| Whose going to take the spot of tabloid-tier gaming journalism? Also post your favorite kotaku moments |
PeenusWeenusCaimMar 21, 2016 12:57 AM
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| While its certainly good to see GawkerMedia go, it would be sad to see kotaku go. It has some of the best actual journalists in the media, too bad they were associated with an offensive tabloid network running on harassment. Its also sad that it took a racist to took gawker down. Hopefully "press sneak fuck" and others(Klepek, Totilo) who did their job the best, land on their feet. Kotaku Australia can burn tho. Still hoping the whole kotaku gets bought by another media site instead of being shattered. |
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| I remember reading this one article on Kotaku that said something along the lines of "Killing female gamers in online games is rape". Needless to say, that was a rather infuriating piece. Rape had suffered enough already with all the false accusations being met with absolutely nothing. |
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| Claims sorceress caters to pedophiles George Kamitani responds to kotaku |
[/url]And then they resolve the misunderstanding in a friendly manner, but let's omit that because that doe snot fit the agenda that is being pushed. |
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| Had no idea that Kotaku was part of Gawker. Huh.. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| Friendly reminder that Kotaku was one of the first gaming news sites to abandon ridiculously stupid "reveiw grading" and then going as far removing Yes/No too so people are actually reading the review and not the arbitrary number. They also gave an open inside view intowhat shilling looks like and what companies expect out of youtubers and games media: http://kotaku.com/what-its-like-to-shill-video-games-on-youtube-1755934342 They also have spread awareness for some of the best overlooked games http://kotaku.com/you-really-need-to-play-the-yakuza-games-1747406314 http://kotaku.com/this-generations-best-final-fantasies-werent-named-f-1449859509 They also wrote some very nice investigative pieces like about Blizzard's cancelled Titan that latter got repurposed into Overwatch, etc: http://kotaku.com/heres-what-blizzards-titan-actually-was-1638632121 http://kotaku.com/the-curse-of-kiseki-how-one-of-japans-biggest-rpgs-bar-1740055631 http://kotaku.com/sources-amazon-spent-big-bucks-on-cryteks-engine-1696008878 They also called out the likes of sony on their bullshit PR statements http://kotaku.com/mobile-gaming-didnt-kill-the-vita-sony-did-1733350950 Or calling out konami on their bullshit: http://kotaku.com/konami-sucks-1702695162 Or making fun of Microsoft's awful xbone promo missteps: http://kotaku.com/thanks-call-of-duty-dog-for-brightening-up-a-mostly-d-509105422 Or calling out retailers for bullshit: http://kotaku.com/invisible-nunchuck-man-and-other-ridiculous-retail-stor-1699035311 Or calling out mistreatment of gaming industry workers: http://kotaku.com/blogging-for-final-fantasy-xv-sounds-really-tough-1765546258 Or calling out Warner Bros on knowing that Arkham Knight will be broken piece of shit and still launching it: http://kotaku.com/sources-warner-bros-knew-that-arkham-knight-pc-was-a-1714915219 Not to mention an objective neutral view on the fire emblem fates outrage: http://kotaku.com/the-fight-over-the-best-way-to-translate-fire-emblem-fa-1761106038 Or nice articles debunking bias towards "virtual" friendships and relations: http://tay.kinja.com/gaming-friendships-are-real-1689083798 Let's not forget even non-gaming content like showing just how awfully animators are treated in Japan: http://kotaku.com/being-an-animator-in-japan-is-brutal-1690248803 |
AhenshihaelMar 21, 2016 2:11 AM
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Don't forget the part where Schreier gets BTFO by a GAF user. |
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| ^more propaganda above omitting facts to fit the agenda. Anyway, my favorite article is still: http://kotaku.com/how-lucasarts-fell-apart-1401731043 Its very rare to see "games journalists" actually do journalism and write opinion and investigative pieces instead of parroting hype news. |
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| They can eat d*** almost all journalist based gaming sites are corrupt assholes now and anyway media has outdone them. With youtubers bloggers all beating them to the punch an internalized magazine style editorial site is no longer required. http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/11/23/kotaku-told-me-denounce-gamergate-or-else-says-popular-youtuber/  "If your industry had the same sort of issues with sexism and exclusion...." wtf gaming is the most inclusive thing out there. The only issues are what these types are conjuring up. They can't find exclusion and sexism so they just make it up that gaming is like that to make controversy. |
SpooksMar 21, 2016 2:23 AM
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Fai said: What agenda? I'm just posting Kotaku getting BTFO, and it's true, they got BTFO.^more propaganda above omitting facts to fit the agenda. Now THIS is propaganda:  |
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| I stopped using these types of sites after I stopped studying gaming journalism so I don't know who that guy is but i really want to atleast lamp him some sense. What a entitled know it all douche. Not fit to grace youtube comments let alone be part of a large gaming website. |
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Spooks said: I haven't legitimately followed gaming journalism in years. It's all a cesspool, and I'm glad I dropped the activity before it went out of hand.I stopped using these types of sites after I stopped studying gaming journalism so I don't know who that guy is but i really want to atleast lamp him some sense. What a entitled know it all douche. Not fit to grace youtube comments let alone be part of a large gaming website. Shit like this just gives me a headache sometimes |
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Ive seen some shit..... > Going into uni hyped to become a gaming journalist > leaving uni eternally disgusted by what I learn't goes on and saw behind the curtain of gaming journalism. All mainstream journalism is toxic absolutely toxic, filled with snakes and scum. Its a real viper pit and I pity any young fool going in thinking they're going to do good and talk about games because they loves games. Most gaming journalists f****ing hate games and especially gamers trust me. Its all about the cash. The 13 article run of gamers are dead that started gamergate from all those mainstream sites should have shown everyone their contempt for their readership. All they care about if their journalist buddies, their under the table deals and "press packs" and getting caught out the immediately bit the hand that feeds them because they don't care about gamers. They think they're better than them that gamers will eat whatever shit they choose to give them. The ferocious anti gamergate campaign that followed was proof of their distaste for others and their love for their dirty dealings remaining behind the curtain. Gaming is far better off without these sites. Mainstream journalism just breeds corruption and scum. |
SpooksMar 21, 2016 2:36 AM
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TR-8RCaim said: Fai said: What agenda? I'm just posting Kotaku getting BTFO, and it's true, they got BTFO.^more propaganda above omitting facts to fit the agenda. Now THIS is propaganda: That article is not wrong? Dragon Crown is some of the worst sexist pandery art possible ruining a decent gameplay. Let's not forget the case of this: |
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| Explain why it's sexist. Actual logic and reasoning this time, not just spamming the term "problematic". |
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TR-8RCaim said: Explain why it's sexist. Actual logic and reasoning this time, not just spamming the term "problematic". Let me answer that for him: Sorceress has boobs and boobs = sexist, because everyone knows that real women don't have boobs. |
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TR-8RCaim said: Explain why it's sexist. Actual logic and reasoning this time, not just spamming the term "problematic". Because its focus is male titillation and malegaze, sexualizing and objectifying a female character into sex object. There's a way to design a character and that does not involve turning them into a sex object. Friendly reminder that characters were supposed to look like humans wearing practical clothes:  (I mean amazon's lack of pants still would be questionable but make sense in terms of the whole barbarian concept) And somewhere along the way somebody most likely said "but 14 year old white boys wont buy it then!" Dragons Crown design is a strong departure from what Vanillaware used to do.  ^I mean that's still skimpy but at least it is way less problematic . A character's defining and only feature should NEVER be that she has two basketballs on a chest and wears a freaking towel |
AhenshihaelMar 21, 2016 3:01 AM
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| Women with big boobs don't exist in reality Caim you should know that and revealing outfits demean and hurt women. Thats why all those happy cosplayers generally pick a lot of revealing characters to cosplay as and are always happy at conventions because inside they're dying and are fearing the male gaze. They're literally forced to like dressing as those characters by the man. If it were truly up to women what characters they like and haha lets not talk about those gamer girls because they don't really know what they like they don't even know gaming is been hateful towards them. No true women will all be flat chested because boobs are sexist and completely covered head to toe in a black garment that covers their face to stop men gazing at their bodies. Most female gamers don't even buy that bullshit and love all kinds of characters from the scantily clad busty ones to the covered up new Lara. Its more agenda pushing on an industry thats already diverse and full of people working together to have fun. You look at the most popular female characters for female gamers and half of them will be wearing revealing clothing but do they care? no they love their outfits and it isn't their whole character. The massive irony that the outfit alone doesn't make the character yet super feminists don't see this as something good and must demand that a female character is summed up by the clothing she wears. The funny thing is games designers usually give those characters personality and real character, feminists just focus on what they wear instead of who they are like the gamer girls who actually played the games do. |
SpooksMar 21, 2016 3:03 AM
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| There's a difference between portraying accurate character physiology and basing character physiology on malegaze. Sexual empowerment should be celebrated. It should not become an object for pandering to the opposite sex. |
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Fai said: Except the sorceress and amazon and elf are never used sexually in the game. How are they sex objects? They're just characters kicking ass in a over-the-top fantasy setting. TR-8RCaim said: Explain why it's sexist. Actual logic and reasoning this time, not just spamming the term "problematic". Because its focus is male titillation and malegaze, sexualizing and objectifying a female character into sex object. There's a way to design a character and that does not involve turning them into a sex object. Also, I don't see how attracting the male gaze is sexist. It was made by a dude, directed by a dude, had a developing team mainly composed of dudes and has a target demographic which are mainly dudes. Is it sexist to cater and sell condoms to men now? Is it sexist to exclusively sell bras and panties to women? |
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TR-8RCaim said: Except the sorceress and amazon and elf are never used sexually in the game. How are they sex objects? They're just characters kicking ass in a over-the-top fantasy setting. They are designed to pander to viewer. Narrative does not stop with the story. Narrative is something that involves the viewer. As an example MGS5, Kojima might bullshit all he likes about why Quiet is practically naked, but the real reason is clear - its for the viewer to treat her as an object to lust after. and if you want STORY examples - how about the fact that you only save skimpy damsels from evil evil monsters. Why are they dressed that way? Why are they presented as reward or something to be fought after? Why are they denied their agency? Or if they MUST look like that why not save some male warrior in same position so you can save HIM instead of just her her her all the time?? Also, I don't see how attracting the male gaze is sexist. It was made by a dude, directed by a dude, had a developing team mainly composed of dudes and has a target demographic which are mainly dudes. So suddenly males can't design sensible characters? Also please show me the actual genuine and accurate research that only males play those games. Even if it is true I can guess why - because the marketing and "focus testing" alienates the other audience with problematic content targeted at 12 year olds. Also you do realize that designing characters solely to be objects is extremely reductive towards the real world equivalent of the said character genders and races, etc? Designing female whose only purpose is for the viewer to look at is no different than writing a black character who is a "brute" and dies first. Is it sexist to cater and sell condoms to men now? Is it sexist to exclusively sell bras and panties to women? Thats a logical fallacy and you know it. It would be sexist NOT to sell condoms because "women are supposed to birth babies" or to deny a female right to chose wether they want to have sex while protected or not. Condoms also have far more to do than just sex itself. Case in point - sex transmitted diseases. |
AhenshihaelMar 21, 2016 3:09 AM
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This is the male dwarf in dragon's crown. He has a physical anatomy that is nonsensical, unbelievable and unattainable for the average human male. I'm not going to complain about this though because I can tell the difference between reality and fiction and understand that fantasy allows an artist to create their vision without being restricted by the domain of real life. Oh wait. The artist police are pulling their bullshit again. It's happening right now. In this thread. |
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Fai said: There's a difference between portraying accurate character physiology and basing character physiology on malegaze. Sexual empowerment should be celebrated. It should not become an object for pandering to the opposite sex. Women have big boobs and accurate physiology lol its called art style and most gaming stretches the limits of reality. What the hell is accurate female body type? do girls with huge boobs suddenly not exist? are you saying they're sexist for existing. What is appropriate? D size? B cup? one size fits all? should all games regardless of art style be generic realism? and explain why it is that most girl gamers favorite characters short listed have over half their favorites been skimpy. They could have picked the covered up average girl but its almost like they realize its a fantasy playing video games and its ok to live out extremes. Explains why all those cosplay girls at conventions go as the character they like rather than the ideal of blandness feminists want them to like.  Heres an example this piece of art was done by an artist Now immediately you'd say its sexist, demeaning women and is fetishist, perhaps drawn by a 14 year old perverted boy right going by your argument. Except it wasn't it was drawn by my favorite artist a female comic artist currently working on a load of comics for a few of the big named producers. Shes not oppressed, not fetishizing herself and she draws female characters sometimes in revealing clothing and or with big boobs. Its not sexist for women to have boobs or have revealing clothing and most women that aren't angry feminist land whales actually enjoy the riske side of the fantasy of been a kick ass video game female. The irony been that gamers see the character, the feminist and sjw just sees the clothes. |
SpooksMar 21, 2016 3:18 AM
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LOOK AT THIS FUCKING UNREALISTIC GUYS HE'S A PAC-MAN BUT HIS ANATOMY AND PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS ARE NOT REALISTIC IT'S NOT SENSIBLE DESIGN HOW SEXIST |
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LOOK AT THESE EARS THEY'RE NOT HUMAN AT ALL IT'S OBJECTIFYING IT'S NOT SENSIBLE IT'S SHAMELESSLY THOUGHTLESS A MAN WITH POINTY EARS IT'S NO DIFFERANT THAN WRITING A CHARACTER WITH TITS |
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| Nice logical fallacy spam m8. You do realize its against forum rules, right? Pleas eshow me where the game focuses on his ass or breast as his defining feature? Or where is the bulging cock outline if we are talking about equal sexual design? The focus is "OMG HE SO STRONK" while with females its "OMG THEY SO SEXY". See the problem? The game is ridden with crap like that. Even when a female is dressed in full armor, the game does not pass away to make it sexualized.  This shows the difference the best:  Oh look bunch of OMGSTRONK men and two strippers. Its not just art or clothes - its the way characters are posed too. Franchises like Bayonetta manage to pull off a sexually-free main character perfectly. Because they are aware and the character has an agency in their behavior. Dragon's Crown lacks that. Now if we talk about actual armor, which is not the point here, I mean lack of armor sensibility is a long standing problem with games http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AnnaJenelius/20150520/243514/Armor_for_Dummies_andor_Game_Developers.php this is a great article on that. If you design game ridiculous enough to have characters shrug off damage with their biceps - okay. If you design a game where you take actual damage, dressing like a stripper takes way too much suspension of disbelief. Gods I wish more games would use unisex armor like Path of Exile does and Pillars of Eternity does  |
AhenshihaelMar 21, 2016 3:25 AM
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Fai said: If you design a game where you take actual damage, dressing like a stripper takes way too much suspension of disbelief. > not dressed in armor = suspension of disbelief broken. Has a none armored character jumping on a big bird in their signature. *laughs in hypocrisy* ^ Im not seeing battle armour, breast plating on these girls. Seeing some hot pants on the one on the far right third ones dressed like a bondage mistress and everyone else in body accentuating dresses. As you know, thats perfect for fighting in.... but I guess that show gets a free pass because its not supposed to be realistic and its an art style and its oh hey everything that can be leveled and is at gaming. Yeah lol its clear from that image that they have gone for the exaggerated body art style for everyone. The man is literally hilariously OTT buried in his armour. You think thats some male power fantasy? you think any man gets off on the idea of THIS been some idealized version of themselves? its to cartoon levels of none reality. Men and women are both atoned to the style the art team decided on. An art team no doubt comprised of at least some women. You seriously think real gamer girls find it offensive? male gamers find men looking like gears of war funny and gamer girls either like or just find the OTT equally funny because they know games aren't reality and we have plenty of games in the style of realism. Only the truly butthurt go looking for one games art style to sum up all of gaming. |
SpooksMar 21, 2016 3:30 AM
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Fai said: You're missing the point. The whole theme of MGSV is language and how it affects society as a whole. In the game, people speak of language as a weapon, a tool that humans rely on to push the wheels and ideas of society. However, Quiet serves as an anti-thesis to this statement. Quiet, being unable to speak because of parasites, proves that there are other ways of conveying ideas and emotions by communicating with her body. It's the whole point of why she dresses like that. She loves Snake, so she dresses and poses provocatively to communicate that idea. She can't communicate through the tool of language, yet she proves herself to be a strong independent character through simple actions. Generalizing Quiet by her surface characteristics just proves Kojima right. You should be ashamed of your words and deeds.As an example MGS5, Kojima might bullshit all he likes about why Quiet is practically naked, but the real reason is clear - its for the viewer to treat her as an object to lust after. |
PeenusWeenusCaimMar 21, 2016 3:35 AM
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| Sigh. Leave it to certain people to derail the thread due to an agenda they pushed not working out. Spooks said: Fai said: If you design a game where you take actual damage, dressing like a stripper takes way too much suspension of disbelief. > not dressed in armor = suspension of disbelief broken. Has a none armored character jumping on a big bird in their signature. *laughs in hypocrisy* ^ Im not seeing battle armour, breast plating on these girls. Seeing some hot pants on the one on the far right third ones dressed like a bondage mistress and everyone else in body accentuating dresses. As you know, thats perfect for fighting in.... but I guess that show gets a free pass because its not supposed to be realistic and its an art style and its oh hey everything that can be leveled and is at gaming. I knew someone will bring that up. You do realize that the characters in said show have literal force fields that can absorb damage right? You do realize its the world where characters can perform PlatinumGames level of physics defying things? You do realize that its a world where normal armor would do jackshit against the damage possible right? You do realize its a world where physical defense is about this effective: And most of things are either big enough or strong enough to just eat you with your whole armor? Its the world where personal preference and ease of use triumphs over physical defense. Only normal people chose to wear armor while hunters see no reason to limit their movement. You do realize that its still a world where the two characters that wear skirts into fights are actually called out on it. Its a society that celebrates diversity and freedom of chocie And characters are not treated like sexual objects because of how they dress. Its their CHOICE that fits their personalities, not to mention that designs are not even sexualized in the example you provided. For a choice of an example you chose one of the least problematic tv shows in existence :^) |
AhenshihaelMar 21, 2016 3:52 AM
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| Sexy female character = Sex object Sexy male character = MALE POWER FANTASY The delusion is real here |
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Fai said: You do realize that the characters in said show have literal force fields that can absorb damage right? You do realize that its a world where normal armor would do jackshit against the damage possible right? You do realize its a world where physical defense is about this effect: Its the world where personal preference and ease of use triumphs over physical defense. Only normal people chose to wear armor while hunters see no reason to limit their movement. You do realize that its still a world where the two characters that wear skirts are actually called out on it. Oh sweet delicious irony. The fact that you can't see yourself now going back on your own argument to defend a show you like it awfully tasty. One rule for gaming you don't agree with but different fantasy rules for your favorite show. You don't care if the games exist in a fantasy world where male and female forms are crazy exaggerated beyond reality. Argues for total realism in female armour and body design in all games because sexism male fantasy. Is totally ok with unrealistic female body armour and outfits because the fantasy tv show plot says they can wear those outfits. So thats ok.... But big boobs and lack of armour in video games? "problematic" lol Fai said: Its a society that celebrates diversity and freedom of chocie And characters are not treated like sexual objects because of how they dress. Its their CHOICE that fits their personalities. Unless they choose to be born with large breasts or want to show off their body in more revealing outfits (you know like wearing incredibly short hot pants) then would it be Problematic of them. Also they didn't choose anything they were designed by males designers. Some might say for all we know that choice of clothing is more sexually appealing to them than big boobs. How do you know what makes all men excited? you think male designers only do big boobs on their female characters? when they want to feel attraction towards them. I bet all of those shows characters are someones fetish. What makes them any less designed for male gaze if they were designed by men at all they were designed to be appealing. personal choice reflecting the character? but not for games, weak argument you're talking about male designers creating female characters one minute then talking plot and characters choices the next. If a female character chooses to be skimpy in a game then its perverted male designers or more sexual objectifaction of the female form aye lmao. So if your shows not idealized females Wheres the ugly fat main characters? why are they all slim? why the knee high boots? on that third one, why so much leg? seems kind of like most idealized fantasy anime girls for perverted male viewers and designers to me. If you want the honest gamer opinion I suggest attending a convention and asking the girls why so many pick revealing characters to dress as. Ask them if they're forced or if they find their characters unrealistic armour "problematic" they'll tell you its fantasy not reality and they love the character design. Realistic armour been the big issue in a world where a girl dressed as a gothic lolita can run up the side of a dragon. but muh realism doesn't work. You literally built your argument around realism in a medium full of fantasy then smashed your own argument down by arguing for fantasy beating realism for your own tv show. You checkmated yourself. |
SpooksMar 21, 2016 3:53 AM
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| Nipples are sensitive spots for males too. Throughout Dragon's Crown, the male dwarf is entirely shirtless, exposing his bare nips to the enemy. That's incredibly sexual. At least the sorceress is covered. |
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Spooks said: Oh sweet delicious irony. The fact that you can't see yourself now going back on your own argument to defend a show you like it awfully tasty. One rule for gaming you don't agree with but different fantasy rules for your favorite show. You don't care if the games exist in a fantasy world where male and female forms are crazy exaggerated beyond reality. Argues for total realism in female armour and body design in all games because sexism male fantasy. Is totally ok with unrealistic female body armour and outfits because the fantasy tv show plot says they can wear those outfits. So thats ok.... I am sorry but so far the only one backing out on your argument and relying on ad hominem attacks is you. And I do love the cherrypicking. I did say: Fai said: If you design game ridiculous enough to have characters shrug off damage with their biceps - okay. As for exaggeration part, again I answered but since it does not fit the agenda it is ignored: Fai said: Franchises like Bayonetta manage to pull off a sexually-free main character perfectly. Because they are aware and the character has an agency in their behavior. Dragon's Crown lacks that. But big boobs and lack of armour in video games? "problematic" lol That's not what is problematic about that, but it did not stop you from twisting my posts to fit your agenda before, has it? Unless they choose to be born with large breasts or want to show off their body in more revealing outfits (you know like wearing incredibly short hot pants) then would it be Problematic of them. Again, characters choosing to externalize their behavior and owning their sexuality =/= characters being objectified into sex objects Also they didn't choose anything they were designed by males designers. Some might say for all we know that choice of clothing is more sexually appealing to them than big boobs. How do you know what makes all men excited? you think male designers only do big boobs on their female characters? when they want to feel attraction towards them. I bet all of those shows characters are someones fetish. What makes them any less designed for male gaze if they were designed by men at all they were designed to be appealing. personal choice reflecting the character? but not for games, weak argument you're talking about male designers creating female characters one minute then talking plot and characters choices the next. If a female character chooses to be skimpy in a game then its perverted male designers or more sexual objectifaction of the female form aye lmao. So if your shows not idealized females Wheres the ugly fat main characters? why are they all slim? why the knee high boots? on that third one, why so much leg? seems kind of like most idealized fantasy anime girls for perverted male viewers and designers to me. Because the narrative does not treat those things as existing solely for the viewer titillation? Because the narrative does not treat the said concepts as focus of excitement? The designs are not forced upon the characters. They fit the personality, the agency of said characters. Again, my Bayonetta quote. Characters acting in a sexual manner is not what is wrong or problematic. Characters BEING that way as pandering for the viewer is what is wrong. Dragons Crown has no excuse or reason to have characters dressed like that. Its okay to call out developers on problematic things like that. If you want the honest gamer opinion I suggest attending a convention and asking the girls why so many pick revealing characters to dress as. Ask them if they're forced or if they find their characters unrealistic armour "problematic" they'll tell you its fantasy not reality and they love the character design. I am sorry. I doubt such thing as "gamer" exists beyond memes. Its just a term for people to hide behind in circle-jerks. Or are you saying such things as "movier" are real too? Gaming is a hobby. You do not define your whole existence around a hobby. Realistic armour been the big issue in a world where a girl dressed as a gothic lolita can run up the side of a dragon. but muh realism doesn't work. You literally built your argument around realism in a medium full of fantasy then smashed your own argument down by arguing for fantasy beating realism for your own tv show. You checkmated yourself. Again nice cherrypicking to fit your agenda: Fai said: If you design game ridiculous enough to have characters shrug off damage with their biceps - okay. If you design a game where you take actual damage, dressing like a stripper takes way too much suspension of disbelief. TR-8RCaim said: Nipples are sensitive spots for males too. Throughout Dragon's Crown, the male dwarf is entirely shirtless, exposing his bare nips to the enemy. That's incredibly sexual. At least the sorceress is covered. You like it or not but chest being treated as sexual for female but not male IS sexism too. Males are free to walk with b are chests in the beach,while females are not. Males are free to have body hair and show it off, while it is "gross" for females to have body hair. Also yes, males in Dragon's Crown emphasize power ,while females - sexuality. IF they wanted to go with over-blown, why not mix it up? As I said - have a character who is a gigolo stripper. Have a completely "feminine" male character who does not have oversized "so stronk" appearance and dresses for beauty. Give opportunities to save naked and helpless males in distress like they did with females. Have females designed not solely around their sex appeal since there are such males too. The fashion Kotaku did it was tasteless, but the intent of calling out problematic designs is only normal. |
AhenshihaelMar 21, 2016 4:09 AM
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worldeditor11 said: Should I reply to this? Cause I really tempted to. I say, heat the popcorn and sit back. |
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Fai said: Again, characters choosing to externalize their behavior and owning their sexuality =/= characters being objectified into sex objects By whose definitions yours? who decides which side they come down on beyond the individual viewer? how do you define characters choo- no actually characters don't choose anything they're all designed to be appealing to the viewer. You think the clothing in that show was purely designed for the characters sake? they were designed to appeal to its audience, to look fashionable to give cosplayers something to dress up as. Thats why none of your characters have any weight on their bones and all look like idealized anime school girls and yes those characters will be just as sexualized and attractive sexually to a bunch of male viewers. I have no doubt there's adult material out there for the show either. You're literally trying to define sexuality and sexulization and attraction by your own definitions and pressing that onto an entire medium. Its flawed and its why you can argue against all those things in video games and completely ignore them in something else you like. Selective bias is what its called. now lets address that post again. you argued that the style of clothing only there for titillation and not part of the character are over sexualized. Well unless your shows characters have expressing details about why they wear their clothing its just there for show as well and has no impact on the characters or show and is just as much there for appearance sake. If their clothing is not a plot point its just decoration, dressing for the character and is no different to any other characters out there. Now you can bias pick and choose which characters you consider "choosing to dress that way to reflect their personality" but I can project that same line of thought on any character as well. You're trying to sell a characters internalized choice in clothing (that doesn't exist btw because as we know they're designed) as justification for wearing hot pants and knee high fetish boots and then choosing to ignore those same rules of thumb for anything else. Its bias plain and simply and your argument of "character choice" but only for your show is flawed and baseless. You're imagining that the characters chose their outfits when clearly that can be imagined for any fictional character including your problematic ones. Whilst you defend one fictional show and denounce another for the same reasoning you have no case. Simply reason is you cannot objectively state sexual objectifaction because sexual objectifaction is in itself subjective. If I found those shows characters more sexually appealing than big boobed wizard girl then by your standards that show is more sexually titillating and objectifying and feeding of my type and plenty of other guys male gaze than the video game. I bet there's thousands more young men turned on by that shows characters than that one big boobed character. Deciding which character designs appeal to male eyes is subjective and I can tell you right now guys like all types of body so you might as well say all female video game characters are sexualized for the male view because all of them have male fans who like their body regardless of size or shape. Saying this character is sexulized because she has big boobs but ignoring say modern Lara croft who has her own share of male fans is severely limited views on sexual views on character appearance in media. and stop abusing the word "problematic" its a joke word. |
SpooksMar 21, 2016 4:29 AM
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 Literally summarizes every average Kotakek user in a nutshell. Thank the lord it's losing steam It was the third ranked comment on this horseshit: http://kotaku.com/the-fight-over-the-best-way-to-translate-fire-emblem-fa-1761106038 |
| I will always respect them for having balls to do actual journalism even if companies rage calling them "press sneak fucks" for doing their job and questioning the truth http://kotaku.com/leaked-e-mails-suggest-bethesda-misled-gamers-about-pre-1149092622 Nico- said: Literally summarizes every average Kotakek user in a nutshell. Thank the lord it's losing steam It was the third ranked comment on this horseshit: http://kotaku.com/the-fight-over-the-best-way-to-translate-fire-emblem-fa-1761106038 That comment is not wrong tho? 90's game translations were literally ass. It was either direct translation in broken robotic speech with no flavour(and you can't just 1:1 translate japanese to english - it sound slike an ass) . Or it was a literal fest of woolseyisms that turn it into entirely different game. "All your base are belong to us" is a meme for a reason. Now we get stuff like Final Fantasy War of Two Lions - a final fantasy tactics remake and the difference in quality of translated narrative is mind boggling. Is it an accurate translate? OF course not. Its an interpretation of the scene to english. But damn it sounds thousand times better than a direct translation because the subtext and feeling conveyed is also translated via narrative flavor. You can be angry at the Fates translation changes and stuff, but even then it still is better translated than most of 90's games. |
AhenshihaelMar 21, 2016 7:44 AM
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| I don't think there's any need for tabloid journalism anymore outside of celebrities and politicians. Gaming could use more truth and fun and less identity politics. |
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Hoppy said: I don't think there's any need for tabloid journalism anymore outside of celebrities and politicians. Gaming could use more truth and fun and less identity politics. That sounds awfully like "bawww how dare you add political correctness and politics into the fictional media" crying. Just because nobody would talk about it does not mean its not there. Want tabloid Journalism? Look at Polygon. |
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Fai said: And then they resolve the misunderstanding in a friendly manner, but let's omit that because that doe snot fit the agenda that is being pushed. From what I can gather from my rather brief research on the subject, it is a one-side giving way to the other. Even though you mentioned "they", the only guy keep digging this matter back from the grave was none other than the guy who started it. While I do find most of his criticisms of the designs are acceptable, I just don't see why is it a big deal. That guy literally made a mountain out of a molehill. Fai said: Because its focus is male titillation and malegaze, sexualizing and objectifying a female character into sex object. True but I don't see the problem. Fai said: There's a way to design a character and that does not involve turning them into a sex object. Of course. The problem lies on determining characteristics of design that promote a character as a "sex" object. You must understand that western views on the subject varies comparing to their eastern Asian counterpart. You can't just take a view from one society and apply to the other society without realising the basic differences between the two. As in culture and beliefs. Fai said: Friendly reminder that characters were supposed to look like humans wearing practical clothes: Uhh no. It is a fantasy setting and by convention, you shouldn't wear anything that seems practical for humans (or us) but should in the game lore. It is listed under "fantasy" for a reason. Not just a simple smack of keys and voila, fantasy amigo. Why the heck all of the game characters wearing "practical clothing" that tailored towards earth humans rather than fictional characters based on humans? I want to play a knight wearing heavy as a 300 pound American armour because it looks cool, not because it is practical. And you don't attach a claymore on your back. Nor do you wear a cape while flying. Sorry, but pragmatism is a real pain in the ass. Bringing that into games which should be promoting fun, is a bad idea in itself. Games aren't all about realism as you might have realised. Fai said: (I mean amazon's lack of pants still would be questionable but make sense in terms of the whole barbarian concept) You are pushing your own propaganda on what game should and shouldn't be. A hypocritical statement once you stated that other members omitting bits and pieces of the story just to push an agenda when you are pushing yours. Fai said: And somewhere along the way somebody most likely said "but 14 year old white boys wont buy it then!" I don't get it why you bring racism into this. This game primarily marketed towards the Japanese market (males if you wish so). Therefore, this poor taste of a remark has done nothing to prove your cause. True. If only you look at Odin's Sphere and stop digging deeper that is. Both games are based on an earlier title known as Princess Crown, character designer of the same person. Notice the similar name? Because both Dragon's Crown and Odin's Sphere are based on this very game. The former was conceived immediately after the release of Princess Crown but put on hold due to various difficulties. You see, it is no doubt that Dragon's Crown draws a lot of it's ideas from Princess Crown. Or at least, as a source of innovation. Now, let us see the designs in Princess Crown.         What do you know, it looks exactly the same! It is not a strong departure by any means. These design already existed but somehow, people seem to forget about them altogether. Out of sheer ignorance? Or just blatant deception? George designs are always true to the mythology the design are based on, and accentuate it to contrast and gain attention. He stated this in his public letter to Kotaku and it truly shows in his works as early in Princess Crown back in 1997. Skimpy is one thing. Problematic is another. I don't understand what are you trying to convey by "problematic". But I take it as fictional beings dressing to arouse horny males genitals to the eleven. And that is a problem because....? I don't get the reasoning behind why you are trying to create a problem when there isn't any. Fai said: A character's defining and only feature should NEVER be that she has two basketballs on a chest and wears a freaking towel I am impressed. Like really. Out of so many things you can define a character you choose boobs and the way she dresses. I blame society for this. The first thing I saw was not her boobs, but her extremely oversized wizard hat and hair colour that unique to herself. Despite the "sexualised" designs, her boobs don't really stand out. As I will attempt to prove now.  Like seriously, in the image posted above, the "things" or "objects" (if you prefer) doesn't contrast effectively between characters. Boobs doesn't automatically make you the player as an identifying thing. What attracts your gaze in the image above? Was it the boobs? Was it the skimpy clothing? You see, when the battle starts, it will not be the boobs which will be the player character ID card, it is totally something else. For Amazon, her body is just a second fiddle in differentiating her from other characters. It will be her large silver axe. That silver axe was made purposely silver to contrast the rather dark background. Notice that most of the other characters don't wear full plated armor except the knight? Yup, that's the knight with his shining armor. What about the mage? Well, besides her bare skin, it will be her hair and the piece of white cloth covering her breast. If her breast is even smaller than it is right now, I doubt she can be identified easily. Unlike the other mage who is a male with a capital M, she doesn't wear any sort of clothing that contrasts the dark background. The male mage has white hair, white trousers and white gloves. That's a whole lot of white. People might ask, why not the female mage wear the same thing too? The answer is simple, it doesn't fit the designers idea for the characters. Furthermore, it doesn't align with the game lore on what female mages are all about. Sporting white or silver hair for males are generally accepted as cool but females, rarely. From where I am from, females usually put beauty above coolness. I will admit, I didn't even notice the ranger was in the screen. Was it on purpose? Perhaps. She is the sole female that wears "practical clothing" like us humans do. Surprising considering she is an elf. What do you know, she possess the least characteristics that differentiate herself from other characters. Why not have more of her? Because players will get confused on who's who. Heck, I almost pass her off as an NPC if I haven't look the image for at least a hundred of times. Fictional characters are not designed as default to look like Kim Kardashian. They are design to stand out from other NPCs and attract player attention. How they achieve this, is debatable. But at least I can see that labeling two character designs as promoting sexual objects and nothing more is just poor judgement of your part. Things aren't that simple in game development. Character designs as you know, is part of the game development process. |
it would be sad to see kotaku go. It has some of the best actual journalists in the media @Fai is serious.Which is so sad.  But no worries, I'm here to fuck people over. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| Kotaku isn't ded yet, folks. Gotta wait it out and see. What is probably gonna happen is another bullshit SJW site is going to spring up for gaming reviews, or Anita Sarkeesian attempts to keep them afloat or something like that. |
| Well, someone already took it to themselves to debunk @Fai before me. Mehhhh... I'll see if there's any more resistance and act accordingly. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
worldeditor11 said: From what I can gather from my rather brief research on the subject, it is a one-side giving way to the other. Even though you mentioned "they", the only guy keep digging this matter back from the grave was none other than the guy who started it. While I do find most of his criticisms of the designs are acceptable, I just don't see why is it a big deal. That guy literally made a mountain out of a molehill. As I already said the tone was wrong. But the arguments were correct. And no shit - the one who initiates the conflict is the one who should be apologizing if he wants to. Of course. The problem lies on determining characteristics of design that promote a character as a "sex" object. You must understand that western views on the subject varies comparing to their eastern Asian counterpart. You can't just take a view from one society and apply to the other society without realising the basic differences between the two. As in culture and beliefs. Reason and common sense of modern society is not limited by culture or beliefs. Should I be okay with rape culture prevalence in India and arabian countries just because they are somewhere else too? Uhh no. It is a fantasy setting and by convention, you shouldn't wear anything that seems practical for humans (or us) but should in the game lore. It is listed under "fantasy" for a reason. Not just a simple smack of keys and voila, fantasy amigo. Why the heck all of the game characters wearing "practical clothing" that tailored towards earth humans rather than fictional characters based on humans? I want to play a knight wearing heavy as a 300 pound American armour because it looks cool, not because it is practical. And you don't attach a claymore on your back. Nor do you wear a cape while flying. Sorry, but pragmatism is a real pain in the ass. Bringing that into games which should be promoting fun, is a bad idea in itself. Games aren't all about realism as you might have realised. Fun does not have to come at a cost of offending someone. Comedians throw homophobic jokes to make fun too. Again rule of cool does not make you design and pose your characters as sex objects. Games can still be fun and not be problematic. In fact that is what games SHOULD strive towards - diversity and fun. I don't feel "fun" playing bald space marine saving the damsel for 50th time. Do you? Should you? There are ways to convey Dragon's Crown's aesthetics without objectifying one gender. I already gave examples. You are pushing your own propaganda on what game should and shouldn't be. A hypocritical statement once you stated that other members omitting bits and pieces of the story just to push an agenda when you are pushing yours. Wanting something to be within limits of not being offensive is not "propaganda". Its a common sense. Should I be okay with fictional works killing black characters or lesbians first? Should I be okay with racism in american law enforcement too? I don't get it why you bring racism into this. This game primarily marketed towards the Japanese market (males if you wish so). Therefore, this poor taste of a remark has done nothing to prove your cause. That does not change the target demo. Also yes I am aware that games targeted to Japanese market can be more problematic due to prevalent otaku neets there. Its why anime is evolving so slowly and why things like slut-shaming are so prevalent even in MAL threads. What do you know, it looks exactly the same! It is not a strong departure by any means. These design already existed but somehow, people seem to forget about them altogether. Out of sheer ignorance? Or just blatant deception? George designs are always true to the mythology the design are based on, and accentuate it to contrast and gain attention. He stated this in his public letter to Kotaku and it truly shows in his works as early in Princess Crown back in 1997. Ever wonder why nobody heard of those games? Society has evolved. I can post you some nice "video game" ads from 90s that totally were appropriate then, but would most likely get people fired now. Skimpy is one thing. Problematic is another. I don't understand what are you trying to convey by "problematic". But I take it as fictional beings dressing to arouse horny males genitals to the eleven. And that is a problem because....? I don't get the reasoning behind why you are trying to create a problem when there isn't any. Characters can be sexual without being designed in a way to titillate to male viewers sexual arousal. Its a problem because it treats women as objects to lust after, which IS part of real world rape culture - assumption that women are "asking" for it just because they look certain way. I am impressed. Like really. Out of so many things you can define a character you choose boobs and the way she dresses. I blame society for this. The first thing I saw was not her boobs, but her extremely oversized wizard hat and hair colour that unique to herself. Despite the "sexualised" designs, her boobs don't really stand out. As I will attempt to prove now. Her boobs absolutely stand out. And as I repeated multiple times there's a STRONG difference between portraying a character who owns her sexuality and creating a character who is sexualized and objectified for sake of the viewer. Ask yourself what is the main major difference between Bayonetta and Quiet. Like seriously, in the image posted above, the "things" or "objects" (if you prefer) doesn't contrast effectively between characters. Boobs doesn't automatically make you the player as an identifying thing. What attracts your gaze in the image above? Was it the boobs? Was it the skimpy clothing? You see, when the battle starts, it will not be the boobs which will be the player character ID card, it is totally something else. For Amazon, her body is just a second fiddle in differentiating her from other characters. It will be her large silver axe. That silver axe was made purposely silver to contrast the rather dark background. Notice that most of the other characters don't wear full plated armor except the knight? Yup, that's the knight with his shining armor. What about the mage? Well, besides her bare skin, it will be her hair and the piece of white cloth covering her breast. If her breast is even smaller than it is right now, I doubt she can be identified easily. Unlike the other mage who is a male with a capital M, she doesn't wear any sort of clothing that contrasts the dark background. The male mage has white hair, white trousers and white gloves. That's a whole lot of white. People might ask, why not the female mage wear the same thing too? The answer is simple, it doesn't fit the designers idea for the characters. Furthermore, it doesn't align with the game lore on what female mages are all about. Sporting white or silver hair for males are generally accepted as cool but females, rarely. From where I am from, females usually put beauty above coolness. I will admit, I didn't even notice the ranger was in the screen. Was it on purpose? Perhaps. She is the sole female that wears "practical clothing" like us humans do. Surprising considering she is an elf. What do you know, she possess the least characteristics that differentiate herself from other characters. Why not have more of her? Because players will get confused on who's who. Heck, I almost pass her off as an NPC if I haven't look the image for at least a hundred of times. All I see in that picture is a guy looking STRONK, one female turning her ass to camera and another female sitting in a seductive pose while wearing what amounts to a towel. Those designs and choices do not have anything to do with characters. They look like that for the viewer. Fictional characters are not designed as default to look like Kim Kardashian. They are design to stand out from other NPCs and attract player attention. How they achieve this, is debatable. But at least I can see that labeling two character designs as promoting sexual objects and nothing more is just poor judgement of your part. Things aren't that simple in game development. Character designs as you know, is part of the game development process. How about attracing player attention with good writing and gameplay instead of rewarding them with titilation? Nico- said: Not to mention, any work of journalism probably does have identity politics anyways, but that does not mean it should indoctrinate itself as gospel. Alternative viewpoints will just be shut down as "mansplaining" and "triggering" I bet. Kotaku has a fair share of clickbaity articles. Every single website does. That's what pays the bills. Friendly reminder that "psychological trigger" is a real term. As psych major I would know. Friendly reminder that matters of progressive society is not "identity politics" and are universal. People argued for keeping slaves too. KaoruMatsuoka said: Kotaku isn't ded yet, folks. Gotta wait it out and see. What is probably gonna happen is another bullshit SJW site is going to spring up for gaming reviews, or Anita Sarkeesian attempts to keep them afloat or something like that. Sarkeesian only funds her own pockets at the same time being part of the social extremist vocal minority that is polluting the waters for any possible debate. |
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worldeditor11 said: Someone please enlighten me on how designing a fictional character as a sexual object (whatever that means) promotes real life rape tendencies for men? Because it forms the social culture they grow up in. It does not make everyone go around raping people if that's what you are asking about. But it associates "gamer identity" with idea of being a straight male and the idea of female as something that is a reward. Its no different than with women's rights problems during the early movements. When an expectation of a "good woman" in fiction was that of a supportive reserved asexual wife sitting by her man. Writing sexually-empowered females is nothing wrong. But they need to feel like their own identities with agency of owning up that sexuality for themselves instead of for the viewer. I mean both Bayonetta is pretty much Bayonetta putting up a play and it works. She is not there to look pretty or seductive. She chooses to. Its part of her identity and her agency to be the person she wants. |
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