Is Altair the most powerful anime character we have seen yet in any anime? (spoiler)

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firemagnet said:

Freiszcze said:

I don't mean killing her. I mean erasing her from the timeline as a whole. Making her not even appear in the world.

Which Shiki? There are multiple characters from multiple verses with the same name.

[](Void) Shiki Royougi, from Kara no Kyoukai. The third personality of Shiki, which she isn't aware of. Qouting

"Right, that is Shiki's power. Like Fujino she can see channels that normal people can't see, she is able to see the spiral of origin with her eyes. But, I can go even deeper. No... maybe I myself am that spiral."
".... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality."

Sep 8, 2017 4:21 PM

#53

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Freiszcze said:

firemagnet said:

Which Shiki? There are multiple characters from multiple verses with the same name.

[](Void) Shiki Royougi, from Kara no Kyoukai. The third personality of Shiki, which she isn't aware of. Qouting

"Right, that is Shiki's power. Like Fujino she can see channels that normal people can't see, she is able to see the spiral of origin with her eyes. But, I can go even deeper. No... maybe I myself am that spiral."
".... Spiral of origin, its where all cause and effect begin, where everything and nothing exist, that is my true identity. Even though we are just connected, but since I am part of it, I too am an equivocal existence, right? That is why I can do anything..hmm like restructuring the laws governing atomic matter, or go back in time to change the evolution and development of all life, to reconstruct the orders and laws of this world is easy for me too. Not making change to the existing world, but rather annihilate the old one with a new reality."

Obviously Void Shiki would obliterate Altair. She is the avatar of the God of the Nasuverse AKASHA! The at minimum 7th Dimensional God that rules over Fate and all it's other related franchise.

Sep 8, 2017 4:41 PM

#54

Cour_Victor

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Peter16373 said:
Obviously Void Shiki would obliterate Altair. She is the avatar of the God of the Nasuverse AKASHA! The at minimum 7th Dimensional God that rules over Fate and all it's other related franchise.

Altair doesn't belong to that franchise and is not part of it though. How do you think it will even make sense of what she is? Do you think fate explains or contains the blue cubes she is made of or an answer to how to hurt her?
Altair is aware of fiction. If she has her powers not bound she will use them to delete whatever opposes her, and use other means to toy with her opponents if she deems necessary, because it works on a meta level, and it doesn't rely on any lore or backstory to explain it. She just does. That's how holopsicon works. If you put Altair next to an entity from another franchise in fiction, the interaction will register for Altair but not for her opponent. Because her opponent is bound by canon but Altair is bound to all of her creators' imagination.

Cour_VictorSep 8, 2017 4:50 PM

Sep 8, 2017 4:45 PM

#55

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Cour_Victor said:

Peter16373 said:
Obviously Void Shiki would obliterate Altair. She is the avatar of the God of the Nasuverse AKASHA! The at minimum 7th Dimensional God that rules over Fate and all it's other related franchise.

Altair doesn't belong to that franchise and is not part of it though. How do you think it will even make sense of what she is? Do you think fate explains or contains the blue cubes she is made of?
Altair is aware of fiction. If she has her powers not bound she will use them to delete whatever, because it works on a meta level, and it doesn't rely on any lore or backstory to explain it. She just does.

Thing is it's unknown if Altair can affect higher dimensioned beings. Some 4th dimensional beings are weak enough to be affected by most fictional abilities. But others can't be affected unless your hax is strong enough like Sans from Undertale canonically has the power to defeat genocide route Frisk who became a 4th dimensional Multiverse destroying being despite physically being the weakest monster in the whole game.

Peter16373Sep 8, 2017 4:54 PM

Sep 8, 2017 4:56 PM

#56

Cour_Victor

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Peter16373 said:

Cour_Victor said:

Altair doesn't belong to that franchise and is not part of it though. How do you think it will even make sense of what she is? Do you think fate explains or contains the blue cubes she is made of?
Altair is aware of fiction. If she has her powers not bound she will use them to delete whatever, because it works on a meta level, and it doesn't rely on any lore or backstory to explain it. She just does.

Thing is it's unknown if Altair can affect higher dimensioned beings. Some 4th dimensional beings are weak enough to be affected by most fictional abilities. But others can't be affected unless your hax is strong enough like Sans from Undertale canonically has the power to defeat genocide route Frisk who became a 4th dimensional being despite physically being the weakest monster in the whole game.

I think she can make it work as long as she interacts in a physical sense. Holopsicon #n'th movement, dimension shift. It's a meta fictional power. Just pull them on the same plane to have a nice sword battle before you delete them. You know, if someone in Souta's world thought it up she will have it.

Sep 8, 2017 5:36 PM

#57

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Peter16373 said:

Freiszcze said:

[](Void) Shiki Royougi, from Kara no Kyoukai. The third personality of Shiki, which she isn't aware of. Qouting

Obviously Void Shiki would obliterate Altair. She is the avatar of the God of the Nasuverse AKASHA! The at minimum 7th Dimensional God that rules over Fate and all it's other related franchise.

The thing is that Shiki can't affect anything outside of the Nasuverse, since she has no authority over it. It is required to be part of that universe for her to have any affect on it; Mana, Prana, and "the origin" don't exist as far as Altair is concerned, so anything other than common laws such as physics wouldn't have that much of an affect on her, if at all. Further, if that third persona is part of plot development, then Altair can literally isolate her from it, stripping her of her powers. All this is possible, as @Cour_Victor correctly states, precisely because her creators and audience add new powers to her and fundamentally accept or believe that she is capable of doing it. Altair thus operates outside of the rules of any fictional world.

The only reason why Altair isn't able to use her abilities to their maximum in the real world is because that world is the origin point of everything. Its laws are absolute, and can only be stretched so far. Even her abilities, as well as those of the other creations, are normalized or omitted entirely if they are otherwise incompatible.

Even then, the original script, as found here (https://www.sunday-webry.com/events/re_creators_naked/0909/) on the sunday webry site makes it clear that Altair's abilities have no theoretical limit, so long as her audience believes that it's possible and the laws of "our" world are elastic enough; she makes it clear within the script that the bird-cage is nothing more than an incubator for the full extent of her abilities; the moment she is able to exit it, she collides all of the fictional universes, whereupon the inherent contradictions between the various worlds results in mutual and total annihilation.

Sep 8, 2017 6:34 PM

#58

revyHOLiC

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thats why Re:Creators not use real anime like (DBS, OPM, etc) in the show. The fanbase would get triggered, when see their favorite character is defeated so easy by Altair.

Sep 8, 2017 8:49 PM

#59

Chiyousagi

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firemagnet said:

Freiszcze said:
Well, [] Shiki can literally erase her creator, this erasing Altair as well.

Um, given that Altair's creator is already dead....

Effectively, the only way to erase altair would be to, in universe, destroy every single piece of work about her that exists; data, copies, physical backups. Even that might not be enough, as Altair comments in episode 20 that so long as someone is creating something about her, she will continue to exist.

Um, given that Altair's creator is already dead

someone is creating something about her

Erm you don't find your reply contradicting? Anyway altair original creator is dead, and that is what supposedly release her from the restriction of canon. However altair STILL has creator, just LOTS OF THEM.

Honestly someone with memories wiping ability should defeat altair easily, if we are not going the extreme route of planetary destruction(or of cuz if the character is even half smart in re:creators sirius can just do the 9th movement outline origin and weaken altair to her base form). With the so called "audience" that give her "acceptance" either dead or forgotten about altair, best case scenario for altair will be she is reduced to her base form and worst case being completely erased as her existence isn't supported.

The limitless imagination altair is OP without a doubt. But she has a very vulnerable side to her as her OPness directly depends on the acceptance of feeble little humans. Remember again that her base form is not the OP shit she is being portray in episode 20.

Sep 8, 2017 9:14 PM

#60

Jakerams

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A few characters in Medaka Box.

Sep 9, 2017 7:47 AM

#61

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But wait. Akashic Recrods isnt limited to only Nasuverse. It's a concpet which may exist even in our world.

Sep 9, 2017 8:50 AM

#62

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Freiszcze said:
But wait. Akashic Recrods isnt limited to only Nasuverse. It's a concpet which may exist even in our world.

Yes, but there's no guarantee that [character x] has authority over that, either.

Plus, as of episode 21 Altair is officially a god, able to create entire worlds.

Sep 9, 2017 9:33 AM

#63

neonie

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I once had someone tell me that no one could ever possibly beat Saitama.

I wonder if that still holds with Altair.

Sep 9, 2017 9:53 AM

#64

Cour_Victor

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Well, it's official.

Sep 9, 2017 10:22 AM

#65

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Cour_Victor said:
Well, it's official.

Yep, it's official. Altair is explicitly stated to have "infinite power," and performs the feat of crating not one but at least two universes for herself and her creator to continue the cycle of their creative forces infinitely.

Nasuverse character like Gilgamesh giving you trouble? Just port him to Altair's universe, and watch her curbstomp him so hard that he becomes a red stain on the nearest wall.

He can't be linked to the throne of heroes, the root, or the counterforce if he's in an entirely different universe where none of that exists.

Altair is also actively shown to be able to slow down time or speed herself up with relation to the environment. As such, it doesn't matter how fast Gilgamesh is able to go (yes, I'm looking at you, comicvine discussion board), she can just drag him down to her level and go "skdoosh."

Sep 9, 2017 10:27 AM

#66

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neonie said:
I once had someone tell me that no one could ever possibly beat Saitama.

I wonder if that still holds with Altair.

It doesn't. He would last as long as she wants him to, less time if he did anything that threatened Setsuna.

Sep 9, 2017 10:29 AM

#67

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But aren't we missing the point? Altair is also a part of the story, told in Re:Creators, which mean that her, ported into our world alongside Shiki, won't gve her such infinite powers she poses in HER story, and thus giving Shiki upper position.

Sep 9, 2017 10:31 AM

#68

Zapredon

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Can Saitama one hit punch Altair?

But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion.

http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30

It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist.

Sep 9, 2017 10:41 AM

#69

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Freiszcze said:
But aren't we missing the point? Altair is also a part of the story, told in Re:Creators, which mean that her, ported into our world alongside Shiki, won't gve her such infinite powers she poses in HER story, and thus giving Shiki upper position.

If all creations come as they are, then Altair will still have as much power as she is described with in Re:Creators. We saw that very mechanic exercised in Re:Creators itself.

At a raw minimum, she'd be able to drag Shiki into her own universe and curb-stomp her there. Hell, Altair is basically a nastier less emotionally stable Haruhi without the emotional blocks preventing her from using her ability consciously.

Sep 9, 2017 11:19 AM

#70

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If all creations come as they are, then Altair will still have as much power as she is described with in Re:Creators. We saw that very mechanic exercised in Re:Creators itself.

At a raw minimum, she'd be able to drag Shiki into her own universe and curb-stomp her there. Hell, Altair is basically a nastier less emotionally stable Haruhi without the emotional blocks preventing her from using her ability consciously.

But Altair powers are obstructed! She need Creators and approval of creations to use her powers. In last episode her "world-creating" ability was enabled due to audience! So, if she was ported to our world (like other Creations, with power intact) she'd have to gain acceptance once more. All the other Creations were given power a priori, so readers would automatically accept them. In case of Altair, she's obligated to have her powers accepted. And then, we have Shiki which does not poses such obstruction and, as we know, Akashic Record exist in our world as a concept, which means she can reach it. And thus she would erase existence of Altair from this world.

Sep 9, 2017 11:32 AM

#71

DedPanda

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This thread belongs on VS Battles Wiki because I can see it's gonna reach hella cancer in a few hours.

Don't believe the hype.

Sep 9, 2017 11:55 AM

#72

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Zantius said:
This thread belongs on VS Battles Wiki because I can see it's gonna reach hella cancer in a few hours.

I think you mean comicvine. Some of the people there actually think that Dragon Ball can solo most of fiction and other things like that.

Sep 9, 2017 2:35 PM

#73

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Freiszcze said:

If all creations come as they are, then Altair will still have as much power as she is described with in Re:Creators. We saw that very mechanic exercised in Re:Creators itself.

At a raw minimum, she'd be able to drag Shiki into her own universe and curb-stomp her there. Hell, Altair is basically a nastier less emotionally stable Haruhi without the emotional blocks preventing her from using her ability consciously.

But Altair powers are obstructed! She need Creators and approval of creations to use her powers. In last episode her "world-creating" ability was enabled due to audience! So, if she was ported to our world (like other Creations, with power intact) she'd have to gain acceptance once more. All the other Creations were given power a priori, so readers would automatically accept them. In case of Altair, she's obligated to have her powers accepted. And then, we have Shiki which does not poses such obstruction and, as we know, Akashic Record exist in our world as a concept, which means she can reach it. And thus she would erase existence of Altair from this world.

Again, one assumes that the audience is able to see what she is doing or else, as she's operated from the beginning, the fact that she is given a specific power by an artist who exists somewhere in a universe means that she can use it straight away. There was no audience monitoring her when she gained new powers in episodes 10-15, for instance.

So, sorry, you're not getting out of this one with all the Nasuverse BS. At minimum, Altair would fight Shiki to a draw. At a maximum, she'd be able to drag Shiki out of her own universe and into one where Shiki would have no connection to mythic concepts. In which case Altair would paste her, along with any Nasuverse character.

As of this episode, Altair is explicitly one of the most, if not the most powerful characters in Anime, standing on a pedestal that she shares with Haruhi and a few others.

Sep 9, 2017 2:37 PM

#74

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Peter16373 said:

Zantius said:
This thread belongs on VS Battles Wiki because I can see it's gonna reach hella cancer in a few hours.

I think you mean comicvine. Some of the people there actually think that Dragon Ball Gilgamesh or another Nasuverse character can solo most of fiction and other things like that.

Fixed That For You.

Sep 9, 2017 2:40 PM

#75

DedPanda

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Peter16373 said:

Zantius said:
This thread belongs on VS Battles Wiki because I can see it's gonna reach hella cancer in a few hours.

I think you mean comicvine. Some of the people there actually think that Dragon Ball can solo most of fiction and other things like that.

I just died inside

Don't believe the hype.

Sep 9, 2017 2:54 PM

#76

RockerXD

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Super TTGL is leagues above altair by sheer destructive force and hax

firemagnet said:

Freiszcze said:
Well, [] Shiki can literally erase her creator, this erasing Altair as well.

Um, given that Altair's creator is already dead....

Effectively, the only way to erase altair would be to, in universe, destroy every single piece of work about her that exists; data, copies, physical backups. Even that might not be enough, as Altair comments in episode 20 that so long as someone is creating something about her, she will continue to exist.

Not too versed in KnK, but iirc, she can erase concepts

Sep 9, 2017 2:59 PM

#77

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firemagnet said:

Freiszcze said:

But Altair powers are obstructed! She need Creators and approval of creations to use her powers. In last episode her "world-creating" ability was enabled due to audience! So, if she was ported to our world (like other Creations, with power intact) she'd have to gain acceptance once more. All the other Creations were given power a priori, so readers would automatically accept them. In case of Altair, she's obligated to have her powers accepted. And then, we have Shiki which does not poses such obstruction and, as we know, Akashic Record exist in our world as a concept, which means she can reach it. And thus she would erase existence of Altair from this world.

Again, one assumes that the audience is able to see what she is doing or else, as she's operated from the beginning, the fact that she is given a specific power by an artist who exists somewhere in a universe means that she can use it straight away. There was no audience monitoring her when she gained new powers in episodes 10-15, for instance.

So, sorry, you're not getting out of this one with all the Nasuverse BS. At minimum, Altair would fight Shiki to a draw. At a maximum, she'd be able to drag Shiki out of her own universe and into one where Shiki would have no connection to mythic concepts. In which case Altair would paste her, along with any Nasuverse character.

As of this episode, Altair is explicitly one of the most, if not the most powerful characters in Anime, standing on a pedestal that she shares with Haruhi and a few others.

You didn't get the part with "she's obstructed by the audience"? Without them, either cheering on her or giving her powers,she's powerless which doesn't apply to Shiki if they were to meet in our World, so she would win. And in Altair's world there is concept of Akashic Records which mean Void Shiki can access it, thus duel would not even happen, because Void Shiki as an omnipotent being can change past and future while being "in present", which mean she would know of Altair and prevent her creation.

We're basically making one mistake - not specifing where their duel might happen.

Altair is surely very powerful, among strongest ones, but we cant get overwhelmed by "wow factory".

Sep 9, 2017 5:25 PM

#78

ZBlastHistory

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Sep 2015

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Japan already create a lot of infinity power for almost anything here3 example.

This thing do not hesitate to wipe out all life on universe if some adult life tried to kill a young life

Even Key have this guy's last form can do anything with cost of his owners lifespan

And this guy's magic can do anything

Into the Internet!

Sep 9, 2017 5:41 PM

#79

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Freiszcze said:

You didn't get the part with "she's obstructed by the audience"? Without them, either cheering on her or giving her powers,she's powerless which doesn't apply to Shiki if they were to meet in our World, so she would win. And in Altair's world there is concept of Akashic Records which mean Void Shiki can access it, thus duel would not even happen, because Void Shiki as an omnipotent being can change past and future while being "in present", which mean she would know of Altair and prevent her creation.

We're basically making one mistake - not specifing where their duel might happen.

Altair is surely very powerful, among strongest ones, but we cant get overwhelmed by "wow factory".

Again, you're missing on the fact that:

a) altair had significant power even before the audience boosted her. They're not blocking her in any way.

b) whoever said the universe of Re:Creators specifically. What about one of the universes that Altair created in episode 21?

The problem that Shiki has against Altair is that Altair can simply drag her into a universe of her own design where such concepts don't exist. On a fundamental level, Altair is more powerful than Shiki, since Shiki's abilities only apply if a world has the same concepts as the Nasuverse that Shiki originates from. Hell, if Shiki were to attempt to fight in Souta's universe and attempted to use time as a weapon, the universe would boot her out or she'd end up destroying the whole thing since time manipulation and matter manipulation on that scale violate the laws of the Re:Creators "reality" universe, just as Setsuna said.

Plus, the universe tree for fiction looks a bit like a tree diagram, only with a million single points with no direct connection to reality. This includes the "reality" represented by Souta's universe, of which Altair's universes in episode 21 are parallel to.

Essentially, Altair has a choice of where she fights Shiki. Shiki does not have a choice of where (or when) she fights Altair, as Shiki and other Nasuverse (including the fate series characters) are unable to move outside of their own section of universes. The same goes for other "living god" characters such as Haruhi; they have influence over their world or worlds, and that's it.

Plus, Shiki fundamentally operates on concepts of mana and prana for manipulation, as does the concept of the root, on which she relies as the "personality" of the root.

She basically wouldn't be able to time-travel or use any of her more serious abilities, since those would require access to her version of the root, which wouldn't be possible outside of the Nasuverse set of worlds or dimensions.

Sep 9, 2017 6:00 PM

#80

Pipe

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Well, this kind of never-ending topics could be found on several other forums and in the superheroes as well. It is like saying that Thor is stronger than Superman, it is the same thing of DC vs. Marvel and now on anime series.

I will answer in the same way as I used to respond in that ... forums. The worlds are different. Altair is a Goddess in her universe but in other will be an average person, so the comparison is useless.

Sep 9, 2017 7:15 PM

#81

stone616

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Pipe said:
Well, this kind of never-ending topics could be found on several other forums and in the superheroes as well. It is like saying that Thor is stronger than Superman, it is the same thing of DC vs. Marvel and now on anime series.

I will answer in the same way as I used to respond in that ... forums. The worlds are different. Altair is a Goddess in her universe but in other will be an average person, so the comparison is useless.

Someone killed her and she reversed the cause and effect so they ended up killing themselves. She was essentially unbeatable. Everything she did, every fight she was in was just for show because at any given point she could have killed anyone she wished.

As we saw in this last episode she was so powerful the writers of her story couldn't even properly defeat her so they just gave her a cop out happy ending and had her walk off in the middle of a major battle.

Sep 9, 2017 7:41 PM

#82

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Pipe said:
Well, this kind of never-ending topics could be found on several other forums and in the superheroes as well. It is like saying that Thor is stronger than Superman, it is the same thing of DC vs. Marvel and now on anime series.

I will answer in the same way as I used to respond in that ... forums. The worlds are different. Altair is a Goddess in her universe but in other will be an average person, so the comparison is useless.

That's essentially the point I was trying to make; If Altair can pull a given character into her universe, she's quite literally god. One Caveat, however, is that being based on our world, Re:Creators explicitly contains, and is shown to contain pretty much every anime season that existed in our world except for the period between August 2016-->July 2017 (Fall 2016, Winter 2017, Spring 2017, Summer 2017). In episode 7, we are shown a desk full of other authors' works, including Hiroe's own release of Black Lagoon. Effectively, so long as the anime series, manga or game exists before the Fall 2016 season or Q3 of the annual business cycle, Altair pastes them; she has the power to access their worlds and, as shown in Episodes 1 & 5, she has the ability to access their worlds and use her powers there at will.

Shiki (1990s)? Pasted.

Gilgamesh (also 1990s-2014)? reverse-mongreled.

Saitama (OPM) (2015)? Gets and loses the ultimate fight of his life, like he's always wanted.

Naruto/Boruto/Bleach/[insert shonen here] (2000-2016)? Might as well throw in the towel.

Evangelion (1996-2015)? No third impact here.

Gurren-lagan? Galaxy-sized mech can do squat.

and on and on, since she technically has access to these universes natively from within her own universe.

firemagnetSep 9, 2017 7:52 PM

Sep 9, 2017 7:54 PM

#83

redcobra

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535

she is overpower here is why if you don't know this basicly you not watch everything or not watch the anime.

how to explain lets bring saitama, goku and sasuke here as enemy :
Saitama :
1. Holopsicon reality change : she can change the fact who get hurt who is not, if saitama using consecutive normal punch or strong punch, no you cannot hurt her instead saitama will get hurt by his own attack, how about saitama serious punch ? it will get neutralize with holopsicon zero and nothing happen, hosipcon zero also can make any character become weak anytime she want.

so basicly saitama cannot do anything to her at all you cannot punch her or even using long range serious punch, she will neutralize it and maybe warp behind saitama and kill it.

Goku
2. Goku again he cannot hurt altair, direct punch or kick from goku to altair will hurt him self, kamehameha and all his ki attack will neutrallize with holosipcon zero so goku will lose and died.

also remember holosipcon zero also can remove character power imagine saitama become weak just like he before become hero also for goku lose his super saiyan / super saiyan god because holosipcon zero, goku become weak and useless.

so both goku and saitama cannot kill altair.

sasuke from naruto series :
3. altair weakness is setsuna in episode 21, you can just use sharingan and give altair enless dream or illusion so in this state altair lose.

if you guys still argue who is strongest charater in all anime just bring GODLY DEATH NOTE write all your favorite anime characters name and just die. no one beat DEATH NOTE.

problem solved physical attack and energy attack cannot kill altair but magical sharingan death note stuff skill kill her.

okay ? understand ? also both setsuna and altair now a god because they both say it [ episode 21], and altair just can create a world anytime she want[ episode 21 ]. that is serious legit god tier stuff there.

redcobraSep 9, 2017 11:38 PM

Sep 9, 2017 8:08 PM

#84

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redcobra said:
she is overpower here is why if you don't know this basicly you not watch everything or not watch the anime.

how to explain lets bring saitama, goku and sasuke here as enemy :
Saitama :
1. Holopsicon reality change : she can change the fact who get hurt who is not, if saitama using consecutive normal punch or strong punch no you cannot hurt her instead saitama will get hurt by his own attack, how about saitama serious punch ? it will get neutralize but holopsicon zero and nothing happen.

so basicly saitama cannot do anything to her at all you cannot punch her or even using long range serious punch, she will neutralize it and maybe warp behind saitama and kill it.

Goku
2. Goku again he cannot hurt altair, direct punch or kick from goku to altair will hurt him self, kamehameha and all his ki attack will neutrallize with holosipcon zero so goku will lose and died.

also remember holosipcon zero also can remove character power imagine saitama become weak just like he before become hero also for goku lose his super saiyan / super saiyan god because holosipcon zero, goku become weak and useless.

so both goku and saitama cannot kill altair.

sasuke from naruto series :
3. altair weakness is setsuna in episode 21, you can just use sharingan and give altair enless dream or illusion so in this state altair lose.

if you guys still argue who is strongest charater in all anime just bring GODLY DEATH NOTE write all your favorite anime characters name and just die. no one beat DEATH NOTE.

problem solved physical attack and energy attack cannot kill altair but magical sharingan death note stuff skill kill her.

okay ? understand ? also both setsuna and altair now a god because they both say it [ episode 21], and altair just can create a world anytime she want[ episode 21 ]. that is serious legit god tier stuff there.

Goku and Saitama has no attacks that could even damage her in the first place.

For Sasuke thats only if he even knows about this weakness and if Genjutsu even affects Altair in the first place. Otherwise he might just get reverted back to his orignal beginning of series self by Outline Origin.

Death Note can cause people to die but anybody that can regenerate from death can nullify its ability and Altair is able to regenerate from much more than just death but existence erasure as well.

Sep 9, 2017 8:26 PM

#85

john985

Offline

Aug 2011

58

firemagnet said:

Freiszcze said:

But Altair powers are obstructed! She need Creators and approval of creations to use her powers. In last episode her "world-creating" ability was enabled due to audience! So, if she was ported to our world (like other Creations, with power intact) she'd have to gain acceptance once more. All the other Creations were given power a priori, so readers would automatically accept them. In case of Altair, she's obligated to have her powers accepted. And then, we have Shiki which does not poses such obstruction and, as we know, Akashic Record exist in our world as a concept, which means she can reach it. And thus she would erase existence of Altair from this world.

Again, one assumes that the audience is able to see what she is doing or else, as she's operated from the beginning, the fact that she is given a specific power by an artist who exists somewhere in a universe means that she can use it straight away. There was no audience monitoring her when she gained new powers in episodes 10-15, for instance.

So, sorry, you're not getting out of this one with all the Nasuverse BS. At minimum, Altair would fight Shiki to a draw. At a maximum, she'd be able to drag Shiki out of her own universe and into one where Shiki would have no connection to mythic concepts. In which case Altair would paste her, along with any Nasuverse character.

As of this episode, Altair is explicitly one of the most, if not the most powerful characters in Anime, standing on a pedestal that she shares with Haruhi and a few others.

Shiki can erase the action of Altair before she can do anything, just like how Shiki erase the future.

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Sep 9, 2017 8:37 PM

#86

Chiyousagi

Offline

Jun 2013

147

stone616 said:

Pipe said:
Well, this kind of never-ending topics could be found on several other forums and in the superheroes as well. It is like saying that Thor is stronger than Superman, it is the same thing of DC vs. Marvel and now on anime series.

I will answer in the same way as I used to respond in that ... forums. The worlds are different. Altair is a Goddess in her universe but in other will be an average person, so the comparison is useless.

Someone killed her and she reversed the cause and effect so they ended up killing themselves. She was essentially unbeatable. Everything she did, every fight she was in was just for show because at any given point she could have killed anyone she wished.

As we saw in this last episode she was so powerful the writers of her story couldn't even properly defeat her so they just gave her a cop out happy ending and had her walk off in the middle of a major battle.

The thing is OP and unbeatable is slightly different thing. Altair is extremely OP cuz of her limitless. However the source of her limitless is also her weakness.

If one is being practical and know where she got her source of mugen from, lots of character can beat altair. Just need to do something to her "worshipers" and sever the connection.

Put it another way, altair isn't created OP by sestuna. Altair is the chosen one and thus become OP in the setting of re:creators.

You can swap altair with any character from re:creators and have the story claim that and that chosen character will also be the OP altair right now. For example Meteora could have gotten acceptance and become OP too. The reason the other creations didn't is because they are copyright character(whereas altair isn't) Really it could have just been any free lance's character if the design was more popular then altair.

tl:dr Altair character setting clearly define her OPness and also weakness. Anyone can strip ability from altair. Although altair herself has the ability to do so too, but other characters doesn't specifically need to possess such ability. Character need to protect themselves from altair, but altair need to protect "HER CREATORS".

Sep 9, 2017 8:43 PM

#87

Chiyousagi

Offline

Jun 2013

147

firemagnet said:

Freiszcze said:

You didn't get the part with "she's obstructed by the audience"? Without them, either cheering on her or giving her powers,she's powerless which doesn't apply to Shiki if they were to meet in our World, so she would win. And in Altair's world there is concept of Akashic Records which mean Void Shiki can access it, thus duel would not even happen, because Void Shiki as an omnipotent being can change past and future while being "in present", which mean she would know of Altair and prevent her creation.

We're basically making one mistake - not specifing where their duel might happen.

Altair is surely very powerful, among strongest ones, but we cant get overwhelmed by "wow factory".

a) altair had significant power even before the audience boosted her. They're not blocking her in any way.

You are right that the audience isn't blocking her power. However the audience is technically her "heart". Or if you rather, the reason of her existence. Kill ALL the audience, you kill altair. Or just make them forgot altair is enough.

Sep 9, 2017 8:47 PM

#88

DarkwindJR

Offline

May 2013

649

She definitely one of the strongest non-world breaking characters but still beatable if any of the weaker characters have a similar ability to one of the 66th movements of her holopsicon like Magane from Re:Creators, Misogi Kumagawa from Medaka Box. Most Powerful doesn't really mean unbeatable.
It's dumb to think any of the Fate/Characters or To Aru Series or Kara no Kyoukai can beat her. Not even Arjuna or Gilgamesh would stand a chance since they may have to power to destroy all creation but 4 of the 66 movements could reduce that power to nothing. Even Void Shiki and Arcueid doesn't stand a chance. Even Kusanagi Godou would need to french kiss a hundred girls to even stand a chance.

DarkwindJRSep 9, 2017 9:00 PM

Sep 9, 2017 8:57 PM

#89

DarkwindJR

Offline

May 2013

649

Peter16373 said:

redcobra said:
she is overpower here is why if you don't know this basicly you not watch everything or not watch the anime.

how to explain lets bring saitama, goku and sasuke here as enemy :
Saitama :
1. Holopsicon reality change : she can change the fact who get hurt who is not, if saitama using consecutive normal punch or strong punch no you cannot hurt her instead saitama will get hurt by his own attack, how about saitama serious punch ? it will get neutralize but holopsicon zero and nothing happen.

so basicly saitama cannot do anything to her at all you cannot punch her or even using long range serious punch, she will neutralize it and maybe warp behind saitama and kill it.

Goku
2. Goku again he cannot hurt altair, direct punch or kick from goku to altair will hurt him self, kamehameha and all his ki attack will neutrallize with holosipcon zero so goku will lose and died.

also remember holosipcon zero also can remove character power imagine saitama become weak just like he before become hero also for goku lose his super saiyan / super saiyan god because holosipcon zero, goku become weak and useless.

so both goku and saitama cannot kill altair.

sasuke from naruto series :
3. altair weakness is setsuna in episode 21, you can just use sharingan and give altair enless dream or illusion so in this state altair lose.

if you guys still argue who is strongest charater in all anime just bring GODLY DEATH NOTE write all your favorite anime characters name and just die. no one beat DEATH NOTE.

problem solved physical attack and energy attack cannot kill altair but magical sharingan death note stuff skill kill her.

okay ? understand ? also both setsuna and altair now a god because they both say it [ episode 21], and altair just can create a world anytime she want[ episode 21 ]. that is serious legit god tier stuff there.

Goku and Saitama has no attacks that could even damage her in the first place.

For Sasuke thats only if he even knows about this weakness and if Genjutsu even affects Altair in the first place. Otherwise he might just get reverted back to his orignal beginning of series self by Outline Origin.

Death Note can cause people to die but anybody that can regenerate from death can nullify its ability and Altair is able to regenerate from much more than just death but existence erasure as well.

I doubt a Genjutsu would work on someone who can see the very fabric of time space and reality. She'd see right through it. Anything short of the Izanami and Izanagi wouldn't even make her flinch lol
As far as I know the Death Note only works on humans, so none of the most powerful characters in existence would be affected.

DarkwindJRSep 10, 2017 4:57 AM

Sep 9, 2017 9:18 PM

#90

Kaiser-chan

Offline

Nov 2011

14739

I think Naruto can beat her by just talking to her now.

Sep 9, 2017 11:35 PM

#91

renzospark

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Aug 2015

1303

ShiningLugia said:
I don't know if she is the most powerful anime character, but I really want to see her fight with Saiki Kusuo.

Me too, Saiki is so far the strongest character i've ever seen.

Sep 9, 2017 11:36 PM

#92

dasprn

Offline

Feb 2014

2099

Only Setsuna can defeat her.
Haters don't understand how much infinite Holopscion is!

When someone asks me why I like anime, I'd say Just Because.

Sep 10, 2017 11:01 AM

#93

Offline

Jul 2014

657

john985 said:

firemagnet said:

Again, one assumes that the audience is able to see what she is doing or else, as she's operated from the beginning, the fact that she is given a specific power by an artist who exists somewhere in a universe means that she can use it straight away. There was no audience monitoring her when she gained new powers in episodes 10-15, for instance.

So, sorry, you're not getting out of this one with all the Nasuverse BS. At minimum, Altair would fight Shiki to a draw. At a maximum, she'd be able to drag Shiki out of her own universe and into one where Shiki would have no connection to mythic concepts. In which case Altair would paste her, along with any Nasuverse character.

As of this episode, Altair is explicitly one of the most, if not the most powerful characters in Anime, standing on a pedestal that she shares with Haruhi and a few others.

Shiki can erase the action of Altair before she can do anything, just like how Shiki erase the future.

In which case they don't fight at all, so it's a moot point.

Sep 10, 2017 11:16 AM

#94

You

Offline

Apr 2015

5604

Where's my Kemono-dono???

Sep 10, 2017 1:47 PM

#95

Skilltag

Offline

Sep 2017

1

Well I personally don't think she is the strongest anime character of all time. Of course, she is nearly omnipotent and would destroy everybody who (just) is strong in terms of raw power or normal abilities like Saitama, Goku, Tatsuya, Gilgamesh, Meliodas or Naruto. But we all have seen that she has to summon a sword and make a sound with it on the "machinegun" (or what it really is xD) to use her holopsicon, which seems to be omnipotent. (Think you got it :)
But the fact is, there are several other characters out there which are also all mighty gods or some one-shot characters like Shisui from Naruto. (Or maybe Lelouch...) He just has to use Kotoamatsukami/Geass and Altair is instant his slave or whatever he wants to... To give another example, Yuu Otoasaka from Charlotte (or several other characters with abilities like him) can simply steal her Powers and use them against her...
So all in all I think Altair is great, and absolutely one of the most powerful anime characters who have ever existed and I also really love her as a villain, her well build up, her character and her motives to fight. But my answer is still the same; she is not the most powerful anime character.

PS: (don't think there will ever be one, lol)

Sep 10, 2017 2:00 PM

#96

LobsterRyoma

Offline

Sep 2009

415

john985 said:

firemagnet said:

Again, one assumes that the audience is able to see what she is doing or else, as she's operated from the beginning, the fact that she is given a specific power by an artist who exists somewhere in a universe means that she can use it straight away. There was no audience monitoring her when she gained new powers in episodes 10-15, for instance.

So, sorry, you're not getting out of this one with all the Nasuverse BS. At minimum, Altair would fight Shiki to a draw. At a maximum, she'd be able to drag Shiki out of her own universe and into one where Shiki would have no connection to mythic concepts. In which case Altair would paste her, along with any Nasuverse character.

As of this episode, Altair is explicitly one of the most, if not the most powerful characters in Anime, standing on a pedestal that she shares with Haruhi and a few others.

Shiki can erase the action of Altair before she can do anything, just like how Shiki erase the future.

Actually I'll tell you all which Nasuverse character is the perfect counter to Altair.

It's Thomas Edison. The one from Grand Order. His noble phantasm erodes people's faith in mysterious things... which is the exact faith that Altair needs to power her immeasurable powers.

Sep 10, 2017 4:12 PM

#97