f modern anime fans on Devilman: Crybaby

Apollo_Goddess said:
Also don't start shit like "modern anime fans" when you're barely 18.

Jadow_Valroth said:
You're barely 18 if that.. So you're what...? Questioning the taste of those a few years younger/older then you or what?

People like, what they like, period. Why even concern yourself with it? Like what YOU like and watch what YOU want to watch. What else matters, really?

SigmaticDoc said:

Why do you think that specific portion of anime fans is unable to absorb anything more substantial than the usual seasonal shows and battle shounen?


Also, don't take this too seriously, I'm currently just really excited so I really have no idea what I'm actually trying to prove with this. I just want a discussion on a topic that popped in my mind 2 seconds before I started writing all of this in 2am. Since I do think that plenty of modern anime fans can't understand it, not only Devilman in general, but many anime. They're unable to look into it and read between the lines, as they're used to...bad and generic Light Novel adaptations and basic Battle Shounen anime (not that it's bad, it's just an observation).

PoeticJustice said:
modern anime fans are retarded shit stains. They do not know what they want. They are usually very stupid and say "it is just your opinion" "or get over it when these vermin have kids with that stupid mentality.

Western anime fans are undoubtedly the worst with their poor school system and arrogance. They need everything handed to them especially in anime. They do not understand nuance or subverting expectations. They are really fucking stupid. Devilman is not a hard anime to understand but they come in with their preconceived notions of what an anime is and are so mindboggling retarded that their little peabrains shit themselves when something is different. Truly, this is the tragedy of our times. Fucking Trump and anime fans who cannot think. These are the same fans who shit on evangelion but will like kill la kill or your lie in april. Really makes me sick.

youseiki said:
though he won't call it a masterpiece because of the ending.

hybridial said:
Hey cool, a thread in which I get to talk shit about everything I hate about anime.

I'm probably not by technicality an old school anime fan, I got into it around 2000. On the other hand, my tastes strongly veer that direction and it was Akira and the Devilman OVAs that got me started.

In the times since I really kinda want to disassociate from the idea that I'm an "anime fan" really because the meaning of that term's become absolutely unrecognisable in just a 10 year period, much like anime itself has become unrecognisable from the things that captivated me about it originally.

I just like well done animation, and good genre fiction storytelling. Some animes definitely fit that, most don't.

Some make me question what the point of life is, like why Death Note is considered anything more than an abominable childish hackfest, or that moe does anything than utterly render it impossible to tell an interesting story because it simply cannot be done in that visual style with that level of pandering.

I'm not surprised Devilman is too nuanced for people used to that level of material. Even though Devilman is not very subtle. I'd maybe say it's really NOT subtle but I've seen Jojo's Bizzare Adventure. Well I tried to. That was a level of non-subtlety I could not take. It kinda made me appreciate what little subtlety Go Nagai is capable of. :P

I know you can say stuff like "Like what you like and don't let other people's opinions bother you" and the thing is, I'm not quite angry with people.

But I am somewhat bitter about just how drastically things change, about how there's almost nothing made in a style that I feel I can respect anymore. I guess that's why, though as time passed I feel inclined to be more critical to Devilman Crybaby for some real definite flaws both in how it misinterpreted some of the source material and some flaws of it's own.

It is 10/10 compared to most of the shit I seen now. In fact, it might as well be a 100/10.



WHich shows Pewdiepie can't get anything right. There's some nuances lost a bit in Crybaby's take on the ending, but Devilman in general is a masterpiece almost completely because of its ending, and to say otherwise would be to fundamentally misunderstand the entire point of the story.

hybridial said:
Hey cool, a thread in which I get to talk shit about everything I hate about anime.

I'm probably not by technicality an old school anime fan, I got into it around 2000. On the other hand, my tastes strongly veer that direction and it was Akira and the Devilman OVAs that got me started.

In the times since I really kinda want to disassociate from the idea that I'm an "anime fan" really because the meaning of that term's become absolutely unrecognisable in just a 10 year period, much like anime itself has become unrecognisable from the things that captivated me about it originally.

I just like well done animation, and good genre fiction storytelling. Some animes definitely fit that, most don't.

Some make me question what the point of life is, like why Death Note is considered anything more than an abominable childish hackfest, or that moe does anything than utterly render it impossible to tell an interesting story because it simply cannot be done in that visual style with that level of pandering.

I'm not surprised Devilman is too nuanced for people used to that level of material. Even though Devilman is not very subtle. I'd maybe say it's really NOT subtle but I've seen Jojo's Bizzare Adventure. Well I tried to. That was a level of non-subtlety I could not take. It kinda made me appreciate what little subtlety Go Nagai is capable of. :P

I know you can say stuff like "Like what you like and don't let other people's opinions bother you" and the thing is, I'm not quite angry with people.

But I am somewhat bitter about just how drastically things change, about how there's almost nothing made in a style that I feel I can respect anymore. I guess that's why, though as time passed I feel inclined to be more critical to Devilman Crybaby for some real definite flaws both in how it misinterpreted some of the source material and some flaws of it's own.

It is 10/10 compared to most of the shit I seen now. In fact, it might as well be a 100/10.



WHich shows Pewdiepie can't get anything right. There's some nuances lost a bit in Crybaby's take on the ending, but Devilman in general is a masterpiece almost completely because of its ending, and to say otherwise would be to fundamentally misunderstand the entire point of the story.

avory said:
From what I've read about the ending of Crybaby, which is the stuff mentioned here, it has a very different ending than the manga. Instead of saying this is the end of humanity, the end of God's favorite creation, and the end of essentially everything morally right in the universe, it says that there's a bunch of other planets and this'll just continue on and on, one planet starting to nurture life as one planet is destroyed by the Devil.
But I haven't finished the show yet so I wouldn't know for sure.

I would also call the ending amazing, but I wouldn't call how suddendly we got there amazing, it felt kind of rushed. Amazing manga though.

Blue_Pie_Ninja said:

Those people are wrong.

Blue_Pie_Ninja said:
And people who don't like things like Jojo obviously don't understand tropes, and why it's so over the top. That's the charm of it, the irony is what makes it good, like how One Punch Man is playing off how MCs are weak as shit in Shounens and eventually become OP to defeat their latest enemy.

hybridial said:

WHich shows Pewdiepie can't get anything right. There's some nuances lost a bit in Crybaby's take on the ending, but Devilman in general is a masterpiece almost completely because of its ending, and to say otherwise would be to fundamentally misunderstand the entire point of the story.

youseiki said:

He talked about the Manga having a better ending than the anime, that's why he won't call the anime a masterpiece, but since he made a review about it, then Crybaby for him is good overall.

avory said:
just watched the first episode. For now it lacks what made the old one great, the gore is very cartoony and doesn't make me feel disgusted, the sabbath party is more of a drug orgy than the ultra-violence waiting to happen it used to feel like, the one person we're introduced to at the party is pretty nice (and just my type ^^), and the build up for the party is pretty lame, Ryou doesn't give some of his best lines from the trilogy or the manga, and Akira doesn't get his strong moments.
It's just a bad version of both the manga and the old trilogy.

hybridial said:


Okay, then there is hope, even for him, heh. Yeah Crybaby's ending did miss some of the more important things. I'm inclined to say Crybaby had a better middle than the manga but the manga had a better opening and ending.

And for Sirene specifically the Demonbird OVA is by far the most awesome rendition of her.

avory said:
just watched the first episode. For now it lacks what made the old one great, the gore is very cartoony and doesn't make me feel disgusted, the sabbath party is more of a drug orgy than the ultra-violence waiting to happen it used to feel like, the one person we're introduced to at the party is pretty nice (and just my type ^^), and the build up for the party is pretty lame, Ryou doesn't give some of his best lines from the trilogy or the manga, and Akira doesn't get his strong moments.
It's just a bad version of both the manga and the old trilogy.

Cyborg_Icarus29 said:

Dude this is a Yuasa show,yuasa doesn't make typical "faithfull" 1:1 adaptations. His shows are "loose adaptations" and he has his own style so don't compare it to the source material if you want to fully enjoy it. You should judge it based on its' own merits.

Apollo_Goddess said:
This is way you need to think and breathe even a little bit before typing. There are so many that like the show that I find it that you're actually trying to go off it's fame for right now. (Let's be honest here and say it's not a masterpiece and the popularity will fade a way in about a month.) Also don't start shit like "modern anime fans" when you're barely 18. "Very Realistic Sexualization." You make me laugh when I remember scenes from the show. I find it that you're triggered for some reason from the people who don't like the show for reasons or say it's fine but has flaws.

Hellspawn28 said:
I seen some people that got gross out by the violence in the show, but it seems like most people are fine with it. Most of the word of mouth for the show has been good. We are lucky to have a Devilman anime that is being well like by old and modern anime fans with it currently having a 8.05/10 rating on MAL.

While do think some people should not be shock by things as as adult, you can't make everyone happy. Also you are born in 2000, you are the same age group as the modern anime fans now. I was watching way before you where born.

youseiki said:

He talked about the Manga having a better ending than the anime, that's why he won't call the anime a masterpiece, but since he made a review about it, then Crybaby for him is good overall.

Jadow_Valroth said:
@SigmaticDoc I suppose some logic is needed because I don't even understand what you're trying to imply.

My WHOLE point was that the entire thing was pointless. The essay long rants are RIDICULOUS when it comes to questioning why people other people like something. That shit doesn't effect you, does it? No.

However I think it's fine to tell others why YOU did or didn't like something. But just because they disagree, or like something you don't, it doesn't make it wrong.

And as far as "Modern Anime Fans" go, if you're younger then the chances ARE you got into it by watching something newer. That's all I'm saying. But whatever the case. Hi doesn't matter, new anime, old anime. Look at my watched anime. I just find whatever appeals to me. I don't mind if the anime has shit animation if the story is good and it entertains.

Anyway, I'm turning into my own essay rant, so whatever. It doesn't bother me so I'm out. Just watch what makes you entertained and don't worry about the bullshit.

Cyborg_Icarus29 said:

Dude this is a Yuasa show,yuasa doesn't make typical "faithfull" 1:1 adaptations. His shows are "loose adaptations" and he has his own style so don't compare it to the source material if you want to fully enjoy it. You should judge it based on its' own merits.

PoeticJustice said:
modern anime fans are retarded shit stains. They do not know what they want. They are usually very stupid and say "it is just your opinion" "or get over it when these vermin have kids with that stupid mentality.

Western anime fans are undoubtedly the worst with their poor school system and arrogance. They need everything handed to them especially in anime. They do not understand nuance or subverting expectations. They are really fucking stupid. Devilman is not a hard anime to understand but they come in with their preconceived notions of what an anime is and are so mindboggling retarded that their little peabrains shit themselves when something is different. Truly, this is the tragedy of our times. Fucking Trump and anime fans who cannot think. These are the same fans who shit on evangelion but will like kill la kill or your lie in april. Really makes me sick.

Jadow_Valroth said:
I typed out a long ass reply on my phone then accidentally hit the back button twice trying to get rid of the keyboard to hit post.. FML. Anyway. People mostly say modern anime fan referring to age and based on the guys post that's how I took it. And the fact that even if he got into anime at 10 years old, which I highly doubt, that would be 2010.

Anyway, who cares. Enjoy what YOU enjoy, but if you don't like something, don't get upset if others disagree.

SigmaticDoc said:


And even then, this is the only Devilman adaptation that has come so close to the source material in terms of faithfulness.
And honestly, I think the party was executed better in Crybaby, the original didn't feel like a party at all, it had that retro voice acting being emphasized and Ryo starting to slash people really out of nowhere. It had a better flow in Crybaby.

avory said:
The Yuasa party felt more like partying teenagers who just wanted to have a good time and break free from their normal lives for a bit, D:tB had older lawless gang members and felt more serious, Yuasa made the whole thing feel silly. D:tB had already established Ryou very well as a character at this point, Crybaby had him as something closer to comic relief, especially since the burning alive scene held no emotional weight in Crybaby, it was supposed to be his father, and he was supposed to tell it while looking troubled.
It wasn't even proven to Akira that demons existed when the party started, Akira is just such an idiot in this version while in D:tB he'd already shown resolve, adaptibility and intelligence, I can't care about this version of Akira yet we're already at the part where he's undergoing the most drastic change in his life.
The response from the hot girl that gave Akira drugs is very sweet and caring, there is no real reason for her to be the first to turn, while D:tB showed her as making fun of Akira and laughing at his pain.

The artstyle didn't do it for me, but that's really up to opinion.

It was a bad first episode, especially for someone like me who's a fan of the previous material coming into it. I don't know my opinion on the show as a whole but I know it didn't have a great start.

SigmaticDoc said:


Each to their own I guess, I definitely prefer a lot of Crybaby's moments over the manga, but the manga definitely was fantastic too.
I pretty much felt that Yuasa's Sabbath party was more of a low-life underground party, not teenagers, etc. I guess it's up to perspective.
And Crybaby's Akira felt more like he just didn't know what he's getting into and just did it because he wants to help his best friend.
The girls response wasn't really caring, she just did it because she can and because she's loose, at least that's the impression I got of it, she wasn't an asshole like D:tB but I feel like it had more of a result when it didn't go the typical ''hah serves you right'' treatment''.
She was shown to be a cunt anyways, when she laughed at Akira and Ryo getting beat up by the rest, before she transformed.

And I love the art style, really reminds me of early 2000s stylized gritty anime for some reason.

But yeah, each to their own.

SigmaticDoc said:


I was mostly trying to say, how come so many people aren't able to understand it when it's not complex at all.
Many people were unable to get the ending, I've had to explain what actually happened to some people, even though there was so much clarity to it, they even foreshadowed it at the very start of the first episode.
I'm not bothered by those that don't like it and it's not for them, they can do their own thing, they're people who wouldn't have liked it in the first place, it's those modern anime fans that did in fact get into it and enjoyed it but didn't get 90% of it because they're not used to being perceptive in anime, they're not used to depth or anything remotely subtle. That's what bothers me pretty much.

And no, it doesn't affect me, nothing on this forum does, neither does it affect you, nothing on this forum does. So stop with the ''smart and woke'' shit, there's nothing wrong with having a discussion for the sake of having one.

And stop assuming shit, I got into anime by watching Fullmetal Alchemist 2003. Like, it's pathetic people even care about age when it comes to being a retro or a modern anime fan.

Apollo_Goddess said:
Wow We have a master of perception overhere. Let me guess, you have perception lv 9. You are so perceptive you can spot a sniper over 150 km without binoculars. Lol If your done with your high from the show then and that you "supposedly" like classics then watch Ashita No Joe, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and Dirty Pair. You'll instantly favorite two of three shows from your Crybaby insta fave. Also what kind of rebuttal is that you watches anime at 9 instead of ten do. Makes you seem a bit immature.

Apollo_Goddess said:
Wow We have a master of perception overhere. Let me guess, you have perception lv 9. You are so perceptive you can spot a sniper over 150 km without binoculars. Lol If your done with your high from the show then and that you "supposedly" like classics then watch Ashita No Joe, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and Dirty Pair. You'll instantly favorite two of three shows from your Crybaby insta fave. Also what kind of rebuttal is that you watches anime at 9 instead of ten do. Makes you seem a bit immature.

hybridial said:

I just want to take the story seriously. I want to see the writer take the story seriously. Granted I'm more willing to admit that's my taste than those titles outright sucking but they do absolutely nothing for me.

Devilman isn't going to be for everyone, I can accept that. What it chooses to do and how it goes about it equally, is not for everyone.

But it is for me, I respect the hell out of it, and people trying to claim "oh, this isn't so good" isn't going to change my mind. I don't need to be patronised by that shit, I mean fine, you had issues with it, absolutely fine, you explained them and they make sense and I think you at least did not lack an understanding of the material on a conceptual level. Devilman is one of the things where I kinda don't mind the idea that I am probably a serious fanboy for it.

I guess it comes down to just a different angle. Devilman Crybaby was far from perfect. I like to write stories, I consider writing my passion. And the writer in me certainly feels there's things I'd do differently.

But it was still something that worked for me, properly worked for me, and that's become rare, and so it's a big deal when it happens. Because I'm a really picky bastard who hates almost everything. Especially new shit. :P

SigmaticDoc said:


I just fucking stated when I started watching anime, do I say I started watching from 10 just so somehow it's not ''immature''?

I didn't start from 10 so I won't say 10, the fact you even formed this sentence is borderline retarded and makes you seem, not a bit immature but completely immature.

The fact is, I dropped JoJo on ep. 8, no need to tell me what to watch. I know what to watch.

I've also read the Ashita No Joe manga. The only one I haven't seen is Dirty Pair, and don't really plan to.

avory said:
Just went through a bit of a click spree and found out this might have started with a post GoldNautilus made, but I can't seem to find anything that would deserve such a rant. Did he modify one of his posts to delete what he said or did I just miss his post?