What is the worth of Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind?
It is made of excellence and deserves to be on our Enlightenment list.
36.0%
9
It is too unremarkable to be on either of our lists.
48.0%
12
It is vastly overrated and deserves to be on our Relations list.
4.0%
1
I have not seen this movie but damn that English title sounds better.
12.0%
3
25 votes
| Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind is now up for vote. Decide if it saves the forests of Enlightenment or if it will get run over by giant bugs in our Relations. Please remember that with the new voting system ONLY YOUR WRITTEN RESPONSE WILL BE COUNTED. Be sure to clearly state which option you chose at the top of your post or else your vote will not be counted. You must also provide a brief explanation for why you chose the answer you did. AT THE TOP OF YOUR POSTS. THE TOP. NOT SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OR AT THE END. THE TOP. STATE YOUR VOTE. We need this for counting purposes later on. PLEASE DO NOT VOTE IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE ENTIRE SERIES. This poll will close in 7 days. BEGIN! |
Ducat_RevelMay 26, 2013 8:05 PM
| Option 2 This anime is not bad but the manga is really far better, so I think only the manga should be on the list. When watching the movie it seemed to me that I was watching an episode of a cancelled adaptation of the manga, or a one shot chapter of a manga made before making the real thing. I guess my opinion is biased since I watched it not much time after reading the manga. Feel free to not count my opinion. I may try to rewatch it now that I've forgot the content of the manga... edit : what have I done... I hope I didn't make others for for unremarkable because of this post, I thought I would be the only one saying that |
shiranui51May 21, 2013 1:50 PM
| Option 2 or option 3? That is the question (while I'm holding a skull)! Let's be #2 for the sake of justice. Personal gripes: 1) the message was extremely forced (yeah, defending the nature is a good thing, but they carried too far...), 2) didn't really care for Nausicaä and her "I alone will fix everything" character (thus, she was pretty much Mary Sueish as someone has said before), 3) the cheesy "everything is super okay now" end via deus-ex-machina (which reminded me of the category-Z Disney stuffs). Yeah... |
Use your brain before using your keyboard!  |
| Yeah probably best I rewatch this rather soon... Hopefully I won't be blinded by nostalgia. |
 Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
| Option 2 I am grateful to this movie, since this is part of what allowed Studio Ghibli to take form. But as a movie it's not quite enlightening. It takes the environmental message to the point where nature is portrayed as pure good and man as just base and unworthy. I thought something similar was done much better in Princess Mononoke, which still wasn't very subtle. The adaptation into movie form reminds me of Akira, since condensing the manga didn't do it many favors. All in all, it's an iconic film, but not a must-see unless you're a big Miyazaki fan, and he's done much better stuff. |
| I'll go with Option 2. I really liked the movie when I saw it. I think it's one of Ghibli's better films, but yeah, the nature message was a bit too much for me. I also keep hearing the manga is way better, but I have not read it. I'm not sure I will at the moment. It's a well done film for sure, but the third act doesn't really do the movie justice to the whole nature thing. |
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| Option 2 Let me start of by saying this is probably my favorite Miyazaki film. That being said, I think it is dripping with mistakes. But let's start with a positive note. I have nothing against the environmental message of the story. True, it was grotesquely didactic, but it was a much needed thematic stress. The stories message isn't interwoven into the plot as IT IS the plot. There's a true sense of organic unity when it comes to Nausicaa's themes. Heck, I'd dare to say it does theme handling better than Princess Mononoke. But that's really all it has going for it. Nausicaa pales in comparison to its manga counterpart, due to its plotting and characters. The characters in this film are extremely one-dimensional which is odd since Miyazaki usually has some pretty strong female leads. All the characters serve their roles mechanically, with near to no distinct personality (bar Nausicaa and Kurotowa). And even the ones with some personality are forced to walk in a straight line development wise. Nausicaa and Kushana are the worst characters in this show because they were the clearest puppets to the story, taking up forced actions just to progress the story in such an inorganic way. The plot was a badly handled mess. The whole man vs nature thing boiled down to man pricking nature's small toe and nature throwing a sissy fit because of it. The villains (mainly Kushana) were so flat, I couldn't take them seriously. The entire hubris leads to downfall things is getting really old. If adapted and played around with, the formula could still be fresh, but if used as is, it just looks stale and uninspired. And the ending. Oh god the ending. It ends halfway through volume two of the manga. Talked about rushed and anti-climactic. That being said, I enjoyed watching it. I tend to love the female leads in Miyazaki films, and even though she was flat and preachy, Nausicaa was definitely strong and respectable (she and Kushana are miles better in the manga though). It's a nice film, a classic that left its mark on history, but it's just too flawed to be considered Enlightening. |
| Option 1 This poll isn't about the manga. It's about the anime and whether or not it is as good as the rest of our list. Yes, it deserves to be on the Enlightenment list. It's Miyazaki so the directing, characters, art and animation are all superb and stand up even in today's world. Pretty much what Yukari said. |
| @missyukari Alright, most of what I said can be taken away from the comparisons to the manga (bar my small insubstantial rant on the ending and a bit of the characterization). Stuff like the formula stagnation and the one-dimensionality can be taken as is. I wouldn't compare it to any other Miyazaki film, since (excluding the female leads) I'm not a big fan of Miyazaki. When it comes to Ghibli, I'm more of a Takahata guy. In fact, I hold the unfavorable stand of not liking Princess Mononoke either, so I can't really think of any other comparison that'll do justice. If I were forced to compare the two environment heavy films, it'd look like so: Nausicaa has better theme handling; Princess Mononoke has better characterization; both they're plots are overplotted (albeit Nausicaa is somewhat simpler and Princess Mononoke ends better). I still wouldn't throw my hat off to either films. If it's any consolation, I wouldn't swear the Akira film into our list either, but it already has a banner, so it receives immunity. |
Ducat_RevelMay 20, 2013 1:06 PM
| The first time I saw Nausicaa I'd never read the manga and I still found it awkward. I should add that I have no problem with the themes in Nausicaa, and they're hardly different from what Miyazaki puts in his other films. I think the reason people keep comparing it to the manga is that it doesn't have enough runtime to make everything work well, and it goes for developing the themes rather than the story. You can make a statement with a work of art, but to me Nausicaa ends up feeling more like a PSA than a fantasy epic. Off topic: I honestly don't know where I would put the Akira movie, but I definitely think the manga belongs on the list. |
| I remember that when I didn't really liked the movie I watched it on a bad tv screen with bad french dubs, I also had fresh memories of the manga. I watched it again today in english dub, IT'S GREAT, my opinion was biased, I still prefer the manga but the anime is very good in its own way particularly because of the beautiful music and animation. I CHANGE MY VOTE TO OPTION 1 ! |
shiranui51May 21, 2013 2:23 PM
| Option 2 - Unremarkable As someone who has never read the manga, I base my opinion solely off of how this piece stands up as a movie. Nausicaa is a good film, with great animation and an interesting story, but it doesn't use that story as fully as it could have. The themes of nature=good, man=corruption are much more roughly implanted in this movie than most of Miyazaki's other fantastic works. They take up too much of the energy and leave other portions of the movie drained of depth. Nausicaa herself is an idealistic character, who doesn't really feel human. She is a goddess descended to earth to try and heal this broken planet and make peace with the enraged insects. If they had embraced this actual truth, and fleshed out this perfect characterization it could have lead to something more than a Mary Sue. As it stands though, she is not an interesting person, because she lacks human faults, desires, or wrongdoings. The supporting cast isn't bad, but they aren't the most memorable set of characters. The pacing is cramped, and it was obvious that a much bigger story needed to be told than what merely happened on screen. That being said, I would love to see that larger story, because at the times that it shown through I was really captivated. This movie has an amazing foundation, it's just in the climb upwards that it loses its magic. |
| Option 1 - Enlightening Yes, it isn't perfect. But I think that it should be added to our list because of it's beautiful score, amazing animation (which was hand drawn frame by frame) and great directing by Miyazaki. The themes can be a bit heavy handed and the characters are kinda two dimensional, but the story is engaging and well paced and the world is interesting.Even those somewhat two dimensional characters are really likable or very easy to hate, and the themes and messages can provoke emotion, despite their obvious flaws. It takes real skill in directing to take something that could easily feel like a pretentious mess in anyone's hand and turn it into an excellent movie, whose problems you only start to realize after you saw the film. |
| option 1- enlightening The animation and the musical score are the highlights of this animation, and it has an interesting story and powerful message. I can see why people are saying it's not perfect, but is anything on the enlightenment list really without flaws? |
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| I believe we are 5 and 5 thus far. Shall be interesting. Again though I want to re-iterate- Do not compare it to the manga. Compare it to the other anime on our list. |
Matthew-san said: Option 1 - Enlightening Yes, it isn't perfect. But I think that it should be added to our list because of it's beautiful score, amazing animation (which was hand drawn frame by frame) and great directing by Miyazaki. The themes can be a bit heavy handed and the characters are kinda two dimensional, but the story is engaging and well paced and the world is interesting.Even those somewhat two dimensional characters are really likable or very easy to hate, and the themes and messages can provoke emotion, despite their obvious flaws. It takes real skill in directing to take something that could easily feel like a pretentious mess in anyone's hand and turn it into an excellent movie, whose problems you only start to realize after you saw the film. |
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| Option 2 Most of the others who mentioned option 2 as their choice have already said what I would say for the most part. This is just my opinion but I wasn't as captivated by this movie as much as I was in terms of other Miyazaki films. Although I have never read the manga, I have heard from many that it is way better and I think I will give it a try to see for myself. But overall, its just not as memorable. |
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| I'd say a 1 for the manga, definitely, but I just felt the anime came off as a quick summary missing out on so much of the major developments and themes. Obviously it's hard to judge it standalone when I read the manga first, but even if I could, I don't think I would have given it more than a 7 or something, it's got great animation, a interesting setting and all, but the characters and story just doesn't amount to that much. So option 2. |
| Hey Baman, just a quick reminder: Ducat_Revel said: Be sure to clearly state which option you chose at the top of your post or else your vote will not be counted. AT THE TOP OF YOUR POSTS. THE TOP. NOT SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE OR AT THE END. THE TOP. STATE YOUR VOTE. |
| Option 2 Oh, missed that. |
| Option 2. I have not read the manga and I don't need to compare it to any other thing. While this movie has good environmental message and themes they came to me as its 100% humen kind fault and other side was 100% pure but at the same time NAUSICAA is too perfect in everything.Ending itself feel silly to me. |
| Option 1 Although I was the one who suggested this one, in retrospect I had doubts about its inclusion myself, so I had to think it over a bit before voting. Hayao Miyazaki was able to create a living world on its own with Nausicaa as he does with many of his movies, and I must admit he is very good at it. It's not easy to do world-building in less than two hours screen time, and to me it is ALWAYS a plus when a writer does this. Not only it helps the viewers' immersion in the story, but also supports the characters by knowing their beliefs, culture, and reason why they act in a certain way. This movie is full of symbols, from how the world came to be to the very simple fact that Nausicaa is a girl. The symbolism is not heavy and helps the theming by adding one extra layer of depth to a somewhat simple story. The theming is somewhat heavy and I have to agree with that but it's probably this straightforwardness that made me love this movie more than any other miyazaki film I watched. The message is simple yet powerful and in my opinion, if you don't overthink too much, it works. I haven't read the manga yet, so I can't compare media, but I think the Nausicaa movie is very good as a standalone and classic from the 80s. Not many anime do what this movie does and I believe this movie to be relevant in the medium, therefore I can't help but deem it enlightening. |
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| I don’t know if I’m too late but I’ll vote anyways. Option 1 It has quite a few flaws that were mentioned before like being preachy, being weak compared to the manga ( not that I read it), it feels a bit rushed and everything is a bit flat. But on the other hand Nausicaa is very good at conveying feelings in some parts and, compared to Mononoke, it doesn’t feel that preachy. It also aged very well, animation and sound can compete with current productions. I also liked the world-building. Nausicaa isn’t even one of my favourites anime (it’s very far away from being one) but it’s something like a classic of anime. |
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| I still need to think about it. I don't want to overload the list with too much Miyazaki. |
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DrunkenBlowfish said: 'I still need to think about it. I don't want to overload the list with too much Miyazaki. This is a silly statement. I'm not even sure how to properly respond to it. =/ If something is good enough to be on the list then it goes on the list, regardless of how many other works by that director/studio/author/whatever are or are not on there. Miyazaki is superior to pretty much all anime, hands down, so I don't see how one can have 'too much' of him on the list. He is also the only thing saving anime from having just an absysmally negative view among non-anime-fans here in the states. |
AmberlehMay 25, 2013 2:13 PM
| Option 2 Of the works I've seen from Miyazaki, this is my least favorite. I don't know, maybe I just watched it at a bad time but the overall message and what it tried to accomplish did nothing for me. It was simply too heavy handed, and I find myself disagreeing with some previous posters, as I found Princess Mononoke to do a similar theme without being over bearing and doing a better job of showing the positives and negatives of both sides of the conflict. That said, this is an influential movie that played a huge role in the formation of Ghibli. So, it wouldn't really bother me to see this on the enlightenment list. Amberleh said: DrunkenBlowfish said: 'I still need to think about it. I don't want to overload the list with too much Miyazaki. This is a silly statement. I'm not even sure how to properly respond to it. =/ If something is good enough to be on the list then it goes on the list, regardless of how many other works by that director/studio/author/whatever are or are not on there. Miyazaki is superior to pretty much all anime, hands down, so I don't see how one can have 'too much' of him on the list. He is also the only thing saving anime from having just an absysmally negative view among non-anime-fans here in the states. As a guy who definitely isn't a huge fan of Miyazaki by any means (I much prefer Takahata's body of work for one), I definitely disagree with him being "hands down superior to pretty much all anime". I feel you are discrediting a lot of very talented directors/creators by saying this. I agree that his presence is a positive when comes to outside opinion of anime, though. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Option 1 First would like to address the point being brought up about it falls short of the manga, when reviewing an anime with regards to all anime it is irrelevant how it stacks up to its manga counterpart. A good example of this in today's pop culture (well I guess a few years ago) would be Lord of the Rings, they were highly acclaimed, and rightly so, but I would say that the original books were still better, does this mean that the movies were "bad"? No ... There are many constraints that are placed on adaptations especially of a single movie that is the adaptation of a 7 volume manga ... But the point is this is supposed to be an objective look at how the anime stacks up to other anime, NOT how well of an adaptation it was. As for why option 1, I am a huge fan of Miyazaki's works and love how fantastical the "worlds" he makes within his movies are. I would say that my vote probably does contain some levels of bias though so I can't really act like a saint here, but even after accepting this bias I still feel compelled to state that many of Miyazaki's works are truly amazing and a "must" on any list that contains all "enlightening anime". Amberleh said: Would agree that it is not exactly wise to rule out any anime from this list strictly because there are too many by the director ... Saying he is "superior to pretty much all anime, hands down" however might be worded a little too strongly, I wouldn't disagree with a statement like "Miyazaki's works are better than the majority of anime", but again, also love Miyazaki so this is somewhat biased (though being better than the majority of anime once you remember just how many mediocre anime their are, actually isn't too objectionable of a statement either). The last part is definitely agreeable though, Miyazaki's films are pretty much the only anime you can say you love without being labeled an anime watching nerd or getting funny looks. In fact if you say "Spirited Away was my favorite movie growing up" alot of people will agree and go "Oh, I loved that movie" ... Whereas you mention watching Naruto and they will just roll their eyes.DrunkenBlowfish said: 'I still need to think about it. I don't want to overload the list with too much Miyazaki. This is a silly statement. I'm not even sure how to properly respond to it. =/ If something is good enough to be on the list then it goes on the list, regardless of how many other works by that director/studio/author/whatever are or are not on there. Miyazaki is superior to pretty much all anime, hands down, so I don't see how one can have 'too much' of him on the list. He is also the only thing saving anime from having just an absysmally negative view among non-anime-fans here in the states. |
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| Option 1 missyukari said: DrunkenBlowfish said: I still need to think about it. I don't want to overload the list with too much Miyazaki. Satoshi Kon has 5 titles on the list, which I think is everything he directed. At the moment, Miyazaki has only one more than Kon, even though Miyazaki's filmography is bigger, and much better IMO. A fine point. You've swayed me. I cannot overlook Miyazaki's deserving place in this list, and though I do still feel the need to restrict the list to a small handful of his work. I've decided to extent Nausicaa to fit into that handful. |
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missyukari said: DrunkenBlowfish said: I still need to think about it. I don't want to overload the list with too much Miyazaki. Satoshi Kon has 5 titles on the list, which I think is everything he directed. At the moment, Miyazaki has only one more than Kon, even though Miyazaki's filmography is bigger, and much better IMO. I don't think discrediting Kon makes for a very good excuse to induct Miyazaki. His films should be judged as is by their own merits. Like you said, Miyazaki already has 1 over Kon, and if I can build on that, 3 over Oshii and 4 over Takahata and Yuasa. I'm not saying we're inducting his works just because he's got his name on it, but maybe that's swaying a few opinions. |
Ducat_RevelMay 25, 2013 11:34 PM
Ducat_Revel said: I wouldn't necessarily agree with this, it would be right to say that my opinion is swayed in favor of a work done by Miyazaki but it is important to consider what a work done by Miyazaki means ... Many of his works have very similar (I mean this very loosely since they are also rather unique, especially in setting) atmospheres, especially his fantasies go over the top in creating a very interesting world. I'm not saying we're inducting his works just because he's got his name on it, but maybe that's swaying a few opinions. Not sure if I made my point clear, pulled an all nighter so can't be as clear as I would like to be but basically - Miyazaki's works all have a certain level of quality to them, so I am attracted to works w/ his name on it but that is because his works all contain a similar atmosphere, (by this I mean, when watching a Miyazaki film, it is very obvious it is a Miyazaki film), and since I like this atmosphere then I am going to favor his other works which contain the same atmosphere ... So they sway my opinion, but there is a solid reason as to why they sway my opinion. Basically I am not in favor of his works due to something like "brand loyalty", the ones he did right though, I feel he did right, (for example I won't jump on a Ponyo bandwagon) |
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| For me, this isn't anything about being a Miyazaki title, or a good or bad adaptation. I just think that as a movie, it's below Enlightenment. Will I be too broken up about it if this thing gets on the list? No. It's still very good. I do however, feel that it rests inferior to many of the titles that have previously set the standard for what an Enlightening anime is. I know it's been really close so far, which I knew would happen, but it seems that Nausicaa will ever so slightly grab Enlightenment which is a shame. |
| With 10 votes for Enlightening and 9 votes for Unremarkable, I close the Nausicaa poll. Thank you for voting. BUT, next time, I won't count a changed vote unless it is located AT THE TOP of the comment. |
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