Dragon Ball is underrated

KingPiccolo said:
I ain't whining about anything, again if I had an ulterior motive, why did I put actually great series such as Hunter x Hunter, Berserk, Monster, Fist of the North Star, and even though I don't think Mob Psycho is the best, it resonated with me somewhat, so I gave it a high score as well. With ulterior motives I would of given everything a low score besides Dragon Ball, there are no ulterior motives these are 100% my opinions. I even admit Hunter x Hunter, Berserk, Monster are leagues above Dragon Ball, I just have a bitter taste for people that shit all over this series even though they never watched an episode in their life

De_Baer said:


So you really think Dragonball is a masterpiece and FMA and Vagabond are among the worst manga every written? Please explain why you think so. I am genuinly curious.

De_Baer said:


So you really think Dragonball is a masterpiece and FMA and Vagabond are among the worst manga every written? Please explain why you think so. I am genuinly curious.

newazurill said:


Dragon ball is light on character development but if you think it has less than MHA and Kimetsu then you're just ignorant. Compare Gohan's development in his first arc to Zenitsu's entire existence where the story actually rewards him for being a coward.

What do you mean 0 explanation? When DBZ sets a power up they forshadow it or set it up well before the battle. Powerups acquired through the battle are gained after a struggle and don't finish the fight immediately. In MHA the character just goes past 100% out of nowhere and instantly finishes the battle.

The villains of MHA and Kimetsu are pretty laughable as well. MHA get the villain who justifies villainy through nonsense and tragic backstories and Kimetsu has flat villains that get random flashbacks when they die which apparently makes them sad I guess. Dragon ball doesn't waste its time trying to make its villains look complex but instead uses it to build them up as massive threats unlike OFA which just lost anticlimactically.

The only anime you listed that I agree was well written was HxH otherwise they're all trendy anime that will be forgotten a year or two after they're finished.

Tendo_GM said:

Kimetsu no Yaiba does have some amazing villains that still haven’t shown up in anime, some of the examples are Akaza, Kaigaku and even Muzan, they are all written pretty good and they have a huge impact on the story and other character by having a direct connection to their growth.
MHA does villains good by integrating them in a world that the author created, in a world where everybody has powers and has a chance of becoming a hero, there are people in society who would really have a problem with that and they would grow into naturally hating them and turning into villainy. It’s great in a sense that by the standards of the story some of them really do grow to be villains in a natural way.
But boy, don’t get me started on Chainsaw man and how it destroys everything else.
Black Clover does have a villain on par with Chainsaw Man who is lightyears further than anybody in DB.

Kimetsu no Yaiba does also have serious character development which is miles ahead of DB, it’s just not animated yet since the anime only sets up the image of all the character before they grow.

And you say that the powers in DB are foreshadowed ????
Tell me where in the story in the first Dragon Ball does it foreshadows Goku’s powers and powers of everybody else that they acquire in Super ?? They just magically start color shifting their hair, bro unexplainable.

KingPiccolo said:


Vagabond I'll leave as a 1, but FMA isn't really a 1 now that I think about it.

Tendo_GM said:

Bruh, it flew over your head, you’re still at 20 anime i think? If you give it a 1/10 and you finished it, that means that you probably didn’t understand what you read.
When it comes to Vagabond, it’s not a question of “opinions” and “tastes”, it is a masterpiece, something that has so much value that it’s not about personal preference, it’s a manga that you can’t say that it is bad, because it i factually not. It’s the same thing with the cult movies like Godfather, Shawshank Redemption, 12 Angry Man and Pulp Fiction, they are all masterpieces that have no arguments as to why they are not, just like Vagabond.

Tendo_GM said:

Bruh, it flew over your head, you’re still at 20 anime i think? If you give it a 1/10 and you finished it, that means that you probably didn’t understand what you read.
When it comes to Vagabond, it’s not a question of “opinions” and “tastes”, it is a masterpiece, something that has so much value that it’s not about personal preference, it’s a manga that you can’t say that it is bad, because it i factually not. It’s the same thing with the cult movies like Godfather, Shawshank Redemption, 12 Angry Man and Pulp Fiction, they are all masterpieces that have no arguments as to why they are not, just like Vagabond.

KingPiccolo said:


New anime fans love to bring up Super, I'm speaking about the O.G. run not Super.

I think you're speaking of ultra instinct, it has been hinted on since Revivial of Friza but I don't know if you've even watched Dragon Ball before.

I've heard of Demon Slayer's ending that it was so bad not even the fans supported it, but I dropped the manga so I don't know if the character development you speak of is truly as great as you speak of. I don't know why so many new anime fans hate Dragon Ball, maybe because they hate how popular it is.

Black Clover is shit IMO, and Chainsaw Man feels generic to me but I love the sense of humor, it just feels overrated to me though.

Tendo_GM said:

“New anime fans”
Look at my list if you want, im well informed in anime and I actually do know what im talking about.
Black clover ANIME is bad, but the manga with no fillers has the most complete first part of anime other shounen manga. DB just introduces new characters for content with no foreshadowing, where Black Clover hinted at and set up the main plot and the villain from episode/chapter one and it is still involved with everything that it prompted at the start of the series.
Chainsaw Man probably also flew over your head if you don’t understand it’s greatness, I don’t know what chapter you’re on, but the most recent ones turn everything before upside down with meaning behind everything that happened.
Demon Slayer ending was not the best, but it literally doesn’t matter, the build up to it and everything that happens before it was excellent. If the ending is some kind of an argument for a long series then what about Hunter x Hunter? The manga is still not done and nobody knows when or how it will end and it doesn’t affect the series at all.

RightwingMilluki said:
Sadly DBZ is trash (I liked it when I was younger) so people conflate that with DB.
Even though DBZ has the reputation of beeing more mature because Goku is grown up and its more violent, I would rather rewatch Dragonball. The mangaka wanted to end it after the Freezer saga. He should have done so. The world is so interesting and diverse. In Z they just fly over it. There a still strong strangers out there. In Z they have to come from space or have to be godeating demons. DBZ still has its moments but its not worth wasting your time with all the bad stuff.

KingPiccolo said:


I never watched Shawshank Redemption, 12 Angry Men, and Pulp Fiction, so I say much on that. But are you comparing the Godfather to Vagabond? lol

Tendo_GM said:

Yes, trust me my friend, I have been into movies long before I started watching anime, and i still watch more movies that anime and study cinematography as a hobby, Vagabond is as good as Godfather.
And you haven’t seen 12 Angry Man, Shawshank Redemption and Pulp Fiction, how can you then even criticize movies (if you do)?
Have you maybe watched The Dark Knight, Inception, Gladiator, The Lord of The Rings, Fight Club, Forrest Gump, The Empire Strikes Back, The Matrix, Saving Private Ryan, One flew over Cuckoo’s nest, Green Mile, The Usual Suspects, Interstellar, Whiplash or the Prestige?
If you did, then I agree that you should know how great Godfather is and how Vagabond can stand with almost the same quality.

KingPiccolo said:


I don't know if you've ever watched Dragon Ball before because you're speaking like the people on Twitter who speak about a show they've never watched. Chainsaw Man I'm on chapter 30 and I've only enjoyed 3 chapters of that manga so far, it's fun, but it feels medicore. Maybe I'll like it as I read more and the characters grow on me.

If an ending is shit, it just feels like time wasted, like the whole stories potential has all led up to nothing, (Like Naruto, the story was amazing but the ending was shit!) and it just ruins the whole experience and leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. The ending is arguably more important than the beginning and the middle. I hope the anime changes the ending of Demon Slayer.

Tendo_GM said:

You dodged the argument about HxH which doesn’t even have the ending.
And Chainsaw Man is way better then you think, you’re only on chapter 30 and the story in the recent 3-4 chapters turns everything upside down and it literally reveals a character as great as Griffith.

newazurill said:


Super isn't part of the original story. It's just additional padding for fanservice that came 30 years after the story concluded. Bring me a powerup in DB/DBZ that came out of nowhere like they do in KnY and MHA and we'll talk.

I wouldn't really bother checking the manga of KnY since imo the anime was solely carried by the studio rather than story, but I'll check sequels once they release. But the way it handled villains so far has been pretty atrocious. Flashbacks when villains die is something I absolutely hate in shounen and if any of the upcoming villains only get characterized when they die then count me out. About MHA, villains that have issue with society are called terrorists and are pretty typical in anime, all it did was give them superpowers and dumb monologues. I find Shigaraki to be one of the worst villains in shounen, he's aimless, juvenile, and idiotic yet he's the only one with proper buildup in the anime.

As for characters Zenitsu being a main character on his own weighs down KnY hard. Cowardly characters are abundant in anime but they usually have common sense and understand their own weaknesses. Not only is he ridiculously loud Zenitsu doesn't even try, all he does is squeal. They had him once hide behind a defenseless child as a gag even though Zenitsu was the one who was armed and licensed to kill demons. That moment was indefensible in any way. The character just lost any redeeming factor. It doesn't matter what trauma they bring up in a flashback later he still behaved inexcusably and lost any respect he could've had. Not to mention obnoxious unfunny sleaziness. As I said the show still rewards him for his obvious lack of trying by making him OP in his sleep for no reason, or for some nonsensical reason it will explain in a flashback later as usual. Jeez I hate the "to be explained in flashback" writing that a lot of modern anime seem to employ. I know I've been trashing Zenitsu for a while but I can't help it character writing like this pisses me off so much.

Nemo_Niemand said:
You don't dare to put that shit at one place with the holy Hokuto no Ken and Jojo.
It's a mere silly shounen. Its mc is one of the most retarded mcs ever. The level of degeneracy in this show's fanservice scenes and comedic scenes is unmeasurable.
It's simply overrated as hell. It is praised only because of all those incompetent shounen fags and nostalgia jerks.

KingPiccolo said:


I can't answer the question about HxH until it actually ends.

Also as great as Griffith!? That's a very bold claim, re-sparked my interest in the series again. I might check it out again soon if this is really true.

Tendo_GM said:

Feel free to, you’ll see that everything that has happened up to this point (the current chapters in manga) is all for the sake of the villain’s reveal and everything that happened was also constructed by him/her.
Its a perfect circle, chapter one is explained in the last chapter.

KingPiccolo said:


Right now the story just feels so flavor of the week, like "Could our hero defeat this new demon!?" I'm getting bored of it

Nemo_Niemand said:
You don't dare to put that shit at one place with the holy Hokuto no Ken and Jojo.
It's a mere silly shounen. Its mc is one of the most retarded mcs ever. The level of degeneracy in this show's fanservice scenes and comedic scenes is unmeasurable.
It's simply overrated as hell. It is praised only because of all those incompetent shounen fags and nostalgia jerks.

KingPiccolo said:
I can't even go on Twitter or Reddit without somebody shitting on DB, I feel like nowadays nobody respects the vets like Yu Yu Hakasho, Dragon Ball, Fist of the North Star, and Jojo's would be getting the same treatment if not for the latest anime

If you haven't watched an anime or haven't read the manga, please don't speak shit about it.

TolkienFan365 said:


I still really enjoy OG DB and even Z but there are glaring flaws (mainly in Z) like for instance death being of no consequence. Though I find it funny you say JoJo gets more respect because of a new anime is funny since DB also got a new anime and I think that hurt it's reputation with some fans if anything.

The other cases it really is just older media in any medium is not going to be brought up by the mainstream or popular crowd. What is current is what gets talked about and that has always been true.

KingPiccolo said:


And then there's the new fans that say things like "Dragon Ball as a whole is all fight and no plot!" Yet they've never watched a single episode of the show.

KingPiccolo said:


Underrated as in people calling the plot shit.

Jojo got a reboot, Super is a continuation fanservice, not a reboot

TolkienFan365 said:


There was also DBZ Kai which was a reboot. That only finished five years ago. As for the first case yeah.... it's a flawed work and most big action/adventure battle shonen get plenty of flack.

KingPiccolo said:


It's getting underrated in this very thread. The plot always gets downplayedyed

BiDiGiN said:


Why do you think DB has a good plot?..

newazurill said:


What started that argument was you saying that there's unexplained powers in DB, I only mentioned MHA and KnY in comparison but ok I'll mention some. Deku vs Muscular: Deku gets overpowered, kid cries, Deku pulls out OFA 1000000% and the battle is over. Deku vs Overhaul: Deku isn't even a threat, Little girl gives him a random powerup, he finishes the fight right there. On the topic of Zenitsu his sleep mechanic counts. On the other hand something like super saiyan was foreshadowed throughout the Namek arc and when it arrived it still didn't end the fight immediately and anticlimactically but rather drive it to its final phase. On the other hand we have Tanjirou who suddenly remembered his father in the middle of the final exchange in the fight giving him a random powerup in the right timing to finish the battle (or get saved by someone else I guess).

Also on Zenitsu I don't really care if he conquers his fears at some point. I've seen that type of development before and most characters that fall in this category weren't caricatures like him.

KingPiccolo said:


Reboot as in re-animation from the beginning to end

Watame said:
Agreed. A small addition:

Darkraii said:
No one respects Yu Yu Haksuho, Dragon Ball, Fist of the North Star, and Jojo? what are you on????

TolkienFan365 said:


That's oddly specific in large most of the Western fandom hasn't seen OG DB and their opinions are very much from Z. That is also the part that gets critiqued the most. How is DB getting a remake going offset the problems people have with Z?

KingPiccolo said:


Idk people just love to hate for no reason

TolkienFan365 said:


Buddy I do have reasons to dislike some of the things DB did. It's not blind hate. Plenty of people have various opinions on why they don't like some of the decisions of the series. That's true for any media work. You can handwave any critique as just haters but there are people who will give you a well thought critique of it.

This just starts to come off as you being sensitive for more than anything either to critique regarding DB or the fact most new fans are chasing new relevant content out there they can socialize with people on.

KingPiccolo said:


See everytime I ask them they don't give an answer they just give a salty reply, it's like their angry about something so I think it's just clear hate but idk maybe I'm blinded by nostalgia

TolkienFan365 said:


I mean where are you posting lol. You aren't going to get much meaningful or insightful conversation in most internet communities that is true for any series not DB. Battle shonen tend to have some of the worst communities as well.

Secondly I am not telling you to go denigrate a series you care about. I am just saying not everyone is just hating on DB. There are critiques maybe those don't bother you. That's true for my favorites.

That said I don't really see that much hate towards DB from new fans. Most of them are talking or bashing stuff like MHA or Demon Slayer. DB mostly gets talked about at all by older fans or people already up to watch older titles.

KingPiccolo said:


Woah lol

On Twitter all the new fans love MHA and hate DB same as Reddit

TolkienFan365 said:


I don't think you have been where I have been. MHA S4 was getting bashed for implied animation issues and most people feeling disinterested in the story. I rarely see a thread at all on DB/DBZ on reddit but every week you will get a few "hey am I the only one who thinks Demon Slayer is overrated/trash".