soundscape said: keragamming said: If every arc in hunter x hunter was as good as Yorknew city, then yes. But I have a lot more naime I enjoy more than Hxh, imo a lot of boring episode are in Hxh and also too much inner monologue. Here's my list of anime that are better. D-grayman, Yu Yu hackushoo, yes I'm serious. Fmab, Flame of recca, dbz, One piece, bleach, Rurouni Kenshin. That's all I can think of at the moment. But Hxh Is a pretty good anime., but the pacing can be really slow and boring. You forgot Fairy Tail in your listing... So why is HxH a 1 if it's "pretty good"? WHAT!!! Thnx for telling me I didn't realize. Mods would probably think I'm a troll. Not a fan of fairy tale... |
| LOL.... Actually I am not a fan of FT either... But have you watched it? Since you liked d gray man you might like it somehow... |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
MCAL said: Well Hunter x Hunter won't be beating Gintama and FMA: Brotherhood in the MAL ratings anytime soon... Not that those things usually mean anything of course (I'm sure the Gintama movie was very good, but does it really deserve to be number 2?!)... Anyway, by the time this arc ends, I fully expect Hunter x Hunter to get the 15th spot and perhaps, by the time the anime ends itself (Which will be soon), it will be in the top ten. (And you will see me popping champagne). But yes, I think Hunter x Hunter is the best shounen ever. It's 11th on best anime series on mall.... |
Cresherhsm said: It already is for me. HxH is an anime that speaks to me just as much my course does. It has so much that I like and love in a show that I can't imagine another anime topping it. It's a well-written battle anime that's story oriented with fights that are cerebral in nature. So far, all story arcs have entertained me immensely and the great thing is each of them are radically different from one another. Some of them have a perfect punch of psychology that really hits the spot and I appreciate that the series isn't afraid to explore deeper themes. A lot of times, I can't tell where the story is going, the main cast is lovable and the villains are an joy to watch. In the end, there's no such thing as "the best" for anything. We all have different tastes and preferences but I believe that the series will end of being one of the best in its genre up there with FMA. The leader of the apocalypse, the bringer of light, the leader of a revolution has spoken his words of wisdom! He speaks the truth! Not everyone likes pepperoni pizza, but hell I still love it. |
| Definitely one of the top battle shounen. I'd say it became one of the best right after the Yorknew city arc. |
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MCAL said: Well Hunter x Hunter won't be beating Gintama and FMA: Brotherhood in the MAL ratings anytime soon... Not that those things usually mean anything of course (I'm sure the Gintama movie was very good, but does it really deserve to be number 2?!)... Anyway, by the time this arc ends, I fully expect Hunter x Hunter to get the 15th spot and perhaps, by the time the anime ends itself (Which will be soon), it will be in the top ten. (And you will see me popping champagne). But yes, I think Hunter x Hunter is the best shounen ever. EDIT: Also Hunter x Hunter has been increasing in the rankings, so clearly Chimera Ant arc has done little to affect HxH's status in the MAL community. Either that or Hunter x Hunter is so well loved, that people are giving it lots of tens to make sure the score doesn't lower. You actually care about MAL rankings .-. ?! |
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MSV said: tsudecimo said: You actually care about MAL rankings .-. ?! Why shouldn't he? Just because your favorite anime isn't ranked high that doesn't mean people shouldn't care about the rankings. Even if the rankings on this site isn't accurate or nobody cares about it, It does reflect the opinion of people watching it to some degree. Because they don't mean anything significant? My favorite anime ''ranks high'' where it counts the most, so this isn't jealousy if that's what you are implying. And actually all my other favorites except Naruto are ranked high anyway..so what was the point of bringing that up? Relax buddy. |
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| Meh Chimera Ant Arc aint all that. But Yorknew Arc is one of the best shounen arcs ever. |
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MSV said: Can i know what is it that counts the most? Japan of course. I thought that was obvious. Miyata- said: Meh Chimera Ant Arc aint all that. But Yorknew Arc is one of the best shounen arcs ever. Agreed. |
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tsudecimo said: MSV said: Can i know what is it that counts the most? Japan of course. I thought that was obvious. I was sure you were going to say "In my heart"... But yeah, Japan matters the most. I agree with that. OT: Well, if we consider FMA:B a battle shounen (i don't, but some people do, so i'm going with them), then that makes HxH my third favorite battle shounen, i guess. Although i still haven't watch all the famous battle shounens, so that position could change. |
Andan210Mar 18, 2014 9:09 AM
| The only True Ending is the Harem Ending. |
Andan210 said: I was sure you were going to say "In my heart"... LOL. Dammit, I should have went with that. Andan210 said: OT: Well, if we consider FMA:B a battle shounen (i don't, but some people do, so i'm going with them), then that makes HxH my third favorite battle shounen, i guess. FMA is a battle manga that was published in a Shounen magazine. So yeah it fits in the made up term of ''battle shounen''. |
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tsudecimo said: Andan210 said: OT: Well, if we consider FMA:B a battle shounen (i don't, but some people do, so i'm going with them), then that makes HxH my third favorite battle shounen, i guess. FMA is a battle manga that was published in a Shounen magazine. So yeah it fits in the made up term of ''battle shounen''. Yeah, that makes sense. I think is because FMA is not separated in distinctives arcs like One Piece or Naruto, that i didn't see it as a battle shounen the first time i watch it. I mean, it obviously has arcs, but overall the story just feels like one big saga. I guess it's just me. (Also because Edward doesn't name his attacks). tsudecimo said: Andan210 said: I was sure you were going to say "In my heart"... LOL. Dammit, I should have went with that. It would have been epic XD. |
Andan210Mar 18, 2014 9:23 AM
| The only True Ending is the Harem Ending. |
| The Chimera Ant arc made HxH one of my top anime. Fantastic series. |
soundscape said: keragamming said: If every arc in hunter x hunter was as good as Yorknew city, then yes. But I have a lot more naime I enjoy more than Hxh, imo a lot of boring episode are in Hxh and also too much inner monologue. Here's my list of anime that are better. D-grayman, Yu Yu hackushoo, yes I'm serious. Fmab, Flame of recca, dbz, One piece, bleach, Rurouni Kenshin. That's all I can think of at the moment. But Hxh Is a pretty good anime., but the pacing can be really slow and boring. You forgot Fairy Tail in your listing... So why is HxH a 1 if it's "pretty good"? Ya know, best shounen pretty much come down to objective opinions. But I think anyone with any sense of credibility can agree that Fairy Tail is definitely not one of the best shounen anime around. I mean come on, its the exact same thing over and over again. Character gets beat to a pulp, yells NAKAMA POWER 3x and clicks his heels and wins the fight. |
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| Hunter x Hunter it is already the best battle shonen ever. |
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LayedBack said: soundscape said: keragamming said: If every arc in hunter x hunter was as good as Yorknew city, then yes. But I have a lot more naime I enjoy more than Hxh, imo a lot of boring episode are in Hxh and also too much inner monologue. Here's my list of anime that are better. D-grayman, Yu Yu hackushoo, yes I'm serious. Fmab, Flame of recca, dbz, One piece, bleach, Rurouni Kenshin. That's all I can think of at the moment. But Hxh Is a pretty good anime., but the pacing can be really slow and boring. You forgot Fairy Tail in your listing... So why is HxH a 1 if it's "pretty good"? Ya know, best shounen pretty much come down to objective opinions. But I think anyone with any sense of credibility can agree that Fairy Tail is definitely not one of the best shounen anime around. I mean come on, its the exact same thing over and over again. Character gets beat to a pulp, yells NAKAMA POWER 3x and clicks his heels and wins the fight. The same thing can be said for any of the big three for the same reasons. And subjective* |
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judals said: The same thing can be said for any of the big three for the same reasons. And subjective* Except that One Piece has plenty to offer. Fairy tail, Naruto and Bleach aren't even in the same realm. People don't have to like OP at all, but I'll always gladly defend its quality and merits of which their are many. Also I enjoy watching Fairy Tail, so in that one case my opinion is actually more objective than anything. While I enjoy it as a shallow form of entertainment and can see the appeal, its just simply not one of the best battle shounen out there. The writing has to be considered downright lazy when put up against some of the best titles. but yes, I did mean subjective in my last post of course. |
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LayedBack said: Also I enjoy watching Fairy Tail, so in that one case my opinion is actually more objective than anything. You can't be more ''objective'' about something, because you enjoy it, while thinking it's quality is bad or vice versa. LayedBack said: but I'll always gladly defend its quality and merits of which their are many. It has none. |
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tsudecimo said: LayedBack said: Also I enjoy watching Fairy Tail, so in that one case my opinion is actually more objective than anything. You can't be more ''objective'' about something, because you enjoy it, while thinking it's quality is bad or vice versa. LayedBack said: but I'll always gladly defend its quality and merits of which their are many. It has none. Says the one who speaks like his word is fact. Perhaps you might take your own damn advice, Mr. Humble one? There is quality and merit to the story. You not liking it isn't grounds for it to be considered completely worthless. And the fact that you seem to love Naruto while condemning One Piece in such a way means you're not worth my time. You're obviously clouded by something and being unreasonable because of it. And I don't have much of an interest in finding out what your problem is so I'll leave it at that. |
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| Me saying it has none is my opinion. I don't believe, I commented on whether or not I dislike one piece or expressed it, I just think it's has no merits or quality a.k.a I think it's bad. In fact, I would go as far as to say, that I feel about it, the same way, you feel about Fairy Tail. Still doesn't make my opinion regarding one piece ''more objective''. Assumptions here, assumptions there, assumptions everywhere. Sorry, I'm not 'clouded' by anything. One Piece being bad is just my honest opinion. Cool beans bro, just learn how to be less butthurt. |
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| Well your score is clouded and with that most likely your opinion of the show. I remember you saying that you really would have given One Piece a 6 but you felt like you wasted time watching that far so you gave it a 1 so 1 isn't really your real score. The reason why you gave it that long was probably because of hype and because you were told it would get better? Giving it a lower score because of that sounds clouded to me. And no doubt that affected your actual opinion of the show. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| Thinking you're a bit jaded and hypocritical is different from being "butthurt" (as the trolls so love to say whenever they feel threatened). That you think One Piece has absolutely no merit means you think its worthless and devoid of even a small bit of entertainment value. If you have such a low opinion of it, then you obviously don't feel the same way I feel about Fairy Tail. I don't think FT is worthless. So please don't compare your situation with mine. And if you just want to express your subjective opinion, you might want to try not directly quoting someone and speaking in such a way that says "you're wrong because I said so". One Piece pretty much has everything Naruto has. A sense of friendship and adventure, strategic fighting, politics, wide-scale warfare. So knowing that, where the hell did One Piece fail so hard as to make you think it has absolutely no quality when you obviously love something so similar? |
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LayedBack said: Thinking you're a bit jaded and hypocritical is different from being "butthurt" (as the trolls so love to say whenever they feel threatened). That you think One Piece has absolutely no merit means you think its worthless and devoid of even a small bit of entertainment value. If you have such a low opinion of it, then you obviously don't feel the same way I feel about Fairy Tail. I don't think FT is worthless. So please don't compare your situation with mine. And if you just want to express your subjective opinion, you might want to try not directly quoting someone and speaking in such a way that says "you're wrong because I said so". One Piece pretty much has everything Naruto has. A sense of friendship and adventure, strategic fighting, politics, wide-scale warfare. So knowing that, where the hell did One Piece fail so hard as to make you think it has absolutely no quality when you obviously love something so similar? He doesn't like the comedy. Also, why do these other battle shounen have to invade the HxH thread? These will always remeber hot topics, but I can see why people get tired of them appearing everywhere. |
RedRoseFringMar 24, 2014 1:01 PM
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| To me it is on the same level as FMA and superior to One Piece. OP has its highs, but it is not as densely packed with intense and meaningful scenes as HxH and FMA are. While OP does not many fillers, it has fluff in every episode where far too much time is spent on something trivial/unfunny stuff. In comparison to HxH, OP is also cliched and formulaic in its execution. Despite all that OP is still very good and one of the best in this genre, don't get me wrong, I just don't enjoy it as much as HxH. |
IntroverTurtle said: Well your score is clouded and with that most likely your opinion of the show. I remember you saying that you really would have given One Piece a 6 but you felt like you wasted time watching that far so you gave it a 1 so 1 isn't really your real score. The reason why you gave it that long was probably because of hype and because you were told it would get better? Giving it a lower score because of that sounds clouded to me. And no doubt that affected your actual opinion of the show. No. I would have given it a 6, if I stopped at the episode were Robin joined the crew. Because that's the only episode, which I fully enjoyed and appreciated. It didn't affect anything, one piece has no hype. I was mostly going on because at the time, I discovered it's manga sales. After I watched Albasta, I knew that other people see something in it, that I don't. All in all, I wouldn't give it anything higher than a 4. I did indeed give it 1, because I felt like I wasted my time. LayedBack said: Thinking you're a bit jaded and hypocritical is different from being "butthurt" (as the trolls so love to say whenever they feel threatened). That you think One Piece has absolutely no merit means you think its worthless and devoid of even a small bit of entertainment value. If you have such a low opinion of it, then you obviously don't feel the same way I feel about Fairy Tail. I don't think FT is worthless. So please don't compare your situation with mine. And if you just want to express your subjective opinion, you might want to try not directly quoting someone and speaking in such a way that says "you're wrong because I said so". One Piece pretty much has everything Naruto has. A sense of friendship and adventure, strategic fighting, politics, wide-scale warfare. So knowing that, where the hell did One Piece fail so hard as to make you think it has absolutely no quality when you obviously love something so similar? Please spare me the bullshit. I'm not threatened by you or your aggressive baseless posts. I just gave an accurate description of how you were behaving. When I say no merits or quality. I mean it in the critical sense, when I judge the writing of one piece. Sure it gave me some entertainment value here and there (i.e Robin episode), but in my mind that's separate thing all together. It makes it worthless in my opinion, because what little entertainment the show gave me, is not worth going through 100+ episodes. Pft. Do I really need to add ''imo'' after everything I write. Everything I say is by default just my opinion, unless it's an obvious fact. I didn't think they were done well in one piece and some of them being horrible, it's that simple and one piece doesn't have strategic fights. I still don't get the adventure tag Naruto has. Where is the adventure aspect? |
tsudecimoMar 24, 2014 8:39 PM
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tsudecimo said: I've been rewatching Naruto (dubbed), and I also agree on that. That's all I'll say here for now.I still don't get the adventure tag Naruto has. Where is the adventure aspect? |
GalekCMar 24, 2014 9:12 PM
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tsudecimo said: snip You go around the forums directly confronting anyone who speaks good about One Piece, shoving your opinion down peoples' throats with a 'matter of fact' sort of brevity. You rate it 1/10 and you resort to name calling when someone dares to point out your BS. I would actually say you're both the aggressive one and the one who feels threatened here. Oh and One Piece does have strategic fights, and that is an objective fact. Using your little 'matter of fact' manner of conversing isn't gonna change you being wrong in this particular case. But I somehow doubt that you'd ever admit to being wrong. This is just further proof that you simply can't be reasonable when it comes to discussing One Piece, you're even willing to deny facts. |
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| I'm aggressive? can you not read or something? I barely use any sort of language that would imply it. I don't remember going around the forums and shoving down my opinion about one piece, unless it's a joke with certain users, that know I'm joking like turtle for example. Didn't I tell you to spare me with these baseless assumptions? I think what's ironic here, is that I usually rant on people who use the word ''objectively'' wrong. Nope. It would have been easier to give examples of said strategic fights, instead of saying I'm wrong and I'm denying ''objective'' facts. From what I watched of it, there has been none, except for maybe Nami's weird fight in Albasta, which I can hardly call a strategic fight. Who said I'm interested in discussing one piece with you in the first place? Unpleasant is what I would imagine any sort of discussion with you, would be. GalekC said: tsudecimo said: I've been rewatching Naruto (dubbed), and I also agree on that. That's all I'll say here for now.I still don't get the adventure tag Naruto has. Where is the adventure aspect? Why dub though :/? |
tsudecimoMar 25, 2014 12:53 AM
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| I agree the narration started ruining everything. |
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tsudecimo said: Aside from the main cast, I kind of find it a tad more tolerable for me. I've just gotten a bit tired lately of hearing Japanese voices in certain anime. (Plus, Steve Blum!Why dub though :/? I even found an uncut version online.) I'm also very much in anticipation of this show getting a dub, even if it takes more than a couple years. (It'll still be nothing compared to waiting on the manga.) |
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| best shounen ever |
| Cty Best mid |
Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. |
tsudecimo said: Nope. It would have been easier to give examples of said strategic fights, instead of saying I'm wrong and I'm denying ''objective'' facts. From what I watched of it, there has been none, except for maybe Nami's weird fight in Albasta, which I can hardly call a strategic fight. Who said I'm interested in discussing one piece with you in the first place? Excuse me? You initiated the discussion by replying to me about One Piece to begin with. You can't really have it both ways, I mean damn. Basically you just want to 'get in peoples faces' with your opinion but when someone actually responds you get all defensive to the point of being insulting. You really need to check yourself. I don't even have to give you specific examples, it should be obvious that their are strategic fights in One Piece. Whenever a character uses a special ability against an opponent, that's strategic, smart one. Especially when its tailor-made to fight the opponent. Remember Luffy vs Crocodile? Or did you not even see that and you're just making baseless claims? Whenever someone uses a counterattack against an opponent, or finds a way to fight against a certain Devil Fruit, that's also strategic. Whenever a group makes a plan, that's strategy too. Should I give you the definition of strategy, or what? And before you say it as some kind of defense to your argument, yes One Piece does use the 'Nakama power' type thing that just about every other battle shounen does as well. But that doesn't mean that strategy is not used in fights. Its used in pretty much every single major fight in the anime. You're wrong about this one thing, you can't deny facts. And when you do its obvious to see just how personal you're taking this. Though I do agree with you on one thing, this discussion has been quite unpleasant. |
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LayedBack said: tsudecimo said: Nope. It would have been easier to give examples of said strategic fights, instead of saying I'm wrong and I'm denying ''objective'' facts. From what I watched of it, there has been none, except for maybe Nami's weird fight in Albasta, which I can hardly call a strategic fight. Who said I'm interested in discussing one piece with you in the first place? Excuse me? You initiated the discussion by replying to me about One Piece to begin with. You can't really have it both ways, I mean damn. Basically you just want to 'get in peoples faces' with your opinion but when someone actually responds you get all defensive to the point of being insulting. You really need to check yourself. I don't even have to give you specific examples, it should be obvious that their are strategic fights in One Piece. Whenever a character uses a special ability against an opponent, that's strategic, smart one. Especially when its tailor-made to fight the opponent. Remember Luffy vs Crocodile? Or did you not even see that and you're just making baseless claims? Whenever someone uses a counterattack against an opponent, or finds a way to fight against a certain Devil Fruit, that's also strategic. Whenever a group makes a plan, that's strategy too. Should I give you the definition of strategy, or what? And before you say it as some kind of defense to your argument, yes One Piece does use the 'Nakama power' type thing that just about every other battle shounen does as well. But that doesn't mean that strategy is not used in fights. Its used in pretty much every single major fight in the anime. You're wrong about this one thing, you can't deny facts. And when you do its obvious to see just how personal you're taking this. Though I do agree with you on one thing, this discussion has been quite unpleasant. As much as I like OP I have to agree with tsudecimo on this one... Strategic fights are not OP's strong part.... maybe there are some strategic elements but for the most part the fights are based on physical abilities and devil fruit abilities display.... Luffy might covered himself with water against Crocodile but not all fights are like that and that was a small element compared to the general theme... |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
| Can you guys shut up and stop arguing about anime? It's all entertaining, stop shoving your opinions down peoples throats. Grow up. Back to the TOPIC, HxH is pretty damn good. The Chimera Ant Arc is running quite well so far, looking forward to seeing Gon and Pitou's fight (if there is one). |
soundscape said: As much as I like OP I have to agree with tsudecimo on this one... Strategic fights are not OP's strong part.... maybe there are some strategic elements but for the most part the fights are based on physical abilities and devil fruit abilities display.... Luffy might covered himself with water against Crocodile but not all fights are like that and that was a small element compared to the general theme... You're missing the point though. He's said that there are absolutely no strategic fights in One Piece. I corrected him because factually speaking he is indeed wrong. And if you perhaps read my post a little more closely you would have noticed that I admitted that not every fight relies on strategy. But we're talking about his willingness to deny a fact just to further his cause in our debate. Some fights do heavily rely on strategy. Here's how things really have gone down, the actual opinions of what we think of OP and HxH have become less relevant unfortunately because of tsudecimo's dirty antics. 1. He resorts to childish name calling rather than actually talking about the subject at hand. 2. He's shown that he'd rather deny an obvious 100% fact rather than admit he was just wrong about this one little thing. It really wasn't even important up until the point where he stuck with his guns and kept denying it. (That's something politicians like to do, by the way.) 3. He asks what makes me think he's interested in even having this conversation to begin with, ignoring the fact that he himself initiated the damn conversation by replying to my post. That's 3 strikes, he's out. |
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| While there are fights about strategy in OP... they kinda suck. Like... they are the silly kind of strategy. The are-they-even-trying-? strategy. As for the Fairy Tail post, that's no fact. Actually, what you posted is somewhat my sentiment toward OP. And you should ignore trolls, you've distracted them long enough to keep them from "rewatching" HxH in order to get attention, anyway. |
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judals said: While there are fights about strategy in OP... they kinda suck. Like... they are the silly kind of strategy. Well I'd say that's the way to express your opinion, not the way the other guy did it. Its not like I'm out to take on everyone who doesn't like One Piece. Its a very popular manga and anime and naturally there will be plenty who don't like it. Though just fyi, I see you say that OP has "weak world building". And that's one thing that honestly does baffle me a bit. Because I happen to think One Piece's greatest strength is its world building combined with the sense of adventure... I mean come on, its got so many different nations and factions with different motivations involved and you call that weak world building? Its just about the most vast and detailed world that both manga and anime as a whole have to offer. You might dislike One Piece's world, which is understandable enough. But to call it weak? That just doesn't seem right in an objective sense considering how big it all is and how Oda plans things hundreds of chapters ahead of time. |
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| One Piece's world building is straightforward and simple, while can be really good at times, usually it's just another setting to spend another arc. The "many" factions and "many" anything is a product of its length, majorly, and its plot of sailing around the world, secondly. (As opposted to Naruto, for example, where it's set in a hotspot area of war). Finally, the complexity goes as far as connecting guy x to guy y or event 3, it doesn't feel like the "intricate web" of connections as it tries to be for me. It also has a limit upon itself. As "bizarre" or "silly" (depending on how you see it) events are, they are never daring. It never goes in different directions while managing to maintain a good transition. The biggest things ever done were 1) New world, which already existed, so simply re-branding the second half with a different name and 2) Haki, which is quite too simple of an addition as well as an underwhelming solution to the logia problem. To a lesser extent there's the dial technology, but I enjoyed that far more than the others. I think the world building is good for a shonen, but somewhat weak in itself considering the length and all the opportunities. |
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| On one side there is a horde of pirate crews all who have their own motivations and factions, with the 4 Yonkou who control big areas of the New World. Then on the other there are the marines which has its own sense of politics, the world government who somewhat controls the marines, the rich nobles who enslave people, the rebel army, various nations with their own individual kings and rulers, diverse places that build the world like Skypiea. Then there's also big events like the Whitebeard War, Straw Hats declaring war against the world government, and the effects that such events have on the world. Everything that's happened with Fishman Island. Events happening in Dressrossa I could just go on and on and on... I mean come on, say ya don't like it. But weak...? No way. I can't think of a single shounen anywhere near the same length that has a more well built world than One Piece. Certainly Naruto and Bleach don't. HxH is great but its like 1/4th the length. Yu Yu Hakusho, Dragonball, Kenshin, D. Gray-man? Not really, they just have good characters, stories and fights. The actual world building is barely even present in comparison to everything simultaneously going on in One Piece. |
LayedBackMar 26, 2014 2:16 PM
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| Yes. There are a lot of things going on. Just not complex or revolutionary by themselves. Put them together and they are more "stacked" than intertwined. Like I said the connections don't sell for me. If you don't mind, I'll compare to HxH a little bit: (and make it at least on-topic, lol) Let's say, introducing something completely (minus the foreshadowing) new to the world, such as Nen, and making it not only work but suddenly become the driving force of the show at the time, and it keeps self-generating its own mythologies or as Setsu put it, "pseudo-sciences" -I don't mean it as sarcastically- even outside the context of the story, it's up and running. That's a thousand of these "minuscule connections" on their own. Making that leap and actually having it work, that's brilliant imo. Conversely, the introduction of haki was underwhelming to me because 1) too simple to work with, even within the show and what's given to us 2) we already had DFs and many other ideas to make seem anything special. I mean to me, Nen wasn't a location, or a flashback of a certain person knowing/fighting another person, just a concept, but it added a whole new dimension to the world. This type of ballsy leap alone, if done correctly, I would consider it revolutionary. Let alone someone who had done it 3 times, while managing to keep the consistency in-between. These "leaps" aside, I also consider having those type of connections you mentioened, while not as numerous, done more gracefully, done with characters who had depth, rather than seemingly mannequins (imo) is much better world building. Finally, having done all this, within a shonen than defies all the tropes and conventions, going on in its own direction, having no "limit" and being able to go anywhere while still maintaining story focus, is the best part of it all. HxH aside, I'd consider JoJo, Sinbad no Bouken, Berserk, FMA, and F/Z have better world-building for me. OP stands above the other shonen still in that regard. |
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LayedBack said: Excuse me? You initiated the discussion by replying to me about One Piece to begin with. You can't really have it both ways, I mean damn. Basically you just want to 'get in peoples faces' with your opinion but when someone actually responds you get all defensive to the point of being insulting. You really need to check yourself. I didn't initiate any ''discussion''. That was simply a passing comment, that I shouldn't have made, considering how upset it made you. The point of my initial post was to point out the wrong usage of the word ''objective'' on your part. Did you actually see me have an argument before? because you keep describing me, like we have had, or you saw countless of arguments before. I will just take this as more baseless assumptions. I don't even have to give you specific examples, it should be obvious that their are strategic fights in One Piece. Whenever a character uses a special ability against an opponent, that's strategic, smart one. Especially when its tailor-made to fight the opponent. Remember Luffy vs Crocodile? Or did you not even see that and you're just making baseless claims? Whenever someone uses a counterattack against an opponent, or finds a way to fight against a certain Devil Fruit, that's also strategic. Whenever a group makes a plan, that's strategy too. Looks likes you have a broad defintion of the word ''strategic'', if you want to include something like Luffy's fight with Croc as strategic. Going by this logic almost every fight in any form is a strategic fight, if someone attacks and the other person tries to block it with something, that must mean he is countering him, thus it's strategic fight, the same goes for a group of people who decide on a plan, the plan is to kill the enemies, thus their fight will be strategic in this logic. I consider Luffy's fight as much of strategic fight as Naruto's fight against Kiba when he farted, to counter Kiba's sensitive nose. A strategic fight should have strategy as it's main theme and drive. Not just some very very simplistic elements of strateg. And from what I saw in one piece, it didn't have genuine strategic fights. And before you say it as some kind of defense to your argument, yes One Piece does use the 'Nakama power' type thing that just about every other battle shounen does as well. But that doesn't mean that strategy is not used in fights. Its used in pretty much every single major fight in the anime. You're wrong about this one thing, you can't deny facts. And when you do its obvious to see just how personal you're taking this. Why would I bring that up? it has no relevance to whether or not a fight is strategic and we are not talking about the quality of one piece fights for me to bring it up. The only battle anime/manga that I read/watched that uses Nakama power are one piece and Fairy Tail, so I don't know about ''every other battle shounen''. You don't just get to say this is a fact and this isn't, and I'm wrong and you are right. I hate to break it to ya, but no it's not an objective fact, so just stop using ''wrong'', ''factual'' ''objective'' so much. LayedBack said: 1. He resorts to childish name calling rather than actually talking about the subject at hand. I was describing your behavior. Childish or not, I thought it was rather accurate. I did talk at the ''subject matter''. ''Butthurt'' was typed at the last sentence of my post. We were not having an argument yet, at that point, so that wasn't ad hominem if that's what you are implying. He's shown that he'd rather deny an obvious 100% fact rather than admit he was just wrong about this one little thing. It really wasn't even important up until the point where he stuck with his guns and kept denying it. (That's something politicians like to do, by the way.) It's not a fact. You keep repeating that is a fact and using multiple words doesn't make it one. You also could have taken the ''one piece doesn't have strategic fights'' as my mere opinion, but alas you are still clouded by your impression of me stating ''facts'' because I didn't add ''imo'' at the end of my sentence. God forbid, people don't state the obvious for you. 3. He asks what makes me think he's interested in even having this conversation to begin with, ignoring the fact that he himself initiated the damn conversation by replying to my post. Already covered this. I wasn't even planning to reply to this, so consider this my last post. You can assume you ''won'' and I ''lost'' here because of me not continuing this petty argument but I frankly don't care. Congrats you ''won''. |
tsudecimoMar 26, 2014 2:31 PM
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| It seems to me like you're just talking about nen and haki though... I thought we were talking about world building here. I mean sure maybe in a sense it can have an effect on that, but those are more under the category of fighting systems than anything else. World building is more about the actual world itself and different factions, nations, ideals and relationships that effect on the world and everyone in it. Idon't see why you think fighting abilities have that much of an effect on world building? You can just as easily replace Nen with Haki, or even just people fighting with swords and armor like in Kingdom, and just because one ability is more interesting to you personally doesn't mean one title necessarily has better world building than the other. Each of the 3 stories (One Piece, HxH and Kingdom) have good world building despite the differences in fighting systems. As for Berserk, that's part of the reason I made sure to say Shounen. Its on my favorites list, and I do happen to think its the only manga I've read that beats One Piece in world building. -------- *tsudecimo* just thought I'd tell you I'm not bothering to read that post. You've acted a little immature in our discussion and I only hope you can learn from your mistakes that I mentioned above so that next time you can actually get your point across in a concise and reasonable manner. |
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| Oh but it does contribute majorly to world building. I don't view it as 'just' geographically expanding the world or adding more people to the social network. Other dimensions factor into it for me. The location itself never impresses me because I've probably seen it all. Skypiea had some nice ideas stored in about the details, which is what mattered to me, despite skyislands being a cliche, for a final fantasy fan such as myself. And Nen, actually, eventually leads to the second point I consider revolutionary; Greed Island. Where the show suddenly goes into a virtual reality style (and even then, turns out there's even more to it), and the game itself created so much lore and connections for the series, ones I actually consider intricate. Even after they left it, there's still so much I was curious about on that one single island. It's especially in a battle shonen that implementing powers can contribute a great deal to the building of the world, literally and figuratively. And if we talk about 'connections', I think the little interactions between Illumi, Hisoa, Chrolla, mainly (and too many others to list) are of the desired quality. |
GrunbeldMar 26, 2014 2:50 PM
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jonnyhan said: Fierce_Deity22 said: I agree the narration started ruining everything. I can't think of a better way of presenting the narrative without the narration. He is not merely repeating what we already know like One Piece does for 5 minutes of every episode. He is often telling us the innate qualities and thinking of all the characters in the battle where dialogues aren't being exchanged. It probably is a hit or miss style, I personally love it. Take it slow like a glass of Whiskey. That is not often the case. It's actually the complete opposite. Very rarely does the narrator even step in in One Piece. I'd reckon we've had enough narration to cover every single time the narrator speaks in all 600+ episodes of One Piece in the last few HxH episodes. Narration by itself is not a bad thing. |
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tsudecimo said: Why would I bring that up? it has no relevance to whether or not a fight is strategic and we are not talking about the quality of one piece fights for me to bring it up. The only battle anime/manga that I read/watched that uses Nakama power are one piece and Fairy Tail, so I don't know about ''every other battle shounen''. I thought your favorite anime was Naruto. Just in the first episode, you have Naruto who manages to create 1000 clones after Mizuki hurt Iruka. You even have countless characters saying people are stronger when they have something or someone to protect. Nakama power is a common trope in shonen, and they're nothing wrong with it in itself, willpower plays a huge role in any physical activities like fights. It all depends on how its use within the story. |
judals said: One Piece's world building is straightforward and simple, while can be really good at times, usually it's just another setting to spend another arc. The "many" factions and "many" anything is a product of its length, majorly, and its plot of sailing around the world, secondly. (As opposted to Naruto, for example, where it's set in a hotspot area of war). Finally, the complexity goes as far as connecting guy x to guy y or event 3, it doesn't feel like the "intricate web" of connections as it tries to be for me. It also has a limit upon itself. As "bizarre" or "silly" (depending on how you see it) events are, they are never daring. It never goes in different directions while managing to maintain a good transition. The biggest things ever done were 1) New world, which already existed, so simply re-branding the second half with a different name and 2) Haki, which is quite too simple of an addition as well as an underwhelming solution to the logia problem. To a lesser extent there's the dial technology, but I enjoyed that far more than the others. I think the world building is good for a shonen, but somewhat weak in itself considering the length and all the opportunities. But the world building completely blows HxH out of the water. I cannot even attribute world-building to HxH anymore than I would do to a regular city setting. They literally just go from one place to another and nothing is explored about the actual setting. In situations with lots of potential it is just simply wasted. Greed Island was just as typical a setting as the green fields they were on before, and too much time was spent on exposition of the game rules and nothing more. The Hunter exam arguably had the best of it, but everything is abandoned after that, and the next time we see magical beasts, they are just thrown in as a random foe with convenient great power. You're right that the very nature of One Piece of sailing around the world leans towards the variety of settings, but that doesn't change it from being an advantage of the series. In OP not only is the setting explored, but the structure of government and history too. While we are just told there is a Hunter Committee, we are given no info on its inner workings and member structure (although I hear the next arc does more of this which I'm looking forward to). We are told there are magical beasts, but we spend majority of the time without seeing any until they are conveniently needed for a plot segue, and the exposition of power was disjointed in continuity unlike haki. Saying "the many factions is a product of its length", falls flat when other long runners cannot even provide coherent groups, and complexity of plot IS the connection of characters and events. How did you miss that? Even my little sister knows that. The only way to miss that is to choose not to do so (no surprise really ;) The past affects the present and the present affects the future. There really is no contest. As for Nen, the only real major difference from other shounen fighting styles is the number of branches and basic application. That makes it a more complex system, but not groundbreakingly so. First of all, its roots are in typical aura powers.It has 5 major branches with the last one dedicated to miscellaneous powers like paramecia devil fruit. And putting aside abilities, the one with the more nen is dominant in basic application of strengthening etc. Where Nen really shines is in the method of discerning which group an individual falls under and the extent of that ability. The contracts and limitations are also a good idea, but very messy in application. Miscellaneous abilities have much more severe limitations than others, and there is no root basis to measure one against the other, so it just ends up as whichever is more convenient. |
RedRoseFringMar 26, 2014 3:11 PM
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