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| [quote=Commentator1 message=46218321] the_fools said: Commentator1 said: What he mean by trigger limitations is what you said about Chika using sheild+sniper trigger+lead bullet. Lead bullet I'm assuming is "fit" in her sniper trigger... Wasn't there like "main trigger" and "support"/ "side" triggers?.... Kitora gunner/ attacker/ wire basically everything you can think of in her triggers... Also if Chika goes around shooting people with led bullets isn't that just "shield + led bullets"? Or does "hound" also take a trigger... Nasu for example can do Shield + bullets. I don't think there's a difference if the bullets are just bullets or led bullets. I mean led bullets are just led bullets. Not bullets + led.... (It's a type of bullet, not a bullet + led 2 things...) That being said sniping bullets = sniping led bullets... ? (i think it makes sense). Whether you shoot "led bullets" or "trion bullets", they are bullets. There's no "composing" bullets + led at any point. (No composite bullets) To shoot lead bullet, chika must use sniper trigger in the main PLUS the lead bullet in the sub trigger. The same also said for the hound + lead. Kitora used built in spider for her gunner trigger, that's modded. Also, Miwa modded gunner and lead bullet. You can't do that yet in B-rank. |
| LOL. Osamu Team win in points 6-2-1 always winning in strategy and power. The true military strength of Japan! |
Commentator1 said: Okay so "led bullets" are "optional trigger"; and it can also be used "conjunction" with sniper rifles. But what are "led bullets" just by itself? It's nothing? (it's just lead, the material?)... "Led bullets trigger" includes in and of itself "hound"/"viper" anything else you can think of. So yes, using "normal" 'Hound" (that's with normal bullets), and "lead Hound"; would be like using 2 triggers at the same time. But basically Lead Hound is in and of itself in the "lead bullet trigger". Otherwise you think "lead bullet" is something you "add" on top of other triggers? It's an "optional trigger" itself, so it has it's "own" ways to fire, which includes hound etc;, Thought you can't use it with a "normal weapon". You have to have a modified weapon. It would be called "lead weapon". Then when you use it you're just using "lead gun" (a gun that "ONLY" shoots lead bullets). You can't shoot mixed bullets like Lead + regular bullets. Cause that would be 2 different triggers, at the same time. "Lead Gun"/ or "lead shooter" as the "main trigger" + sub trigger "shield"? That's totally possible. and makes sense... Shooters wouldn't have to "modify" anything, and could use "lead viper"/"lead hound" etc;, The "weakness" would be that they can't use "regular" bullets. So they can't actually damage anyone; they would have to have another team member to "kill" the enemy, after you hit them with the lead bullets. (though i guess you have 4 trigger options, and change between lead bullets and regular bullets... Just can't do it at the same time) Sorry, I couldn't apprehend what you are trying to say. Sorry. But I guess it's actually possible to have like, "lightning lead" and "hound lead", but that would need modification. However, FOR NOW, Chika must use lead bullet as an option trigger, as that kind of modification is only for A-rank team. So Chika FOR NOW, don't have the room for your setup of "anything and lead" plus shield. But, I don't really know the requirements of using shield to become a full surround protection. If I recall it right, kitora used anchor shield mode and couldn't move from there. |
Commentator1 said: Lol, you guys... What does "optional" mean? It means you can "switch" with the one you are using. You have 4 "options" to your "main trigger", and 4 "optional" for your "sub trigger". Lead bullets are NOT "sub-trigger"... Shield is. Optional trigger means, you can STOP using your "main trigger"/ or "sub-trigger" that you are using, and SWITCH with that OPTIONAL trigger... So basically if you are using "Regular Hound", you STOP using it... then start using the "optional trigger" (thus Lead bullets). You can't use Hound (regular) + Lead bullets, EVER! That would be using 2 main triggers at the Same time!!!!! That being said, Chika "Lightning" HAS TO HAVE been "modified", or else it's "impossible" for Chika to have shot lead bullets. Maybe "Lightning" is different from other guns. But with all other guns basically either you get it modified to shoot lead bullets. Or you CANT shoot lead bullets... There's no "hound" + lead bullets or "lightning"+ lead bullets; anywhere (impossible to use 2 main trigger options at the same). There's just Lead Hound, Lead lightning... ... Oh damn. Just heads up to the chapter 119 page 9 panel 4 please. Lightning is equiped on main side, and the lead option equiped on the sub side. So, it's not using 2 main side trigger simultaneously. Just think lead bullet as an add-ons. You can retain the characteristic of main trigger plus the effect of the lead bullet. |
Commentator1 said: aditriz said: ... Oh damn. Just heads up to the chapter 119 page 9 panel 4 please. Lightning is equiped on main side, and the lead option equiped on the sub side. So, it's not using 2 main side trigger simultaneously. Just think lead bullet as an add-ons. You can retain the characteristic of main trigger plus the effect of the lead bullet. Lol, even in chapter 119; when Chika sees the "Lightning", she claims "Black Lightning?". It means, the "Lightning" she used was already "modified", and then later "programed" into her trigger, by the operator there; so she can use it now... Just try to "ignore" page 9 panel 4 ;p We just saw Chika use "Lead Hound" + Shield ;p Black lighting just signified that they are already combined, not necessarily modified. It's still just main and sub trigger combination. The term modified I mean here is like modifying weapon that normally takes up two slot (main and sub) and became takes up just one slot to use. In this last fight, she used Hound + Lead. As she already shot it, her trigger is free to use again. So she can defend herself with shield again. |
Commentator1 said: That didn't happen in Suwa match.aditriz said: You forgot about the two trigger limitation. In the Rank War against Suwa team? Chika was running around with her sniper, with a shield on her back... So... What trigger limitations again? It was against Nino/Azuma/Kageura and anyway when she did that she didn't have her rifle just Shield + Bagworm. Commentator1 said: No. Option Trigger are Triggers that don't do damage directly, and as such can't be considered a person's main weapon.the_fools said: I see, that would be possible when they became A-rank or when they got their specialized trigger like T-1. aditriz said: But I guess it's actually possible to have like, "lightning lead" and "hound lead", but that would need modification. However, FOR NOW, Chika must use lead bullet as an option trigger, as that kind of modification is only for A-rank team. So Chika FOR NOW, don't have the room for your setup of "anything and lead" plus shield. But, I don't really know the requirements of using shield to become a full surround protection. If I recall it right, kitora used anchor shield mode and couldn't move from there. Lol, you guys... What does "optional" mean? It means you can "switch" with the one you are using. You have 4 "options" to your "main trigger", and 4 "optional" for your "sub trigger". Lead bullets are NOT "sub-trigger"... Shield is. Optional trigger means, you can STOP using your "main trigger"/ or "sub-trigger" that you are using, and SWITCH with that OPTIONAL trigger... So basically if you are using "Regular Hound", you STOP using it... then start using the "optional trigger" (thus Lead bullets). You can't use Hound (regular) + Lead bullets, EVER! That would be using 2 main triggers at the Same time!!!!! That being said, Chika "Lightning" HAS TO HAVE been "modified", or else it's "impossible" for Chika to have shot lead bullets. Maybe "Lightning" is different from other guns. But with all other guns basically either you get it modified to shoot lead bullets. Or you CANT shoot lead bullets... There's no "hound" + lead bullets or "lightning"+ lead bullets; anywhere (impossible to use 2 main trigger options at the same). There's just Lead Hound, Lead lightning... Example: Scorpion is a main Trigger. Grasshopper is an option Trigger. Then we have Main Trigger and Sub Trigger which are different things entirely; they are just indicators of WHERE your Triggers are placed in your Trigger set. Grasshopper can be Main Trigger based on its location, but it's not a Main Trigger based on its function. And no, you CAN'T use Lead Bullet on its own, you NEED to apply it to another bullet type like any of the Gunner/Shooter/Sniper Triggers. |
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-jdj888- said: Commentator1 said: Even though I agree with you about that and expected that to happen, we can't still deny that Kitora help Osamu for this round. So I'm still interested in her opinion as long as it's a constructive critisism. ;)Kitora never has anything good to say about Osamu. The best she could say would be "that was to be expected. As the one who taught him is, me" (like "as his teacher was, me") Also she'll probably mention how "clumsy" he was and how he BO, due to the enemy getting assist by his "OWN" wire... and how pathetic that was... xD (she would just over emphasize everything, to make it sound very negative xD, cause thats what she does to Osamu) Commentator1 you are being to harsh with Kitora. I understand it feels like she is bashing Osamu but I think she would find negative things to comment on Kazama or Arashiyama if she was asked. She always has something to say because no one is perfect and without critisism you can't grow. I'm not sure she is the type to praise anyone but I'm sure she would aknowledge that Osamu made a decent use of spider and the he learned it quickly. She will probably say he has room to grow but I don't think she will critisize his bailing out because no one expects him to survive a whole match anyway. |
Commentator1 said: dat_le_tat said: The problem is Nino team can't join Away team because some sniper can't shot people, it mean if they can win B-1 and B-2 with Huyse around, someone can't fix her own problem. If they fix their problem, they are A rank team by ability can join Away mission not by name because of one individual. Nino team can't go, because they are B-rank... You mean Ema's teacher (who is in Neighbor world now by the way), she was a "big part" of why their team was successful and got to A-rank. So with her not being able to "shoot people", put the "team" down as a "whole". Here, even with Chika not shooting people, if we have Hyuse/ Yuma who can and kills people enough; then "as a team", they are strong enough. (Ema explained how his teacher was letting the team win, just by destroying the other team's weapons) First of all, if you read the manga, it is extremely unclear if Ninomiya was really sidelined because of Hatohara's inability to shoot people or if it was just part of the cover-up of her crime. Personally, I think it the later. Also, even if it was for her inability to shoot people, Chika CAN shoot people (with lead bullet). She may not be able to kill them but in an expedition mission this might be even more useful. It is useful for questioning, capturing, etc. Moreover, Border neighborhood missions are not ''invasions'' so they would prefer not killing aliens the same way Galo did their best not to anger Midden. As for Hatohara leading her team to victory blah blah blah... I have no doubt she was extremely useful but it's obvious that Nino squad is doing more than just fine without her. |
dat_le_tat said: LuzNight said: First of all, if you read the manga, it is extremely unclear if Ninomiya was really sidelined because of Hatohara's inability to shoot people or if it was just part of the cover-up of her crime. Personally, I think it the later. Also, even if it was for her inability to shoot people, Chika CAN shoot people (with lead bullet). She may not be able to kill them but in an expedition mission this might be even more useful. It is useful for questioning, capturing, etc. Moreover, Border neighborhood missions are not ''invasions'' so they would prefer not killing aliens the same way Galo did their best not to anger Midden. As for Hatohara leading her team to victory blah blah blah... I have no doubt she was extremely useful but it's obvious that Nino squad is doing more than just fine without her. Hatohara's inability to shoot people, sure she is useful when again another Border agents but Neighbor, i don't know. Like Aftor weapons, where will Hatohara gonna shoot at? It is a reason, And Aftor can easy to neutralize lead bullet. Shot them make them BO and capture them, question them. they can do nothing, and Border trigger only can stun people, not kill. I never said Hatohara would be useful in the neighborhood just that I don't think it was the reason to sideline the WHOLE team. I don't know why you say Afto can ''easily neutralize lead bullets''? How? Sure they can(maybe) BO if they are taken but so far Galo showed us they can only do so all at once which still leaves plenty of time for questioning or whatever. Also, BT simbly can't BO. Also, even if they can all BO the last part of my arguments still stands about minimal destruction. |
p-kun said: I'm going to throw fuel to the heated debate. Remember that the agents with expedition experience are accustomed to looting bloodied corpses? I'm fairly sure that the expedition will not only require the agents to be able to shoot trion bodies, but also real bodies (the civilian safety mechanism in Border triggers need to be removed first). Yuuma has no problem killing people for sure. I think Osamu can get used to it pretty quickly. But Chika? Let's say that she learns to shoot trion bodies and gets selected. Can she shoot to kill? I'm looking forward to the drama where that happens. Personally, I would loathe for Chika to be given exception to the rule imposed to all other agents. T-2 already gets a lot of special treatments by Border thanks to their MC status. Considering this is a Shonen Jump manga I'm guessing we aren't going to get that gritty about killing people. |
| I just think it's weird that you guys are still arguing about Chika. She's the main character and by definition will have the proper development to meet progression requirements in the story. Because at the end of the day the bigger sin in writing is to introduce a character as a main character then to abandon them for some pride filled consistency thing when that can probably be written around. |
the_fools said: lol true. sorry for wrong analyse.Insanity_42 said: Actually it's 7-1-1.LOL. Osamu Team win in points 6-2-1 always winning in strategy and power. |
| Let me just say that, Nino's unit isn't B-Rank because Hatohara quit. After the demotion, they just simply didn't have enough Rank War seasons to get a chance to move back up to A-Rank. I think they had 2 or 3 chances at most, and let's not undermine the current A-Rank squads' abilities, so it's not like winning against them even with Hatohara is a simple matter. Edit: Yes they were demoted because of her action, but her missing from the team isn't why they can't get back up. It's a combination of having too little chances against equally very powerful teams. Also, Chika and Osamu's problems that some here believe they have to take care of before they can go on an away mission will take some time to solve. I won't claim a number (although Kitora said Osamu needs 2 years to fight on par with Ninomiya and Kageura squads), but the upcoming away mission selection will start in a month or so, they don't have much time left and I think it's unrealistic and not very WT-like for them to get over their issues in this little time. Basically, for whoever is insisting they have to get to A-Rank without Hyuse, you are also insisting they not go on the upcoming away mission. Regarding Hyuse's "tactics," I have yet to get a convincing reason for why he isn't a downgrade compared to Shiori. And there hasn't been an answer to how he's going to do plain operator support work considering he doesn't have experience in that field. |
BotatoMay 28, 2016 9:45 PM
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Dragon_Slayer_X said: But Osamu wants to go ASAP.Galopoula are the solution to everything at this moment. If they destroy the ship then expeditions will be halted by at least a year. If they destroy the ship then it will take more time for them to get back on track than it would for him to wait for a second chance. There'd be no point from a narrative perspective to destroy it; if Ashihara wants T-2 to wait more he just makes them fail the selection test or get put under some kind of restriction. And besides that what are we going to get in that time period? More Rank Wars? A time skip? Commentator1 said: Never going to happen ever. Trion bodies are impervious to traditional weapons that countries on this side use, they wouldn't dare pick a fight with Border because one single Trigger user could wipe out an army.You realize Border isn't "officially" part of the military yet (i think...), so there's lots of friction. Osamu basically "saved" Border's image, but if public opinion goes away from Border; there's even the risk of "shutting down Border" entirely. They would still need Border's equipments and all to defend from the Neighbors. So the military would come in and take over Border. Name it "National Defense Bureau against Neighbor Aliens"; and have their own "enlistments" and operations running. Kido would be kicked out... |
BotatoMay 28, 2016 10:34 PM
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| Well yeah that's what I'm saying, destroying the ship isn't really needed if the end goal is to make T-2 wait. There were other ways to make them wait before Galo even approached, and it's not like it's set in stone that they will go. As we discussed a few chapters back Jin told Osamu not to rush because they will have other chances later, but then chose to help him with Hyuse anyway meaning they have a chance now, be it small or not. We're talking about a whole year of nothing new. Unless other nations decide to attack Miden and we get a 50-ish chapter long invasion arc, I don't see what else we can get. I mean, it's at least 4 or 6 more months between the end of this Rank War season and the next one. Sneaking out on their own is out of the question. Tamakoma is a branch with their own base and chain of command but they are still part of Border, what will they do after they come back to Miden when they break the rules? |
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Commentator1 said: But fact is no one has tried to bother Border in the 4 years they have gone public. As I said Trion bodies and Triggers in general are very powerful weapons that other countries and superpowers would want to have in their hands, yet they haven't managed to do anything to Border to get their hands on any. All we know is some countries pay money to Border to learn some of Trion's applications, but they don't get weapons.Botato said: Never going to happen ever. Trion bodies are impervious to traditional weapons that countries on this side use, they wouldn't dare pick a fight with Border because one single Trigger user could wipe out an army. But all the "agents" are not "criminals"... I'm not talking about 1 group taking over another... If government tells Border to give their facilities up, and vacate for the military; if Border doesn't follow, they would all be criminals... (traitors) Kido vs everyone else? I would bet on everyone else... Military is run by the government. It's not year 1200, where the Military told the government to do anymore. Border can't just tell the "government" and "military" to do something (that would be traitorous and rebellious). On the other hand government is "picked" by the people, works for the people... They can do whatever they want, as long as people are fine with it. Border is ahead of everyone in terms of military power, so no one will dare tell them to disarm or do anything, all they can do is just cut off funds, and Kido won't be alone, there are people who have been around since old Border like Shinoda, Rindo, Jin, etc and as I said one Trigger user is enough to stop any kind of non-Trigger based military that attacks Border. That said if shit hits the fan then Border will just simply make Trion Soldiers to compensate. dat_le_tat said: No, Yuma joined Border because he applied through Tamakoma.Yuma joined Border because Jin offer them his Fujin, Hyuse is the enemy. Jin giving up his Fujin was to make HQ leave Yuma's BT alone. |
BotatoMay 28, 2016 11:19 PM
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