| Yes, yes, I realize that one of the biggest selling points of anime is to find escape from the unpleasant truths of the real world. I also feel that every now and then we need an anime that reminds us of the type of dystopian future that we don't want. For sake of clarity, the intended purpose of this thread is not to glorify totalitarianism. Here is my wish list of hypothetical anime adaptations of novels and films of this genre... 1 ) "Nineteen Eighty-Four" ( or simply "1984" ) by George Orwell: the grandest one of them all! The premier title of the entire genre. This one was actually alluded to in the dialogue of the anime "Psycho-Pass". ( The iconic logo of Ingsoc below )  2 ) "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley: the society depicted in this work of fiction is often considered even more horrific than the one in "1984". One of the author's most famous quotes attributed to him describes modernity as being a sort of pampered prison without walls, a concentration camp without tears. It begs the question...are we in fact already living in a brave new world right now without us even realizing it? 3 ) "We" by Yevgeny Zamyatin: this novel is somewhat of a lesser known hidden gem of the genre. 4 ) "The Evil That Men Do": an action film starring Charles Bronson. Although it doesn't make totalitarianism itself the main focus of the plot, it contains powerful dialogue scenes which allow the viewer to see inside the mind of totalitarian statists and how they justify their atrocities. 5 ) "Fahrenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury: I actually found this one to be more on the comical side ( whether intentional or not ). It imagines a dystopian future where the role of the fire department is to confiscate all printed materials and incinerate them. It is quite entertaining if rather cartoonish and over-the-top. The anime "Library War" already comes fairly close to this premise and perhaps it is all that is needed to convey the message that burning books is bad? And now for a little bit of humour... |
| What's the point? Some of these have already movie adaptations and most likely aren't as profitable. Also anime has already plenty of anime with dictatorships. One piece with the world government. Code Geass with the Britannian Empire |
Sciadopitys said: Do you even watch anime?I also feel that every now and then we need an anime that reminds us of the type of dystopian future that we don't want. Just from the top of my head, and avoiding the ones already mentioned: spy family, overlord, nier automata, akudama drive, 86, darling in the franxx, laika nosferatu, heike monogatari, kyoukai senki, kimi to boku no saigo no senjou, even snk itself. This is quite literally one of the most common themes in anime ever. |
| My favorite western books in the genre are Animal Farm and Gathering Blue. I don't believe Gathering Blue has ever been adapted. Battle Royale anime would be nice if done faithfully. I'd like a Phoenix reboot as well. Sun depicts 2 totalitarian societies, but only 1 of them was in the previous adaptation. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Do you want an anime that takes place in Cuba? 🇨🇺 |
Jonas-KJul 26, 2023 9:28 PM
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Whenever I hear of think of the word totalitarianism as explored in anime and just what are thought of popularly as dystopian themes in general, my mind first immediately goes to Ergo Proxy with its domed city-state which serves as a primary setting shielding people from atmospheric poisoning from previous environmental holocaust, 5,000 years in the future where dissidents are executed by drone, new humans can only come from cloning in an artificial womb, people are instructed to mindlessly overconsume on the loudspeaker/jumbotron, it's run by a dictatorship of a city council of highly advanced AI serving as philosopher kings, and people are so programmed/indoctrinated that they can't change their physical routines even with the streets and buildings burning down around them.  |
| More? There are plenty of them, both in older shows and the recent ones. It's a rather popular concept. As for me, I'd rather say: we need more shows with worldbuilding that is not carried by "uh-oh dystopia". I'm not saying the concept itself is bad. It can result in great shows and all, sometimes with ambibitious plots. It's just... it seems to be overused, or rather used as a convenient tool to create a fictional world without putting much effort into it. Even basic dystopian setting is easier to present without risking people calling it as "cheap", after all. Just think about it - two sides of one conflict; one is a totalitarian regime, another one is the resistance; binary morality represented through those two sides (totalitarian regime - bad and oppressive; the resistance - good and caring). Basic writing, as if a middle schooler wanted to try out their writing skills, lol. Sciadopitys said: Bold statement in how incorrect it is. It's not like I specifically dislike Orwell's "1984" (though I kinda do; it's a good book, but overrated), but I wouldn't call it as "the premier title of the entire genre", lol. Dystopian setting in literature is older than it. As for "the grandest of them all", it's up to one's personal opinion. I subjectively think that the idea presented in Aldous Huxley's novels.1 ) "Nineteen Eighty-Four" ( or simply "1984" ) by George Orwell: the grandest one of them all! The premier title of the entire genre. This one was actually alluded to in the dialogue of the anime "Psycho-Pass". |
AdnashJul 27, 2023 12:43 AM
| "We Need More" That's arguable, but lets assume we do: 1. There are plenty of japanese sources to adapt, no need for western classics. For example you just missed the first season of NieR:Automata, which despite looking absurdly sexy and fetishistic, says some interesting things. 2. The problem here is what IPs the producers will choose based on their expectations about what the general public will like. My bet is those will be superficial titles like 86 which compensate their shallowness with over the top melodrama, cheap tearjerker tactics and torture porn. |
There is only one person in the world who ticks all those and my friend, his name is penaldo |
 |
| So basically you want dystopias. That kind of setting usually require proper story writing structure as it heavily relies on showing the initial setting. S,o long prologues showing the current bad situation in the dystopian regime, and the like, before you can really start with the main story. You can't really start the main story narrative and then just go randomly "oh btw it's a dystopian regime here's some info about it". It weight too hevealy on peoples' everyday lives to be ignored for that long. So what's the problem with that? Normally, nothing. But for the anime community? Everything. Most anime viewers will throw a tantrum when the main story hasn't started by the end of the first episode. Pretty much all anime that do not do that fail heavily in the ratings and in sale. So they get no new seasons, and story that are similar do not get adaptation. Instead, you'll get more and more adaptations of stuff that heavily favour short prologue and fast jumping into the main action and main story. Isekai, MMORPGs, travel-like stories, romcoms, school life, harem/ecchi, and in reverse stuff that doesn't really have any form of main story nor are expected to have one, like comedy and SOL. Anticipation/SF often require longer prologues and set up in general to be good, and one with a dystopian setting in particular would be fairly unforgiving on that point ImO. That's one reason it's fairly unpopular in anime and manga medium, who want very short prologue to grab the audience's attention. Another reason being simply that Japanese don't seem as interested in anything SF/anticipation related in general as the western authors/audience does. So we can't have that as anime, because of the anime community. That's what happens when so much of the community will call "trash" and "shitty writing" on anything that does not skip or almost skip prologue |
ZefyrisJul 27, 2023 4:34 AM
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Zefyris said: Toward the Terra and Galaxy Express 999 establish their stories within the 1st episode. Any competent writer can do that.Anticipation/SF often require longer prologues and set up in general to be good, and one with a dystopian setting in particular would be fairly unforgiving on that point ImO. I think the easiest way to hook viewers with a dystopian setting is to have the characters all kill each other as they do in Danganronpa and Battle Royale. Writers begin the story with death and develop the world later on. |
| その目だれの目？ |
Lucifrost said: Zefyris said: Toward the Terra and Galaxy Express 999 establish their stories within the 1st episode. Any competent writer can do that.Anticipation/SF often require longer prologues and set up in general to be good, and one with a dystopian setting in particular would be fairly unforgiving on that point ImO. I think the easiest way to hook viewers with a dystopian setting is to have the characters all kill each other as they do in Danganronpa and Battle Royale. Writers begin the story with death and develop the world later on. Thank you for confirming what I just said "Instead, you'll get more and more adaptations of stuff that heavily favour short prologue and fast jumping into the main action and main story. Isekai, MMORPGs, travel-like stories". Journey stories usually have short prologue for the same reason many isekai do. Because the cast will discover things as they travel, so it's the difference between building a castle and a long road; for the later, you can lay the foundation of the part you'll be working on next as you advance, whereas on the other one, you need to prep that way more as a whole before starting to build the whole stuff above. The main cast wasn't LIVING where the story is going to happen, they'll be moving all the time with the story. As such, the state of the initial place the main cast was is way, way less relevant on the story building and world building than it is for most other stories out there. It's really not hard to figure out either why this works for that type of stories but not for the others. It's not rocket science. It has nothing to do with "writer competency" either. The fact that you do not realize how RESTRICTIVE on the type of story a short prologue is is just you lacking the proper insight, not the authors being bad at it. Most of the very praised classic literature works have long prologues. Are you telling me their authors were bad but One Piece 's author for example is better than all of them because he could do his travel story prologue in one chapter ? That any 3rd rate isekai work is better than those classic works because of the same reason? Please be a bit serious here. old_geezer said: Zefyris said: Nope, A prologue is not necessary, nor does an explanation of the setting need to come first.So basically you want dystopias. That kind of setting usually require proper story writing structure as it heavily relies on showing the initial setting. S,o long prologues showing the current bad situation in the dystopian regime, and the like, before you can really start with the main story. I suppose you know better than all the professional novel writers across the ages then. Even the classic In Media Res story start goes back to a proper prologue after it, but nope,according to our old geezer here, proper story structure is overrated. This is why anime cannot have nice stories. Peoples are asking the story to bend its way in fashions that break it or make it poor on the long run. And then you guys will complain that 1/3rd of the season are " isekai and mmorpg stories". You're literally contributing to it, because novel stories that have proper, classic prologue get shunned by the community for being "boring". And then you cry about the "trash stories" and the stories that started hype but fall short on the long run (well duh...). |
ZefyrisJul 27, 2023 10:21 AM
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Zefyris said: You spoke as if we can't get dystopian stories when we're getting travel stories, which is absurd.Thank you for confirming what I just said "Instead, you'll get more and more adaptations of stuff that heavily favour short prologue and fast jumping into the main action and main story. Isekai, MMORPGs, travel-like stories". I gave other kinds of examples too. Toward the Terra is not about traveling even though it has "toward" in the title. |
| その目だれの目？ |
RentNoGirlfriend said: Totalitarianism is not the same as centralized powerSciadopitys said: Do you even watch anime?I also feel that every now and then we need an anime that reminds us of the type of dystopian future that we don't want. Just from the top of my head, and avoiding the ones already mentioned: spy family, overlord, nier automata, akudama drive, 86, darling in the franxx, laika nosferatu, heike monogatari, kyoukai senki, kimi to boku no saigo no senjou, even snk itself. This is quite literally one of the most common themes in anime ever. And none of these are good except Spy X Family, which again, is not about totalitarianism |
| "Chimp in state of nature never jerks off, but in captivity he does, wat does this mean? In state of nature he’s too busy, to put plainly. He is concerned with mastering space: solving problem of life in and under trees, mastering what tools he can, mastering social relations in the jockeying for power and status. Deprived of this drive to development and self-increase he devolves to pointless masturbation, in captivity, where he senses he is in owned space and therefore the futility of all his efforts and all his actions." |
| There's a good amount of anime that focus on totalitarian and dystopian settings. Even something as rather simple like Gundam explores areas of Fascism, with the Zeon and in its sequel the Titans also have a lot of militaristic and colonialist aspects to there cruelty and barbarism. And that's one of the more lighter series, stuff like Ergo Proxy, Monster, Psycho Pass... all are really well executed series that tackle more complex and serious issues. I would like to see more mature series of course, so I'm all for this. |
Sometimes it takes a real man to be best girl. Gilgamesh is also chad.   |
Rissenicus said: Whether you like them or not and how much they conform to your preferred definition of totalitarianism is absolutely irrelevant.Totalitarianism is not the same as centralized power And none of these are good except Spy X Family, which again, is not about totalitarianism They still have totalitarian/dystopian themes, which was what the OP suggested we needed more of :D |
| I just don't get the purpose of this thread because from my perspective you are acting like anime hasn't hit on these themes in great detail before which they have. Literally two of the most popular action shonen on this site and in general are AOT and FMA which hit on these topics intensely lol. You don't even have to go to nicher stuff like Ergo Proxy or Now and Then, Here and There. Stuff like Code Geass was very mainstream. We literally have gotten recent seasonals like Edgerunnrs and 86. I mean sure it would be interesting to see how Japan would tackle some of those works but at the end of the day I want to see original works from JP creators. I have already read 1984 and Brave New World and while again it would be interested in seeing them adapted I would rather see a new story being put forward. |
Greatly beloved by college students in North America! What does that say about the character of these young 'idealists'? ryo-san There is only one person in the world who ticks all those and my friend, his name is penaldo Are you referring to a soccer player?? |
RentNoGirlfriend said: You are fucking retarded and whether you accept or not is absolutely irrelevantRissenicus said: Whether you like them or not and how much they conform to your preferred definition of totalitarianism is absolutely irrelevant.Totalitarianism is not the same as centralized power And none of these are good except Spy X Family, which again, is not about totalitarianism They still have totalitarian/dystopian themes, which was what the OP suggested we needed more of :D |
| "Chimp in state of nature never jerks off, but in captivity he does, wat does this mean? In state of nature he’s too busy, to put plainly. He is concerned with mastering space: solving problem of life in and under trees, mastering what tools he can, mastering social relations in the jockeying for power and status. Deprived of this drive to development and self-increase he devolves to pointless masturbation, in captivity, where he senses he is in owned space and therefore the futility of all his efforts and all his actions." |
| idk bout him but one of my friends love che guevara |
PeripheralVision said: I agree that 1984 is less convincing. You should read the true masterpiece that is Animal Farm if you haven't yet.Not to be an asshole, but I will, but 1984 was less convincing than Brave New World. Such an overrated work, 1984. |
| その目だれの目？ |
alshu said: is it really good? People been saying it's meh.NieR:Automata, which despite looking absurdly sexy and fetishistic, says some interesting things. |
TRC_Randy said: alshu said: is it really good? People been saying it's meh.NieR:Automata, which despite looking absurdly sexy and fetishistic, says some interesting things. The game is (also it's sexy and trolls you constantly), the anime is sort of an absurdist show..not sure if those who weren't familiar with the game understood what is going on (like you should pay attestation to detail, not to mention you should pause to read some texts screens in the aftercredits scene of the last episode of season one). |
alshuJul 28, 2023 2:21 AM
alshu said: okay weird question; is it better to just WATCH the GAMEPLAY then?TRC_Randy said: is it really good? People been saying it's meh. The game is (also it's sexy and trolls you constantly), the anime is sort of an absurdist show..not sure if those who weren't familiar with the game understood what is going on (like you should pay attestation to detail, not to mention you should pause to read some texts screens in the aftercredits scene of the last episode of season one). |
TRC_Randy said: is it better to just WATCH the GAMEPLAY then? If you like watching gameplay videos and you don't mind the played grinding those same places again and again - yes, it is. It does some tricks like seemingly ending and that giving you the option to replay it with another character...and after finishing it with extra angles to certain scenes and some new ones, you are back to the main character and the story continues further. You should watch all the parts, all the alternative ends, all the alternative boss fights (those give extra fragments of the story) ect. Also the action is fun to watch. It switches between standard third person RPG smashing and arcade like side scrolling. And if you than watch the anime, you will get a nice alternative timeline with even more extra info, eater eggs and weird jokes. But actually if you ask a true fan of the Nier franchise, you should watch all the games, since the anime references the others too. |
TRC_Randy said: I'm waiting for the anime to finish airing before I watch it. But the 1st game has a better story than Automata, so you're better off watching that.alshu said: is it really good? People been saying it's meh.NieR:Automata, which despite looking absurdly sexy and fetishistic, says some interesting things. |
| その目だれの目？ |
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