could figure out how and had the resources I would do everything myself or with help of others teaching me. |
| The Earth rotates the sun; therefore, the line must go up 10% or more!!! There is no plateau, there is no dip, there is no end! LINE MUST GO UP!!!!!! But sir... the robots make better cars... |
 |
Reply to DesuMaiden
Jordan Peterson isn't worth listening to. He is totally just a sophist aka a swindler.
| @DesuMaiden Coming Considering you said this in the same thread, this sounds like a recommendation for listening to him. DesuMaiden said: The entire global economy is just a scam. And Near Term Human Extinction will end it. Just fyi. |
This dance is the pinnacle of human achievement. |
| And who would even wanna benefit our bs economy tbh?? |
| The only entity that people being self sufficient is bad for is the state. Oh no, you're growing your own food and coexisting peacefully with others? Well, we need to tax your lifestyle out of existence because... just because ok? That is the price you pay for living in a civilized society.  |
DreamWindowMay 26, 4:06 PM
 This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
DreamWindow said: I would be all up for having people who are capable of living independent of a tax-funded civilization in a self-sufficient manner to not be forced into paying taxes and not be treated as if they were the biggest criminals on the planet, but everyone who uses any type of common infrastructure should pay their own share for itOh no, you're growing your own food and coexisting peacefully with others? Well, we need to tax your lifestyle out of existence because... just because ok? That is the price you pay for living in a civilized society. |
| Harms the economy? The economy is pure evil. And it needs to be destroyed ASAP. |
Reply to xthewarwithinx
@Kwanthemaster
Actually, he's right. Here in the U.S. at least, the supreme court already ruled that this kind of stuff can be regulated, back in the 1940's.
Look up the Wickard v. Filburn case
Actually, he's right. Here in the U.S. at least, the supreme court already ruled that this kind of stuff can be regulated, back in the 1940's.
Look up the Wickard v. Filburn case
| @xthewarwithinx I just threw down some nonsense, but I do see the point here that I originally missed. Also wasn't familiar with that case, thanks. |
|
| I used to be a "growing the GDP is the only thing that matters" classical liberal so this post unlocked some memories for me. I used to be especially opposed to monks because we have a lot of them in my country and they don't contribute anything to the economy. Now that I'm working 9 to 5 with a 3 hour commute in an ugly large city I feel like monks were the ones who had it right all along. |
| MEA·MENTVLA·INGENS·EST |
| Defending capitalism is for dumb people. Keep on defending those do-nothing rich parasites that contribute nothing and ruin everything. |
| the economy is already so bad self sufficiency sounds like a better option to me |
  |
| That's not how economics works. With these things, you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think, and look at what's actually going on. Is it more efficient, if we imagine a society without money for a moment, for you to clean your house, because you're already there, or for someone else to clean your house, because they are specialised in that sort of work? (And remember that eternal growth is unsustainable because we've only got one planet.) The whole "money" side is an abstraction we layer on top, it doesn't govern the basic facts of labour. |
| Think this is a parody of some sort. Generally it is a dumb point though. Hiring more maids would just shift workers from one part of the economy to another and there's no reason to think maid work is particularly important for the economy over other jobs. logopolis said: That's not how economics works. With these things, you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think, and look at what's actually going on. Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view. |
FreshellMay 27, 5:02 PM
Reply to Freshell
Think this is a parody of some sort. Generally it is a dumb point though. Hiring more maids would just shift workers from one part of the economy to another and there's no reason to think maid work is particularly important for the economy over other jobs.
Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view.
logopolis said:
That's not how economics works. With these things, you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think, and look at what's actually going on.
That's not how economics works. With these things, you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think, and look at what's actually going on.
Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view.
| @Freshell He's not necessarily saying more maids means better economy. He's saying the more cash circulation occurring usually the better the economy. In the inverse the more self sufficient someone or a group is without cash the less they are contributing to the economy because the reductions of currency circulating. Rather they are contributing directly in measures of personal and societal growth. |
traed said: He's not necessarily saying more maids means better economy. He's saying the more cash circulation occurring usually the better the economy. First, he quoted different jobs that are lost when people do something on their own. So you're reading in a justification he did not give. Money is useful because it gets you things. As recent inflation events should teach people, what matters isn't the nominal amount of bills you have but what you can get with it. So what we should be concerned about is actual output. And so that's where I analyzed things from. If more people are doing maid work, it is because they are not doing other things, such as other jobs they could be doing that might bring even more value to the economy. In the inverse the more self sufficient someone or a group is without cash the less they are contributing to the economy because the reductions of currency circulating. Rather they are contributing directly in measures of personal and societal growth. You're not helping the economy much by not doing things that give you personal meaning. Long run economic growth is determined by productivity improvements. That is, improvements in our ability to produce things given the same amount of labor and capital investment inputed. It doesn't happen because people sacrifice their life to work more hours a week. |
Reply to Freshell
Think this is a parody of some sort. Generally it is a dumb point though. Hiring more maids would just shift workers from one part of the economy to another and there's no reason to think maid work is particularly important for the economy over other jobs.
Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view.
logopolis said:
That's not how economics works. With these things, you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think, and look at what's actually going on.
That's not how economics works. With these things, you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think, and look at what's actually going on.
Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view.
Freshell said: Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view. Do you want me to congratulate you or something? If you think I'm asserting that OP was posting high-quality denialist economic theory, then no, I was not asserting that. |
Reply to logopolis
Freshell said:
Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view.
Funny you say that. The post came off as economically illiterate from a standard neoclassical view.
Do you want me to congratulate you or something? If you think I'm asserting that OP was posting high-quality denialist economic theory, then no, I was not asserting that.
logopolis said: Do you want me to congratulate you or something? If you think I'm asserting that OP was posting high-quality denialist economic theory, then no, I was not asserting that. You're sounding rather aggressive. You said "you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think." I said the OP came off as economically illiterate from a mainstream economics point of view, whose proponents support capitalism. So not a trap any capitalist who has taken a few economics courses should fall for. |
Reply to Freshell
logopolis said:
Do you want me to congratulate you or something? If you think I'm asserting that OP was posting high-quality denialist economic theory, then no, I was not asserting that.
Do you want me to congratulate you or something? If you think I'm asserting that OP was posting high-quality denialist economic theory, then no, I was not asserting that.
You're sounding rather aggressive.
You said "you have to avoid the trap of thinking as capitalists think." I said the OP came off as economically illiterate from a mainstream economics point of view, whose proponents support capitalism. So not a trap any capitalist who has taken a few economics courses should fall for.
| @Freshell By "capitalists" I meant "people who own lots of capital", not "people who support the idea of a capitalist economy". Capitalists as opposed to workers. |
| this is exactly why i have a maid at my homme |
Reply to Noboru
DreamWindow said:
Oh no, you're growing your own food and coexisting peacefully with others? Well, we need to tax your lifestyle out of existence because... just because ok? That is the price you pay for living in a civilized society.
I would be all up for having people who are capable of living independent of a tax-funded civilization in a self-sufficient manner to not be forced into paying taxes and not be treated as if they were the biggest criminals on the planet, but everyone who uses any type of common infrastructure should pay their own share for itOh no, you're growing your own food and coexisting peacefully with others? Well, we need to tax your lifestyle out of existence because... just because ok? That is the price you pay for living in a civilized society.
| @Noboru In the absence of taxation, this issue would be sorted out almost automatically, since there would be no territorial monopoly held by the state, enterprise would act accordingly to allocate resources, including infrastructure. |
DreamWindowMay 31, 2:01 PM
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to DreamWindow
@Noboru In the absence of taxation, this issue would be sorted out almost automatically, since there would be no territorial monopoly held by the state, enterprise would act accordingly to allocate resources, including infrastructure.
| @DreamWindow I'm all ears about hearing about a different proposal in case you would be for the complete abolition of taxes Otherwise, I'm only for exemptions when someone doesn't use any form of civil infrastructure, which means living outside of civilization in harmony with nature |
Reply to Noboru
@DreamWindow I'm all ears about hearing about a different proposal in case you would be for the complete abolition of taxes
Otherwise, I'm only for exemptions when someone doesn't use any form of civil infrastructure, which means living outside of civilization in harmony with nature
Otherwise, I'm only for exemptions when someone doesn't use any form of civil infrastructure, which means living outside of civilization in harmony with nature
| @Noboru It's quite simple, really. Return to a commodity money, and privatize infrastructure. That way there's no way for inflation, and the state doesn't have the ultimate say in where people can live. But for a more in depth take on it, I'd recommend reading "For a New Liberty" by Murray Rothbard. Chapters 10-12, I believe, are the relevant ones to this discussion. I think these issues are inseparable. There's no reason for the state to offer amnesty when, from their point of view, they would be better of forcing them to be tax cattle. You can see this with the intense regulations that farmers face, for one example. But it's everywhere. |
DreamWindowMay 31, 2:26 PM
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to DreamWindow
@Noboru
It's quite simple, really. Return to a commodity money, and privatize infrastructure. That way there's no way for inflation, and the state doesn't have the ultimate say in where people can live. But for a more in depth take on it, I'd recommend reading "For a New Liberty" by Murray Rothbard. Chapters 10-12, I believe, are the relevant ones to this discussion.
I think these issues are inseparable. There's no reason for the state to offer amnesty when, from their point of view, they would be better of forcing them to be tax cattle. You can see this with the intense regulations that farmers face, for one example. But it's everywhere.
It's quite simple, really. Return to a commodity money, and privatize infrastructure. That way there's no way for inflation, and the state doesn't have the ultimate say in where people can live. But for a more in depth take on it, I'd recommend reading "For a New Liberty" by Murray Rothbard. Chapters 10-12, I believe, are the relevant ones to this discussion.
I think these issues are inseparable. There's no reason for the state to offer amnesty when, from their point of view, they would be better of forcing them to be tax cattle. You can see this with the intense regulations that farmers face, for one example. But it's everywhere.
| @DreamWindow Thanks for the quick explanation and for the book recommendation I only briefly skimmed through the parts you've mentioned, but we already have privatization when it comes to Internet and you are basically at the mercy of private companies. There are enough stories where no company wants to do anything unless another one tries to get new customers And the privatization of our train system certainly didn't help to build more reliable services. That's why I'm still skeptical about full privatization even if in some cases, it can be better than state-owned or tax-funded ones like with private healthcare It's a pity there is no such form of amnesty. We can also see that with the forced contribution fee for everyone owning a radio or Internet even when they never use the public broadcasters |
Reply to Noboru
@DreamWindow Thanks for the quick explanation and for the book recommendation
I only briefly skimmed through the parts you've mentioned, but we already have privatization when it comes to Internet and you are basically at the mercy of private companies. There are enough stories where no company wants to do anything unless another one tries to get new customers
And the privatization of our train system certainly didn't help to build more reliable services. That's why I'm still skeptical about full privatization even if in some cases, it can be better than state-owned or tax-funded ones like with private healthcare
It's a pity there is no such form of amnesty. We can also see that with the forced contribution fee for everyone owning a radio or Internet even when they never use the public broadcasters
I only briefly skimmed through the parts you've mentioned, but we already have privatization when it comes to Internet and you are basically at the mercy of private companies. There are enough stories where no company wants to do anything unless another one tries to get new customers
And the privatization of our train system certainly didn't help to build more reliable services. That's why I'm still skeptical about full privatization even if in some cases, it can be better than state-owned or tax-funded ones like with private healthcare
It's a pity there is no such form of amnesty. We can also see that with the forced contribution fee for everyone owning a radio or Internet even when they never use the public broadcasters
| @Noboru Explain to me how you are at the "mercy" of a private company in regards to the internet. Because this is a multi faceted criticism that can mean many different things to different people. It's also important to understand that "privatization" does not exclusively mean corporate owned, but rather non-government owned. I don't know what it's like in Germany, but the private railroads operated far more efficiently in the west than the subsidized ones. I don't see why they can't figure this stuff out, considering all of the things that private railroads have historically achieved. He goes over it breifly in the book, but you mention you skimmed it: Milton Friedman also covered this in "Free to Choose" He starts talking about it around 9:00 Noboru said: It's a pity there is no such form of amnesty. We can also see that with the forced contribution fee for everyone owning a radio or Internet even when they never use the public broadcasters That's obscene |
This ground is soiled by those before me and their lies. I dare not look up for on me I feel their eyes |
Reply to DreamWindow
@Noboru
Explain to me how you are at the "mercy" of a private company in regards to the internet. Because this is a multi faceted criticism that can mean many different things to different people. It's also important to understand that "privatization" does not exclusively mean corporate owned, but rather non-government owned.
I don't know what it's like in Germany, but the private railroads operated far more efficiently in the west than the subsidized ones. I don't see why they can't figure this stuff out, considering all of the things that private railroads have historically achieved. He goes over it breifly in the book, but you mention you skimmed it:
Milton Friedman also covered this in "Free to Choose" He starts talking about it around 9:00
That's obscene
Explain to me how you are at the "mercy" of a private company in regards to the internet. Because this is a multi faceted criticism that can mean many different things to different people. It's also important to understand that "privatization" does not exclusively mean corporate owned, but rather non-government owned.
I don't know what it's like in Germany, but the private railroads operated far more efficiently in the west than the subsidized ones. I don't see why they can't figure this stuff out, considering all of the things that private railroads have historically achieved. He goes over it breifly in the book, but you mention you skimmed it:
Milton Friedman also covered this in "Free to Choose" He starts talking about it around 9:00
Noboru said:
It's a pity there is no such form of amnesty. We can also see that with the forced contribution fee for everyone owning a radio or Internet even when they never use the public broadcasters
It's a pity there is no such form of amnesty. We can also see that with the forced contribution fee for everyone owning a radio or Internet even when they never use the public broadcasters
That's obscene
DreamWindow said: Not myself, since I live in a city with enough speed for my own use and thankfully, we don't have stupid things such as data caps for broadband network connections for most tariffs, but if I were to live more rural where there would be like only one ISP, I would be at the mercy of that one ISP, regardless if it would be a private company or a state-owned one, though the Deutsche Telekom has been long since privatizedExplain to me how you are at the "mercy" of a private company in regards to the internet. DreamWindow said: In short, things have become less reliable once the Deutsche Bahn, the national railway company became part of the stock marketI don't know what it's like in Germany, but the private railroads operated far more efficiently in the west than the subsidized ones. That's an interesting video, thanks for that Though the plane has become the more viable option for long-distance traveling and transport DreamWindow said: Sadly reality here, but glad to see we agree at least in parts about somethingThat's obscene |
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