rdturbo said: thats on you then. that is what you are getting from the anime while I am getting something different. And he does get consequences, but indirectly. I dont want to spoil anything, so I am not sharing how what happens in the future affects him. I think the anime has done a good job so far portraying his scummy character so far, especially the way Sugibro voices his inner self. I think in your mind, you have already judged this show as shit, so the good points just escape your attention. Its not your fault, not every anime is made for everybody. So you are telling me that playing off his scummy character as a joke or just not in a serious manner is according to you a very good way of portraying it? |
| Subarashii |
ViktorLocke said: Avicebrons said: The problem here is also that even if the MC has the best character development in anime history. That still doesn't change the fact that the anime failed horrendously in portraying his character. At the very least in the parts where the anime is currently. And you aren't one to decide who can watch the show, nor who is allowed to criticize it. It's people like you that halt the progress of things. How are things supposed to improve if one is never allowed to speak their minds about it and only allowed to either love it or say nothing at all. He never even said he disliked the show as a whole. Just this one aspect. And your first response is "WeLl If YoU dOnT lIkE iT tHeN dOnT wAtCh It" It would be like having a nice meal in a restaurant. Then you say audibly "This meat is very nice, compliments the drinks too. I like it a lot. I just wished they cooked it a little longer" and one of the customers stood up and said "YOU KNOW WHAT JUST LEAVE IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY. DON'T MAKE OTHER PEOPLE FEEL BAD FOR EATING AT THIS RESTURANT. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE FOOD THEN DON'T EAT IT. JUST LEEEEEAAAAVEEEE!!!". Cause that's pretty much what you're doing with this statement. He blatantly admits to wanting to groom her. Which in and of itself is extremely creepy. But also, if they ever have a relationship in the future, which they most likely will cause it's pretty predictable. Then he most certainly have groomed her.   I think your restaurant analogy was a good one. It's perfectly fine to disagree with other peoples' criticisms, but to try to censor them for it? Nope. Other fans of this anime seem more passionate than I am; so I assume based on that, they catch on details like Rudeus trying to groom Sylvia, better than me. Yet, I see quite a few fans on MAL outright say these details don't exist. I'm not trying to say they are stupid, or insult them or anything for this, but it does make me go, "Huh?" @rdturbo Alright, so maybe the author does put these indirect obstacles to punish Rudeus once in a while. But why make them subtle and small? Why not go all the way to punish Rudeus for a being a pervert, and a pedophile? I don't think these small "punishments" he receives match the weight of his actions. And besides, in the light novel: It's especially hard to believe an anime views its protagonist as a scumbag, when it plays his scum behavior for laughs. Japan and most of the eastern world has the concept of karma. What you do is what you get, and sometimes the consequences happen in the most mystical ways In the case of Paul and Rudy, both get karma for their actions in a way they dont expect. If you really really want it, I can spoil the story for you. Also from the spoiler, you have just seen the end destination, not the journey that got him there and when that part of the story really comes, he does not treat them in any shape or form as what you mentioned. Yeah, he does kinky shit later on as well, but only with people who wanna do kinky shit as well. And pervyness of his character gets toned down in the future a lot, because he realizes that what he was doing is only going to harm the people he loves and thats not how he wants to treat the people he loves. Right now, he still does not view the people around him as real people. In the novel, he constantly compares them with video game characters. The event that happened in the latest ep is gonna change his world view a lot. This story is a step-by-step process. Not everything is gonna happen in the same episode. Sometimes, his actions in the current ep may have consequences 20 or even 30 eps down the line. Thats the kind of story this is. |
| Nagatsuki Tappei (ReZero): It goes without saying that "Mushoku Tensei" is interesting, but first of all, it's amazing that you were able to depict the life of one character, Rudy. People say that "CLANNAD" is life, but for me, "Mushoku Tensei" is life |
| It's supposed to do that actually, the show doesn't pretend that he is a perfect human being, it's far from doing that. THE POINT OF THE SHOW IS THAT HE IS REALLY FLAWED AND THAT HE IS GONNA EVOLVE TO BECOME A BETTER HUMAN BEING. This change is not going to happen in 3 minutes, pretending that it does is a lie. WHAT THE SHOW TELLS YOU IS THAT IF YOU RELATE TO RUDEUS YOU MUST CHANGE. So yeah if you think the show is bad because of rudeus being so flawed then you're not a cornflake but an IDIOT. I could understand if it turns you off from enjoying the show but it's not bad because of that. |
| check out odd taxi |
rdturbo said: Avicebrons said: So you are telling me that playing off his scummy character as a joke or just not in a serious manner is according to you a very good way of portraying it? yeah, pretty much. I have seen characters like Rudy numerous times in Japanese media while growing up as well. I think this is a culture shock for many people who are new to anime, but the portrayal of characters like Rudy is common. When I was a kid, I used to watch shows like Shin-chan and Kochikame that had pretty much the same exact sense of humor. I mean even in GTO, we had Onizuka as one of the scummiest MC ever fantasizing about having a high school bride as a teacher. Maybe, I am just desensitized to it. I started watching western cartoons and TV shows pretty late, so my sense of humor maybe different to yours, but Eris beating up Rudy after the bed scene really made me chuckle. Of course, it made me uncomfortable, but the way that scene played out was pretty funny. So was the barn scene, when Eris woke up and they stared at each other for 2 seconds. Also, the prince licking Roxy's figure was hilarious. Maybe it really is just me, but I really like the sense of humor in this show. So then if you're saying them playing his scummy character in a non-serious way is "very good portrayal". Then why in the world should anyone take his development from said scummy character, serious? It doesn't' make any sense at all. |
| Subarashii |
ViktorLocke said: rdturbo said: Japan and most of the eastern world has the concept of karma. What you do is what you get, and sometimes the consequences happen in the most mystical ways In the case of Paul and Rudy, both get karma for their actions in a way they dont expect. If you really really want it, I can spoil the story for you. Also from the spoiler, you have just seen the end destination, not the journey that got him there and when that part of the story really comes, he does not treat them in any shape or form as what you mentioned. Yeah, he does kinky shit later on as well, but only with people who wanna do kinky shit as well. And pervyness of his character gets toned down in the future a lot, because he realizes that what he was doing is only going to harm the people he loves and thats not how he wants to treat the people he loves. Right now, he still does not view the people around him as real people. In the novel, he constantly compares them with video game characters. The event that happened in the latest ep is gonna change his world view a lot. This story is a step-by-step process. Not everything is gonna happen in the same episode. Sometimes, his actions in the current ep may have consequences 20 or even 30 eps down the line. Thats the kind of story this is. I am not saying that Rudeus doesn't change; I am saying that the anime is doing a terrible job at making me believe he's supposed to be scum; because, I repeat; the anime plays off his scum behavior for laughs. "Karma" in this case doesn't match the weight of his actions, meaning he's not really punished severely for his behavior; rather, he gets a pinch at most, metaphorically speaking. The anime clearly wants me to like him; based on his tragic backstory, how the other characters deeply like him, but I am unable to like him. like I said, he does get punished, just not now but in the future and in an indirect way. As for whether you like him or not, I have read the entire web novel and I still dont like him. I respect him for what he became in the end and how he got there, but that has nothing to do with whether I like him or not. According to me, the author does a good job fleshing out his character as well as others in the story. There are multiple layers to each one of them and most of them dont appear as they seem but thats a discussion for another time. I didnt like Naruto as well as a character, but I still think it was a good show. Not every character has to be likable. And to me, the author did his utmost to make Rudy unlikable, especially in the first two volumes which were covered by these 8 eps. |
| Nagatsuki Tappei (ReZero): It goes without saying that "Mushoku Tensei" is interesting, but first of all, it's amazing that you were able to depict the life of one character, Rudy. People say that "CLANNAD" is life, but for me, "Mushoku Tensei" is life |
| Rudeus is more accurately a hentai (pervert), not a sociopath. He does have some sociopathic tendencies, but they're not severe enough to call him a sociopath. He is a bit emotionally immature and not well versed in romantic or sexual interactions (by his own account he has only been "trained" in them with dating sims..) but as we know from his narrator (the adult Japanese man he used to be) he does care about how others feel, which is in direct contrast to how sociopaths are wired. The most extreme thing he did so far was when he felt Eris' breast and tried to unpant her while she was sleeping. That scene was extremely disturbing, to put it mildly. Sleep obviously means "no consent" (unless consent has been given in advance), therefore that was clearly a sexual assault (considering he used to be an adult man and judging his action based on that). However when he removed Sylphie's pants he truly believed she was a boy - there was nothing sexual about it. And when he found Eris in episode 8 in his bed he did ask her about "doing things to her" and she consented (she said "just a little", but that is subjective). He was also uncertain about Eris' signals and whether she truly wanted to make out with her or not (it looked like she did) or was sent to his bed by her father to seduce him (or test him?). When Rudeus played the peeping Tom with his sensei Roxy and stole her panties he arguably did not cross a line; as we found out later she was aware of it. I think the only time he crossed the line was the aforementioned fondling and unpanting attempt of Eris. Beyond perverted and sexual assaulting that was utterly stupid, since Eris might have ratted him out to her father or grandfather, who would then might have kicked him out of the house. |
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rdturbo said: In my opinion, since you guys are watching the anime weekly, you guys are thinking too deeply about this. For me, as I was reading the novel, I had to only turn the page to get to next part of the story but you guys have to wait a whole week. This would've been a problem for the novel too. Since it was also released progressively. So if anything, this just sounds like the fault of the writer himself. This is basically writing 101. You still need to properly make the first act presentable without the knowledge and/or context of the other acts. If anything, the first act is the single most important one. So it's not that we're "thinking too deeply about this". Since this is literally all on the author/anime studio for how they choose to present the earlier parts which are released progressively as opposed to everything altogether. rdturbo said: Has it all been played for laughs tho? The trauma part was pretty serious to me. Its your choice if you want to take it his character growth as serious or not. I can separate comedy and the serious moments as well as look at the serious moments within the comedic parts as well, like the moment after the bed scene where he regrets about how he was almost going to take advantage of a child because of his horniness. Almost all of his pedophilic tendencies and just general creepiness has been played for laughs yes. If you're referring to the trauma of him being afraid of the outside. Then that wasn't played for laughs, but it was laughable in execution. Because he got over it in like 1 episode. If you mean the trauma of his past life, then that was just a flashback sob story. So while it wasn't played for laughs, you can't really expect to garner much sympathy from a poor writing technique like that. Ilxuss said: I don't think this is a good analogy. In restaurants it's expected to have the food tailored to your tastes in some way - at the very least you can choose what dish you want to eat and during your next visit you can inform the chef that you want your meat cooked longer than average. In anime watching, we all get to watch the same version, we don't have multiple versions for people who want to watch anime tailored to their tastes. A more accurate analogy would be visiting a restaurant where only pineapple pizza is served, the chef cooks one enormous pizza and everybody gets their slice. Since the restaurant always serves pineapple pizza all the people who visit eat there because they like pineapple pizza. One day a group sits at one table, they get their slices but they don't like pineapple pizza and they complain about this. Now the chef hearing this starts to think that maybe he should start serving pizza without pineapple because people stopped liking pineapple but when he does so all the regulars become disappointed because they used to come for pineapple pizza which isn't served anymore. It seems like you missed the whole point. So I don't really see what sense this makes. The point wasn't to make a 1:1 comparison in scenarios. The point was to paint an equally bizarre and stupid picture of his statement. Which boils down to that you aren't allowed to criticize anything and you can only love or leave. Which the restaurant analogy served its purpose for. Ilxuss said: In this and similar discussions, people want to see an anime that tries to stay true to the source material and don't want to see something that strays from it. And when they see people who complain about what their anime is they react with some degree of aggression because they don't want creators to stray away from the source material. And many of those who didn't read the LN/Manga/Webnovel also want to watch something that stays true to the original and they don't want to see something neutered or otherwise censored. And here you are simply explaining extremely toxic behavior from fans of the series. Them being afraid of censorship in turn ironically tries to censor other people. Ilxuss said: And honestly, I don't blame them. To show a recent example: people liked Ishuzoku Reviewers, other people started complaining about it and as the end result the publisher who bought the rights to translate and publish the work in the west decided to abandon it. Then those people who wanted to watch it are left in a position where they can't do so legally because nobody can pick it up because they don't have the rights to do so. Taught with similar experiences with games/anime they now react aggressively to people who voice their discontent because they know that if they don't do so the chances of getting a clipped version of the show they like increase. You can't blame people who validly criticize something for what major companies ultimately decides to do. That is a very twisted way of looking at it. From a business standpoint, Ishokuzu Reviewer was a really bad show to have on their site. And they probably didn't realize themselves just how bad it was. They're stupid as hell for removing it, I agree there. But I don't blame the people who criticized it. How do you expect people to get a genuine opinion of animes if the first thing that happens when you criticize something is that you get attacked? Please do tell me. |
| Subarashii |
rdturbo said: all I get from your post is you hate the story, you hate the author and the writing is piss poor, but in the end its just your opinion and I disagree with it massively and whatever you are hoping from this show, you aint gonna get it. hopefully something in the near future gets made to your tastes I don't hate the author. Absolutely no idea where you got that from. Please re-read what I said before you claim that I hate the author for some reason. I think the story has potential, but they're stubbing their toe with every step they take. The writing is so far is very weak yes. |
| Subarashii |
Avicebrons said: Then don't continue,since I don't see the point in continuing this "discussion"with someone who already has their point,and doesn't want to consider others points.End Of Line.Starhammer said: So once again you just prove that you didn't read my comment or you simply didn't understand my point. Don't see any reason to continue discussing this if you can't even understand what I'm saying.Actually your point didn't fly over my head,as I didn't really consider you were making a point worth being that interested in,and still don't.It's not "our" world he's in anymore,and he's had ten yrs of growth in that world to understand that worlds morals and ethics,and how he,as a ten year old,wants to deal with them. If you went to,say,England in the dark ages,would you try to force your morals and ethics on the locals from this era? - Don't think you'd survive for long if you did. And as for something a "ten yrs old" wouldn't think of? - Well,theres Lina Marcela Medina de Jurado,she gave birth at nearly six yrs old,and Alfie Patten,and others even younger than him,so do you think they did it by accident? But,it also seems you missed my point? - It's anime,or in other words,it's make believe,a show,entertainment,and as such,I'm starting to question your ability to differentiate fantasy from reality. Anyways,it seems we,like many others on this shows threads,will differ in our opinions,so lets just agree to disagree so we can enjoy whats coming next. |
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Starhammer said: Avicebrons said: Then don't continue,since I don't see the point in continuing this "discussion"with someone who already has their point,and doesn't want to consider others points.End Of Line.So once again you just prove that you didn't read my comment or you simply didn't understand my point. Don't see any reason to continue discussing this if you can't even understand what I'm saying. I do consider others points. But how am I supposed to hold a discussion if you can't understand what I'm saying. Maybe you should consider that. |
| Subarashii |
ExcaliburAO said: Wasn't there a new rule banning the talk of this stuff? No that would be dumbasf if they did that, imagine banning opinions LMAO |
| you're cool |
SparkingVolt said: No I’m talking about the talk of moral issuesExcaliburAO said: Wasn't there a new rule banning the talk of this stuff? No that would be dumbasf if they did that, imagine banning opinions LMAO |
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SparkingVolt said: ExcaliburAO said: Wasn't there a new rule banning the talk of this stuff? No that would be dumbasf if they did that, imagine banning opinions LMAO This isn't a public planform your "free speech" doesn't apply here. The mods can remove what ever they want to without a valid reason. |
FerParaguay90 said: It's funny that they didn't even bother to analyze and investigate, and find out what the medieval era really was like in real life, as it literally was, they hope. Life was not more than 40, so at 15 you were already an adult and they made you marry at an early age. They complain that we unjustifiably call "snowflakes" those who complain about having these kinds of scenes with lolis and you don't even know what the time was like. In short, he cries out their complaints and how this generation of crystal feels offended. Although one thing is not to like and another to offend you. If you don't like it, then great you are in your right, but feeling "offended" only shows how foolish and innocent they are. And about rudeus if you want it to evolve super fast to the point that it does not make sense, well, you must like badly developed cliche characters and without evolution a lot. Okay, but the mc came from Japan and from the real world let's say. He was not born with the logic of that world. He should have the morals of Japan as he was their pretty much all his life. Maybe it does not show him as a sociopath, but we now got to assume he liked looking at lolis and sexualized little girls in the old world. I personally don't care as I like the series, but that's the main point I think people are missing when the counter argue responses like yours. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Everytime he does anything pervy to Eris he gets brutally spanked, this time she even crushed his balls lol, so i think that balances things perfectly. sam5234 said: I don't get this age of consent crap, people say that Eris is incapable of making such decisions at this age but she clearly did beat the crap out of Rudeus and made it clear that she wants to wait 5 years. The way I see it, girl's in control of everything. Exactly |
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| Quit being a hypocrite when you're still watching the show. It's an amazing show, it's anime, it's fantasy, it's fiction. Get your ass out of here if you're complaining about anime fanservice in an anime. Quit bringing real life social norms into this. If you are why are you even trashing on Asian entertainment when you Westards are not even the target demographics? TLDR; don't like it, don't watch it. Quit your bitching it's fiction. |
DragevardMar 2, 2021 8:35 AM
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| It's an Anime... It doesn't harm any real children... Lmao why people keep freaking out |
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Dragevard said: I will continue to complain about ""fanservice""(I'm a fan, it certainly isn't servicing me. This is false advertising!), even outside of this show. You're welcome!TLDR; quit being a hypocrite when you're still watching the show. It's an amazing show, it's anime, it's fantasy, it's fiction. Get your ass out of here if you're complaining about anime fanservice in an anime.  People also really love throwing around the word "hypocrite" like it's a solution to definitely own the opposition with the barest minimum of effort. |
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Dragevard said: Quit being a hypocrite when you're still watching the show. It's an amazing show, it's anime, it's fantasy, it's fiction. Get your ass out of here if you're complaining about anime fanservice in an anime. Quit bringing real life social norms into this. If you are why are you even trashing on Asian entertainment when you Westards are not even the target demographics? TLDR; don't like it, don't watch it. Quit your bitching it's fiction. And you yourself are a hypocrite as someone else pointed out when you felt the need to make this exact same statement but as a whole thread. Despite this mindset being incredibly dumb. |
| Subarashii |
HigekiTragedy said: If you've read Lolicon for example you're not supposed to "understand" or "root" on the MC. When you read Heart of Darkness you're not supposed to cheer the MC as he went down the insanity rabbit hole. If you read crime and punishment you're not supposed to think "Man I want to be like the MC!" Is this by chance your very first series you've know with shitty protagonist? Not something done for a joke like what cheap mainstream media did but something that REALLY have shitty protag with shitty personality? Then welcome to the new page of your literature horizon. Get used to it. ah yes, here we can see the protagonist fighting his inner demons as he goes down inside the insanity rabbit hole while groping a sleeping child and wondering intellectually complex questions about the future breast size of his victim in his creepy 40+ years old mental voice, everything being portrayed in a serious dark atmosphere and TOTALLY NOT as the generic "tsundere hits pervert" cheap joke everyone knows in anime: Truly the horizons of literature have been expanded!  Adding this to my list of "disturbing things I've read in Mushoku Tensei forums". |
skysurf said: you are free to be disturbed :)HigekiTragedy said: If you've read Lolicon for example you're not supposed to "understand" or "root" on the MC. When you read Heart of Darkness you're not supposed to cheer the MC as he went down the insanity rabbit hole. If you read crime and punishment you're not supposed to think "Man I want to be like the MC!" Is this by chance your very first series you've know with shitty protagonist? Not something done for a joke like what cheap mainstream media did but something that REALLY have shitty protag with shitty personality? Then welcome to the new page of your literature horizon. Get used to it. ah yes, here we can see the protagonist fighting his inner demons as he goes down inside the insanity rabbit hole while groping a sleeping child and wondering intellectually complex questions about the future breast size of his victim in his creepy 40+ years old mental voice, everything being portrayed in a serious dark atmosphere and TOTALLY NOT as the generic "tsundere hits pervert" cheap joke everyone knows in anime: Truly the horizons of literature have been expanded! Adding this to my list of "disturbing things I've read in Mushoku Tensei forums". |
ItsBritneyBitch said: Mikhaelnaeemav said: What i can't believe is that the fandom is actually justifying this, what's wrong with the FBI LOL this is what im saying, theres one group of people that are enjoying the show but have the valid criticism (the most valid criticism in the world), but theres the other group that enjoy the show but lash out against anyone with this SPECIFIC criticism. I dont want to say it... but... those people that are so offended by this specific criticism...... well idk if the guy got removed from the forums but the mikhaelnaeemav guy is gone, his last comment was "I dont have time to argue so ill say it got boycotted and removed from china therefore its bad" not the exact words, but similar enough |
| A Wise Man Once Said: #(%!*@)+$& |
69ImNotAtroll69 said: Hyperactivy said: well idk if the guy got removed from the forums but the mikhaelnaeemav guy is gone, his last comment was "I dont have time to argue so ill say it got boycotted and removed from china therefore its bad" not the exact words, but similar enough Are you the one who reported me? LMAO I actually am not, I was trying to respond to you but it didnt let me so I refreshed and the thread was gone, I remembered I saw you here so I came to reply and I thought it sent... but it didnt so I refreshed and you were gone, can you tell me now what makes the show "objectively the worst ever" or are you going to dodge it again? |
| A Wise Man Once Said: #(%!*@)+$& |
69ImNotAtroll69 said: Hyperactivy said: I actually am not, I was trying to respond to you but it didnt let me so I refreshed and the thread was gone, I remembered I saw you here so I came to reply and I thought it sent... but it didnt so I refreshed and you were gone, can you tell me now what makes the show "objectively the worst ever" or are you going to dodge it again? Do you call writing a four lines answer "dodging"? saying it was boycotted and removed from china isnt exactly an answer my man, its not even an argument its just a fact... it got removed, so? its dodging lmfao |
| A Wise Man Once Said: #(%!*@)+$& |
69ImNotAtroll69 said: Hyperactivy said: saying it was boycotted and removed from china isnt exactly an answer my man, its not even an argument its just a fact... it got removed, so? its dodging lmfao This was like the first few words, not gonna write it again, but basically all what you read so far from @skysurf and multiple people, if it was trash then it's either being praised or trashed on, if it was the first like redo of healer then I'm ok, but this animation needs to go better series like (just as an example) Berserk or AOT, or any other series that has a meaningful message i.g Rokka no yuusha the future seasons my guy what you are doing rn is quite literally dodging, can you not on your own construct an actual argument as to why its "objectively the worst ever"? and no it wasnt the first few words it was 3/4 of what you wrote, the rest was labeling it as an hentai... despite it not being one. "but this animation needs to go better series like (just as an example) Berserk or AOT, or any other series that has a meaningful message i.g Rokka no yuusha the future seasons" so you mad at this series because it has good animation that could have gone to other series... my guy why are you here? studios exist animation isnt as simplistic as you think, if the studio who animated this would have animated something else it wouldnt be berserk or AOT... |
| A Wise Man Once Said: #(%!*@)+$& |
| I'll just say this: The perverted stuff makes me feel extremely uncomfortable due to their age. I partially read the manga (almost caught up to where I was), so I knew what was coming, to some extend. It still made me feel extremely uncomfortable. While not trying to excuse his terrible behavior, we have to remember that this is a fantasy setting and that our "norms and standards" don't apply there. I personally think that the show would be even better if they just... had their more extreme perverted stuff happen at a later age (I'm well aware that they can't do it. It's just a general critic of it). I get that bad habits may transcend a lifetime, but it's still, like I said, extremely uncomfortable. Regardless, it's still my favorite Anime this season, right alongside Wonder Egg. |
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