Attack on Titan
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Apr 12, 2021 11:20 AM
#1401
| After a few days and reading the chapter again and what not, I am still disappointed with how things turned out, I especially disliked the last arc. Still with even all of this I do whole heartedly believe AoT is one of the greatest pieces of fiction to come out in the last 20/30 years, I actually would put it at the same level as Evangelion in terms of my personal enjoyment. It will still be a 10/10 for me even with all the faults and what not that the manga sadly suffered in the last arc. I already posted once but wanted to post again simply because there ain't as many works of fiction like AOT around. Even with all the hate and shitstorm it created ( I myself disliked the ending by a long margin). I can't help but still be a big fan of this. Absolutely adored this and I will still hope that it gets the same treatment as Evangelion did with movies and what not, Thank you Hajime Isayama for your hardwork in the last decade + 1 year. |
| “There is something in this world which no one has ever seen. It is soft and sweet. If it is spotted, I'm sure everyone will want to have it, Which is why no one has ever seen it. For this world has hidden it quite well, so that it is difficult to obtain. But, there will come a day when it is discovered by somebody, And only those who should obtain it will be able to find it. That is all.” Yuyuko Takemiya |
Apr 12, 2021 11:26 AM
#1402
| This probably has been answered already. I hope So why couldn't he force his father to kill Reiner while he sleeps and leave injured Berthold for Dina even before the attack? Then force Grisha to allow himself to be eaten, then force Dina to touch him after getting the founding titan? Thus keeping the loophole and his founding powers while also saving much more of his own people even if he had to proceed with his idiotic plan anyway? Wouldnt it be a little bit better at least? Maybe he didnt even have to kill himself after all being literally a god of time and space having infinite time to think about his actions... He was afraid of losing his memory? |
Apr 12, 2021 12:24 PM
#1403
mdaka44 said: This probably has been answered already. I hope So why couldn't he force his father to kill Reiner while he sleeps and leave injured Berthold for Dina even before the attack? Then force Grisha to allow himself to be eaten, then force Dina to touch him after getting the founding titan? Thus keeping the loophole and his founding powers while also saving much more of his own people even if he had to proceed with his idiotic plan anyway? Wouldnt it be a little bit better at least? Maybe he didnt even have to kill himself after all being literally a god of time and space having infinite time to think about his actions... He was afraid of losing his memory? You got a massive Stockholm Ymir in the background to deal with. All these theory of what could and couldn’t be done mostly revolve around Ymir and the curse. But glad we know she’s just a girl in love needed some head chopping to free her from it. |
Apr 12, 2021 12:53 PM
#1404
Lovlis said: iSpade said: Lovlis said: iSpade said: Lovlis said: iSpade said: Lovlis said: iSpade said: Lovlis said: iSpade said: Lovlis said: honestly was pretty fine w/ the ending bcuz it was expected to me, i knew that the story was probably gonna go this route. It did feel rush, and some things were questionable/confusing, and the dialogue was pretty bleh, but perhaps the officials translations will be better. But some of yall are really overreacting lmao. I felt a bit better reading a different TL of it. There is some good with in it, the overall execution of this arc was not great though imo. I expect it will be more enjoyable for everyone once animated, though; I enjoyed S4's Marley arc much more than the manga. There won't be any escaping the plotholes or weird change in Eren though. Hopefully Eren will make more sense retrospectively I agree the ending and final arc was underwhelming and a little contrived esp compared to the rest of the story. It didn't leave with a bang, but i honestly can't rlly imagine one that would. In anime it probably will be much more exciting. But i don't understand why so many think eren's character was ruined? is it bcuz i'm one of the few who didn't see eren as a messiah determined to gain freedom but as an actual human being? Some dialogue was weird, perhaps there were some small contradictions, but other than that idk. The last Eren pov chapter proved he was human. There's a difference between having contradictions in a character- flaws; and basically retconning your character twice in one arc with the path flashbacks. Once is enough, now it feels beyond inconsistent to me. He was in love with Mikasa all along but also demonically obsessed with freedom to the point of fascism all along. If he so in love with her all this time, why didn't he do anything? but we already knew for awhile that mikasa's answer could've changed eren's mind. Eren was never as staunch abt doing the rumbling and achieving whatever "freedom" it could bring as so many seem to believe, because he had hesitated and regretted it several times. I knew he cared abt mikasa and his friends all this time lol, was that supposed to be some plot twist or revelation? I think perhaps in ch 131, kid eren stretching his arms out and saying "freedom" was when eren gave up and the conclusion of his character (that was also like the only/last thing we ever heard from him since ch 139 was mostly flashbacks). Eren had achieved his freedom, and a huge part of his definition of freedom was freeing his friends. He had achieved that and knew things would go his way. Idk that's just what I think I don't think anyone doubted he cared about his friends the whole time. And he was conflicted, they made that very obvious. To me, the inconsistency with his character is the romance. The final chapter made it look like he was in love with her the whole time. If he was always in love with her, he could have easily kissed her when she made an advance on him several times in the series. If he was shy, that would be one thing, but he is super gung ho. He never acted like he was in love with her till rumbling arc, at which point he was withdrawn, and so that one failed confession in the rumbling arc was the deciding factor for the genocide. That's not really even subtle romance, it's essentially nonexistant. If they'd showed him loving her all this time or even hinted at it, the inner conflict he had would make more sense. i thought it was pretty obvious that eren loved mikasa, or at least cared for mikasa the most. Also, i think everyone is misunderstanding the panels when eren confesses. it does not mean that eren did everything for his love for mikasa. "but really it all comes down to the fact that he's always been locked down by fate, As such, he was never able to truly cherish his moments with mikasa." And a main point of armin and eren's discussion was that armin had had enough and wanted eren to really confront his feelings for mikasa. Eren's obviously had to seal his feelings for her and shut her down, ever since s1 bcuz of the burdens he carries. And even if it wasn't hinted, how does that one thing "ruin" eren's character as everyone else says. they showed the alternate reality where confessing = no genocide he was super protective of her and armin both, definitely not especially her. the two protected armin or mikasa protected him more than anything; he didn't really show much sign of preference towards her outside of she is one of two precious childhood friends. anything beyond that is just people wanting to ship characters to fill their fantasies, unless there are actual examples of eren liking mikasa as a member of the opposite sex, subtly or overtly (occuring prior to season 4) also you make it sound like he didn't love her because of a burden. he wasn't burdened by memories until after chapter 90/s3. As I already stated, he could have romanced her at any point before that burden, three whole seasons, and didn't. He was loudmouth and gung ho, if he was in love he would've said soemething. At most, you could bend things so he didn't fall in love until the timeskip, in which case that's still rather poor to only hint at it a development which is the sole factor that is the sole factor in whether or not billions die I answered the rest of this more in depth in another reply in this forum either to you or someone else, I don't have much else to say. didn't i literally just say that "Eren's obviously had to seal his feelings for her and shut her down, ever since s1 bcuz of the burdens he carries." Eren didn't really have time or felt he had the right to confess to Mikasa. They were also like 15 before the timeskip. So not much time to think about romance, but it was pretty obvious that Eren still cared for mikasa. i think the fact that Mikasa's answer could've changed his mind, rather than armin or smth, proved that he really valued mikasa. Perhaps it wasn't as full on romantically charged until know, where we finally get eren's pov and feelings, but it was definitely hinted. And again, how does this ruin his entire character. Can you provide examples of it happening before the timeskip, of Eren showing interest in Mikasa and not the other way around? Your favorite ones out of them, maybe. The scarf thing in chapter 1 is the only one I can recall srry this is super late. Anyways, they were usually too busy trying to survive for us to see a lot of relationship interactions but even still, eren promising to wrap mikasa's scarf around her forever, him defending mikasa at the trial, him opening up to mikasa and admitting that he was weaker than the person he was trying to protect, etc. No worries about the late reply, I'm bad about that too lol. Those examples you gave are nice moments; it's possible to see it a romantic light. Though I personally didn’t really any potention for it as a ship until the timeskip. I’m not expecting Oregairu levels of romantic subtlety from a military action shounen like AoT, but I really feel like it’s just assuming friendship for romantic moments much like the way people irl think I must be dating a person of the opposite gender just because we spend time together. Sometimes, things are confusing enough that the romance being genuine is essentially up to as much interpretation to the fans as whether or not his character was assassinated; and it seems to be the case here given the strongly mixed reactions. We can make the argument that his character is overall consistent and the romance makes sense, etc. Once a romance is formed, any memories of the two interacting can be considered romantic in hindsight. From my perspective, the idea the ship was always there has some merit to it, but the way of conveying it to the audience could have been better executed. The "show not tell" type of storytelling is never easy to pull off, but this was a bit much for me. At any rate, it's obviously preferable to one's enjoyment of AoT for them to be able to interpret everything as consistent, which it may well be, so I am happy for you :) |
iSpadeApr 12, 2021 12:56 PM
Apr 12, 2021 4:06 PM
#1405
| i don't understand the people that are scoring 1, what end do you expect? the story ended as it should Hajime Isayama did an awesome work, a real genius of this generation |
Apr 12, 2021 7:13 PM
#1406
| 5000+ votes for this manga chapter. |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
Apr 12, 2021 7:21 PM
#1407
Peeti said: 5000+ votes for this manga chapter. It's a pretty popular series, and it's a controversial ending too, not too surprised honestly. |
All life is a prelude to death. |
Apr 12, 2021 8:15 PM
#1408
| Re reading chapter, I realized that Eren's plan of letting Armin stops him after eliminating 80% of humanity doesn't make sense. Forget Lelouch and focus on the target of the plan. Why leave 20% of humanity with possibilities of war still happening and make Armin the hero on the hope of him using this to negotiate peace, when you can simply just, you know, eliminate all humanity and leave Eldians alone to rule the world as they want? And then he could let Mikasa kill him to free Ymir or whatever, and the future of Paradis would have been easier and better? This plan doesn't make sense and contradicts all Eren's inner monologs when he kept on saying he would eliminate every single one on Earth. Why target 80% of humanity and leaves the world trying to achieve peace when you can make Eldians the only race available? It would have made sense and went more with his character if he said that Armin prevented him from achieving his target in killing everyone and making Eldians the only race available. Him not being able to provide a good reasoning for doing the rumbling even though he knew Armin would stop him still looks weird for a guy who kept shouting for freedom. He could have just repeated the same freedom speech and it would have made more sense, or that he hoped for a different conclusion than Armin stopping him after 80% were killed, instead of making it looks like he knew Armin would stop him and proceeded with the plan just to make him a hero. I mean I get the idea, he knew what was going to happen before even starting the rumbling but his dialogue could have changed and would have just looked better instead of making it looking like a plan from his perspective. He could have just said that he wanted to kill 100% to achieve the freedom he long desired and free Paradis as well but informed Armin that he knew he's going to prevent him from fulfilling his goal anyway, and that he's unsure what will happen to Paradis after that but he had to do the rumbling because he didn't find a better way to achieve freedom for himself and Paradis. This was his only option to become free and he took the gamble even though he knew Armin would stop. It just makes it look better and more in character than making it look like a masterplan that he wanted to achieve when it was clearly not in the inner monologs he was saying. He should have described leaving a 20% of humanity living as a failure for his plan not for it to be the actual plan. The Ymir's love for the king thing does almost feel like it retcon what Eren told her in chapter 122 or 121 I don't remember, when he told her she's free, not a god or slave but can do what she want, then she cried. This chapter made it feel like she was sad because she has always been a slave who follows order and never once had anyone let her do what she wants or make her free till Eren told her so, so she liked him and went with his plan for the rumbling instead of Zeke who was still ordering her. It fits the freedom theme so nicely, that Eren wanted to free everyone including her, and that's why she agreed on his plan. To retcon it in last chapter and make her a slave because she liked the king and went with Eren to see if Mikasa will kill him or not almost feels like butchering the theme of her character. She went with Eren not because he was finally the first one ever to give her a chance to be free and not following anyone's order but she went with him to let Mikasa kill him to get inspiration to do the same? She's 2000 years old and her only problem was that she couldn't move on from a toxic relationship? Come on. The writing of her character in chapter 121 or 122 was far more promising than this conclusion. Reiner and Annie being peace ambassadors? Thinking about it again it doesn't make sense. Even they themselves realized it doesn't make sense lol. Annie killed half the scouts back when she was a spy and Reiner broke the walls leading to ton of deaths for civilians but they put them peace ambassadors towards Paradis? Are they expecting the public to open their arms and hearts for them? I get why make Armin a peace ambassador even though he's a traitor but he's an experienced talker and his speeches kinda always work but Annie and Reiner? Really? This almost feels like giving Noble prize in Peace for a war criminal. Re reading the chapter doesn't solve its problems. It actually increases them. |
Apr 12, 2021 9:44 PM
#1409
el3mel said: Re reading chapter, I realized that Eren's plan of letting Armin stops him after eliminating 80% of humanity doesn't make sense. Forget Lelouch and focus on the target of the plan. Why leave 20% of humanity with possibilities of war still happening and make Armin the hero on the hope of him using this to negotiate peace, when you can simply just, you know, eliminate all humanity and leave Eldians alone to rule the world as they want? And then he could let Mikasa kill him to free Ymir or whatever, and the future of Paradis would have been easier and better? This plan doesn't make sense and contradicts all Eren's inner monologs when he kept on saying he would eliminate every single one on Earth. Why target 80% of humanity and leaves the world trying to achieve peace when you can make Eldians the only race available? It would have made sense and went more with his character if he said that Armin prevented him from achieving his target in killing everyone and making Eldians the only race available. Him not being able to provide a good reasoning for doing the rumbling even though he knew Armin would stop him still looks weird for a guy who kept shouting for freedom. He could have just repeated the same freedom speech and it would have made more sense, or that he hoped for a different conclusion than Armin stopping him after 80% were killed, instead of making it looks like he knew Armin would stop him and proceeded with the plan just to make him a hero. I mean I get the idea, he knew what was going to happen before even starting the rumbling but his dialogue could have changed and would have just looked better instead of making it looking like a plan from his perspective. He could have just said that he wanted to kill 100% to achieve the freedom he long desired and free Paradis as well but informed Armin that he knew he's going to prevent him from fulfilling his goal anyway, and that he's unsure what will happen to Paradis after that but he had to do the rumbling because he didn't find a better way to achieve freedom for himself and Paradis. This was his only option to become free and he took the gamble even though he knew Armin would stop. It just makes it look better and more in character than making it look like a masterplan that he wanted to achieve when it was clearly not in the inner monologs he was saying. He should have described leaving a 20% of humanity living as a failure for his plan not for it to be the actual plan. The Ymir's love for the king thing does almost feel like it retcon what Eren told her in chapter 122 or 121 I don't remember, when he told her she's free, not a god or slave but can do what she want, then she cried. This chapter made it feel like she was sad because she has always been a slave who follows order and never once had anyone let her do what she wants or make her free till Eren told her so, so she liked him and went with his plan for the rumbling instead of Zeke who was still ordering her. It fits the freedom theme so nicely, that Eren wanted to free everyone including her, and that's why she agreed on his plan. To retcon it in last chapter and make her a slave because she liked the king and went with Eren to see if Mikasa will kill him or not almost feels like butchering the theme of her character. She went with Eren not because he was finally the first one ever to give her a chance to be free and not following anyone's order but she went with him to let Mikasa kill him to get inspiration to do the same? She's 2000 years old and her only problem was that she couldn't move on from a toxic relationship? Come on. The writing of her character in chapter 121 or 122 was far more promising than this conclusion. Reiner and Annie being peace ambassadors? Thinking about it again it doesn't make sense. Even they themselves realized it doesn't make sense lol. Annie killed half the scouts back when she was a spy and Reiner broke the walls leading to ton of deaths for civilians but they put them peace ambassadors towards Paradis? Are they expecting the public to open their arms and hearts for them? I get why make Armin a peace ambassador even though he's a traitor but he's an experienced talker and his speeches kinda always work but Annie and Reiner? Really? This almost feels like giving Noble prize in Peace for a war criminal. Re reading the chapter doesn't solve its problems. It actually increases them. The more I think about each and every panel,the shittier the chapter becomes for me. Because 1) Ymir/Mikasa parallel sucked. Mikasa wasn't a slave to eren. She loved him. This 'getting rid of Someone who treated you like shit' thing about ymir made no sense. Eren has never wanted to hurt Mikasa. Even the I hate you think was a fake. Ymir was just a bitch who fell in love with her abuser I mean? What even? |
Apr 12, 2021 9:56 PM
#1410
revapathak said: el3mel said: Re reading chapter, I realized that Eren's plan of letting Armin stops him after eliminating 80% of humanity doesn't make sense. Forget Lelouch and focus on the target of the plan. Why leave 20% of humanity with possibilities of war still happening and make Armin the hero on the hope of him using this to negotiate peace, when you can simply just, you know, eliminate all humanity and leave Eldians alone to rule the world as they want? And then he could let Mikasa kill him to free Ymir or whatever, and the future of Paradis would have been easier and better? This plan doesn't make sense and contradicts all Eren's inner monologs when he kept on saying he would eliminate every single one on Earth. Why target 80% of humanity and leaves the world trying to achieve peace when you can make Eldians the only race available? It would have made sense and went more with his character if he said that Armin prevented him from achieving his target in killing everyone and making Eldians the only race available. Him not being able to provide a good reasoning for doing the rumbling even though he knew Armin would stop him still looks weird for a guy who kept shouting for freedom. He could have just repeated the same freedom speech and it would have made more sense, or that he hoped for a different conclusion than Armin stopping him after 80% were killed, instead of making it looks like he knew Armin would stop him and proceeded with the plan just to make him a hero. I mean I get the idea, he knew what was going to happen before even starting the rumbling but his dialogue could have changed and would have just looked better instead of making it looking like a plan from his perspective. He could have just said that he wanted to kill 100% to achieve the freedom he long desired and free Paradis as well but informed Armin that he knew he's going to prevent him from fulfilling his goal anyway, and that he's unsure what will happen to Paradis after that but he had to do the rumbling because he didn't find a better way to achieve freedom for himself and Paradis. This was his only option to become free and he took the gamble even though he knew Armin would stop. It just makes it look better and more in character than making it look like a masterplan that he wanted to achieve when it was clearly not in the inner monologs he was saying. He should have described leaving a 20% of humanity living as a failure for his plan not for it to be the actual plan. The Ymir's love for the king thing does almost feel like it retcon what Eren told her in chapter 122 or 121 I don't remember, when he told her she's free, not a god or slave but can do what she want, then she cried. This chapter made it feel like she was sad because she has always been a slave who follows order and never once had anyone let her do what she wants or make her free till Eren told her so, so she liked him and went with his plan for the rumbling instead of Zeke who was still ordering her. It fits the freedom theme so nicely, that Eren wanted to free everyone including her, and that's why she agreed on his plan. To retcon it in last chapter and make her a slave because she liked the king and went with Eren to see if Mikasa will kill him or not almost feels like butchering the theme of her character. She went with Eren not because he was finally the first one ever to give her a chance to be free and not following anyone's order but she went with him to let Mikasa kill him to get inspiration to do the same? She's 2000 years old and her only problem was that she couldn't move on from a toxic relationship? Come on. The writing of her character in chapter 121 or 122 was far more promising than this conclusion. Reiner and Annie being peace ambassadors? Thinking about it again it doesn't make sense. Even they themselves realized it doesn't make sense lol. Annie killed half the scouts back when she was a spy and Reiner broke the walls leading to ton of deaths for civilians but they put them peace ambassadors towards Paradis? Are they expecting the public to open their arms and hearts for them? I get why make Armin a peace ambassador even though he's a traitor but he's an experienced talker and his speeches kinda always work but Annie and Reiner? Really? This almost feels like giving Noble prize in Peace for a war criminal. Re reading the chapter doesn't solve its problems. It actually increases them. The more I think about each and every panel,the shittier the chapter becomes for me. Because 1) Ymir/Mikasa parallel sucked. Mikasa wasn't a slave to eren. She loved him. This 'getting rid of Someone who treated you like shit' thing about ymir made no sense. Eren has never wanted to hurt Mikasa. Even the I hate you think was a fake. Ymir was just a bitch who fell in love with her abuser I mean? What even? I just remembered something else. In chapter 122 Ymir was willing to obey Zeke's order and remove the reproduction ability from Eldians. She only stopped when Eren talked to her. How? This doesn't make sense if she was planning all along for Mikasa to be put in a situation to kill Eren or not. She literally decided to ignore Zeke's order because Eren told her she's free and not God or slave so she can do what she wants. What, did the entire Mikasa killing Eren plan just jumped into her head later? But in last chapter she tried hard for the timeline to stay the same by ensuring the Dina eats Eren's mother and ignores Bert every time. What was the meaning of her willingly following Zeke's order just to stop when Eren gives her freedom of choice? As I said it just made sense back then she grew a liking for Eren becsuse while Zeke was still giving him orders, Eren told her to be free and do what she wants so she ultimately decided to go with him. How did this turn exactly into a 2000 years old struggling to get past a toxic relationship so planned for Mikasa to kill Eren? This chapter almost erases chapter 122 from existence it's ridiculous. It's also somehow erases chapter 131 in which Eren was talking to himself about killing everyone outside Paradis to become free and ensure Paradis' future, just to discover in last chapter he proceeded with the rumbling because he knew Armin would stop him and become a hero with only 20% still alive so the world will take time till they can fight back, and that even if Armin wouldn't have stopped him he still would have done it but he doesn't know why. Is he dumb? He did say in chapter 131 why he wanted to do the rumbling :freedom and Paradis' future. Chapter 139 makes it as if chapter 122 and 131 just didn't happen. |
Apr 12, 2021 10:04 PM
#1411
el3mel said: revapathak said: el3mel said: Re reading chapter, I realized that Eren's plan of letting Armin stops him after eliminating 80% of humanity doesn't make sense. Forget Lelouch and focus on the target of the plan. Why leave 20% of humanity with possibilities of war still happening and make Armin the hero on the hope of him using this to negotiate peace, when you can simply just, you know, eliminate all humanity and leave Eldians alone to rule the world as they want? And then he could let Mikasa kill him to free Ymir or whatever, and the future of Paradis would have been easier and better? This plan doesn't make sense and contradicts all Eren's inner monologs when he kept on saying he would eliminate every single one on Earth. Why target 80% of humanity and leaves the world trying to achieve peace when you can make Eldians the only race available? It would have made sense and went more with his character if he said that Armin prevented him from achieving his target in killing everyone and making Eldians the only race available. Him not being able to provide a good reasoning for doing the rumbling even though he knew Armin would stop him still looks weird for a guy who kept shouting for freedom. He could have just repeated the same freedom speech and it would have made more sense, or that he hoped for a different conclusion than Armin stopping him after 80% were killed, instead of making it looks like he knew Armin would stop him and proceeded with the plan just to make him a hero. I mean I get the idea, he knew what was going to happen before even starting the rumbling but his dialogue could have changed and would have just looked better instead of making it looking like a plan from his perspective. He could have just said that he wanted to kill 100% to achieve the freedom he long desired and free Paradis as well but informed Armin that he knew he's going to prevent him from fulfilling his goal anyway, and that he's unsure what will happen to Paradis after that but he had to do the rumbling because he didn't find a better way to achieve freedom for himself and Paradis. This was his only option to become free and he took the gamble even though he knew Armin would stop. It just makes it look better and more in character than making it look like a masterplan that he wanted to achieve when it was clearly not in the inner monologs he was saying. He should have described leaving a 20% of humanity living as a failure for his plan not for it to be the actual plan. The Ymir's love for the king thing does almost feel like it retcon what Eren told her in chapter 122 or 121 I don't remember, when he told her she's free, not a god or slave but can do what she want, then she cried. This chapter made it feel like she was sad because she has always been a slave who follows order and never once had anyone let her do what she wants or make her free till Eren told her so, so she liked him and went with his plan for the rumbling instead of Zeke who was still ordering her. It fits the freedom theme so nicely, that Eren wanted to free everyone including her, and that's why she agreed on his plan. To retcon it in last chapter and make her a slave because she liked the king and went with Eren to see if Mikasa will kill him or not almost feels like butchering the theme of her character. She went with Eren not because he was finally the first one ever to give her a chance to be free and not following anyone's order but she went with him to let Mikasa kill him to get inspiration to do the same? She's 2000 years old and her only problem was that she couldn't move on from a toxic relationship? Come on. The writing of her character in chapter 121 or 122 was far more promising than this conclusion. Reiner and Annie being peace ambassadors? Thinking about it again it doesn't make sense. Even they themselves realized it doesn't make sense lol. Annie killed half the scouts back when she was a spy and Reiner broke the walls leading to ton of deaths for civilians but they put them peace ambassadors towards Paradis? Are they expecting the public to open their arms and hearts for them? I get why make Armin a peace ambassador even though he's a traitor but he's an experienced talker and his speeches kinda always work but Annie and Reiner? Really? This almost feels like giving Noble prize in Peace for a war criminal. Re reading the chapter doesn't solve its problems. It actually increases them. The more I think about each and every panel,the shittier the chapter becomes for me. Because 1) Ymir/Mikasa parallel sucked. Mikasa wasn't a slave to eren. She loved him. This 'getting rid of Someone who treated you like shit' thing about ymir made no sense. Eren has never wanted to hurt Mikasa. Even the I hate you think was a fake. Ymir was just a bitch who fell in love with her abuser I mean? What even? I just remembered something else. In chapter 122 Ymir was willing to obey Zeke's order and remove the reproduction ability from Eldians. She only stopped when Eren talked to her. How? This doesn't make sense if she was planning all along for Mikasa to be put in a situation to kill Eren or not. She literally decided to ignore Zeke's order because Eren told her she's free and not God or slave so she can do what she wants. What, did the entire Mikasa killing Eren plan just jumped into her head later? But in last chapter she tried hard for the timeline to stay the same by ensuring the Dina eats Eren's mother and ignores Bert every time. What was the meaning of her willingly following Zeke's order just to stop when Eren gives her freedom of choice? As I said it just made sense back then she grew a liking for Eren becsuse while Zeke was still giving him orders, Eren told her to be free and do what she wants so she ultimately decided to go with him. How did this turn exactly into a 2000 years old struggling to get past a toxic relationship so planned for Mikasa to kill Eren? This chapter almost erases chapter 122 from existence it's ridiculous. It's also somehow erases chapter 131 in which Eren was talking to himself about killing everyone outside Paradis to become free and ensure Paradis' future, just to discover in last chapter he proceeded with the rumbling because he knew Armin would stop him and become a hero with only 20% still alive so the world will take time till they can fight back, and that even if Armin wouldn't have stopped him he still would have done it but he doesn't know why. Is he dumb? He did say in chapter 131 why he wanted to do the rumbling :freedom and Paradis' future. Chapter 139 makes it as if chapter 122 and 131 just didn't happen. Wow shit I just realised this too. Like this whole Mikasa/ymir slave thing is actually just rushed and isayama was not planning it or probably he was drunk when he wrote chapter 122 and 131 |
Apr 12, 2021 10:20 PM
#1412
revapathak said: el3mel said: revapathak said: el3mel said: Re reading chapter, I realized that Eren's plan of letting Armin stops him after eliminating 80% of humanity doesn't make sense. Forget Lelouch and focus on the target of the plan. Why leave 20% of humanity with possibilities of war still happening and make Armin the hero on the hope of him using this to negotiate peace, when you can simply just, you know, eliminate all humanity and leave Eldians alone to rule the world as they want? And then he could let Mikasa kill him to free Ymir or whatever, and the future of Paradis would have been easier and better? This plan doesn't make sense and contradicts all Eren's inner monologs when he kept on saying he would eliminate every single one on Earth. Why target 80% of humanity and leaves the world trying to achieve peace when you can make Eldians the only race available? It would have made sense and went more with his character if he said that Armin prevented him from achieving his target in killing everyone and making Eldians the only race available. Him not being able to provide a good reasoning for doing the rumbling even though he knew Armin would stop him still looks weird for a guy who kept shouting for freedom. He could have just repeated the same freedom speech and it would have made more sense, or that he hoped for a different conclusion than Armin stopping him after 80% were killed, instead of making it looks like he knew Armin would stop him and proceeded with the plan just to make him a hero. I mean I get the idea, he knew what was going to happen before even starting the rumbling but his dialogue could have changed and would have just looked better instead of making it looking like a plan from his perspective. He could have just said that he wanted to kill 100% to achieve the freedom he long desired and free Paradis as well but informed Armin that he knew he's going to prevent him from fulfilling his goal anyway, and that he's unsure what will happen to Paradis after that but he had to do the rumbling because he didn't find a better way to achieve freedom for himself and Paradis. This was his only option to become free and he took the gamble even though he knew Armin would stop. It just makes it look better and more in character than making it look like a masterplan that he wanted to achieve when it was clearly not in the inner monologs he was saying. He should have described leaving a 20% of humanity living as a failure for his plan not for it to be the actual plan. The Ymir's love for the king thing does almost feel like it retcon what Eren told her in chapter 122 or 121 I don't remember, when he told her she's free, not a god or slave but can do what she want, then she cried. This chapter made it feel like she was sad because she has always been a slave who follows order and never once had anyone let her do what she wants or make her free till Eren told her so, so she liked him and went with his plan for the rumbling instead of Zeke who was still ordering her. It fits the freedom theme so nicely, that Eren wanted to free everyone including her, and that's why she agreed on his plan. To retcon it in last chapter and make her a slave because she liked the king and went with Eren to see if Mikasa will kill him or not almost feels like butchering the theme of her character. She went with Eren not because he was finally the first one ever to give her a chance to be free and not following anyone's order but she went with him to let Mikasa kill him to get inspiration to do the same? She's 2000 years old and her only problem was that she couldn't move on from a toxic relationship? Come on. The writing of her character in chapter 121 or 122 was far more promising than this conclusion. Reiner and Annie being peace ambassadors? Thinking about it again it doesn't make sense. Even they themselves realized it doesn't make sense lol. Annie killed half the scouts back when she was a spy and Reiner broke the walls leading to ton of deaths for civilians but they put them peace ambassadors towards Paradis? Are they expecting the public to open their arms and hearts for them? I get why make Armin a peace ambassador even though he's a traitor but he's an experienced talker and his speeches kinda always work but Annie and Reiner? Really? This almost feels like giving Noble prize in Peace for a war criminal. Re reading the chapter doesn't solve its problems. It actually increases them. The more I think about each and every panel,the shittier the chapter becomes for me. Because 1) Ymir/Mikasa parallel sucked. Mikasa wasn't a slave to eren. She loved him. This 'getting rid of Someone who treated you like shit' thing about ymir made no sense. Eren has never wanted to hurt Mikasa. Even the I hate you think was a fake. Ymir was just a bitch who fell in love with her abuser I mean? What even? I just remembered something else. In chapter 122 Ymir was willing to obey Zeke's order and remove the reproduction ability from Eldians. She only stopped when Eren talked to her. How? This doesn't make sense if she was planning all along for Mikasa to be put in a situation to kill Eren or not. She literally decided to ignore Zeke's order because Eren told her she's free and not God or slave so she can do what she wants. What, did the entire Mikasa killing Eren plan just jumped into her head later? But in last chapter she tried hard for the timeline to stay the same by ensuring the Dina eats Eren's mother and ignores Bert every time. What was the meaning of her willingly following Zeke's order just to stop when Eren gives her freedom of choice? As I said it just made sense back then she grew a liking for Eren becsuse while Zeke was still giving him orders, Eren told her to be free and do what she wants so she ultimately decided to go with him. How did this turn exactly into a 2000 years old struggling to get past a toxic relationship so planned for Mikasa to kill Eren? This chapter almost erases chapter 122 from existence it's ridiculous. It's also somehow erases chapter 131 in which Eren was talking to himself about killing everyone outside Paradis to become free and ensure Paradis' future, just to discover in last chapter he proceeded with the rumbling because he knew Armin would stop him and become a hero with only 20% still alive so the world will take time till they can fight back, and that even if Armin wouldn't have stopped him he still would have done it but he doesn't know why. Is he dumb? He did say in chapter 131 why he wanted to do the rumbling :freedom and Paradis' future. Chapter 139 makes it as if chapter 122 and 131 just didn't happen. Wow shit I just realised this too. Like this whole Mikasa/ymir slave thing is actually just rushed and isayama was not planning it or probably he was drunk when he wrote chapter 122 and 131 Its not rushed, its a retcon, both in ymir and historia, and with eren yeager. Ch 139 version its not even consistent with the dude that killed 2 grown men to defend a girls freedom and would have killed more to defend his, let alone with chad eren version. He never had romantic feelings for mikasa, never made those clear and thought in historia instead. |
Apr 12, 2021 10:47 PM
#1413
Vinicius234 said: revapathak said: el3mel said: revapathak said: el3mel said: Re reading chapter, I realized that Eren's plan of letting Armin stops him after eliminating 80% of humanity doesn't make sense. Forget Lelouch and focus on the target of the plan. Why leave 20% of humanity with possibilities of war still happening and make Armin the hero on the hope of him using this to negotiate peace, when you can simply just, you know, eliminate all humanity and leave Eldians alone to rule the world as they want? And then he could let Mikasa kill him to free Ymir or whatever, and the future of Paradis would have been easier and better? This plan doesn't make sense and contradicts all Eren's inner monologs when he kept on saying he would eliminate every single one on Earth. Why target 80% of humanity and leaves the world trying to achieve peace when you can make Eldians the only race available? It would have made sense and went more with his character if he said that Armin prevented him from achieving his target in killing everyone and making Eldians the only race available. Him not being able to provide a good reasoning for doing the rumbling even though he knew Armin would stop him still looks weird for a guy who kept shouting for freedom. He could have just repeated the same freedom speech and it would have made more sense, or that he hoped for a different conclusion than Armin stopping him after 80% were killed, instead of making it looks like he knew Armin would stop him and proceeded with the plan just to make him a hero. I mean I get the idea, he knew what was going to happen before even starting the rumbling but his dialogue could have changed and would have just looked better instead of making it looking like a plan from his perspective. He could have just said that he wanted to kill 100% to achieve the freedom he long desired and free Paradis as well but informed Armin that he knew he's going to prevent him from fulfilling his goal anyway, and that he's unsure what will happen to Paradis after that but he had to do the rumbling because he didn't find a better way to achieve freedom for himself and Paradis. This was his only option to become free and he took the gamble even though he knew Armin would stop. It just makes it look better and more in character than making it look like a masterplan that he wanted to achieve when it was clearly not in the inner monologs he was saying. He should have described leaving a 20% of humanity living as a failure for his plan not for it to be the actual plan. The Ymir's love for the king thing does almost feel like it retcon what Eren told her in chapter 122 or 121 I don't remember, when he told her she's free, not a god or slave but can do what she want, then she cried. This chapter made it feel like she was sad because she has always been a slave who follows order and never once had anyone let her do what she wants or make her free till Eren told her so, so she liked him and went with his plan for the rumbling instead of Zeke who was still ordering her. It fits the freedom theme so nicely, that Eren wanted to free everyone including her, and that's why she agreed on his plan. To retcon it in last chapter and make her a slave because she liked the king and went with Eren to see if Mikasa will kill him or not almost feels like butchering the theme of her character. She went with Eren not because he was finally the first one ever to give her a chance to be free and not following anyone's order but she went with him to let Mikasa kill him to get inspiration to do the same? She's 2000 years old and her only problem was that she couldn't move on from a toxic relationship? Come on. The writing of her character in chapter 121 or 122 was far more promising than this conclusion. Reiner and Annie being peace ambassadors? Thinking about it again it doesn't make sense. Even they themselves realized it doesn't make sense lol. Annie killed half the scouts back when she was a spy and Reiner broke the walls leading to ton of deaths for civilians but they put them peace ambassadors towards Paradis? Are they expecting the public to open their arms and hearts for them? I get why make Armin a peace ambassador even though he's a traitor but he's an experienced talker and his speeches kinda always work but Annie and Reiner? Really? This almost feels like giving Noble prize in Peace for a war criminal. Re reading the chapter doesn't solve its problems. It actually increases them. The more I think about each and every panel,the shittier the chapter becomes for me. Because 1) Ymir/Mikasa parallel sucked. Mikasa wasn't a slave to eren. She loved him. This 'getting rid of Someone who treated you like shit' thing about ymir made no sense. Eren has never wanted to hurt Mikasa. Even the I hate you think was a fake. Ymir was just a bitch who fell in love with her abuser I mean? What even? I just remembered something else. In chapter 122 Ymir was willing to obey Zeke's order and remove the reproduction ability from Eldians. She only stopped when Eren talked to her. How? This doesn't make sense if she was planning all along for Mikasa to be put in a situation to kill Eren or not. She literally decided to ignore Zeke's order because Eren told her she's free and not God or slave so she can do what she wants. What, did the entire Mikasa killing Eren plan just jumped into her head later? But in last chapter she tried hard for the timeline to stay the same by ensuring the Dina eats Eren's mother and ignores Bert every time. What was the meaning of her willingly following Zeke's order just to stop when Eren gives her freedom of choice? As I said it just made sense back then she grew a liking for Eren becsuse while Zeke was still giving him orders, Eren told her to be free and do what she wants so she ultimately decided to go with him. How did this turn exactly into a 2000 years old struggling to get past a toxic relationship so planned for Mikasa to kill Eren? This chapter almost erases chapter 122 from existence it's ridiculous. It's also somehow erases chapter 131 in which Eren was talking to himself about killing everyone outside Paradis to become free and ensure Paradis' future, just to discover in last chapter he proceeded with the rumbling because he knew Armin would stop him and become a hero with only 20% still alive so the world will take time till they can fight back, and that even if Armin wouldn't have stopped him he still would have done it but he doesn't know why. Is he dumb? He did say in chapter 131 why he wanted to do the rumbling :freedom and Paradis' future. Chapter 139 makes it as if chapter 122 and 131 just didn't happen. Wow shit I just realised this too. Like this whole Mikasa/ymir slave thing is actually just rushed and isayama was not planning it or probably he was drunk when he wrote chapter 122 and 131 Its not rushed, its a retcon, both in ymir and historia, and with eren yeager. Ch 139 version its not even consistent with the dude that killed 2 grown men to defend a girls freedom and would have killed more to defend his, let alone with chad eren version. He never had romantic feelings for mikasa, never made those clear and thought in historia instead. I don't ship eremika nor do I ship erehisu but if I had to choose one I would go with the latter. Why? Historia and eren had way more in common. Eren trusted historia. They had the same ideals,goals and had toxic abuse parents. They would have connected more than Mikasa and eren would have |
Apr 12, 2021 11:19 PM
#1414
revapathak said: Vinicius234 said: revapathak said: el3mel said: revapathak said: el3mel said: Re reading chapter, I realized that Eren's plan of letting Armin stops him after eliminating 80% of humanity doesn't make sense. Forget Lelouch and focus on the target of the plan. Why leave 20% of humanity with possibilities of war still happening and make Armin the hero on the hope of him using this to negotiate peace, when you can simply just, you know, eliminate all humanity and leave Eldians alone to rule the world as they want? And then he could let Mikasa kill him to free Ymir or whatever, and the future of Paradis would have been easier and better? This plan doesn't make sense and contradicts all Eren's inner monologs when he kept on saying he would eliminate every single one on Earth. Why target 80% of humanity and leaves the world trying to achieve peace when you can make Eldians the only race available? It would have made sense and went more with his character if he said that Armin prevented him from achieving his target in killing everyone and making Eldians the only race available. Him not being able to provide a good reasoning for doing the rumbling even though he knew Armin would stop him still looks weird for a guy who kept shouting for freedom. He could have just repeated the same freedom speech and it would have made more sense, or that he hoped for a different conclusion than Armin stopping him after 80% were killed, instead of making it looks like he knew Armin would stop him and proceeded with the plan just to make him a hero. I mean I get the idea, he knew what was going to happen before even starting the rumbling but his dialogue could have changed and would have just looked better instead of making it looking like a plan from his perspective. He could have just said that he wanted to kill 100% to achieve the freedom he long desired and free Paradis as well but informed Armin that he knew he's going to prevent him from fulfilling his goal anyway, and that he's unsure what will happen to Paradis after that but he had to do the rumbling because he didn't find a better way to achieve freedom for himself and Paradis. This was his only option to become free and he took the gamble even though he knew Armin would stop. It just makes it look better and more in character than making it look like a masterplan that he wanted to achieve when it was clearly not in the inner monologs he was saying. He should have described leaving a 20% of humanity living as a failure for his plan not for it to be the actual plan. The Ymir's love for the king thing does almost feel like it retcon what Eren told her in chapter 122 or 121 I don't remember, when he told her she's free, not a god or slave but can do what she want, then she cried. This chapter made it feel like she was sad because she has always been a slave who follows order and never once had anyone let her do what she wants or make her free till Eren told her so, so she liked him and went with his plan for the rumbling instead of Zeke who was still ordering her. It fits the freedom theme so nicely, that Eren wanted to free everyone including her, and that's why she agreed on his plan. To retcon it in last chapter and make her a slave because she liked the king and went with Eren to see if Mikasa will kill him or not almost feels like butchering the theme of her character. She went with Eren not because he was finally the first one ever to give her a chance to be free and not following anyone's order but she went with him to let Mikasa kill him to get inspiration to do the same? She's 2000 years old and her only problem was that she couldn't move on from a toxic relationship? Come on. The writing of her character in chapter 121 or 122 was far more promising than this conclusion. Reiner and Annie being peace ambassadors? Thinking about it again it doesn't make sense. Even they themselves realized it doesn't make sense lol. Annie killed half the scouts back when she was a spy and Reiner broke the walls leading to ton of deaths for civilians but they put them peace ambassadors towards Paradis? Are they expecting the public to open their arms and hearts for them? I get why make Armin a peace ambassador even though he's a traitor but he's an experienced talker and his speeches kinda always work but Annie and Reiner? Really? This almost feels like giving Noble prize in Peace for a war criminal. Re reading the chapter doesn't solve its problems. It actually increases them. The more I think about each and every panel,the shittier the chapter becomes for me. Because 1) Ymir/Mikasa parallel sucked. Mikasa wasn't a slave to eren. She loved him. This 'getting rid of Someone who treated you like shit' thing about ymir made no sense. Eren has never wanted to hurt Mikasa. Even the I hate you think was a fake. Ymir was just a bitch who fell in love with her abuser I mean? What even? I just remembered something else. In chapter 122 Ymir was willing to obey Zeke's order and remove the reproduction ability from Eldians. She only stopped when Eren talked to her. How? This doesn't make sense if she was planning all along for Mikasa to be put in a situation to kill Eren or not. She literally decided to ignore Zeke's order because Eren told her she's free and not God or slave so she can do what she wants. What, did the entire Mikasa killing Eren plan just jumped into her head later? But in last chapter she tried hard for the timeline to stay the same by ensuring the Dina eats Eren's mother and ignores Bert every time. What was the meaning of her willingly following Zeke's order just to stop when Eren gives her freedom of choice? As I said it just made sense back then she grew a liking for Eren becsuse while Zeke was still giving him orders, Eren told her to be free and do what she wants so she ultimately decided to go with him. How did this turn exactly into a 2000 years old struggling to get past a toxic relationship so planned for Mikasa to kill Eren? This chapter almost erases chapter 122 from existence it's ridiculous. It's also somehow erases chapter 131 in which Eren was talking to himself about killing everyone outside Paradis to become free and ensure Paradis' future, just to discover in last chapter he proceeded with the rumbling because he knew Armin would stop him and become a hero with only 20% still alive so the world will take time till they can fight back, and that even if Armin wouldn't have stopped him he still would have done it but he doesn't know why. Is he dumb? He did say in chapter 131 why he wanted to do the rumbling :freedom and Paradis' future. Chapter 139 makes it as if chapter 122 and 131 just didn't happen. Wow shit I just realised this too. Like this whole Mikasa/ymir slave thing is actually just rushed and isayama was not planning it or probably he was drunk when he wrote chapter 122 and 131 Its not rushed, its a retcon, both in ymir and historia, and with eren yeager. Ch 139 version its not even consistent with the dude that killed 2 grown men to defend a girls freedom and would have killed more to defend his, let alone with chad eren version. He never had romantic feelings for mikasa, never made those clear and thought in historia instead. I don't ship eremika nor do I ship erehisu but if I had to choose one I would go with the latter. Why? Historia and eren had way more in common. Eren trusted historia. They had the same ideals,goals and had toxic abuse parents. They would have connected more than Mikasa and eren would have Eren smiled and laughed with Historia while he always frowned when he was with Mikasa, , lol even Mappa showed clearly that in Season 4 when we saw the flashback about Historia, for me to think that Eren was in love with Mikasa is like telling me that Eren was basically Kanye West for the whole manga and never showed once his feelings about Mikasa for his whole life... Either that or the ending retconned everything thus the deserved Backlash from the fans |
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Apr 13, 2021 1:47 AM
#1415
| I won't deny the ending has flaws but I also do not agree that the ending was so bad that it deserved a 1 or 2 rating. I gave the last chapter a 3 scoring. The problem I have with the ending was it feel rushed. There were still some unanswered questions about Ymir and the worm but I guess Isayama feel that its not important. I also have to read other ppl chapter review before I can understand some of the event that took place so its the story is not so straightforward to understand. Things I like about the chapter that it gave a proper closure to most of the AoT characters. |
Apr 13, 2021 1:58 AM
#1416
| YOOOO EREN KILLED HIS MOTHER AND IS NOW A BIRD LETS GOOOO PERFECT ENDING |
Apr 13, 2021 5:38 AM
#1417
| Ymir is supposed to represent humanity's love to submit to and be lead by kings and rulers. I think if you reread her chapters with that in mind, the allegory becomes very obvious. Mikasa is supposed to represent humanity's love to submit to their instincts. Only if we can let go of these parts of our nature and start thinking for ourselves can we truely be free. It's the result of Mikasa's choice, and the reason why Eren did everything to get to that result. Why he kept moving forward. If we can do that, we can think for ourselves, listen to Armin's story about the horrors of war, and understand that peace is the best conclusion. He tells Armin that he needs to "make it to the other side of the walls", after breaking the 3 walls on Paradis his message is supposed to make it past the 4th wall. Maybe this is just a mistranslation, but instead of yelling "If we win, we live. If we lose, we die.If we don't fight, we can't win." the Yaegerists yell "If YOU don't fight, WE can't win." I interpret that as "If you (Humanity as a whole) don't fight with each other, warmongers and fascists cannot win. |
Apr 13, 2021 6:11 AM
#1418
oldie8 said: im not buying that forced love theme in the last 3 chapters. watch the uprising arc again, chapter 122,130, 131 and 135 and you'll see that yams had a different direction in mind where historia and her child play a bigger role. something like eren trigger an emotion for her with the rumbling (ramps death) to defy king fritz and ending the titan curse, but with a pact between them that shell be reborn as historias and erens kid. Would make so much sense after historias story arcYmir is supposed to represent humanity's love to submit to and be lead by kings and rulers. I think if you reread her chapters with that in mind, the allegory becomes very obvious. Mikasa is supposed to represent humanity's love to submit to their instincts. Only if we can let go of these parts of our nature and start thinking for ourselves can we truely be free. It's the result of Mikasa's choice, and the reason why Eren did everything to get to that result. Why he kept moving forward. If we can do that, we can think for ourselves, listen to Armin's story about the horrors of war, and understand that peace is the best conclusion. He tells Armin that he needs to "make it to the other side of the walls", after breaking the 3 walls on Paradis his message is supposed to make it past the 4th wall. Maybe this is just a mistranslation, but instead of yelling "If we win, we live. If we lose, we die.If we don't fight, we can't win." the Yaegerists yell "If YOU don't fight, WE can't win." I interpret that as "If you (Humanity as a whole) don't fight with each other, warmongers and fascists cannot win. |
| Attack on Titan ended with chapter 123 and 130/131 is the epilogue |
Apr 13, 2021 6:39 AM
#1419
| Pseudo deep series ending in a pseudo deep way , huh. Kinda expected. Now some true art experts and desperate fanboys will start looking for deeper meanings behind inconsistent and illogical moments and in the end AOT will be known as NGE 2.0. |
| I hate everyone equally |
Apr 13, 2021 6:41 AM
#1420
Zevven said: they really think this ending is so deep and "bittersweet" and will age like wine. It will be remembered as one of the worst endings of media and retconning of characters. Screw the last 3 chapters Pseudo deep series ending in a pseudo deep way , huh. Kinda expected. Now some true art experts and desperate fanboys will start looking for deeper meanings behind inconsistent and illogical moments and in the end AOT will be known as NGE 2.0. |
| Attack on Titan ended with chapter 123 and 130/131 is the epilogue |
Apr 13, 2021 7:24 AM
#1421
| Why did Grisha tell Zeke to stop Eren, then right after that he go and gives the attack and founder to Eren (telling him one thing then making it hard to stop Eren🤣) what a great father The last chapter made it look like only Mikasa as an Ackermann is affected by the founders memory swiper. Who are the Ackermann's. Byproducts of experimenting with titans (wow good explanation, nothing else?) Who were the other eldians not affected by the founder's power? I can see Zeke building a sand castle in the paths saying: "If only this manga wasn't born, than no-one had to suffer" |
hisokathejoker77Apr 13, 2021 8:44 AM
Apr 13, 2021 7:33 AM
#1422
| I saw Eren turn into a bird and have been reading through these replies to cope |
Apr 13, 2021 8:48 AM
#1424
Yae_Simp said: What the point of this kind of question when It come to ending discussion? So you can trash his 'creativity' regardless of whichever answer he would give? So it give you a better feeling? No hard feeling, just find this kind of question funny.Adnash said: Yae_Simp said: So how would it be better? You ask about in what way I would modify the existing one or which fanconcept I see as the best one to be the best ending possible for Shingeki no Kyojin? Any is fine, how would you end it? If you see a burnt food, it is a burnt food. No need to ask how to better cook it. It's irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that the food is burnt. An epicurean doesn't mean s/he has to be a better cook that the chief. Same thing for reading. Reader doesn't need to be an outstanding writer to voice out his/her dissatisfaction with the series. |
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Apr 13, 2021 1:48 PM
#1425
TurtleKing3 said: The ENTIRE time traveling part of the story makes absolutely zero sense. Of course it is fiction, but in no explainable way possible, could have Eren achieved any of this within his original future. Since his father originally wouldn't have kill the Fritz family, and thus got killed by them (They were about to kill him when he cried on his knees, obviously they wouldn't have let him run). Thus the Attack Titan would have never been able to get into Eren's hands in first place. So there would be no woke Eren that could have send memories back to the past. This whole thing is called casual loop and to me this is cheap writing. But all the bandwagoners ofc telling me "Well there is no past and future, no beginning and end" What are you talking about?... Then the decision making of literally everyone was absolutely borderline stupid. Paradis was in the process of being GENOCIDED for like 100 years. Fellow innocent people (including CHILDREN as Krüger said) were executed and turned into monsters in order to attack paradis and eat the people there alive. Not to mention how they put Eldians WORLDWIDE into zones. I mean the guy who let Grishas sister be eaten by dogs was even promoted later in his career. But what does Hanji and the gang decided to do? They go against Eren... (Keep in mind, they had no PLAN B! The entire world was about to unleash their fury on Paradis, no diplomacy was working) Yes Eren's plan was equally cruel, but you had logically no alternative plan. Imagine in WW2. A jew rises up (Eren) and has the ability to KILL all Germans with 1 fingersnap. ... But then fellow jews (who lost family members and friends in the most brutal ways) decide to stop him, without having an alternate plan. This is terrible writing. Out of nowhere everyone can teleport. Hanji and Levi find Pieck and Magath somewhere randomely in the wilderness to propose a plan. Everyone (Jean, Armin, Connie, etc.) gets on board with this dumbass suicidal plan, because Hanji is angrily hitting the table while shouting "NO TO GENOCIDE!" No rules of the show were followed anymore. Throughout S1-S3 even a handful of mindless Titans gave them all trouble. Here they are, facing a DEMI GOD in Eren with like a million Colossal titans INCLUDING ALL SHIFTER TITANS THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY of their dumbass world. But yeah hey, they won, GG EZ. Well. And all in all it turns out to be a corny, cringeworthy love story. Ymir, who got rap*d, her family killed, her tongue cut out, hunted down with arrows, abused as a warmachine... .. fell in love. With who? The person who did all of this to her. "But it's Stockholm Syndrome" Dude. That's not how this syndrome works. This is just way to brutal, it's not 'just' being held hostage or anything similiar. This here is called terrible writing. I could go on for ages.. - Ymir randomely saving Zeke. Never explained. - Historia. 3 1/2 Seasons they were fighting to install her as a queen, then she disappears for the rest of the story. Wtf. - Eren killing his mother, for what? To ensure he is motivated to do what? Right: He doesn't know himself as he revealed to Armin. --- But furthermore, this dumbass scene revealed, that Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past. What the hell. With all this godlike power that he possessed, this is the ending that he achieved. Out of all the possiblites you could do with this ridiculous omnipotent power. He achieves nothing. I wanted this show to succeed, I rooted for Isayama. Been on board since the early manga chapters, before the fking anime was even out. Sad. I can't agree with you more. Ymir got such a power because of the worm, and this was how she used the power?! I feel terribly sorry for the worm; it definitely deserves a much better host and collaborator. The story eventually tells what is the worst scenario when an unsuitable person has the power. The last chapter ruined the whole work. Why do I think this way? No matter whether the last chapter seems logical or reasonable to some readers or not, in my opinion, it first destroyed the reason and legitimacy why Eren had a strong desire to fight, which was the starting point of the story. In addition, it said the root of the whole history was largely because of a ridiculous reason: Ymir's "love" toward the King, who treated her as a slave and tool. These two reasons are more than enough to make me feel sick about the whole work. From my point of view, the last chapter turned the foundation of all previous chapters into trash. With the whole story based on destroyed starting point and trash foundation, and all destruction came in the last minute, my rating is -139/10. |
nalyncoApr 14, 2021 7:53 PM
Apr 13, 2021 4:39 PM
#1426
nalynco said: TurtleKing3 said: The ENTIRE time traveling part of the story makes absolutely zero sense. Of course it is fiction, but in no explainable way possible, could have Eren achieved any of this within his original future. Since his father originally wouldn't have kill the Fritz family, and thus got killed by them (They were about to kill him when he cried on his knees, obviously they wouldn't have let him run). Thus the Attack Titan would have never been able to get into Eren's hands in first place. So there would be no woke Eren that could have send memories back to the past. This whole thing is called casual loop and to me this is cheap writing. But all the bandwagoners ofc telling me "Well there is no past and future, no beginning and end" What are you talking about?... Then the decision making of literally everyone was absolutely borderline stupid. Paradis was in the process of being GENOCIDED for like 100 years. Fellow innocent people (including CHILDREN as Krüger said) were executed and turned into monsters in order to attack paradis and eat the people there alive. Not to mention how they put Eldians WORLDWIDE into zones. I mean the guy who let Grishas sister be eaten by dogs was even promoted later in his career. But what does Hanji and the gang decided to do? They go against Eren... (Keep in mind, they had no PLAN B! The entire world was about to unleash their fury on Paradis, no diplomacy was working) Yes Eren's plan was equally cruel, but you had logically no alternative plan. Imagine in WW2. A jew rises up (Eren) and has the ability to KILL all Germans with 1 fingersnap. ... But then fellow jews (who lost family members and friends in the most brutal ways) decide to stop him, without having an alternate plan. This is terrible writing. Out of nowhere everyone can teleport. Hanji and Levi find Pieck and Magath somewhere randomely in the wilderness to propose a plan. Everyone (Jean, Armin, Connie, etc.) gets on board with this dumbass suicidal plan, because Hanji is angrily hitting the table while shouting "NO TO GENOCIDE!" No rules of the show were followed anymore. Throughout S1-S3 even a handful of mindless Titans gave them all trouble. Here they are, facing a DEMI GOD in Eren with like a million Colossal titans INCLUDING ALL SHIFTER TITANS THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY of their dumbass world. But yeah hey, they won, GG EZ. Well. And all in all it turns out to be a corny, cringeworthy love story. Ymir, who got rap*d, her family killed, her tongue cut out, hunted down with arrows, abused as a warmachine... .. fell in love. With who? The person who did all of this to her. "But it's Stockholm Syndrome" Dude. That's not how this syndrome works. This is just way to brutal, it's not 'just' being held hostage or anything similiar. This here is called terrible writing. I could go on for ages.. - Ymir randomely saving Zeke. Never explained. - Historia. 3 1/2 Seasons they were fighting to install her as a queen, then she disappears for the rest of the story. Wtf. - Eren killing his mother, for what? To ensure he is motivated to do what? Right: He doesn't know himself as he revealed to Armin. --- But furthermore, this dumbass scene revealed, that Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past. What the hell. With all this godlike power that he possessed, this is the ending that he achieved. Out of all the possiblites you could do with this ridiculous omnipotent power. He achieves nothing. I wanted this show to succeed, I rooted for Isayama. Been on board since the early manga chapters, before the fking anime was even out. Sad. I can't agree with you more. Ymir got such a power because of the worm, and this was how she used the power?! I feel terribly sorry for the worm; it definitely deserves a much better host and collaborator. The story eventually tells what is the worst scenario when an unsuitable person has the power. The last chapter ruined the whole work. I can't disagree more. There is no such thing as original or alternative timelines. The only complex thing is the fact that Eren, with the power of the founder and the attack titan, could walk through this timeline ("past, present and future") to make things go as they were. It is a closed loop in spacetime, where the origin of the events cannot be determined. This is a bit complex to understand because it is a paradox. But you can find out more by searching about bootstrap paradox. I don't thing this is cheap writing because the concept is not easy to work with and it was foreshadowed in the story. The decision to stop Eren was not dumb, since the conflict would not stop if the world was destroyed. It would only be reduced and delayed. It was even stated by Armin. Their decision was the most rational and ethic thing to do. Eren's plan to bring salvation by destroying the outside world was never logic. The jeagerists does not even act rationally. It is clear to me that the 'restauration of the eldian empire' was just based on fear, pride and other emotions. People make the same mistake in real life. Additionally, Eren's behavior towards Mikasa and Armin in that 'talk' was also not logic, as stated by Jean. Finally, Eren's actions were finally clarified with the events of the last chapter, proving his actual intention was logic. The genocide was avoided and they were left with a possibility of making a peaceful future that Eren entrusted in them. This is the most realistic ending possible, since there was no final solution to the conflict. The parallel with jews and nazis is not appropriate. Just because there are racism, interment zones and armbands does not mean that the story is fully a WWII parallel. There are references, yes, but the conflict between eldians and marleyans seems much more like israel and palestine. Moreover, there are plenty of other historical references in Attack on Titan. Try to think that way and you will find more meaning in the story. "Hanji and Levi find Pieck and Magath somewhere randomely in the wilderness" Pieck and Magath left Shinganshina to the outer area while Hanji and Levi were in the outer area heading to Shinganshina. Pieck was in titan form. It is obvious that they could find each other. I agree with you on Ymir loving the king. It was not well developed and seems weird. But it is not a love story. The final solution was based in love relationships, yes, but the story was about human conflict. - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. |
Apr 13, 2021 4:54 PM
#1427
| Lol, isayama can really made an spa made out of his fans's tears, he really made me and a lot of other fans cry a lot because of this sh1t is a great disappointment |
Apr 13, 2021 5:43 PM
#1428
marcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. |
Apr 13, 2021 6:58 PM
#1431
el3mel said: pretty sure she had a important role in yams original ending, not in thismarcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. |
| Attack on Titan ended with chapter 123 and 130/131 is the epilogue |
Apr 13, 2021 7:24 PM
#1432
yaegerist-15 said: el3mel said: pretty sure she had a important role in yams original ending, not in thismarcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. It definitely feels like he was planning something with this sub plot then decided later to sweep it under the carpet. |
Apr 13, 2021 7:31 PM
#1433
el3mel said: marcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. Ymir saved Zeke because she is the one who owns the titan power. But what I mean is that it was not her own will. After re-reading chapter 115, as you suggested, I think the best interpretation is that it was Eren's will. If you have a look on that, in the moment Zere is almost dead it shows his memories with Xavier talking about how the titan power could be activated, and then his memories with Eren planning everything. It suggests that Ymir's action of saving Zeke in that moment is a consequence of this plan. At first, the reader can think that it was Zeke controlling Ymir to save himself. But later we find out that Eren was the one who sided with Ymir and would be the only one capable of doing that. So, Eren saved Zeke in the past and got access to the founder power in the future. So, as I said before, it is a closed loop in a timeline where the original event cannot be determined. Regarding Historia, I don't know the point of the discussion. I see no problem in that but I respect if you didn't like it. She has an major role in some moments and minor in others. I think her minor participation in the last arcs is reasonable since she is not in the front lines anymore. Also, her pregnancy is explained to delay the plan of feeding Zeke to her. It was part of the political plot of the scouts v military police, introduced in the first arc when Eren was judged. From beginning to end, it can be taken as the scouts being progressists and the military police being conservative. Historia's development is all about leaving the submission from her father, the representation of the system, and siding with Eren, the representation of the change. In the end, she becomes the representation of the system, as it is the cicle. What do you think she did with the ship? |
Apr 13, 2021 7:47 PM
#1434
marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. Ymir saved Zeke because she is the one who owns the titan power. But what I mean is that it was not her own will. After re-reading chapter 115, as you suggested, I think the best interpretation is that it was Eren's will. If you have a look on that, in the moment Zere is almost dead it shows his memories with Xavier talking about how the titan power could be activated, and then his memories with Eren planning everything. It suggests that Ymir's action of saving Zeke in that moment is a consequence of this plan. At first, the reader can think that it was Zeke controlling Ymir to save himself. But later we find out that Eren was the one who sided with Ymir and would be the only one capable of doing that. So, Eren saved Zeke in the past and got access to the founder power in the future. So, as I said before, it is a closed loop in a timeline where the original event cannot be determined. Regarding Historia, I don't know the point of the discussion. I see no problem in that but I respect if you didn't like it. She has an major role in some moments and minor in others. I think her minor participation in the last arcs is reasonable since she is not in the front lines anymore. Also, her pregnancy is explained to delay the plan of feeding Zeke to her. It was part of the political plot of the scouts v military police, introduced in the first arc when Eren was judged. From beginning to end, it can be taken as the scouts being progressists and the military police being conservative. Historia's development is all about leaving the submission from her father, the representation of the system, and siding with Eren, the representation of the change. In the end, she becomes the representation of the system, as it is the cicle. What do you think she did with the ship? That's the problem the poster was talking about. Isayama left the reason for why Ymir saved Zeke ambiguous and for the reader's interpretation. I don't think this point is a huge plot hole or anything, I didn't think about it that much, but it would have been nice to get a solid reason from the author for this moment, instead of leaving us to theorize. I talked about the beast titan inheritance a lot of time. Zeke was in no threat of being eaten. He had the entire MP under his control thanks to the wine trick all along. He escaped Levi's camp when he wanted. He was just playing along, but if they ever tried to feed him to Historia he would have just threatened them with the spinal fluid titanization. This renders Historia's pregnancy to be really not needed from plot perspective. Pregnant or not Zeke had his own methods of saving himself from being eaten. It was Historia's own plan to get pregnant not the scouts. It was her own idea that she suggested in her private talk with Eren in chapter 130, something that wasn't needed because Eren would have known about Zeke's wine plan from the start regardless thanks to his future seeing ability but he apparently just agreed on her suggestion. Beside, his future seeing ability would have let him know that that titan powers would vanish from the world few months later when Armin stops him. Historia comes down at the end as a wasted character. They spent an entire arc installing her as a queen and after that she became of no importance for the plot. At least make the child of any significance to the future of the world post Eren death. The child sub plot just feels pointless. You don't spend entire arcs building up a character so much then decide to side line him/her completely after that. |
Apr 13, 2021 8:11 PM
#1435
| Just re-read the entire series. No, the ending didn’t ruin it. |
Apr 13, 2021 8:21 PM
#1436
CuteAssTiger said: Ok, so now it's time to get serious. I can't see a cute ass tiger make fun of me.op doesn't have a point is just trolling . So I'm done with this thread . Have a nice day NextUniverse said: So I got through most of the English scans. I have to say that this ending I disappointing, but I won't call this utter shit. Everything just seems to lose meaning very quickly, Eren going "incel" mode was a surprise too. He really didn't hold out his Lelouch phase well. For the sake of the story? Idk tbh. Then you have Mikasa suddenly becoming the centre of the story which was strange, she is useless as shit mind you lol. Previous chapters like 137 and 138 had their Deus ex Machina and random stuff happening with no proper explanation. I am just going to assume that Ymir is so based that Yams couldn't even write for her to do something he wanted. What I will point out with the good stuff in this chapter is that, well, tbf, AOT had a lot of simple messages, yes, it suddenly becomes pseudo deep. But it was clever of Yams to use a simple-minded character (Mikasa) as the answer to the deep questions. The "good" ending feels good really too. I can't say it was what I wanted. It would have hit harder if Jean, Connie, Gabi, and the rest died. From there something like Mikasa showing Eren's head to the Marleyans and using that as an example that "hate is now gone" would be better imo. But a good ending did its bit and it feels nice I guess. People being happy is a good thing lol. Cheesy yes, but that point can be proven. I also think Yams should have nerfed the Rumbling so it would look less like plot armour for the alliance, and would also give a reason for Eren to go all out whilst the alliance can still win. But I guess then the effect of the Rumbling wouldn't be as big yeah that's a problem, Yams shot himself in the foot with the Rumbling one lol. Then you have a 12-page aftermath which doesn't leave room to clear up discrepancies. Sad but it is what it is. 5/10 Ending. 4 if I am feeling harsh lol. 9-10/10 Overall. AOT is a very good manga, for the most part, the ending doesn't hold well because of swift changes and sudden things happening for the sake of happily ever after. There were better ways to go around this but Yams didn't do that as so. This just doesn't feel like an AOT ending. Seems like no one can tho lmao. In any case. I will go and wait for the official to read again, but this was something I won't forget tbh. The whole manga I mean. Yes, left a bad taste in my mouth, but this was amazing stuff lol. Whatever the next hype is (hopefully CSM), I wish for something better. Was fun here tho. side note, not sure why Yams thought it was ok to send soldiers to their death due to monke, hell, many more died in awful ways too, but then conveniently this has a happily ever after. k then. ELLEN BECOMES DOVE (CRYING) keragamming said: Ok, so I have literally just finish reading the final chapter, I read the first page yesterday but found the dialogue to be cringy so I thought I need to wait for the official translation as I want to have a fair opinion on the final chapter. So I can now say with confidence that I wish this chapter was shorter and that the entire Armin and Eren conversation didn't happen at all, because that is where most of the bad dialogue and cringe came from, this completely destroyed Eren character, I didn't read much of the leaks so I didn't know it was That bad This was my expression during the Armin and Eren conversation.  The first two pages alone almost put me out, I had to take a 2 minutes break after reading that. When Eren said that Ymir is in love with Karl Fritz, I was like "no Isayama its called stockholm syndrome!" And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king,🙄 when Eren starts talking about Mikasa being the one to free her. I literally roll my eyes.🙄 This page was so cringe! I had to take 5 minutes break and just shake my head, went to my fridge took out a drink and came back to my laptop, from there I just wanted it to hurry up and end, because I fear it will only get worse.  And then that scene where Eren apparently leads the smiling titan towards his mom, I was thinking was this really necessary to include Isayama? How much more do you want to destroy Eren character? The second half of the chapter wasn't bad imo, I don't have a problem with happy ending in fact after what the character went through on a story narrative it can be argue that they deserve to have an happy ending, but at the same I can understand others that don't like this as the ending we got is predictable and generic but safe at the same time and I think a unconventional ending would make the series stand out more imo. Though I will admit I did feel some sadness by time I reach the end, regarding Eren death, and I guess it can be argue that Eren death makes it a bittersweet ending, but excluding that its basically a happy ending. Final thoughts, this chapter did more damage to the series overall. Isayama failed to answer some unanswered plot thread, while at the same time contradicting Eren character, I never had any idea that Eren had Fellings for Mikasa, Isayama himself in a an interview said that he find its weird that childhood friends could fall in love, not to mention Eren and Mikasa are basically brother and sister, so I find this development odd. Historia, all I will have to say is she became a wasted character since the timeskip and based off the set up from previous chapters I thought that it was setting Hsitroia and her pregnancy to have a big importance but in the end it came to nothing. Eren and Armin discussion felt like I was reading a fanfic and this just tell me that Isayama was burnt out and just wanted to hurry up and end the series, he even said it in the interviews. Overall, I will give this chapter..... a 3/5 or 2/5, I'm very conflicted on which one it should be. I have to give this series a 8/10, The journey was worth it, I had a blast reading this series and that will never change, but this ending will have a bittersweet taste whenever I think about it. Thank you Isayama for this 7 years of excitement and happiness this series has brought to me and many fans, but now its time to say goodbye. I probably wont be as active on mal anymore, I was already losing interest in this medium overall and really snk is what made me this active as I haven't completed that much anime last year. But I will never completely abandon the medium, but I definitely wont be as active anymore. keragamming said: Tsarko said: Man if it were only chapters 130 and 131. It's a lot more than that, his entire development throughout the whole story has been thrown out of the window. And it wasn't only Eren that was ruined... Agree, it's bullshit Eren had zero feelings for Mikasa in a romantic way, even Isayama if I remember correctly in a long time interview said that Eren doesn't see Mikasa in a romantic way because fans were shipping them. The final panel was literally not the final panel as he had promise another hint that he did modify the ending, the baby in that panel had bushy bro and unique nose, hint hint look at historian baby in the final chapter and compare it to the final panel tease in 2018. Chapter 130, Historia and Eren talk now makes absolutely no sense, what was the purpose of she asking him "what if I have a child" ? When Eren already said he was against her hearing a child and being a sacrifice? Historia character has been ruin as well and it basically serve no purpose since the timeskip, because the only way for Historia to have a big importance in this final arc even with having little screen time would have been if Eren was the father of her child. Shipping aside this makes more sense, I am still scratching my head that Eren supposedly likes Mikasa. His motivation is also ruined and makes no sense now, Isayama literally ruined his main character completely into this pathetic shell of himself. There is so much I could rant about but I will stop, I too believe he had change the ending from the 2018 ending he had in mind because this ending makes no sense. Honestly the more I think about it the more upset I get, I may need to avoid this sub forum because I don't want to reach the point where I may even drop the score any further. cchigu said: Neither was Chimera Ant arc ending non-cliche nor is this AoT ending non-cliche. Both were trying to evoke emotions using tricks that we have seen infinite times, but the execution of Chimera Ant arc's ending was well done and hence it is generally liked by everyone. On the other hand, AoT's ending was nonsensical and felt more like a parody of the series, or at least this is what the fans think. For me personally, I always had a feeling that it would all go crashing down and the ending would be your typical battle shonen ending. I mean, the franchise was as pretentious as Akame ga Kill since the beginning! MironBiron said: Of-course. Isayama just pussied out in the end. He wasn’t so confident about his original ending in the first place, and he probably isn’t self confident enough in general (keep in mind that he started AoT around the time that he was 20) to withstand pressure from Kodansha and EreMika shippers thus he blacked out in the end. It probably happened around Chapter 135, but Zeke’s words to Armin (So, Ymir ate you too...) point to a much different, more Ymir-focused ending than the one that we got. Chapter 137 is probably when he blacked out, threw away his original drafts in order to focus on this current ending. Eren’s original goal was to use The Rumbling in order to trigger an emotional reaction from Ymir strong enough to defy King Fritz’s will and lift up the Curse. The panels of Ymir freeing the pigs in Chapter 135 were there in order to make us familiar with Ymir’s desire to be free and witness the freedom of other living things, the same exact urges that ended up in her punishment. In order to make her disobey King Fritz’s will, Eren wanted to show Ymir a massacre so big that it would bring back her demolished sense of freedom; The emotions she had while freeing a bunch of King Fritz’s pigs (that would otherwise be killed and consumed as food) were building up to a perfect parallel of her freeing humanity of their suffering by lifting up the Curse. If we follow the lore of Attack on Titan, and listen to Pastor Nick’s words to Hanji at the beginning of the Clash of the Titans, we can conclude that Wall Titans are actually just mindless Titans who can move independently from The Founder so long there’s sunlight. Thus, the only way for The Rumbling to actually stop, would lie in Ymir Fritz’s desire to lift up the curse. And the only way to get her to that point would be to show her The Rumbling and trigger the same, wholesome urge she had 2000 years ago while freeing those pigs (her first and only time disobeying King Fritz). I don’t know the exact details of it because I’m not Isayama, but in the original ending, Eren had to go so far with his plan that he ended up killing his friends as well. My guess is that originally Armin sacrificed himself in order to trigger a sense of empathy from Ymir, his character was building up towards sacrifice heavily. Ymir’s account of Ramzi’s death played a big part too. Another big factor playing into the original ending, would be a deal made between Eren and Ymir, which would allow Ymir to become reborn as Eren and Historia’s child in a free world, with a dad who continued to push forward in order to seclude his goals, but at what cost? Valyrian1124 said: This is the final chapter of the manga. We have 40 pages to provide closure... and they spent half of it on exposition about "blah blah motives and how the power works". Total nonsense. *sigh* Oh look, it's the stupid Code Geass plan all over again! "I shall become a heniously evil mass murder, a villain, that everyone will unite to take down. Thus, when I die, there shall be a world of peace!" goodness gracious stop using this idiotic plan people. "80% of humanity was killed during the rumbling" goodness gracious fuck you "She waited 2000 years for someone to free her from the pain of love" what Are they really talking about "who is going to marry Mikasa" now of all times? "I wanted to turn the earth into a brand new land" dude, the weight of the colossal titans has hard packed the earth so much that it can never be tilled by plows! It would take explosives and heavy machinery to excavate and unpack and loosen the dirt! Nothing will grow outside of the 20% of the world that was untouched again. It will take hundreds to thousands of years for erosion to loosen the soil and allow life outside of the 20% zone to thrive again!  What the fuck? "Thank you?" No! Fuck him! Well, it's nice that Connie and Jean lived. But the 8 year/12 year terminal curse being magicked away just like that... I dunno. Why is Mikasa walking away? The whole stretch of the Marleyan peninsula/continent towards Paradis is a barren wasteland without anything to eat, and any vehicles to cross the ocean to Paradis have been destroyed. She needs to stick with the group here at the Marleyan base and head further south to find another harbor, or to fix the plane. Final thoughts I don't know. Meh, I guess? I stand by my statement in 2017 that I feel that I began losing interest after chapter 100 when he went full blown mass murderer and the series became very nihilistic. I had overall liked the series up until that point. But everything after... also, once again Japan is back at it again with the victimization of evil. Mass murderers are never held to account for their deeds. The story has to bend over backwards about how "misunderstood" or how "noble" they really were and how tragic their life was. Really grates me. Adnash said: This ending would be good for a mediocre manga full of romance and unrequited love elements... except Shingeki no Kyojin was not like that. Seriously, what was that? I didn't expect a flawless last chapter answering all questions. There were too many of them to answer even most of them in just one chapter that was also the final chapter of the whole series. I did not care about ships like EreHisu or EreKasa or whatever they were called like. I didn't care about Yaegerist stuff and Eren being a mastermind that he never was and I never understood why he was treated like that by many fans, but whatever, everyone have their own taste after all. I didn't expect much. Just a decent ending, even a mediocre one, wrapping up the story. This ending was clearly below average. It was not a disaster like Alternative Universe ending, but it doesn't mean it was good. It was bad, only slightly better than two theories I found before as the worst ending theories (AU ending and time loop ending). The story was wrapped up in a very generally way, being "enriched" by weird lovey-dovey elements and naivety beyond comparision towards the political and social aspects of the plot that were so well presented in several previous arcs, reaching their peak during Marley arc and War for Paradis arc (until the Rumbling). It's a shame that such an awesome manga had to have ending like this... Bizarre ending reminding more of a meme ending of some sort than actual real conclusion of this story. If the ending was at least average, I wouldn't change my score for this manga from 10/10, since I appreciate the journey through all those chapters I was able experience. However I can't give that kind of score to something that has such a bad ending. How did I rate this single chapter? Well, if AU or time loop endings would be 1/5, and AnR ending would be 5/5, and Alliance (bittersweet) ending would be 3/5, this chapter deserved to be rated as 2/5. |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
Apr 13, 2021 8:28 PM
#1437
el3mel said: marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. Ymir saved Zeke because she is the one who owns the titan power. But what I mean is that it was not her own will. After re-reading chapter 115, as you suggested, I think the best interpretation is that it was Eren's will. If you have a look on that, in the moment Zere is almost dead it shows his memories with Xavier talking about how the titan power could be activated, and then his memories with Eren planning everything. It suggests that Ymir's action of saving Zeke in that moment is a consequence of this plan. At first, the reader can think that it was Zeke controlling Ymir to save himself. But later we find out that Eren was the one who sided with Ymir and would be the only one capable of doing that. So, Eren saved Zeke in the past and got access to the founder power in the future. So, as I said before, it is a closed loop in a timeline where the original event cannot be determined. Regarding Historia, I don't know the point of the discussion. I see no problem in that but I respect if you didn't like it. She has an major role in some moments and minor in others. I think her minor participation in the last arcs is reasonable since she is not in the front lines anymore. Also, her pregnancy is explained to delay the plan of feeding Zeke to her. It was part of the political plot of the scouts v military police, introduced in the first arc when Eren was judged. From beginning to end, it can be taken as the scouts being progressists and the military police being conservative. Historia's development is all about leaving the submission from her father, the representation of the system, and siding with Eren, the representation of the change. In the end, she becomes the representation of the system, as it is the cicle. What do you think she did with the ship? That's the problem the poster was talking about. Isayama left the reason for why Ymir saved Zeke ambiguous and for the reader's interpretation. I don't think this point is a huge plot hole or anything, I didn't think about it that much, but it would have been nice to get a solid reason from the author for this moment, instead of leaving us to theorize. I talked about the beast titan inheritance a lot of time. Zeke was in no threat of being eaten. He had the entire MP under his control thanks to the wine trick all along. He escaped Levi's camp when he wanted. He was just playing along, but if they ever tried to feed him to Historia he would have just threatened them with the spinal fluid titanization. This renders Historia's pregnancy to be really not needed from plot perspective. Pregnant or not Zeke had his own methods of saving himself from being eaten. It was Historia's own plan to get pregnant not the scouts. It was her own idea that she suggested in her private talk with Eren in chapter 130, something that wasn't needed because Eren would have known about Zeke's wine plan from the start regardless thanks to his future seeing ability but he apparently just agreed on her suggestion. Beside, his future seeing ability would have let him know that that titan powers would vanish from the world few months later when Armin stops him. Historia comes down at the end as a wasted character. They spent an entire arc installing her as a queen and after that she became of no importance for the plot. At least make the child of any significance to the future of the world post Eren death. The child sub plot just feels pointless. You don't spend entire arcs building up a character so much then decide to side line him/her completely after that. I don't think Historia was a wasted character. She had a great arc that came full circle when she became the queen. But I agree that Historia's pregnancy ended up having no effect on the plot and it seems frustrating. Maybe Isayama was only using her pregnancy as bait to misguide the reader from Eren's true plan. He could also have a more relevant role for this but ended up changing his mind. Or maybe he hasn't enough time to work on her character during the last arc. I think the narrative of AoT is fast paced, and I like it. But I really feel that the last arc was rushed and left me the impression that most of the complaints about the story are due to things that weren't developed enough instead of plot holes or bad writing. Or this is just my fanboyism speaking. haha |
Apr 13, 2021 8:35 PM
#1438
marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. Ymir saved Zeke because she is the one who owns the titan power. But what I mean is that it was not her own will. After re-reading chapter 115, as you suggested, I think the best interpretation is that it was Eren's will. If you have a look on that, in the moment Zere is almost dead it shows his memories with Xavier talking about how the titan power could be activated, and then his memories with Eren planning everything. It suggests that Ymir's action of saving Zeke in that moment is a consequence of this plan. At first, the reader can think that it was Zeke controlling Ymir to save himself. But later we find out that Eren was the one who sided with Ymir and would be the only one capable of doing that. So, Eren saved Zeke in the past and got access to the founder power in the future. So, as I said before, it is a closed loop in a timeline where the original event cannot be determined. Regarding Historia, I don't know the point of the discussion. I see no problem in that but I respect if you didn't like it. She has an major role in some moments and minor in others. I think her minor participation in the last arcs is reasonable since she is not in the front lines anymore. Also, her pregnancy is explained to delay the plan of feeding Zeke to her. It was part of the political plot of the scouts v military police, introduced in the first arc when Eren was judged. From beginning to end, it can be taken as the scouts being progressists and the military police being conservative. Historia's development is all about leaving the submission from her father, the representation of the system, and siding with Eren, the representation of the change. In the end, she becomes the representation of the system, as it is the cicle. What do you think she did with the ship? That's the problem the poster was talking about. Isayama left the reason for why Ymir saved Zeke ambiguous and for the reader's interpretation. I don't think this point is a huge plot hole or anything, I didn't think about it that much, but it would have been nice to get a solid reason from the author for this moment, instead of leaving us to theorize. I talked about the beast titan inheritance a lot of time. Zeke was in no threat of being eaten. He had the entire MP under his control thanks to the wine trick all along. He escaped Levi's camp when he wanted. He was just playing along, but if they ever tried to feed him to Historia he would have just threatened them with the spinal fluid titanization. This renders Historia's pregnancy to be really not needed from plot perspective. Pregnant or not Zeke had his own methods of saving himself from being eaten. It was Historia's own plan to get pregnant not the scouts. It was her own idea that she suggested in her private talk with Eren in chapter 130, something that wasn't needed because Eren would have known about Zeke's wine plan from the start regardless thanks to his future seeing ability but he apparently just agreed on her suggestion. Beside, his future seeing ability would have let him know that that titan powers would vanish from the world few months later when Armin stops him. Historia comes down at the end as a wasted character. They spent an entire arc installing her as a queen and after that she became of no importance for the plot. At least make the child of any significance to the future of the world post Eren death. The child sub plot just feels pointless. You don't spend entire arcs building up a character so much then decide to side line him/her completely after that. I don't think Historia was a wasted character. She had a great arc that came full circle when she became the queen. But I agree that Historia's pregnancy ended up having no effect on the plot and it seems frustrating. Maybe Isayama was only using her pregnancy as bait to misguide the reader from Eren's true plan. He could also have a more relevant role for this but ended up changing his mind. Or maybe he hasn't enough time to work on her character during the last arc. I think the narrative of AoT is fast paced, and I like it. But I really feel that the last arc was rushed and left me the impression that most of the complaints about the story are due to things that weren't developed enough instead of plot holes or bad writing. Or this is just my fanboyism speaking. haha I won't say plot holes, but characters contradicting themselves, underdeveloped relationships and rushed/pointless sub plots killed it for me. Historia's subplot wasn't the only incident for me because Connie's mother subplot in chapter 126 got solved in mere seconds and felt really, really rushed even though the previous chapter built for it in an interesting way, but Armin just solved it in 5 seconds. The arc was just honestly underwhelming in comparison to the previous arcs. |
Apr 13, 2021 8:48 PM
#1439
el3mel said: marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. Ymir saved Zeke because she is the one who owns the titan power. But what I mean is that it was not her own will. After re-reading chapter 115, as you suggested, I think the best interpretation is that it was Eren's will. If you have a look on that, in the moment Zere is almost dead it shows his memories with Xavier talking about how the titan power could be activated, and then his memories with Eren planning everything. It suggests that Ymir's action of saving Zeke in that moment is a consequence of this plan. At first, the reader can think that it was Zeke controlling Ymir to save himself. But later we find out that Eren was the one who sided with Ymir and would be the only one capable of doing that. So, Eren saved Zeke in the past and got access to the founder power in the future. So, as I said before, it is a closed loop in a timeline where the original event cannot be determined. Regarding Historia, I don't know the point of the discussion. I see no problem in that but I respect if you didn't like it. She has an major role in some moments and minor in others. I think her minor participation in the last arcs is reasonable since she is not in the front lines anymore. Also, her pregnancy is explained to delay the plan of feeding Zeke to her. It was part of the political plot of the scouts v military police, introduced in the first arc when Eren was judged. From beginning to end, it can be taken as the scouts being progressists and the military police being conservative. Historia's development is all about leaving the submission from her father, the representation of the system, and siding with Eren, the representation of the change. In the end, she becomes the representation of the system, as it is the cicle. What do you think she did with the ship? That's the problem the poster was talking about. Isayama left the reason for why Ymir saved Zeke ambiguous and for the reader's interpretation. I don't think this point is a huge plot hole or anything, I didn't think about it that much, but it would have been nice to get a solid reason from the author for this moment, instead of leaving us to theorize. I talked about the beast titan inheritance a lot of time. Zeke was in no threat of being eaten. He had the entire MP under his control thanks to the wine trick all along. He escaped Levi's camp when he wanted. He was just playing along, but if they ever tried to feed him to Historia he would have just threatened them with the spinal fluid titanization. This renders Historia's pregnancy to be really not needed from plot perspective. Pregnant or not Zeke had his own methods of saving himself from being eaten. It was Historia's own plan to get pregnant not the scouts. It was her own idea that she suggested in her private talk with Eren in chapter 130, something that wasn't needed because Eren would have known about Zeke's wine plan from the start regardless thanks to his future seeing ability but he apparently just agreed on her suggestion. Beside, his future seeing ability would have let him know that that titan powers would vanish from the world few months later when Armin stops him. Historia comes down at the end as a wasted character. They spent an entire arc installing her as a queen and after that she became of no importance for the plot. At least make the child of any significance to the future of the world post Eren death. The child sub plot just feels pointless. You don't spend entire arcs building up a character so much then decide to side line him/her completely after that. I don't think Historia was a wasted character. She had a great arc that came full circle when she became the queen. But I agree that Historia's pregnancy ended up having no effect on the plot and it seems frustrating. Maybe Isayama was only using her pregnancy as bait to misguide the reader from Eren's true plan. He could also have a more relevant role for this but ended up changing his mind. Or maybe he hasn't enough time to work on her character during the last arc. I think the narrative of AoT is fast paced, and I like it. But I really feel that the last arc was rushed and left me the impression that most of the complaints about the story are due to things that weren't developed enough instead of plot holes or bad writing. Or this is just my fanboyism speaking. haha I won't say plot holes, but characters contradicting themselves, underdeveloped relationships and rushed/pointless sub plots killed it for me. Historia's subplot wasn't the only incident for me because Connie's mother subplot in chapter 126 got solved in mere seconds and felt really, really rushed even though the previous chapter built for it in an interesting way, but Armin just solved it in 5 seconds. The arc was just honestly underwhelming in comparison to the previous arcs. I totally agree with you about Connie's mother subplot. Ymir past, her relationship with the king and her life accomplishments should have been more addressed. Also, Annie joining the alliance was really rushed. Also, the effects of the rumbling could have been more explored. Anyway, maybe the anime improves the manga a bit, as it was done several times. Some OVAs with side stories would also be welcome. |
Apr 13, 2021 8:50 PM
#1440
marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: el3mel said: marcioma said: - Ymir randomely saving Zeke: It was never stated that it was Ymir. Isayama left it ambiguous on purpose like many things to make people thing and imagine. And you call it bad writing. - Historia: she was main character only in arcs 3 and 4. Also, she did not disappear. She got pregnant and stayed in the countryside to have the baby safely. She also appears in several moments, flashbacks and in the last chapter. whatever... - Eren killing his mother: It was never stated that it was Ymir. You were tricked by Isayama again. - Eren had the ability to control Titans/ Eldians from the past: but he only achieved that moment considering all the events that preceed the rumbling. He could not change the timeline as his wish although in the world on Attack on Titan his power is seem as god or devil. I wanted this show to succeed and it did. Ymir saved Zeke. Re-read chapter 115 again. Regarding Historia, were you trying to prove his point ? She did disappear. His pregnancy and child have no purpose for the plot as stated several times, Zeke was never in fear of being eaten. To build her character so much then throw it out of the window for the last 2 arcs is weird writing. Her pregnancy and child by the end feels like just a way Isayama thought of to write her out of story completely so that no one asks about where she's. Ymir saved Zeke because she is the one who owns the titan power. But what I mean is that it was not her own will. After re-reading chapter 115, as you suggested, I think the best interpretation is that it was Eren's will. If you have a look on that, in the moment Zere is almost dead it shows his memories with Xavier talking about how the titan power could be activated, and then his memories with Eren planning everything. It suggests that Ymir's action of saving Zeke in that moment is a consequence of this plan. At first, the reader can think that it was Zeke controlling Ymir to save himself. But later we find out that Eren was the one who sided with Ymir and would be the only one capable of doing that. So, Eren saved Zeke in the past and got access to the founder power in the future. So, as I said before, it is a closed loop in a timeline where the original event cannot be determined. Regarding Historia, I don't know the point of the discussion. I see no problem in that but I respect if you didn't like it. She has an major role in some moments and minor in others. I think her minor participation in the last arcs is reasonable since she is not in the front lines anymore. Also, her pregnancy is explained to delay the plan of feeding Zeke to her. It was part of the political plot of the scouts v military police, introduced in the first arc when Eren was judged. From beginning to end, it can be taken as the scouts being progressists and the military police being conservative. Historia's development is all about leaving the submission from her father, the representation of the system, and siding with Eren, the representation of the change. In the end, she becomes the representation of the system, as it is the cicle. What do you think she did with the ship? That's the problem the poster was talking about. Isayama left the reason for why Ymir saved Zeke ambiguous and for the reader's interpretation. I don't think this point is a huge plot hole or anything, I didn't think about it that much, but it would have been nice to get a solid reason from the author for this moment, instead of leaving us to theorize. I talked about the beast titan inheritance a lot of time. Zeke was in no threat of being eaten. He had the entire MP under his control thanks to the wine trick all along. He escaped Levi's camp when he wanted. He was just playing along, but if they ever tried to feed him to Historia he would have just threatened them with the spinal fluid titanization. This renders Historia's pregnancy to be really not needed from plot perspective. Pregnant or not Zeke had his own methods of saving himself from being eaten. It was Historia's own plan to get pregnant not the scouts. It was her own idea that she suggested in her private talk with Eren in chapter 130, something that wasn't needed because Eren would have known about Zeke's wine plan from the start regardless thanks to his future seeing ability but he apparently just agreed on her suggestion. Beside, his future seeing ability would have let him know that that titan powers would vanish from the world few months later when Armin stops him. Historia comes down at the end as a wasted character. They spent an entire arc installing her as a queen and after that she became of no importance for the plot. At least make the child of any significance to the future of the world post Eren death. The child sub plot just feels pointless. You don't spend entire arcs building up a character so much then decide to side line him/her completely after that. I don't think Historia was a wasted character. She had a great arc that came full circle when she became the queen. But I agree that Historia's pregnancy ended up having no effect on the plot and it seems frustrating. Maybe Isayama was only using her pregnancy as bait to misguide the reader from Eren's true plan. He could also have a more relevant role for this but ended up changing his mind. Or maybe he hasn't enough time to work on her character during the last arc. I think the narrative of AoT is fast paced, and I like it. But I really feel that the last arc was rushed and left me the impression that most of the complaints about the story are due to things that weren't developed enough instead of plot holes or bad writing. Or this is just my fanboyism speaking. haha I won't say plot holes, but characters contradicting themselves, underdeveloped relationships and rushed/pointless sub plots killed it for me. Historia's subplot wasn't the only incident for me because Connie's mother subplot in chapter 126 got solved in mere seconds and felt really, really rushed even though the previous chapter built for it in an interesting way, but Armin just solved it in 5 seconds. The arc was just honestly underwhelming in comparison to the previous arcs. I totally agree with you about Connie's mother subplot. Ymir past, her relationship with the king and her life accomplishments should have been more addressed. Also, Annie joining the alliance was really rushed. Also, the effects of the rumbling could have been more explored. Anyway, maybe the anime improves the manga a bit, as it was done several times. Some OVAs with side stories would also be welcome. Yeah I agree on all of these. |
Apr 13, 2021 11:05 PM
#1441
Peeti said: CuteAssTiger said: Ok, so now it's time to get serious. I can't see a cute ass tiger make fun of me.op doesn't have a point is just trolling . So I'm done with this thread . Have a nice day NextUniverse said: So I got through most of the English scans. I have to say that this ending I disappointing, but I won't call this utter shit. Everything just seems to lose meaning very quickly, Eren going "incel" mode was a surprise too. He really didn't hold out his Lelouch phase well. For the sake of the story? Idk tbh. Then you have Mikasa suddenly becoming the centre of the story which was strange, she is useless as shit mind you lol. Previous chapters like 137 and 138 had their Deus ex Machina and random stuff happening with no proper explanation. I am just going to assume that Ymir is so based that Yams couldn't even write for her to do something he wanted. What I will point out with the good stuff in this chapter is that, well, tbf, AOT had a lot of simple messages, yes, it suddenly becomes pseudo deep. But it was clever of Yams to use a simple-minded character (Mikasa) as the answer to the deep questions. The "good" ending feels good really too. I can't say it was what I wanted. It would have hit harder if Jean, Connie, Gabi, and the rest died. From there something like Mikasa showing Eren's head to the Marleyans and using that as an example that "hate is now gone" would be better imo. But a good ending did its bit and it feels nice I guess. People being happy is a good thing lol. Cheesy yes, but that point can be proven. I also think Yams should have nerfed the Rumbling so it would look less like plot armour for the alliance, and would also give a reason for Eren to go all out whilst the alliance can still win. But I guess then the effect of the Rumbling wouldn't be as big yeah that's a problem, Yams shot himself in the foot with the Rumbling one lol. Then you have a 12-page aftermath which doesn't leave room to clear up discrepancies. Sad but it is what it is. 5/10 Ending. 4 if I am feeling harsh lol. 9-10/10 Overall. AOT is a very good manga, for the most part, the ending doesn't hold well because of swift changes and sudden things happening for the sake of happily ever after. There were better ways to go around this but Yams didn't do that as so. This just doesn't feel like an AOT ending. Seems like no one can tho lmao. In any case. I will go and wait for the official to read again, but this was something I won't forget tbh. The whole manga I mean. Yes, left a bad taste in my mouth, but this was amazing stuff lol. Whatever the next hype is (hopefully CSM), I wish for something better. Was fun here tho. side note, not sure why Yams thought it was ok to send soldiers to their death due to monke, hell, many more died in awful ways too, but then conveniently this has a happily ever after. k then. ELLEN BECOMES DOVE (CRYING) keragamming said: Ok, so I have literally just finish reading the final chapter, I read the first page yesterday but found the dialogue to be cringy so I thought I need to wait for the official translation as I want to have a fair opinion on the final chapter. So I can now say with confidence that I wish this chapter was shorter and that the entire Armin and Eren conversation didn't happen at all, because that is where most of the bad dialogue and cringe came from, this completely destroyed Eren character, I didn't read much of the leaks so I didn't know it was That bad This was my expression during the Armin and Eren conversation. The first two pages alone almost put me out, I had to take a 2 minutes break after reading that. When Eren said that Ymir is in love with Karl Fritz, I was like "no Isayama its called stockholm syndrome!" And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king,🙄 when Eren starts talking about Mikasa being the one to free her. I literally roll my eyes.🙄 This page was so cringe! I had to take 5 minutes break and just shake my head, went to my fridge took out a drink and came back to my laptop, from there I just wanted it to hurry up and end, because I fear it will only get worse. And then that scene where Eren apparently leads the smiling titan towards his mom, I was thinking was this really necessary to include Isayama? How much more do you want to destroy Eren character? The second half of the chapter wasn't bad imo, I don't have a problem with happy ending in fact after what the character went through on a story narrative it can be argue that they deserve to have an happy ending, but at the same I can understand others that don't like this as the ending we got is predictable and generic but safe at the same time and I think a unconventional ending would make the series stand out more imo. Though I will admit I did feel some sadness by time I reach the end, regarding Eren death, and I guess it can be argue that Eren death makes it a bittersweet ending, but excluding that its basically a happy ending. Final thoughts, this chapter did more damage to the series overall. Isayama failed to answer some unanswered plot thread, while at the same time contradicting Eren character, I never had any idea that Eren had Fellings for Mikasa, Isayama himself in a an interview said that he find its weird that childhood friends could fall in love, not to mention Eren and Mikasa are basically brother and sister, so I find this development odd. Historia, all I will have to say is she became a wasted character since the timeskip and based off the set up from previous chapters I thought that it was setting Hsitroia and her pregnancy to have a big importance but in the end it came to nothing. Eren and Armin discussion felt like I was reading a fanfic and this just tell me that Isayama was burnt out and just wanted to hurry up and end the series, he even said it in the interviews. Overall, I will give this chapter..... a 3/5 or 2/5, I'm very conflicted on which one it should be. I have to give this series a 8/10, The journey was worth it, I had a blast reading this series and that will never change, but this ending will have a bittersweet taste whenever I think about it. Thank you Isayama for this 7 years of excitement and happiness this series has brought to me and many fans, but now its time to say goodbye. I probably wont be as active on mal anymore, I was already losing interest in this medium overall and really snk is what made me this active as I haven't completed that much anime last year. But I will never completely abandon the medium, but I definitely wont be as active anymore. keragamming said: Tsarko said: Man if it were only chapters 130 and 131. It's a lot more than that, his entire development throughout the whole story has been thrown out of the window. And it wasn't only Eren that was ruined... Agree, it's bullshit Eren had zero feelings for Mikasa in a romantic way, even Isayama if I remember correctly in a long time interview said that Eren doesn't see Mikasa in a romantic way because fans were shipping them. The final panel was literally not the final panel as he had promise another hint that he did modify the ending, the baby in that panel had bushy bro and unique nose, hint hint look at historian baby in the final chapter and compare it to the final panel tease in 2018. Chapter 130, Historia and Eren talk now makes absolutely no sense, what was the purpose of she asking him "what if I have a child" ? When Eren already said he was against her hearing a child and being a sacrifice? Historia character has been ruin as well and it basically serve no purpose since the timeskip, because the only way for Historia to have a big importance in this final arc even with having little screen time would have been if Eren was the father of her child. Shipping aside this makes more sense, I am still scratching my head that Eren supposedly likes Mikasa. His motivation is also ruined and makes no sense now, Isayama literally ruined his main character completely into this pathetic shell of himself. There is so much I could rant about but I will stop, I too believe he had change the ending from the 2018 ending he had in mind because this ending makes no sense. Honestly the more I think about it the more upset I get, I may need to avoid this sub forum because I don't want to reach the point where I may even drop the score any further. cchigu said: Neither was Chimera Ant arc ending non-cliche nor is this AoT ending non-cliche. Both were trying to evoke emotions using tricks that we have seen infinite times, but the execution of Chimera Ant arc's ending was well done and hence it is generally liked by everyone. On the other hand, AoT's ending was nonsensical and felt more like a parody of the series, or at least this is what the fans think. For me personally, I always had a feeling that it would all go crashing down and the ending would be your typical battle shonen ending. I mean, the franchise was as pretentious as Akame ga Kill since the beginning! MironBiron said: Of-course. Isayama just pussied out in the end. He wasn’t so confident about his original ending in the first place, and he probably isn’t self confident enough in general (keep in mind that he started AoT around the time that he was 20) to withstand pressure from Kodansha and EreMika shippers thus he blacked out in the end. It probably happened around Chapter 135, but Zeke’s words to Armin (So, Ymir ate you too...) point to a much different, more Ymir-focused ending than the one that we got. Chapter 137 is probably when he blacked out, threw away his original drafts in order to focus on this current ending. Eren’s original goal was to use The Rumbling in order to trigger an emotional reaction from Ymir strong enough to defy King Fritz’s will and lift up the Curse. The panels of Ymir freeing the pigs in Chapter 135 were there in order to make us familiar with Ymir’s desire to be free and witness the freedom of other living things, the same exact urges that ended up in her punishment. In order to make her disobey King Fritz’s will, Eren wanted to show Ymir a massacre so big that it would bring back her demolished sense of freedom; The emotions she had while freeing a bunch of King Fritz’s pigs (that would otherwise be killed and consumed as food) were building up to a perfect parallel of her freeing humanity of their suffering by lifting up the Curse. If we follow the lore of Attack on Titan, and listen to Pastor Nick’s words to Hanji at the beginning of the Clash of the Titans, we can conclude that Wall Titans are actually just mindless Titans who can move independently from The Founder so long there’s sunlight. Thus, the only way for The Rumbling to actually stop, would lie in Ymir Fritz’s desire to lift up the curse. And the only way to get her to that point would be to show her The Rumbling and trigger the same, wholesome urge she had 2000 years ago while freeing those pigs (her first and only time disobeying King Fritz). I don’t know the exact details of it because I’m not Isayama, but in the original ending, Eren had to go so far with his plan that he ended up killing his friends as well. My guess is that originally Armin sacrificed himself in order to trigger a sense of empathy from Ymir, his character was building up towards sacrifice heavily. Ymir’s account of Ramzi’s death played a big part too. Another big factor playing into the original ending, would be a deal made between Eren and Ymir, which would allow Ymir to become reborn as Eren and Historia’s child in a free world, with a dad who continued to push forward in order to seclude his goals, but at what cost? Valyrian1124 said: This is the final chapter of the manga. We have 40 pages to provide closure... and they spent half of it on exposition about "blah blah motives and how the power works". Total nonsense. *sigh* Oh look, it's the stupid Code Geass plan all over again! "I shall become a heniously evil mass murder, a villain, that everyone will unite to take down. Thus, when I die, there shall be a world of peace!" goodness gracious stop using this idiotic plan people. "80% of humanity was killed during the rumbling" goodness gracious fuck you "She waited 2000 years for someone to free her from the pain of love" what Are they really talking about "who is going to marry Mikasa" now of all times? "I wanted to turn the earth into a brand new land" dude, the weight of the colossal titans has hard packed the earth so much that it can never be tilled by plows! It would take explosives and heavy machinery to excavate and unpack and loosen the dirt! Nothing will grow outside of the 20% of the world that was untouched again. It will take hundreds to thousands of years for erosion to loosen the soil and allow life outside of the 20% zone to thrive again! What the fuck? "Thank you?" No! Fuck him! Well, it's nice that Connie and Jean lived. But the 8 year/12 year terminal curse being magicked away just like that... I dunno. Why is Mikasa walking away? The whole stretch of the Marleyan peninsula/continent towards Paradis is a barren wasteland without anything to eat, and any vehicles to cross the ocean to Paradis have been destroyed. She needs to stick with the group here at the Marleyan base and head further south to find another harbor, or to fix the plane. Final thoughts I don't know. Meh, I guess? I stand by my statement in 2017 that I feel that I began losing interest after chapter 100 when he went full blown mass murderer and the series became very nihilistic. I had overall liked the series up until that point. But everything after... also, once again Japan is back at it again with the victimization of evil. Mass murderers are never held to account for their deeds. The story has to bend over backwards about how "misunderstood" or how "noble" they really were and how tragic their life was. Really grates me. Adnash said: This ending would be good for a mediocre manga full of romance and unrequited love elements... except Shingeki no Kyojin was not like that. Seriously, what was that? I didn't expect a flawless last chapter answering all questions. There were too many of them to answer even most of them in just one chapter that was also the final chapter of the whole series. I did not care about ships like EreHisu or EreKasa or whatever they were called like. I didn't care about Yaegerist stuff and Eren being a mastermind that he never was and I never understood why he was treated like that by many fans, but whatever, everyone have their own taste after all. I didn't expect much. Just a decent ending, even a mediocre one, wrapping up the story. This ending was clearly below average. It was not a disaster like Alternative Universe ending, but it doesn't mean it was good. It was bad, only slightly better than two theories I found before as the worst ending theories (AU ending and time loop ending). The story was wrapped up in a very generally way, being "enriched" by weird lovey-dovey elements and naivety beyond comparision towards the political and social aspects of the plot that were so well presented in several previous arcs, reaching their peak during Marley arc and War for Paradis arc (until the Rumbling). It's a shame that such an awesome manga had to have ending like this... Bizarre ending reminding more of a meme ending of some sort than actual real conclusion of this story. If the ending was at least average, I wouldn't change my score for this manga from 10/10, since I appreciate the journey through all those chapters I was able experience. However I can't give that kind of score to something that has such a bad ending. How did I rate this single chapter? Well, if AU or time loop endings would be 1/5, and AnR ending would be 5/5, and Alliance (bittersweet) ending would be 3/5, this chapter deserved to be rated as 2/5. yes. i agree. idk how i am trolling tho??? |
Apr 13, 2021 11:37 PM
#1442
| SnK Chapter 139 Poll on snk subreddits Feel free to share https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdxRM4kV3vdlNuxSLp8fCzRMWBzVICmwoOoVd5Veu6gj8HtQg/viewform |
Apr 14, 2021 1:57 AM
#1443
NextUniverse said: Peeti said: CuteAssTiger said: op doesn't have a point is just trolling . So I'm done with this thread . Have a nice day NextUniverse said: So I got through most of the English scans. I have to say that this ending I disappointing, but I won't call this utter shit. Everything just seems to lose meaning very quickly, Eren going "incel" mode was a surprise too. He really didn't hold out his Lelouch phase well. For the sake of the story? Idk tbh. Then you have Mikasa suddenly becoming the centre of the story which was strange, she is useless as shit mind you lol. Previous chapters like 137 and 138 had their Deus ex Machina and random stuff happening with no proper explanation. I am just going to assume that Ymir is so based that Yams couldn't even write for her to do something he wanted. What I will point out with the good stuff in this chapter is that, well, tbf, AOT had a lot of simple messages, yes, it suddenly becomes pseudo deep. But it was clever of Yams to use a simple-minded character (Mikasa) as the answer to the deep questions. The "good" ending feels good really too. I can't say it was what I wanted. It would have hit harder if Jean, Connie, Gabi, and the rest died. From there something like Mikasa showing Eren's head to the Marleyans and using that as an example that "hate is now gone" would be better imo. But a good ending did its bit and it feels nice I guess. People being happy is a good thing lol. Cheesy yes, but that point can be proven. I also think Yams should have nerfed the Rumbling so it would look less like plot armour for the alliance, and would also give a reason for Eren to go all out whilst the alliance can still win. But I guess then the effect of the Rumbling wouldn't be as big yeah that's a problem, Yams shot himself in the foot with the Rumbling one lol. Then you have a 12-page aftermath which doesn't leave room to clear up discrepancies. Sad but it is what it is. 5/10 Ending. 4 if I am feeling harsh lol. 9-10/10 Overall. AOT is a very good manga, for the most part, the ending doesn't hold well because of swift changes and sudden things happening for the sake of happily ever after. There were better ways to go around this but Yams didn't do that as so. This just doesn't feel like an AOT ending. Seems like no one can tho lmao. In any case. I will go and wait for the official to read again, but this was something I won't forget tbh. The whole manga I mean. Yes, left a bad taste in my mouth, but this was amazing stuff lol. Whatever the next hype is (hopefully CSM), I wish for something better. Was fun here tho. side note, not sure why Yams thought it was ok to send soldiers to their death due to monke, hell, many more died in awful ways too, but then conveniently this has a happily ever after. k then. ELLEN BECOMES DOVE (CRYING) keragamming said: Ok, so I have literally just finish reading the final chapter, I read the first page yesterday but found the dialogue to be cringy so I thought I need to wait for the official translation as I want to have a fair opinion on the final chapter. So I can now say with confidence that I wish this chapter was shorter and that the entire Armin and Eren conversation didn't happen at all, because that is where most of the bad dialogue and cringe came from, this completely destroyed Eren character, I didn't read much of the leaks so I didn't know it was That bad This was my expression during the Armin and Eren conversation. The first two pages alone almost put me out, I had to take a 2 minutes break after reading that. When Eren said that Ymir is in love with Karl Fritz, I was like "no Isayama its called stockholm syndrome!" And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king,🙄 when Eren starts talking about Mikasa being the one to free her. I literally roll my eyes.🙄 This page was so cringe! I had to take 5 minutes break and just shake my head, went to my fridge took out a drink and came back to my laptop, from there I just wanted it to hurry up and end, because I fear it will only get worse. And then that scene where Eren apparently leads the smiling titan towards his mom, I was thinking was this really necessary to include Isayama? How much more do you want to destroy Eren character? The second half of the chapter wasn't bad imo, I don't have a problem with happy ending in fact after what the character went through on a story narrative it can be argue that they deserve to have an happy ending, but at the same I can understand others that don't like this as the ending we got is predictable and generic but safe at the same time and I think a unconventional ending would make the series stand out more imo. Though I will admit I did feel some sadness by time I reach the end, regarding Eren death, and I guess it can be argue that Eren death makes it a bittersweet ending, but excluding that its basically a happy ending. Final thoughts, this chapter did more damage to the series overall. Isayama failed to answer some unanswered plot thread, while at the same time contradicting Eren character, I never had any idea that Eren had Fellings for Mikasa, Isayama himself in a an interview said that he find its weird that childhood friends could fall in love, not to mention Eren and Mikasa are basically brother and sister, so I find this development odd. Historia, all I will have to say is she became a wasted character since the timeskip and based off the set up from previous chapters I thought that it was setting Hsitroia and her pregnancy to have a big importance but in the end it came to nothing. Eren and Armin discussion felt like I was reading a fanfic and this just tell me that Isayama was burnt out and just wanted to hurry up and end the series, he even said it in the interviews. Overall, I will give this chapter..... a 3/5 or 2/5, I'm very conflicted on which one it should be. I have to give this series a 8/10, The journey was worth it, I had a blast reading this series and that will never change, but this ending will have a bittersweet taste whenever I think about it. Thank you Isayama for this 7 years of excitement and happiness this series has brought to me and many fans, but now its time to say goodbye. I probably wont be as active on mal anymore, I was already losing interest in this medium overall and really snk is what made me this active as I haven't completed that much anime last year. But I will never completely abandon the medium, but I definitely wont be as active anymore. keragamming said: Tsarko said: Man if it were only chapters 130 and 131. It's a lot more than that, his entire development throughout the whole story has been thrown out of the window. And it wasn't only Eren that was ruined... Agree, it's bullshit Eren had zero feelings for Mikasa in a romantic way, even Isayama if I remember correctly in a long time interview said that Eren doesn't see Mikasa in a romantic way because fans were shipping them. The final panel was literally not the final panel as he had promise another hint that he did modify the ending, the baby in that panel had bushy bro and unique nose, hint hint look at historian baby in the final chapter and compare it to the final panel tease in 2018. Chapter 130, Historia and Eren talk now makes absolutely no sense, what was the purpose of she asking him "what if I have a child" ? When Eren already said he was against her hearing a child and being a sacrifice? Historia character has been ruin as well and it basically serve no purpose since the timeskip, because the only way for Historia to have a big importance in this final arc even with having little screen time would have been if Eren was the father of her child. Shipping aside this makes more sense, I am still scratching my head that Eren supposedly likes Mikasa. His motivation is also ruined and makes no sense now, Isayama literally ruined his main character completely into this pathetic shell of himself. There is so much I could rant about but I will stop, I too believe he had change the ending from the 2018 ending he had in mind because this ending makes no sense. Honestly the more I think about it the more upset I get, I may need to avoid this sub forum because I don't want to reach the point where I may even drop the score any further. cchigu said: Neither was Chimera Ant arc ending non-cliche nor is this AoT ending non-cliche. Both were trying to evoke emotions using tricks that we have seen infinite times, but the execution of Chimera Ant arc's ending was well done and hence it is generally liked by everyone. On the other hand, AoT's ending was nonsensical and felt more like a parody of the series, or at least this is what the fans think. For me personally, I always had a feeling that it would all go crashing down and the ending would be your typical battle shonen ending. I mean, the franchise was as pretentious as Akame ga Kill since the beginning! MironBiron said: Of-course. Isayama just pussied out in the end. He wasn’t so confident about his original ending in the first place, and he probably isn’t self confident enough in general (keep in mind that he started AoT around the time that he was 20) to withstand pressure from Kodansha and EreMika shippers thus he blacked out in the end. It probably happened around Chapter 135, but Zeke’s words to Armin (So, Ymir ate you too...) point to a much different, more Ymir-focused ending than the one that we got. Chapter 137 is probably when he blacked out, threw away his original drafts in order to focus on this current ending. Eren’s original goal was to use The Rumbling in order to trigger an emotional reaction from Ymir strong enough to defy King Fritz’s will and lift up the Curse. The panels of Ymir freeing the pigs in Chapter 135 were there in order to make us familiar with Ymir’s desire to be free and witness the freedom of other living things, the same exact urges that ended up in her punishment. In order to make her disobey King Fritz’s will, Eren wanted to show Ymir a massacre so big that it would bring back her demolished sense of freedom; The emotions she had while freeing a bunch of King Fritz’s pigs (that would otherwise be killed and consumed as food) were building up to a perfect parallel of her freeing humanity of their suffering by lifting up the Curse. If we follow the lore of Attack on Titan, and listen to Pastor Nick’s words to Hanji at the beginning of the Clash of the Titans, we can conclude that Wall Titans are actually just mindless Titans who can move independently from The Founder so long there’s sunlight. Thus, the only way for The Rumbling to actually stop, would lie in Ymir Fritz’s desire to lift up the curse. And the only way to get her to that point would be to show her The Rumbling and trigger the same, wholesome urge she had 2000 years ago while freeing those pigs (her first and only time disobeying King Fritz). I don’t know the exact details of it because I’m not Isayama, but in the original ending, Eren had to go so far with his plan that he ended up killing his friends as well. My guess is that originally Armin sacrificed himself in order to trigger a sense of empathy from Ymir, his character was building up towards sacrifice heavily. Ymir’s account of Ramzi’s death played a big part too. Another big factor playing into the original ending, would be a deal made between Eren and Ymir, which would allow Ymir to become reborn as Eren and Historia’s child in a free world, with a dad who continued to push forward in order to seclude his goals, but at what cost? Valyrian1124 said: This is the final chapter of the manga. We have 40 pages to provide closure... and they spent half of it on exposition about "blah blah motives and how the power works". Total nonsense. *sigh* Oh look, it's the stupid Code Geass plan all over again! "I shall become a heniously evil mass murder, a villain, that everyone will unite to take down. Thus, when I die, there shall be a world of peace!" goodness gracious stop using this idiotic plan people. "80% of humanity was killed during the rumbling" goodness gracious fuck you "She waited 2000 years for someone to free her from the pain of love" what Are they really talking about "who is going to marry Mikasa" now of all times? "I wanted to turn the earth into a brand new land" dude, the weight of the colossal titans has hard packed the earth so much that it can never be tilled by plows! It would take explosives and heavy machinery to excavate and unpack and loosen the dirt! Nothing will grow outside of the 20% of the world that was untouched again. It will take hundreds to thousands of years for erosion to loosen the soil and allow life outside of the 20% zone to thrive again! What the fuck? "Thank you?" No! Fuck him! Well, it's nice that Connie and Jean lived. But the 8 year/12 year terminal curse being magicked away just like that... I dunno. Why is Mikasa walking away? The whole stretch of the Marleyan peninsula/continent towards Paradis is a barren wasteland without anything to eat, and any vehicles to cross the ocean to Paradis have been destroyed. She needs to stick with the group here at the Marleyan base and head further south to find another harbor, or to fix the plane. Final thoughts I don't know. Meh, I guess? I stand by my statement in 2017 that I feel that I began losing interest after chapter 100 when he went full blown mass murderer and the series became very nihilistic. I had overall liked the series up until that point. But everything after... also, once again Japan is back at it again with the victimization of evil. Mass murderers are never held to account for their deeds. The story has to bend over backwards about how "misunderstood" or how "noble" they really were and how tragic their life was. Really grates me. Adnash said: This ending would be good for a mediocre manga full of romance and unrequited love elements... except Shingeki no Kyojin was not like that. Seriously, what was that? I didn't expect a flawless last chapter answering all questions. There were too many of them to answer even most of them in just one chapter that was also the final chapter of the whole series. I did not care about ships like EreHisu or EreKasa or whatever they were called like. I didn't care about Yaegerist stuff and Eren being a mastermind that he never was and I never understood why he was treated like that by many fans, but whatever, everyone have their own taste after all. I didn't expect much. Just a decent ending, even a mediocre one, wrapping up the story. This ending was clearly below average. It was not a disaster like Alternative Universe ending, but it doesn't mean it was good. It was bad, only slightly better than two theories I found before as the worst ending theories (AU ending and time loop ending). The story was wrapped up in a very generally way, being "enriched" by weird lovey-dovey elements and naivety beyond comparision towards the political and social aspects of the plot that were so well presented in several previous arcs, reaching their peak during Marley arc and War for Paradis arc (until the Rumbling). It's a shame that such an awesome manga had to have ending like this... Bizarre ending reminding more of a meme ending of some sort than actual real conclusion of this story. If the ending was at least average, I wouldn't change my score for this manga from 10/10, since I appreciate the journey through all those chapters I was able experience. However I can't give that kind of score to something that has such a bad ending. How did I rate this single chapter? Well, if AU or time loop endings would be 1/5, and AnR ending would be 5/5, and Alliance (bittersweet) ending would be 3/5, this chapter deserved to be rated as 2/5. yes. i agree. idk how i am trolling tho??? you arent trolling . Peeti made a thread in anime discussion wich was basically just a troll post and he now quoted my post from there. ( he is OP. its just confusing because he quotes that here .... for some ....reason .... ) basically he had a bunch of troll answers for a poll. and when asked about why he thought what he thought he had to ask other people to answer for him . so at that point it was pretty obvious that he is just trolling . the entire thing should also have been in aot manga discussion instead of the front page of mal where it would spoil people |
Apr 14, 2021 2:22 AM
#1444
Peeti said: CuteAssTiger said: Ok, so now it's time to get serious. I can't see a cute ass tiger make fun of me.op doesn't have a point is just trolling . So I'm done with this thread . Have a nice day NextUniverse said: So I got through most of the English scans. I have to say that this ending I disappointing, but I won't call this utter shit. Everything just seems to lose meaning very quickly, Eren going "incel" mode was a surprise too. He really didn't hold out his Lelouch phase well. For the sake of the story? Idk tbh. Then you have Mikasa suddenly becoming the centre of the story which was strange, she is useless as shit mind you lol. Previous chapters like 137 and 138 had their Deus ex Machina and random stuff happening with no proper explanation. I am just going to assume that Ymir is so based that Yams couldn't even write for her to do something he wanted. What I will point out with the good stuff in this chapter is that, well, tbf, AOT had a lot of simple messages, yes, it suddenly becomes pseudo deep. But it was clever of Yams to use a simple-minded character (Mikasa) as the answer to the deep questions. The "good" ending feels good really too. I can't say it was what I wanted. It would have hit harder if Jean, Connie, Gabi, and the rest died. From there something like Mikasa showing Eren's head to the Marleyans and using that as an example that "hate is now gone" would be better imo. But a good ending did its bit and it feels nice I guess. People being happy is a good thing lol. Cheesy yes, but that point can be proven. I also think Yams should have nerfed the Rumbling so it would look less like plot armour for the alliance, and would also give a reason for Eren to go all out whilst the alliance can still win. But I guess then the effect of the Rumbling wouldn't be as big yeah that's a problem, Yams shot himself in the foot with the Rumbling one lol. Then you have a 12-page aftermath which doesn't leave room to clear up discrepancies. Sad but it is what it is. 5/10 Ending. 4 if I am feeling harsh lol. 9-10/10 Overall. AOT is a very good manga, for the most part, the ending doesn't hold well because of swift changes and sudden things happening for the sake of happily ever after. There were better ways to go around this but Yams didn't do that as so. This just doesn't feel like an AOT ending. Seems like no one can tho lmao. In any case. I will go and wait for the official to read again, but this was something I won't forget tbh. The whole manga I mean. Yes, left a bad taste in my mouth, but this was amazing stuff lol. Whatever the next hype is (hopefully CSM), I wish for something better. Was fun here tho. side note, not sure why Yams thought it was ok to send soldiers to their death due to monke, hell, many more died in awful ways too, but then conveniently this has a happily ever after. k then. ELLEN BECOMES DOVE (CRYING) keragamming said: Ok, so I have literally just finish reading the final chapter, I read the first page yesterday but found the dialogue to be cringy so I thought I need to wait for the official translation as I want to have a fair opinion on the final chapter. So I can now say with confidence that I wish this chapter was shorter and that the entire Armin and Eren conversation didn't happen at all, because that is where most of the bad dialogue and cringe came from, this completely destroyed Eren character, I didn't read much of the leaks so I didn't know it was That bad This was my expression during the Armin and Eren conversation. The first two pages alone almost put me out, I had to take a 2 minutes break after reading that. When Eren said that Ymir is in love with Karl Fritz, I was like "no Isayama its called stockholm syndrome!" And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king,🙄 when Eren starts talking about Mikasa being the one to free her. I literally roll my eyes.🙄 This page was so cringe! I had to take 5 minutes break and just shake my head, went to my fridge took out a drink and came back to my laptop, from there I just wanted it to hurry up and end, because I fear it will only get worse. And then that scene where Eren apparently leads the smiling titan towards his mom, I was thinking was this really necessary to include Isayama? How much more do you want to destroy Eren character? The second half of the chapter wasn't bad imo, I don't have a problem with happy ending in fact after what the character went through on a story narrative it can be argue that they deserve to have an happy ending, but at the same I can understand others that don't like this as the ending we got is predictable and generic but safe at the same time and I think a unconventional ending would make the series stand out more imo. Though I will admit I did feel some sadness by time I reach the end, regarding Eren death, and I guess it can be argue that Eren death makes it a bittersweet ending, but excluding that its basically a happy ending. Final thoughts, this chapter did more damage to the series overall. Isayama failed to answer some unanswered plot thread, while at the same time contradicting Eren character, I never had any idea that Eren had Fellings for Mikasa, Isayama himself in a an interview said that he find its weird that childhood friends could fall in love, not to mention Eren and Mikasa are basically brother and sister, so I find this development odd. Historia, all I will have to say is she became a wasted character since the timeskip and based off the set up from previous chapters I thought that it was setting Hsitroia and her pregnancy to have a big importance but in the end it came to nothing. Eren and Armin discussion felt like I was reading a fanfic and this just tell me that Isayama was burnt out and just wanted to hurry up and end the series, he even said it in the interviews. Overall, I will give this chapter..... a 3/5 or 2/5, I'm very conflicted on which one it should be. I have to give this series a 8/10, The journey was worth it, I had a blast reading this series and that will never change, but this ending will have a bittersweet taste whenever I think about it. Thank you Isayama for this 7 years of excitement and happiness this series has brought to me and many fans, but now its time to say goodbye. I probably wont be as active on mal anymore, I was already losing interest in this medium overall and really snk is what made me this active as I haven't completed that much anime last year. But I will never completely abandon the medium, but I definitely wont be as active anymore. keragamming said: Tsarko said: Man if it were only chapters 130 and 131. It's a lot more than that, his entire development throughout the whole story has been thrown out of the window. And it wasn't only Eren that was ruined... Agree, it's bullshit Eren had zero feelings for Mikasa in a romantic way, even Isayama if I remember correctly in a long time interview said that Eren doesn't see Mikasa in a romantic way because fans were shipping them. The final panel was literally not the final panel as he had promise another hint that he did modify the ending, the baby in that panel had bushy bro and unique nose, hint hint look at historian baby in the final chapter and compare it to the final panel tease in 2018. Chapter 130, Historia and Eren talk now makes absolutely no sense, what was the purpose of she asking him "what if I have a child" ? When Eren already said he was against her hearing a child and being a sacrifice? Historia character has been ruin as well and it basically serve no purpose since the timeskip, because the only way for Historia to have a big importance in this final arc even with having little screen time would have been if Eren was the father of her child. Shipping aside this makes more sense, I am still scratching my head that Eren supposedly likes Mikasa. His motivation is also ruined and makes no sense now, Isayama literally ruined his main character completely into this pathetic shell of himself. There is so much I could rant about but I will stop, I too believe he had change the ending from the 2018 ending he had in mind because this ending makes no sense. Honestly the more I think about it the more upset I get, I may need to avoid this sub forum because I don't want to reach the point where I may even drop the score any further. cchigu said: Neither was Chimera Ant arc ending non-cliche nor is this AoT ending non-cliche. Both were trying to evoke emotions using tricks that we have seen infinite times, but the execution of Chimera Ant arc's ending was well done and hence it is generally liked by everyone. On the other hand, AoT's ending was nonsensical and felt more like a parody of the series, or at least this is what the fans think. For me personally, I always had a feeling that it would all go crashing down and the ending would be your typical battle shonen ending. I mean, the franchise was as pretentious as Akame ga Kill since the beginning! MironBiron said: Of-course. Isayama just pussied out in the end. He wasn’t so confident about his original ending in the first place, and he probably isn’t self confident enough in general (keep in mind that he started AoT around the time that he was 20) to withstand pressure from Kodansha and EreMika shippers thus he blacked out in the end. It probably happened around Chapter 135, but Zeke’s words to Armin (So, Ymir ate you too...) point to a much different, more Ymir-focused ending than the one that we got. Chapter 137 is probably when he blacked out, threw away his original drafts in order to focus on this current ending. Eren’s original goal was to use The Rumbling in order to trigger an emotional reaction from Ymir strong enough to defy King Fritz’s will and lift up the Curse. The panels of Ymir freeing the pigs in Chapter 135 were there in order to make us familiar with Ymir’s desire to be free and witness the freedom of other living things, the same exact urges that ended up in her punishment. In order to make her disobey King Fritz’s will, Eren wanted to show Ymir a massacre so big that it would bring back her demolished sense of freedom; The emotions she had while freeing a bunch of King Fritz’s pigs (that would otherwise be killed and consumed as food) were building up to a perfect parallel of her freeing humanity of their suffering by lifting up the Curse. If we follow the lore of Attack on Titan, and listen to Pastor Nick’s words to Hanji at the beginning of the Clash of the Titans, we can conclude that Wall Titans are actually just mindless Titans who can move independently from The Founder so long there’s sunlight. Thus, the only way for The Rumbling to actually stop, would lie in Ymir Fritz’s desire to lift up the curse. And the only way to get her to that point would be to show her The Rumbling and trigger the same, wholesome urge she had 2000 years ago while freeing those pigs (her first and only time disobeying King Fritz). I don’t know the exact details of it because I’m not Isayama, but in the original ending, Eren had to go so far with his plan that he ended up killing his friends as well. My guess is that originally Armin sacrificed himself in order to trigger a sense of empathy from Ymir, his character was building up towards sacrifice heavily. Ymir’s account of Ramzi’s death played a big part too. Another big factor playing into the original ending, would be a deal made between Eren and Ymir, which would allow Ymir to become reborn as Eren and Historia’s child in a free world, with a dad who continued to push forward in order to seclude his goals, but at what cost? Valyrian1124 said: This is the final chapter of the manga. We have 40 pages to provide closure... and they spent half of it on exposition about "blah blah motives and how the power works". Total nonsense. *sigh* Oh look, it's the stupid Code Geass plan all over again! "I shall become a heniously evil mass murder, a villain, that everyone will unite to take down. Thus, when I die, there shall be a world of peace!" goodness gracious stop using this idiotic plan people. "80% of humanity was killed during the rumbling" goodness gracious fuck you "She waited 2000 years for someone to free her from the pain of love" what Are they really talking about "who is going to marry Mikasa" now of all times? "I wanted to turn the earth into a brand new land" dude, the weight of the colossal titans has hard packed the earth so much that it can never be tilled by plows! It would take explosives and heavy machinery to excavate and unpack and loosen the dirt! Nothing will grow outside of the 20% of the world that was untouched again. It will take hundreds to thousands of years for erosion to loosen the soil and allow life outside of the 20% zone to thrive again! What the fuck? "Thank you?" No! Fuck him! Well, it's nice that Connie and Jean lived. But the 8 year/12 year terminal curse being magicked away just like that... I dunno. Why is Mikasa walking away? The whole stretch of the Marleyan peninsula/continent towards Paradis is a barren wasteland without anything to eat, and any vehicles to cross the ocean to Paradis have been destroyed. She needs to stick with the group here at the Marleyan base and head further south to find another harbor, or to fix the plane. Final thoughts I don't know. Meh, I guess? I stand by my statement in 2017 that I feel that I began losing interest after chapter 100 when he went full blown mass murderer and the series became very nihilistic. I had overall liked the series up until that point. But everything after... also, once again Japan is back at it again with the victimization of evil. Mass murderers are never held to account for their deeds. The story has to bend over backwards about how "misunderstood" or how "noble" they really were and how tragic their life was. Really grates me. Adnash said: This ending would be good for a mediocre manga full of romance and unrequited love elements... except Shingeki no Kyojin was not like that. Seriously, what was that? I didn't expect a flawless last chapter answering all questions. There were too many of them to answer even most of them in just one chapter that was also the final chapter of the whole series. I did not care about ships like EreHisu or EreKasa or whatever they were called like. I didn't care about Yaegerist stuff and Eren being a mastermind that he never was and I never understood why he was treated like that by many fans, but whatever, everyone have their own taste after all. I didn't expect much. Just a decent ending, even a mediocre one, wrapping up the story. This ending was clearly below average. It was not a disaster like Alternative Universe ending, but it doesn't mean it was good. It was bad, only slightly better than two theories I found before as the worst ending theories (AU ending and time loop ending). The story was wrapped up in a very generally way, being "enriched" by weird lovey-dovey elements and naivety beyond comparision towards the political and social aspects of the plot that were so well presented in several previous arcs, reaching their peak during Marley arc and War for Paradis arc (until the Rumbling). It's a shame that such an awesome manga had to have ending like this... Bizarre ending reminding more of a meme ending of some sort than actual real conclusion of this story. If the ending was at least average, I wouldn't change my score for this manga from 10/10, since I appreciate the journey through all those chapters I was able experience. However I can't give that kind of score to something that has such a bad ending. How did I rate this single chapter? Well, if AU or time loop endings would be 1/5, and AnR ending would be 5/5, and Alliance (bittersweet) ending would be 3/5, this chapter deserved to be rated as 2/5. so after being asked why you have a certain opinion and getting no answer from the people that were supposed to tell you why you think what you think you collect posts from other people here. geez . honestly how are people supposed to talk . how is your opinion less put together then humpty dumpty ? anyways nextuniverse quote: - says it isn't utter trash -aot didn't suddenly become pseudo deep. it has always been a war analogy and fairy deep as soon as this came to shiny trough -not having more parallels between mikasa and ymir is unfortunate but doesn't ruin the story tbh ( not that he was implying that . its weird that you even quote him ) keragamming quote: - lots of calling things bad and / or cringe - not a lot of why that would be the case. - yes ymir has Stockholm syndom . so ? -"And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king" - yeah lets just select one aspect that we don't like without it actually being a flaw and "turn off" our brains so we can just rant about everything that follows without even caring about whenever or not its actually fair critique actually I should not have started that reply. you had plenty time and opportunity to form an actual real opinion but its clear that you don't have one and you are just grasping for a point someone else might have made at some point you cant see that a cute ass tiger makes fun of you I cant see how anyone could not at least chuckle at this. i dont want to beat a dead horse and i also dont see any point entertain a discussion with someone who has neither a real opinion nor read what the discussion itself is about. while also dodging multiple times the direct question what exactly about aot actually hurt you this much . look whatever trauma ,you dont even want to talk about , with aot i hope you can get over it . have a nice day |
Apr 14, 2021 3:02 AM
#1445
CuteAssTiger said: I think you really can't read. Nothing about AOT hurt me. Otherwise it would be at low ratings. It floats from score of 5 to 7 in all seasons and manga on my list. Even my threads of AOT float from negativity to positivity. So, obviously I can't answer the question of why it's so bad because it isn't bad for me. Well, if now it's clear then I will say that you only nitpick good things of Nextuniverse and called every other user pointless. I think you are the one ignoring because you can't read all the users criticism because it's very crystal clear that fans or haters both hated the ending. The ones I tagged were already tired of being a critic so yeah, I failed to gather them as they have already criticized the ending a dozen of times.Peeti said: CuteAssTiger said: op doesn't have a point is just trolling . So I'm done with this thread . Have a nice day NextUniverse said: So I got through most of the English scans. I have to say that this ending I disappointing, but I won't call this utter shit. Everything just seems to lose meaning very quickly, Eren going "incel" mode was a surprise too. He really didn't hold out his Lelouch phase well. For the sake of the story? Idk tbh. Then you have Mikasa suddenly becoming the centre of the story which was strange, she is useless as shit mind you lol. Previous chapters like 137 and 138 had their Deus ex Machina and random stuff happening with no proper explanation. I am just going to assume that Ymir is so based that Yams couldn't even write for her to do something he wanted. What I will point out with the good stuff in this chapter is that, well, tbf, AOT had a lot of simple messages, yes, it suddenly becomes pseudo deep. But it was clever of Yams to use a simple-minded character (Mikasa) as the answer to the deep questions. The "good" ending feels good really too. I can't say it was what I wanted. It would have hit harder if Jean, Connie, Gabi, and the rest died. From there something like Mikasa showing Eren's head to the Marleyans and using that as an example that "hate is now gone" would be better imo. But a good ending did its bit and it feels nice I guess. People being happy is a good thing lol. Cheesy yes, but that point can be proven. I also think Yams should have nerfed the Rumbling so it would look less like plot armour for the alliance, and would also give a reason for Eren to go all out whilst the alliance can still win. But I guess then the effect of the Rumbling wouldn't be as big yeah that's a problem, Yams shot himself in the foot with the Rumbling one lol. Then you have a 12-page aftermath which doesn't leave room to clear up discrepancies. Sad but it is what it is. 5/10 Ending. 4 if I am feeling harsh lol. 9-10/10 Overall. AOT is a very good manga, for the most part, the ending doesn't hold well because of swift changes and sudden things happening for the sake of happily ever after. There were better ways to go around this but Yams didn't do that as so. This just doesn't feel like an AOT ending. Seems like no one can tho lmao. In any case. I will go and wait for the official to read again, but this was something I won't forget tbh. The whole manga I mean. Yes, left a bad taste in my mouth, but this was amazing stuff lol. Whatever the next hype is (hopefully CSM), I wish for something better. Was fun here tho. side note, not sure why Yams thought it was ok to send soldiers to their death due to monke, hell, many more died in awful ways too, but then conveniently this has a happily ever after. k then. ELLEN BECOMES DOVE (CRYING) keragamming said: Ok, so I have literally just finish reading the final chapter, I read the first page yesterday but found the dialogue to be cringy so I thought I need to wait for the official translation as I want to have a fair opinion on the final chapter. So I can now say with confidence that I wish this chapter was shorter and that the entire Armin and Eren conversation didn't happen at all, because that is where most of the bad dialogue and cringe came from, this completely destroyed Eren character, I didn't read much of the leaks so I didn't know it was That bad This was my expression during the Armin and Eren conversation. The first two pages alone almost put me out, I had to take a 2 minutes break after reading that. When Eren said that Ymir is in love with Karl Fritz, I was like "no Isayama its called stockholm syndrome!" And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king,🙄 when Eren starts talking about Mikasa being the one to free her. I literally roll my eyes.🙄 This page was so cringe! I had to take 5 minutes break and just shake my head, went to my fridge took out a drink and came back to my laptop, from there I just wanted it to hurry up and end, because I fear it will only get worse. And then that scene where Eren apparently leads the smiling titan towards his mom, I was thinking was this really necessary to include Isayama? How much more do you want to destroy Eren character? The second half of the chapter wasn't bad imo, I don't have a problem with happy ending in fact after what the character went through on a story narrative it can be argue that they deserve to have an happy ending, but at the same I can understand others that don't like this as the ending we got is predictable and generic but safe at the same time and I think a unconventional ending would make the series stand out more imo. Though I will admit I did feel some sadness by time I reach the end, regarding Eren death, and I guess it can be argue that Eren death makes it a bittersweet ending, but excluding that its basically a happy ending. Final thoughts, this chapter did more damage to the series overall. Isayama failed to answer some unanswered plot thread, while at the same time contradicting Eren character, I never had any idea that Eren had Fellings for Mikasa, Isayama himself in a an interview said that he find its weird that childhood friends could fall in love, not to mention Eren and Mikasa are basically brother and sister, so I find this development odd. Historia, all I will have to say is she became a wasted character since the timeskip and based off the set up from previous chapters I thought that it was setting Hsitroia and her pregnancy to have a big importance but in the end it came to nothing. Eren and Armin discussion felt like I was reading a fanfic and this just tell me that Isayama was burnt out and just wanted to hurry up and end the series, he even said it in the interviews. Overall, I will give this chapter..... a 3/5 or 2/5, I'm very conflicted on which one it should be. I have to give this series a 8/10, The journey was worth it, I had a blast reading this series and that will never change, but this ending will have a bittersweet taste whenever I think about it. Thank you Isayama for this 7 years of excitement and happiness this series has brought to me and many fans, but now its time to say goodbye. I probably wont be as active on mal anymore, I was already losing interest in this medium overall and really snk is what made me this active as I haven't completed that much anime last year. But I will never completely abandon the medium, but I definitely wont be as active anymore. keragamming said: Tsarko said: Man if it were only chapters 130 and 131. It's a lot more than that, his entire development throughout the whole story has been thrown out of the window. And it wasn't only Eren that was ruined... Agree, it's bullshit Eren had zero feelings for Mikasa in a romantic way, even Isayama if I remember correctly in a long time interview said that Eren doesn't see Mikasa in a romantic way because fans were shipping them. The final panel was literally not the final panel as he had promise another hint that he did modify the ending, the baby in that panel had bushy bro and unique nose, hint hint look at historian baby in the final chapter and compare it to the final panel tease in 2018. Chapter 130, Historia and Eren talk now makes absolutely no sense, what was the purpose of she asking him "what if I have a child" ? When Eren already said he was against her hearing a child and being a sacrifice? Historia character has been ruin as well and it basically serve no purpose since the timeskip, because the only way for Historia to have a big importance in this final arc even with having little screen time would have been if Eren was the father of her child. Shipping aside this makes more sense, I am still scratching my head that Eren supposedly likes Mikasa. His motivation is also ruined and makes no sense now, Isayama literally ruined his main character completely into this pathetic shell of himself. There is so much I could rant about but I will stop, I too believe he had change the ending from the 2018 ending he had in mind because this ending makes no sense. Honestly the more I think about it the more upset I get, I may need to avoid this sub forum because I don't want to reach the point where I may even drop the score any further. cchigu said: Neither was Chimera Ant arc ending non-cliche nor is this AoT ending non-cliche. Both were trying to evoke emotions using tricks that we have seen infinite times, but the execution of Chimera Ant arc's ending was well done and hence it is generally liked by everyone. On the other hand, AoT's ending was nonsensical and felt more like a parody of the series, or at least this is what the fans think. For me personally, I always had a feeling that it would all go crashing down and the ending would be your typical battle shonen ending. I mean, the franchise was as pretentious as Akame ga Kill since the beginning! MironBiron said: Of-course. Isayama just pussied out in the end. He wasn’t so confident about his original ending in the first place, and he probably isn’t self confident enough in general (keep in mind that he started AoT around the time that he was 20) to withstand pressure from Kodansha and EreMika shippers thus he blacked out in the end. It probably happened around Chapter 135, but Zeke’s words to Armin (So, Ymir ate you too...) point to a much different, more Ymir-focused ending than the one that we got. Chapter 137 is probably when he blacked out, threw away his original drafts in order to focus on this current ending. Eren’s original goal was to use The Rumbling in order to trigger an emotional reaction from Ymir strong enough to defy King Fritz’s will and lift up the Curse. The panels of Ymir freeing the pigs in Chapter 135 were there in order to make us familiar with Ymir’s desire to be free and witness the freedom of other living things, the same exact urges that ended up in her punishment. In order to make her disobey King Fritz’s will, Eren wanted to show Ymir a massacre so big that it would bring back her demolished sense of freedom; The emotions she had while freeing a bunch of King Fritz’s pigs (that would otherwise be killed and consumed as food) were building up to a perfect parallel of her freeing humanity of their suffering by lifting up the Curse. If we follow the lore of Attack on Titan, and listen to Pastor Nick’s words to Hanji at the beginning of the Clash of the Titans, we can conclude that Wall Titans are actually just mindless Titans who can move independently from The Founder so long there’s sunlight. Thus, the only way for The Rumbling to actually stop, would lie in Ymir Fritz’s desire to lift up the curse. And the only way to get her to that point would be to show her The Rumbling and trigger the same, wholesome urge she had 2000 years ago while freeing those pigs (her first and only time disobeying King Fritz). I don’t know the exact details of it because I’m not Isayama, but in the original ending, Eren had to go so far with his plan that he ended up killing his friends as well. My guess is that originally Armin sacrificed himself in order to trigger a sense of empathy from Ymir, his character was building up towards sacrifice heavily. Ymir’s account of Ramzi’s death played a big part too. Another big factor playing into the original ending, would be a deal made between Eren and Ymir, which would allow Ymir to become reborn as Eren and Historia’s child in a free world, with a dad who continued to push forward in order to seclude his goals, but at what cost? Valyrian1124 said: This is the final chapter of the manga. We have 40 pages to provide closure... and they spent half of it on exposition about "blah blah motives and how the power works". Total nonsense. *sigh* Oh look, it's the stupid Code Geass plan all over again! "I shall become a heniously evil mass murder, a villain, that everyone will unite to take down. Thus, when I die, there shall be a world of peace!" goodness gracious stop using this idiotic plan people. "80% of humanity was killed during the rumbling" goodness gracious fuck you "She waited 2000 years for someone to free her from the pain of love" what Are they really talking about "who is going to marry Mikasa" now of all times? "I wanted to turn the earth into a brand new land" dude, the weight of the colossal titans has hard packed the earth so much that it can never be tilled by plows! It would take explosives and heavy machinery to excavate and unpack and loosen the dirt! Nothing will grow outside of the 20% of the world that was untouched again. It will take hundreds to thousands of years for erosion to loosen the soil and allow life outside of the 20% zone to thrive again! What the fuck? "Thank you?" No! Fuck him! Well, it's nice that Connie and Jean lived. But the 8 year/12 year terminal curse being magicked away just like that... I dunno. Why is Mikasa walking away? The whole stretch of the Marleyan peninsula/continent towards Paradis is a barren wasteland without anything to eat, and any vehicles to cross the ocean to Paradis have been destroyed. She needs to stick with the group here at the Marleyan base and head further south to find another harbor, or to fix the plane. Final thoughts I don't know. Meh, I guess? I stand by my statement in 2017 that I feel that I began losing interest after chapter 100 when he went full blown mass murderer and the series became very nihilistic. I had overall liked the series up until that point. But everything after... also, once again Japan is back at it again with the victimization of evil. Mass murderers are never held to account for their deeds. The story has to bend over backwards about how "misunderstood" or how "noble" they really were and how tragic their life was. Really grates me. Adnash said: This ending would be good for a mediocre manga full of romance and unrequited love elements... except Shingeki no Kyojin was not like that. Seriously, what was that? I didn't expect a flawless last chapter answering all questions. There were too many of them to answer even most of them in just one chapter that was also the final chapter of the whole series. I did not care about ships like EreHisu or EreKasa or whatever they were called like. I didn't care about Yaegerist stuff and Eren being a mastermind that he never was and I never understood why he was treated like that by many fans, but whatever, everyone have their own taste after all. I didn't expect much. Just a decent ending, even a mediocre one, wrapping up the story. This ending was clearly below average. It was not a disaster like Alternative Universe ending, but it doesn't mean it was good. It was bad, only slightly better than two theories I found before as the worst ending theories (AU ending and time loop ending). The story was wrapped up in a very generally way, being "enriched" by weird lovey-dovey elements and naivety beyond comparision towards the political and social aspects of the plot that were so well presented in several previous arcs, reaching their peak during Marley arc and War for Paradis arc (until the Rumbling). It's a shame that such an awesome manga had to have ending like this... Bizarre ending reminding more of a meme ending of some sort than actual real conclusion of this story. If the ending was at least average, I wouldn't change my score for this manga from 10/10, since I appreciate the journey through all those chapters I was able experience. However I can't give that kind of score to something that has such a bad ending. How did I rate this single chapter? Well, if AU or time loop endings would be 1/5, and AnR ending would be 5/5, and Alliance (bittersweet) ending would be 3/5, this chapter deserved to be rated as 2/5. so after being asked why you have a certain opinion and getting no answer from the people that were supposed to tell you why you think what you think you collect posts from other people here. geez . honestly how are people supposed to talk . how is your opinion less put together then humpty dumpty ? anyways nextuniverse quote: - says it isn't utter trash -aot didn't suddenly become pseudo deep. it has always been a war analogy and fairy deep as soon as this came to shiny trough -not having more parallels between mikasa and ymir is unfortunate but doesn't ruin the story tbh ( not that he was implying that . its weird that you even quote him ) keragamming quote: - lots of calling things bad and / or cringe - not a lot of why that would be the case. - yes ymir has Stockholm syndom . so ? -"And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king" - yeah lets just select one aspect that we don't like without it actually being a flaw and "turn off" our brains so we can just rant about everything that follows without even caring about whenever or not its actually fair critique actually I should not have started that reply. you had plenty time and opportunity to form an actual real opinion but its clear that you don't have one and you are just grasping for a point someone else might have made at some point you cant see that a cute ass tiger makes fun of you I cant see how anyone could not at least chuckle at this. i dont want to beat a dead horse and i also dont see any point entertain a discussion with someone who has neither a real opinion nor read what the discussion itself is about. while also dodging multiple times the direct question what exactly about aot actually hurt you this much . look whatever trauma ,you dont even want to talk about , with aot i hope you can get over it . have a nice day |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
Apr 14, 2021 3:07 AM
#1446
CuteAssTiger said: That was the point of this line. To chuckle you and my fellow MAL users. I am also surprised that how they didn't chuckle but you did. I am half happy now.Peeti said: CuteAssTiger said: op doesn't have a point is just trolling . So I'm done with this thread . Have a nice day NextUniverse said: So I got through most of the English scans. I have to say that this ending I disappointing, but I won't call this utter shit. Everything just seems to lose meaning very quickly, Eren going "incel" mode was a surprise too. He really didn't hold out his Lelouch phase well. For the sake of the story? Idk tbh. Then you have Mikasa suddenly becoming the centre of the story which was strange, she is useless as shit mind you lol. Previous chapters like 137 and 138 had their Deus ex Machina and random stuff happening with no proper explanation. I am just going to assume that Ymir is so based that Yams couldn't even write for her to do something he wanted. What I will point out with the good stuff in this chapter is that, well, tbf, AOT had a lot of simple messages, yes, it suddenly becomes pseudo deep. But it was clever of Yams to use a simple-minded character (Mikasa) as the answer to the deep questions. The "good" ending feels good really too. I can't say it was what I wanted. It would have hit harder if Jean, Connie, Gabi, and the rest died. From there something like Mikasa showing Eren's head to the Marleyans and using that as an example that "hate is now gone" would be better imo. But a good ending did its bit and it feels nice I guess. People being happy is a good thing lol. Cheesy yes, but that point can be proven. I also think Yams should have nerfed the Rumbling so it would look less like plot armour for the alliance, and would also give a reason for Eren to go all out whilst the alliance can still win. But I guess then the effect of the Rumbling wouldn't be as big yeah that's a problem, Yams shot himself in the foot with the Rumbling one lol. Then you have a 12-page aftermath which doesn't leave room to clear up discrepancies. Sad but it is what it is. 5/10 Ending. 4 if I am feeling harsh lol. 9-10/10 Overall. AOT is a very good manga, for the most part, the ending doesn't hold well because of swift changes and sudden things happening for the sake of happily ever after. There were better ways to go around this but Yams didn't do that as so. This just doesn't feel like an AOT ending. Seems like no one can tho lmao. In any case. I will go and wait for the official to read again, but this was something I won't forget tbh. The whole manga I mean. Yes, left a bad taste in my mouth, but this was amazing stuff lol. Whatever the next hype is (hopefully CSM), I wish for something better. Was fun here tho. side note, not sure why Yams thought it was ok to send soldiers to their death due to monke, hell, many more died in awful ways too, but then conveniently this has a happily ever after. k then. ELLEN BECOMES DOVE (CRYING) keragamming said: Ok, so I have literally just finish reading the final chapter, I read the first page yesterday but found the dialogue to be cringy so I thought I need to wait for the official translation as I want to have a fair opinion on the final chapter. So I can now say with confidence that I wish this chapter was shorter and that the entire Armin and Eren conversation didn't happen at all, because that is where most of the bad dialogue and cringe came from, this completely destroyed Eren character, I didn't read much of the leaks so I didn't know it was That bad This was my expression during the Armin and Eren conversation. The first two pages alone almost put me out, I had to take a 2 minutes break after reading that. When Eren said that Ymir is in love with Karl Fritz, I was like "no Isayama its called stockholm syndrome!" And from there I turn off my brain because I knew what comes after won't make any sense since it's going to be connected by Ymir love for the king,🙄 when Eren starts talking about Mikasa being the one to free her. I literally roll my eyes.🙄 This page was so cringe! I had to take 5 minutes break and just shake my head, went to my fridge took out a drink and came back to my laptop, from there I just wanted it to hurry up and end, because I fear it will only get worse. And then that scene where Eren apparently leads the smiling titan towards his mom, I was thinking was this really necessary to include Isayama? How much more do you want to destroy Eren character? The second half of the chapter wasn't bad imo, I don't have a problem with happy ending in fact after what the character went through on a story narrative it can be argue that they deserve to have an happy ending, but at the same I can understand others that don't like this as the ending we got is predictable and generic but safe at the same time and I think a unconventional ending would make the series stand out more imo. Though I will admit I did feel some sadness by time I reach the end, regarding Eren death, and I guess it can be argue that Eren death makes it a bittersweet ending, but excluding that its basically a happy ending. Final thoughts, this chapter did more damage to the series overall. Isayama failed to answer some unanswered plot thread, while at the same time contradicting Eren character, I never had any idea that Eren had Fellings for Mikasa, Isayama himself in a an interview said that he find its weird that childhood friends could fall in love, not to mention Eren and Mikasa are basically brother and sister, so I find this development odd. Historia, all I will have to say is she became a wasted character since the timeskip and based off the set up from previous chapters I thought that it was setting Hsitroia and her pregnancy to have a big importance but in the end it came to nothing. Eren and Armin discussion felt like I was reading a fanfic and this just tell me that Isayama was burnt out and just wanted to hurry up and end the series, he even said it in the interviews. Overall, I will give this chapter..... a 3/5 or 2/5, I'm very conflicted on which one it should be. I have to give this series a 8/10, The journey was worth it, I had a blast reading this series and that will never change, but this ending will have a bittersweet taste whenever I think about it. Thank you Isayama for this 7 years of excitement and happiness this series has brought to me and many fans, but now its time to say goodbye. I probably wont be as active on mal anymore, I was already losing interest in this medium overall and really snk is what made me this active as I haven't completed that much anime last year. But I will never completely abandon the medium, but I definitely wont be as active anymore. keragamming said: Tsarko said: Man if it were only chapters 130 and 131. It's a lot more than that, his entire development throughout the whole story has been thrown out of the window. And it wasn't only Eren that was ruined... Agree, it's bullshit Eren had zero feelings for Mikasa in a romantic way, even Isayama if I remember correctly in a long time interview said that Eren doesn't see Mikasa in a romantic way because fans were shipping them. The final panel was literally not the final panel as he had promise another hint that he did modify the ending, the baby in that panel had bushy bro and unique nose, hint hint look at historian baby in the final chapter and compare it to the final panel tease in 2018. Chapter 130, Historia and Eren talk now makes absolutely no sense, what was the purpose of she asking him "what if I have a child" ? When Eren already said he was against her hearing a child and being a sacrifice? Historia character has been ruin as well and it basically serve no purpose since the timeskip, because the only way for Historia to have a big importance in this final arc even with having little screen time would have been if Eren was the father of her child. Shipping aside this makes more sense, I am still scratching my head that Eren supposedly likes Mikasa. His motivation is also ruined and makes no sense now, Isayama literally ruined his main character completely into this pathetic shell of himself. There is so much I could rant about but I will stop, I too believe he had change the ending from the 2018 ending he had in mind because this ending makes no sense. Honestly the more I think about it the more upset I get, I may need to avoid this sub forum because I don't want to reach the point where I may even drop the score any further. cchigu said: Neither was Chimera Ant arc ending non-cliche nor is this AoT ending non-cliche. Both were trying to evoke emotions using tricks that we have seen infinite times, but the execution of Chimera Ant arc's ending was well done and hence it is generally liked by everyone. On the other hand, AoT's ending was nonsensical and felt more like a parody of the series, or at least this is what the fans think. For me personally, I always had a feeling that it would all go crashing down and the ending would be your typical battle shonen ending. I mean, the franchise was as pretentious as Akame ga Kill since the beginning! MironBiron said: Of-course. Isayama just pussied out in the end. He wasn’t so confident about his original ending in the first place, and he probably isn’t self confident enough in general (keep in mind that he started AoT around the time that he was 20) to withstand pressure from Kodansha and EreMika shippers thus he blacked out in the end. It probably happened around Chapter 135, but Zeke’s words to Armin (So, Ymir ate you too...) point to a much different, more Ymir-focused ending than the one that we got. Chapter 137 is probably when he blacked out, threw away his original drafts in order to focus on this current ending. Eren’s original goal was to use The Rumbling in order to trigger an emotional reaction from Ymir strong enough to defy King Fritz’s will and lift up the Curse. The panels of Ymir freeing the pigs in Chapter 135 were there in order to make us familiar with Ymir’s desire to be free and witness the freedom of other living things, the same exact urges that ended up in her punishment. In order to make her disobey King Fritz’s will, Eren wanted to show Ymir a massacre so big that it would bring back her demolished sense of freedom; The emotions she had while freeing a bunch of King Fritz’s pigs (that would otherwise be killed and consumed as food) were building up to a perfect parallel of her freeing humanity of their suffering by lifting up the Curse. If we follow the lore of Attack on Titan, and listen to Pastor Nick’s words to Hanji at the beginning of the Clash of the Titans, we can conclude that Wall Titans are actually just mindless Titans who can move independently from The Founder so long there’s sunlight. Thus, the only way for The Rumbling to actually stop, would lie in Ymir Fritz’s desire to lift up the curse. And the only way to get her to that point would be to show her The Rumbling and trigger the same, wholesome urge she had 2000 years ago while freeing those pigs (her first and only time disobeying King Fritz). I don’t know the exact details of it because I’m not Isayama, but in the original ending, Eren had to go so far with his plan that he ended up killing his friends as well. My guess is that originally Armin sacrificed himself in order to trigger a sense of empathy from Ymir, his character was building up towards sacrifice heavily. Ymir’s account of Ramzi’s death played a big part too. Another big factor playing into the original ending, would be a deal made between Eren and Ymir, which would allow Ymir to become reborn as Eren and Historia’s child in a free world, with a dad who continued to push forward in order to seclude his goals, but at what cost? Valyrian1124 said: This is the final chapter of the manga. We have 40 pages to provide closure... and they spent half of it on exposition about "blah blah motives and how the power works". Total nonsense. *sigh* Oh look, it's the stupid Code Geass plan all over again! "I shall become a heniously evil mass murder, a villain, that everyone will unite to take down. Thus, when I die, there shall be a world of peace!" goodness gracious stop using this idiotic plan people. "80% of humanity was killed during the rumbling" goodness gracious fuck you "She waited 2000 years for someone to free her from the pain of love" what Are they really talking about "who is going to marry Mikasa" now of all times? "I wanted to turn the earth into a brand new land" dude, the weight of the colossal titans has hard packed the earth so much that it can never be tilled by plows! It would take explosives and heavy machinery to excavate and unpack and loosen the dirt! Nothing will grow outside of the 20% of the world that was untouched again. It will take hundreds to thousands of years for erosion to loosen the soil and allow life outside of the 20% zone to thrive again! What the fuck? "Thank you?" No! Fuck him! Well, it's nice that Connie and Jean lived. But the 8 year/12 year terminal curse being magicked away just like that... I dunno. Why is Mikasa walking away? The whole stretch of the Marleyan peninsula/continent towards Paradis is a barren wasteland without anything to eat, and any vehicles to cross the ocean to Paradis have been destroyed. She needs to stick with the group here at the Marleyan base and head further south to find another harbor, or to fix the plane. Final thoughts I don't know. Meh, I guess? I stand by my statement in 2017 that I feel that I began losing interest after chapter 100 when he went full blown mass murderer and the series became very nihilistic. I had overall liked the series up until that point. But everything after... also, once again Japan is back at it again with the victimization of evil. Mass murderers are never held to account for their deeds. The story has to bend over backwards about how "misunderstood" or how "noble" they really were and how tragic their life was. Really grates me. Adnash said: This ending would be good for a mediocre manga full of romance and unrequited love elements... except Shingeki no Kyojin was not like that. Seriously, what was that? I didn't expect a flawless last chapter answering all questions. There were too many of them to answer even most of them in just one chapter that was also the final chapter of the whole series. I did not care about ships like EreHisu or EreKasa or whatever they were called like. I didn't care about Yaegerist stuff and Eren being a mastermind that he never was and I never understood why he was treated like that by many fans, but whatever, everyone have their own taste after all. I didn't expect much. Just a decent ending, even a mediocre one, wrapping up the story. This ending was clearly below average. It was not a disaster like Alternative Universe ending, but it doesn't mean it was good. It was bad, only slightly better than two theories I found before as the worst ending theories (AU ending and time loop ending). The story was wrapped up in a very generally way, being "enriched" by weird lovey-dovey elements and naivety beyond comparision towards the political and social aspects of the plot that were so well presented in several previous arcs, reaching their peak during Marley arc and War for Paradis arc (until the Rumbling). It's a shame that such an awesome manga had to have ending like this... Bizarre ending reminding more of a meme ending of some sort than actual real conclusion of this story. If the ending was at least average, I wouldn't change my score for this manga from 10/10, since I appreciate the journey through all those chapters I was able experience. However I can't give that kind of score to something that has such a bad ending. How did I rate this single chapter? Well, if AU or time loop endings would be 1/5, and AnR ending would be 5/5, and Alliance (bittersweet) ending would be 3/5, this chapter deserved to be rated as 2/5. you cant see that a cute ass tiger makes fun of you I cant see how anyone could not at least chuckle at this. |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
Apr 14, 2021 4:58 AM
#1447
| Why isn't the manga chapter count updated to "139" instead of "?"? |
Apr 14, 2021 2:44 PM
#1448
| Wow this was kind of hard to read, such an entertaining series ruined with such a weak ending. This is one of the few times where Anime Original ending could end up being better than the original manga source if they decided to go that route. Eren's character in the finale was pathetic and I can't believe the way Ymir and Historia was handled in this overall. Oh well regardless it's an end of an era. AoT mark on the anime fandom was interesting to watch play out. Happy to break away from this series. |
Apr 14, 2021 4:33 PM
#1449
Gen2K_ said: the parallels between ymir and historia went to trash to pleasure the Japanese audience/eremika fangirls. That’s why historias storyline was useless at the end. I’m sure yams planned a different endingWow this was kind of hard to read, such an entertaining series ruined with such a weak ending. This is one of the few times where Anime Original ending could end up being better than the original manga source if they decided to go that route. Eren's character in the finale was pathetic and I can't believe the way Ymir and Historia was handled in this overall. Oh well regardless it's an end of an era. AoT mark on the anime fandom was interesting to watch play out. Happy to break away from this series. |
| Attack on Titan ended with chapter 123 and 130/131 is the epilogue |
Apr 14, 2021 5:14 PM
#1450
| oh brotherrr what a nasty ass way to end the series. Everyone who became a titan is back to normal cuz the power of Nakama prevailed and Eren is a good guy who only wanted to take out 80% of humanity. oh and he’s a bird now lol and Ymir was following orders for 2000 years cuz she was “in love” with the old ass weirdo who killed her family, cut her tongue, shot her with arrows, raped her and then fed her to her own children, and that somehow was supposed to parallel Mikasa's love with Eren lmfaooo i’m sleep, get this corny ass shit tf outta here. Isayama is a fuckin dweeb |
| Floyd Mayweather English Tutor |
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