shanimebib said: I don't think the level of ban will be to that extent. people exaggerate stuff and make it sound like its 2012 already. ... Shows like Yogusa no Sora should never air in the first place anyways. That should be it. Thumbs up to this. |
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
| This news is disheartening to say the least. Sad day for the industry, even if it had it coming. Hopefully, we'll see a major backlash to this bill that'll either mean its quick death, or we'll be seeing some major changes to the industry. |
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ariapokoteng said: shanimebib said: I don't think the level of ban will be to that extent. people exaggerate stuff and make it sound like its 2012 already. ... Shows like Yogusa no Sora should never air in the first place anyways. That should be it. Thumbs up to this. If the PM actually made this law, the panic would be down significantly since he's understanding and wouldn't mind negotiating a creative solution or two to keep both anime fans and the politicians happy. However, this is the work of Ishihara, a great evil and racist that's a mix of Phelps and Hitler and has no regard for anyone in the industry or fans, he only wants to be in office for life and he is willing to destroy anything including Japan to do so. |
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| I'm pretty sure most people who are into ecchi are 17+ anyway. That said, watching ecchi is probably pretty similar to watching porn in japan, so people may still buy it in the mature section (Which is where it probably SHOULD be anyway...) So i can't really see this killing off ecchi altogether. |
Hoppy said: If the PM actually made this law, the panic would be down significantly since he's understanding and wouldn't mind negotiating a creative solution or two to keep both anime fans and the politicians happy. However, this is the work of Ishihara, a great evil and racist that's a mix of Phelps and Hitler and has no regard for anyone in the industry or fans, he only wants to be in office for life and he is willing to destroy anything including Japan to do so. Well, it's not up to me to decide what kind of person he is. Putting aside that I'm not japanese and my opinion doesn't decide anything. And I'd like to take an optimistic view on what's gonna happen next.If the law isn't gonna work good - then the people will do something, I guess. If it's gonna work fine - then so be it. And even in the worst-of-the-worst-case scenario there's still lots of Anime that was already produced for the last half of the century (not to mention manga, VN, Ranobe and stuff), so I'm pretty sure that my whole life won't be enough to take a look at all of them. |
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
ariapokoteng said: shanimebib said: I don't think the level of ban will be to that extent. people exaggerate stuff and make it sound like its 2012 already. ... Shows like Yogusa no Sora should never air in the first place anyways. That should be it. Thumbs up to this. So you support censorship also? |
| I support mass weeaboo hysteria. |
| aww,,this is totally awful ... even though im faraway from japan,, its just too hard T,T |
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| After going through Bill 156's Total Scope that is essentially the translation of the major points of the actual bill, it seems it is indeed what I assumed it would be. Here are some quotations from the infamous Bill 156: Bill 156's Total Scope said: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.” No matter how you look at it, this easily gives the idea that the bill was made explicitly to put an end to recent anime/manga adaptations that show a possible relationship/ romance development between siblings/ half-siblings. As much as many of us find pleasure in forbidden things, or reasons to justify why things like that shouldn't be allowed in a healthy society, you cannot overlook the fact that it might have detrimental affect on youth. Encouraging something that wouldn't be otherwise accepted by the society might lead to crime, mental breakdown, and even suicidal acts. Just like I said, stuff like Yogusa no Sora. Also rejoice Manami and Kuroneko fans since after seeing this being implemented, Aniki ending with Kirino is history. Bill 156's Total Scope said: “Any sexually arousing posing on the behalf of children under the age of 13 wholly or partially naked, or wearing swimwear or only underwear, published in books or featured in film, must take into account of how the child’s mind and body may be harmed by becoming the object of sexual desire, and therefore parental guardians must exercise parental responsibilities to prevent and educate minors from becoming featured in such work or child pornography.” No. They are not getting banned. More like the authority is actually making the parents/guardians responsible for the minors. This also means like someone referred to in one of the previous posts, Nadeko was 14. Most of the characters in anime are aged from 14-17. So regardless of them wearing swimsuit, bloomers are out of the scope. And even if they are, the bill urges parents to take responsibility. There is not a single reference to Banning the substance at all. But the most interesting thing will be how you implement the following: Bill 156's Total Scope said: Tokyo’s definition of how it deems publicly available material as harmful to minors will be changed. - Previously, “Any material that may be detrimental toward the healthy development of youth because of their capacity to be sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior.” was the criteria. - Now the criteria will be expanded to include: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.” - Any material that is excessively breaches this standard can be deemed to be “harmful material” by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government unilaterally and thereby restrict their circulation from all minors (0-17 of age). Now this is what is interesting. Does that mean it covers the scope of Yagami Light killing people with his Death Note, or Sakata Gintoki taking on 10 thugs with his wooden sword, or Ayasaki Hayate jumping from his bicycle on rooftop of a runaway car to rescue Ojou-sama, or Lelouch Lamperouge commanding a group of Britannian soldiers to 'die' with his Geass, or Heiwajima Shizuo using a vending machine to settle scores with Orihara Izaya? I seriously don't think so. They were already under the previous criteria anyways. Since those by no means are real, and I seriously don't see them having an adverse impression on youth by any means. Unless, I am proved wrong and the authority is actually planning to obliterate the whole anime/manga culture picking up on everything out there, I mean absolutely everything (under the scope that I mentioned, with the examples of anime), only then I will find reasons to hate the bill. For now, I have no worries, and like ariapokoteng said, there are enough material out there you can save your life from. so grab them from www and wait until midway 2011 to see how it works. For me though, I have so far nothing against it as long as it doesn't exaggerate. Never was a Kiss x Sis fan and despised anything like Yogusa no Sora anyways. Nb: the above comments as always, are my personal opinion and nothing more. you can criticize/ breakdown with arguments/ give logical reason to back them or nullify them. I will simply appreciate no random bashing for someone else's personal opinion in this issue which involve something that we all love. Anime and Manga. Edited: quoted as Bill 156 for my sanity. |
shanimebibDec 15, 2010 11:20 AM
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Drunk_Samurai said: So you support censorship also? I'm not 100% pro, but yes. I think it's better to be this way. shanimebib said: Here are some quotations from the infamous Bill 156: Now that's the best news so far. Thank you very much. |
ariapokotengDec 15, 2010 10:26 AM
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
| As for games a lot of RPGs even big name ones like Final Fantasy may have a little to worry about (they'll have to tone down on the skimpy outfits and so does the Tales of series both tend to have really sadistic scenes in each and there's also the reoccurring innuendo in the Tales of Series, ever listen to one of the skits in the Japan only games in the series I can point out at least 3-4 such instances in each (the Narikiri Dungeon games have less than mothership titles and the first one has none). I feel bad for NIS and Atlus, they tend to have the fanservice games more Atlus than NIS although NIS did do Criminal Girls. NIS will survive if they start doing the Marl Kingdom series again, I'm not too sure about Atlus though, but they may survive too. Big names like Namco Bandai, SE, and Nintendo will survive (even more so if they start relocated their company totally to NA). One other game affected by the bill is Rune Factory, as some of these actually let you marry lolis (portrayal of child marriage which illegal in Japan and the US for the matter, the legal marriage age is 18 in most places, 15 in certain parts of the Middle East, and 16 in certain midwestern states providing there is parental permission). I wouldn't be so pissed if it was just for anime/manga since I could just go back to gaming, I would miss anime/manga greatly but there would be an alternative. |
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shanimebib said: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.” I'm completely against that since like I said before censorship is wrong no matter what the reason. ariapokoteng said: Drunk_Samurai said: So you support censorship also? I'm not 100% pro, but yes. I think it's better to be this way. Then you are absolutely insane. |
Then you are absolutely insane. Who knows. It's not like it's gonna get banned completely. They're just putting things to the places they should be. And regarding whether censorship is right or wrong - as for me, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about broadcasting on the TV some show, that, for example, praises child raping in the name of "You_name_it" or encourages of torturing some cats to death just because it's believed to be fun by the creators of such thing. I guess some would say "Then just don't watch it, nobody forces you.". That's true, and that's why I don't say these things should be prohibited and banned completely. Everybody likes differents stuf and if someone finds such things amusing, than it's their right. Just don't talk to me about this stuff, hehe. But if I'd have...um...an oportunity to express my feelings towards such things, I would clearly and honestly say that I find it gross and that these things shouldn't air on the TV. |
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
Drunk_Samurai said: You will still be able to get what's already out, it's just that it will be classified as "adult content".shanimebib said: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.” I'm completely against that since like I said before censorship is wrong no matter what the reason. The law is supposed to protect children from stuff with rape, incest, pedophilia etc. in it. Authors can still make manga with those things if they want to, but their availability will be limited. The problem lies in whether publishers will be willing to pick up such titles, given the penalties attached to "adult content". It may be censorship, but it's indirect censorship if it is, as adults will still technically be able to read as much rape and incest as they like. I say "technically" because they can't read what isn't published as a result of the publication rejecting a manga because it is too risky and/or wouldn't be profitable enough due to the restrictions on where they can sell it as a result of these laws. One point of interest is whether having a romantic relationship with a catgirl will count as bestiality and be restricted as a result, assuming they don't show any explicit sex, but show an clear-cut romantic relationship that implies that they are willing to have sex. I can imagine quite a bit of rage if they tried to ban nekomimi (and kemonomimi in general at that) romances, even if most other generic ecchi harem would be (relatively) safe since they don't show any illegal sex. |
Rosa_FOEtidaDec 15, 2010 11:24 AM
Current FAL Ranking + Previous best::  [ |
| Why in the world everyone is quoting as if those are my words, Mattaku mou~ /me takes the blame anyways and edits the message of concern. :/ FOE-tan said: One point of interest is whether having a romantic relationship with a catgirl will count as bestiality and be restricted as a result, assuming they don't show any explicit sex, but show an clear-cut romantic relationship that implies that they are willing to have sex. I can imagine quite a bit of rage if they tried to ban nekomimi (and kemonomimi in general at that) romances, even if most other generic ecchi harem would be (relatively) safe since they don't show any illegal sex. I don't think its illegal to show sexual interest towards nekomimi. since they are not legally illegal. XD |
shanimebibDec 15, 2010 11:28 AM
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shanimebib said: Why in the world everyone is quoting as if those are my words, Mattaku mou~ /me takes the blame anyways and edits the message of concern. :/ FOE-tan said: One point of interest is whether having a romantic relationship with a catgirl will count as bestiality and be restricted as a result, assuming they don't show any explicit sex, but show an clear-cut romantic relationship that implies that they are willing to have sex. I can imagine quite a bit of rage if they tried to ban nekomimi (and kemonomimi in general at that) romances, even if most other generic ecchi harem would be (relatively) safe since they don't show any illegal sex. I don't think its illegal to show sexual interest towards nekomimi. since they are not legally illegal. XD Well no, it won't be outright restricted or banned providing the nekomimi or kemonomimi in question isn't a loli. Something like Otome Youkai Zakuro wouldn't be restricted (providing they don't go too much on the Hozuki and Bonbori drinking alcohol). Oh dear that's another anime for the adults only pile, Ishihara must be impeached immediately, even non ecchi and non-sexual anime are affected by this. Someone needs to spread some Ishihara hate on Youtube, the word must be spread and the world needs to know. |
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ariapokoteng said: Then you are absolutely insane. Who knows. It's not like it's gonna get banned completely. They're just putting things to the places they should be. And regarding whether censorship is right or wrong - as for me, I wouldn't be enthusiastic about broadcasting on the TV some show, that, for example, praises child raping in the name of "You_name_it" or encourages of torturing some cats to death just because it's believed to be fun by the creators of such thing. I guess some would say "Then just don't watch it, nobody forces you.". That's true, and that's why I don't say these things should be prohibited and banned completely. Everybody likes differents stuf and if someone finds such things amusing, than it's their right. Just don't talk to me about this stuff, hehe. But if I'd have...um...an oportunity to express my feelings towards such things, I would clearly and honestly say that I find it gross and that these things shouldn't air on the TV. You also implied that shows that are already airing should not show on TV. |
| @shanimebib it would be wonderful if it just was limited to that, and for now that seems to be all it will cover, because that, though unfortunant, would be tolerable, there's plenty of incest/loli/etc. Doujins/already released series out there that COULD fill the void of the fans... i guess but the bill also has lots of loose ends that are debatable points, and while i would put faith in some people to uphold the spirit of the bill, it's Ishihara, he's gonna fuck it up for everybody eventually thanks for the info though! |
ShadowGilgamesh said: @shanimebib it would be wonderful if it just was limited to that, and for now that seems to be all it will cover, because that, though unfortunant, would be tolerable, there's plenty of incest/loli/etc. Doujins/already released series out there that COULD fill the void of the fans... i guess but the bill also has lots of loose ends that are debatable points, and while i would put faith in some people to uphold the spirit of the bill, it's Ishihara, he's gonna fuck it up for everybody eventually thanks for the info though! Since I don't know much about Ishihara (but this one surely, one of the worst villains in anime), I probably can't comprehend the level of suppression there will be. I just put my opinion based on what I understood with the scope of the regulation as it was translated. Bear in mind that I have no personal grudge against those who love incest/ecchi shows. Also, I did mention that I will hate the bill if they do exaggerate the scope (as what you have said, it has some loop holes) and start picking on everything out there. A very good example of certain minors getting breakdown over something such as in an anime discussion thread can be when they blatantly say "Disagreeing with me is like you saying "my opinion is wrong" since they can never put an argument. :| Thanks for your understanding Gilga. I too am hoping that it wouldn't be a case of absolute obliteration. |
shanimebibDec 15, 2010 3:10 PM
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ShadowGilgamesh said: @shanimebib it would be wonderful if it just was limited to that, and for now that seems to be all it will cover, because that, though unfortunant, would be tolerable, there's plenty of incest/loli/etc. Doujins/already released series out there that COULD fill the void of the fans... i guess but the bill also has lots of loose ends that are debatable points, and while i would put faith in some people to uphold the spirit of the bill, it's Ishihara, he's gonna fuck it up for everybody eventually thanks for the info though! How the hell can you support people upholding the "spirit of the bill" when that just means censorship? |
Drunk_Samurai said: How the hell can you support people upholding the "spirit of the bill" when that just means censorship? It's pretty easy, and quite common, actually. People are eager to protect themselves from assumed threats, and extend that "protection" to others, whether they want it or not, even if it means giving up some of the most basic freedoms. -shrug- It's been that way for awhile. Science as blasphemy / a crime, witch burning, bans on art, Prohibition, criminalization of victimless crime, protection of imagined individuals the world over in otherwise largely democratic nations... Is it really that surprising? Depressing, surely, but surprising? It doesn't have to make sense to everyone, just enough people, or enough people with a say, to get it codified into law. Oddly enough, it seems easier to get those laws passed than to repeal them, even when they aren't in line within certain interpretations of the spirit of the law. |
shanimebib said: I know everything should have its creativity and intellectual right (be it ecchi, perverted etc.) but there should be a standard of how horrible they can be. While ecchi shows were always fun to watch, in recent years, they became an art of panty flashes, boeings and naked bath scenes/ onsens without any decent plot or anything. While I am certain that this will take major toll in anime/maga industry, if it is really forced and thereby brings more anime like Daa! Daa! Daa! and less anime like Seikon no Qwaser (preferably not a single one at all), then be it. Honestly. Over the last four or five years, anime quality hit significant lows and we had to put up with shits like Queen's Blade as we wait forever for another anime like Berserk. And who are you to judge exactly? Can we please see your degree in anime quality? People with this attitude right within the fan community sicken and disgust me. Japanese animation has always been edgy and willing to go places American entertainment is unwilling to tread, from Sailor Moon with its bare breasts and same-sex couples back in the early 90's to the Kodomo no Jikans and Yosuga no Soras of today. If you want entertainment that's safely inside your comfort zone and is never going to offend, why the hell did you even become an anime fan? There's a whole world of bland, puritanical Two And A Half Men clones out there that you can rot your brain with anytime without ever having to experience an impure thought about incest. Speaking for similiarly minded anime fans worldwide, I'll point out that you're welcome to leave our fan community taking your selfish and irresponsible opinions with you anytime. |
ph4zr said: It doesn't have to make sense to everyone, just enough people, or enough people with a say, to get it codified into law. Oddly enough, it seems easier to get those laws passed than to repeal them, even when they aren't in line within certain interpretations of the spirit of the law. I couldn't agree more. This is how the world works. No one is bothered much about how the mass think anyways. As long as you have the say, you get your thing sorted. Otherwise, in all honesty, we are just nobodies sharing our opinions regarding this issue. case649 said: If you want entertainment that's safely inside your comfort zone and is never going to offend, why the hell did you even become an anime fan? I became an anime fan through Dragon Ball Z, Macross, Gundam, CardCaptor Sakura, Rurouni Kenshin and many more quality shows. Sorry for ruining your SnQ and QB obsession. I have no obligation to tell you why I became an anime fan, but since you practically begged and seemed like at the point of having a mental breakdown, just decided to pity you and let you know. Someone as old as you are should grow up already (or put your birthday hidden) and put arguments that would sound logical than attempting to bite the head off someone with whom your taste doesn't match. If it requires a degree to tell that SnQ and QB lack quality, then here goes: It doesn't sicken or disgust me though, having people like you in the anime community, since I have been long been around and seen plenty of cases like you. mochiron, you're not the 649th one. there have been plenty more, they just never seem to stop popping up every now and then. On another note, I have been around long before you even physically existed. Too bad I won't ask for your birth certificate, although it seems dubious for a 26 year old to get sickened so easily. ~ anyways I humbly refuse your request, and will be around long after you quit being active. ;) |
shanimebibDec 15, 2010 6:11 PM
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shanimebib said: I became an anime fan through Dragon Ball Z, Macross, Gundam, CardCaptor Sakura, Rurouni Kenshin and many more quality shows. Sorry for ruining your SnQ and QB obsession. I have no obligation to tell you why I became an anime fan, but since you practically begged and seemed like at the point of having a mental breakdown, just decided to pity you and let you know. Someone as old as you are should grow up already (or put your birthday hidden) and put arguments that would sound logical than attempting to bite the head off someone with whom your taste doesn't match. If it requires a degree to tell that SnQ and QB lack quality, then here goes: It doesn't sicken or disgust me though, having people like you in the anime community, since I have been long been around and seen plenty of cases like you. mochiron, you're not the 649th one. there have been plenty more, they just never seem to stop popping up every now and then. For all of your poetic waxing about the ways of the world, you don't seem to have ever learned the lesson about it not revolving around you. Unless you've got a damn good reason to be dishing out judgments, I don't give a damn what your definition of quality is. If you have a problem with content, get off everyone else's goddamn back and turn on the black and white movie channel. You know, act like the grown-up you're so defensive about being? shanimebib said: On another note, I have been around long before you even physically existed. Too bad I won't ask for your birth certificate, although it seems dubious for a 26 year old to get sickened so easily. ~ anyways I humbly refuse your request, and will be around long after you quit being active. ;) Yes, well this explains a lot, actually. If that is the case, I enthusiastically look forward to your gradual physical and mental decline, and gradual loss of social relevance along with all the other aging bigots, racists and homophobes who insist on "protecting" everyone else from your ridiculous fears and insecurities. ;) |
| Quality is entirely subjective, a good example of this was someone recently referring to Dragonball Z as quality. |
case649 said: shanimebib said: I know everything should have its creativity and intellectual right (be it ecchi, perverted etc.) but there should be a standard of how horrible they can be. While ecchi shows were always fun to watch, in recent years, they became an art of panty flashes, boeings and naked bath scenes/ onsens without any decent plot or anything. While I am certain that this will take major toll in anime/maga industry, if it is really forced and thereby brings more anime like Daa! Daa! Daa! and less anime like Seikon no Qwaser (preferably not a single one at all), then be it. Honestly. Over the last four or five years, anime quality hit significant lows and we had to put up with shits like Queen's Blade as we wait forever for another anime like Berserk. And who are you to judge exactly? Can we please see your degree in anime quality? People with this attitude right within the fan community sicken and disgust me. Japanese animation has always been edgy and willing to go places American entertainment is unwilling to tread, from Sailor Moon with its bare breasts and same-sex couples back in the early 90's to the Kodomo no Jikans and Yosuga no Soras of today. If you want entertainment that's safely inside your comfort zone and is never going to offend, why the hell did you even become an anime fan? There's a whole world of bland, puritanical Two And A Half Men clones out there that you can rot your brain with anytime without ever having to experience an impure thought about incest. Speaking for similiarly minded anime fans worldwide, I'll point out that you're welcome to leave our fan community taking your selfish and irresponsible opinions with you anytime. Spoken like a true fan. You win 1 internets. |
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Hoppy said: I feel bad for NIS and Atlus, they tend to have the fanservice games more Atlus than NIS although NIS did do Criminal Girls. NIS will survive if they start doing the Marl Kingdom series again, I'm not too sure about Atlus though, but they may survive too. Big names like Namco Bandai, SE, and Nintendo will survive (even more so if they start relocated their company totally to NA). I completely forgot I wanted to respond to this, guess what? NIS isn't based in tokyo! woohoo! I remember reading an interview with the head of the company, and there were two things he said that I loved. When asked if they were going to try target western audiences more, he said "we don't know western audiences..we're just going to do what we know, and if there are some people outside of japan that enjoy it, then all the better" (not an exact quote) and that they had no need to move to a big city like tokyo, if anything working in a small town means less distractions from working on games. I've loved Nippon Ichi even more since then. |
No criminal acts. That means no killing, no stealing, no carrying of weapons, no sharing of bicycles, no smoking/drinking for minors (in fact since it says "promoting" criminal behaviour, it could be argued that no smoking/drinking will be allowed at all). Basically anything with action could be considered promoting cruel/criminal behaviour. Meanwhile the "stirring sexual emotions" part will similarly affect anything with fanservice or romance. So basically, only stuff like Hidamari Sketch will remain. No sharing of bicycles Yup, it's official. Anime is done for. If something as little as sharing bicycles is forbidden (because it violates traffic laws in Japan) on anime, who knows what else would be. School uniforms are probably also going to be banned so there goes like 75% of all anime. This is fucking ridiculous. You can tell that the Summer and Fall '11 lineups are going to be utter crap. Unless this gets repealed, I'm just going to stick with pre July 2011 anime. |
Project_MkUltraDec 15, 2010 7:44 PM
Drunk_Samurai said: How the hell can you support people upholding the "spirit of the bill" when that just means censorship? well, the spirit of the bill (as it has been presented, mind you) was to keep little kids and teens from getting their hands(err...sights?) on animes like Yosuga no Sora, now while i might not agree with OR SUPPORT the bill even at that level, i can at least see where they're coming from, of course it WON'T stay as senseable as it was when presented, so i still disagree with it entirely when i said "put faith in to uphold the spirit of the bill" it did not mean i supported it, i mearly ment that there are some people who would not abuse all the loose terms in the bill to cover almost every anime/manga, and that Ishihara was NOT one of them what the? "no sharing of bicycles" that's just sad, it's been passed for like, 24 hours and it's already being exploited, which backs up what i just said to drunk samurai |
ShadowGilgameshDec 15, 2010 10:08 PM
cr4sian_phil said: Spoken like a true fan. You win 1 internets. This + This. Happy? XD Now I am going back to the real world. I salute you. I take my defeat. God bless you. |
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And who are you to judge exactly? And who said it was judging? That's just one another opinion. If you want entertainment that's safely inside your comfort zone and is never going to offend, why the hell did you even become an anime fan? Because it's fun, isn't it? It's only natural to want more stuff you like and less stuff you don't like. without ever having to experience an impure thought about incest. No one ever said it's bad, actually. Well, it is bad indeed, in some ways. But nothing is wrong in, ehm, bringing this concept up. The problem is how do you do it. Needed to say, I didn't watch YnS or KxS, so I won't say whether this shows particularly are good or bad. Regardless of that, I still have to say that if I would want to see some, erm, "siblings love" anime, I would like to watch one that brings up more "love", and less "sex" idea. And eventually it all comes to this: Quality is entirely subjective Indeed it is. Everyone is free to love or to hate any anime/manga/visual novel/ranobe, nothing wrong with this. Which means everyone is allowed to want anime genre to "move" this or that way and express theirs thoughts about that. For all of your poetic waxing about the ways of the world, you don't seem to have ever learned the lesson about it not revolving around you Yep. It doesn't revolve around anyone. So it's only natural to have different opinions about something. It's more interesting that way. (Sorry for messy speech. It's rather hard to express your thoughts in a language you don't speak so often) |
ariapokotengDec 15, 2010 10:09 PM
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
shanimebib said: ph4zr said: It doesn't have to make sense to everyone, just enough people, or enough people with a say, to get it codified into law. Oddly enough, it seems easier to get those laws passed than to repeal them, even when they aren't in line within certain interpretations of the spirit of the law. I couldn't agree more. This is how the world works. No one is bothered much about how the mass think anyways. As long as you have the say, you get your thing sorted. Otherwise, in all honesty, we are just nobodies sharing our opinions regarding this issue. case649 said: If you want entertainment that's safely inside your comfort zone and is never going to offend, why the hell did you even become an anime fan? I became an anime fan through Dragon Ball Z, Macross, Gundam, CardCaptor Sakura, Rurouni Kenshin and many more quality shows. Sorry for ruining your SnQ and QB obsession. I have no obligation to tell you why I became an anime fan, but since you practically begged and seemed like at the point of having a mental breakdown, just decided to pity you and let you know. Someone as old as you are should grow up already (or put your birthday hidden) and put arguments that would sound logical than attempting to bite the head off someone with whom your taste doesn't match. If it requires a degree to tell that SnQ and QB lack quality, then here goes: It doesn't sicken or disgust me though, having people like you in the anime community, since I have been long been around and seen plenty of cases like you. mochiron, you're not the 649th one. there have been plenty more, they just never seem to stop popping up every now and then. On another note, I have been around long before you even physically existed. Too bad I won't ask for your birth certificate, although it seems dubious for a 26 year old to get sickened so easily. ~ anyways I humbly refuse your request, and will be around long after you quit being active. ;) I understand your point and I agree with you on the lack of quality show these day but it doesn't change that this law is nothing good. The major problem here is that people in Japan that aren't into anime perceive anime as cartoon and here comes the mentality of cartoon being for children. I can understand the restriction on TV but I can't understand the restriction on DVD. How do you expect minor to buy these anime? The price are basically scandalous to begin with and student with part time job have better use for their money than buying anime DVD so basically most of the buyer are adult. Fiction is fiction and reality is reality, while I can understand that they 'ban' the incest show, yuri and yaoi which purpose are only to service the fan (Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is bad, only that based on Japan society it is bad) I can't understand that this law will be able to 'ban' other show which, even if they possess some thing that aren't allowed in Japan, bring forth some important moral. |
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| And regarding "incest" thing. There is some Mitsuru Adachi's works about this. For example "Miyuki", which is about siblings' relationships, and "Jimbei", which is about foster father and daughter. I watched "Miyuki" 1983 adaptation and didn't see anything bad or immoral regarding this show. And I highly doubt that any of Mitsuru Adachi's works are going to be banned or restricted ever. So as I repeat, the problem is not that you do anime/manga/etc about such things, but how you do them. IMO, of course. |
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
| correct me if I'm wrong, didnt they ALREADY have the legal power to put an adult rating on anything that was deemed to be harmful for youth? if yes than the only thing this adds isl relationship illegal in real life in a glorified way. Previously, “Any material that may be detrimental toward the healthy development of youth because of their capacity to be sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior.” was the criteria. - Now the criteria will be expanded to include: “Any manga, animation, or pictures (but not including real life pictures or footage) that features either sexual or pseudo sexual acts that would be illegal in real life, or sexual or pseudo sexual acts between close relatives whose marriage would be illegal*, where such depictions and / or presentations unjustifiably glorify or exaggerate the activity.” - Any material that is excessively breaches this standard can be deemed to be “harmful material” by the Tokyo Metropolitan Government unilaterally and thereby restrict their circulation from all minors (0-17 of age). so whats the big deal with all you people overreacting? They already had the power, and we still got stuff like code geass, bakemonogatari etc and stuff like berserk, vagabond etc is still being published. I mean, it makes sense that the scope of the bill seems to be quite narrow. This is not the end for the freakin industry for God's sake people! and your stupid shounen and Final fantasy is safe, no need to freak out. @ariapokoteng, shanimebib - Its good to see some sane voices in this place, honestly. + OVER 9000!!! |
eyerokDec 16, 2010 1:00 AM
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| @koreye I do believe some realize they already had that power. From what I understand, though, Berserk contains some reference of rape, which is illegal, ergo quite probably taboo under the new rules. Depending on what "pseudo sexual" even means, high school dating, i.e. underage dating, and other romantic pursuits, might also be taboo. Although the grouping seems to be separate, since same sex marriage is apparently illegal in Japan, same sex relationships may or may not also be taboo as a theme. And, er... while I don't really have a preference myself, there are some very interesting ships in Code Geass, even in 'verse, which might not fly well, either. Code Geass didn't really emphasize those, though, so... -shrug- Edit: *shiver* Ugh, I just had an unpleasant flashback from Black Lagoon, and then one from Shana (1st S). Which is completely on-topic... >.< Besides, might one wonder, if they can already deem material "harmful" in that it encourages sexual or criminal activity in minors, why they need to further expand to apparently "not harmful" content relating to, interestingly enough, sexual and criminal activity? If it's so clearly "not harmful", then why does it need to be restricted from sale to minors? Especially since, although it supposedly exaggerates or promotes such behavior, it clearly doesn't compel such behavior, or it would have been restricted... One—or at least I, since I clearly can't speak for anyone else directly—must wonder at this. When it comes to censoring, I'm of the opinion—perhaps not shared by anyone else—that in assessing censorship laws, you must first judge how the laws might be abused. It may very well be true that nothing will really change for us. Considering the boycott, though, and the reports of publishers already telling authors to change their ways, or otherwise, I seriously doubt that's the case. |
bdxcrDec 16, 2010 3:08 AM
Considering the boycott, though, and the reports of publishers already telling authors to change their ways, or otherwise, I seriously doubt that's the cas I thought the reason for the boycott is not the law, but Ishihara's rude words towards mangakas? Smth like calling them no-lifers and stuff. |
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
ariapokoteng said: Considering the boycott, though, and the reports of publishers already telling authors to change their ways, or otherwise, I seriously doubt that's the cas I thought the reason for the boycott is not the law, but Ishihara's rude words towards mangakas? Smth like calling them no-lifers and stuff. -ponders- You could be right. No doubt I'd be more than a little miffed in that situation, I'm sure. I accept it's a possibility, but I think if it were just that, they'd still go to get out there and be seen. Granted, boycotting probably gives its fair share of publicity too. |
ariapokoteng said: If you want entertainment that's safely inside your comfort zone and is never going to offend, why the hell did you even become an anime fan? Because it's fun, isn't it? It's only natural to want more stuff you like and less stuff you don't like. Absolutely not. That would be insanely selfish, because: ariapokoteng said: For all of your poetic waxing about the ways of the world, you don't seem to have ever learned the lesson about it not revolving around you Yep. It doesn't revolve around anyone. So it's only natural to have different opinions about something. It's more interesting that way. Besides, I've watched and discussed so many different kinds of anime over the years, I've learned to accept the whole gestalt for what it is as an artform. I can appreciate an episode of Baccano as much as I can an episode of Yosuga no Sora. I don't have this distorted view some people have, that there was some point in the medium's history when Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop were a reflection of the entire breadth of the artform. (Incidentally, it occurs to me that every single title shanimebib listed as examples of quality in #268 were broadcast on American television, and were edited to American cartoon standards in the process. If that's the baseline for "quality" Japan is being asked to aspire to, anime is completely doomed.) koreye said: so whats the big deal with all you people overreacting? They already had the power, and we still got stuff like code geass, bakemonogatari etc and stuff like berserk, vagabond etc is still being published. I mean, it makes sense that the scope of the bill seems to be quite narrow. This is not the end for the freakin industry for God's sake people! and your stupid shounen and Final fantasy is safe, no need to freak out. @ariapokoteng, shanimebib - Its good to see some sane voices in this place, honestly. + OVER 9000!!! Apathy = / = Sanity. Make no mistake: If you're making excuses for this bill, you stand with the conservative politicians who want to control what's on television, and against the studios and creators who are boycotting Tokyo Anime Fair and speaking out against this thing in spite of being Japanese and fundamentally predisposed to social cooperation and harmony in ways Americans generally are not. |
Absolutely not. That would be insanely selfish Again, how come? I really can't understand this. If i like, say, Aria, there's nothing wrong with me wanting to watch more Iyashi-kei anime like it. If someone loves, say, Issho ni Training, and dislikes Aria, I have absolutely nothing against his likes. There's nothing wrong with him wanting more issho ni sleeping, issho ni bathing, issho ni cooking and stuff and stuff. How's that selfish? |
| Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some. |
| With the passage of Bill 156, the Tokyo Metropolitan Government will have the additional power to restrict any manga, anime and video games (but not live photography works) that feature any sexual acts that would violate criminal codes or Tokyo ordinances OR sexual depictions between close relatives who could not legally get married to be treated as adult material IF they are presented in “unjustifiably glorified or exaggerated manner. @ph4zr - according to DanKanemitsu, the reason the publishers boycotted was because they were not consulted on the law, a law that directly affects them. The fact that the governor used derogatory language and the way he's passing the language could both be the reasons for the way publishers reacted. Thats probably the main source of their grievance. What I'm trying to say is that the scope is not as broad; they could have restricted stuff like berserk by putting an adult rating under the powers they already had. If one were to look at the potential of a law being abused, then almost every law in the world can be abused. That's why the legal world has a whole literature on interpretation of the law, and these differences always exist. I think what one should first look at is what the law is being aimed at, and the policy considerations that surround it, both in the implementation and execution phase. Thats why i doubt stuff ike berserk or Black lagoon is the target of this law. Many elements of hentai have seeped into mainstream anime and manga, and I think the bill is targetting that. I'm not taking a position regarding this, only saying that its scope is not as wide as people think it is. in fact, its scope should be quite narrow. Besides the bill is not a ban. Nor is it a censor. It forces creators to self-regulate, yes, and they can get their stuff published and still make 'statements regarding difficult issues'; because the main victims are manga/anime that shows that sort of stuff just for the sake of it (for the enjoyment that it gives...*nosebleed*) @case649 - you're arguing the moral and ethical angle, right? my post is aimed at the "OMG END OF INDUSTRY" line of posts, not the merits or demerits of the law. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| This bill has got the attention of the LA Times http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-japan-sex-books-20101216,0,1679887.story Even better look at the very last paragraph it seems that even well respected college professors do not like the bill. "Legislators should be focusing their attention on improving sex education, rather than targeting the manga and anime industry," said Meiji University professor Yukari Fujimoto, a former manga comics editor. "The worst thing that this law might do is stifle artists' creativity. Their imagination is the reason Japanese manga and anime have so many fans worldwide." It seems that this bill is making heroes out of ordinary and respected persons. |
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iCab said: I don't know. I guess I am the only one who thinks restricting an artist to freely right or draw what he or she desires is wrong. it's not telling them they can't draw it, simply saying it's inappropriate for minors, though that means these things would probably go unpublished a bullshit claim, but not an outright ban on it, and as a lolicon, i am glad enough that it isn't an outright ban on anything EDIT: Just read that article, until now i didn't see anything about the bill that was anti loli, now it appears to be 100% ban on it, NOW it's time to take the bill, repeal it, burn it and give Ishihara the boot, 100% bans are NOT tolerable |
ShadowGilgameshDec 16, 2010 9:05 AM
| true @shadowFilgamesh - its not an outright ban. It just cant be sold via mainstream lines. The point seems to be to demarcate the lines between hentai and non-hentai; the lines that have been somewhat blurred due to recent spillover of clear hentai elements in mainstream anime. |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| Does anyone have a link to the ACTUAL bill, not just somewhere talking about the bill? i'm starting to question some of what i hear, like that the bill WOULD BAN lolis (well, anyone under 18) in extreem sexual situations even in 18+ section, and i'm not quite sure i believe that yet |
| This is the only source I have. I'm assuming you've already gone through it |
| "...our faces marked by toil, by deceptions, by success, by love; our weary eyes looking still, looking always, looking anxiously for something out of life, that while it is expected is already gone – has passed unseen, in a sigh, in a flash – together with the youth, with the strength, with the romance of illusions.” - Joseph Conrad ('Youth') |
| @koreye found what i was looking for on in a link on the page, thanks it seems that the "ban" on loli's was removed after the first attempt, and the new part simply "gives the government the authority to promote an environment against lolis" <--- paraphrasing by me, not actual quote so i'm still in the clear! |
| looks like they are holding an Dojin event devoted to Ishihara's novels or something. I knew this was going to happen, but this soon?? I can't wait to see how things turn out this is getting exciting well this bill will die quickly well at least lets hope so. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2010-12-16/tokyo-governor-novels-inspire-dojin-protest-event |
"What has two arms, two legs, and is alive? Not your favorite character lol! xD" |
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