Grimm Kumikyoku Episode 4 Discussion

The Elves and the shoemaker
So who was that girl at the end of the day. I don't really get the ending for this one, why did he kill himself?

Grimm Brothers make a cameo appearance at media conference for the novel Elves and the Shoemaker.

It's interesting that this adaptation bring the "subjective" aspect to the tale. One of the difference from the origina tale is that, the original shoemaker make a shoe for elves in compensate for elve's hardwork. In this Netflix adaptation, the "shoemaker" aka the novelist doesn't provide a shoe aka a novel to the elve, thus he died. But let's look at it in a more realistic aspect. The elves did not kill him, or any curse, or any supernatural cause. The novelist died because of the overdose of substance (alcohol in his sake). His bestselling works always written when he drunk, which is why he feel like they're his works but also not his works at the same time. This also reflects that some artists use drug or alcohol to make their works better, and sadly some of them died because of these.

Grimm Brothers make a cameo appearance at media conference for the novel Elves and the Shoemaker.

It's interesting that this adaptation bring the "subjective" aspect to the tale. One of the difference from the origina tale is that, the original shoemaker make a shoe for elves in compensate for elve's hardwork. In this Netflix adaptation, the "shoemaker" aka the novelist doesn't provide a shoe aka a novel to the elve, thus he died. But let's look at it in a more realistic aspect. The elves did not kill him, or any curse, or any supernatural cause. The novelist died because of the overdose of substance (alcohol in his sake). His bestselling works always written when he drunk, which is why he feel like they're his works but also not his works at the same time. This also reflects that some artists use drug or alcohol to make their works better, and sadly some of them died because of these.

Grimm Brothers make a cameo appearance at media conference for the novel Elves and the Shoemaker.

It's interesting that this adaptation bring the "subjective" aspect to the tale. One of the difference from the origina tale is that, the original shoemaker make a shoe for elves in compensate for elve's hardwork. In this Netflix adaptation, the "shoemaker" aka the novelist doesn't provide a shoe aka a novel to the elve, thus he died. But let's look at it in a more realistic aspect. The elves did not kill him, or any curse, or any supernatural cause. The novelist died because of the overdose of substance (alcohol in his sake). His bestselling works always written when he drunk, which is why he feel like they're his works but also not his works at the same time. This also reflects that some artists use drug or alcohol to make their works better, and sadly some of them died because of these.

Grimm Brothers make a cameo appearance at media conference for the novel Elves and the Shoemaker.

It's interesting that this adaptation bring the "subjective" aspect to the tale. One of the difference from the origina tale is that, the original shoemaker make a shoe for elves in compensate for elve's hardwork. In this Netflix adaptation, the "shoemaker" aka the novelist doesn't provide a shoe aka a novel to the elve, thus he died. But let's look at it in a more realistic aspect. The elves did not kill him, or any curse, or any supernatural cause. The novelist died because of the overdose of substance (alcohol in his sake). His bestselling works always written when he drunk, which is why he feel like they're his works but also not his works at the same time. This also reflects that some artists use drug or alcohol to make their works better, and sadly some of them died because of these.

Holy moly, aside from maybe the first one, I think this was the best.

I think any creative will find what the main character went through to bee deeply depressing. This was for me probably the scariest story lol

I think he doesn't have family. It was a vision: what life he might have had if he had finished the book.

@APolygons2 While I more or less understood the formula of this episode, I didn't quite understand the message. Are they saying that releasing controversial but soulful creativity is more important than releasing sterile, cliched content for the sake of fame and money?

@RobertBobert well, actually no

It's about an author who over the years has lost the soul in his work, and he doesn't understand why. His lines about "I know I'm not the best, but I'm know I'm better than a lot of other authors" or "I know I have improved on a technical level"

Really tells you about his mentality at the start of the story.

But then he is given stories, with his writing style, that he does not remember writing. He even criticizes it for being a little messy, but when submitted, everyone loves the hell out of it.

The terrifying part is that, he genuinely doesn't understand why this story that clearly uses his writing style, or similar themes, and has his hand writing....is good or special.

He has fallen so far, that the quality that everyone else understands and praises doesn't make sense to him.

The key is, that little girl had given him this chance as an experiment or push, to see if he could get back what he had lost. But instead, he just kind of rolls with the stories being his. He convinces himself that he wrote them despite him knowing it wasn't the case.

So when the little girl confronts him, into facing that reality, and implies that the shoe maker's story won't be coming anymore, he kills himself.

He failed to realize what his writing had lost even with the answer being right in front of him.

@APolygons2 So the idea is that he lost his soul in his technically perfect writing, which he can't realize because he... lost his soul?

@RobertBobert Not technically perfect, he thinks he has improved, but this isn't a "technical writing VS soul" kind of deal.

It's just about the fact that he has lost the soul, and doesn't recognize it, or get it.

There isn't really a super deep message here, it's just a depressing story about a writer who has lost something, that everyone but him can see.

@APolygons2 So, no special twists or overly deep metaphors or allegories, just a pessimistic story about how the loss of the soul prevents the writer from realizing that he has lost it?

@RobertBobert Yep.

I guess The twist on it is that the elves or elf wasn't helping some hard working guy out of the goodness of their heart.

Instead it was a weird supernatural girl that was playing some weird experiment/game/what ever you want to call it with some depressed writer.

@APolygons2 Like try to support him in the hope that by getting rid of pessimism he will be able to regain his soul and finish the novel that interested her? Now it looks like a paranormal thriller-parable from the early 90s.

@RobertBobert Yeah that's pretty much it lol

@APolygons2 Well, the idea that you can't realize you've lost your soul because you now have no soul is quite interesting, but it seems like too much of a standalone story in itself compared to past stories that were literally adaptations of Grimm's fairy tales.

@RobertBobert I mean, I'm not familiar with the original grimm fairly tails.

I actually didn't even know it was a thing that existed before this show came out. So to me, all of these were completely stand alone stories that barely had anything to do with the original fairly tale.

I will say though, I'm pretty sure all of these are fairly different from the original grimm fairy tales. I can't imagine anyone writing a sci-fi story with reality altering eye drops in 1812.

@APolygons2 Do you live outside of Europe or conventional Western society? Because in Europe, the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm are among the most famous and influential literary works. Like the works of Homer, Shakespeare or Dumas. But it's not that important. My point was that most of the episodes as a whole pretty clearly maintained at least the general framework of the original work. This simply takes the motif of the Elvs creating works of art for the talented but poor worker from the Shoemaker and the Elvs and that’s it.

The original tale was basically about how you should thank those who help you get through a tough time in life. Well, and bring an offering to the brownies, if we take things too literally.

@RobertBobert I grew up in iran until I was like 14, and now I have been living in Australia for 5 years. So make of that what you will.

I think there may be a chance I'm mistaking something. Are the grimm fairly tales, grimm version of the original? or is it just the fairly tales themselves?

Cause I obviously know of Cinderella or the little red riding hood, and the other stuff, I just assumed the "grimm" fairly tales was a different thing.



To be perfectly honest though, I actually think this one is one of the closer ones to the original story. Episode 2, 5 and 6 where a lot more "different" if you ask me.

The elves and the shoe maker is a story about some supernatural beings helping a creator in need.

This is also about that supernatural being helping a creator in need.

It's a different take on it with a dark twist.... but like... so was cannibals, in a sci-fi setting with rich people hunt humans. as I said, If anything I think this one is actually more related.

@APolygons2

If we talk specifically about Cinderella, then its modern version was created by the Frenchman Charles Perot and the Brothers Grimm independently of each other. With the difference that Perot literally wrote fairy tales, and the brothers were engaged in literary processing of folklore.

When we talk about the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm, we are talking about the German versions of classic European fairy tales or German fairy folklore, which the brothers produced in a number of collections as pioneers of German linguistics and Germanic studies.

They were not their authors in the literal sense of the word, but they are responsible for their classical literary form. As for the dark versions, this is mainly a meme caused by the fact that as folklorists and especially German folklorists, the brothers preserved for future descendants not only edgy German culture, but also the original edgy spirit of medieval tales, which was often censored due to the gradual transformation fairy tales into literature for children. Therefore, the fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm are often perceived as an edgy version of fairy tales.

Well, other stories still retain the general framework and idea, just working with it in an original way. For example, Episode 5 retains the theme of a team of marginalized people fighting criminals using their unique personalities. Episodes 2 and 3 are about how a careless hunter can become a victim himself or about how mutual support between brothers and sisters can help children in the most difficult situations. In the same episode, I subjectively did not feel this due to the fact that the most positive idea was replaced by the most pessimistic one. But yeah, it still follows the general tone of the anime.

So, are you Iranian? Well, as far as I know superficially, Iranian national literature is no less rich than European literature, although I know absolutely nothing about oriental fairy tales. Unless, of course, Sinbad and 1000 and 1 Night can be called that.

Makes sense, thanks a lot for the very informative comments!



It does, I know absolutely nothing about literature, and I still can name dozens due to the sheer number and fame of them in iran.

The most famous one is called "shah name" which pretty much translates to kings letter, book of king or kings note. And it has a lot of interesting stories, it's a whole ass epic with so much lore and mythical creatures, and just everything.

I actually haven't seen a fantasy setting in japanese or western media like it, so I kinda hope someone actually adapts some stories from it properly. Like they made a bunch of D tier animation in iran, but as the D tier suggest they are all subpar at best.

It also has a decently famous story around it's creation. Apparently when when the author first tried to publish the story, he got told that it sucks. So he went and came back in 30 years, by rewriting the entire thing in poetry.

The dude is basically what shakespeare is to english.