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Which anime separate Casual fans from Hardcore fans?

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Jan 8, 2023 9:56 PM
Jan 8, 2023 10:04 PM
孔真・コウマコト

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Jun 2017
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I think NHK ni Youkoso! is one that takes a bit of time to find in the first place and it's very easy to be turned off by the main character, so a perfect fit for the title. 
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni


Jan 8, 2023 11:18 PM

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Jan 2010
1395
KaiserWilhelm_II said:
Did it really change? Anime became mainstream in the west, but the most anime watchers don't identify themselves as "otaku" "fanatic" or "fan". Mainstream taste differs from classic western and japanese otaku taste. Wouldn't you agree that there is still a lot of prejudice against classic otaku from "mainstream consumers"?

OK, I think I'm going to need break this down for you, & I'll answer your questions.
Did the definition change?  Yes, because now not only anime is accepted in the west, the action of premium streaming services like Netflix, Crunchyroll, and others have also changed the landscape of how we watched anime.
Is anime mainstream in the west?  It's accepted, but how do you define mainstream?  How do you prove anime is mainstream?  I mean yes, you can say Attack on Titan, Demon Slayers, My Hero Academia are considered mainstream anime in the west.

But for every mainstream shonen, and critically acclaim anime out there that become a mainstream hit in the west, there's a lot of good one that get overlooked, or slip under the radar.  For example, Attack on Titan's creator said Muv-Luv was the biggest inspiration for Attack on Titan, did that lead to Muv-Luv franchise becoming a mainstream hit in the US?  Nope, only those that know about it would watch it.  The mainstream majority of AOT fanbase probably don't bother watching Muv-Luv: Alternative despite Hajime Isayama has confirmed AOT's influence from Muv-Luv.  That's the same problem I have with people who watch Sword Art Online, and Isekai genre anime when they don't watch or give Aura Battler Dunbine, the first & very important foundation of Isekai anime the same love they would give to any recent Isekai anime titles.

I'm happy for anime to be accepted mainstream, but what disappoint me as a fan is that many lesser well-known & underrated anime out there are being ignored by people who casually watch mainstream shonen anime in the US.  The same applied to older & retro anime.  I mean if you're a fan of Cowboy Bebop as a classic, then why not give Dirty Pair, Crusher Joe, and Space Adventure Cobra that same love you give to Bebop.

About mainstream taste compared to Japanese otaku, or someone like me who watched older, retro anime, and lesser well-known but innovative anime titles.  How do you define mainstream? I mean Netflix has a lot of anime on their catalog, but how many of them become mainstream hit?  Only quite a few.  I mean not every people that watch Attack on Titan, Demon Slayers, etc... are going to end up watching a niche or lesser well-known anime titles that doesn't get the same mainstream hype.  Take Spy x Family, it's not on Netflix and the only way to watch it is on Crunchyroll, and yet Spy x Family got a lot of mainstream hype (even my 11 year old niece knows about that anime).

Are there anime that are considered timeless classics?  Yes, of course.  I considered Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Inuyasha, Ranma 1/2, Sailor Moon, Mobile Suit Gundam, Super Dimension Fortress Macross to be classic and very important milestone in anime.

But you know what there are other forgotten or anime titles that are overlooked that I do considered as classics in my eyes because of the pop culture impact it had.  I considered Gatchaman to be important because without Gatchaman, we wouldn't have Super Sentai/Power Ranger franchise.  I considered Fist of the North Star as another important classic for me.

Do I think there's still prejudice against otaku/anime nerds from mainstream consumers?  I don't think so.  Because nerd culture has now been normalized & accepted today thanks to better technologies like smartphone, internet, and streaming.  All of these required some form of nerdism.  I mean if you asked me back in the late 90's, early or late 2000's that question I would've answered yes!!!  But today, that has changed and I say that as a anime fan for 17 years.  I'm not afraid to show off my anime/manga knowledge unlike back in the past.

Am I proud to say I'm a anime fan, yes!!!  But it also disappoint me that even anime watchers that watched mainstream titles aren't branching out to lesser well-known anime titles.  Do I want fans of Attack on Titans to watch other anime like Muv-Luv?  Yes!!!  I don't want a casual anime watcher who watch mainstream titles to limit their anime watching to those titles.  Expand, explore, branch out to other titles, get out of that comfort zone!!!  That's my message to any casual mainstream anime watcher.
mdo7Jan 20, 2023 5:12 PM
Jan 8, 2023 11:43 PM

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@mdo7 It is because most people do not have enough brains or even desire to use them and think.

Without that they cannot possibly understand something like SEL or Blame!
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Or my blog here https://BDSMAnime.blogspot.com/
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Submit to me and become my subject here https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=88107
Jan 9, 2023 12:15 AM

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Jun 2016
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nyugvo6 said:
not sure about anime, but you can tell who's a real fan and who's a wannabe infiltrator simply by their behavior.
if anyone bitches about fanservice, asks for poc main characters or displays similar behavior, they aren't fans just tourists.


I disagree. I think you can still be a fan, even hard-core fan and critique things you dislike, like fanservice, or hope for improvement, like for example more diversity in anime. That's not mutually exclusive.
Jan 9, 2023 2:14 AM

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Oct 2014
2837
lol, this thread turned into a competition between the fans of two terrible mecha series for a bit.
 
Anyway, I don't think you need to watch a specific anime to be considered hardcore, someone who has 100+ days of watch time and 300+ completed is hardcore in my eyes.
Jan 9, 2023 6:17 AM
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Jul 2018
564612
mdo7 said:
KaiserWilhelm_II said:
Did it really change? Anime became mainstream in the west, but the most anime watchers don't identify themselves as "otaku" "fanatic" or "fan". Mainstream taste differs from classic western and japanese otaku taste. Wouldn't you agree that there is still a lot of prejudice against classic otaku from "mainstream consumers"?

OK, I think I'm going to need break this down for you, & I'll answer your questions.
Did the definition change?  Yes, because now not only anime is accepted in the west, the action of premium streaming services like Netflix, Crunchyroll, and others have also changed the landscape of how we watched anime.
Is anime mainstream in the west?  It's accepted, but how do you define mainstream?  How do you prove anime is mainstream?  I mean yes, you can say Attack on Titan, Demon Slayers, My Hero Academia are considered mainstream anime in the west.

But for every mainstream shonen, and critically acclaim anime out there that become a mainstream hit in the west, there's a lot of good one that get overlooked, or slip under the radar.  For example, Attack on Titan's creator said Muv-Luv was the biggest inspiration for Attack on Titan, did that lead to Luv-Muv becoming a mainstream hit in the US?  Nope, only those that know about it would watch it.  The mainstream majority of AOT fanbase probably don't bother watching Muv-Luv: Alternative despite Hajime Isayama has confirmed AOT's influence from Muv-Luv.  That's the same problem I have with people who watch Sword Art Online, and Isekai genre anime when they don't watch or give Aura Battler Dunbine, the first & very important foundation of Isekai anime the same love they would give to any recent Isekai anime titles.

I'm happy for anime to be accepted mainstream, but what disappoint me as a fan is that many lesser well-known & underrated anime out there are being ignored by people who casually watch mainstream shonen anime in the US.  The same applied to older & retro anime.  I mean if you're a fan of Cowboy Bebop as a classic, then why not give Dirty Pair, Crusher Joe, and Space Adventure Cobra that same love you give to Bebop.

About mainstream taste compared to Japanese otaku, or someone like me who watched older, retro anime, and lesser well-known but innovative anime titles.  How do you define mainstream? I mean Netflix has a lot of anime on their catalog, but how many of them become mainstream hit?  Only quite a few.  I mean not every people that watch Attack on Titan, Demon Slayers, etc... are going to end up watching a niche or lesser well-known anime titles that doesn't get the same mainstream hype.  Take Spy x Family, it's not on Netflix and the only way to watch it is on Crunchyroll, and yet Spy x Family got a lot of mainstream hype (even my 11 year old niece knows about that anime).

Are there anime that are considered timeless classics?  Yes, of course.  I considered Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Inuyasha, Ranma 1/2, Sailor Moon, Mobile Suit Gundam, Super Dimension Fortress Macross.

But you know what there are other forgotten or anime titles that are overlooked that I do considered as classics in my eyes because of the pop culture impact it had.  I considered Gatchaman to be important because without Gatchaman, we wouldn't have Super Sentai/Power Ranger franchise.  I considered Fist of the North Star as another important classic for me.

Do I think there's still prejudice against otaku/anime nerds from mainstream consumers?  I don't think so.  Because nerd culture has now been normalized & accepted today thanks to better technologies like smartphone, internet, and streaming.  All of these required some form of nerdism.  I mean if you asked me back in the late 90's, early or late 2000's that question I would've answered yes!!!  But today, that has changed and I say that as a anime fan for 17 years.  I'm not afraid to show off my anime/manga knowledge unlike back in the past.

Am I proud to say I'm a anime fan, yes!!!  But it also disappoint me that even anime watchers that watched mainstream titles aren't branching out to lesser well-known anime titles.  Do I want fans of Attack on Titans to watch other anime like Muv-Luv?  Yes!!!  I don't want a casual anime watcher who watch mainstream titles to limit their anime watching to those titles.  Expand, explore, branch out to other titles, get out of that comfort zone!!!  That's my message to any casual mainstream anime watcher.


I don't think that the definition changed since most don't see identify themselves as being otaku or anime fan. They just See themselves as someone who watches anime just like movies, shows. A majority will still associate the word "weeb" or "Anime Fan" with the same stereotype as 10 or 20 years ago.

People with strong political beliefs on both sides will try to distance themselves, because of different reasons, from "the anime fans". Ironically both sides also accuse the other one of being losers sitting in mothers basement, watching anime. 

It's a lot better than 20 years ago, less meany and people know way more about it, but you still automatically lose a debate with an anime profile picture outside of anime forums.
Loli ultras are an absolute minority in the community and we still see the same "2000 year old dragon"-joke again and again. If a man assures he only reads the most manly, gory, and serious manga he gets a pass. But liking something with a "typical" anime artstyle can lead to judgement. Think about it this way: trying to picture yourself announcing your an anime fan in a family gathering vs announcing your a fan of some sports club. Maybe a bit of banter on both occasions but the second one will be accepted much more.


Regarding the question how we define mainstream, is it really of importance which type of anime is the most popular? Anime is anime.

Besides that I also want to motivate everyone to try digging deeper, but some stuff is simply either so unknown, outdated or old that even more avid anime fans don't watch it. I think it also has to do with the fact that there isn't really any debate for most of these older stuff. A lot of the fun that people have with seasonals is probably discussing it down to the last detail while it airs live. You can see how quickly debates emerge and die nowadays. How does someone feel like title xy is relevant then? Only an extremely small number even cares about historical relevance a title has in japan.

I mentioned Japanese taste being different earlier and you are on point with your examples, there are also popular shows like sazae san and doraemon no one knows about here.
Jan 9, 2023 8:46 AM

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Jan 2010
1395
ThorLL said:
@mdo7 It is because most people do not have enough brains or even desire to use them and think.

Without that they cannot possibly understand something like SEL or Blame!

I would also agree with that, there are stupid, ignorant, and clueless people everywhere that include within anime fandom that probably haven't done any research like on the level I do.  That's the case for Sword Art Online & Isekai genre fans not bothering to give Aura Battler Dunbine the love & recognition it deserved from that fanbase.

Speaking of Sword Art Online, I suddenly recalled the .Hack franchise and although I'm not a fan of that franchise, there are fans of .Hack that are baffle on why Sword Art Online and their fanbase aren't giving .Hack franchise the same appreciation it deserve, I mean .Hack did things better then Sword Art Online that still can hold up in today's anime environment.  Even fans of .Hack franchise were baffled by SAO fanbase calling .Hack a rip-off of SAO despite .Hack franchise pre-dated SAO:

.Hack Reddit: You Know You're Old When SAO Fans Think .Hack is a Rip-Off of SAO

.Hack Reddit: Why do you think Sword Art Online has seen such a rise in popularity while .Hack became more obscure to the point that many will assume it is a SAO ripoff (even though the games predate the LN by 7 years and anime by 10)

See this is why I don't like using the label "casual", or "hardcore" fan because how can people be that stupid and not explore similar franchise that predate SAO.  I assume SAO fanbase don't know how to appreciate good storyline set up by .Hack franchise.

Again, this is the same thing that happened to Tiger & Bunny, which pre-dated My Hero Academia by a few years.  At least MHA fans are willing to watch & give T&B the same appreciation they gave to MHA unlike SAO fans snub .Hack franchise.

KaiserWilhelm_II said:

I don't think that the definition changed since most don't see identify themselves as being otaku or anime fan. They just See themselves as someone who watches anime just like movies, shows. A majority will still associate the word "weeb" or "Anime Fan" with the same stereotype as 10 or 20 years ago.

People with strong political beliefs on both sides will try to distance themselves, because of different reasons, from "the anime fans". Ironically both sides also accuse the other one of being losers sitting in mothers basement, watching anime. 

It's a lot better than 20 years ago, less meany and people know way more about it, but you still automatically lose a debate with an anime profile picture outside of anime forums.
Loli ultras are an absolute minority in the community and we still see the same "2000 year old dragon"-joke again and again. If a man assures he only reads the most manly, gory, and serious manga he gets a pass. But liking something with a "typical" anime artstyle can lead to judgement. Think about it this way: trying to picture yourself announcing your an anime fan in a family gathering vs announcing your a fan of some sports club. Maybe a bit of banter on both occasions but the second one will be accepted much more.


Regarding the question how we define mainstream, is it really of importance which type of anime is the most popular? Anime is anime.

Besides that I also want to motivate everyone to try digging deeper, but some stuff is simply either so unknown, outdated or old that even more avid anime fans don't watch it. I think it also has to do with the fact that there isn't really any debate for most of these older stuff. A lot of the fun that people have with seasonals is probably discussing it down to the last detail while it airs live. You can see how quickly debates emerge and die nowadays. How does someone feel like title xy is relevant then? Only an extremely small number even cares about historical relevance a title has in japan.

I mentioned Japanese taste being different earlier and you are on point with your examples, there are also popular shows like sazae san and doraemon no one knows about here.

To me, the definition has changed because a non-anime fans who watched western adult animation can end up watching a non-mainstream anime based on a recommendation or suggestion.  Again, whatever I wrote in my previous post:

I said:

I mean let me give you couple scenario:

Person A who never watched any anime watched Netflix's Love, Death + Robots ended up watching Robot Carnival because somebody & a article this person read suggested that animated film if he/she liked Love, Death + Robots.

Person B who had no experience with non-mainstream anime but watches Legend of Vox Machina on Prime Video was told about Record of Lodoss War, The Slayers franchise, and Record of Grancrest War and Person B ended up watching those anime titles because of Legend of Vox Machina.

Person C who is a big fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender ended up watching Kaze No Stigma because somebody showed Person C a clip or trailer of Kaze No Stigma and Person C found that show appealing because of the similarities between the 2.

Does that make Person A, B, & C a hardcore anime fans now because they watched a non-mainstream anime based on a western adult animation they've watched and was told about anime similar to those western animation I just mentioned in the scenario above?

This can actually happened in the era of streaming and the acceptance of adult animation in western animation.  You saw that with fans of Steven Universe being credited for keeping Revolutionary Girl Utena fanbase alive.  

Also what happen if I don't know Misty Copeland or Isabella Boylston, both professional ballet dancer came out and praised Dance Dance Danseur and came out as big fan of that series, does that make them hardcore anime fan just because they praise and love that one anime that featured ballet? 

You also said this: "Regarding the question how we define mainstream, is it really of importance which type of anime is the most popular? Anime is anime."

I agree anime is anime, but as I previously written, for a lot of good & mainstream titles, there are bunch of under-rated good anime that is not getting the same hype or love from fans of mainstream titles.  That's what I just mentioned above about Sword Art Online and .Hack franchise fanbase.  .Hack fans not happy that Sword Art Online got all the hype & appreciation that .Hack franchise should've deserved when it came out.  That's why the anime/manga fandom from times to times leave me frustrated.

Anime is Anime you're right, but if one title that is under-rated and has small fanbase but a similar anime with plot, similar tropes get more mainstream hypes and bigger fanbase will leave that fans of under-rated feel like they're being ignored or not taken seriously by that larger mainstream anime community.

This is exactly what happened to .Hack franchise fanbase when they're not happy with all the mainstream hype of Sword Art Online despite .Hack did everything Sword Art Online concept decades earlier.  I can say the same for all Isekai fanbase that don't give Aura Battler Dunbine, the 1st Isekai anime the same love & appreciation it deserve.  Do you understand where I'm coming from on this?

This is why I don't like the label, because of whatever I said.
mdo7Jan 9, 2023 2:05 PM
Jan 9, 2023 11:23 AM

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Apr 2017
67
mdo7 said:
You perfectly answered this (I wish MAL had a thumbs up button so I can give you that) and also described myself although my taste in anime might differ from you.  I don't fit in the label of casual, or hardcore because my taste and preference in anime differ from majority of the fanbase on MAL (although I don't ruled out there maybe anime fans out there that have similar taste and views like me and yours but don't have MAL profile/account to authenticate that).  But yes, that's why I don't like the label casual, and hardcore because you and I don't fit into that categories.  As I said, my taste in anime differ from majority of fans on MAL.
Thank you :)

Besides this topic will only be inviting a gatekeeping discussion which is in turn completely useless other than making people angry. I don't think anybody can fit into THIS label of casual or hardcore like i stated before, it's not possible without an explanation what OP means- and if they mean what they said, the discussion is only to pat themselves or others on the back for having watched an obscure series or something.

Taste difference should not matter with these vague statements like 'casual' or 'hardcore' 

This is a useless tread imo
 L + RATIO + DIDN'T ASK + ELITIST + NOBODY CARES + FOLDED + U FELL OFF + CRY
Jan 9, 2023 11:36 AM

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Apr 2017
67
icefirestone23 said:
A lot of pokemon fans I have seen sounds like they haven't moved on from 1999. They still speak as if pokemon is this juggernaut that is bigger than everything when its viewership is a joke now vs back then. Not to mention the franchise had a huge falling out after Unova similiar to the Yugioh Zexal Crash. There is a reason very few people talk about the Pokemon anime now, and a lot of the talk just revolves around the games (which aren't being particularly well received).

You hopefully understand that you are missing the point of what i was talking about. The person that reacted to what i wrote, and you seem to read too much into my mention of Pokemon.
I don't care if the franchise is bad- i don't care about viewers. That was not the question of this thread and neither was my reaction to it.

This was all about how the question is useless and invites people to spew toxicity on other animes when in reality the question has no collectively agreed upon basis or an argument as to why/how this quote "castle system" works when talking about arbritrary descriptions like "hardcore" or "casual"--

Why are you trying to argue your point when there is no point to argue about?-- Popularity or viewercount on a random anime does not equal a subjective person's label of casual or hardcore, and your paragraph has been wasted on defending nothing. 
 L + RATIO + DIDN'T ASK + ELITIST + NOBODY CARES + FOLDED + U FELL OFF + CRY
Jan 9, 2023 12:19 PM

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Jan 2010
1395
boku_no_pervert said:
Thank you :)

Besides this topic will only be inviting a gatekeeping discussion which is in turn completely useless other than making people angry. I don't think anybody can fit into THIS label of casual or hardcore like i stated before, it's not possible without an explanation what OP means- and if they mean what they said, the discussion is only to pat themselves or others on the back for having watched an obscure series or something.

Taste difference should not matter with these vague statements like 'casual' or 'hardcore' 

This is a useless tread imo

You're welcome!!!  The label is useless for anyone who is a anime fan because any non-fans can randomly stumble upon on a non-mainstream niche anime!!!  That is the case for Steven Universe fans (I assume majority of them have never watched any anime outside of Pokemon, etc....) ending up watching Revolutionary Girl Utena.  So yeah, the label "casual", and "hardcore" doesn't work.  Yep, the thread is useless and people on this thread know you don't have to be a fan to appreciate anime.
Jan 9, 2023 1:05 PM

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Jan 2017
15
I think anyone who can sit through Berserk 2016 is what makes you are hardcore fan.

Vivo in somno. Solitarie putresco in inferis.
Hic dies meus obitus dies, et meus nativus dies. Te obeam.

Mea anima immortalis. Autem mea futura necata sunt.
Manes sum. Animam definire ambiguum est.
Te odi, et te amo. Conveniamus in somnio ipso.

Jan 9, 2023 2:53 PM
Offline
Jul 2018
564612
mdo7 said:
ThorLL said:
@mdo7 It is because most people do not have enough brains or even desire to use them and think.

Without that they cannot possibly understand something like SEL or Blame!

I would also agree with that, there are stupid, ignorant, and clueless people everywhere that include within anime fandom that probably haven't done any research like on the level I do.  That's the case for Sword Art Online & Isekai genre fans not bothering to give Aura Battler Dunbine the love & recognition it deserved from that fanbase.

Speaking of Sword Art Online, I suddenly recalled the .Hack franchise and although I'm not a fan of that franchise, there are fans of .Hack that are baffle on why Sword Art Online and their fanbase aren't giving .Hack franchise the same appreciation it deserve, I mean .Hack did things better then Sword Art Online that still can hold up in today's anime environment.  Even fans of .Hack franchise were baffled by SAO fanbase calling .Hack a rip-off of SAO despite .Hack franchise pre-dated SAO:

.Hack Reddit: You Know You're Old When SAO Fans Think .Hack is a Rip-Off of SAO

.Hack Reddit: Why do you think Sword Art Online has seen such a rise in popularity while .Hack became more obscure to the point that many will assume it is a SAO ripoff (even though the games predate the LN by 7 years and anime by 10)

See this is why I don't like using the label "casual", or "hardcore" fan because how can people be that stupid and not explore similar franchise that predate SAO.  I assume SAO fanbase don't know how to appreciate good storyline set up by .Hack franchise.

Again, this is the same thing that happened to Tiger & Bunny, which pre-dated My Hero Academia by a few years.  At least MHA fans are willing to watch & give T&B the same appreciation they gave to MHA unlike SAO fans snub .Hack franchise.

KaiserWilhelm_II said:

I don't think that the definition changed since most don't see identify themselves as being otaku or anime fan. They just See themselves as someone who watches anime just like movies, shows. A majority will still associate the word "weeb" or "Anime Fan" with the same stereotype as 10 or 20 years ago.

People with strong political beliefs on both sides will try to distance themselves, because of different reasons, from "the anime fans". Ironically both sides also accuse the other one of being losers sitting in mothers basement, watching anime. 

It's a lot better than 20 years ago, less meany and people know way more about it, but you still automatically lose a debate with an anime profile picture outside of anime forums.
Loli ultras are an absolute minority in the community and we still see the same "2000 year old dragon"-joke again and again. If a man assures he only reads the most manly, gory, and serious manga he gets a pass. But liking something with a "typical" anime artstyle can lead to judgement. Think about it this way: trying to picture yourself announcing your an anime fan in a family gathering vs announcing your a fan of some sports club. Maybe a bit of banter on both occasions but the second one will be accepted much more.


Regarding the question how we define mainstream, is it really of importance which type of anime is the most popular? Anime is anime.

Besides that I also want to motivate everyone to try digging deeper, but some stuff is simply either so unknown, outdated or old that even more avid anime fans don't watch it. I think it also has to do with the fact that there isn't really any debate for most of these older stuff. A lot of the fun that people have with seasonals is probably discussing it down to the last detail while it airs live. You can see how quickly debates emerge and die nowadays. How does someone feel like title xy is relevant then? Only an extremely small number even cares about historical relevance a title has in japan.

I mentioned Japanese taste being different earlier and you are on point with your examples, there are also popular shows like sazae san and doraemon no one knows about here.

To me, the definition has changed because a non-anime fans who watched western adult animation can end up watching a non-mainstream anime based on a recommendation or suggestion.  Again, whatever I wrote in my previous post:

I said:

I mean let me give you couple scenario:

Person A who never watched any anime watched Netflix's Love, Death + Robots ended up watching Robot Carnival because somebody & a article this person read suggested that animated film if he/she liked Love, Death + Robots.

Person B who had no experience with non-mainstream anime but watches Legend of Vox Machina on Prime Video was told about Record of Lodoss War, The Slayers franchise, and Record of Grancrest War and Person B ended up watching those anime titles because of Legend of Vox Machina.

Person C who is a big fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender ended up watching Kaze No Stigma because somebody showed Person C a clip or trailer of Kaze No Stigma and Person C found that show appealing because of the similarities between the 2.

Does that make Person A, B, & C a hardcore anime fans now because they watched a non-mainstream anime based on a western adult animation they've watched and was told about anime similar to those western animation I just mentioned in the scenario above?

This can actually happened in the era of streaming and the acceptance of adult animation in western animation.  You saw that with fans of Steven Universe being credited for keeping Revolutionary Girl Utena fanbase alive.  

Also what happen if I don't know Misty Copeland or Isabella Boylston, both professional ballet dancer came out and praised Dance Dance Danseur and came out as big fan of that series, does that make them hardcore anime fan just because they praise and love that one anime that featured ballet? 

You also said this: "Regarding the question how we define mainstream, is it really of importance which type of anime is the most popular? Anime is anime."

I agree anime is anime, but as I previously written, for a lot of good & mainstream titles, there are bunch of under-rated good anime that is not getting the same hype or love from fans of mainstream titles.  That's what I just mentioned above about Sword Art Online and .Hack franchise fanbase.  .Hack fans not happy that Sword Art Online got all the hype & appreciation that .Hack franchise should've deserved when it came out.  That's why the anime/manga fandom from times to times leave me frustrated.

Anime is Anime you're right, but if one title that is under-rated and has small fanbase but a similar anime with plot, similar tropes get more mainstream hypes and bigger fanbase will leave that fans of under-rated feel like they're being ignored or not taken seriously by that larger mainstream anime community.

This is exactly what happened to .Hack franchise fanbase when they're not happy with all the mainstream hype of Sword Art Online despite .Hack did everything Sword Art Online concept decades earlier.  I can say the same for all Isekai fanbase that don't give Aura Battler Dunbine, the 1st Isekai anime the same love & appreciation it deserve.  Do you understand where I'm coming from on this?

This is why I don't like the label, because of whatever I said.


What it all comes down to is that your whole definition relies on watching habit only. I would 100% agree that it's much harder to categorize anyone now based on that. As you said, nowadays everything is much more accessible.

But I thought I made it clear I wouldn't define it by watching habit only, but also what someone identifies as, and real life organizing, and also just what people associate when hearing certain words.
Jan 9, 2023 3:21 PM

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Mar 2021
1414
boku_no_pervert said:
icefirestone23 said:
A lot of pokemon fans I have seen sounds like they haven't moved on from 1999. They still speak as if pokemon is this juggernaut that is bigger than everything when its viewership is a joke now vs back then. Not to mention the franchise had a huge falling out after Unova similiar to the Yugioh Zexal Crash. There is a reason very few people talk about the Pokemon anime now, and a lot of the talk just revolves around the games (which aren't being particularly well received).

You hopefully understand that you are missing the point of what i was talking about. The person that reacted to what i wrote, and you seem to read too much into my mention of Pokemon.
I don't care if the franchise is bad- i don't care about viewers. That was not the question of this thread and neither was my reaction to it.

This was all about how the question is useless and invites people to spew toxicity on other animes when in reality the question has no collectively agreed upon basis or an argument as to why/how this quote "castle system" works when talking about arbritrary descriptions like "hardcore" or "casual"--

Why are you trying to argue your point when there is no point to argue about?-- Popularity or viewercount on a random anime does not equal a subjective person's label of casual or hardcore, and your paragraph has been wasted on defending nothing. 
I assure you even hardcore pokemon buyers like Leonhart are so disconnected with today's anime sphere, a lot of actually speak as if no other anime has aired past 1999. Pokemon fanbase is extremely nostalgia driven, and thus pretty closeminded. Just talk to the hardcore pokemon fans and they will go on a tedtalk how pokemon is the only franchise (maybe yugioh) in the world that matters based on revenue (despite it being eclipsed Winnie the Pooh). This is not an insult, it is actually like this, especially on tcg (including mtg and yugioh) forums where pokemon is relevant. There is a reason why talk on even the recent pokemon animes is neglible now. Pokemon elitists will make AOT elitists look chill

Pokemon video games and TCGs are too widespread and bought, the people buying it are often kids, grandparents, parents. You don't see the same people buying anime blu rays or scaled figures.

While otaku buyers like say Fate or SAO still actually keep up with modern anime since a lot of popular anime got released around then that still runs today like AOT, DAL, even Devil is A Part Timer.
Jan 9, 2023 3:56 PM

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Revolutionary girl utena
Yosuga no sora
Oreimo
Kiss x sis
Gosenzo-sama banbanzai
Vinland saga
[/url]
Jan 10, 2023 2:07 AM

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145
ThorLL said:
@mdo7 It is because most people do not have enough brains or even desire to use them and think.

Without that they cannot possibly understand something like SEL or Blame!

Hey, I'm curious what is SEL, link the sauce please. Never heard of Blame but will bookmark that one for another time.

Thanks
Respectfully ofc

Jan 10, 2023 2:23 AM

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8168
gprime70 said:
ThorLL said:
@mdo7 It is because most people do not have enough brains or even desire to use them and think.

Without that they cannot possibly understand something like SEL or Blame!

Hey, I'm curious what is SEL, link the sauce please. Never heard of Blame but will bookmark that one for another time.

Thanks
Serial Experiments Lain. You've probably heard of it.
Jan 10, 2023 2:38 AM

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epidemia78 said:
gprime70 said:

Hey, I'm curious what is SEL, link the sauce please. Never heard of Blame but will bookmark that one for another time.

Thanks
Serial Experiments Lain. You've probably heard of it.

Ohhh yes definitely, I've have it bookmarked for too long 😅 I was going to watch it after Paranoia Agent but I put that on hold too. 

Appreciate the reply


 
Respectfully ofc

Jan 10, 2023 2:40 AM

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gprime70 said:
ThorLL said:
@mdo7 It is because most people do not have enough brains or even desire to use them and think.

Without that they cannot possibly understand something like SEL or Blame!

Hey, I'm curious what is SEL, link the sauce please. Never heard of Blame but will bookmark that one for another time.

Thanks

Serial Experiments Lain
https://myanimelist.net/anime/339/Serial_Experiments_Lain
Blame
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1055/Blame
https://myanimelist.net/anime/32086/Blame_Movie

May be start with movie Blame or manga
Buy my awesome BDSM male domination book here  https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1174760

Visit my Discord https://discord.com/channels/1047490147794550844/1047490149161898039 I am not there most of the time but you can leave a message.

Or my blog here https://BDSMAnime.blogspot.com/
Or here https://BDSMAnime18.blogspot.com/

Submit to me and become my subject here https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=88107
Jan 10, 2023 2:48 AM

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ThorLL said:
gprime70 said:

Hey, I'm curious what is SEL, link the sauce please. Never heard of Blame but will bookmark that one for another time.

Thanks

Serial Experiments Lain
https://myanimelist.net/anime/339/Serial_Experiments_Lain
Blame
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1055/Blame
https://myanimelist.net/anime/32086/Blame_Movie

May be start with movie Blame or manga

Quick question, does the movie & original both have the same storyline? Just curious. I will most likely stick to the animation as it's been a very very long time since I've picked up manga.
Respectfully ofc

Jan 10, 2023 2:52 AM

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gprime70 said:
ThorLL said:

Serial Experiments Lain
https://myanimelist.net/anime/339/Serial_Experiments_Lain
Blame
https://myanimelist.net/anime/1055/Blame
https://myanimelist.net/anime/32086/Blame_Movie

May be start with movie Blame or manga

Quick question, does the movie & original both have the same storyline? Just curious. I will most likely stick to the animation as it's been a very very long time since I've picked up manga.

Movie is kind of sequel to the original.

Original not as detailed as manga, other people say you can't even understand it without manga, but try it anyway. I you will have any questions refer to manga.

Read synopsis too, it will be your guide.
Buy my awesome BDSM male domination book here  https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1174760

Visit my Discord https://discord.com/channels/1047490147794550844/1047490149161898039 I am not there most of the time but you can leave a message.

Or my blog here https://BDSMAnime.blogspot.com/
Or here https://BDSMAnime18.blogspot.com/

Submit to me and become my subject here https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=88107
Jan 10, 2023 2:56 AM

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ThorLL said:
gprime70 said:

Quick question, does the movie & original both have the same storyline? Just curious. I will most likely stick to the animation as it's been a very very long time since I've picked up manga.

Movie is kind of sequel to the original.

Original not as detailed as manga, other people say you can't even understand it without manga, but try it anyway. I you will have any questions refer to manga.

Read synopsis too, it will be your guide.

Noted, I appreciate the info
Thanks
Respectfully ofc

Jan 10, 2023 2:58 AM

Offline
Nov 2022
2758
gprime70 said:
ThorLL said:

Movie is kind of sequel to the original.

Original not as detailed as manga, other people say you can't even understand it without manga, but try it anyway. I you will have any questions refer to manga.

Read synopsis too, it will be your guide.

Noted, I appreciate the info
Thanks

You are welcome.

the number of characters limit
Buy my awesome BDSM male domination book here  https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1174760

Visit my Discord https://discord.com/channels/1047490147794550844/1047490149161898039 I am not there most of the time but you can leave a message.

Or my blog here https://BDSMAnime.blogspot.com/
Or here https://BDSMAnime18.blogspot.com/

Submit to me and become my subject here https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=88107
Jan 10, 2023 3:09 AM

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There is no such thing. What matters is how passionate you are about the medium. The exact titles you watch and the order you watch them in doesn't matter.
PoitleJan 10, 2023 3:13 AM
I reside wherever the Zettai Ryouiki may lie.
Jan 11, 2023 10:24 AM

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1208
The only answer here is Boku no Pico. 
"Wonder is always difficult until you forgive whoever destroyed your love of surprises"  Edmond Manning

Jan 11, 2023 3:23 PM
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150
Shouldnt your question be something like "How many animes" instead of "Which anime"?
I dont see how watching a single show can make you a hardcore anime fan....
Jan 11, 2023 3:46 PM

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8811
Otaku-kun88 said:
Shouldnt your question be something like "How many animes" instead of "Which anime"?
I dont see how watching a single show can make you a hardcore anime fan....

It's not a single show. The title says "separate." Grammar rules imply that it's multiple anime.

The word anime is singular or plural. If I put "separates" then it would be 1.
Jan 11, 2023 4:05 PM

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276
Cowboy Bebop, Black Lagoon, Ghost in the Shell and Full Metal Alchemist are always brought up as "the best anime" when speaking with the dub watching casuals.  The reason they say this being, they've usually only seen 10 series give or take a few.  Oh, and Elfen Lied, they love that one too.
Jan 11, 2023 4:32 PM
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150
IpreferEcchi said:
Otaku-kun88 said:
Shouldnt your question be something like "How many animes" instead of "Which anime"?
I dont see how watching a single show can make you a hardcore anime fan....

It's not a single show. The title says "separate." Grammar rules imply that it's multiple anime.

The word anime is singular or plural. If I put "separates" then it would be 1.


Youre separating the fans, not the anime. And afaik, anime is singular. Animes is plural.
Jan 11, 2023 4:48 PM

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1612
Otaku-kun88 said:
IpreferEcchi said:

It's not a single show. The title says "separate." Grammar rules imply that it's multiple anime.

The word anime is singular or plural. If I put "separates" then it would be 1.


Youre separating the fans, not the anime. And afaik, anime is singular. Animes is plural.
"I'm watching a Anime"
"I watch a lot of Anime"
"animes" sounds stupid

Jan 15, 2023 7:56 PM

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Apr 2017
67
icefirestone23 said:
boku_no_pervert said:

You hopefully understand that you are missing the point of what i was talking about. The person that reacted to what i wrote, and you seem to read too much into my mention of Pokemon.
I don't care if the franchise is bad- i don't care about viewers. That was not the question of this thread and neither was my reaction to it.

This was all about how the question is useless and invites people to spew toxicity on other animes when in reality the question has no collectively agreed upon basis or an argument as to why/how this quote "castle system" works when talking about arbritrary descriptions like "hardcore" or "casual"--

Why are you trying to argue your point when there is no point to argue about?-- Popularity or viewercount on a random anime does not equal a subjective person's label of casual or hardcore, and your paragraph has been wasted on defending nothing. 
I assure you even hardcore pokemon buyers like Leonhart are so disconnected with today's anime sphere, a lot of actually speak as if no other anime has aired past 1999. Pokemon fanbase is extremely nostalgia driven, and thus pretty closeminded. Just talk to the hardcore pokemon fans and they will go on a tedtalk how pokemon is the only franchise (maybe yugioh) in the world that matters based on revenue (despite it being eclipsed Winnie the Pooh). This is not an insult, it is actually like this, especially on tcg (including mtg and yugioh) forums where pokemon is relevant. There is a reason why talk on even the recent pokemon animes is neglible now. Pokemon elitists will make AOT elitists look chill

Pokemon video games and TCGs are too widespread and bought, the people buying it are often kids, grandparents, parents. You don't see the same people buying anime blu rays or scaled figures.

While otaku buyers like say Fate or SAO still actually keep up with modern anime since a lot of popular anime got released around then that still runs today like AOT, DAL, even Devil is A Part Timer.

Did you just completely ignore what i said
 L + RATIO + DIDN'T ASK + ELITIST + NOBODY CARES + FOLDED + U FELL OFF + CRY
Jan 15, 2023 8:07 PM
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Ones that are not on Netflix, adult swim and Hulu.
Jan 16, 2023 1:18 PM

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213
Gilgamesh: who's side are you on?  For too many reasons for me to list here.  If your a one way street consumer in anything, it will be difficult to adapt and accept anything else.
Jan 16, 2023 5:39 PM

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2758
deadlyspawn said:
Gilgamesh: who's side are you on?  For too many reasons for me to list here.  If your a one way street consumer in anything, it will be difficult to adapt and accept anything else.

Do you ask that of me?

I am the only Gilgamesh here as far as I understand.

Is that about Blame!

There are no sides to chose in core Blame! If system denies you control over itself, then you have to fight it.

Well I would like a utopia where I would be one of people with Net Terminal Genes and will control system like that.
Buy my awesome BDSM male domination book here  https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1174760

Visit my Discord https://discord.com/channels/1047490147794550844/1047490149161898039 I am not there most of the time but you can leave a message.

Or my blog here https://BDSMAnime.blogspot.com/
Or here https://BDSMAnime18.blogspot.com/

Submit to me and become my subject here https://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=88107
Jan 17, 2023 4:26 AM

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213
My apologies ThorLL, my comment was not pointed at any specific person's reply.  It was a direct response for the forum question.  I personally think gilgamesh separates hardcore anime enjoyers from those who just dable in the media.  The last part was describing the difference between people who enjoy a specific type of anime to those who have varied taste(no blaming / no shaming).  I'm not saying one type of viewer is better than the other, just an observation.  :">
deadlyspawnJan 17, 2023 4:31 AM
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