Himeee03 said: Let me start of saying, that I understand that any criticism of this show instantly makes you a "crybaby", and a "snowflake", and I would also like to say that Ive seen plenty of ugly bast**** 18+ anime, however none of these shows have made me feel as uncomfortable as this show. Its weird that rudeus is generally a likeable intelligent character, and had potential to be one of the better isekai protagonists. However i cant help to feel that rudeus has sociopathic tendencies. When rudeus took off slyviette clothing, i found it uncomfortable but i felt by the end, he had learned his lesson, however he does the same thing again to red head tsundere which shows that he in fact didn't was borderline about to rap**** her. Which makes it weirder to me, is that he showed no remorse and only regretted being found out instead of the action of stripping her. In the latest ep a similar scenario happens, he was prepared to have sex with her. At the surface is doesnt seem weird however rudeus is shown to be very emotionally intelligent, and logics that she is there because her father told to be there. Knowing this information, that was essentially forced by her family to be with rudeus and yet he still makes advances on her, makes me uncomfortable as rudeus understands what hes doing is wrong but still does it. The guy is literally a sociopath. Eris was not forced to be there with Rudeus and he got that, but he thought she wanted to be with him and went too far and she pushed him off, when in reality she just didn't want him to feel lonely since his family couldn't come |
Avicebrons said: I'm sorry,how is he an adult? - just because he has the mentality of a reincarnated adult? - He's ten yrs old fgs,and also this is set on a totally different world,different morals etc etc.Do you condone training a ten year old how to kill another person using magic,or a sword? - Would you condone training a ten year old to use a gun and show them how to use it on other people(well,tbh,that does happen in this world though),and in the end,its an anime,adapting a light novel or web novel,not set in this world,or bound by this worlds so called rules,legal or moralistic.L0sMichal0s said: rape her ? her father offered her to him. she offered herself to him as a birthday gift how is it raped ? isnt definition of rape "unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim" ? Yes you are right in your definition of rape. But you also forget that underage people are incapable of giving consent. Which is why even consensual sex with a minor is considered rape in the form of statutory rape. He's an adult, he's fully capable of understanding that she's at an age where she can't consent. But he just simply doesn't care. Because he's into that. He even have thoughts about how he's gonna groom her. the point being,it's a story.if you can't understand that,then maybe you might want to consider dropping it. |
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| why do people feel the need to make new threads crying about him being a pervert when there has already been a billion of them? guess the reason is cause posting in old threads won't give you the attention you need to spread that pc agenda and throw shades on people who are enjoying the show |
It's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. |
Starhammer said: Avicebrons said: I'm sorry,how is he an adult? - just because he has the mentality of a reincarnated adult? - He's ten yrs old fgs,and also this is set on a totally different world,different morals etc etc.Do you condone training a ten year old how to kill another person using magic,or a sword? - Would you condone training a ten year old to use a gun and show them how to use it on other people(well,tbh,that does happen in this world though),and in the end,its an anime,adapting a light novel or web novel,not set in this world,or bound by this worlds so called rules,legal or moralistic.Yes you are right in your definition of rape. But you also forget that underage people are incapable of giving consent. Which is why even consensual sex with a minor is considered rape in the form of statutory rape. He's an adult, he's fully capable of understanding that she's at an age where she can't consent. But he just simply doesn't care. Because he's into that. He even have thoughts about how he's gonna groom her. the point being,it's a story.if you can't understand that,then maybe you might want to consider dropping it. So based on your comment, literally any resemblance of a point being made just flew way over your head. And you question my ability to understand the show? He wasn't originally in that world. He was in "our" world for 30+ years. He is fully capable of understanding ethic and moral issues. But he is simply exploiting the morality and ethics of the new world, and the fact that he is conveniently in a underage body, in order to fulfill his creepy desires. And he is even self-aware of this fact, but doesn't care. For instance when he just blatantly admits to wanting to groom an underage girl. That's not something a "ten yrs old" would even think of, let alone act on. |
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Avicebrons said: Starhammer said: I'm sorry,how is he an adult? - just because he has the mentality of a reincarnated adult? - He's ten yrs old fgs,and also this is set on a totally different world,different morals etc etc.Do you condone training a ten year old how to kill another person using magic,or a sword? - Would you condone training a ten year old to use a gun and show them how to use it on other people(well,tbh,that does happen in this world though),and in the end,its an anime,adapting a light novel or web novel,not set in this world,or bound by this worlds so called rules,legal or moralistic. the point being,it's a story.if you can't understand that,then maybe you might want to consider dropping it. So based on your comment, literally any resemblance of a point being made just flew way over your head. And you question my ability to understand the show? Actually your point didn't fly over my head,as I didn't really consider you were making a point worth being that interested in,and still don't.It's not "our" world he's in anymore,and he's had ten yrs of growth in that world to understand that worlds morals and ethics,and how he,as a ten year old,wants to deal with them. If you went to,say,England in the dark ages,would you try to force your morals and ethics on the locals from this era? - Don't think you'd survive for long if you did. And as for something a "ten yrs old" wouldn't think of? - Well,theres Lina Marcela Medina de Jurado,she gave birth at nearly six yrs old,and Alfie Patten,and others even younger than him,so do you think they did it by accident? But,it also seems you missed my point? - It's anime,or in other words,it's make believe,a show,entertainment,and as such,I'm starting to question your ability to differentiate fantasy from reality. Anyways,it seems we,like many others on this shows threads,will differ in our opinions,so lets just agree to disagree so we can enjoy whats coming next. |
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Himeee03 said: Let me start of saying, that I understand that any criticism of this show instantly makes you a "crybaby", and a "snowflake" First I'm going to tell you a few things that you probably already know and have already been told, just to reinforce the point. In the girl's perspective, for someone of the middle age she was portrayed quite differently from the way someone in her position would be at that time in the same context. That is, they took it very easy with her, in the real world it would be much worse. The most correct portrait would be a girl virtually forbidden to give opinions without first asking for authorization from a man. And it was not common for a girl to refuse to a man after an arranged marriage, this had consequences that ranged from the death of someone specific to the beginning of a war between feudal lords. However, she was not in an arranged marriage with the MC. So in practice, she wouldn't even be allowed to be around the MC until her future husband was defined, to preserve her chastity to her future husband. To get an idea, the expression "child" only appeared in 1823, during abolutionism with the reflection of ideas about freedom, they observed that children were treated as slaves. Many, boys or girls, were handed over to sailors to be targets of rape since there were few women on the boats. But it was only in the 1960s, with many doctors treating thousands of children with fractures caused by their parents, something that could be avoided by reducing the demand for health services, that doctor Karl Heinz Kempe started recognizing physical abuse against children. Whereas sexual abuse against children was only formally recognized as a crime in 1990 with the Convention on the Rights of the Child. In the real world, this would be the real picture. And if it were like this and you felt bad about it, you should next be relieved that civilization has advanced since then. So, first of all, I must remind you: society has advanced since then, and will continue to do so. From the perspective of the MC, a Japanese man with 40 years of celibacy among little girls offering himself, is necessary to understand some points that I have already highlighted. First: Children's sexual protection laws are a convention of modern society. In other words, faced with a context where children were beaten and killed in sexual slavery, we decided to strengthen their protection with laws that use the age of consent as an argument. However, the definition of the age of consent is an arbitrary convention of ours. It does not exist in the biological context, it is controversial and has not been scientifically demonstrated (but it is a good starting point). In other words, can you scientifically prove that a 30-year-old has greater consent capacity than all 10-year-olds in this world? So I repeat, the initial argument for the physical integrity of children is empirically demonstrated, but the age of consent is just a convention. What do you mean a convention? A group of people (politicians with no training in the area) met and said: - I THINK a person can consent to sex from the age of 14. While another group in another country said: - I THINK that a person can consent to sex from the age of 13. That is why each country has different ages of consent, as it is not an objective criterion parameter, but the legislator's guess. It is even rooted in the false belief that human cognition develops at the same speed in all people. So, I personally think that an argument based on physical integrity would work better until we have more scientific data about the human mind. Since they are a convention and vary from country to country, people in a country where the age of consent is 16 years old could convict you for having sex with someone at age 15, even though in your country the age of consent is 15. In Japan, for example, the age of consent is 13 years old. 1 year below my country, where it is 14. That means that having sex with someone aged 13 in Japan is not a crime, but in mine it is. This is the level of arbitrariness of this type of law. That is, if in the country where Rudeus is now the age of consent is 10 years old (and she appears to be less than that), you can blame him as much as you can blame someone who had sex with someone at the age of consent in a country where the age of consent is lower than that of your country. Well, that is the flaw in the premise of consent. And before anyone says that Rudeus should ask himself: Is Eris old enough to consent to sex. I remember: Questions of this kind were asked by many legislators, who gave different answers in terms of the law. But, is there a single person on this planet who is old enough to consent to sex? Science has not yet answered this, but what we have so far, such as responses to pheromones or the lack of free will and belief in the ghost in the machine, has indicated that it has not. But it is not Rudeus who will give that answer. Second point: it is controversial about what makes people want to have sex with children, but what is not controversial is that repudiating this is cultural (including culture shock, like what you feel about it). Until the beginning of the last century, sex with children was endemic in society. And although some people recorded the repudiation, the majority dealt with it as a natural part of society. Well, Rudeus is 40 years old, 10 years older than the beginning of the criminalization of sex with children. So he is from a time of transition from where it was normal to where it is unacceptable. And it is interesting that he expresses precisely the behavior of this transition, where he is attracted to the little girls, but restrains himself and says that this is wrong. It is the behavior of those who grew up where this is considered normal, and became an adult while it became wrong, but now he returns to where it is normal again. While many who watch this did not go through the transition, they were only born when the idea that sex with children is unacceptable was well established. And again, this is cultural. It has never been like this before. That is, you have been taught not to accept someone having sex with children. Just as people are taught to follow X or Y religions and defend it with life. Finally, about the way you feel. As I said, it has to do with culture shock. It's like watching people cut off children's heads as an offering to their god and you feel bad about it. You are part of a group (society) that has established implicit and explicit thoughts and norms. When you see another group with different thoughts and norms, you feel bad, because it threatens your group by questioning what your group has been taking for granted. Whenever you are convinced that what your group establishes is right and someone does it differently, it is totally natural for you to feel disturbed. And if you think about what I am saying, you will realize that this is always what happens when an individual's action is confronted with your convictions. These are your mirror neurons telling you: you need to imitate what most people do (bandwagon effect) and not do it (dissent from conformity) is threatening. |
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| Yeah, I understand that reasoning. I don't really mind but I can definitely see how people won't like him much. |
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Starhammer said: So once again you just prove that you didn't read my comment or you simply didn't understand my point. Don't see any reason to continue discussing this if you can't even understand what I'm saying.Avicebrons said: So based on your comment, literally any resemblance of a point being made just flew way over your head. And you question my ability to understand the show? Actually your point didn't fly over my head,as I didn't really consider you were making a point worth being that interested in,and still don't.It's not "our" world he's in anymore,and he's had ten yrs of growth in that world to understand that worlds morals and ethics,and how he,as a ten year old,wants to deal with them. If you went to,say,England in the dark ages,would you try to force your morals and ethics on the locals from this era? - Don't think you'd survive for long if you did. And as for something a "ten yrs old" wouldn't think of? - Well,theres Lina Marcela Medina de Jurado,she gave birth at nearly six yrs old,and Alfie Patten,and others even younger than him,so do you think they did it by accident? But,it also seems you missed my point? - It's anime,or in other words,it's make believe,a show,entertainment,and as such,I'm starting to question your ability to differentiate fantasy from reality. Anyways,it seems we,like many others on this shows threads,will differ in our opinions,so lets just agree to disagree so we can enjoy whats coming next. |
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ViktorLocke said: I feel the way I see the anime, is disconnected from how many other fans of this show, in a way that I don't understand why; because I feel the arguments that justify Rudeus's behavior does not make much sense to me: People defend Rudeus's behavior with, "Well, the anime takes place in a Medieval based world." Except Rudeus is not originally from this world; he's from OUR world. Meaning that his understanding moral logic is the same as ours; he KNOWS that his perverted behavior is wrong. He refers to Paul as a degenerate, just like him. Another argument I don't understand is, "Well, Rudeus is not meant to be likeable." That's not how it appears to me at all; every time Rudeus does anything perverted, or thinks of anything perverted, the anime plays it off for laughs. Despite how perverted he behaves to the other girls, they still like him. In fact, most of the characters like Rudeus, despite his immoral behavior. Which indicates, along with the comical tone, that Rudeus is meant to be liked. That isn't to say that an unlikeable protagonist can't be well written; characters like the protagonist from Nightcrawler are interesting, and good characters; because they are NOT meant to be liked; the Nightcrawler film doesn't portray the protagonist as anything but a sociopathic piece of shit. The film doesn't make jokes out of his immoral behavior, and the other characters sure as hell do not like him. At no point in Nightcrawler, does the film try to make you feel for its protagonist. But in several instances in this anime, Rudeus is portrayed as a character who is meant to be sympathized with; evidenced by the anime showing his tragic backstory, and him trying to overcome his traumas. OP, I think the reason you feel more uncomfortable with Rudeus, more than the old dirty bastards from those 18+ anime is, I'm guessing, because those characters are not portrayed in a way where they are meant to be likable; which, I'm guessing, may be causing a bit of a conflict when watching this anime? I'm not trying to advocate against creative freedom; but if an artist wants to make an anime with a protagonist like this, okay. But I'm sorry, but freedom of expression is a two way street; if you have the right to portray whatever you want in your art, then I have the right to criticize your art. You can't advocate for freedom of creativity, but try to censor those who try to criticize those who use that creativity; the logic contradicts itself. What I do not understand is why a main character should be likeable. Do you feel aggression when you view the main character's "pedophilic" temperament? I do not feel anything for his actions. |
| Don't watch it then, do watch some generic mid shonen crap like jjk instead |
| These thread are hilarious. It's as if people keep watching the show just to find something new to be angry/displeased/uncomfortable about. Your first and only mistake is thinking real world rules apply to fiction. They don't. |
ViktorLocke said: I did not say that; in my original post, I said that if a story is going to portray a character as someone who's meant to be liked, then they should be likeable. Opticflash said: Do you feel aggression when you view the main character's "pedophilic" temperament? I do not feel anything for his actions. No? Where did you get that idea from? I simply feel a bit uncomfortable. But I'm not particularly outraged, since it's an anime. I'm new here, but I noticed, especially on this thread, that people on this site seem to get offended and upset, by others being offended and upset, by a fictional piece of work. There are people on this site who call people like the OP "snowflakes" for being upset over a fictional piece of work, yet those same people are arguably bigger "snowflakes" for being upset over other peoples' opinions on a fictional piece of work; they might as well be projecting. I shudder to think how these people behave in political debates; since politics are far more serious, controversial, and worth getting upset over, then anime... Ahh I see, I do not see his character as likeable or unlikeable (or whether he is "supposed" to be liked and how it contrasts with my moral views), I just see his character as him, you know? So I do not find his actions uncomfortable nor pleasant. Entertaining? Perhaps. I think often when people claim they are uncomfortable with fiction with morally questionable content such as this one, the pushback is due to them going to great lengths to slander the show, condemn the author, call it problematic, or perhaps even calling for a ban of such content from being produced. |
ViktorLocke said: I feel the way I see the anime, is disconnected from how many other fans of this show, in a way that I don't understand why; because I feel the arguments that justify Rudeus's behavior does not make much sense to me: People defend Rudeus's behavior with, "Well, the anime takes place in a Medieval based world." Except Rudeus is not originally from this world; he's from OUR world. Meaning that his understanding moral logic is the same as ours; he KNOWS that his perverted behavior is wrong. He refers to Paul as a degenerate, just like him. Another argument I don't understand is, "Well, Rudeus is not meant to be likeable." That's not how it appears to me at all; every time Rudeus does anything perverted, or thinks of anything perverted, the anime plays it off for laughs. Despite how perverted he behaves to the other girls, they still like him. In fact, most of the characters like Rudeus, despite his immoral behavior. Which indicates, along with the comical tone, that Rudeus is meant to be liked. That isn't to say that an unlikeable protagonist can't be well written; characters like the protagonist from Nightcrawler are interesting, and good characters; because they are NOT meant to be liked; the Nightcrawler film doesn't portray the protagonist as anything but a sociopathic piece of shit. The film doesn't make jokes out of his immoral behavior, and the other characters sure as hell do not like him. At no point in Nightcrawler, does the film try to make you feel for its protagonist. But in several instances in this anime, Rudeus is portrayed as a character who is meant to be sympathized with; evidenced by the anime showing his tragic backstory, and him trying to overcome his traumas. OP, I think the reason you feel more uncomfortable with Rudeus, more than the old dirty bastards from those 18+ anime is, I'm guessing, because those characters are not portrayed in a way where they are meant to be likable; which, I'm guessing, may be causing a bit of a conflict when watching this anime? I'm not trying to advocate against creative freedom; but if an artist wants to make an anime with a protagonist like this, okay. But I'm sorry, but freedom of expression is a two way street; if you have the right to portray whatever you want in your art, then I have the right to criticize your art. You can't advocate for freedom of creativity, but try to censor those who try to criticize those who use that creativity; nor should you criticize people for being offended, but be offended, by those people being offended; the logic contradicts itself. This. I 100% agree with what you said. People claim things such as "he's not supposed to be likable" but then why does the anime portray him in such a way. It's just so contradictory and just feels like a convenient excuse people make up. I don't think people would be criticizing it if they actually properly portrayed his bad acts as bad. Give them consequences. Don't play it for laughs. I remember seeing a YouTube video where they showed a scene of Rudy laying horny in bed thinking about an underage girl and how he's gonna groom her. The title was something like "Pog moment" and it had 500k views with like 15k likes. So if he's supposed to be portrayed as trash then they're doing a horrible job at it, cause that video proves that the audience cheers for his actions. And saying that he's supposed to be unlikable is just a poor excuse, cause he's clearly not supposed to be. Like you yourself mentioned. You definitely don't need to make the MC likable. Nightcrawler which you brought up (great movie by the way), is a perfect example. The MC is an outright scumbag, and the movie portrays it properly. No one likes him as a result and they don't play his bad deeds for laughs either. Opticflash said: What I do not understand is why a main character should be likeable. Do you feel aggression when you view the main character's "pedophilic" temperament? I do not feel anything for his actions. I mean he specifically said that the MC doesn't have to be likable. The problem arises when they write him unlikable but portray him as if he's supposed to be likable. It contradicts itself. Glordit said: Your first and only mistake is thinking real world rules apply to fiction. They don't. Well the problem comes when the fiction itself says that it's set in our world/the real world. Cause that's where the protagonist is from. So I'd say it's fairly logical to criticize these things when it's still within the context of the established fiction. |
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ViktorLocke said: Opticflash said: Ahh I see, I do not see his character as likeable or unlikeable (or whether he is "supposed" to be liked and how it contrasts with my moral views), I just see his character as him, you know? So I do not find his actions uncomfortable nor pleasant. Entertaining? Perhaps. Interesting. Opticflash said: I think often when people claim they are uncomfortable with fiction with morally questionable content such as this one, the pushback is due to them going to great lengths to slander the show, condemn the author, call it problematic, or perhaps even calling for a ban of such content from being produced. I haven't seen anyone on MAL, thus far, going to any lengths to do any of that stuff. These, "SJWs" on MAL that everyone is so afraid of; are no different than the boogeyman; they don't exist here. Perhaps not here in this specific anime subforum, but Redo of Healer is a different story... |
ViktorLocke said: He nearly molested her, just last episode, a week ago, (I think it was last episode). It's Epsiode 6, 2 weeks ago. |
Oh wait, I missed the "nearly", in which case yeah he did nearly molest her last week. Facepalm |
Avicebrons said: Opticflash said: What I do not understand is why a main character should be likeable. Do you feel aggression when you view the main character's "pedophilic" temperament? I do not feel anything for his actions. I mean he specifically said that the MC doesn't have to be likable. The problem arises when they write him unlikable but portray him as if he's supposed to be likable. It contradicts itself. To be honest, I do not see how this statements make much sense. For one, likeable and unlikeable is merely a notion of one's own comfort with the character or the presentation so the reasoning here is quite vacuous; it is tantamount to saying it's a bad piece of work because the author wrote something the viewer personally did not like while also contrasting it with something the viewer personally liked. One could give the same remark for main characters of violent video games for example, where effort is made into making the audience sympathize with the characters situations (in the single player storyline) while at the same time having the characters commit illegal acts or acts of violence out of selfishness or convenience. In such a case, many would even consider such characters likeable for being "badass". Moreover, how would an author know what constitutes likeable and unlikeable for the majority of the audience? The audience themselves would be in conflict with each other; some character traits will be seen as likeable by many but detested by others. Is the author supposed to conduct a survey of some sort to optimize the probability of writing likeable traits for the modern audience in Japan (and the West)? Unless the character is a holier-than-thou type, I do not see how the author achieves this. ViktorLocke said: Opticflash said: Perhaps not here in this specific anime subforum, but Redo of Healer is a different story... Now, I haven't watched Redo of Healer; only heard of it. But the criticism towards it, from what I've seen, doesn't seem to have anything to do with, "SJWs" (I'm starting to be confused what that term even refers to anymore, because it's such a huge buzzword). But rather, that Redo, from what I've heard of it, is just an overly edgy anime. I've personally argued with countless people in that subforum and elsewhere who claim the show is problematic, encourages "incel" behavior and has a negative influence on social attitudes. There were even people attacking the fans of the show, claiming the fans are misogynists who fantasize about raping women (this also happened in a review once before it got taken down). You can call it "edgy", yes. |
OpticflashFeb 28, 2021 10:52 PM
ViktorLocke said: As for video games, I don't know any examples of this. For video games, what I mean is that some people may play games such as Grand Theft Auto but the characters may be unlikeable to them because they sometimes commit atrocious acts out of nothing more than convenience. Then all of a sudden, the story becomes more deep and they are made to sympathize with the character's background or situation. Obviously this rarely happens as most people have no issues committing heinous acts in video games; some would even call it "cool" or "badass" (whatever terms people like to use these days), thus likeable and unlikeable are constructed out of one's own comfort level at what they are used to in contemporary fiction. Had a 60 year old parent who has never gamed in their life suddenly pick up Grand Theft Auto, they may be severely turned off by it then made to feel sympathy for the characters if they decided to complete the single player storyline. |
Opticflash said: Avicebrons said: I mean he specifically said that the MC doesn't have to be likable. The problem arises when they write him unlikable but portray him as if he's supposed to be likable. It contradicts itself. To be honest, I do not see how this statements make much sense. For one, likeable and unlikeable is merely a notion of one's own comfort with the character or the presentation so the reasoning here is quite vacuous; it is tantamount to saying it's a bad piece of work because the author wrote something the viewer personally did not like while also contrasting it with something the viewer personally liked. One could give the same remark for main characters of violent video games for example, where effort is made into making the audience sympathize with the characters situations (in the single player storyline) while at the same time having the characters commit illegal acts or acts of violence out of selfishness or convenience. In such a case, many would even consider such characters likeable for being "badass". Moreover, how would an author know what constitutes likeable and unlikeable for the majority of the audience? The audience themselves would be in conflict with each other; some character traits will be seen as likeable by many but detested by others. Is the author supposed to conduct a survey of some sort to optimize the probability of writing likeable traits for the modern audience in Japan (and the West)? Unless the character is a holier-than-thou type, I do not see how the author achieves this. ViktorLocke said: Now, I haven't watched Redo of Healer; only heard of it. But the criticism towards it, from what I've seen, doesn't seem to have anything to do with, "SJWs" (I'm starting to be confused what that term even refers to anymore, because it's such a huge buzzword). But rather, that Redo, from what I've heard of it, is just an overly edgy anime. I've personally argued with countless people in that subforum and elsewhere who claim the show is problematic, encourages "incel" behavior and has a negative influence on social attitudes. There were even people attacking the fans of the show, claiming the fans are misogynists who fantasize about raping women (this also happened in a review once before it got taken down). You can call it "edgy", yes. I mean TLDR at this point you're just pulling the "everything is subjective" card. Yes it's true that you can't actually objectively determine what's supposed to be unlikable and likable. But the problem with pulling the subjective card is that you're haulting any and all discussion about pretty much anything. It's like the Exodia of conversations. Cause after that point literally any form of criticism given can just be chalked up to subjectiveness. There needs to be some level of understanding between the people in the conversation where even subjective aspects are considered valid. Which the unlikable/likable qualities of Rudy, while subjective, have proven to be time and time again here. By the majority. But all of that is just removed when you say something like this. |
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Himeee03 said: Why yes, yes it does. With good reason I might add.Let me start of saying, that I understand that any criticism of this show instantly makes you a "crybaby" I would also like to say that Ive seen plenty of ugly bast**** 18+ anime, And, you find this one offensive. Something doesn't compute here, as I've also seen quite a bit of hentai too. When rudeus took off slyviette clothing, i found it uncomfortable Strange, being a hentai watcher, I quite enjoyed it. he in fact didn't was borderline about to rap**** her. It's not whatever rap**** is, if she's willing, and she looked that way to me. At the surface is doesnt seem weird however... The biggest reason this sentence is true is because it wasn't weird. The guy is literally a sociopath. Thank you for your opinion. |
| I just don't understand why this season Anime fans are starting to voice their opinions. Have people not understood what anime has been doing for years now? LOL. It's so fucking weird to me honestly. With Redo of the Healer and now this show, people are FINALLY seeing how fucked a lot of anime AND hentai is morally. No one can disagree, but it's just an animation. The lolicon craze is 1 of the driving factors as to why I've hated anime for awhile. This is probably the only "lolicon" anime I've watched in a long time. It's good. Ngl. This is 1 of the best isekai anime ever created so far. The pervertness of the MC actually adds to the show in this case, and the creator did it beautifully. This is a GREAT anime. tl;dr; its an anime, if u have a problem with this then u shouldn't watch anime. other anime has other morally wrong things such as killing innocent people. how do you stomach an MC killing innocent people? don't watch the anime, literally nobody cares about ur moral standpoint on an anime. what u said at the beg. is correct, it is snowflakey. you shouldn't play video games either then honestly, just do IRL stuff and do outdoor activities.. Maybe you shouldn't watch TV Series that aren't in the modern era either. bye |
SasoraFeb 28, 2021 11:11 PM
ViktorLocke said: Huh. That's weird; because based on what I've heard of, Redo is such an over the top edgy anime, that it's too disconnected from reality. Meaning, I don't think it can really have a negative influence on an actual person. Like, I think for a piece of art to have a negative influence on someone, its message must be delivered in a grounded way. I agree with you. The story in Redo of Healer is absurdly comical; a man gets raped in the most facetious manner and doing the same in return out of revenge. It is "edgy", yes. If a fiction presented sexist views in a subtle manner, e.g. a man always paying for dates, or a woman always cooking for her husband as if that were the norm and expected in society, it may make some in the audience believe that that is the norm or how it should be in real life (something something "cultivation theory"). Some people argued that Redo of Healer was an example of cultivation theory at play where it influences "incel beliefs" and negative attitudes and rape fantasies towards women. I argued extensively with one person in particular who said this a week back. |
ViktorLocke said: At no point did I. I was merely strongly agreeing with that other dude. Is agreeing with someone now verboten?@NoviSun Calling someone a snowflake because they're mildly upset about an anime, but being more upset than they are upset (to a point where you're insulting them over a dumb cartoon)...is like the pot calling the kettle black; except the kettle isn't black at all, in this specific instance. |
| theres actually people unironically here debating the morality of an anime holy shit LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i almost want to delete my post cus people will just reply to it trying to debate me if u actually care this much then close ur eyes and close the tab |
Jie386 said: I almost wonder with the way the MC is portrayed and the reception this show is receiving I personally think this is a reflection of great writing. Not everything has to be likable or lawfully good. Seeing Rudy act as a scumbag is for sure unnerving sometimes when you realise best girl is 12 but that's the society they are living in. To see Rudy be introspective about his choices indicate he isn't the paedophile the forum makes you believe. Having an MC or any character for that matter stir conversations and be controversial helps develop a multifaceted character. I liken this to the Nina scene in FMA. Was the father the lowest bit of scum in anime? To me yes. Was the scene horrific in its portrayal of child abuse? Yes. Did the scene move the narrative along in such a way that added a layer of complexity to the world around it? Yes. Being exposed to something awful isn't bad. Enjoy the show for what it is and tune out if you don't like it rather than hating on a forum. It feels like you're missing the point. People aren't criticizing the anime because the MC does horrible things. People are criticizing it because it does a horrendously poor job at portraying said horrible things. The scene in FMA you brought up is a good example. But in that scene everything was conveyed properly. The characters were all disgusted and horrified by the acts and there were severe consequences following those acts. In Mushoku Tensei however, it's just Rudy doing something objectively horrible and the way the anime portrays it is basically a sitcom laugh track, people saying "silly Rudeus" and then they forget about it all the next scene with zero consequences. It isn't actually portrayed in a negative light as opposed to FMA which actually does portray it in a bad light. |
| Subarashii |
Avicebrons said: I mean TLDR at this point you're just pulling the "everything is subjective" card. Yes it's true that you can't actually objectively determine what's supposed to be unlikable and likable. But the problem with pulling the subjective card is that you're haulting any and all discussion about pretty much anything. It's like the Exodia of conversations. Cause after that point literally any form of criticism given can just be chalked up to subjectiveness. There needs to be some level of understanding between the people in the conversation where even subjective aspects are considered valid. Which the unlikable/likable qualities of Rudy, while subjective, have proven to be time and time again here. By the majority. But all of that is just removed when you say something like this. The issue I see isn't that the viewer's opinion is subjective, but that it is purely based on preferences ("likeable" or "unlikeable" and whether or not there is a mixture or a contrast) without any extrapolation into the whys and why their personal preferences take precedence into what constitutes a problem in a fictional work. If this was all there was to it, the author would conduct a survey or investigation into the character traits that optimize the likeability in the eyes of contemporary society and call it a day. So yes, we can have a discussion on what the problems in a work are, but we'd have to give more in depth reasons that address the whys, otherwise it would truly devolve to "it's my preferences and my preferences beat yours". An example of a counterpoint would be, for instance, that the character is purposely written to be both unlikeable and likeable with the intention of having the audience feel a mixture of emotions as if one were seeing a real person, sometimes charitable, fail dramatically at life. Such a character may be a representation of our own merits and achievements, as well as shortcomings, for that matter. The author's intention would then be for the audience to become more and more sympathetic and understanding over time as the character grows out of these traits as a person. |
OpticflashFeb 28, 2021 11:44 PM
Jie386 said: I appreciate the response, that certainly sheds this in a different light. Is it possible then considering the character development we have seen thus far that its perhaps a matter of time and further story development until we can appreciate these moments to juxtapose it to future events and see how his bad actions affect the narrative? The problem here is also that even if the MC has the best character development in anime history. That still doesn't change the fact that the anime failed horrendously in portraying his character. At the very least in the parts where the anime is currently. LoveAnime_4ever said: OK please! If you don't like the show please don't watch it!!!! Instead of saying shit that you don't like. It makes people who LIKE the show feel bad. And you are no one to decide what or who is right or wrong. And you aren't one to decide who can watch the show, nor who is allowed to criticize it. It's people like you that halt the progress of things. How are things supposed to improve if one is never allowed to speak their minds about it and only allowed to either love it or say nothing at all. He never even said he disliked the show as a whole. Just this one aspect. And your first response is "WeLl If YoU dOnT lIkE iT tHeN dOnT wAtCh It" It would be like having a nice meal in a restaurant. Then you say audibly "This meat is very nice, compliments the drinks too. I like it a lot. I just wished they cooked it a little longer" and one of the customers stood up and said "YOU KNOW WHAT JUST LEAVE IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY. DON'T MAKE OTHER PEOPLE FEEL BAD FOR EATING AT THIS RESTURANT. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE FOOD THEN DON'T EAT IT. JUST LEEEEEAAAAVEEEE!!!". Cause that's pretty much what you're doing with this statement. q1w2e3r4t5 said: rudeus hasn’t done anything that fits the definition of grooming. He blatantly admits to wanting to groom her. Which in and of itself is extremely creepy. But also, if they ever have a relationship in the future, which they most likely will cause it's pretty predictable. Then he most certainly have groomed her.   |
| Subarashii |
Avicebrons said: Jie386 said: I appreciate the response, that certainly sheds this in a different light. Is it possible then considering the character development we have seen thus far that its perhaps a matter of time and further story development until we can appreciate these moments to juxtapose it to future events and see how his bad actions affect the narrative? The problem here is also that even if the MC has the best character development in anime history. That still doesn't change the fact that the anime failed horrendously in portraying his character. At the very least in the parts where the anime is currently. LoveAnime_4ever said: OK please! If you don't like the show please don't watch it!!!! Instead of saying shit that you don't like. It makes people who LIKE the show feel bad. And you are no one to decide what or who is right or wrong. And you aren't one to decide who can watch the show, nor who is allowed to criticize it. It's people like you that halt the progress of things. How are things supposed to improve if one is never allowed to speak their minds about it and only allowed to either love it or say nothing at all. He never even said he disliked the show as a whole. Just this one aspect. And your first response is "WeLl If YoU dOnT lIkE iT tHeN dOnT wAtCh It" It would be like having a nice meal in a restaurant. Then you say audibly "This meat is very nice, compliments the drinks too. I like it a lot. I just wished they cooked it a little longer" and one of the customers stood up and said "YOU KNOW WHAT JUST LEAVE IF YOU HAVE NOTHING NICE TO SAY. DON'T MAKE OTHER PEOPLE FEEL BAD FOR EATING AT THIS RESTURANT. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE FOOD THEN DON'T EAT IT. JUST LEEEEEAAAAVEEEE!!!". Cause that's pretty much what you're doing with this statement. q1w2e3r4t5 said: rudeus hasn’t done anything that fits the definition of grooming. He blatantly admits to wanting to groom her. Which in and of itself is extremely creepy. But also, if they ever have a relationship in the future, which they most likely will cause it's pretty predictable. Then he most certainly have groomed her. yup he definitely wanted to groom her. But his parents as well as Sylphie's parents caught on to it. Or rather they though their co-dependence on each was wrong for both of their development, so the grooming plan failed. the author sets up a lot of these scenarios to show how much of a scum Rudy is, but he always puts up obstacles or consequences that start improving Rudy's behavior regardless of what he thinks. I think you should have caught on to it by now. |
| Nagatsuki Tappei (ReZero): It goes without saying that "Mushoku Tensei" is interesting, but first of all, it's amazing that you were able to depict the life of one character, Rudy. People say that "CLANNAD" is life, but for me, "Mushoku Tensei" is life |
rdturbo said: yup he definitely wanted to groom her. But his parents as well as Sylphie's parents caught on to it. Or rather they though their co-dependence on each was wrong for both of their development, so the grooming plan failed. the author sets up a lot of these scenarios to show how much of a scum Rudy is, but he always puts up obstacles or consequences that start improving Rudy's behavior regardless of what he thinks. I think you should have caught on to it by now. Well what I have caught on to. Is that the author purposely writes scenarios in which Rudy can be a creep with little to no consequences. They don't show how much of a scum he is. Because these scenarios are either played for laughs, or just in a very light hearted way. So if it's supposed to be like what you are saying, which I don't believe it is. Then the anime does the most horrible job possible at portraying it as such. |
| Subarashii |
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