| Yesterday I had a bit of free time, so I watched Koukaku Kidoutai. Granted, people post so much shit about it online that I had probably watched half of it from small cuts, videos and screencaps alone. It was... OK, I guess, 7/10. My problem is that it is a movie mostly about making you feel things, and I'm kinda bad with those. When it comes to anime, I feel that I'm better with remembering "story beats" (Recently I made some posts about scenes that were original from Nomad's anime and weren't in the manga, and how they left an impression on me. In that case it was easy for me, because it's just the story of the anime which I can remember at any time. It's a bit harder with Koukaku Kidoutai, because I only had feelings for it while I was watching it, didn't know why I did, nor can I remember the scenes. Considering that the plot is very short, it likely wasn't it. Likewise, I didn't feel much for the 3-4 times there are long montages with "Making of a Cyborg" playing. If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it? |
| By enjoying each episode individually without think of a linear continuity. |
| If you like the characters enough, you'll care enough whatever happened to them. Because stories are told through them. I also don't really care about Gits cast so I thought it was meh as well. You don't need to learn anything. |
  |
Reply to tchitchouan
By enjoying each episode individually without think of a linear continuity.
| @tchitchouan ...that one was a movie, though. |
Reply to thewiru
@tchitchouan
...that one was a movie, though.
...that one was a movie, though.
| @thewiru the same principle applies, consider it a standalone movie with no continuity. |
Reply to tchitchouan
@thewiru the same principle applies, consider it a standalone movie with no continuity.
| @tchitchouan I mean, I haven't watched it's sequel, so technically I'm already treating it as that, and it isn't making stuff any better. I guess what I should've said is that the movie seems to rely a lot in it's aesthetics and stuff, which doesn't really hit me since we've all been over-exposed to them in the 30 years since it's release. |
Reply to thewiru
@tchitchouan
I mean, I haven't watched it's sequel, so technically I'm already treating it as that, and it isn't making stuff any better.
I guess what I should've said is that the movie seems to rely a lot in it's aesthetics and stuff, which doesn't really hit me since we've all been over-exposed to them in the 30 years since it's release.
I mean, I haven't watched it's sequel, so technically I'm already treating it as that, and it isn't making stuff any better.
I guess what I should've said is that the movie seems to rely a lot in it's aesthetics and stuff, which doesn't really hit me since we've all been over-exposed to them in the 30 years since it's release.
| @thewiru Yeah, you really have to put the movie in its historical context to be able to appreciate it better, because it's been copied a lot in other anime. |
| Go take a media course or something so you can learn something actually useful. You live in a country renowned for its literature. Clearly, you should be able to find something. |
| I think it depends on what the anime is about. For instance if it's all about fan service, then the viewer probably doesn't care much about the plot anyway. I for one love artsy anime, so it doesn't necessarily have to have a story at all so long as the art can speak for itself. If that makes any sense. @_@ |
 |
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
Go take a media course or something so you can learn something actually useful. You live in a country renowned for its literature. Clearly, you should be able to find something.
MelodyOfMemory said: Go take a media course or something so you can learn something actually useful. OK, how/where can I do this? Genuine question. |
| Koukaku Kidoutai aka Ghost In The Shell definitely has a story, but it's a different beast than your regular anime. I didn't liked it or get it the first time around....still not a fan of it (I really like Innocence tho). Two things going on here: 1. It fast forwards the lore of the franchise. Even if you pause at every info dump, you still wouldn't get fully what is actually going on. Personally I begun understanding it only after watching Ghost In The Shell SAC. Maybe I was supposed to read the manga (which was unavailable at the time GITS came to cable TV) before watching the movie? 2. Mamoru Oshii's style here needs some getting used to. Like only after watching Patabor The Movie and Patlabor 2 the Movie I said to myself "Oooh, this is how I should watch GITS to actually enjoy it.". It's trippy and dream like. That said...even before that, you should watch Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor (1988) OVA which is in a different style, but has important Patlabor lore the understand Patabor The Movie and Patlabor 2 the Movie. To sum it - you need to do your homework before watching the Ghost In The Shell (1995) movie to "get it". "If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it?" In this particular case: Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor (1988) OVA -> Patabor The Movie -> Patlabor 2 the Movie -> GITS -> GITS: Innocence. Weirdly enough, you can watch the most trippy Oshii title - Angel's Egg without any preparation (none will help you anyway). It's like going to a surrealist art exhibition, not a movie. |
alshuSep 19, 12:14 AM
Reply to alshu
Koukaku Kidoutai aka Ghost In The Shell definitely has a story, but it's a different beast than your regular anime. I didn't liked it or get it the first time around....still not a fan of it (I really like Innocence tho).
Two things going on here:
1. It fast forwards the lore of the franchise. Even if you pause at every info dump, you still wouldn't get fully what is actually going on.
Personally I begun understanding it only after watching Ghost In The Shell SAC. Maybe I was supposed to read the manga (which was unavailable at the time GITS came to cable TV) before watching the movie?
2. Mamoru Oshii's style here needs some getting used to. Like only after watching Patabor The Movie and Patlabor 2 the Movie I said to myself "Oooh, this is how I should watch GITS to actually enjoy it.". It's trippy and dream like.
That said...even before that, you should watch Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor (1988) OVA which is in a different style, but has important Patlabor lore the understand Patabor The Movie and Patlabor 2 the Movie.
To sum it - you need to do your homework before watching the Ghost In The Shell (1995) movie to "get it".
"If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it?"
In this particular case: Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor (1988) OVA -> Patabor The Movie -> Patlabor 2 the Movie -> GITS -> GITS: Innocence.
Weirdly enough, you can watch the most trippy Oshii title - Angel's Egg without any preparation (none will help you anyway). It's like going to a surrealist art exhibition, not a movie.
Two things going on here:
1. It fast forwards the lore of the franchise. Even if you pause at every info dump, you still wouldn't get fully what is actually going on.
Personally I begun understanding it only after watching Ghost In The Shell SAC. Maybe I was supposed to read the manga (which was unavailable at the time GITS came to cable TV) before watching the movie?
2. Mamoru Oshii's style here needs some getting used to. Like only after watching Patabor The Movie and Patlabor 2 the Movie I said to myself "Oooh, this is how I should watch GITS to actually enjoy it.". It's trippy and dream like.
That said...even before that, you should watch Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor (1988) OVA which is in a different style, but has important Patlabor lore the understand Patabor The Movie and Patlabor 2 the Movie.
To sum it - you need to do your homework before watching the Ghost In The Shell (1995) movie to "get it".
"If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it?"
In this particular case: Kidou Keisatsu Patlabor (1988) OVA -> Patabor The Movie -> Patlabor 2 the Movie -> GITS -> GITS: Innocence.
Weirdly enough, you can watch the most trippy Oshii title - Angel's Egg without any preparation (none will help you anyway). It's like going to a surrealist art exhibition, not a movie.
alshu said: To sum it - you need to do your homework before watching the Ghost In The Shell (1995) movie to "get it". Kinda weird that every time I ask if I have to do homework in order to watch something, people answer me "WTF, of course not, schizo", but this time it's actually the case, lol. I did already watch Tenshi no Tamago and Jin-Roh, so this wasn't my first Oshii film. |
thewiru said: Kinda weird that every time I ask if I have to do homework in order to watch something, people answer me "WTF, of course not, schizo", but this time it's actually the case, lol. Yeah and many recommend this movie as gateway to anime...I disagree. Thing is, you should go case by case. Some franchises need prepping, other will be more enjoyable if you go in blind. thewiru said: Tenshi no Tamago I remember you disking it. Will you enjoy it better if you rematch it now, when you know that it's more of a vision than coherent story? thewiru said: Jin-Roh He is more of a cowriter there. Also was doing storyboardig and planning. The movie is based on a live action franchise of his. |
How to better understand and enjoy non-story-based anime? By getting high somehow before watching. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Reply to alshu
thewiru said:
Kinda weird that every time I ask if I have to do homework in order to watch something, people answer me "WTF, of course not, schizo", but this time it's actually the case, lol.
Kinda weird that every time I ask if I have to do homework in order to watch something, people answer me "WTF, of course not, schizo", but this time it's actually the case, lol.
Yeah and many recommend this movie as gateway to anime...I disagree.
Thing is, you should go case by case. Some franchises need prepping, other will be more enjoyable if you go in blind.
thewiru said:
Tenshi no Tamago
Tenshi no Tamago
I remember you disking it.
Will you enjoy it better if you rematch it now, when you know that it's more of a vision than coherent story?
thewiru said:
Jin-Roh
Jin-Roh
He is more of a cowriter there. Also was doing storyboardig and planning.
The movie is based on a live action franchise of his.
alshu said: I remember you disking it. I wouldn't even say I "disliked it". It just... wasn't my thing. Well, it wasn't the thing for most people, the movie was a turbo-flop, after all, but I kinda wanted to be one of those people whom this movie was very meaningful and stuff. It's one of those things that make me want to learn how to "analyze movies": I know a burger is a burger, but I can't tell which part is the patty, which is the bread, which is the salad, which is the pickles, etc Likewise, I can't tell which part is photography, which is directing, which is screenwriting, which is editing, etc, and I also can't differ if one is good or bad outside of the vibes I have. Where could I learn that? |
| I mean, you don't need to get too sidetracked into whether something has a story or not. The question can still apply to anime where the story takes a backseat to other elements. I watch a few shows where the story itself is of little consequence, and you can still end up with interesting characters, well-written dialogue and well-executed visuals. And that's really just objective criteria. There are also purely emotive responses to what you're watching, and these don't always require a story to be forefront. I don't know if it's a learned skill. Maybe it's more a case of requiring the viewer to bring their own experience to what they're being asked to interact with? If that's the case, I guess you get better at it by...err....living more? |
| Disagree on "doing homework" to watch Ghost in the Shell. I've watched it years ago when I wasn't even familiar with anime, and I found plenty to like about the movie, even though I didn't really understand everything that happened and wasn't sure what the filmmakers were going for. Over the years I got more comfortable with it with a few re-watches and reading some reviews. The movie can be taken at face value. It's pretty popular outside the anime circles as well, alongside movies like Akira and Totoro. No historical context, franchise lore or philosophy textbooks is really needed. Sure, maybe you wouldn't like it as much if you don't know about all that other stuff around it, but if you don't like the movie that much in the first place, then it's not worth digging into it further anyway. |
Reply to Briekimchi
I mean, you don't need to get too sidetracked into whether something has a story or not. The question can still apply to anime where the story takes a backseat to other elements. I watch a few shows where the story itself is of little consequence, and you can still end up with interesting characters, well-written dialogue and well-executed visuals. And that's really just objective criteria. There are also purely emotive responses to what you're watching, and these don't always require a story to be forefront.
I don't know if it's a learned skill. Maybe it's more a case of requiring the viewer to bring their own experience to what they're being asked to interact with? If that's the case, I guess you get better at it by...err....living more?
I don't know if it's a learned skill. Maybe it's more a case of requiring the viewer to bring their own experience to what they're being asked to interact with? If that's the case, I guess you get better at it by...err....living more?
| @Briekimchi It just doesn't sit well on how my mind works: An anime such as Mahou Shoujo Magical Destroyers sucks at it's moment-to-moment to the point I felt like giving it a 4/10 when it ended, but every time I go back to thinking about it, I remember some of it's very good scenes, so it grew on me. When it comes to GitS, it's moment-to-moment it's good, but the movie is very short with not much happening for me to reminisce. So I'll know that some parts of it left me pleased, but I wont remember which. |
Reply to thewiru
alshu said:
I remember you disking it.
I remember you disking it.
I wouldn't even say I "disliked it".
It just... wasn't my thing.
Well, it wasn't the thing for most people, the movie was a turbo-flop, after all, but I kinda wanted to be one of those people whom this movie was very meaningful and stuff.
It's one of those things that make me want to learn how to "analyze movies": I know a burger is a burger, but I can't tell which part is the patty, which is the bread, which is the salad, which is the pickles, etc
Likewise, I can't tell which part is photography, which is directing, which is screenwriting, which is editing, etc, and I also can't differ if one is good or bad outside of the vibes I have.
Where could I learn that?
| @thewiru https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2016/08/17/full-anime-production-ending-credits-guide/ Start here, learn how anime is constructed first, actual evaluation is kind of a free for all, just read/watch others do it and form your own method. You get better at it and more attentive the more you do it. |
| I reallllllllllllllllly think you should stop being obsessed with trying to watch anime in a certain way.....This is reallllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyy not healthy dude...your posts are insane man |
thewiru said: to be one of those people whom this movie was very meaningful and stuff Not sure if it's meant to say anything in particular. Like there are some obvious biblical references (especially to Noah's Arc), the legend of the phenix, whale hunters hunting for a fish which is the link between sea animals and land animals, loosing innocence (apparently a recurring theme in Oshii's work), empty expectations (like the titular egg is empty) ect. That's a bunch of random stuff. How are you supposed to learn to like stuff like that? I don't know, I simply enjoyed its weird mood and beautiful art. Maybe go and watch a ton of artsy experimental anime like Aru Tabibito no Nikkie. Genius Party, Inaka Isha, Memories, Nekojiru-sou, Onkyou Seimeitai Noiseman, Rain Town, Robot Carnival, Tsumiki no Ie, X Densha de Ikou, Cencoroll Connect, Junk Head, Manie-Manie: Meikyuu Monogatari ect. thewiru said: Likewise, I can't tell which part is photography, which is directing, which is screenwriting, which is editing, etc, and I also can't differ if one is good or bad outside of the vibes I have. Where could I learn that? Google "learning movie analysis" or something. (Ignore the Google AI response tho, since it states the obvious.) |
thewiru said: Yesterday I had a bit of free time, so I watched Koukaku Kidoutai. Granted, people post so much shit about it online that I had probably watched half of it from small cuts, videos and screencaps alone. It was... OK, I guess, 7/10. My problem is that it is a movie mostly about making you feel things, and I'm kinda bad with those. When it comes to anime, I feel that I'm better with remembering "story beats" (Recently I made some posts about scenes that were original from Nomad's anime and weren't in the manga, and how they left an impression on me. In that case it was easy for me, because it's just the story of the anime which I can remember at any time. It's a bit harder with Koukaku Kidoutai, because I only had feelings for it while I was watching it, didn't know why I did, nor can I remember the scenes. Considering that the plot is very short, it likely wasn't it. Likewise, I didn't feel much for the 3-4 times there are long montages with "Making of a Cyborg" playing. If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it? To answer your question... you don't It is not a learnt skill, it is simply down to personal taste Personally the anime i like most are the ones with a stronger focus on the characters psyche, and if it's paired with a coheasive plot so much the better as i prefere those to more non-story-based or episodic things |
Reply to thewiru
@tchitchouan
I mean, I haven't watched it's sequel, so technically I'm already treating it as that, and it isn't making stuff any better.
I guess what I should've said is that the movie seems to rely a lot in it's aesthetics and stuff, which doesn't really hit me since we've all been over-exposed to them in the 30 years since it's release.
I mean, I haven't watched it's sequel, so technically I'm already treating it as that, and it isn't making stuff any better.
I guess what I should've said is that the movie seems to rely a lot in it's aesthetics and stuff, which doesn't really hit me since we've all been over-exposed to them in the 30 years since it's release.
thewiru said: I guess what I should've said is that the movie seems to rely a lot in it's aesthetics and stuff, which doesn't really hit me since we've all been over-exposed to them in the 30 years since it's release. The solution is to watch something with aesthetics you like. |
| その目だれの目？ |
thewiru said: Yesterday I had a bit of free time, so I watched Koukaku Kidoutai. Granted, people post so much shit about it online that I had probably watched half of it from small cuts, videos and screencaps alone. It was... OK, I guess, 7/10. My problem is that it is a movie mostly about making you feel things, and I'm kinda bad with those. When it comes to anime, I feel that I'm better with remembering "story beats" (Recently I made some posts about scenes that were original from Nomad's anime and weren't in the manga, and how they left an impression on me. In that case it was easy for me, because it's just the story of the anime which I can remember at any time. It's a bit harder with Koukaku Kidoutai, because I only had feelings for it while I was watching it, didn't know why I did, nor can I remember the scenes. Considering that the plot is very short, it likely wasn't it. Likewise, I didn't feel much for the 3-4 times there are long montages with "Making of a Cyborg" playing. If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it? Don’t beat yourself up, "Ghost in the Shell" was never meant to be remembered like a checklist of plot points. If you walked away with just a mood stuck in your head, that means it worked exactly as intended. Honestly, the way "Ghost in the Shell" was produced fits Oshii’s brooding, atmospheric style way more than Shirow’s playful, info-dump-heavy storytelling. That’s why it feels like a mood piece more than a beat-by-beat plot, it’s Oshii doing Oshii. Personally I enjoy shit like "Black Magic M-66" or even the original "Appleseed" better. |
 |
| The 1995 anime is Blade Runner tailored on Western audiences receptive to the christian crap the ex-priest Mamoru Oshii so much likes because of his christian past (if you didn't get it, I'm a debaptized atheist). An empty technical marvel more than anything, like it's typical from the director. The 1989 manga is 100 times better, the only manga I prefer to any anime ever produced from it and the only one of which I have a first print copy of the TP in japanese. If you want to pass your time on christian imagery there are better choices from Japan. Mostly stylistical (like in KR Geats and in the Super Sentais) with sparse exceptions (the original Urutoraman and Urutora Seben) but better than that movie ever was. |
ProudElitistSep 19, 7:16 AM
Reply to ColourWheel
thewiru said:
Yesterday I had a bit of free time, so I watched Koukaku Kidoutai.
Granted, people post so much shit about it online that I had probably watched half of it from small cuts, videos and screencaps alone.
It was... OK, I guess, 7/10.
My problem is that it is a movie mostly about making you feel things, and I'm kinda bad with those.
When it comes to anime, I feel that I'm better with remembering "story beats" (Recently I made some posts about scenes that were original from Nomad's anime and weren't in the manga, and how they left an impression on me. In that case it was easy for me, because it's just the story of the anime which I can remember at any time.
It's a bit harder with Koukaku Kidoutai, because I only had feelings for it while I was watching it, didn't know why I did, nor can I remember the scenes. Considering that the plot is very short, it likely wasn't it. Likewise, I didn't feel much for the 3-4 times there are long montages with "Making of a Cyborg" playing.
If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it?
Yesterday I had a bit of free time, so I watched Koukaku Kidoutai.
Granted, people post so much shit about it online that I had probably watched half of it from small cuts, videos and screencaps alone.
It was... OK, I guess, 7/10.
My problem is that it is a movie mostly about making you feel things, and I'm kinda bad with those.
When it comes to anime, I feel that I'm better with remembering "story beats" (Recently I made some posts about scenes that were original from Nomad's anime and weren't in the manga, and how they left an impression on me. In that case it was easy for me, because it's just the story of the anime which I can remember at any time.
It's a bit harder with Koukaku Kidoutai, because I only had feelings for it while I was watching it, didn't know why I did, nor can I remember the scenes. Considering that the plot is very short, it likely wasn't it. Likewise, I didn't feel much for the 3-4 times there are long montages with "Making of a Cyborg" playing.
If this is a learned skill, how do I get better at it?
Don’t beat yourself up, "Ghost in the Shell" was never meant to be remembered like a checklist of plot points. If you walked away with just a mood stuck in your head, that means it worked exactly as intended.
Honestly, the way "Ghost in the Shell" was produced fits Oshii’s brooding, atmospheric style way more than Shirow’s playful, info-dump-heavy storytelling. That’s why it feels like a mood piece more than a beat-by-beat plot, it’s Oshii doing Oshii.
Personally I enjoy shit like "Black Magic M-66" or even the original "Appleseed" better.
ColourWheel said: Personally I enjoy shit like "Black Magic M-66" or even the original "Appleseed" better. I only liked 1 scene from Ghost in the Shell. I wished someone would expand that scene into a full series. Finally, someone did. https://myanimelist.net/anime/37522/Pet |
LucifrostSep 19, 8:34 AM
| その目だれの目？ |
| the movie is ass because oshii worked on it, he's a prick who destroyed the manga. If you want a good anime, then go watch Ghost in the Shell SAC |
    |
Lucifrost said: I only liked 1 scene from Ghost in the Shell. I wished someone would develop that scene into a full series. Finally, someone did. https://myanimelist.net/anime/37522/Pet Sound like if the Nolan created an “Inception" like film that was darker, more intimate, and instead about toxic emotional relationships instead of a slick heist. lol |
|
Reply to thewiru
MelodyOfMemory said:
Go take a media course or something so you can learn something actually useful.
Go take a media course or something so you can learn something actually useful.
OK, how/where can I do this?
Genuine question.
| @thewiru You're a grown adult with Internet access. Go look up what your university or community centre is offering, whether online or in person. |
| You don't, you should watch everything for the plot, including hentai. |
| It's not a learned skill, there, thread over. You want a more "story focused" take on GITS, go watch Stand Alone Complex boom. Trying to "re-educate" yourself to simply like certain media is stupid. I didn't like Akira and FLCL and I got over it. If you gave it a 7, you still enjoyed the film, maybe not as much as me however, why does that matter? Honestly it's more interesting when people don't give the same standard scores, to all the praised media out there, even if it's a work I personally really like. As long as it's a respectful back and forth, I wouldn't mind talking to someone who thinks LOTGH is mid/bad. |
BilboBaggins365Sep 19, 8:44 AM
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