Zeth44 said: You're free to your own opinion but Akame Ga Kiru! is far from the cliche shounen. Akame Ga Kill! is a great manga - it has the decency to let characters who are killed off to stay dead. No BS Deus-ex machina or cheap plot device to either "save" them or "bring them back". The villains do give you a reason to hate them and wish them dead unlike a lot of the shounen villains who get killed for the most BS of reasons. I also especially like the balance between male and female and their powers being pretty equal ability wise (go Gender Equality! XD), although the harem and ecchi parts do get stale and fit into the cliche shounen trends. And finally, at least the villains have the decency to actually care for their own comrades (or...at least the Jaegars do), unlike most shounen where villain trashes their own comrade and pisses off the protagonist(s). That being said, there are still parts of it that echoes "cliche shounen", and one of them as mentioned above is the "harem" and "ecchi" parts of the manga. And also, unfortunately for me, I still feel the main characters are way overpowered, like most shounen. The villains get killed off like flies while only like... 3 of the Night Raid members have died thus far The villains have a MUCH higher death count to kill count ratio and it gets a bit annoying for me, as much as I hate them and the horrible things they do to people. Personally, I think Jojo's Bizarre Adventures do a MUCH better balance of kill and killed between good guys and bad guys. And plus, Dio Brande annoys the living shit out of me, even more so than the villains in Akame Ga Kill!. And the fight scenes are nothing spectacular either, though they may be better with animation. They're not particularly clever - good guy fights back guy - good guy struggles a bit, but then makes a comeback. Nearly. Every. Single. Time. So. Predictable. ARGH. Too... traditional shounen. Still, there are lots of things that make it good, even with those echoes of "cliche shounen", as I mentioned in the first paragraph, and I do try to overlook them. Anyway enough with the rant (please don't kill me, hardcore fans :P), I do look forward to the anime! |
DocNJan 28, 2014 10:12 AM
Nidhoeggr said: Zeth44 said: fueille said: Oh lord, why has thou forsaken me? I swear, why do all the cliche and boring ass shounen manga get adaptions? This is getting outrageous, it really is. You're free to your own opinion but Akame Ga Kiru! is far from the cliche shounen. it is. Deadman Wonderland, etc. have all doen this before. Hell, Go Nagai himself did this back then. They're not cliches just because they got used before, it's when they get overused. Otherwise they're just tropes, especially in our case. Also, cliches themselves are not even a problem, lampshade them and you're done. Oh wait, actually, some cliches are unavoidable, so there's that too. @DocN We know for a fact that they don't have as many Teigu users or overpowered soldiers to be able to fight the Empire, otherwise they wouldn't be the ones being overpowered by the Empire. So Night Raid members having died less isn't because they love the main characters (it is this too, because we actually FOLLOW what the mains do), it's also because if they'd die as much as the enemy, we'd lose all of them in a few chapters from how the story works. Let's not forget that shows pick their main characters because they have SOMETHING special over the others. What's the fun in having the narrator follow the footsoldier that dies a second after and just go from footsoldier to footsoldier? What's the point? |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: @DocN We know for a fact that they don't have as many Teigu users or overpowered soldiers to be able to fight the Empire, otherwise they wouldn't be the ones being overpowered by the Empire. So Night Raid members having died less isn't because they love the main characters (it is this too, because we actually FOLLOW what the mains do), it's also because if they'd die as much as the enemy, we'd lose all of them in a few chapters from how the story works. Night Raid doesn't, but the Revolutionary army does and that's why they're the ones fighting the Empire. Night raid just carries out assassin missions. And while I agree that if they'd die as much as the enemy, we'd lose them all pretty quickly, it does get annoying when you know that Night Raid will beat pretty much every group without much of a struggle. And when the good guys grind through enemies like this, it gets less exciting because each battle gets predictable too fast and falls into that traditional shounen loop of "good guy dominance". I almost even want to say they practically use "the power of nakama trumps all". Immahnoob said: Let's not forget that shows pick their main characters because they have SOMETHING special over the others. What's the fun in having the narrator follow the footsoldier that dies a second after and just go from footsoldier to footsoldier? What's the point? Yes, I agree. But on the other end of the extreme, what's the point of following a plot where the good guys almost never lose and the bad guys just go from foot soldier to foot soldier that dies a chapter or a few chapters after they're introduced? Good guys should come out on top, I agree. That's the point of the story and what we ultimately want to see. I just want to see a bit more balance between the two sides so that we can visualize that there is actually a "struggle" in the process to that victory. That's all I'm saying. No one likes a plot where we know who will win 99% of the time, just like we don't enjoy watching basketball or football games where it's a complete one-sided dominance. It's no fun. Also, stories are best when the good guys are the underdog so that they can come out victorious after that difficult climb filled with blood and sweat to the top. So do you see where how it might go wrong if the good guys are the ones that are overpowered right from the beginning? If you want to see a manga that does it right, let's have a look at Gantz. The two main characters are definitely underdogs from the beginning and they have to watch team after team get killed off before they finally are able to form one that lasts and even then, they are not invincible. |
DocNJan 28, 2014 11:13 AM
| "Night raid doesn't, but the Revolutionary army does..." And we got an explanation for this, they won't pump up Night Raid because they don't want to risk. Sending all their trump cards at once for what when the Night Raid does an enough good job by taking out the small fry? "it does get annoying when you know that Night Raid will beat pretty much every group without much of a struggle." Because members dying isn't struggling? Actual main characters dying and getting heavily hurt? And are you serious? Good guy dominates because it's from the point of view of the main characters, dude. If they DON'T dominate they die, they're still in a disadvantage anyway. Let's not forget that they had to run several times from battle. Fine, take the other end of the extreme and guess what you get. A really low number of people that read your light novel/manga/etc, do not forget that art itself is subjective, but it's a fact that certain patterns are loved by the majority of people. If you pick a main character, it's always because the main character either sees/does/etc something extraordinary, at least in his own universe with the universes laws. I guess you only read the chapters where the good guys won and that's it, you're not even looking at the chapters in-between. The latest chapters being an example. In most stories we know for certain who will win, unless there's a twist, but you can't know if this manga will not have a twist, so here, you kind of have nothing to say. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| I've never read the manga, but the plot description gives me great hope I'll enjoy this show. |
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Immahnoob said: And we got an explanation for this, they won't pump up Night Raid because they don't want to risk. Sending all their trump cards at once for what when the Night Raid does an enough good job by taking out the small fry? Because members dying isn't struggling? Actual main characters dying and getting heavily hurt? And are you serious? Good guy dominates because it's from the point of view of the main characters, dude. If they DON'T dominate they die, they're still in a disadvantage anyway. Let's not forget that they had to run several times from battle. Yes, they had to run, but we have yet to see the Jaegers succeed with even a single mission against Night Raid. Immahnoob said: Fine, take the other end of the extreme and guess what you get. A really low number of people that read your light novel/manga/etc, do not forget that art itself is subjective, but it's a fact that certain patterns are loved by the majority of people. If you pick a main character, it's always because the main character either sees/does/etc something extraordinary, at least in his own universe with the universes laws. Actually, if you have read recent some of the more recent shounen manga, a lot of manga artists are actually killing off characters or at least letting good guys lose more battles rather than letting them get a deus-ex machine save/trump because of the problem with shounen manga letting good guys be overly dominant. Manga and anime has been on the decline in Japan because shounen has gotten too predictable. Manga artists recognize that problem and found that they need to increase the stakes. In fact, there's already thread or two about this in the Anime Discussion section. And there are plenty of manga with good reception where the good guys are true underdogs like Gantz, Hunter x Hunter, Jojo's Bizarre Adventures, and more recently Attack on Titan, where they do lose more soldiers than they kill actual Titans, just to name a few. And trust me, Attack on Titan is getting a lot of hype. In fact, aside from manga, we can look at another example of a successful franchise where the good guys do get killed off - The Song of Fire series or the Game of Thrones show if you watch the TV version instead. These series have become so popular because they're a fresh breath of air from stories where good guys win all the time - it's because the author kills off both bad guys and good guys pretty much equally that it becomes less predictable and more emotional for viewers that they became so popular. Immahnoob said: I guess you only read the chapters where the good guys won and that's it, you're not even looking at the chapters in-between. The latest chapters being an example. In most stories we know for certain who will win, unless there's a twist, but you can't know if this manga will not have a twist, so here, you kind of have nothing to say. I actually have read all the chapters excluding the raws, including the in between chapters with rapes, murders, tortures, tragic backstories etc. Also, Akame Ga Kill as we all know is almost finished. Unless the author pulls a fast one on us (and the manga being shounen where we want to see the good guys win in the end), there's not much room or time left to pull off a grand twist. Not saying the chances are zero, but they are pretty low. Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you and I apologize if you feel that way. I respect your opinion and I know everyone is subject to their own viewpoints and preferences, so I won't force it on you. I'm just trying to say what's on my mind and put in my side of the argument. So, just my two cents. Anyway, that's it for me for the debate. I never intended for it to become one. I may have one or two gripes about it, but I've already gotten them out of my system. And just to be clear - I DO like the manga, as I've already said, which is why I've continued reading it and will continue reading it until the end. I even look forward to reading the prequel. The good side of Akame Ga Kill far outweighs any minor things I have to complain about and again, I'm done with that. I want to move on and discuss how I'm looking forward to the anime. It's going to be kickass! Can't wait to see some of the battle scenes in 3D! |
DocNJan 28, 2014 11:44 AM
| They lost only on one (two if you take into consideration Boris) mission, the other times, the Night Raid ran away, thus, the Jaegers actually won. There's no Deus Ex Machina going on, I doubt you even know what that means. Gantz was hated for its ending, also, all I have to say about all this shit you're saying is one thing... One Piece. That shit is the most cliched shit ever and it repeats itself to nausea, yet it's extremely popular, because of the patterns. And in all this shit you've pointed out? Guess what, the good guys still win, and it's obvious they will. There is no 'balance' in killing either 'good guys' or 'bad guys', they die from the circumstances in their universe, if they don't have enough teigu users but the ones they already have are expert enough to survive, that's what they will do, they'll survive with minimal losses, I hope you do know what suspension of disbelief means, even if in this case that shouldn't even be needed. You've read all of them? That's good to know, so what? That still does not matter in any way, you're claiming the Night Raid actually wins every time without any losses, which is wrong, unless you have a new definition of "lose" and of "losses". |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
Immahnoob said: They lost only on one (two if you take into consideration Boris) mission, the other times, the Night Raid ran away, thus, the Jaegers actually won. There's no Deus Ex Machina going on, I doubt you even know what that means. Gantz was hated for its ending, also, all I have to say about all this shit you're saying is one thing... One Piece. That shit is the most cliched shit ever and it repeats itself to nausea, yet it's extremely popular, because of the patterns. And in all this shit you've pointed out? Guess what, the good guys still win, and it's obvious they will. There is no 'balance' in killing either 'good guys' or 'bad guys', they die from the circumstances in their universe, if they don't have enough teigu users but the ones they already have are expert enough to survive, that's what they will do, they'll survive with minimal losses, I hope you do know what suspension of disbelief means, even if in this case that shouldn't even be needed. You've read all of them? That's good to know, so what? That still does not matter in any way, you're claiming the Night Raid actually wins every time without any losses, which is wrong, unless you have a new definition of "lose" and of "losses". Again, I'm done with the debate. I didn't intend to start one, nor am I going to continue it. I was just trying to state my own two cents and I've done that. All I have to say now is "to each their own." Toddler_Naruto said: I've never read the manga, but the plot description gives me great hope I'll enjoy this show. The manga is awesome! But it would also be cool to wait for the anime version to come out and be able to see the fights animated. Sometimes a lot of things in manga don't make sense to me until I see it animated, especially with a lot of moves in battle that are meant to be seen in a continuous movement rather than through cut and drawn panels. If it does come out in 2014 (anyone know when in 2014?), I have a feeling Akame Ga Kill is going to win a lot of awards for 2014, whoever gives them that is. Plus the I can't wait to hear Esdese's voice and see her come to life in an animation! She's definitely my favorite villain. |
DocNJan 28, 2014 11:57 AM
| Just pointing out a general thing: It doesn't matter if you kill a character or not (and just let him disappear, stay at another place, etc.) as ultimately both are plot devices to get rid of a character that served its role within the grand scheme of things. If anything, killing characters is a bit difficult as - with any organic process like writing - the story can develop into a direction that makes it necessary to have a formerly important character appear again to fill in a certain role (for example, showing how defeat changes humans). If you kill off all possible character for that you'll have trouble in certain situations as - even if you just make up new characters when you are in trouble like Kubo Tite admitted he does - they still lack the background to present your intentions in a meaningful way. So yeah, "killing off characters" is not *that* great if you don't know how to utilize this powerful tool. And given how standard the writing in AgK is I doubt he has the skills. |
NidhoeggrJan 28, 2014 12:50 PM
| Steel Ball Run anime when? |
| Fuck yeah,I'm really looking forward to this. |
scytheavatar said: Immahnoob said: Gantz was hated for its ending Gantz was hated for far too many things; bringing people back to life, Kei clone, the Vampires...... it had potential early on but ended up being nothing more than a random collection of slash flicks with no real plot. I feel that the same could be said about Akame ga Kill, it started out strongly but even with all the deaths it's pretty much a shallow, brain dead shounen like Bleach in disguise. But it still was popular. Anyway, you simply don't like shounens, that's not something anyone can fix. Shounens are for young teenagers after all. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| I hope this adaptation finally shows people how flawed this series is. |
| Now being incompetent – that’s what’s best, really. To be completely obtuse. To be so oblivious as to never think for a second about one’s purpose in life, to never think about the meaning of life, to never think about the value of life. Then this world would be paradise. Calm, peaceful, and serene. Trivial things would be major, and major things trivial, and life could be lived to its fullest. |
scytheavatar said: Immahnoob said: Anyway, you simply don't like shounens, that's not something anyone can fix. Shounens are for young teenagers after all. I don't like shallow shounen, doesn't mean that there's no good shounen series out there to be adapted. I am still waiting for a One Punch Man and Owari no Seraph anime. This man here found the objective way to detect shallow shounen, ladies and gentlemen! |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| And here's a better idea : How about you refrain yourself from casually throwing blanket accusations to other people for having different take on the series than you? |
| was waiting for it :3 |
| ahhh..... it really scared me to wait this manga became a crappy anime like other anime series im begging for movie or at least big budget ova for this... |
 |
| WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
'If people refuse to accept you, then I'll just accept you even more.' |
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