| When an anime character is created, is part of the creator's consciousness put into that character, and the character thinks everything he is experiencing is real? If yes, then how does it work? Is the character only conscious of the frames that are currently being created? Is the character conscious whenever the anime is watched? Or does the character get a mind of its own, after the anime is finished he lives his own life, which the creator is oblivious to. Or something else? |
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| It's not that uncommon for creators to interject a part of themselves into their creations. |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
Isn't this kind of like asking if toys are conscious honestly? |
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| Well sort of, but toys don't do anything. |
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UnpopularAnime said: But toys do what they are designed to do so they certainly do something just like how characters act the way they are written to actWell sort of, but toys don't do anything. |
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I'm enjoying the Jaden Smith vibe but |
| They are if you believe hard enough, OP. |
Lord_Sithis said: nope! they can talk to you if you're dreaming at night. well, I guess you experience like that too heheheheI like this. But anime is just a drawing. A drawing doesn't have consciousness or a mind. |
The world is cruel, ugly and pitiful. Let's watch anime and make it colorful |
| OP, you need to sleep now... I beg of you, it's bad for your health... |
| If you apply mysticism into your beliefs. they're alive :D |
The world is cruel, ugly and pitiful. Let's watch anime and make it colorful |
| It depends on the writer's will. There is a type of meta-fiction relying on that, here are two examples in written and video media: - Uchû's universe - Stranger than fiction I don't remember any example in the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead movie but my memories say it happens in it too. No idea about the original theater stuck. (out-of-topic: the film is great, fantastic, whatever adjective who might push you to watch it) edit: @UnpopularAnime Well, the Uchû example uses exactly the same start idea. I suppose the various Gintama anime series have a bit of that too because in the manga, at times, a character may talk directly to the readers. (but it's a very limited type of awareness, present in so many comedies I don't think it is noticeable) |
Rei_IIINov 13, 2016 11:22 PM
| I don't really understand what OP means to say. Isn't consciousness something that is alive ? Then that's just from creator's point of view. |
| dont't watch that anime if you are going to give it 1* and cry 10000 words in review about it. |
| While you could consider us to also not have pure free will and instead act on instinct and only develop a personality based on what we have observed to be useful, we still do make decisions on our own and our minds are complex. It is indeed possible to make a video game character who passes the Turing test but an anime character makes no decisions on its own, the writer makes the decisions for it. Therefore the anime character cannot possibly be conscious. Even a bee or ant who sort of makes decisions is not considered to be conscious because they are really just a part of a higher consciousness which is the colony. |
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UnpopularAnime said: OP are you okay? I think that's enough MAL for today.Is the character only conscious of the frames that are currently being created? Is the character conscious whenever the anime is watched? Or does the character get a mind of its own, after the anime is finished he lives his own life, which the creator is oblivious to. Or something else? |
  behind these hills i'm reaching for the heights  |
| I don't think I've hit the acid enough to really answer this. |
SomeEdgeLord said: I WILL report you from this forum if this continues. In real life, I am one of the coldest, unsympathetic, people you'll ever know, who's grown up in an even colder household, you really don't want me to break my persona, I know how to make people feel bad. YearnsforAttention said: hm who has 1656 friends on MAL that's right me bye bye YearnsforAttention said: I don't want your approval how many damn times do I need to say it I enjoy irritating you I am gonna do things MY way |
zombie_pegasus said: While you could consider us to also not have pure free will and instead act on instinct and only develop a personality based on what we have observed to be useful, we still do make decisions on our own and our minds are complex. It is indeed possible to make a video game character who passes the Turing test but an anime character makes no decisions on its own, the writer makes the decisions for it. Therefore the anime character cannot possibly be conscious. Even a bee or ant who sort of makes decisions is not considered to be conscious because they are really just a part of a higher consciousness which is the colony. But what if we are just a cartoon too? And our free will is just an illusion, and some writer already wrote out what will happen to us, and we can't change that? Can consciousness create consciousness? If I have a rock, I give it a name, I pretend to talk to it, I imagine a whole personality that the rock has, will I project consciousness onto the rock? Will my thoughts about the rock come true? I don't really think so, but it's interesting to think about. |
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YeAhx said: Not that kind of consciousness, a better word would be "quallia". It's the thing that seperates us from the robots, we can actually experience things, while a robot, even if it can imitate a human, is just running off of code.I don't really understand what OP means to say. Isn't consciousness something that is alive ? Then that's just from creator's point of view. |
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Rei366 said: yea that stranger than fiction is what im talking about, sort of.It depends on the writer's will. There is a type of meta-fiction relying on that, here are two examples in written and video media: - Uchû's universe - Stranger than fiction I don't remember any example in the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead movie but my memories say it happens in it too. No idea about the original theater stuck. (out-of-topic: the film is great, fantastic, whatever adjective who might push you to watch it) |
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UnpopularAnime said: You can't simply will something into having a consciousness. You can have a kid and guide them in a way for them to have the personality you want them to. You can also program a character to be the way you want them to be, but for them to truly be conscious takes a lot of work.zombie_pegasus said: While you could consider us to also not have pure free will and instead act on instinct and only develop a personality based on what we have observed to be useful, we still do make decisions on our own and our minds are complex. It is indeed possible to make a video game character who passes the Turing test but an anime character makes no decisions on its own, the writer makes the decisions for it. Therefore the anime character cannot possibly be conscious. Even a bee or ant who sort of makes decisions is not considered to be conscious because they are really just a part of a higher consciousness which is the colony. But what if we are just a cartoon too? And our free will is just an illusion, and some writer already wrote out what will happen to us, and we can't change that? Can consciousness create consciousness? If I have a rock, I give it a name, I pretend to talk to it, I imagine a whole personality that the rock has, will I project consciousness onto the rock? Will my thoughts about the rock come true? I don't really think so, but it's interesting to think about. |
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zombie_pegasus said: UnpopularAnime said: You can't simply will something into having a consciousness. You can have a kid and guide them in a way for them to have the personality you want them to. You can also program a character to be the way you want them to be, but for them to truly be conscious takes a lot of work.But what if we are just a cartoon too? And our free will is just an illusion, and some writer already wrote out what will happen to us, and we can't change that? Can consciousness create consciousness? If I have a rock, I give it a name, I pretend to talk to it, I imagine a whole personality that the rock has, will I project consciousness onto the rock? Will my thoughts about the rock come true? I don't really think so, but it's interesting to think about. Allot of work? what do you believe makes something conscious? It sounds like you think consciousness is man made or something. |
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Rei366 said: I just remembered, Princess Tutu is pretty close to what I'm talking about. Aside from the creator being able to interact with the story, and fate not existing.@UnpopularAnime Well, the Uchû example uses exactly the same start idea. I suppose the various Gintama anime series have a bit of that too because in the manga, at times, a character may talk directly to the readers. (but it's a very limited type of awareness, present in so many comedies I don't think it is noticeable) |
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UnpopularAnime said: When an anime character is created, is part of the creator's consciousness put into that character, and the character thinks everything he is experiencing is real? If yes, then how does it work? Is the character only conscious of the frames that are currently being created? Is the character conscious whenever the anime is watched? Or does the character get a mind of its own, after the anime is finished he lives his own life, which the creator is oblivious to. Or something else? One can think of anime characters as simulated people. The "computer" that is simulating them is the author's mind. As long as the author is thinking about them, they are, to a certain extent, alive. The resulting anime is a presentation/documentary of their life. Note that some writing styles are probably not in line with this concept, but some are. Now that we have this concept, we can have answers: Yes, the character thinks everything he is experiencing is real, unless the author wants otherwise. He may or may not be aware of any shortcuts the writer takes, for example a lot of characters seem aware of the difference between important people and the masses. But if they are aware, they rationalize it as the way their world works. The character may perceive time differently from us, being capable of setting up a joke while other parts of the joke should not yet be visible to him/her. The classic example is harem protagonists walking in on girls changing - MC gets the impulse to go wherever he tries to go because the girls would be changing there, even though he is not consciously aware of that, because he has a property of "accidental pervert". The character is only conscious when the original work is planned, or when a work is re-arranged during adaptation. You're watching only a record of the characters' existence, no better than a documentary. The creator might simulate the character's life even after the work is done. For example, while we never knew what happened to Negi Springfield after the ending of Negima (and how did his love life worked out), the author has worked it out, and included elements of that in his next work, UQ-Holder. Unless the creator does it, the character's simulation stops, and he/she is frozen in time, to eventually erode and be forgotten. Depending on your point of view, the same character featuring in doujins, fans' imaginations and other places might be the same character, or merely a copy that is not the same as the original. In either case, he/she will have a lot of copying errors beyond any inflicted intentionally. UnpopularAnime said: YeAhx said: Not that kind of consciousness, a better word would be "quallia". It's the thing that seperates us from the robots, we can actually experience things, while a robot, even if it can imitate a human, is just running off of code.I don't really understand what OP means to say. Isn't consciousness something that is alive ? Then that's just from creator's point of view. Note that not everyone believes in qualia, and that there is any principal barrier between humans and sufficiently advanced robots. |
| Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! |
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flannan said: UnpopularAnime said: When an anime character is created, is part of the creator's consciousness put into that character, and the character thinks everything he is experiencing is real? If yes, then how does it work? Is the character only conscious of the frames that are currently being created? Is the character conscious whenever the anime is watched? Or does the character get a mind of its own, after the anime is finished he lives his own life, which the creator is oblivious to. Or something else? One can think of anime characters as simulated people. The "computer" that is simulating them is the author's mind. As long as the author is thinking about them, they are, to a certain extent, alive. The resulting anime is a presentation/documentary of their life. Note that some writing styles are probably not in line with this concept, but some are. Now that we have this concept, we can have answers: Yes, the character thinks everything he is experiencing is real, unless the author wants otherwise. He may or may not be aware of any shortcuts the writer takes, for example a lot of characters seem aware of the difference between important people and the masses. But if they are aware, they rationalize it as the way their world works. The character may perceive time differently from us, being capable of setting up a joke while other parts of the joke should not yet be visible to him/her. The classic example is harem protagonists walking in on girls changing - MC gets the impulse to go wherever he tries to go because the girls would be changing there, even though he is not consciously aware of that, because he has a property of "accidental pervert". The character is only conscious when the original work is planned, or when a work is re-arranged during adaptation. You're watching only a record of the characters' existence, no better than a documentary. The creator might simulate the character's life even after the work is done. For example, while we never knew what happened to Negi Springfield after the ending of Negima (and how did his love life worked out), the author has worked it out, and included elements of that in his next work, UQ-Holder. Unless the creator does it, the character's simulation stops, and he/she is frozen in time, to eventually erode and be forgotten. Depending on your point of view, the same character featuring in doujins, fans' imaginations and other places might be the same character, or merely a copy that is not the same as the original. In either case, he/she will have a lot of copying errors beyond any inflicted intentionally. UnpopularAnime said: Not that kind of consciousness, a better word would be "quallia". It's the thing that seperates us from the robots, we can actually experience things, while a robot, even if it can imitate a human, is just running off of code. Note that not everyone believes in qualia, and that there is any principal barrier between humans and sufficiently advanced robots. Not everyone believes in qualia? Well... I'd call that person crazy, how do they think they are conscious, if they don't believe things can be conscious? lol |
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UnpopularAnime said: Well sort of, but toys don't do anything hah, shows what you know, my My Little Pony GI Joe doll action figure has sparkle shine Kung Fu grip action. |
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UnpopularAnime said: flannan said: One can think of anime characters as simulated people. The "computer" that is simulating them is the author's mind. As long as the author is thinking about them, they are, to a certain extent, alive. The resulting anime is a presentation/documentary of their life. Note that some writing styles are probably not in line with this concept, but some are. Now that we have this concept, we can have answers: Yes, the character thinks everything he is experiencing is real, unless the author wants otherwise. He may or may not be aware of any shortcuts the writer takes, for example a lot of characters seem aware of the difference between important people and the masses. But if they are aware, they rationalize it as the way their world works. The character may perceive time differently from us, being capable of setting up a joke while other parts of the joke should not yet be visible to him/her. The classic example is harem protagonists walking in on girls changing - MC gets the impulse to go wherever he tries to go because the girls would be changing there, even though he is not consciously aware of that, because he has a property of "accidental pervert". The character is only conscious when the original work is planned, or when a work is re-arranged during adaptation. You're watching only a record of the characters' existence, no better than a documentary. The creator might simulate the character's life even after the work is done. For example, while we never knew what happened to Negi Springfield after the ending of Negima (and how did his love life worked out), the author has worked it out, and included elements of that in his next work, UQ-Holder. Unless the creator does it, the character's simulation stops, and he/she is frozen in time, to eventually erode and be forgotten. Depending on your point of view, the same character featuring in doujins, fans' imaginations and other places might be the same character, or merely a copy that is not the same as the original. In either case, he/she will have a lot of copying errors beyond any inflicted intentionally. Note that not everyone believes in qualia, and that there is any principal barrier between humans and sufficiently advanced robots. Not everyone believes in qualia? Well... I'd call that person crazy, how do they think they are conscious, if they don't believe things can be conscious? lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia Much of the debate over their importance hinges on the definition of the term, and various philosophers emphasize or deny the existence of certain features of qualia. As such, the nature and existence of various definitions of qualia remain controversial. And the way you define it, "unit of human specialness", it probably does not exist. |
| I'm wondering more if you are self-aware. |
"I came here to sniff Madoka panties and kick witch ass and I am all out 'doka panties" - Homora Akemi |
| I think that's enough anime for you in a lifetime.... Get help. In all seriousness, I think the closest thing that you can get to anime with conscious characters is if the story is unfinished and the author is taking input from the fans, basically there is a chance of changing the mind of the author who writes the story. Even then.... no. |
| If your favourite character is Tsutsukakushi Tsukiko, you are my soul mate. Been a long time since I've been here, I'll continue expressing myself freely and believe everyone should too. My MAL Interview |
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