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NeonDZ said: Tsukumo_Yuuma said: Gou Rika thought she knew the rules and that the same rules still apply, she said that in ep2. In Matsuribayashi she talks to Irie/Tomitake/Ooishi way before the festival, then she talks to her friends about it, if she thought the same rules still exist why would she do nothing until someone starts to get paranoid and/or try to stop the paranoia, the first thing she should've tried was the same things that she did in Matsuri but then she realizes that the rules have changed(and a lot of people (me included) thought that we'll see that in the 2nd-cour, but then we discovers that she did nothing, because.... reasons), until Nekodamashi she didn't know anything about the change that happened to Takano when that should've been her top priority in the first 3 loops when she thought the same rules exist. The Irie clinic closes and the people related to the conspiracy start leaving while Rika is still alive in Onidamashi, we just don't get her reaction to any of that (and obviously she didn't get Takano's talk about giving up until Nekodamashi). She needs to get ready before the festival, so it still extremely out of character for her to not do anything before it. Even in arc 2 when she snaps at Keiichi she says "Takano and Tomitake area already dead", which doesn't make sense. Nothing about her behaviors make sense, as far she knows Takano is still the big bad and she doesn't bother to investigate it or anything until the very latest arc. Of course even if she suspected Takano wasn't the big bad, she knows she needs her friends to conquer whatever fate throws at her. Her first action in Oni and Wata should have been to tell her friends the truth and put together a counter plan. I mean, she dies immediately after the festival, if she's not getting ready /before/ it, when is she getting ready? She acts like she doesn't know the rules have changed (She warns Keiichi and gives Mion the doll) but at the same time she knows the rules have changed but she snaps when Mion goes insane? Which is it? |
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NeonDZ said: Tsukumo_Yuuma said: Gou Rika thought she knew the rules and that the same rules still apply, she said that in ep2. In Matsuribayashi she talks to Irie/Tomitake/Ooishi way before the festival, then she talks to her friends about it, if she thought the same rules still exist why would she do nothing until someone starts to get paranoid and/or try to stop the paranoia, the first thing she should've tried was the same things that she did in Matsuri but then she realizes that the rules have changed(and a lot of people (me included) thought that we'll see that in the 2nd-cour, but then we discovers that she did nothing, because.... reasons), until Nekodamashi she didn't know anything about the change that happened to Takano when that should've been her top priority in the first 3 loops when she thought the same rules exist. The Irie clinic closes and the people related to the conspiracy start leaving while Rika is still alive in Onidamashi, we just don't get her reaction to any of that (and obviously she didn't get Takano's talk about giving up until Nekodamashi). The clinic always goes through some changes when Takano and Tomitake "die" (she's stupid enough to keep thinking that even in Watadamashi (when she talk to K1), 2 loops in this new rules and she still thinks that Tomitake dies like usual and still doesn't do anything to try and stop it from happening). There's ZERO indication that she somehow knew that Tomitake actually doesn't die this time and that Takano isn't involved, and she doesn't try to question it until Nekodamashi. (and i don't get you saying "she doesn't get Takano's talk about giving up until Nekodamashi", that's THE problem, why did she try to approach Tomitake only in Nekodamashi?) |
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Jin_uzuki said: NeonDZ said: The Irie clinic closes and the people related to the conspiracy start leaving while Rika is still alive in Onidamashi, we just don't get her reaction to any of that (and obviously she didn't get Takano's talk about giving up until Nekodamashi). She needs to get ready before the festival, so it still extremely out of character for her to not do anything before it. Even in arc 2 when she snaps at Keiichi she says "Takano and Tomitake area already dead", which doesn't make sense. Nothing about her behaviors make sense, as far she knows Takano is still the big bad and she doesn't bother to investigate it or anything until the very latest arc. Of course even if she suspected Takano wasn't the big bad, she knows she needs her friends to conquer whatever fate throws at her. Her first action in Oni and Wata should have been to tell her friends the truth and put together a counter plan. I mean, she dies immediately after the festival, if she's not getting ready /before/ it, when is she getting ready? She acts like she doesn't know the rules have changed (She warns Keiichi and gives Mion the doll) but at the same time she knows the rules have changed but she snaps when Mion goes insane? Which is it? It's hard to say since we don't get her point of view there. She probably learned about the clinic closing before Keiichi since she actually goes there often. We're going back to those early stories in Sotsu, so we might actually get to see her reactions there. |
| A Jin_uzuki said: NeonDZ said: The Irie clinic closes and the people related to the conspiracy start leaving while Rika is still alive in Onidamashi, we just don't get her reaction to any of that (and obviously she didn't get Takano's talk about giving up until Nekodamashi). She needs to get ready before the festival, so it still extremely out of character for her to not do anything before it. Even in arc 2 when she snaps at Keiichi she says "Takano and Tomitake area already dead", which doesn't make sense. Nothing about her behaviors make sense, as far she knows Takano is still the big bad and she doesn't bother to investigate it or anything until the very latest arc. Of course even if she suspected Takano wasn't the big bad, she knows she needs her friends to conquer whatever fate throws at her. Her first action in Oni and Wata should have been to tell her friends the truth and put together a counter plan. I mean, she dies immediately after the festival, if she's not getting ready /before/ it, when is she getting ready? She acts like she doesn't know the rules have changed (She warns Keiichi and gives Mion the doll) but at the same time she knows the rules have changed so she snaps when Mion goes insane? Which is it? Also from Her persepective last time she looped Hanyuu was loosing her powers and couldnt keep up the loops anymore. Since Fragment Hanyuu doesnt say otherwise. Id say Rika should still think her loops are limited. The fact that she spend a multitude of loops not doing much is very Bizzare. Forget the club, she NEVER warns Tomitake (and Irie). If he dies Rikas chances of beating the Yamainu take a stratospheric nosedive to the point of being impossible. The club members can only delay the Yamainu, theu cant beat them. |
NeonDZ said: Jin_uzuki said: She needs to get ready before the festival, so it still extremely out of character for her to not do anything before it. Even in arc 2 when she snaps at Keiichi she says "Takano and Tomitake area already dead", which doesn't make sense. Nothing about her behaviors make sense, as far she knows Takano is still the big bad and she doesn't bother to investigate it or anything until the very latest arc. Of course even if she suspected Takano wasn't the big bad, she knows she needs her friends to conquer whatever fate throws at her. Her first action in Oni and Wata should have been to tell her friends the truth and put together a counter plan. I mean, she dies immediately after the festival, if she's not getting ready /before/ it, when is she getting ready? She acts like she doesn't know the rules have changed (She warns Keiichi and gives Mion the doll) but at the same time she knows the rules have changed but she snaps when Mion goes insane? Which is it? It's hard to say since we don't get her point of view there. She probably learned about the clinic closing before Keiichi since she actually goes there often. We're going back to those early stories in Sotsu, so we might actually get to see her reactions there. dude, we don't need her POV, we've seen enough from her in Nekodamashi. She thinks that Tomitake still dies and we know that from Watadamashi. that's why she tried to talk to him in Nekodamashi THEN she discovers that Takano isn't involved this time :0, she only tries that after what? 8 loops? (counting the crazy Nekodamashi loops). |
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Tsukumo_Yuuma said: NeonDZ said: It's hard to say since we don't get her point of view there. She probably learned about the clinic closing before Keiichi since she actually goes there often. We're going back to those early stories in Sotsu, so we might actually get to see her reactions there. dude, we don't need her POV, we've seen enough from her in Nekodamashi. She thinks that Tomitake still dies and we know that from Watadamashi. that's why she tried to talk to him in Nekodamashi THEN she discovers that Takano isn't involved this time :0, she only tries that after what? 8 loops? (counting the crazy Nekodamashi loops). She doesn't know why the conspiracy breaks down before Nekodamashi, but she should know that it breaks down somehow (and acts like it, since like you say there she does nothing about it at all). We haven't seen what's her initial reaction to that. Maybe for some reason she does think Takano is killed for real in the Damashi worlds. You just seem to be assuming that the writers messed up even though now it's confirmed we're getting Answer arcs, which would make the lack of planning for Rika really odd, if that's really an issue. |
NeonDZMar 19, 2021 5:08 AM
Tsukumo_Yuuma said: ssjokg said: It isnt about what would happen but what could happen. If for whatever reason Takono were to look through that album then that would be it but somehow in thousands of loops she didnt. Lets see. -Friendship being a toxic relationship. -Power of bonds being changed to power of some omnipotent being. -Rika's torture and effort being meaningless because the main villain was one photo album away from giving up. -Rika's victory means she just ends up in a new loop. -Rika's character in Gou is like that of Rika in the first arcs of OG, even tho the Rika we see in ep2 is post Matsuri Rika. That's the only way for this story to work. I agree with some of your points (specifically Rika's character in the first arcs and Satoko's character) but the point about the OG's friendship message being destroyed is weird tbh, it's still kinda that here. In the OG the first loops/tragedies happen because one them starts doubting the others and/or miscommunication and things like that, here the loops happen because Satoko started doubting Rika and doesn't talk to her about her problems and blah blah (yeah i know it's very weird after Minagoroshi that Satoko should have some memories of, like other characters in Matsuribayashi). So anyway i think it's mirroring what happened in the OG question arcs, then in answer arcs/Sotsu they will get to talk and understand each other in the end or some shit, and be super duper friends again. Takano's change isn't that bad too tbh, Matsuribayashi happened only once at the end of Rika's journey so there was no chance of her having those flashbacks in Rika's 100 years (and Eua implied that what happens here is because her powers are too sTronG). As you said a few bad dreams/nightmares wouldn't have shaken Takano so they had no choice but to use her grandpa somehow anyway, what happened to make her find that message is a combination between the dreams + Nomura's talking to her (because she now got that she's just using her and doesn't care about Hifumi or the research (in the OG she assumed that was the case anyway but here she had her doubts kinda confirmed). Gou could have used the parallel with the OG's friendship but the problem is that Satoko isnt just paranoid like Keichi, Rena or Shion. For the sake of the argument I will ignore Irie's diagnosis and will assume Satoko is still at least L3. What she does is the opposite of what happened in the OG. Satoko isnt really doubting Rika(I mean what Satoko thinks is kinda true from her pov) but instead takes her "love" to absurd unhinged levels. Instead of being paranoid about her own safety, it is obsession that drives her. That's why it is turned from a bond that saves them to something dark. And if she really doesnt have HS anymore(at least her sea of fragment self) then this is even worse. Like with the rest of Gou this may have been better if the execution was handled differently. I dont know what others think about it but Rebellion NeonDZ said: YEs they were "miracles" brought to them by their own struggle and bonds.Tsukumo_Yuuma said: Gou Rika thought she knew the rules and that the same rules still apply, she said that in ep2. In Matsuribayashi she talks to Irie/Tomitake/Ooishi way before the festival, then she talks to her friends about it, if she thought the same rules still exist why would she do nothing until someone starts to get paranoid and/or try to stop the paranoia, the first thing she should've tried was the same things that she did in Matsuri but then she realizes that the rules have changed(and a lot of people (me included) thought that we'll see that in the 2nd-cour, but then we discovers that she did nothing, because.... reasons), until Nekodamashi she didn't know anything about the change that happened to Takano when that should've been her top priority in the first 3 loops when she thought the same rules exist. The Irie clinic closes and the people related to the conspiracy start leaving while Rika is still alive in Onidamashi, we just don't get her reaction to any of that (and obviously she didn't get Takano's talk about giving up until Nekodamashi). ssjokg said: No indication that it was Hanyuu's power that made them remember. Making up new powers and plot devices AFTER nearly 20 years is some major bullshit. They were just "miracles" without explanation - they did inspire the connecting fragments though, which was Hanyuu/Bern's power. It's not like it's even retconning an existing explanation. Just because a writer can use "gaps" in explanations to write whatever in the far future doesnt mean they should. |
ssjokg said: YEs they were "miracles" brought to them by their own struggle and bonds. Just because a writer can use "gaps" in explanations to write whatever in the far future doesnt mean they should. Like I said though, the connecting fragments were based on those miracles, so it already had been turned into a mechanic in the original Higurashi VN. |
NeonDZ said: Tsukumo_Yuuma said: dude, we don't need her POV, we've seen enough from her in Nekodamashi. She thinks that Tomitake still dies and we know that from Watadamashi. that's why she tried to talk to him in Nekodamashi THEN she discovers that Takano isn't involved this time :0, she only tries that after what? 8 loops? (counting the crazy Nekodamashi loops). she should know that it breaks down somehow (and acts like it, since like you say there she does nothing about it at all). But there's zero indication that she actually know that the conspiracy "breaks down" , the only interaction between her and Tomitake in Onidamashi is that she headpats him and does nothing, in Watadamashi she thinks he's dead for real, then in Tatari she tried to ask about him AFTER the festival. We get her thoughts in Nekodamashi and she knew nothing and didn't even try to know, she would've talked about it with Hanyuu after Ooishi killed her if she knew anything, she talked about the differences between the old and new fragments there. |
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Tsukumo_Yuuma said: NeonDZ said: she should know that it breaks down somehow (and acts like it, since like you say there she does nothing about it at all). But there's zero indication that she actually know that the conspiracy "breaks down" , the only interaction between her and Tomitake in Onidamashi is that she headpats him and does nothing, in Watadamashi she thinks he's dead for real, then in Tatari she tried to ask about him AFTER the festival. We get her thoughts in Nekodamashi and she knew nothing and didn't even try to know, she would've talked about it with Hanyuu after Ooishi killed her if she knew anything, she talked about the differences between the old and new fragments there. The conspiracy breaks down so visibly in Onidamashi that someone like Keiichi, who knows nothing about it, could see the people leaving. Yes, we get no reaction from Rika, but she clearly wasn't going after the conspiracy people at that point. We also know that we're getting Answer arcs. So, in spite of all that, you think it's all just convenient coincidences caused by random careless writing and none of those loose ends will be tied in the upcoming arcs? She doesn't bring up the conspiracy to Hanyuu because she knows she wasn't killed by it. We're also seemingly getting more Hanyuu scenes in Sotsu (and she doesn't have the shinning mark on her horn unlike in her last Gou appearance), which points even more to Gou not giving the full picture of Rika's point of view. |
NeonDZ said: ssjokg said: YEs they were "miracles" brought to them by their own struggle and bonds. Just because a writer can use "gaps" in explanations to write whatever in the far future doesnt mean they should. Like I said though, the connecting fragments were based on those miracles, so it already had been turned into a mechanic in the original Higurashi VN. Nothing about this makes it a power of Hanyuu or Eua. The fragments exist even without them. This is why it is treated as a "deja vu" because they do happen even without a looper. |
NeonDZ said: Nekodamashi Rika shows that she doesnt know a thing when she goes to talk to Tomitake.Tsukumo_Yuuma said: But there's zero indication that she actually know that the conspiracy "breaks down" , the only interaction between her and Tomitake in Onidamashi is that she headpats him and does nothing, in Watadamashi she thinks he's dead for real, then in Tatari she tried to ask about him AFTER the festival. We get her thoughts in Nekodamashi and she knew nothing and didn't even try to know, she would've talked about it with Hanyuu after Ooishi killed her if she knew anything, she talked about the differences between the old and new fragments there. The conspiracy breaks down so visibly in Onidamashi that someone like Keiichi, who knows nothing about it, could see the people leaving. Yes, we get no reaction from Rika, but she clearly wasn't going after the conspiracy people at that point. We also know that we're getting Answer arcs. So, in spite of all that, you think it's all just convenient coincidences caused by random careless writing and none of those loose ends will be tied in the upcoming arcs? She doesn't bring up the conspiracy to Hanyuu because she knows she wasn't killed by it. We're also seemingly getting more Hanyuu scenes in Sotsu (and she doesn't have the shinning mark on her horn unlike in her last Gou appearance), which points even more to Gou not giving the full picture of Rika's point of view. If she knew nothing happens because of Takano why would she try NOW? And it isnt like she is worried about him, she still suspects Takano. According to her reaction, she never suspected that Takano would just give up. |
ssjokg said: NeonDZ said: Nekodamashi Rika shows that she doesnt know a thing when she goes to talk to Tomitake.The conspiracy breaks down so visibly in Onidamashi that someone like Keiichi, who knows nothing about it, could see the people leaving. Yes, we get no reaction from Rika, but she clearly wasn't going after the conspiracy people at that point. We also know that we're getting Answer arcs. So, in spite of all that, you think it's all just convenient coincidences caused by random careless writing and none of those loose ends will be tied in the upcoming arcs? She doesn't bring up the conspiracy to Hanyuu because she knows she wasn't killed by it. We're also seemingly getting more Hanyuu scenes in Sotsu (and she doesn't have the shinning mark on her horn unlike in her last Gou appearance), which points even more to Gou not giving the full picture of Rika's point of view. If she knew nothing happens because of Takano why would she try NOW? And it isnt like she is worried about him, she still suspects Takano. According to her reaction, she never suspected that Takano would just give up. Idk why it's so hard for him to see that she really didn't know anything, and just kept doing nothing for the plot to continue and make similar arcs to the OG. Even if she somehow knew after Onidamashi that it's not Takanoa and her group this time, why did she do nothing of what she did in Matsuri in Onidamashi? |
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pupul said: vegeta8639 said: i dont realy get the hate for gou and all this "ohh plot convenience this doesnt make sense ohh charachters change for no reason.Its all logical i mean just look at the higurashi reddit(they are actual fans of wtc not just some people who watched the first season of the shit deen anime 10 years ago and think they know shit)) they all love gou.Here is a post for u about the main chriticsm about satoko and gou form there https://www.reddit.com/r/Higurashinonakakoroni/comments/lxt45q/i_believe_satokos_actions_are_not_out_of/I still don't get this retarded finger snapping thing. Is that just symbolic and Satoko is actually killing herself each time or is it another convenient bullshit power that Satoko randomly gets because she walked into a shed one time? In either case, why doesn't she just know the code when she can apparently eavesdrop on any of the worlds to see things that neither her nor Rika originally saw? But instead we're suppose to accept that she what, guessed an 8 digit combination by trial and error which would only take around 100 million tries. I'm sure Satoko's mental fortitude was just that strong even though Rika almost went insane after a few thousand resets and the original story made a huge deal about a loopers mental state being worn down despite their physical bodies resetting. If there's a single thing that characterizes this entire season, it's plot convenience. Also asspulls and shitty character motivations. Just horrible writing all around. At this point they should have made another fanservice season like Kira with the new visuals and it would have been preferable to this shit. I watched the anime 3 times and played the visual novel so I don't know who the fuck you're talking to. Satoko's motivations in this season are SHIT. She's just a spoiled brat and one of the worst characters I've ever seen. And constantly having to rely on plot convenience because you don't know how to make your story work is also just bad writing. Satoko gets her powers just because. They work in a super convenient way where Satoko keep her memories while Rika doesn't just because. Satoko can sneak in to steal the H173 just because. The suitcase uses the super specific type of lock that Satoko's exact power makes it piss easy to open just because (instead of a regular lock/code that she wouldn't be able to open). Satoko randomly has a gun just because. None of this is good writing no matter how many "true" Higurashi fans defend this shit. And the season's score on MAL proves that most people are not happy with this season at least compared to the previous ones which are already weighed down by poor visual quality. It's just that most people don't bother to post on the forums (maybe 80 people posting compared to 24,000 watching just on MAL). |
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ssjokg said: NeonDZ said: Like I said though, the connecting fragments were based on those miracles, so it already had been turned into a mechanic in the original Higurashi VN. Nothing about this makes it a power of Hanyuu or Eua. The fragments exist even without them. This is why it is treated as a "deja vu" because they do happen even without a looper. The -connecting- fragments, not just "fragments", were specifically caused by Hanyuu though. After she saw the miracles and was convinced to help in Minagoroshi she realized how they worked and specifically caused them in Matsuri. It's why Matsuri Akasaka has the training he usually only gets after his wife's death. I guess you haven't read the VN? |
ssjokg said: Tsukumo_Yuuma said: I agree with some of your points (specifically Rika's character in the first arcs and Satoko's character) but the point about the OG's friendship message being destroyed is weird tbh, it's still kinda that here. In the OG the first loops/tragedies happen because one them starts doubting the others and/or miscommunication and things like that, here the loops happen because Satoko started doubting Rika and doesn't talk to her about her problems and blah blah (yeah i know it's very weird after Minagoroshi that Satoko should have some memories of, like other characters in Matsuribayashi). So anyway i think it's mirroring what happened in the OG question arcs, then in answer arcs/Sotsu they will get to talk and understand each other in the end or some shit, and be super duper friends again. Takano's change isn't that bad too tbh, Matsuribayashi happened only once at the end of Rika's journey so there was no chance of her having those flashbacks in Rika's 100 years (and Eua implied that what happens here is because her powers are too sTronG). As you said a few bad dreams/nightmares wouldn't have shaken Takano so they had no choice but to use her grandpa somehow anyway, what happened to make her find that message is a combination between the dreams + Nomura's talking to her (because she now got that she's just using her and doesn't care about Hifumi or the research (in the OG she assumed that was the case anyway but here she had her doubts kinda confirmed). Gou could have used the parallel with the OG's friendship but the problem is that Satoko isnt just paranoid like Keichi, Rena or Shion. For the sake of the argument I will ignore Irie's diagnosis and will assume Satoko is still at least L3. What she does is the opposite of what happened in the OG. Satoko isnt really doubting Rika(I mean what Satoko thinks is kinda true from her pov) but instead takes her "love" to absurd unhinged levels. Instead of being paranoid about her own safety, it is obsession that drives her. That's why it is turned from a bond that saves them to something dark. And if she really doesnt have HS anymore(at least her sea of fragment self) then this is even worse. Like with the rest of Gou this may have been better if the execution was handled differently. I dont know what others think about it but Rebellion . Yeah she obviously doesn't have HS anymore, i was trying to say they're "trying" to make Satoko's problems come from lack of communication between her and Rika (like some things in the OG), i'm just assuming that she got crazy after looping the first time and seeing Rika "betray" her again (that's the only explanation that can make sense). Obviously the execution of these problems is bad but it's still trying to make similar message like the OG. Starting the series with problems like miscommunication/paranoia/ whatever fucked up mental issue Satoko has, then in Sotsu hopefully Satoko will learn that she should've talked to Rika more and accept her help or shit like that. (any of this doesn't excuse the shit that Satoko did. And Satokowashi is trash. i'm just trying to say they "trying" to reach the same message at the end, the message of the series didn't change, they're just failing miserably). |
Tsukumo_YuumaMar 19, 2021 6:30 AM
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NeonDZ said: ssjokg said: Nothing about this makes it a power of Hanyuu or Eua. The fragments exist even without them. This is why it is treated as a "deja vu" because they do happen even without a looper. The -connecting- fragments, not just "fragments", were specifically caused by Hanyuu though. After she saw the miracles and was convinced to help in Minagoroshi she realized how they worked and specifically caused them in Matsuri. It's why Matsuri Akasaka has the training he usually only gets after his wife's death. I guess you haven't read the VN? I guess you havent seen how people remember even before Matsuri? |
My point is that Hanyuu sees those "miracles" and realizes they were a mechanic and goes on to purposefully do them. So, Gou explaining them as Eua's power leaking doesn't really contradict anything. ssjokg said: Nekodamashi Rika shows that she doesnt know a thing when she goes to talk to Tomitake. If she knew nothing happens because of Takano why would she try NOW? And it isnt like she is worried about him, she still suspects Takano. According to her reaction, she never suspected that Takano would just give up. Because before meeting Takano everything she could know is that she runs away or even gets killed for real. Going from that to Takano willingly giving up and regretting her plans is still a big leap. Tsukumo_Yuuma said: Idk why it's so hard for him to see that she really didn't know anything, and just kept doing nothing for the plot to continue and make similar arcs to the OG. Even if she somehow knew after Onidamashi that it's not Takanoa and her group this time, why did she do nothing of what she did in Matsuri in Onidamashi? Let's wait for the Answer arcs? If the conspiracy is closing doors there's nothing she can do with the Matsuri knowledge in that sense. I'd get your point if the Answer arcs didn't exist, but considering how we're getting them it's crazy to me that you think they were just writing Rika on auto-pilot rather than keeping things for Sotsu. If they were writing things on auto-pilot, without putting any thought into it, why would they even bother with the conspiracy openly closing down, since that had no effect in Onidamashi's plot? If that scene were removed nothing would change in Onidamashi itself. It was there for the overall world set up/mystery hints. |
NeonDZMar 19, 2021 5:51 AM
NeonDZ said: ssjokg said: Nekodamashi Rika shows that she doesnt know a thing when she goes to talk to Tomitake. If she knew nothing happens because of Takano why would she try NOW? And it isnt like she is worried about him, she still suspects Takano. According to her reaction, she never suspected that Takano would just give up. Because before meeting Takano everything she could know is that she runs away or even gets killed for real. Going from that to Takano willingly giving up and regretting her plans is still a big leap. Tsukumo_Yuuma said: Idk why it's so hard for him to see that she really didn't know anything, and just kept doing nothing for the plot to continue and make similar arcs to the OG. Even if she somehow knew after Onidamashi that it's not Takanoa and her group this time, why did she do nothing of what she did in Matsuri in Onidamashi? Let's wait for the Answer arcs? If the conspiracy is closing doors there's nothing she can do with the Matsuri knowledge in that sense. I'd get your point if the Answer arcs didn't exist, but considering how we're getting them it's crazy to me that you think they were just writing Rika on auto-pilot rather than keeping things for Sotsu. I say it is a pretty big leap to assume that she knows when every other info we have shows otherwise. The director said that ep24 will answer a lot about Satoko but I dont know about you, I didnt see any of that. So why would I expect anything from Sotsu? Even teh answers we got here in the last arc were things we already knew except Teppei remembering. And I am sorry but I cant just wait till July or October to voice my problems with this series because it MAY be solved there. There really is no reason for the director,author, anime or whatever to bait us to think otherwise. Why would the series make us think that Rika does nothing if she really did work behind the scenes? Hoping for a possible explanation to this is just crazy. |
NeonDZ said: Let's wait for the Answer arcs? If the conspiracy is closing doors there's nothing she can do with the Matsuri knowledge in that sense. I'd get your point if the Answer arcs didn't exist, but considering how we're getting them it's crazy to me that you think they were just writing Rika on auto-pilot rather than keeping things for Sotsu. If they were writing things on auto-pilot, without putting any thought into it, why would they even bother with the conspiracy openly closing down, since that had no effect in Onidamashi's plot? If that scene were removed nothing would change in Onidamashi itself. It was there for the overall world set up/mystery hints. Okay, we'll wait for Sotsu to confirm even more that she's written as an idiot then. (only because you don't want to believe she was just written like that for the plot to continue like they wanted. They did it with Shion in Satokowashi, R07 deleted her from existence to write the story more easily and make this stupid shit happen.) I will come here and reply to you when it airs lol. |
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ssjokg said: The director said that ep24 will answer a lot about Satoko but I dont know about you, I didnt see any of that.. Yeah idk why the fuck did he say that, he made my hopes go up and thought they "tricked" us and they actually made this shit intentionally. Looks like the director learned how to be an asshole from Ryukishi07. |
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ssjokg said: Why would the series make us think that Rika does nothing if she really did work behind the scenes? The issue with your "problem" in this case is that you're just whining you don't know everything about a mystery before you even get the answers to it. If the answer is bad, yeah, that's that, but you aren't even doing that. In this case we have new scenes hinting at an answer and you want to completely disregard them having any relevance because we haven't gotten the full answer yet. I don't think Rika "did work behind the scenes", because she doesn't really need to do anything in this case. I think she had reactions to the conspiracy stopping that we haven't seen and are being kept for Sotsu... because it's obvious she'd have some reaction to that, and yet they showed nothing. If they were just ignoring it all and just mimicking the initial arcs, the scenes showing the conspiracy closing doors wouldn't exist in the first place. The fact that we see a new Hanyuu scene in the preview (with her chipped horn, not the shinning one from her last appearance) strongly points to us getting new Rika point of view scenes. Tsukumo_Yuuma said: NeonDZ said: Let's wait for the Answer arcs? If the conspiracy is closing doors there's nothing she can do with the Matsuri knowledge in that sense. I'd get your point if the Answer arcs didn't exist, but considering how we're getting them it's crazy to me that you think they were just writing Rika on auto-pilot rather than keeping things for Sotsu. If they were writing things on auto-pilot, without putting any thought into it, why would they even bother with the conspiracy openly closing down, since that had no effect in Onidamashi's plot? If that scene were removed nothing would change in Onidamashi itself. It was there for the overall world set up/mystery hints. Okay, we'll wait for Sotsu to confirm even more that she's written as an idiot then. (only because you don't want to believe she was just written like that for the plot to continue like they wanted. They did it with Shion in Satokowashi, R07 deleted her from existence to write the story more easily and make this stupid shit happen.) I will come here and reply to you when it airs lol. Alright, just answer me something then. If you think Rika was just written on auto-pilot and they didn't even think about how she should feel about the conspiracy in the early arcs, what's the point of showing the conspiracy openly closing doors in Onidamashi while Rika was still alive? What is that scene going to lead to now that we know we're getting actual answer arcs? |
NeonDZMar 19, 2021 6:08 AM
| Even though HS is a physical condition it has a supernatural side as well. It was Hanyuu who most likely started it as cure she gave to the villagers of Hinamaizawa. ( Which is likely why you perceive Hanyuu more and more in her immaterial form as you progress into Terminal HS) Satoko doesn't suffer from HS. Even in the loops and definitely not in the sea of fragments. If she did not taking her injections she would quickly relapse into terminal HS. Which would seriously impede what she's doing here. Plus terminal HS has extremely severe hallucinations which we see Satoko suffer from in Tatari. Even though she is delusional to an extent she is not hallucinating lies to the level of Keichii for example. Who saw a marker as a needle and felt it with his own hands, and who had the false memory of being pushed off a bridge. No, Satoko is not insane. She does not fit any of the conditions required to be deemed insane. It's more accurate to call her a psycopathic. Which fits her well here. Insanity would clear her of any responsibility for her actions. |
ChargecoulombMar 19, 2021 6:04 AM
ssjokg said: The director said that ep24 will answer a lot about Satoko but I dont know about you, I didnt see any of that. He said after 23 and 24 we'd see Satoko in a new light. People assumed it'd be a more positive characterization, but at this point, I'd guess he just meant "She's totally Lambdadelta". |
NeonDZ said: ssjokg said: Why would the series make us think that Rika does nothing if she really did work behind the scenes? The issue with your "problem" in this case is that you're just whining you don't know everything about a mystery before you even get the answers to it. If the answer is bad, yeah, that's that, but you aren't even doing that. In this case we have new scenes hinting at an answer and you want to completely disregard them having any relevance because we haven't gotten the full answer yet. I don't think Rika "did work behind the scenes", because she doesn't really need to do anything in this case. I think she had reactions to the conspiracy stopping that we haven't seen and are being kept for Sotsu... because it's obvious she'd have some reaction to that, and yet they showed nothing. If they were just ignoring it all and just mimicking the initial arcs, the scenes showing the conspiracy closing doors wouldn't exist in the first place. The fact that we see a new Hanyuu scene in the preview (with her chipped horn, not the shinning one from her last appearance) strongly points to us getting new Rika point of view scenes. Tsukumo_Yuuma said: Okay, we'll wait for Sotsu to confirm even more that she's written as an idiot then. (only because you don't want to believe she was just written like that for the plot to continue like they wanted. They did it with Shion in Satokowashi, R07 deleted her from existence to write the story more easily and make this stupid shit happen.) I will come here and reply to you when it airs lol. Alright, just answer me something then. If you think Rika was just written on auto-pilot and they didn't even think about how she should feel about the conspiracy in the early arcs, what's the point of showing the conspiracy openly closing doors? What is that scene going to lead to now that we know we're getting actual answer arcs? You keep focusing on the clinic closing when we only saw Keichi noticing. Rika was still watching like an idiot when she saw everything unfold when Tomitake sent the Banken. She had no idea what was happening(conspiracy closing) before that. Also kinda late for Rika pov when we should have had that since ep1 AND if Sotsu shows that she knew then this would contradict her actions, or lack of them, in Gou's first half. |
MightyM17 said: Chargecoulomb said: A Also from Her persepective last time she looped Hanyuu was loosing her powers and couldnt keep up the loops anymore. Since Fragment Hanyuu doesnt say otherwise. Id say Rika should still think her loops are limited. The fact that she spend a multitude of loops not doing much is very Bizzare. Forget the club, she NEVER warns Tomitake (and Irie). If he dies Rikas chances of beating the Yamainu take a stratospheric nosedive to the point of being impossible. The club members can only delay the Yamainu, theu cant beat them. Rika was always a passive looper who waited for miracles to stack up before doing anything. Oh boy this is the second time I'm typing this in this thread. The lesson Rika learnt in Tsumi was that Miracles would never happen unless she took action herself, and that fate was not rigid. (Hanyuu comes to this same conclusion by Matsubiriyashi) She says something to this effect when she stops Rena from killing Keichii. And is further developed on in Mina where she understands that she can make miracles happen without waiting for Keichii to hand it to her. This culminates in Matsubiriyashi where she and Hanyuu directly take action against Takano. Gou's Rika is Matsubiriyashi Rika. So why should she not carry her development from it? |
MightyM17 said: Up to Minagoroshi. It was character growth to finally start doing shit. Also, Rika became a passive looper, she wasnt like that for all her 100 years.Chargecoulomb said: A Also from Her persepective last time she looped Hanyuu was loosing her powers and couldnt keep up the loops anymore. Since Fragment Hanyuu doesnt say otherwise. Id say Rika should still think her loops are limited. The fact that she spend a multitude of loops not doing much is very Bizzare. Forget the club, she NEVER warns Tomitake (and Irie). If he dies Rikas chances of beating the Yamainu take a stratospheric nosedive to the point of being impossible. The club members can only delay the Yamainu, theu cant beat them. Rika was always a passive looper who waited for miracles to stack up before doing anything. Ep2 of Gou shows that this is still the same Rika. And she does even less than the pre Minagoroshi Rika. NeonDZ said: ssjokg said: The director said that ep24 will answer a lot about Satoko but I dont know about you, I didnt see any of that. He said after 23 and 24 we'd see Satoko in a new light. People assumed it'd be a more positive characterization, but at this point, I'd guess he just meant "She's totally Lambdadelta". Which we "theorized" for at least 2 episodes before that? Does that guy know how mystery works? |
NeonDZ said: Alright, just answer me something then. If you think Rika was just written on auto-pilot and they didn't even think about how she should feel about the conspiracy in the early arcs, what's the point of showing the conspiracy openly closing doors? What is that scene going to lead to now that we know we're getting actual answer arcs? It's just for the old viewers, to let them know it's not the same reasons/culprit again, or to make them come up with theories. And like i said before the clinic goes through similar changes in every fragment (other than Matsuri) after Tomitake and Takano's "death", Rika's only reaction there would've been "oh it's happening again because they died". (and that scene wasn't even in the manga, so it's probably really not important at all). And like i said before similar thing happened to Shion, so it's not weird for Ryukishi07/the staff to make Rika like that just for convenience like they did with Shion. (or like R07 ignoring the question of "why doesn't Hanyuu follow Tomitake and Takano" . But here he just does it more often.) |
Tsukumo_YuumaMar 19, 2021 6:18 AM
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MightyM17 said: What happened to Satoko isn't only her fault. Both friends need some soul searching in order to get out of this situation, Gou would never have happened if Rika wasn't greedy and actually thought of her friends as real people rather than acessories. You cant be serious. You really compare wanting high education, lifestyle and old friends with Satoko's psychopathic behaviour? There is nothing greedy about this. Even if Rika is really a lying bitch what Satoko did is beyond teh appropriate reaction to it. Also Gou wouldnt exist if Rika didnt suddenly have the urge to have that desire anyway so again it is back to the writing. |
MightyM17 said: Chargecoulomb said: Oh boy this is the second time I'm typing this in this thread. The lesson Rika learnt in Tsumi was that Miracles would never happen unless she took action herself, and that fate was not rigid. (Hanyuu comes to this same conclusion by Matsubiriyashi) She says something to this effect when she stops Rena from killing Keichii. And is further developed on in Mina where she understands that she can make miracles happen without waiting for Keichii to hand it to her. This culminates in Matsubiriyashi where she and Hanyuu directly take action against Takano. Gou's Rika is Matsubiriyashi Rika. So why should she not carry her development from it? I guess you forgot Minagoroshi, where she gave up on every little event/thing and had to kept being proven wrong by K1, XD. I guess you forgot that Matsuri Rika also forgot most of Minagoroshi's events and had to be remembered by Hanyuu. Gou explains as much, Rika is the kind of looper to let the variables favour her before taking action while Satoko is the kind to brute force things her way. You and I see Minagoroshi in different ways. Who pushed Keichii to atone for Onikakushi and forgive himself for it? She starts out Mina determined yet becomes distraught when she realises it's a world in which Teppei returns. Which is fair from her perspective. Who pushed Satoko into asking for help even when she was being forced to do otherwise. Minagoroshi is the first time that she reaches out to Tomitake and co. Also. How is Rika forgetting her death in Minagoroshi relevant here? She only forgot that specific event, nothing else. Hanyuu created the Matsubiriyashi fragment. But Rika set up most of the stuff by taking action herself. Not Keichii. So... |
ChargecoulombMar 19, 2021 6:24 AM
MightyM17 said: Fixing her friends doesnt beat fate.ssjokg said: Up to Minagoroshi. It was character growth to finally start doing shit. Also, Rika became a passive looper, she wasnt like that for all her 100 years. Ep2 of Gou shows that this is still the same Rika. And she does even less than the pre Minagoroshi Rika Wrong. She was actively trying to fix the things that started the problems that eventually led to insanity of her friends. We don't know what much else she did to fight against Rule Y but she did actively fought against Rule X. The problem is that both of these rules weren't relevant anymore as she was being deceived by Satoko. I dont know why it is so hard to realize that she does nothing except trying to clear the secondary objective while ignoring the main. Stopping Keichi's paranoia AFTER the festival does nothing for her fight against Takano(which she assumes to be the enemy). Also why give small hints instead of..I dont know... joining them in the junkyard?Stopping Shion and K1 from entering the shed? Be with Satoko all the time in case Teppei returns? So no she didnt try. The only reasons why she was like that are a)cause we needed a repeat of the OG arcs and b) make her an idiot that cant realize the truth. |
Chargecoulomb said: Also. How is Rika forgetting her death in Minagoroshi relevant here? She only forgot that specific event, nothing else. She actually forgets everything about Minagoroshi for some reason. Hanyuu is the one who told her how they defeated Teppei. |
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| I guess I have to watch the OG series to understand why Satoko is so fixated on Rika. Is this still based on relationships? This obsession is so offputting it was so boring watching these series after Satoko arc started. I guess I'll watch the OG series before next season comes out. |
jaw201 said: Tsukumo_Yuuma said: -Why would she stop them from entering the shed when the tragedy was caused by the doll which she did prevent? She then tells K1 yOu sHoUldn'T havE enTereD iT, if she didn't want him to she should've done something (also the doll isn't what caused Meakashi/Watanagashi, Rika is just stupid). The console arcs are not canon. Therefore, in Rika's mind it is the correct option. Yes it's correct in her mind (because she's an idiot apparently). But ultimately it doesn't change anything if it was really a Wata/Mea fragment. Anyway my point was that she should've stopped K1 herself or done something to stop him from going to the saiguden if she actually thought the shed causes problems like she told K1 in the school. |
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MightyM17 said: ssjokg said: You cant be serious. You really compare wanting high education, lifestyle and old friends with Satoko's psychopathic behaviour? There is nothing greedy about this. Even if Rika is really a lying bitch what Satoko did is beyond teh appropriate reaction to it. Also Gou wouldnt exist if Rika didnt suddenly have the urge to have that desire anyway so again it is back to the writing. The opening lyrics pretty much spell out and also the Satokowashi eps where Rika pretty much does not want to actively choose between the school and Satoko and also guilt trips Satoko into having to follow her there making promises she doesn't really keeps. I do agree that Satoko's reaction is overboard, but it's like Yasu's case where a small thing like Battler's "sin" is what caused them to snap and cause the tragedy in Umineko Satoko's pov means nothing because we never saw any real attempt from either to keep being close. Or wait saw someone trying: Rika. MightyM17 said: Sure lets ignore all of Matsuri and Rika's declaration in ep2.ssjokg said: Fixing her friends doesnt beat fate. I dont know why it is so hard to realize that she does nothing except trying to clear the secondary objective while ignoring the main. Stopping Keichi's paranoia AFTER the festival does nothing for her fight against Takano(which she assumes to be the enemy). Also why give small hints instead of..I dont know... joining them in the junkyard?Stopping Shion and K1 from entering the shed? Be with Satoko all the time in case Teppei returns? So no she didnt try. The only reasons why she was like that are a)cause we needed a repeat of the OG arcs and b) make her an idiot that cant realize the truth. Because she is still a passive looper who does the bares minimum and waits for miracles to stack up so she can win XD Even in Minagoroshi, K1 did almost ALL the work and in Matsuri, Hanyuu carried. That's just how Rika is, dude. |
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