Vinland Saga
AbsurdistOtaku said: Tsarko said: Other reason is the type of story this is. It's slower and doesn't have that many "moments". Many anime that explode in popularity usually have some "big moment" happening, like big plot twist or some epic action sequence for example, which leads to it being shared and hyped all over the internet and being spread by the word of mouth at a rapid pace. Think of Demon Slayer episode 19 or Attack on Titan episode 1 for example . Vinland Saga didn't have anything like that so far and is simply a slower story that takes its time to build itself and its characters. I think you've summed it up the best. I think what's not helping Vinland Saga's case, is that the anime doesn't look that great; the CG is noticeably bad, the animation is typical still-frame anime (except for a few fight scenes). What I've noticed is that nearly every popular anime I've heard/seen (with few exceptions like FMA and SAO) have very distinct art styles. While I wouldn't say CG is great, I also can't say it's that bad. At least not that bad to deter potential viewers. I'd say the way they utilized it so far is good. I personally haven't been bothered by it so far nor have I seen that many people who were driven away by it. Story takes place in such a setting where it's either CG or billion still frames. Animating something like battles and other similar scenes with big number of people moving without any use of CG would be nothing but a miracle for two cour TV anime. Though quality of the models could've definitely been better. I also wouldn't agree that it doesn't look that great. Sure, animation is not on the levels of B: The Beginning or One Punch Man or whatever but it's perfectly more than serviceable and definitely above many seasonal anime. There were many non-action cuts that were given big amount of attention when animating (i.e bucket shot n the first episode). I'd say most of its downtime moments are definitely better than Attack on Titan for example where in most non-action cuts characters are just standing and flapping their mouths with almost none character acting. I'm not saying Vinland has big amount of character acting, but I'd say it has more than many anime. Can't agree with art style not being distinct, I think it is distinct more than enough. Though it might not be distinct in a way that attracts wider audiences. How many anime have this realistic and detailed character designs? Character designs in the show are extremely detailed if you look closer. They are going to such lengths as even showing the gaps between teeth in in-between frames, along with other small details. Even character designer and director said how worried they are if they could keep up with all the details in designs. Not only are designs detailed but also extremely varied. Not only character designs, but also prop and setting designs. Also background art is downright beautiful. I'd definitely say art style is distinct, but yeah, maybe not in a way that attracts that many people. |
TsarkoSep 13, 2019 11:23 AM
vhagar8 said: Damn fanboys are really blind these days. Regardless of how good or bad u think this show may be, the premise is just not appealing enough to hit AoT level of mainsteam. Y'all spamming 2deep4u memes won't change that. Also 100% agree with this: Roevhaal said: Ylva is the only good character but she isn't even relevant, the rest of the cast sucks. Okay anyone who seriously believes in this & not as a jest, I pray for your mental health, I really do. |
| I used to be a watchmaker. |
| I feel like the average anime fan is far more engrossed by basic adventure stories that contain some form of superpower involved (e.g. Naruto, BnHA, SnK) not that there's anything wrong with that. Personally, Vinland Saga comes off as far more complex in its story in that it emphasises historical, philosophical and growth related aspects with the occasional fight scene here and there. It's much more grounded in reality, basically and therefore comes across as less appealing to the standard viewer. |
Slimcoder said: vhagar8 said: Damn fanboys are really blind these days. Regardless of how good or bad u think this show may be, the premise is just not appealing enough to hit AoT level of mainsteam. Y'all spamming 2deep4u memes won't change that. Also 100% agree with this: Okay anyone who seriously believes in this & not as a jest, I pray for your mental health, I really do. Can you explain why the characters are good then? all characters are one dimensional, Ylva is the only character with greater depth than a puddle of water. |
Parthostic said: I feel like the average anime fan is far more engrossed by basic adventure stories that contain some form of superpower involved (e.g. Naruto, BnHA, SnK) not that there's anything wrong with that. Personally, Vinland Saga comes off as far more complex in its story in that it emphasises historical, philosophical and growth related aspects with the occasional fight scene here and there. It's much more grounded in reality, basically and therefore comes across as less appealing to the standard viewer. How does leaping 20 meters into the air and throwing 5 ton boulders not count as super powers? |
Roevhaal said: Slimcoder said: Okay anyone who seriously believes in this & not as a jest, I pray for your mental health, I really do. Can you explain why the characters are good then? all characters are one dimensional, Ylva is the only character with greater depth than a puddle of water. So a puddle of water then because Ylva has no more greater depth than most of the characters in this show. EThat's without getting into the fact that Askeladd is already a multi-facteed character. He's a mercenary with some standards of honor who does not share in the revelry the rest of his viking comrades have for battle & has a growing attachment to Thorfinn. Even then the arrival of Canute which should begin around episode 10 is when the character interactions start becoming more & more complex. |
| I used to be a watchmaker. |
Slimcoder said: That's without getting into the fact that Askeladd is already a multi-facteed character. He's a mercenary with some standards of honor who does not share in the revelry the rest of his viking comrades have for battle & has a growing attachment to Thorfinn. wow, such depth, this one character has standards of honor despite being a mercenary. only 9 episodes in and we already have such deep complex characters. Don't make me laugh. |
Roevhaal said: Slimcoder said: That's without getting into the fact that Askeladd is already a multi-facteed character. He's a mercenary with some standards of honor who does not share in the revelry the rest of his viking comrades have for battle & has a growing attachment to Thorfinn. wow, such depth, this one character has standards of honor despite being a mercenary. only 9 episodes in and we already have such deep complex characters. Don't make me laugh. So? Its a slow-burn of a show. Sure the pacing is a bit glacial but eh but that's the fault of the anime-only episodes. No show has "deep complex characters" in its 1st cour unless its only supposed to go for 12 episodes. Everyone starts out simple. Main characters are set-up, their relationships & motives are defined. All that's left is for the plot to begin and set them on the whirlwind adventures which is right around the corner. |
| I used to be a watchmaker. |
Slimcoder said: Roevhaal said: wow, such depth, this one character has standards of honor despite being a mercenary. only 9 episodes in and we already have such deep complex characters. Don't make me laugh. So? Its a slow-burn of a show. Sure the pacing is a bit glacial but eh but that's the fault of the anime-only episodes. No show has "deep complex characters" in its 1st cour unless its only supposed to go for 12 episodes. Everyone starts out simple. Main characters are set-up, their relationships & motives are defined. All that's left is for the plot to begin and set them on the whirlwind adventures which is right around the corner. This coment chain started because someone claimed that the characters were ''great thus far'' though, I have no idea about what's to come. |
Roevhaal said: Slimcoder said: So? Its a slow-burn of a show. Sure the pacing is a bit glacial but eh but that's the fault of the anime-only episodes. No show has "deep complex characters" in its 1st cour unless its only supposed to go for 12 episodes. Everyone starts out simple. Main characters are set-up, their relationships & motives are defined. All that's left is for the plot to begin and set them on the whirlwind adventures which is right around the corner. This coment chain started because someone claimed that the characters were ''great thus far'' though, I have no idea about what's to come. Well its not exactly a false statement. None of them are particularly badly written characters & their actors are turning in well-done performances to make them suitably entertaining. |
| I used to be a watchmaker. |
| eh... no... the actors are doing a solid job as always but the characters are terrible and far from entertaining, in 9 episodes all we've seen in form of not being terrible characters is seing how Ylva deals with loss. |
| So no problem at all then. Good. |
| I used to be a watchmaker. |
Parthostic said: I feel like the average anime fan is far more engrossed by basic adventure stories that contain some form of superpower involved (e.g. Naruto, BnHA, SnK) not that there's anything wrong with that. Personally, Vinland Saga comes off as far more complex in its story in that it emphasises historical, philosophical and growth related aspects with the occasional fight scene here and there. It's much more grounded in reality, basically and therefore comes across as less appealing to the standard viewer. I have no problem with this part that I mark in bold, this is certainly true not only for anime fans but for movies and tv series fans as well, having some type of super power in any series peaks an audience interest more, than say a detective series, the general public is looking for something that is out of this world, something that is not the norm and it can run their imagination wild, which is why Marvel and DC is so popular. Now I disagree with the rest of your sentence, about vinland saga story is more complex and grounded, I think snk and naruto story is far more complex than vinland saga and they are just as grounded to reality like vinland saga, both snk and naruto has all those elements you mention and more, not because their is super power element in it, doesn't stop it from being grounded. From the 50 chapters I have read, vinland saga strength is more for its characters growth and development than story, it has the typical historical stories you would see in any historical anime or tv series, its easy to follow and enjoy. Don't take this the wrong way as I have given the manga a 8/10, I came in expecting it to be a certain type of series and that is what I got. At the end of the day, these are two different series going for different things. |
keragammingSep 14, 2019 12:16 AM
keragamming said: Parthostic said: I feel like the average anime fan is far more engrossed by basic adventure stories that contain some form of superpower involved (e.g. Naruto, BnHA, SnK) not that there's anything wrong with that. Personally, Vinland Saga comes off as far more complex in its story in that it emphasises historical, philosophical and growth related aspects with the occasional fight scene here and there. It's much more grounded in reality, basically and therefore comes across as less appealing to the standard viewer. I have no problem with this part that I mark in bold, this is certainly true not only for anime fans but for movies and tv series fans as well, having some type of super power in any series peaks an audience interest more, than say a detective series, the general public is looking for something that is out of this world, something that is not the norm and it can run their imagination wild, which is why Marvel and DC is so popular. Now I disagree with the rest of your sentence, about vinland saga story is more complex and grounded, I think snk and naruto story is far more complex than vinland saga and they are just as grounded to reality like vinland saga, both snk and naruto has all those elements you mention and more, not because their is super power element in it, doesn't stop it from being grounded. From the 50 chapters I have read, vinland saga strength is more for its characters growth and development than story, it has the typical historical stories you would see in any historical anime or tv series, its easy to follow and enjoy. Don't take this the wrong way as I have given the manga a 8/10, I came in expecting it to be a certain type of series and that is what I got. At the end of the day, these are two different series going for different things. You bring up some good points. I think 'complex' was the wrong word, I feel as though the historical aspects of the show are a lot less enticing to viewers whereas learning about the Shinobi or Titan world is. I'd still argue against the grounded aspect. Whilst most of the stuff that happens in Naruto/SnK can be justified within their respective stories there are aspects that don't feel grounded to me. Examples; Naruto bringing Guy back to life and Armin surviving that fall against the Colossal titan. You could maybe justify these situations using the abilities within the stories but they're kinda like "what?" moments to me. I think Vinland Saga handles the events in its reality a lot more logically and feels like the rules within its story are always followed is basically what I'm getting at. Granted, it's very early to make this point so take it with a grain of salt hahaha. |
Roevhaal said: That's fucking lightweight you soyboy. You've never lifted 5 ton boulders before?Parthostic said: I feel like the average anime fan is far more engrossed by basic adventure stories that contain some form of superpower involved (e.g. Naruto, BnHA, SnK) not that there's anything wrong with that. Personally, Vinland Saga comes off as far more complex in its story in that it emphasises historical, philosophical and growth related aspects with the occasional fight scene here and there. It's much more grounded in reality, basically and therefore comes across as less appealing to the standard viewer. How does leaping 20 meters into the air and throwing 5 ton boulders not count as super powers? |
| I think it is because of the Viking's setting. To be honest it is not one of my favorite settings - I prefer the later medieval era (which isn't even middle ages anymore 1600-1800 or something like that) and fantasy-like stuff with buildings and tech level looking like from that era. Now sadly we have - because most people prefer it - bad stuff like that ... meaning Isekai + your usual annoying Isekai hero + females (harem-like). Anything "better" than that is less popular. Most of the better fantasy in medieva-like setting (non-isekai) also did not get sequels and only the bad stuff. (Well at least that is my opinion. For a lot of people the other stuff seems to be "better".) Look at that Shield Hero Anime (which I dropped) - it also has "only" about 400k despite being very popular in the forums. --- I bet it will be harder next season ... tons of competition. I have already about 6 sequels that I want to watch for sure. (Okay half of them not that good but I still want to know how the story continues.) With Vinland Saga continuing there won't be much room for other (new) stuff to pick up - unless I tune down the time I want to spent with gaming (which I just decided to increase and watching less anime). I doubt a lot more will pick this up next season. Maybe when it is finished. When sequel gets announced. (Manga seems to have tons of material for more seasons with this pacing I heard.) |
Black_Sheep97 said: Roevhaal said: your joking, did you see what happened to thorfin and how is character changed in those episodes.eh... no... the actors are doing a solid job as always but the characters are terrible and far from entertaining, in 9 episodes all we've seen in form of not being terrible characters is seing how Ylva deals with loss. I did, he went from Bratty Mc Bratt to Edge Mc Edgelord, truly spectacular character development right there. |
Black_Sheep97 said: keragamming said: I think the characters in the first 50 chapters in vinland saga are more complex than the ones in the first 50 chapters in Naruto and attack on Titan, you have canute, the priest , the caretaker, askeladd, Thors, Thorkell, thorfin and the king. All fleshed out and are more interesting than any characters in the the beginning of attack on Titan. Even the band of askeladd is complex.I have no problem with this part that I mark in bold, this is certainly true not only for anime fans but for movies and tv series fans as well, having some type of super power in any series peaks an audience interest more, than say a detective series, the general public is looking for something that is out of this world, something that is not the norm and it can run their imagination wild, which is why Marvel and DC is so popular. Now I disagree with the rest of your sentence, about vinland saga story is more complex and grounded, I think snk and naruto story is far more complex than vinland saga and they are just as grounded to reality like vinland saga, both snk and naruto has all those elements you mention and more, not because their is super power element in it, doesn't stop it from being grounded. From the 50 chapters I have read, vinland saga strength is more for its characters growth and development than story, it has the typical historical stories you would see in any historical anime or tv series, its easy to follow and enjoy. Don't take this the wrong way as I have given the manga a 8/10, I came in expecting it to be a certain type of series and that is what I got. At the end of the day, these are two different series going for different things. Of course they are, snk was mostly a plot driven series up to that point, snk doesn't got time to focus on characters that much when there is man eating giants attacking, that is why I said they are not comparable, one is plot driven the other is character driven. Vinland saga on the other hand doesn't really have a plot that needs to be resolve, the author can make 100 chapters of developing the characters and it wouldn't hurt the series, that can't work in snk settings. Snk has now switch to more of a character driven story since most of the mystery has been reveal and that is why characters like Eren has gotten a tone of development, but before that it was mostly about the plot and finding out the truth of this world. |
Roevhaal said: eh... no... the actors are doing a solid job as always but the characters are terrible and far from entertaining, in 9 episodes all we've seen in form of not being terrible characters is seing how Ylva deals with loss. Are we watching the same show? I really don't see how you think this. |
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Black_Sheep97 said: keragamming said: sure but the point still stands that the characters of vinland saga for that time were better than the characters of attack on Titan. Whether it's plot driven it's always fair to compare a series based on plot and characters. And based on what happens later it's debatable whether the plot of attack on titan is better than vinland, cause of the daring and powerful switch the series made.Of course they are, snk was mostly a plot driven series up to that point, snk doesn't got time to focus on characters that much when there is man eating giants attacking, that is why I said they are not comparable, one is plot driven the other is character driven. Vinland saga on the other hand doesn't really have a plot that needs to be resolve, the author can make 100 chapters of developing the characters and it wouldn't hurt the series, that can't work in snk settings. Snk has now switch to more of a character driven story since most of the mystery has been reveal and that is why characters like Eren has gotten a tone of development, but before that it was mostly about the plot and finding out the truth of this world. And the characters of the first 50 chapters of attack on titan are still good, just not as good as vinland. I probably need to continue reading vinland saga, because the impression I got is that what comes after where I am at is the farm arc which is a character development arc, I didn't know that later on it starts to delve in the story. If you could hint to me exactly what its plot is going for that would be good. But I would be surprise if there is anything deep or complex about its plot, I don't see a historical series having those types of plot without it having fantasy or science fiction elements to it, because those are generally the type of stories that have a really complex plot with plot twist and various elements interacting with each other. Also this isn't a disrespect to vinland saga, but a settings that sticks to reality for the most part without any supernatural element or science fiction element generally has a simple plot with the cast carrying the series. It was never a debate for me when it comes to characters in snk as I know this isn't the strongest category when it comes to snk. |
keragammingSep 15, 2019 12:37 PM
Black_Sheep97 said: Roevhaal said: exactly that is spectacular character development, he went from a bratty kid that was naive and adventurous to one with an obsession with dealing with the guilt of his father death and basically be completely obsessed with revenge. It shows the impact that moment had on him and encapsulates his trauma as a result.I did, he went from Bratty Mc Bratt to Edge Mc Edgelord, truly spectacular character development right there. If you like that then good for you, I just find his character cringy |
| There were a lot of breaks in the show which lowered the hype early on. The show is also not a straight shonen like demon slayer and other shows airing right now. I think the show will be highly rated and fairly popular in the anime community overall but it will never be a big well known show like most popular shonens are. |
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| You're not going to get S1 AoT levels of hype with Vinland Saga. In fact, you aren't going to get it with 99% of any anime that's ever aired. Both are also completely different as well, despite being animated by the same studio. AoT's a dark fantasy action anime about a post-apocalyptic world supposedly over-run by giant monsters with the last of humanity contained within 3 concentric walls. That's a pretty unique and enticing premise to hook you. Not to mention it's 1st episode is generally considered to be one of a handful of truly great openers to a series. Vinland Saga is a slow-burner, a historical action/drama and is far less frenetic throughout, focusing less on action and more on it's main character, and the relationships between the main cast throughout as Thorfinn journeys from an adolescent to an adult. It's been a solid start with a few excellent episodes, but you get the feeling there's still more to come before the season ends. Having read the manga, as the series progresses it'll attract some fans, but it'll also lose some as well. |
ACasualViewer said: There were a lot of breaks in the show which lowered the hype early on. The show is also not a straight shonen like demon slayer and other shows airing right now. I think the show will be highly rated and fairly popular in the anime community overall but it will never be a big well known show like most popular shonens are. It has little for it to do with it being a shounen as tokyo ghoul became very popular and it is a seinen series, it wont be popular because historical series are not normally popular and I'm talking tv shows and movies as well, its just not a popular settings. |
Black_Sheep97 said: how the hell is he complex? all he did was to become edgelord to avenge his father, he's not complex at allRoevhaal said: so complex characters are cringe, I guess people have different taste.If you like that then good for you, I just find his character cringy |
| Nearly everyone that uses Amazon on a semi regular basis has Amazon prime. People simply don't care about Vinland saga. It's a niche series in a niche medium. |
ACasualViewer said: Is Demon Slayer really good? I've kept it on-hold since the first episode because it didn't captivate me as much as Vinland Saga did, also partly because I'm a big fan of Wit Studio's art style and animation.There were a lot of breaks in the show which lowered the hype early on. The show is also not a straight shonen like demon slayer and other shows airing right now. I think the show will be highly rated and fairly popular in the anime community overall but it will never be a big well known show like most popular shonens are. |
I just realized that all of my favorite characters, beside being stunningly beautiful, also happen to be exceptionally skilled murder machines. \('-')/ I'm level  on mal-badges. View my badges. |
electromagneto said: If you can see the 5/5 %age in episode discussion then demon slayer's first episodes are low in 60's for 5/5 but it do increase later on.ACasualViewer said: Is Demon Slayer really good? I've kept it on-hold since the first episode because it didn't captivate me as much as Vinland Saga did, also partly because I'm a big fan of Wit Studio's art style and animation.There were a lot of breaks in the show which lowered the hype early on. The show is also not a straight shonen like demon slayer and other shows airing right now. I think the show will be highly rated and fairly popular in the anime community overall but it will never be a big well known show like most popular shonens are. |
| "I think I wanted to attack something. Like betraying people or hurting people. And, well, it's not exactly nice, but hurting the readers too... In all honestly, I feel that's what I really wanted to do. For me, as a reader, when I think, "this manga will remain in my heart," it means, for example, it phenomenally hurt me: It's those kinds of experiences I'm after." - Pajime Hisayama (My favourite hurting author). |
| @Peeti I see... Thanks for the feedback |
I just realized that all of my favorite characters, beside being stunningly beautiful, also happen to be exceptionally skilled murder machines. \('-')/ I'm level on mal-badges. View my badges. |
QuiteNoice said: Thanks for elaborating it in details, you even use my list as reference. I really appreciate it. electromagneto said: Is Demon Slayer really good? ... Based on your anime list, I wouldn't say it's great by your standards. First 7 or so episodes are structured very poorly, the pacing seems off. Characters are very one-dimensional so far, they are quite hit or miss, depending on your tolerance to their quirks. It has some stunningly good shonen moments in the later episodes, however, so I would say it's the kind of anime you don't regret you've watched after a certain point (even though not everything about those moments makes sense, the artistic execution is on point). I'm fairly confident to claim you would ultimately think that Vinland saga is a tier or two above the Demon Slayer, even if you saw the later. Both are audiovisually beautiful, though, Demon Slayer doesn't lack in that department. |
I just realized that all of my favorite characters, beside being stunningly beautiful, also happen to be exceptionally skilled murder machines. \('-')/ I'm level on mal-badges. View my badges. |
EchoAnEternity said: heg said: there is still less than 200K members at the moment now dont get me wrong that kind of number is popular (afaik anything that reach 100K members on an anime entry here on MAL with its current 6 million total users is popular already) but to me its not reaching Attack on Titan levels yet? should they have aired this on CrunchyRoll instead that has like 45million users at the moment instead of Amazon Prime which i do not know how many users it has and probably a lot less than CrunchyRoll have or are there any other reason why its not getting more popular right now? It’s getting overshadowed by KNY and FF. All the great animation and fights are what people are looking for right now it seems. VS is a lot slower paced then both of those shows and people that expect it to be all fighting don’t get hooked and leave.I mean, look at the 2/10 review, it’s almost at the top with 137 people finding it helpful. It shows that VS isn’t meeting a lot of people’s expectations. Also, it doesn’t help that there wasn’t a marketing push by Amazon. They just put it up for people to watch. A lot of people don’t know it even exist, all I see on YouTube are people asking “ what is this called?” , “ Where do I watch this” and “ I didn’t know they were making a Vinland anime”. There are also a lot of people putting it aside and not giving it a chance or putting it on hold. So, I don’t think Vinland is going to be crazy popular. It’s probably gonna stay niche. It might blow up during later episodes or later in the year, who knows. What you said is true, but kinda sad how trash generic shounens like FF and KNY (+bnha, +++fate) get hyped up so much just because animation... @Daniel_Naumov HAH, assuming socitety will develop, it is on a pretty steep downward slope atm.. |
BestBoiErenSep 19, 2019 6:53 PM
| This thread is literally a bunch of crybabies blaming another anime that other people don't like their favorite Japanese cartoon lmfao. |
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