Do you have sympathy for RBA? *SPOILER*

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Jul 2013

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I can't hate them and I kinda like them more than the other trainees. Seemed like they had been through a lot before the attack. Too bad they got themselves attached to the other trainees.

Annie had been trained by his dad since she was young to hate all humans and probably prepared for this specific assignment. I guess them warriors are all was taught that insiders (humans within walls) were all bad people and then had a slight change of heart seeing that their insider friends weren't as bad or rotten as they had originally thought.

Where is their 'hometown' anyway??
According to her flashback before getting captured, Annie still had her dad waiting for her.

Sep 16, 2013 5:11 PM

#53

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May 2011

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yuquall said:
I can't hate them and I kinda like them more than the other trainees. Seemed like they had been through a lot before the attack. Too bad they got themselves attached to the other trainees.

Annie had been trained by his dad since she was young to hate all humans and probably prepared for this specific assignment. I guess them warriors are all was taught that insiders (humans within walls) were all bad people and then had a slight change of heart seeing that their insider friends weren't as bad or rotten as they had originally thought.

Where is their 'hometown' anyway??
According to her flashback before getting captured, Annie still had her dad waiting for her.

Did her dad tell her to hate humans? I thought he said to hate him. I'm thinking Annie and her dad might be human b/c of the way she learned to fight in hand to hand combat. Not sure if titans could have developed some kind of martial arts.

Their hometown should be outside the walls.

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Sep 16, 2013 7:45 PM

#54

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Jul 2013

1787

Preciize said:

yuquall said:
I can't hate them and I kinda like them more than the other trainees. Seemed like they had been through a lot before the attack. Too bad they got themselves attached to the other trainees.

Annie had been trained by his dad since she was young to hate all humans and probably prepared for this specific assignment. I guess them warriors are all was taught that insiders (humans within walls) were all bad people and then had a slight change of heart seeing that their insider friends weren't as bad or rotten as they had originally thought.

Where is their 'hometown' anyway??
According to her flashback before getting captured, Annie still had her dad waiting for her.

Did her dad tell her to hate humans? I thought he said to hate him. I'm thinking Annie and her dad might be human b/c of the way she learned to fight in hand to hand combat. Not sure if titans could have developed some kind of martial arts.

Their hometown should be outside the walls.

There's a chance that they developed a martial arts system to astronomically raise their destructive potential. 15 metre tall monstrosities that know Muay Thai? Scary.

Maybe there's conflicts with other titans out there, so unarmed styles become more important than weapons.

Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...

Sep 16, 2013 7:56 PM

#55

deg

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92649

RBA are being manipulated by the Ape Titan there might be some extortion/blackmailing going on

Sep 16, 2013 11:25 PM

#56

LestrangeHakase

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Sep 2013

17

They didn't even know about any kind of Ape-Titan and they do seem to do whatever they are doing of their own free will (even taking pride in it by calling themselves warriors). They could have been manipulated into what they are now by raising and educating them that way for years, but I doubt they've simply been blackmailed.

---

Just now I re-read a few chapters with my theory of BRA always telling the truth in mind and found something weird. Annie is not only drawn to people with strong dedication and willpower (Eren, Armin, that MP guy) but claims to be weak at times. So what if she's not kidding and not the strongest-willed out of the three?

So far I thought of Annie as the "leader" of BRA, but if she envies strongwilled people and is facinated by them, then it's highly likely that she might have a strong body but a weak heart (unlike Armin whose body is weak while his heart is strong).

So then I looked into who else would be the one calling the shots for them. If Annie is weak and more of an opportunist and Reiner is in so much pain he develops a second personality then the "leader" would have to be Berthold.
Funny thing about that is, once you consider him the leader you realize all the other hints towards that:
- When Armin and Eren asked BR about their past it was Berthold that did all the talking
- He is the most professional and keeps his distance to everyone while Reiner actually builds a friendship with some of them and Annie stays pretty close to Mina and bonds with Eren and Armin a little
- Berthold is the one that reminds Reiner of his priorities ("Don't forget you're a warrior.")
- When BR kidnapped Eren he was the one that came up with their escape plan (Eating a soldier early on to take possession of his 3D gear).
- All of their attacks relied on him striking first (It always starts with him destroying the gate.)
- He was the one that watched Ymir closely when she turned into a titan and he used that information to tell Reiner, that her speed would be a threat.
- In their human forms Reiner and Annie are two of the most skilled fighters, while he is the one that handles the talking. So maybe he's the brain and they are the brawn?
- Even among shifters he's visibly different, having an abnormal size. You could say he's a taller titan cause he's taller as a human but then again: Annie and Eren are slightly smaller than Reiner. The 2 of them turn into 14 meter classes and Reiner turns into a 15 meter class. Would Berthold slightly greater height really result in him being the only 60 meter class in the entire manga (even the Ape is smaller)? I'm guessing that there is something entirely different with Bertholds and Ymirs titan form compared to the rest.

I'm not saying he's worse than the other two and I still guess they are all victims that were grown and formed into what they are now, but under his guise of a shy and silent guy he seems to be the one thats under control for the most part and he is most likely the most loyal to their cause.

LestrangeHakaseSep 16, 2013 11:35 PM

Sep 17, 2013 6:01 AM

#57

MikasaxEren

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Aug 2013

583

I thought Eren's titan form was a 15m class? It certainly seems bigger than any normal titan he faces, and the same size (height wise) as Reiners form.
About Berthodlt being the leader, I think Reiner also has a say as well, and the anime seems to hint at this. Annie asks Reiner "should we move now" or something along those lines and he responds "wait until they gather first" which sounds strange if he was talking about the fate of humanity, I think he was waiting for them to gather and then turn into his armoured titan to break the wall, then Eren titan appears and the rest is history.

Sep 17, 2013 6:11 AM

#58

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Jul 2013

291

LestrangeHakase said:
They didn't even know about any kind of Ape-Titan and they do seem to do whatever they are doing of their own free will (even taking pride in it by calling themselves warriors). They could have been manipulated into what they are now by raising and educating them that way for years, but I doubt they've simply been blackmailed.

---

Just now I re-read a few chapters with my theory of BRA always telling the truth in mind and found something weird. Annie is not only drawn to people with strong dedication and willpower (Eren, Armin, that MP guy) but claims to be weak at times. So what if she's not kidding and not the strongest-willed out of the three?

So far I thought of Annie as the "leader" of BRA, but if she envies strongwilled people and is facinated by them, then it's highly likely that she might have a strong body but a weak heart (unlike Armin whose body is weak while his heart is strong).

So then I looked into who else would be the one calling the shots for them. If Annie is weak and more of an opportunist and Reiner is in so much pain he develops a second personality then the "leader" would have to be Berthold.
Funny thing about that is, once you consider him the leader you realize all the other hints towards that:
- When Armin and Eren asked BR about their past it was Berthold that did all the talking
- He is the most professional and keeps his distance to everyone while Reiner actually builds a friendship with some of them and Annie stays pretty close to Mina and bonds with Eren and Armin a little
- Berthold is the one that reminds Reiner of his priorities ("Don't forget you're a warrior.")
- When BR kidnapped Eren he was the one that came up with their escape plan (Eating a soldier early on to take possession of his 3D gear).
- All of their attacks relied on him striking first (It always starts with him destroying the gate.)
- He was the one that watched Ymir closely when she turned into a titan and he used that information to tell Reiner, that her speed would be a threat.
- In their human forms Reiner and Annie are two of the most skilled fighters, while he is the one that handles the talking. So maybe he's the brain and they are the brawn?
- Even among shifters he's visibly different, having an abnormal size. You could say he's a taller titan cause he's taller as a human but then again: Annie and Eren are slightly smaller than Reiner. The 2 of them turn into 14 meter classes and Reiner turns into a 15 meter class. Would Berthold slightly greater height really result in him being the only 60 meter class in the entire manga (even the Ape is smaller)? I'm guessing that there is something entirely different with Bertholds and Ymirs titan form compared to the rest.

I'm not saying he's worse than the other two and I still guess they are all victims that were grown and formed into what they are now, but under his guise of a shy and silent guy he seems to be the one thats under control for the most part and he is most likely the most loyal to their cause.

I actually applauded Berthold when he remained indifferent to Eren's rage bursts.
The forms of Annie, Berthold and Reiner titans are skinless with muscles and joints visible all over the body. But Eren's and Ymir's have perfect skin just like the other titans. They are definitely different from other titans and probably have the whole clan of shape shifters back in their hometown?

Sep 17, 2013 6:20 PM

#59

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May 2011

576

yuquall said:

LestrangeHakase said:
They didn't even know about any kind of Ape-Titan and they do seem to do whatever they are doing of their own free will (even taking pride in it by calling themselves warriors). They could have been manipulated into what they are now by raising and educating them that way for years, but I doubt they've simply been blackmailed.

---

Just now I re-read a few chapters with my theory of BRA always telling the truth in mind and found something weird. Annie is not only drawn to people with strong dedication and willpower (Eren, Armin, that MP guy) but claims to be weak at times. So what if she's not kidding and not the strongest-willed out of the three?

So far I thought of Annie as the "leader" of BRA, but if she envies strongwilled people and is facinated by them, then it's highly likely that she might have a strong body but a weak heart (unlike Armin whose body is weak while his heart is strong).

So then I looked into who else would be the one calling the shots for them. If Annie is weak and more of an opportunist and Reiner is in so much pain he develops a second personality then the "leader" would have to be Berthold.
Funny thing about that is, once you consider him the leader you realize all the other hints towards that:
- When Armin and Eren asked BR about their past it was Berthold that did all the talking
- He is the most professional and keeps his distance to everyone while Reiner actually builds a friendship with some of them and Annie stays pretty close to Mina and bonds with Eren and Armin a little
- Berthold is the one that reminds Reiner of his priorities ("Don't forget you're a warrior.")
- When BR kidnapped Eren he was the one that came up with their escape plan (Eating a soldier early on to take possession of his 3D gear).
- All of their attacks relied on him striking first (It always starts with him destroying the gate.)
- He was the one that watched Ymir closely when she turned into a titan and he used that information to tell Reiner, that her speed would be a threat.
- In their human forms Reiner and Annie are two of the most skilled fighters, while he is the one that handles the talking. So maybe he's the brain and they are the brawn?
- Even among shifters he's visibly different, having an abnormal size. You could say he's a taller titan cause he's taller as a human but then again: Annie and Eren are slightly smaller than Reiner. The 2 of them turn into 14 meter classes and Reiner turns into a 15 meter class. Would Berthold slightly greater height really result in him being the only 60 meter class in the entire manga (even the Ape is smaller)? I'm guessing that there is something entirely different with Bertholds and Ymirs titan form compared to the rest.

I'm not saying he's worse than the other two and I still guess they are all victims that were grown and formed into what they are now, but under his guise of a shy and silent guy he seems to be the one thats under control for the most part and he is most likely the most loyal to their cause.

I actually applauded Berthold when he remained indifferent to Eren's rage bursts.
The forms of Annie, Berthold and Reiner titans are skinless with muscles and joints visible all over the body. But Eren's and Ymir's have perfect skin just like the other titans. They are definitely different from other titans and probably have the whole clan of shape shifters back in their hometown?

I wonder if their whole clan are actually shape shifters. I think if there were they'd send more people to back up Annie, Berthold and Reiner. Like j0x said, I think they're being blackmailed. Maybe someone is threatening to destroy their village?

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Sep 17, 2013 6:26 PM

#60

Prosexema

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Sep 2013

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Torture them until beg me to kill them.

Sep 17, 2013 7:04 PM

#61

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Jul 2013

291

Preciize said:

yuquall said:

The forms of Annie, Berthold and Reiner titans are skinless with muscles and joints visible all over the body. But Eren's and Ymir's have perfect skin just like the other titans. They are definitely different from other titans and probably have the whole clan of shape shifters back in their hometown?

I wonder if their whole clan are actually shape shifters. I think if there were they'd send more people to back up Annie, Berthold and Reiner. Like j0x said, I think they're being blackmailed. Maybe someone is threatening to destroy their village?

True. Or they were all assigned to different missions somewhere else?
It's obvious that they were somehow forced to do whatever they do.
Strange it might be, I do really sympathize with them.

I'm curious with what Berthold said though "Please find us". Now, what did he mean by that?

Sep 17, 2013 7:44 PM

#62

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May 2011

576

yuquall said:

Preciize said:

yuquall said:

The forms of Annie, Berthold and Reiner titans are skinless with muscles and joints visible all over the body. But Eren's and Ymir's have perfect skin just like the other titans. They are definitely different from other titans and probably have the whole clan of shape shifters back in their hometown?

I wonder if their whole clan are actually shape shifters. I think if there were they'd send more people to back up Annie, Berthold and Reiner. Like j0x said, I think they're being blackmailed. Maybe someone is threatening to destroy their village?

True. Or they were all assigned to different missions somewhere else?
It's obvious that they were somehow forced to do whatever they do.
Strange it might be, I do really sympathize with them.

I'm curious with what Berthold said though "Please find us". Now, what did he mean by that?

I feel sympathy for them as well. Not only were they forced to do something, but they also have to carry the blame and hate while whoever is behind all this doesn't.

But anyways, when did Berthold say that? I probably missed it.

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Sep 17, 2013 9:17 PM

#63

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291

Preciize said:

yuquall said:

I'm curious with what Berthold said though "Please find us". Now, what did he mean by that?

I feel sympathy for them as well. Not only were they forced to do something, but they also have to carry the blame and hate while whoever is behind all this doesn't.

But anyways, when did Berthold say that? I probably missed it.

In the last chapter when he pleaded to his former colleages I think just before he was attacked by Erwin, he said that in the end.

Sep 18, 2013 7:36 PM

#64

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May 2011

576

yuquall said:

Preciize said:

yuquall said:

I'm curious with what Berthold said though "Please find us". Now, what did he mean by that?

I feel sympathy for them as well. Not only were they forced to do something, but they also have to carry the blame and hate while whoever is behind all this doesn't.

But anyways, when did Berthold say that? I probably missed it.

In the last chapter when he pleaded to his former colleages I think just before he was attacked by Erwin, he said that in the end.

Oh, maybe he's hoping the people in his village will find him, Reiner, and Annie if they don't return? Or find out what happened to them and assuming they died, to acknowledge their deaths?

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Sep 19, 2013 1:50 AM

#65

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Preciize said:

Oh, maybe he's hoping the people in his village will find him, Reiner, and Annie if they don't return? Or find out what happened to them and assuming they died, to acknowledge their deaths?

Hm.. never thought of that.
But he seemed to say it to the fellow 104th squad.

Oops sorry my mistake. I just checked, it was chapter 48 not the latest one.

Sep 20, 2013 10:56 PM

#66

my_name_is

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Sep 2013

27

I love them because I find them interesting although I think Burthold is by far the most callous/dangerous. Annie and Reiner are conflicted on some level. Annie is questioning whether everyone is really her enemy and Reiner seems to have gone through a complete personality dissociation which is kind of scary. So yes I guess I have sympathy but less for Burthold.

But mostly I just want more of my butthole and weiner :D

Sep 23, 2013 12:42 AM

#67

promptu

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Aug 2013

9

unff love them three, i feel like they're being manipulated/used by someone else to do what they did?? especially seeing them guilt ridden eurgh, and when you remember than when bert and reiner attacked shiganshina they were like ten years old

Sep 23, 2013 12:50 AM

#68

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Jul 2013

1787

promptu said:
unff love them three, i feel like they're being manipulated/used by someone else to do what they did?? especially seeing them guilt ridden eurgh, and when you remember than when bert and reiner attacked shiganshina they were like ten years old

Yes indeed. Y'all gotta keep this in mind. They might have been manipulated into doing this.

Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...

Sep 23, 2013 1:20 AM

#69

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Jul 2013

291

HalfMetalJacket said:

promptu said:
unff love them three, i feel like they're being manipulated/used by someone else to do what they did?? especially seeing them guilt ridden eurgh, and when you remember than when bert and reiner attacked shiganshina they were like ten years old

Yes indeed. Y'all gotta keep this in mind. They might have been manipulated into doing this.

Wow now that you mentioned it, I've completely forgotten about their age. Reiner and Berthold looked old for their age.

During Reiner and Berthold first interaction with Eren and Armin, they had obviously shown some detest toward the other trainees. They thought the others were just some spoiled brats who had been hiding all this time within the walls, never even saw a real Titan and only joined the army to hide themselves further in the inner walls.

But once they learnt Eren had actually saw a Titan and even witnessed her mother being devoured by one, they warmed up to him (partly maybe because they felt responsible for her death). Reiner especially took an immediate liking to Eren and coach him happily. Annie too was impressed by how Eren's determination to fight the titans that she offered to train him herself. While Berthold himself kept aloof.

Sep 23, 2013 2:50 AM

#70

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Jul 2013

1787

yuquall said:

HalfMetalJacket said:

promptu said:
unff love them three, i feel like they're being manipulated/used by someone else to do what they did?? especially seeing them guilt ridden eurgh, and when you remember than when bert and reiner attacked shiganshina they were like ten years old

Yes indeed. Y'all gotta keep this in mind. They might have been manipulated into doing this.

Wow now that you mentioned it, I've completely forgotten about their age. Reiner and Berthold looked old for their age.

During Reiner and Berthold first interaction with Eren and Armin, they had obviously shown some detest toward the other trainees. They thought the others were just some spoiled brats who had been hiding all this time within the walls, never even saw a real Titan and only joined the army to hide themselves further in the inner walls.

But once they learnt Eren had actually saw a Titan and even witnessed her mother being devoured by one, they warmed up to him (partly maybe because they felt responsible for her death). Reiner especially took an immediate liking to Eren and coach him happily. Annie too was impressed by how Eren's determination to fight the titans that she offered to train him herself. While Berthold himself kept aloof.

Bert actually did share his story to Eren. He also gave him some advice for 3DMG, so I wouldn't say he was cold.

Damn, the guys that Eren respected the most turn out to be spies. Gosh the betrayal would have hurt a lot.

Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier
Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.).
Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!)
Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe
Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics.
Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it.

Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something...

Sep 23, 2013 2:57 AM

#71

dankickyou

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4953

Annie is forgiven all her sins cause she is mai waifu!

The Art of Eight

Sep 23, 2013 3:27 AM

#72

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Jul 2013

1554

dankickyou said:
Annie is forgiven all her sins cause she is mai waifu!

Really hope so though, wanting the whole 104th squad to at least fight together in the last battle :c.

BTW... Your sig, speaks the truth.

Sep 23, 2013 3:38 AM

#73

Jotaro_Kujo

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Aug 2013

124

Xinception said:

dankickyou said:
Annie is forgiven all her sins cause she is mai waifu!

Really hope so though, wanting the whole 104th squad to at least fight together in the last battle :c.

BTW... Your sig, speaks the truth.

Seconded. Seriously, I love the titan shifters. I want to see them redeemed somehow, but genocide isn't something you can just toss aside even if you were coerced into doing it from a young age. But since I do have faith in Isayama's storytelling ability, I'm sure he could pull off some sort of redemptive angle without it being mawkish or overly forgiving of their crimes.

Sep 23, 2013 4:40 AM

#74

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Jul 2013

291

HalfMetalJacket said:
Bert actually did share his story to Eren. He also gave him some advice for 3DMG, so I wouldn't say he was cold.

Damn, the guys that Eren respected the most turn out to be spies. Gosh the betrayal would have hurt a lot.

Yeah, I wouldn't say he was cold, but he did keep his distance unlike his other partners. I guess him being the leader most likely is a valid assumption.

Poor Eren. Judging from his character, he would naturally bond easily with those three. They were exactly what he expected for brave and honorable soldiers to be like, especially Reiner. He said it himself, he looked up to and wanted to become like Reiner.

Do you think they had a prior knowledge about the 3DMG or they sneaked into the walls to learn about them too among other things? Since they were especially excelled in using them the first time, mentioned by Eren when he sought their advices on 3DMG.

Sep 23, 2013 1:40 PM

#75

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Jul 2013

1554

yuquall said:

HalfMetalJacket said:
Bert actually did share his story to Eren. He also gave him some advice for 3DMG, so I wouldn't say he was cold.

Damn, the guys that Eren respected the most turn out to be spies. Gosh the betrayal would have hurt a lot.

Yeah, I wouldn't say he was cold, but he did keep his distance unlike his other partners. I guess him being the leader most likely is a valid assumption.

Poor Eren. Judging from his character, he would naturally bond easily with those three. They were exactly what he expected for brave and honorable soldiers to be like, especially Reiner. He said it himself, he looked up to and wanted to become like Reiner.

Do you think they had a prior knowledge about the 3DMG or they sneaked into the walls to learn about them too among other things? Since they were especially excelled in using them the first time, mentioned by Eren when he sought their advices on 3DMG.

Probably briefed by their "superiors".

So that means there must be other spies inside the walls? .....

Sep 23, 2013 1:47 PM

#76

WalkingMisery

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Feb 2013

597

We don't know their reasons yet but I doubt it will ever redeem them in my eyes.

Berth felt pity? Am I the only one that wanted to punch his face off? Eren gets alot of shit for flying off the handle but people he thought were his friends were betraying him. Then Ymir switching sides in a second? I think he has pretty legit reasons.

For now seeing their face just pisses me off. Hope they die.

Sep 23, 2013 2:21 PM

#77

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Jul 2013

1554

WalkingMisery said:
We don't know their reasons yet but I doubt it will ever redeem them in my eyes.

Berth felt pity? Am I the only one that wanted to punch his face off? Eren gets alot of shit for flying off the handle but people he thought were his friends were betraying him. Then Ymir switching sides in a second? I think he has pretty legit reasons.

For now seeing their face just pisses me off. Hope they die.

Why? Can't they be all like

Jotaro_Kujo said:

Xinception said:

dankickyou said:
Annie is forgiven all her sins cause she is mai waifu!

Really hope so though, wanting the whole 104th squad to at least fight together in the last battle :c.

BTW... Your sig, speaks the truth.

Seconded. Seriously, I love the titan shifters. I want to see them redeemed somehow, but genocide isn't something you can just toss aside even if you were coerced into doing it from a young age. But since I do have faith in Isayama's storytelling ability, I'm sure he could pull off some sort of redemptive angle without it being mawkish or overly forgiving of their crimes.

that?

Sep 23, 2013 2:26 PM

#78

WalkingMisery

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Feb 2013

597

Xinception said:

WalkingMisery said:
We don't know their reasons yet but I doubt it will ever redeem them in my eyes.

Berth felt pity? Am I the only one that wanted to punch his face off? Eren gets alot of shit for flying off the handle but people he thought were his friends were betraying him. Then Ymir switching sides in a second? I think he has pretty legit reasons.

For now seeing their face just pisses me off. Hope they die.

Why? Can't they be all like

Jotaro_Kujo said:

Xinception said:

dankickyou said:
Annie is forgiven all her sins cause she is mai waifu!

Really hope so though, wanting the whole 104th squad to at least fight together in the last battle :c.

BTW... Your sig, speaks the truth.

Seconded. Seriously, I love the titan shifters. I want to see them redeemed somehow, but genocide isn't something you can just toss aside even if you were coerced into doing it from a young age. But since I do have faith in Isayama's storytelling ability, I'm sure he could pull off some sort of redemptive angle without it being mawkish or overly forgiving of their crimes.

that?

I'm not very forgiving so it's unlikely. I just think what they did, especially Berth and Reiner, was low. Annie atleast didn't try to make friends just to betray them.

Sep 23, 2013 6:36 PM

#79

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Jul 2013

291

Xinception said:

yuquall said:

HalfMetalJacket said:
Bert actually did share his story to Eren. He also gave him some advice for 3DMG, so I wouldn't say he was cold.

Damn, the guys that Eren respected the most turn out to be spies. Gosh the betrayal would have hurt a lot.

Yeah, I wouldn't say he was cold, but he did keep his distance unlike his other partners. I guess him being the leader most likely is a valid assumption.

Poor Eren. Judging from his character, he would naturally bond easily with those three. They were exactly what he expected for brave and honorable soldiers to be like, especially Reiner. He said it himself, he looked up to and wanted to become like Reiner.

Do you think they had a prior knowledge about the 3DMG or they sneaked into the walls to learn about them too among other things? Since they were especially excelled in using them the first time, mentioned by Eren when he sought their advices on 3DMG.

Probably briefed by their "superiors".

So that means there must be other spies inside the walls? .....

I think so. How could they know where exactly to breach the walls in the first place otherwise? I don't think someone who had never been in the walls couldn't possibly come up with a plan like that. They knew for sure where to hit and where to head.

And there are those smugglers too.

WalkingMisery said:
We don't know their reasons yet but I doubt it will ever redeem them in my eyes.

Berth felt pity? Am I the only one that wanted to punch his face off? Eren gets alot of shit for flying off the handle but people he thought were his friends were betraying him. Then Ymir switching sides in a second? I think he has pretty legit reasons.

For now seeing their face just pisses me off. Hope they die.

At that moment, I just wanted to punch Eren. Anyway, Ymir changed sides because of Eren's attitude.

On a side note, #%"#&!$ you Eren! Ymir would have told us what she knew!!

Sep 24, 2013 2:55 AM

#80

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Jul 2013

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yuquall said:

Xinception said:

yuquall said:

HalfMetalJacket said:
Bert actually did share his story to Eren. He also gave him some advice for 3DMG, so I wouldn't say he was cold.

Damn, the guys that Eren respected the most turn out to be spies. Gosh the betrayal would have hurt a lot.

Yeah, I wouldn't say he was cold, but he did keep his distance unlike his other partners. I guess him being the leader most likely is a valid assumption.

Poor Eren. Judging from his character, he would naturally bond easily with those three. They were exactly what he expected for brave and honorable soldiers to be like, especially Reiner. He said it himself, he looked up to and wanted to become like Reiner.

Do you think they had a prior knowledge about the 3DMG or they sneaked into the walls to learn about them too among other things? Since they were especially excelled in using them the first time, mentioned by Eren when he sought their advices on 3DMG.

Probably briefed by their "superiors".

So that means there must be other spies inside the walls? .....

I think so. How could they know where exactly to breach the walls in the first place otherwise? I don't think someone who had never been in the walls couldn't possibly come up with a plan like that. They knew for sure where to hit and where to head.

And there are those smugglers too.

WalkingMisery said:
We don't know their reasons yet but I doubt it will ever redeem them in my eyes.

Berth felt pity? Am I the only one that wanted to punch his face off? Eren gets alot of shit for flying off the handle but people he thought were his friends were betraying him. Then Ymir switching sides in a second? I think he has pretty legit reasons.

For now seeing their face just pisses me off. Hope they die.

At that moment, I just wanted to punch Eren. Anyway, Ymir changed sides because of Eren's attitude.

On a side note, #%"#&!$ you Eren! Ymir would have told us what she knew!!

Wait... I thought she didn't snitch because Reiner made a deal with her about protecting Historia?

Da faq u n' bout?

Sep 24, 2013 4:36 AM

#81

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Jul 2013

291

Xinception said:

Wait... I thought she didn't snitch because Reiner made a deal with her about protecting Historia?

Da faq u n' bout?

If I didn't misunderstand the conversation, it went kinda like this :

At first, Ymir was on Eren's side. She was about to talk but Eren wouldn't shut up and kept on shouting and rambling about just killing Reiner and Berthold without caring to know who the real enemy was.

Ymir was like 'if that all you can think about, Eren? you are hopeless' kind of losing hope in Eren and changed her mind. That's why she took the deal with Reiner and Berthold, she thought she had a better chance of surviving from the 'real enemy', whoever that is or they are, if she stuck with them (and have Historia with her).

Eren's rage was understandable under the circumstances, but his blind rage costed him Ymir's trust.

Well, that was how I took it. Or maybe I misread or misunderstood some lines. Are all scanlations the same? Perhaps I should find a raw scanalation somewhere.

Sep 24, 2013 6:45 AM

#82

DragonCactus

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Aug 2013

456

yuquall said:

You are both correct from my understanding. Reiner actually interrupted Ymir in order to hurriedly strike a deal about Christa, and slowly Ymir decided to keep quiet.
I'd like to say that Eren might have been able to get it out of her if he had been able to cool it, but Eren never does, and I kinda understand him about it.

"Your argument is like a naked banana--it simply lacks appeal."

Sep 24, 2013 1:55 PM

#83

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Jul 2013

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DragonCactus said:

yuquall said:

You are both correct from my understanding. Reiner actually interrupted Ymir in order to hurriedly strike a deal about Christa, and slowly Ymir decided to keep quiet.
I'd like to say that Eren might have been able to get it out of her if he had been able to cool it, but Eren never does, and I kinda understand him about it.

Well, the dudes who almost directly caused the death of your mommy are there.

Still, Ymir's kinda a pessimist.

Also, Eren's behind on the info, so he couldn't have gotten away winning.

Sep 25, 2013 1:28 AM

#84

HalibelTheEspada

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Jun 2012

1347

I know much of what my input has probably already been said but...

Honestly, it's like any war... it's not really a matter of good or evil. Whether or not they have a "good" reason means nothing. From their own side, sure there could be some great and noble reason for what they've done. And even if I can sympathize with them... I feel like what they've done is completely unforgivable from the humans' standpoint. However, I also feel like whether or not I like it they're going to be forgiven so I'll have to get over it.

Technically Annie is the only one who I think could deserve forgiveness. She didn't really senselessly murder many random people... but merely defended herself. She killed one person that she didn't have to... however it was to further a goal. But while Reiner (that we know of didn't really directly kill anyone) and Bert may have killed a lesser portion of humans... but they did slaughter most of mankind (as we know it). It's like setting a plague on a population. Sure they're probably just pawns in someone else's big scheme... but they're still responsible for their own actions.

The only thing I can see being morally acceptable really, is if they honestly had no idea that their actions would lead to the deaths of so many people. But they certainly don't show any regret. Sure Bert said they don't necessarily want to kill... but for one they're about to be killed so he could just be grovelling, and even if they don't want to they didn't have any problem doing it again. So if it bothered them they really didn't show it. Also, Armin seems to think that Annie guided all the titans into the city... so there's that.

Of course I'm sure at the end of the day, even if what they did is unforgivable. There's a pretty good chance all will end up being bygones and eventually I'll just end up accepting that fact. At least, it feels like the characters in the area right now seem to be willing get past their actions... it'd be pretty hard to convince the rest of humanity. And of course, they can always just keep the fact that they were the cause a secret.

Also, I don't think I can vote because Annie is my 2nd favorite character... and until Reiner revealed to be the enemy I loved him too... Bert's a coward but I don't necessarily hate him either. Like I said they're not evil persay, because there's always two sides in a war, and simply killing your enemy, by itself doesn't make one evil IMO. And like Bert said, they considered them friends after getting to know them... they probably didn't plan to befriend them and then betray them. But even if I like them... at the moment I'm taking humanity's side. Who knows... sooner or later I might be cheering for the titans to destroy the humans.

HalibelTheEspadaSep 25, 2013 1:41 AM

Sep 25, 2013 2:07 AM

#85

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Jul 2013

291

HalibelTheEspada said:
I know much of what my input has probably already been said but...

Honestly, it's like any war... it's not really a matter of good or evil. Whether or not they have a "good" reason means nothing. From their own side, sure there could be some great and noble reason for what they've done. And even if I can sympathize with them... I feel like what they've done is completely unforgivable from the humans' standpoint. However, I also feel like whether or not I like it they're going to be forgiven so I'll have to get over it.

Technically Annie is the only one who I think could deserve forgiveness. She didn't really senselessly murder many random people... but merely defended herself. She killed one person that she didn't have to... however it was to further a goal. But while Reiner (that we know of didn't really directly kill anyone) and Bert may have killed a lesser portion of humans... but they did slaughter most of mankind (as we know it). It's like setting a plague on a population. Sure they're probably just pawns in someone else's big scheme... but they're still responsible for their own actions.

The only thing I can see being morally acceptable really, is if they honestly had no idea that their actions would lead to the deaths of so many people. But they certainly don't show any regret. Sure Bert said they don't necessarily want to... but for one they're about to be killed so he could just be grovelling, and even if they don't want to they didn't have any problem doing it again. So if it bothered them they really didn't show it. Also, Armin seems to think that Annie guided all the titans into the city... so there's that.

Of course I'm sure at the end of the day, even if what they did is unforgivable. There's a pretty good chance all will end up being bygones and eventually I'll just end up accepting that fact. At least, it feels like the characters in the area right now seem to be willing get past their actions... it'd be pretty hard to convince the rest of humanity. And of course, they can always just keep the fact that they were the cause a secret.

As you said it's a war.. people will die.

Whatever they did is unforgivable. Direct nor indirectly they have already caused the death of many people, innocent or not. To be fair, it's the same with what Eren and Mikasa did to the kidnappers is unforgivable. Self-defense or not. You take somebody else's life, you can't get away with that fact.

But Annie, Reiner, and Bertholt are warriors. They were trained to kill and to carry out the missions whatever it takes. They are not supposed to show remorse or regret afterwards. They are not to question the task nor to feel sorry for the 'enemies'.

Annie and Reiner showing signs of remorse just proved to us that they have not completely lost their consciences. Bertholt was swayed but hanging in there. Someone has to be in control or the mission is going to fail.

So yeah I sympathize with them.
They are a whole lot better than the Military Polices.

Sep 25, 2013 2:40 AM

#86

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Jul 2013

1554

yuquall said:

HalibelTheEspada said:
I know much of what my input has probably already been said but...

Honestly, it's like any war... it's not really a matter of good or evil. Whether or not they have a "good" reason means nothing. From their own side, sure there could be some great and noble reason for what they've done. And even if I can sympathize with them... I feel like what they've done is completely unforgivable from the humans' standpoint. However, I also feel like whether or not I like it they're going to be forgiven so I'll have to get over it.

Technically Annie is the only one who I think could deserve forgiveness. She didn't really senselessly murder many random people... but merely defended herself. She killed one person that she didn't have to... however it was to further a goal. But while Reiner (that we know of didn't really directly kill anyone) and Bert may have killed a lesser portion of humans... but they did slaughter most of mankind (as we know it). It's like setting a plague on a population. Sure they're probably just pawns in someone else's big scheme... but they're still responsible for their own actions.

The only thing I can see being morally acceptable really, is if they honestly had no idea that their actions would lead to the deaths of so many people. But they certainly don't show any regret. Sure Bert said they don't necessarily want to... but for one they're about to be killed so he could just be grovelling, and even if they don't want to they didn't have any problem doing it again. So if it bothered them they really didn't show it. Also, Armin seems to think that Annie guided all the titans into the city... so there's that.

Of course I'm sure at the end of the day, even if what they did is unforgivable. There's a pretty good chance all will end up being bygones and eventually I'll just end up accepting that fact. At least, it feels like the characters in the area right now seem to be willing get past their actions... it'd be pretty hard to convince the rest of humanity. And of course, they can always just keep the fact that they were the cause a secret.

As you said it's a war.. people will die.

Whatever they did is unforgivable. Direct nor indirectly they have already caused the death of many people, innocent or not. To be fair, it's the same with what Eren and Mikasa did to the kidnappers is unforgivable. Self-defense or not. You take somebody else's life, you can't get away with that fact.

But Annie, Reiner, and Bertholt are warriors. They were trained to kill and to carry out the missions whatever it takes. They are not supposed to show remorse or regret afterwards. They are not to question the task nor to feel sorry for the 'enemies'.

Annie and Reiner showing signs of remorse just proved to us that they have not completely lost their consciences. Bertholt was swayed but hanging in there. Someone has to be in control or the mission is going to fail.

So yeah I sympathize with them.
They are a whole lot better than the Military Polices.

Well, tbh, it was the rapists who took away Mikasa's parents' life.... so payback?

Sep 25, 2013 3:37 AM

#87

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Jul 2013

291

Xinception said:

Well, tbh, it was the rapists who took away Mikasa's parents' life.... so payback?

Yeah, I know that.

For whatever valid reason, taking a person's life, let it be someone else's or your own is unforgivable. Doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do under certain circumstances, so yeah.. being a hero sucks.

I'm more into punishment when they are still alive rather than a quick death penalty. Torture them, make them feel horrible and horrified for the rest of their lives for what they have done. *evil laugh

I think a torture doesn't always have to be physical. Physical pain is usually caused by an external cause so it is possible to avoid if you can help it, but mental pain is always from within self, almost impossible to escape it.

Sep 25, 2013 1:24 PM

#88

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Jul 2013

1554

yuquall said:

Xinception said:

Well, tbh, it was the rapists who took away Mikasa's parents' life.... so payback?

Yeah, I know that.

For whatever valid reason, taking a person's life, let it be someone else's or your own is unforgivable. Doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do under certain circumstances, so yeah.. being a hero sucks.

I'm more into punishment when they are still alive rather than a quick death penalty. Torture them, make them feel horrible and horrified for the rest of their lives for what they have done. *evil laugh

I think a torture doesn't always have to be physical. Physical pain is usually caused by an external cause so it is possible to avoid if you can help it, but mental pain is always from within self, almost impossible to escape it.

In short, ....

The Joker is the best villain ever? Since he's unstable and all? xD

Sep 25, 2013 5:09 PM

#89

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Jul 2013

291

Xinception said:

In short, ....

The Joker is the best villain ever? Since he's unstable and all? xD

Maybe?

Personally I would say Sepiroth and Wesker are one of the best villains ever.
Super badass villain XD

Sep 25, 2013 5:24 PM

#90

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Jul 2013

1554

yuquall said:

Xinception said:

In short, ....

The Joker is the best villain ever? Since he's unstable and all? xD

Maybe?

Personally I would say Sepiroth and Wesker are one of the best villains ever.
Super badass villain XD[/quote

Sephiroth? Pfft... Let me introduce you to..... Kefka. HA!!!!! F

FF6 > FF7

Sep 25, 2013 9:11 PM

#91

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Jul 2013

291

Xinception said:

Sephiroth? Pfft... Let me introduce you to..... Kefka. HA!!!!! F

FF6 > FF7

Wow really. Well I don't play FF6 nor FF7. I only know Sephiroth from FF7AC.

Anyway,
In SnK the true 'villain' hasn't been revealed yet. Even the Ape titan's role is still unknown.

Sep 26, 2013 2:55 AM

#92

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Jul 2013

1554

yuquall said:

Xinception said:

Sephiroth? Pfft... Let me introduce you to..... Kefka. HA!!!!! F

FF6 > FF7

Wow really. Well I don't play FF6 nor FF7. I only know Sephiroth from FF7AC.

Anyway,
In SnK the true 'villain' hasn't been revealed yet. Even the Ape titan's role is still unknown.

We'll be seeing him in Volume 13 (around chapter 51-55, I estimate) then! Since the news that SnK will end in around 20 volumes is out.

Tbh, when I heard that Reiner commented that The Ape Titan might be a useful ally, I was thinking of him as a GPS for B.R.A to get back to their hometown. :P

Sep 26, 2013 4:32 AM

#93

HalibelTheEspada

Offline

Jun 2012

1347

yuquall said:

Xinception said:

Well, tbh, it was the rapists who took away Mikasa's parents' life.... so payback?

Yeah, I know that.

For whatever valid reason, taking a person's life, let it be someone else's or your own is unforgivable. Doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do under certain circumstances, so yeah.. being a hero sucks.

I'm more into punishment when they are still alive rather than a quick death penalty. Torture them, make them feel horrible and horrified for the rest of their lives for what they have done. *evil laugh

I think a torture doesn't always have to be physical. Physical pain is usually caused by an external cause so it is possible to avoid if you can help it, but mental pain is always from within self, almost impossible to escape it.

I agree with everything you said... but when I was saying it was unforgivable I was just talking about from Eren and co.'s perspectives. For instance... in the case of those rapists (though I think they were slave traders), when that 3rd guy walked in... even though they were all inhuman motherfuckers IMO... to him Eren had to die because it was completely unforgivable that Eren killed his "friends"... even if they did deserve it. Which is how I think Eren does and should view the situation... or at least did before he cooled down.

But like Levi said before (or along these lines)... you can't ever know what the "right" choice is... you just gotta hope that the results are favorable. So whether they decide to get over their killings, I guess that's the choice they'll have to make.

HalibelTheEspadaSep 26, 2013 4:40 AM

Sep 26, 2013 6:18 AM

#94

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Jul 2013

291

HalibelTheEspada said:
I agree with everything you said... but when I was saying it was unforgivable I was just talking about from Eren and co.'s perspectives. For instance... in the case of those rapists (though I think they were slave traders), when that 3rd guy walked in... even though they were all inhuman motherfuckers IMO... to him Eren had to die because it was completely unforgivable that Eren killed his "friends"... even if they did deserve it. Which is how I think Eren does and should view the situation... or at least did before he cooled down.

But like Levi said before (or along these lines)... you can't ever know what the "right" choice is... you just gotta hope that the results are favorable. So whether they decide to get over their killings, I guess that's the choice they'll have to make.

Oh ok that I agree too.
One thing can have different perspectives depends on whose side we're looking at it from. So far we have only been told Eren and co's side of story. I can't wait to know about the outer walls people's story.

Oh.. Levi is my hero T_T

Sep 26, 2013 1:53 PM

#95

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Jul 2013

1554

yuquall said:

HalibelTheEspada said:
I agree with everything you said... but when I was saying it was unforgivable I was just talking about from Eren and co.'s perspectives. For instance... in the case of those rapists (though I think they were slave traders), when that 3rd guy walked in... even though they were all inhuman motherfuckers IMO... to him Eren had to die because it was completely unforgivable that Eren killed his "friends"... even if they did deserve it. Which is how I think Eren does and should view the situation... or at least did before he cooled down.

But like Levi said before (or along these lines)... you can't ever know what the "right" choice is... you just gotta hope that the results are favorable. So whether they decide to get over their killings, I guess that's the choice they'll have to make.

Oh ok that I agree too.
One thing can have different perspectives depends on whose side we're looking at it from. So far we have only been told Eren and co's side of story. I can't wait to know about the outer walls people's story.

Oh.. Levi is my hero T_T

Levi and co.'s side of the story.....

Spin-off after Canon Manga finishes... confirmed.

Sep 26, 2013 4:02 PM

#96

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Jul 2013

291

Xinception said:

yuquall said:

HalibelTheEspada said:
I agree with everything you said... but when I was saying it was unforgivable I was just talking about from Eren and co.'s perspectives. For instance... in the case of those rapists (though I think they were slave traders), when that 3rd guy walked in... even though they were all inhuman motherfuckers IMO... to him Eren had to die because it was completely unforgivable that Eren killed his "friends"... even if they did deserve it. Which is how I think Eren does and should view the situation... or at least did before he cooled down.

But like Levi said before (or along these lines)... you can't ever know what the "right" choice is... you just gotta hope that the results are favorable. So whether they decide to get over their killings, I guess that's the choice they'll have to make.

Oh ok that I agree too.
One thing can have different perspectives depends on whose side we're looking at it from. So far we have only been told Eren and co's side of story. I can't wait to know about the outer walls people's story.

Oh.. Levi is my hero T_T

Levi and co.'s side of the story.....

Spin-off after Canon Manga finishes... confirmed.

And when would that likely be..?

Sep 26, 2013 4:51 PM

#97

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Jul 2013

1554

yuquall said:

Xinception said:

yuquall said:

HalibelTheEspada said:
I agree with everything you said... but when I was saying it was unforgivable I was just talking about from Eren and co.'s perspectives. For instance... in the case of those rapists (though I think they were slave traders), when that 3rd guy walked in... even though they were all inhuman motherfuckers IMO... to him Eren had to die because it was completely unforgivable that Eren killed his "friends"... even if they did deserve it. Which is how I think Eren does and should view the situation... or at least did before he cooled down.

But like Levi said before (or along these lines)... you can't ever know what the "right" choice is... you just gotta hope that the results are favorable. So whether they decide to get over their killings, I guess that's the choice they'll have to make.

Oh ok that I agree too.
One thing can have different perspectives depends on whose side we're looking at it from. So far we have only been told Eren and co's side of story. I can't wait to know about the outer walls people's story.

Oh.. Levi is my hero T_T

Levi and co.'s side of the story.....

Spin-off after Canon Manga finishes... confirmed.

And when would that likely be..?

Either 2 or 3 more years or Isayama supervises another mangaka to make it happen.

Sep 28, 2013 9:49 PM

#98

ibrahim-almulhim

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Nov 2012

29

I voted for 2#

but rather something like this: I like them , but nothing justifies their crimes and they should be punished

Sep 28, 2013 10:10 PM

#99

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Jul 2013

291

ibrahim-almulhim said:
I voted for 2#

but rather something like this: I like them , but nothing justifies their crimes and they should be punished

Depends on which side is going to win too. If their side won the war, they would be considered heroes.

Sep 28, 2013 10:49 PM

#100