Chisato is a terrible character.

thunderkitten667 said:
This onslaught of hate for Lycoris Recoil makes me laugh. You have a show like Made in Abyss where people somehow applaud Bondrewd who literally tore children apart just so he can use them as his little power cells, or Chainsaw Man everyone says is the best story since sliced bread when Denji the main character is just a 16 year old who’s single motivation in the beginning is booba...but no, Chisato is a terrible character, a character who despite how insufferable it was to watch, stood by her belief of not killing, despite being the BEST killer in Japan period, and has adopted a sense of optimism she places on her own life and towards others as demonstrated when she cared for one of the terrorist’s wounds during the operation with Walnut...I don’t know, her motivations may seem one dimensional but she’s been a fairly solid and consistent character from day one. She never did anything outside of what she spoke or made herself out to be. Her goals and morals are complex, and make for interesting conflict in the world of Lycoris Recoil, which is THE BEST dynamic you can have in any piece of writing, when the character is directly at odds with the environment around them, consatantly leading to interesting exchanges. If this show displayed bad ass waifus killing and chewing bubblegum, then it would just be Black Lagoon, but that show already exists...The story beats may not always be the most interesting, but the fact that Chsiato’s character has always lived but her beliefs and demonstrated it time and time again while also being at odds with even the one she loves the most Takina is good writing. The conflict is always fresh, the fire is always tended to, the audience is always anticipating how it will come to bite Chsiato’s heel later on, you know, like “well if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions”...I mean, you have a movie like Batman V Superman where Batman literally flings thousand pound crates at people’s heads and fires rockets at people despite having a “no kill” policy...but no...Chisato bad...?

Secret333 said:


That's great and all. Can you answer any of my points now?
Also:"The audience is always anticipating how it will come to bite chisato's heel later on" Yeah, I was anticipating that. Unfortunately the anime doesn't seem too concerned with giving Chisato any consequences for her no-kill rule so...

thunderkitten667 said:

If you think she’s had zero consequences, you literally have not been watching this anime lol.

Secret333 said:
I know fully well how many people love this character, so I am fully prepared to qualify that statement.
Full spoilers and a longish read ahead. You can skip to the last paragraph for a tldr.

If we first try to describe Chisato, she's an upbeat lycoris who used to work for the DA, now trying to find the person who gave her a second chance in life by replacing her weak heart with a mechanical one. She's the best lycoris ever, owing to her supernatural ability to dodge bullets that she had from birth, but she never wants to take away people's lives, so she uses non-lethal bullets, and goes out of her way to make sure the people she fights do not die, not even by friendly fire from their comrades.

Ignoring the mechanics of how anything I said above works, here are what I consider to be the moments that weaken or destroy her character:

1. Episode 6 starts with Takina telling Chisato that 4 lycorises lost their lives. Chisato's response to this is very careless, and it's clear she doesn't even give a shit. A moment later she's all smiles because "Takina is gonna live with me, yay!". A normal person would've had a more serious reaction to that, but Chisato should've had an even bigger reaction because of much she values people's lives, and she grew in the same environment that the dead lycorises grew up in. She recieved the same brutal training in her childhood, so the tragedy of their wasted lives should've hit her harder but no, no signs of fucks given here.
2. In episode 8 she talks with the terrorist that killed those 4 lycorises, tried to kill her two episodes ago, and massacred an entire police department who were all innocent people. We know he can't hit her with the gun, he even puts it down. Does she try to stop him? arrest him? anything? nope. he can just go away and enact his plan that leads to even more people dying. Great job Chisato!
3. In episode 9 she just straight up shoots at innocent civilians at a highway, making them lose control of their car. She's just very lucky that that didn't cause an accident that lead to them + anyone else on the road dying. Fucking Mizuki's reaction to this is also of someone who doesn't give a fuck about people's lives. "But she was dealing with a lot and she was sad at that time, that scene is there to show us that she's not herself" is a defense that someone might try. The problem is this betrays her character, her morals, and just normal common sense. I can't believe this needs to be said but you can't just shoot at people just because you're sad. And does she look back at this regretfully? nope. Zero introspection and zero acknowledgement that she endangered innocent lives. This scene reminds me of that deleted scene from Captain Marvel, if anyone knows that one.
4. Again in episode 9, when Kusonoki questions her on letting Majima go, her response is "it's not my job". Forget about what's ethical, forget about what any normal decent human being would've done if they knew someone is a terrorist and they have the ability to stop them. She gives the stupidest excuse I've ever seen and dumbass Kusonoki doesn't say anything to that.
5. In episode 10, when she finds out Mizuki and Kurumi are looking for a way to save her, she decides to close down the cafe because "I can't have you guys wasting time worrying about me". This is just selfishness. It would weigh too much on her conciouseness to have them there trying to help her, so she's just gonna force them to leave their lives in Japan and move countires on her whim. And the two dumbfucks don't even argue back against that. No speech about how much she means to them or any kind of friendship speech that actually would've been appropriate for that moment because those two are nothing but glorified plot devices.
6. This point is less of a character thing, I just wanted to point this out because it's funny. At the end of episode 11, when Majima is shooting at her and Takina, she uses her bullet proof bag to block the bullets. She did that a lot and blocked a lot of bullets, but 1 bullet just knocks the bag out of her hand and so far away it falls down out of reach. The bullet didn't even hit her hand. This is funny because had she not lost that bag there, she could've just blocked Yoshi's bullets in episode 12 when he was shooting Takina, effectively bailing her out of making the choice. I guess the writers realized this and decided that the best solution is: "uuhh she just loosens her grip on the bag and loses it. Genius!". This is just lazy writing at its finest.
7. Chisato let Takina die in episode 12. That's the truth. When that lady who works for Yoshi was charging at Takina to kill her, Chisato didn't try to stop her, which lead to Takina falling off the building. Chisato is just very very lucky Takina fell on a beam and was able to hold on to dear life when the expected scenario would be that she falls to her death.
8. Chisato let's Yoshi go free. He's the guy who funded the terrorists and lead to so many innocents dying, and tried to kill her friend, but no. He gets to go because she can't kill him. So she just can't tie him up with her convenient gun that ties people up? She can't go after him after she calmed Takina down? Nah because we let terrorist funders go free in this show.
9. The choice is bullshit. She fired a real bullet for once. Did she actually have to kill someone? No. We can't let the show be too dark so we're gonna bait the choice while having the show bail her out so now she can't learn or grow or develope in any meaningful way.
10. Majima fucking emptied a mag on her friends when they were standing in the elevator. They could all be dead if it wasn't for Fuki's quick thinking. How does she respond to that happening? She doesn't. She lets it happen and then confronts him with "Yo.". I have to assume this is planned and they're gonna do something together next episode but fucking hell, lucky none of your friends were hurt in this stunt, huh Chisato?

And all of this doesn't include her constantly shifting power levels, the uncharacteristic stupid decisions she makes, how she never wonders if people could've been saved if she killed Majima in the tower incident (The most obvious question she should be asking herself). But this thread is long enough already.

I made this thread because while I always criticized other aspects of the writing, I don't think I went too deep into characters because there was always the chance they'd develope in a good way. I don't see that happening with episode 13 but I would happily eat my words if it proved me wrong. Characters is usually the thing people point to for this show but the characters are as terrible as the rest of the show. This is a 2/10 show on a good day.

If you asked the writers to describe Chisato, I don't think any of the above would come up. It really feels like the writers ignore innocent lives and have no awareness of the implications of the decisions the characters make or do not make. But the unfortunate reality is this:

Tldr; Chisato is an extremely selfish, immoral character that can be as compitent or as incompitent as the writing needs. She doesn't want to kill people with her own hands, but gives no fucks about people dying if she's not holding the gun. She forces others to follow her whims and desires and they rarely question her. She has no compelling developement or struggle. Chisato is not a waifu bait because a jpeg of a random female character would be a better waifu than this horrendous disaster of a character.

StaleNut said:
If you think anyone's reading that, well you might wanna reconsider. This is a MAL forum, people don't care about your opinion, especially when it's so long and convoluted.

certifiedbinger said:
Idiotic take. Try harder.

Piromysl said:


I'm pretty sure I, just like many others correctly analysed what we have seen and it's quite literally in our faces.



Just like you have no reason to believe they were in danger? Something tells me, that authors will agree with me and your reaching is kinda irrelevant, because you just desperately want to see this scene more shit than it actually is. It's brushed aside because there is completely nothing more to it.
And I am emphasizing how they do not deserve sympathy, because they don't deserve sympathy lol. That's why they were portrayed as jackasses. They did not deserved death and they did not died.
You are seriously wondering why people refuse to read this wall of text? I did and lost some braincells in the process.
You just do not pay attention what you are watching, think that character being put in moral dilemma makes them a bad character and somehow reach really far due to your bias. WTF?!

AlexPlayer said:
I agree with everything you said. All in all this was a 6/10 anime at best hard carried by mediocre waifus.
Can't wait for this anime to be completely forgotten in 2 weeks and replaced with another mid waifu show.

thunderkitten667 said:
This onslaught of hate for Lycoris Recoil makes me laugh. You have a show like Made in Abyss where people somehow applaud Bondrewd who literally tore children apart just so he can use them as his little power cells, or Chainsaw Man everyone says is the best story since sliced bread when Denji the main character is just a 16 year old who’s single motivation in the beginning is booba...but no, Chisato is a terrible character, a character who despite how insufferable it was to watch, stood by her belief of not killing, despite being the BEST killer in Japan period, and has adopted a sense of optimism she places on her own life and towards others as demonstrated when she cared for one of the terrorist’s wounds during the operation with Walnut...I don’t know, her motivations may seem one dimensional but she’s been a fairly solid and consistent character from day one. She never did anything outside of what she spoke or made herself out to be. Her goals and morals are complex, and make for interesting conflict in the world of Lycoris Recoil, which is THE BEST dynamic you can have in any piece of writing, when the character is directly at odds with the environment around them, consatantly leading to interesting exchanges. If this show displayed bad ass waifus killing and chewing bubblegum, then it would just be Black Lagoon, but that show already exists...The story beats may not always be the most interesting, but the fact that Chsiato’s character has always lived but her beliefs and demonstrated it time and time again while also being at odds with even the one she loves the most Takina is good writing. The conflict is always fresh, the fire is always tended to, the audience is always anticipating how it will come to bite Chsiato’s heel later on, you know, like “well if it isn’t the consequences of my own actions”...I mean, you have a movie like Batman V Superman where Batman literally flings thousand pound crates at people’s heads and fires rockets at people despite having a “no kill” policy...but no...Chisato bad...?

thunderkitten667 said:

If you think she’s had zero consequences, you literally have not been watching this anime lol.

Kenji_3 said:
not gonna read that bs.

SkyhighCFC said:


You don't get it do you? The OP isn't against putting characters in moral dilemmas or against them having flaws. The problem is the fact that these flaws or dilemmas aren't expanded upon...AT ALL. No introspection, no pondering on what happened before, no regret, NOTHING. It's just presented to us as is and we're supposed to just accept it without these things ever being addressed. It's lazy writing.

SaiyanGod_15 said:
Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :)

Piromysl said:

You have no idea what you are talking about. Like half of those paragraphs are literally "flawed character = bad character" and the rest are complete misrepresentation and desperate nitpicking.
I mean, you could just read "TLDR" part at the bottom, which is quite hyperbolic, but still.

animedude1287 said:
While some of your points are fine, a lot of these feel like nitpicks, or your just looking too deep into specific parts. I'm not going through this whole list, but I'll leave my points and go from there.

1: Why would Chisato even care about the other members? I get what your trying to say, but these girls are in a field of work where they could easily be killed. Chisato doesn't seem to be a person who would worry about those kinds of things.

2: The two are in a deadlock. Majima can't hit Chisato, and Chisato can't fight back without her gun. Yes, Chisato could have tried to take the gun, but she could have easily failed and gotten herself shot.

3: That part was most likely for comedy, as they most likely the guys in the car didn't die. There were no other cars, and even if they crashed, they could have still survived.

5: While you could view that as selfishness, Chisato wants to let her friends enjoy their lives and enjoy it then wasting time trying to find a cure when there might not be one. It's selfishness, but that's what Chisato wants.

7: Wow, I didn't know Takina turned into a zombie at that part. This girl has taken on full-grown men. Pretty sure she could hold her own.

8: You do realize even if Chisato ties him and the other women up, they can still break out of it and escape? The woman had a dozen knives on her, or they could have used the broken glasses or something to break out. Pretty sure they have other problems to deal with, like, you know, stopping a whole city from going crazy and people finding guns and shooting at every school girl in the city.

9: You just want to make sure you have an even 10. You're ignoring the show's whole season if you don't think other dark things have happened.

10: She most likely knew he was there. Still, only the next episode will tell us how things play out.

I could go either way on this character. Yeah, her abilities and persaonliety are a bit odd, but I still like her.

SkyhighCFC said:


Tell me you didn't even read or try to understand the post without telling me you didn't even read or try to understand the post. But it's okay tbf. You can enjoy the lazy writing they give us all you want in all fairness.

SkyhighCFC said:


You pointed out one point from the OP's post and have harped on and on about it without addressing anything else. You're just making general claims in an attempt to defend the character. How do you explain Chisato claiming she cares about human life and preserving them, but having no reaction at all to any of her teammates being killed in brutal ways? Or the fact she's been nonchalant about the whole Majima situation at best. Or how about the fact she doesn't even follow her own advice? She criticized Fuki for getting too close to an opponent and told her it's an easy way for her to be disarmed by her opponent, only for her to do that exact same mistake 2 episodes later.

These are just a FEW examples of the lazy and incompetent writing we've seen throughout this show.

SkyhighCFC said:


What an amazing post. I agree with 95% of what you said here. It's crazy how overrated this show is because people have chosen to ignore the plot armor, plot conveniences and just straight up lack of logic just because they like the personalities of the main characters.

I pointed this out to a friend after the episode... in episode 6 she gets her gun grabbed by Majima and proceeds to get beat up by Majima after he spits blood in her face. Normally, this type of scene I wouldn't care about because it shows that the "villain" doesn't care about fighting clean and shows our main protagonist in a weak and vulnerable state. Here's the issue though. Just TWO episodes before this, she was flaming Fuki for getting too close to her opponent and told her that it would make it easy for the opponent to disarm her. So why the fuck did the writers think it would be wise for her to make that EXACT SAME MISTAKE in an actual serious situation. It made absolutely no sense.

This was the episode that made me really start to realize how bad the writing in this show is.

deg said:
dude is looking for so much realism in this show lol

CickNipolla said:
anyone got a tldr for this yet, even his own tldr is a paragraph

Secret333 said:


Count the number of times I used realism as an argument.

CickNipolla said:
anyone got a tldr for this yet, even his own tldr is a paragraph

Ionliosite2 said:
Don't worry OP, I actually read thought your wall of text.

1- Yeah, if I'm told that 4 people that I don't care anything about and that I also probably don't know died then I might not care as well, call me weird or cold, but it's the truth.
2- I think I no longer remember episode 8.
3- Yes, she killed no one, and no one died, so no betraying of her morals and beliefs.
4- This is just the same as "why does the bad guy sent minions to fight the MC and doesn't he go to kill him before he gets strong?" type of thinking, just convenient writting, so I agree with you that she was weird that scene.
5- Yes, people can be selfish, welcome to reality. She knows that her heart wouldn't have lasted forever either way and it is her desition that she is fine without their help.
7- But Takina isn't dead...
8- Didn't she say that she let Yoshi go because she is grateful to him? And you are also saying your reasoning that she doesn't kill people. As if he could have been tied, probably.
10- How was she supposed to react when he just appeared out of nowhere? At least I don't know if she saw him walking before shooting.


The ones I didn't answer I tink because they were extensions of just the previous one and the 6 you yourself said that it was something you found funny. You can find my reasoning faulty since I already started to forget the small details and just remember the important ones. I don't think she is a terrible character, but also definitely not a great one either.

deg said:


youre basically comparing her actions on how you think real life should be

fiction is exaggeration most of the time so illogical things are allowed

use your suspension of disbelief

Piromysl said:

TLDR is at the bottom.
Basically "flawed character = bad character", which is completely wrong.
Last time I chrcked, Mary Sue characters are scorned.

Piromysl said:

TLDR is at the bottom.
Basically "flawed character = bad character", which is completely wrong.
Last time I chrcked, Mary Sue characters are scorned.

Secret333 said:


1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info?

Secret333 said:


1-If someone told you someone targeted and killed 4 people who are in the same business as you, wear the same uniforms, for the fact that they work in the same field, How would you recive that info? And just hearing that 4 people died should bring some sympathy out of normal people. Not from her I guess. And I gave 2 extra reasons specific to Chisato for why she should care.
2- I wish I could forget episode 8.
3-She betrayed her morals and beliefs the moment she pointed that gun at them and endangered their lives.
4-So Majima is our main character that has to be let go by the villian Chisato in order to become stronger. I can get behind that.
5-I guess I wasn't clear on this point, and that's my bad. Kurumi and Mizuki do not argue against her, which leads to her not developing at all. Instead they're ready to move countries for her, which I find silly.
7-Lucky for Chisato she isn't.
8-Yeah she should've had his terrorism funding on her mind when deciding to let him go free. She apparently didn't.
10-idk. Grab his gun. Shoot him. Anything that would stop him from killing her friends. He keeps shooting long enough for the elevator doors to close so she had time to react. Again, I have to hope this was planned by her. Hopefully episode 13 proves my worst fears wrong.

Piromysl said:


I would take few days off until situation settles down.

Also, Chisato is not really in DA. And does not wear the same uniform.
I think it was quite heavily emphasized.

Secret333 said:


You sound like you'd take that situation seriously. Now tell me if chisato does that.

She's a lycoris like them, the cafe is a subsidiary of the DA and recieves funding from them, and she is wearing the same uniform. Just because the color is different doesn't mean everything else about the design is.

Ionliosite2 said:

1- Again, I might as well not care since I don't know them. But I haven't been in a situation like that, so I can't be 100% of my reaction on something similar.
3- I'm sure her morals are in "no killing" more than "no shooting people".
4- You kinda misunderstood this point, I meant that it was done in a similar stupid way as that works, she let him go for the plot to continue, not because she is a villain. But this is fine too I guess.
5- Well, I don't think it is silly for Kurumi for what she said in that episode that she would be in danger outside of LycoReco. Mizuki I think she said something about a "boyfriend" or some shit, I don't think she has a boyfriend overseas, but she might be desperate enough to go looking for a boyfriend in other country for it. I know not arguing Chisato is probably weird, but they seem to have their reasons to go out of the country outside of just Chisato telling them.
7- Yeah, lucky her.
8- Why would her have his terrorism funds on her mind when she has completely unrelated reasons as to why not do something to him? She's dumb when the thing is about Yoshi.
10- Then maybe we wait and see what will happen in episode 13 to see if it explains more the scene at the end of episode 12.

Piromysl said:

Well, sorry that I just targeted one garbage point out of 10 and focused on it way more then I should, because I did not wanted bothering deconstructing the rest.
I guess authors are very sorry, that highway scene was not handled exactly as you wanted and they definitely should expect that some people would have a wrong impression that someone might die there.

Anyway, you are keep saying that "flawed character = bad character". That is wrong.
Hypocrisy is a flaw.
Chisato is a hypocrite at times, because she is a human. She is not even particularly intelligent.
An I don't know how advising Fuki for coming too close is a bad thing, becsuse that's logical, while Chisato has no problem dodging point blank shots and Fuki can't.

Piromysl said:

Yea, I would totally take situation seriously and NOT do try to avenge strangers, which is not my business.

Chisato's entire character is that she refuses to kill people and you are complaining, that she is not going on a rampage...

SkyhighCFC said:


Lol WHAT? I have never once said in this entire thread that a flawed character is a bad character. In fact most S tier characters have flaws that make them more relatable. The issue with Chisato's flaws are that they're not even really treated as flaws in the first place. And advising Fuki isn't a bad thing. The problem is that she criticized her for making a rookie mistake, yet went on to make that exact rookie mistake despite being the best Lycoris in the country. That goes beyond just not being "smart". Her experience and skill should never have her making that error in the first place.

Ionliosite2 said:


It actually makes sense because she isn't completely free from committing mistakes, just like you could tell your brother to not let the fridge door opened but then in an oversight you could let it open after you warned him some time after. Knowing that you can make a mistake doesn't make you free from making that very same mistake.

Secret333 said:


I kept her no killing rule in mind and I said, multiple times, that she doesn't even try to arrest or apprehend the people responsible for numerous deaths.
I never said she should go on a rampage. I would expect her to be calm, but still show care for the crimes committed. She doesn't.

Piromysl said:

She's not Batman bruh. Get over it.
You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy.
And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy.

Piromysl said:

Then maybe you should reread your post, because you seem to have problem with Chisato being a little bit selfish.
And I'm not sure what are you implying by "treates as flaws", because if it's people not calling her out on it, then... well... XD
The thing is, those flaws make her character not as predictable as Mary Sue characters like Kirito or Tatsuya. That's their entire purpose.
If you really think, that she will be completely different, unrecognizable person by the end, then you are wrong.

And you still don't get it why Cbisato is allowed to get into melle range, but others shouldn't?
It might have something to do with her incredible reflexes or something...

Piromysl said:

She's not Batman bruh. Get over it.
You are keep trying to force your own morals on others, which is kinda iffy.
And she does arrest/restrain hostiles if she can. She literally has a wiregun thingy.

ZXSHAWN01 said:
I’m watching this show mainly for the moments between Chisato & Takina, I like Chisato as a character cuz of the surprisingly genki vibe she gives (damn the voice actress did some superb acting!), but your argument does provide a different perspective though.

Long paragraphs they are indeed, I haven’t read all of them. I’d suggest not to call her a ‘terrible’ character in the title, look how many Chisato fans came in just to say nobody cares about your opinion, but they actually do, that’s why they’re bothered to make a reply.

SaiyanGod_15 said:
Cope & Seethe like the rest of them. I bet half of you didn't even watch it and those that did just don't understand it, The hate is unreal. Just mad the show is more popular than whatever you're watching currently But by all means Say what you will :)