Mushishi
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| The fact that almost everyone missed that the mother was mentally ill is quiet shocking. Her body language and behavior make it clear that she is suffering from something, likely (postpartum) depression. Knowing that you should love someone deeply and being completely unable to do so would be an extremely scary and upsetting experience, yet everyone is only seeing her as selfish. Mushishi tends to blame many psychological issues on mushi, so my first reaction was that Ginko would see a mushi inside the mother as well, I was surprised when that wasn't the case. Despite that it's a very powerful and real story. |
EpicRemy said: The fact that almost everyone missed that the mother was mentally ill is quiet shocking. Her body language and behavior make it clear that she is suffering from something, likely (postpartum) depression. Knowing that you should love someone deeply and being completely unable to do so would be an extremely scary and upsetting experience, yet everyone is only seeing her as selfish. Mushishi tends to blame many psychological issues on mushi, so my first reaction was that Ginko would see a mushi inside the mother as well, I was surprised when that wasn't the case. Despite that it's a very powerful and real story. This. I guess some people lack the knowledge or life experience to understand it? Idk... There are many in this thread that got it though, that's surely not everyone |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
| I was half expecting them both to die. She's just got a case of kotomine-itus is all. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| I'm so angry right now... that really hit hard. were we watching the same thing? Thats not how it happened at all. Because of the mushi inside him, the lightning would falll where he was, as in his location. He attracted lightning. Which means that would endanger the people around him, which is why he used to go to that tree which was a safe distance away from his own house (and his parents) as well as the villagers. That's what Ginko tells the mom. Her mom's explanation, that he goes out to attract lightning because he hates her was complete BS because she didn't understand his reason, until Ginko explained it to her. He was saving their (and her) ass. That's why he pushed her away at the end, not because he did not want to die with someone who didn't love him. He was saving his mother. And everybody else. I wish I was as tough as that kid. He's my new inspiration. I'm baffled by some of the comments here, and how this episode did not seem to faze people. I had goosebumps at least 3 times during the episode, and I felt that it was one of the most moving Mushishi episodes. Excellent, even by Mushihsi standards. Which is saying a lot. 100% agree with your post. Reki obviously did care and it's literally spelled out that he protected his mother by Ginko. Not sure what the other posters were watching. |
niwasatouDec 9, 2014 5:07 PM
| Seriously fuck this mother |
soundscape said: EpicRemy said: The fact that almost everyone missed that the mother was mentally ill is quiet shocking. Her body language and behavior make it clear that she is suffering from something, likely (postpartum) depression. Knowing that you should love someone deeply and being completely unable to do so would be an extremely scary and upsetting experience, yet everyone is only seeing her as selfish. Mushishi tends to blame many psychological issues on mushi, so my first reaction was that Ginko would see a mushi inside the mother as well, I was surprised when that wasn't the case. Despite that it's a very powerful and real story. This. I guess some people lack the knowledge or life experience to understand it? Idk... There are many in this thread that got it though, that's surely not everyone I agree. Honestly I missed it at first too when I was watching it, but as I typed out my own thoughts on this episode, I was able to separate from my emotions and take a step back to look at the bigger picture. By the end of my post after describing Shino as being very apathetic yet still able to see that something was wrong with her, I realized that that was a symptom of depression (as well as the very obvious one, her suicide attempt). It's easy to judge from your POV and based on what you know, but a lot of times people are unable to look past what they see and analyze the circumstance that a character is in or has faced. I feel like this episode of Mushishi separates the people who are able to look deeper and empathize versus the people who only see the surface. |
tingyDec 9, 2014 8:41 PM
niwasatou said: I'm so angry right now... that really hit hard. were we watching the same thing? Thats not how it happened at all. Because of the mushi inside him, the lightning would falll where he was, as in his location. He attracted lightning. Which means that would endanger the people around him, which is why he used to go to that tree which was a safe distance away from his own house (and his parents) as well as the villagers. That's what Ginko tells the mom. Her mom's explanation, that he goes out to attract lightning because he hates her was complete BS because she didn't understand his reason, until Ginko explained it to her. He was saving their (and her) ass. That's why he pushed her away at the end, not because he did not want to die with someone who didn't love him. He was saving his mother. And everybody else. I wish I was as tough as that kid. He's my new inspiration. I'm baffled by some of the comments here, and how this episode did not seem to faze people. I had goosebumps at least 3 times during the episode, and I felt that it was one of the most moving Mushishi episodes. Excellent, even by Mushihsi standards. Which is saying a lot. 100% agree with your post. Reki obviously did care and it's literally spelled out that he protected his mother by Ginko. Not sure what the other posters were watching. It is indeed baffling but because people can look at the same thing and see different views, we have a very interesting and limitless world around us. But it never stops surprising me how can someone not see something that for you is obvious... For me it was an incredible, powerful and sad episode. Along with ep2 it is my favorite of this season. The inspiration that kid was, is nothing short from amazing. And how sad that his mom never(probably) managed to love him and change herself... |
vedatsvetDec 10, 2014 12:10 AM
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
| This episode was double sad, as the guy Shino was set up to marry actually didn't seem all that bad a husband or father. pakoko said: Second consecutive depressing episode... I can't personally relate to the mother so I hated her guts for being so selfish and stubborn, but I can sorta understand that you can't force yourself to love something or someone. Well, it's still odd. Even if she didn't want the child or the relationship it came from, usually once a child is born the mother still loves it. Even in extreme cases such a rape, if the child is born the mother often loves it, she might hate it as well, but she still loves it. Though it can be cruel, nature just works that way. I'm guessing that Shino is suffering from postpartum depression (on top of her not wanting the child in the first place, and probably allready being depressed). That's the only explanation I have. leslie7622 said: Ok what was that last scene about? Was that his umbilical cord that Reki was holding? Did he take it so that his mother couldn't find it? Did he not want to get rid of the mushi? Yeah, is that a thing in Japan, do you preserve a baby's umbilical cord? EDIT: veluriel said: (...) Just read Veluriel's post and yeah, post parting depression is a terrible, terribly incomprehensible, but very real condition. And while I also think she might have been more susceptible to it due to her prior state of mind, this can happen with perfectly happy and excited mothers too. In either case, it is not something that you choose or even "had coming", you have absolutely no control. So, assuming we're right about her condition, this makes Shino probably the most pittiable character this episode, perhaps of the entire show. |
LaionidasDec 11, 2014 2:59 PM
| "I'm a middle schooler bartender!" - Mishima Hitomi |
| Wow, this one hit me in the gut. I too had a child that I did not want. But unlike this mother, I could not help but love my baby in spite of everything. My heart went out to that boy who only wanted his mother to love him, but also to that mother because I wanted her to love him so badly. How could she not, especially after she found out he'd been saving them all this time? But on the other hand, I don't think she was being selfish, she was just broken and unable to feel for some reason. She wanted to feel but could not---and that I can relate to as well. I love my children fiercely and I thank God for them every day despite the unfortunate circumstances that led up to their conception that I wish I had done differently. Yet I think can understand why another might not have that kind of strength or presence of mind, so I don't fault her there. Because there are lots of times in most other areas of my life that I just don't feel anything at all. At least she was able to embrace the child and tell him the truth. That is better than lying to him. And that she hoped she could be a better person in the next life. She admitted she was wrong. But there's one other thing that bothered me... who tied the boy to the tree? He was calling to her for help... |
serendipityarise said: Wow, this one hit me in the gut. I too had a child that I did not want. But unlike this mother, I could not help but love my baby in spite of everything. My heart went out to that boy who only wanted his mother to love him, but also to that mother because I wanted her to love him so badly. How could she not, especially after she found out he'd been saving them all this time? But on the other hand, I don't think she was being selfish, she was just broken and unable to feel for some reason. She wanted to feel but could not---and that I can relate to as well. I love my children fiercely and I thank God for them every day despite the unfortunate circumstances that led up to their conception that I wish I had done differently. Yet I think can understand why another might not have that kind of strength or presence of mind, so I don't fault her there. Because there are lots of times in most other areas of my life that I just don't feel anything at all. At least she was able to embrace the child and tell him the truth. That is better than lying to him. And that she hoped she could be a better person in the next life. She admitted she was wrong. But there's one other thing that bothered me... who tied the boy to the tree? He was calling to her for help... Thanks for sharing. It makes me feel more sympathetic to the mom. I also wondered why the child was tied to the tree. I thought he was being punished by his mom and that's why he got infected with the mushi. I'm not sure if they explained it though. It was a good episode. |
| I feel bad for Reki for getting child abused that harsh by Shino it's actually murder Still he cares enough to protect the villagers and his mother Nothing justifies this even pre arranged marriage |
| Glad she didn't have some cliche change of heart there at the end. Love isn't unconditional, not even when its parent and child. |
serendipityarise said: Wow, this one hit me in the gut. I too had a child that I did not want. But unlike this mother, I could not help but love my baby in spite of everything. My heart went out to that boy who only wanted his mother to love him, but also to that mother because I wanted her to love him so badly. How could she not, especially after she found out he'd been saving them all this time? But on the other hand, I don't think she was being selfish, she was just broken and unable to feel for some reason. She wanted to feel but could not---and that I can relate to as well. I love my children fiercely and I thank God for them every day despite the unfortunate circumstances that led up to their conception that I wish I had done differently. Yet I think can understand why another might not have that kind of strength or presence of mind, so I don't fault her there. Because there are lots of times in most other areas of my life that I just don't feel anything at all. At least she was able to embrace the child and tell him the truth. That is better than lying to him. And that she hoped she could be a better person in the next life. She admitted she was wrong. But there's one other thing that bothered me... who tied the boy to the tree? He was calling to her for help... I appreciate this post so much. My heart was so heavy from this episode, and I feel like reading this made it explode. ;_; This episode took on more of a "show, don't tell" approach, leading some of the events to be rather vague, but the way I understood it, Reki's mother is the one who tied him to the tree in an attempt to kill him - hence why she was trying to block the sound of his cries. The direction, execution, and the themes in this episode were truly phenomenal. Mushishi yet again proves how well it has mastered the ability to portray real life issues in an art form. It was so poignant, beautiful, and thought provoking. It feels like the flip side of the previous episode; the mother in episode 7 lost her son who meant everything to her, and the mother in this episode lost her son who meant nothing to her. As much as I truly sympathize with the mother, I find her actions and thoughts truly and utterly despicable. If my interpretation is right, she tried to kill her living, breathing son just because she was forced into an arranged marriage. I understand the deep emotional turmoil she endured, but people ultimately have absolute control over their own actions, and there is not a single thing to justify a number of them. That said, between Reki's selfless attempts at self-sacrifice, painful loneliness and suicidal attitude stemming from his mother's lack of affection and love, and his mother's traumatic mental war and guilt stemming from her inability to love her own son, both characters deeply resonate with me. I can't put into words how amazing this episode is, and the ending music wrapped it up beautifully with its melancholic, bittersweet melody. I adore this series. "Let's die together. In my next life, I'll be born as a mother who can love her children." |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
| Sad episode, his mom didn't love him and wanted to die with him, I am glad he was able to survive and went to live with some relatives. |
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| It's always the breathtaking atmosphere and display of nature that captivates me first. The rumbling of thunder and the clouds shaking with lightning was absolutely gorgeous yet ominous to what was about to unfold. It seems as though there's a pattern behind the mushi - that several follow the cycle of nature and life but when they are separated from it search for a new means of survival - usually in the comfort of a human. This was yet another episode where the dilemma of the mushi itself was but an afterthought to the main focus on this divide between a mother and her child. It was no doubt disheartening to see this mother who could not bring herself to love her son, but I feel as though no one was at fault in all of this. I mean, trying to kill her son aside. It wasn't as though she hated or resented him at that point, rather she wanted to become a loving mother. But that very thought just didn't register to her. You can tell a man to be kind all you want, but the importance of that kindness won't click into place without an experience to warrant it. I think what's even sadder is how she only mentioned that she wanted to be reborn as a loving mother, which means that she may very well have not even considered wanting to love her son and was only absorbed in the regret of being unable to. It really left a sinking feeling when the episode ended with that unresolved separation between the family. But it just goes to show that people do not change that easily or suddenly and that if that experience had opened her eyes to loving her son, it would mean that those feelings were dormant inside of her all along. This episode makes me appreciate the warmth I received from my mother, reminding me that a parent's love is not obligatory nor does it just come with the package of being born. With only two episodes left, I hope to send off Mushishi's final adventures with equally thought provoking stories. |
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| I absolutely loved this episode. It was heart wrenching to see the mother treat her son that way, but there wasn't really anything that could be done about it. She didn't love her son, and obviously suffered from postpartum depression or something similar. The sad realities of this type of relationship were captured so well (the music and atmosphere created were gorgeous), so I'm glad they didn't make an ending where the mother had change in heart. Thought provoking episodes like this are why I love mushishi so much. |
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| Damn another amazing episode! It's so amazing how this series can bring in so much emotion in a single episode! Let's see what's next though! |
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| Frustrating episode, with no good resolution. But sometimes that's just the way it goes |
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| I do not understand how people can be so upset with Reki's mother. she was forced into a marriage she did not wish for by her cold parents. her husband was very cold to her. her life was denied to her. to call her selfish (as if she is the only selfish person) doesn't make sense to me when, her whole life, she was surrounded by uncaring, selfish people. what does it mean to love someone? could it not be said that she did love Reki because she did not wish for him to be born into such a cold environment? she knew this child would not be raised well. is that not love? she knew she would be a failure as a mother from the start. perhaps because of this, she felt it would be insulting to tell her child that she loved him. she doomed him to this life with her. when Reki showed her that he would not mind dying, even then she could not lie to Reki and tell him that she loved him. she could not lie to Reki and tell him that she wanted him to be here rather than with a kind, caring mother. maybe she is selfish, but rightfully so. and it would be a lie to say I don't feel terrible for Reki. it is a bad situation all around, but I do not think the mother is the root cause of it. ..uhh anyway, good episode, but that goes without saying with mushishi. |
MashmakhanDec 25, 2014 2:40 AM
| meditate on bass weight. |
| When the mushi left through the belly button, I thought the matrix |
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| ITT: retards preaching about self-centeredness Her choice to still reject him as his son was exactly what I was waiting for all this time. If she would end up going "Sorry, I love you" and shit, THAT would piss me off even more than the retards here. |
| I liked the idea that the previous ep and this one has something to do with each other. Rain and lightning mushi. Also, this ep being contrast to the previous one as to the story. I actually appreciated that it ended that way. Although I was hoping a bit for her to show motherly love, it managed to present that love can't be forced at all. But at least, she entertained that wish to be reborn instead as a loving mother to her child. She's just being true to herself. But yeah, still cruel. 2 eps left. :( |
| This episode really made my heart choke in despair... |
| What a horrible mother. There isn't any excuse for her not loving him. She's garbage in human skin. |
| Serious ? His mother is too selfish ! Her son takes care of the village and his family, but she never smile or did something of gentle for him. This woman made me angry... Otherwise a great episode as usual. |
| What a mess of a mother. I hated that bitch. Unlike the son, who took that last lightning like a boss. The mother could die for all I care. |
Oh, pitiful shadow cloaked in darkness. Thy actions cause men pain and suffering. Thy hollow soul drowns in thy sins. How would you like to see what death is like? -Enma Ai |
| This was one of the best episodes this season. Too many of the other ones were focused on the mushi and lore instead of how they affect human interactions. Here, the focus is not on the mushi but how its effects help push along the relationship of the mother and son (which is the main focus). More episodes need to be like this as this is where Mushishi really shines. The situation was a rather messed up one but it was portrayed very well and realistically. Moving away was the best decision for the son. |
| -Nothing can stay unchanged. Even so, can you still keep on loving this place? -Be still my soul; when change and tears are past, all safe and blessed we shall meet at last. |
| Not only was she a miserable failure as a mother, but also as a basic human being as well. Her husband should tie her to a tree and let her get struck by lightning. Sent with Mal Updater |
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| I would be sad as well if I had to marry and have the children of someone I didn't love, but come on... look what she did with the kid and didn't stop even though he wanted to protect her lol.. Mother of the year award. |
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| that poor kid deserved a much better life |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
Zadion said: serendipityarise said: Wow, this one hit me in the gut. I too had a child that I did not want. But unlike this mother, I could not help but love my baby in spite of everything. My heart went out to that boy who only wanted his mother to love him, but also to that mother because I wanted her to love him so badly. How could she not, especially after she found out he'd been saving them all this time? But on the other hand, I don't think she was being selfish, she was just broken and unable to feel for some reason. She wanted to feel but could not---and that I can relate to as well. I love my children fiercely and I thank God for them every day despite the unfortunate circumstances that led up to their conception that I wish I had done differently. Yet I think can understand why another might not have that kind of strength or presence of mind, so I don't fault her there. Because there are lots of times in most other areas of my life that I just don't feel anything at all. At least she was able to embrace the child and tell him the truth. That is better than lying to him. And that she hoped she could be a better person in the next life. She admitted she was wrong. But there's one other thing that bothered me... who tied the boy to the tree? He was calling to her for help... I appreciate this post so much. My heart was so heavy from this episode, and I feel like reading this made it explode. ;_; This episode took on more of a "show, don't tell" approach, leading some of the events to be rather vague, but the way I understood it, Reki's mother is the one who tied him to the tree in an attempt to kill him - hence why she was trying to block the sound of his cries. The direction, execution, and the themes in this episode were truly phenomenal. Mushishi yet again proves how well it has mastered the ability to portray real life issues in an art form. It was so poignant, beautiful, and thought provoking. It feels like the flip side of the previous episode; the mother in episode 7 lost her son who meant everything to her, and the mother in this episode lost her son who meant nothing to her. As much as I truly sympathize with the mother, I find her actions and thoughts truly and utterly despicable. If my interpretation is right, she tried to kill her living, breathing son just because she was forced into an arranged marriage. I understand the deep emotional turmoil she endured, but people ultimately have absolute control over their own actions, and there is not a single thing to justify a number of them. That said, between Reki's selfless attempts at self-sacrifice, painful loneliness and suicidal attitude stemming from his mother's lack of affection and love, and his mother's traumatic mental war and guilt stemming from her inability to love her own son, both characters deeply resonate with me. I can't put into words how amazing this episode is, and the ending music wrapped it up beautifully with its melancholic, bittersweet melody. I adore this series. "Let's die together. In my next life, I'll be born as a mother who can love her children." 1. From the posts in this discussion I have learnt that the mother most probably suffered from depression. 2. She could not love her son. Till here I completely agree. We cannot force the feeling of love. 3. However, passive dislike or indifference is one thing. Actively trying to KILL your son is another. Now replace "your son" with "someone who is innocent and had no involvement in your predicament". Lyrisia said: That was quite cruel of her... not loving him is one thing but to tie him to a tree when there is thunder outside... ^ This!!! Now I understand that mental illness may have caused that action (which is why it is considered an illness), but I cannot CANNOT put myself at ease with such an explanation. I fear that if I accept this rationale behind the mother's actions, then I would start to accept it as a common occurrence. This should not become a common occurrence. Why? I cannot put into words. But it should not become a common occurrence in our minds. |
koreye said: darkreaver94 said: Okay, I'm going to rewatch this again. Good points by the way. Sorry but thanks for answering. God, what were you guys smoking when you were watching this episode? "Reki finds it creepy that his mother hugged him...he doesn't want to die with someone who clearly doesn't love him" "It was enough for him to hate his mother as shown from his eyes. He sees lightning as something that loved him because of how it always seek for him no matter where he was." were we watching the same thing? Thats not how it happened at all. Because of the mushi inside him, the lightning would falll where he was, as in his location. He attracted lightning. Which means that would endanger the people around him, which is why he used to go to that tree which was a safe distance away from his own house (and his parents) as well as the villagers. That's what Ginko tells the mom. Her mom's explanation, that he goes out to attract lightning because he hates her was complete BS because she didn't understand his reason, until Ginko explained it to her. He was saving their (and her) ass. That's why he pushed her away at the end, not because he did not want to die with someone who didn't love him. He was saving his mother. And everybody else. I wish I was as tough as that kid. He's my new inspiration. I'm baffled by some of the comments here, and how this episode did not seem to faze people. I had goosebumps at least 3 times during the episode, and I felt that it was one of the most moving Mushishi episodes. Excellent, even by Mushihsi standards. Which is saying a lot. Anyone else notice how we've had 3 episodes based around mother-son relationship this season? sevki said: I still think a mother should feel something for her child no matter what the conditions of having him/her; or no matter who she is married to. You "think" and you "feel" such and such should be a fact of life, but its not. I've seen mothers who have been absolutely horrible with their children. This was nothing in comparison with what I have witnessed, heard and read in real life. You know about mothers who have actually murdered their own children, like this one mother I read about once in the states who drowned all her children in a bath tub? Your opinion doesn't matter when in reality things are different. There are all kinds of weird people in this world, including those mothers and fathers who don't give two shits about their children. In the case of this mother in this episode, she just didn't or couldn't love her child. She just doesn't have the capacity to, and there's nothing unrealistic about it. The woman who drowned her kids was suffering from Post Natal Depression and to be honest that's what I thought Shino was suffering from in this as well. It certainly seemed that way anyhow |
| While I haven't read through this thread thoroughly, it would seem some people are missing the point in regards to the mother. Some people simply aren't made to be parents. They value their own freedom and pursuits highly and don't have the parental urge to raise children. She was forced into an arranged marriage (with the suggestion that she actually loved another at the time), and was made to play the mother figure she didn't want to be. She knew perfectly well that she should be a better mother for the child's sake ("In my next life, I'll be born as a mother who can love her children"), but she just couldn't. Love isn't something you can force. Saying that she was selfish is unfair in my opinion. She'd been forced to live a life she never wanted and had clearly been living without purpose and in despair for a long time. This is fantastic characterisation imo and a testament to the quality writing that goes into the characters we see each episode. |
| Jesus this thread took awhile to read through. Didn't think two pages would be chock-full of extensive explanations on Shino's mental condition. I mean, I'm not complaining, I read it because I enjoyed analysis but I guess I'm surprised about how many people just looked at her as an evil selfish bitch woman. I've don't think I've ever seen so much hate generated to someone who attempted suicide multiple times through the course of the story. Honestly though, I feel like I'm the one with egg on my face for expecting less hatred when coming into this thread. & I'm not trying to vilify anyone who does hate her but I think the episode provided more understanding than some people seem to give the episode. That aside, this was a really good & powerful episode that I don't feel like adding too much to but I will say, that Mushishi has never really been about Mushi. It's always used them as mask for the study of something much more human, usually relationships. But I have to say, this might be the most transparent the show's ever gotten that mushi are basically just really cool plot devices. |
| The mother never had any thought of becoming a loving mother ... being forced into a marriage. Even though she tried so hard, she just couldnt and I feel really bad for the mother. In the end I guess it's for the better that the son moved in with a relative. I'm guessing it wouldnt be to long before she broke up with the man either. |
PrOxAntoApr 18, 2015 1:17 PM
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| Dam that was depressing, that poor kid... |
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| Reki's mother was maybe the most annoying character in Mushishi universe. Can't believe how the boy grow to be such a nice person with parents like this. Glad he will live on with new parents. |
| The discussions here on the mother's traumas and psychological problems are all very well-thought, but they all seem to conveniently overlook the bare fact that she tried to actively kill her son (by tying him to the tree and waiting for the lightning to strike). While abortion is controversial, I believe attempted murder of a fully sentient human being to be less so. She's free not to love him, but no one has the right to take an innocent life, let alone that of their own offspring. And attempting to die with him? That's still murder, because there was a good chance neither of them would make it and that's what she was expecting. So basically she's an would-be murderer, insane or not. Now judge her as you will. |
| I really wish his mother to be dead in the end.. she's awful. But too bad he didn't die too.. he or his mother, this episode could have been so much better with one death. |
| 5/5 |
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