| Years ago I remember complaining a lot about the first Dr Strange movie, because while a lot of the imagery and a lot of what other characters talk about in the movie is about the concept of "time", it actually has zero things to do with our protagonist and his journey, as his problem was actually being an asshole (And he never stops being an asshole), and I felt that some small changes could've fixed that (e.g. make it so at the start of the movie he chooses to make that dangerous surgery because he's in a hurry, make it so he suffers his accident for the same reason, make it so he will regain his hand movements back, but it will take years, make it so he was a natural at being a doctor, but he will struggle to learn magic, etc). Recently, I felt similar things watching Yamato: As much as most of the series presents the themes of not abusing power and trying to find ways of cooperation, even if it involves some form of self-sacrifice, rather than sacrificing others, the reality is that, at the end of the anime, our villains don't lose because of their mentality/ideology, but rather because of an ass-pull. I feel that this REALLY undermines the themes here, as it ultimately "doesn't rhyme". Again, tons of ideas that could've solved that (Make it a "reverse Krypton" situation that Iscandarians/Gamilusians are special, but in the environment of Earth they would become like normal humans, or that by having children with people of Earth their descendants might be able to survive, and then make it so the Gamilusians are racist/supremacist and that's why they prefer genocide and imperialism, etc). There's also the case of certain anime which I don't like the ending very much, but that it is so thematically appropriate (It "rhymes") that I simply cannot call it bad. One of the examples being Takopii no Genzai: The final message is that, in the cycle of abuse, the "optimal situation" would be for the abused to rather befriend and help each-other in their misery, and that yet, in a "laissez-faire" situation they would rather continue it. And that therefore what solved the situation wasn't any "magical gadget", but rather simple actions that anyone could've made, and that such simple actions solved such a big problem IS in itself more magical than any gadget. IDK if there's a name for what I've been calling "poetry/thematicness", but it might just be one of the things I value the most in anime. Do you have any similar stories like that to share? |
| No, i'm not particularly drawn to it. |
| Yeah, I like that, but it's not a must-have. |
*kappa* |
| The word the OP wants may be "lyricism" (though I'm not sure if that was his intent), and it may involve themes that form the narrative and the events/characters within it. It's a tricky thing for any feature or its creators to pull off. One feature I think may fit is the 1981 OVA "Natsu e no Tobira", which was a melodrama involving adolescence and maturity and young love. It was deliberately animated as an art piece, which can either enhance the viewing experience or put people off.  TO answer the OP's question, I can admire and appreciate poetry where I see it, but generally if it does appeal to me. |
| It's not obligatory, but it's one of the major ways of telling a good story. I generally say that narrative can work based on plot, based on character or based on theme. And while all of these can produce very fine stories, I do think that theme-based narrative has the most potential because the other two both involve a certain degree of pretending that a fictional thing is real, but this doesn't have to happen at all for theme-based narrative. But it's also the hardest to do, because it requires a deeper understanding of how storytelling specifically works, you can't coast to an extent based on your knowledge of real life. True masters can do two, or even all three simultaneously. |
logopolisYesterday, 3:45 AM
| Nah, that's too pretentious for me to care about. |
*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧May the winds of change transform you entirely.*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧ |
| "Do you like "poetry/thematicness"" When done properly. "our villains don't lose because of their mentality/ideology, but rather because of an ass-pull." Not really. Starsha gives a super weapon to earthlings and states"Don use it as weapon!"...and what the earthlings do is to use is as weapon almost all the time. Basically we won because we are jerks...tho faced against other jerks. Also, did you missed that Earth and Gamilas became allies? Chances are Desler being an authoritarian megalomaniac, didn't sit well with the populous and some of the politicians. By the way, the MC - Susumu Kodai is the biggest jerk in the show, especially to his best friend Daisuke Shima. The ass-pull you are talking is maybe when the ship's science officer uses said weapon as a shield for a change. I think this was nice idea. Also another dark aspect I like - when Yamato was away, things didn't went very humanitarian on Earth. Some dystopian "government drowns riots in blood" was going on. In the remake of Yamato the earthlings somehow mange to make a pact with Desler's opposition and organise a coup - this is how the regime falls. |
thewiru said: that is a clear misinterpretation. the only thing it that movie that has anything to do with time is the Eye of Agamotto. there is no actual theme in Doctor Strange, only a very weak character arc for Strange himself.Years ago I remember complaining a lot about the first Dr Strange movie, because while a lot of the imagery and a lot of what other characters talk about in the movie is about the concept of "time thewiru said: it's called "having a theme".IDK if there's a name for what I've been calling "poetry/thematicness" most stories don't have strong themes beyond anything that one would have to deliberately read into them, Death-of-the-Author style. unless they are emphasized and very strongly embedded, themes are entirely up for interpretation. like how one possible reading of Naruto is as a story about two gay lovers rejected by a hypermasculine society. I think it's a fun excercise to try and read into something and figure out a possible theme, but it's easy to overdo it and analyze the fun out of a story. |
| why do you talk about yamato when you didn't watch it? you keep embarassing yourself with your bad comprehension, yamato is not some complicated shit, it feeds you everything you need to know and all is revolved on screen but I guess this is what happens when you read a wiki article or use AI to make a sumarry. |
    |
Reply to Haneken2086
The word the OP wants may be "lyricism" (though I'm not sure if that was his intent), and it may involve themes that form the narrative and the events/characters within it.
It's a tricky thing for any feature or its creators to pull off.
One feature I think may fit is the 1981 OVA "Natsu e no Tobira", which was a melodrama involving adolescence and maturity and young love. It was deliberately animated as an art piece, which can either enhance the viewing experience or put people off.
TO answer the OP's question, I can admire and appreciate poetry where I see it, but generally if it does appeal to me.
It's a tricky thing for any feature or its creators to pull off.
One feature I think may fit is the 1981 OVA "Natsu e no Tobira", which was a melodrama involving adolescence and maturity and young love. It was deliberately animated as an art piece, which can either enhance the viewing experience or put people off.
TO answer the OP's question, I can admire and appreciate poetry where I see it, but generally if it does appeal to me.
Haneken2086 said: One feature I think may fit is the 1981 OVA "Natsu e no Tobira", which was a melodrama involving adolescence and maturity and young love. It was deliberately animated as an art piece, which can either enhance the viewing experience or put people off. I dislike how incredibly slow paced the adaptation is. The manga only takes a dozen minutes to read through. The anime has the same story, except I nearly fell asleep waiting for anything to happen. Kaze to Ki no Uta is a far better adaptation of a manga by the same creator. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Reply to alshu
"Do you like "poetry/thematicness""
When done properly.
"our villains don't lose because of their mentality/ideology, but rather because of an ass-pull."
Not really.
Starsha gives a super weapon to earthlings and states"Don use it as weapon!"...and what the earthlings do is to use is as weapon almost all the time.
Basically we won because we are jerks...tho faced against other jerks.
Also, did you missed that Earth and Gamilas became allies? Chances are Desler being an authoritarian megalomaniac, didn't sit well with the populous and some of the politicians.
By the way, the MC - Susumu Kodai is the biggest jerk in the show, especially to his best friend Daisuke Shima.
The ass-pull you are talking is maybe when the ship's science officer uses said weapon as a shield for a change. I think this was nice idea.
Also another dark aspect I like - when Yamato was away, things didn't went very humanitarian on Earth. Some dystopian "government drowns riots in blood" was going on.
In the remake of Yamato the earthlings somehow mange to make a pact with Desler's opposition and organise a coup - this is how the regime falls.
When done properly.
"our villains don't lose because of their mentality/ideology, but rather because of an ass-pull."
Not really.
Starsha gives a super weapon to earthlings and states"Don use it as weapon!"...and what the earthlings do is to use is as weapon almost all the time.
Basically we won because we are jerks...tho faced against other jerks.
Also, did you missed that Earth and Gamilas became allies? Chances are Desler being an authoritarian megalomaniac, didn't sit well with the populous and some of the politicians.
By the way, the MC - Susumu Kodai is the biggest jerk in the show, especially to his best friend Daisuke Shima.
The ass-pull you are talking is maybe when the ship's science officer uses said weapon as a shield for a change. I think this was nice idea.
Also another dark aspect I like - when Yamato was away, things didn't went very humanitarian on Earth. Some dystopian "government drowns riots in blood" was going on.
In the remake of Yamato the earthlings somehow mange to make a pact with Desler's opposition and organise a coup - this is how the regime falls.
alshu said: Also, did you missed that Earth and Gamilas became allies? When did that happen? Gamilus was completely destroyed. That Desler survived was supposed to come as a surprise. alshu said: The ass-pull you are talking is maybe when the ship's science officer uses said weapon as a shield for a change. I think this was nice idea. It wasn't the same weapon, it was a weapon based around the laser satellites on Pluto. alshu said: In the remake of Yamato the earthlings somehow mange to make a pact with Desler's opposition and organise a coup - this is how the regime falls. I guess I'll also check the remake. |
thewiru said: When did that happen? Seriously? thewiru said: Gamilus was completely destroyed. The planet with that name - yes. But there's also a freaking interstellar empire with the same name. thewiru said: That Desler survived was supposed to come as a surprise. Yes, so? He and several still loyal to him militaries. thewiru said: it was a weapon based around the laser satellites on Pluto Wasn't that like in the beginning of the story? Not the thing I was referring to. Can you elaborate on "ass-pull"? Maybe the destruction of their homeworld? Gamilas was already collapsing. Yamato's attack only sped up the process with a month or six. |
alshuYesterday, 12:24 PM
| Yes/No,Yes/No Don't care for themes or lessons or messages, and don't feel the absence of that thing alone much. At the same time the gaps where those are usually placed are being left vacant and that is very much making anime worse. Not for lacking theme, for lacking character and certain exchanges that build character. Characters debating their ideals, fighting for them, opposing others on those grounds; all of these are mutual to a theme being present. There doesn't have to be a theme but without a theme it's like these kinds of interactions don't get written in. There is nothing more boring than a villain who is evil for no reason other than he is the evil character, a protagonist who is good because he is the main character, and side characters who have nothing going on in their heads. I think those sorts of hollow characters are consequence to writing without a theme in mind and forgetting that people still have their own beliefs. |
Reply to alshu
thewiru said:
When did that happen?
When did that happen?
Seriously?
thewiru said:
Gamilus was completely destroyed.
Gamilus was completely destroyed.
The planet with that name - yes. But there's also a freaking interstellar empire with the same name.
thewiru said:
That Desler survived was supposed to come as a surprise.
That Desler survived was supposed to come as a surprise.
Yes, so? He and several still loyal to him militaries.
thewiru said:
it was a weapon based around the laser satellites on Pluto
it was a weapon based around the laser satellites on Pluto
Wasn't that like in the beginning of the story?
Not the thing I was referring to.
Can you elaborate on "ass-pull"? Maybe the destruction of their homeworld?
Gamilas was already collapsing. Yamato's attack only sped up the process with a month or six.
alshu said: Seriously? 100%, I just finished watching it, there was no such scene. Unless it happens in the sequel. Yamato having a random shield that could reflect the canon from Desler's ship. It is stated that Sanada made that based on the technology of the reflective satellites in Pluto. |
thewiru said: Unless it happens in the sequel. Nope...tho the sequel continues with that as status quo. Tho you were talking about multiple animation and editing error and I don't remember as many of those. Some continuity errors maybe (mostly noticeable in their uniforms)... Eventually the version I was watching was a remaster and had many fixes or maybe an added scene or two. One of the episodes had two iterations - the one which aired originally and the one released later for the repeats. thewiru said: Yamato having a random shield that could reflect the canon from Desler's ship. That's the wave notion gun being used as shield. thewiru said: Sanada made that based on the technology of the reflective satellites in Pluto But with the power from the wave motion gun, thus the symbolism of it finally not being used as weapon. |
| I'm usually neutral about it, I mean that "poetry/thematicness" can be a plus but not at the expense of logic. The only time I felt that the lack of "poetry/thematicness" had a significant role in making an ending even more jarring was AoT, which has several problems and the fact that the ship between the two main characters suddenly became the most important thing (solely for the sake of unpredictability) is one of them. |
NirinboYesterday, 1:21 PM
Reply to Nirinbo
I'm usually neutral about it, I mean that "poetry/thematicness" can be a plus but not at the expense of logic.
The only time I felt that the lack of "poetry/thematicness" had a significant role in making an ending even more jarring was AoT, which has several problems and the fact that the ship between the two main characters suddenly became the most important thing (solely for the sake of unpredictability) is one of them.
The only time I felt that the lack of "poetry/thematicness" had a significant role in making an ending even more jarring was AoT, which has several problems and the fact that the ship between the two main characters suddenly became the most important thing (solely for the sake of unpredictability) is one of them.
| @Nirinbo Trying to put a theme into Attack on Titan in season 4 ruined it in my book, so theme is bad, logical events good. The best a story can do is make sense literally, everything else is merely extra. |
*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧May the winds of change transform you entirely.*:･ﾟ✧*:･ﾟ✧ |
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