Mahou Shoujo Madoka★Magica Movie 3: Hangyaku no Monogatari Episode 1 Discussion

Esclair said:
No, she has to turn Witch. They were actively keeping her from turning witch, there's a scene right after Homura intentionally increases her curses and it shows the soul gem inside some kind of contraption that looks like it was cleansing it. From the series, its suggested that Kyubei gains energy from both when a magical girl turns into a witch, and the soul gem itself (he eats it the same way he eats wraith cubes). Soul gems seem to get more tainted naturally, it seems that in the movie Kyubei was only keeping Homura's soul gem cleansed so they can keep the balance in her dream world to observe Madoka. So they just need to take away the cleansing mechanism and let the girl turn into a witch inside the barrier, then harvest the grief seed afterwards. Remember that they can choose which direction energy goes in or goes out, so it should be possible for them to pull energy from within the barrier while preventing Madokami from entering.

FierceAlchemist said:


I just rewatched that scene on the camera rip. You're right that something's going on with the despair in Homura's soul gem and the containment field in the scene where she turns into a witch. Obviously they weren't able to cleanse it fast enough when Homura intentionally became a witch. Does make me question why Homura's soul gem didn't turn into a grief seed since she did become a witch.

Esclair said:


The soul gem has to crack in order for the witch to be 'born' in real world based on what we know from the series. It looks like Kyubei was somehow able to prevent the soul gem from cracking, either via the barrier or some other Kyubei tech. I don't think the soul gem turns into the grief seed, rather, the soul gem cracks and the grief seed comes from within it.

StormSky92 said:
I'm going to make a post in another thread, but I first need some clarification on something: do we know if it was the real Madoka in the fake city for the beginning part of the movie, or was she just what Homura's mind make up Madoka to be?

I've read somewhere that it was the real Godaka that got swallowed up by Homura's world, and she lost her memories until the world was undone. But i'm really not sure.

StormSky92 said:
I'm going to make a post in another thread, but I first need some clarification on something: do we know if it was the real Madoka in the fake city for the beginning part of the movie, or was she just what Homura's mind make up Madoka to be?

I've read somewhere that it was the real Godaka that got swallowed up by Homura's world, and she lost her memories until the world was undone. But i'm really not sure.

sunofdarkchild said:
There's something that I think has been lost in all the talk about Homura's actions, and that is the change in Madoka. At the end of the show/movie 2, she's all about 'these laws suck! I'm going to change them until I like them!' Then, at the end of this movie she's all 'laws are more important. It's wrong to destroy the law.' This is a HUGE change from her priorities in the past. when family and friends were paramount. Having this power has changed her. If Madoka is right now, then she was wrong in episode 12 and her act then was just as wrong as Homura's is, and if she is wrong now, then Homura isn't the only one who has been corrupted by power.

FierceAlchemist said:


I think the difference is the universe of the TV show had very cruel laws. Madoka saw how magical girls were suffering and wanted to change it. In the new universe, she IS the law so of course she doesn't want it changed. That said, I think if the Law of Cycles still works fine in Homura's universe and Madoka still insits on going back to the way things were, I'm gonna be mad. Though even if that's the way the next movie starts, I don't think Homura's world can stay a paradise forever. There has to be some repercussion, some balance.

FierceAlchemist said:
Does anyone know if we have a release date for the soundtrack? Yuki Kajiura was amazing as always in this film.

Esclair said:
If Madoka just mind wiped Homura none of this would have happened. Blame Madoka!

Dusk252 said:
If I might add something to that, Madoka, at the end of the series, didn't change anything too relevant in the universe. She didn't change laws at all, she just erased the existence of witches, which were, due to the balance concept that was established so well throughout the whole show, naturally replaced by the wraiths, and established herself as a new law that takes away magical girls when they're about to turn into witches - the Law of Cycles. That's literally the only thing she changed, or rather added into the universe. Homura's world not only seems deeply different in many points (I don't really know what that was at the end of the movie but gravity seems... weird?), her question was simply which were more important, the order or the happiness of one person. She didn't give Madoka any context, that's the Madoka like we saw in the flower field, one who didn't even believe she'd be able to sacrifice herself like that. Her answer was very Madoka-like, if you ask me. (she'll always take the more "common-sense" option, after all, that's her character).

No news on that yet, though I'd bet it would be bundled with the movie BDs. And yes, Kajiura was amazing as always.

If everyone had just let Homura die inside the barrier, none of this would have happened. Blame everyone! (except poor Homura. seriously, this movie just makes me want to give her a hug.)

Tachikoma1701 said:

The point is that they undo every character arc, every event, every decision made by characters, making TV series completely irrelevant and inconsequential. I don't know how anyone who like TV series, could be happy with this turn of events? And I'm sorry, but I'm not longer emotionally invested in this story, this world and characters, because they are essentially meaningless - they can be easily rewritten or rebooted. How is this a good thing? Especially considering, point which TV show was trying to make - choices have consequences. Not anymore. Only thing lamer thant that, would be if this was all Madoka's dream - which is still an option considering how much they love their dream sequences: dream at beginning of episode 1, puella in somnio, beginning of "Rebellion"...

And you really want to see yet another season of TV show, when Madoka is regaining her confidence and courage to do what's necessary? Been there, done that.

By the way, when people say stuff like, "But it resets the characters to zero!" in reference to all the universal "resets," I have to disagree. It sets their experiences and background to zero for the audience because we can't gauge everything they've gone through. However, we have a good idea. And by seeing a ton of different contexts for one character, we can see how they grow in different ways as a result of different settings and circumstances, helping us understand them a lot more. I, for one, think the characters of Madoka are a lot more realistic than a lot of characters for other shows because of this.
Like, I get that people question why Mami was the way she was in episodes 1-3, and how different she was in episode 10 after finding out about witches, and the usual reply to that (or assumption), as I've seen it, is "Oh, that's a different Mami." But it's not. Urobuchi mentioned that scene and said that Mami would've reacted much in the same way, no matter the timeline. Her character might have different experiences with different people, leading her to choose different paths, but she is still the same person. Likewise, this is something we can understand a bit better in Rebellion regarding Madoka's character. It's not that there are two different version of Madoka. It's just that she acts different in both situations. In fact, throughout the series as a whole, she has three different versions of herself that they show us: Her less-confident self from the beginning of the series, who says she thinks being a Magical Girl is all she wants out of the wish. Her much more confident self AFTER she became a normal Magical Girl, who wouldn't leave others (episode 10; inside Homura's Soul Gem in Rebellion). And her more open-minded self who gathered a lot of different experiences and willingly sacrificed her own existence for the sake of saving others, even if it meant leaving others behind (episode 12; Rebellion). Her choices differed in each iteration, but they were consistent with her character, and they make that more apparent in this movie when Homura suggests that Madoka doesn't know that she can and would leave her if she knew about the struggles of other Magical Girls and if she knew she had the power to do so. And the same goes for everyone else.

Of course, this is "characterization" rather than "character development." But in a story like Madoka, "characterization" is HUGE in understanding the message and the series' impact on the genre as a whole. Development is important to some people, but it was obviously not the point of the series, and I find nothing wrong with that, considering the characterization itself benefited from these hypothetical other alternate possibilities of these characters. We get to see them develop in such different ways that we learn more about who they are as a person than we would if the story only gave us the one linear possibility.

I mean, Homura's the only exception to this. And imagine if we got to see a different version of her, affected by completely different events... That would be kinda cool.

Aside from that, though, I also see some progression with the characters. Like, characters are given conflicts at the beginning of the series, but by the end, even in their alternate forms, the series seems to want to give the idea that they've still progressed in a way that isn't completely foreign to the events the audience has seen. I wouldn't exactly call this "development," but it's still nice to see that the characters aren't actually back to being their old, flawed selves. Well, except Madoka, whose outward confidence truly depended on her powers, which Homura took. Still, I don't see the future series re-developing Madoka to where her old development is over-written and pointless so much as simply giving her her old self back at some point. At least, if we are to believe the end of the movie and believe in the future writer(s) for the series...

FierceAlchemist said:


Madoka's wish also changed some characters, made some decisions and growth irrelevant (Kyoko sacrificing herself for Sayaka, Mami dying after Madoka proclaimed her friendship to her) but that doesn't take away any of my enjoyment of the original series. And I don't think it's gonna be Madoka regaining her courage. Rather, it's gonna be her trying to solve a mystery, these weird feelings that something is off about the world. As soon as she regains her memories and powers, she'll have all the strength and courage she needs.

On this whole idea of rewriting the universe, I'm going to quote what Juno016 said on an Anime News Network forum because he said it better than I can:

FierceAlchemist said:


Madoka's wish also changed some characters, made some decisions and growth irrelevant (Kyoko sacrificing herself for Sayaka, Mami dying after Madoka proclaimed her friendship to her) but that doesn't take away any of my enjoyment of the original series. And I don't think it's gonna be Madoka regaining her courage. Rather, it's gonna be her trying to solve a mystery, these weird feelings that something is off about the world. As soon as she regains her memories and powers, she'll have all the strength and courage she needs.

On this whole idea of rewriting the universe, I'm going to quote what Juno016 said on an Anime News Network forum because he said it better than I can:

Tachikoma1701 said:

Can I ask you to give me a link to disscusion with this Juno016 because he is clearly wrong. Character and plot development it's all that's metters - plus themes and messages. All those things are now completely irrelevant, they were rebooted. As I said on different forum:"It can be argued that a human is ultimately the sum of his experiences" - and I give you an example from "Ghost in the shelll" when people implanted with false memories acted completely differently that they normaly would, they personality changed. That's because our memories are big part of who we are, our memories shape our personality. Let me give you an exemple: what's the most important part of Homura's character, including Akemi/Akuma from "Rebellion"? Her love and devotion to Madoka. Now, let's say that Homura never meet Madoka in the first place... Then we know for a fact that she wouldn't be this same person which we know from TV series - she would be Moemura - someone radically different that person we know. Or take for exemple everyone's favorite superhero- Batman: delete Bruce Wayne's memories of his parents death and this guy will never have motivation to dress like a giant bat ;) and fight crime, you would completely change his personality! So, yes Madoka in Homura's dream world in "Rebellion", and Madoka in the end of the movie, is completely different person than Madoka we know from episode 12 of TV series. Movie zero out her character, and that's not a good thing. Because if nothing can be achieved in a story, if characters can never grow, change and evolve, if everything keeps being overturned, then the story becomes meaningless. Especially when you are dealing with story like "Madoka" which is basically coming of age story. You should be on a journey with characters, and you should be able to tell how their experiences changed them -that's a good writing. After "Rebellion" you can, at best argue that characters in the end, have some of their usual character traits but that's not enough, because character development is what's make characters interesting: new character traits appear, their personality become deep and richer, and - what's more important - you know that those characters learned something, and you learned something with them. Urobuchi supposedly said: "These days, static characters who don't change are popular". Maybe he should practice what he is preaching? You see my problem with Homu-devil is not even that she is IMO written out of character, but that her character regressed. As someone else in this thread already said: she couldn't protect Madoka, even though she was trying to do this hundred times over and she failed every single time - apparently she never learned her lesson and she try to do this again. And if you must tell as story about different version of those characters, how about alternate reality story which will not destroy, already established canon? You can eat cake and have it too, you know?

As for Mami - sorry, I like Tomoe but in TV series she is almost glorified redshirt, she don't have character arc, so it doesn't bother me that her character was alive in the end of TV show. Kyoko on the other hand, in episode 12 is angry and regretful that Sayaka died. She didn't have opportunity to die with Miki, but just like she said: they just started to become friends, so their relashionship was largely unchanged, it still mattered. Just like Sayaka's decision to stay dead. Now it's all throw into the garbage.

Tachikoma1701 said:


Can I ask you to give me a link to disscusion with this Juno016 because he is clearly wrong. Character and plot development it's all that's metters - plus themes and messages. All those things are now completely irrelevant, they were rebooted. As I said on different forum:"It can be argued that a human is ultimately the sum of his experiences" - and I give you an example from "Ghost in the shelll" when people implanted with false memories acted completely differently that they normaly would, they personality changed. That's because our memories are big part of who we are, our memories shape our personality. Let me give you an exemple: what's the most important part of Homura's character, including Akemi/Akuma from "Rebellion"? Her love and devotion to Madoka. Now, let's say that Homura never meet Madoka in the first place... Then we know for a fact that she wouldn't be this same person which we know from TV series - she would be Moemura - someone radically different that person we know. Or take for exemple everyone's favorite superhero- Batman: delete Bruce Wayne's memories of his parents death and this guy will never have motivation to dress like a giant bat ;) and fight crime, you would completely change his personality! So, yes Madoka in Homura's dream world in "Rebellion", and Madoka in the end of the movie, is completely different person than Madoka we know from episode 12 of TV series. Movie zero out her character, and that's not a good thing. Because if nothing can be achieved in a story, if characters can never grow, change and evolve, if everything keeps being overturned, then the story becomes meaningless. Especially when you are dealing with story like "Madoka" which is basically coming of age story. You should be on a journey with characters, and you should be able to tell how their experiences changed them -that's a good writing. After "Rebellion" you can, at best argue that characters in the end, have some of their usual character traits but that's not enough, because character development is what's make characters interesting: new character traits appear, their personality become deep and richer, and - what's more important - you know that those characters learned something, and you learned something with them. Urobuchi supposedly said: "These days, static characters who don't change are popular". Maybe he should practice what he is preaching? You see my problem with Homu-devil is not even that she is IMO written out of character, but that her character regressed. As someone else in this thread already said: she couldn't protect Madoka, even though she was trying to do this hundred times over and she failed every single time - apparently she never learned her lesson and she try to do this again. And if you must tell as story about different version of those characters, how about alternate reality story which will not destroy, already established canon? You can eat cake and have it too, you know?

As for Mami - sorry, I like Tomoe but in TV series she is almost glorified redshirt, she don't have character arc, so it doesn't bother me that her character was alive in the end of TV show. Kyoko on the other hand, in episode 12 is angry and regretful that Sayaka died. She didn't have opportunity to die with Miki, but just like she said: they just started to become friends, so their relashionship was largely unchanged, it still mattered. Just like Sayaka's decision to stay dead. Now it's all throw into the garbage.

daedroth4 said:
Managed to see this movie in the theater last week, but haven't decided if this is a good addition to the series yet. I will say that the first time watching Rebellion I felt unsure what to think of the movie and didn't really like it. The first thing that stood out was how Rebellion feels very different from what I know of Gen Urobuchi's writing, having seen Fate/Zero, Psycho-Pass, and the original PMMM series. There were certain elements from F/Z and PMMM in particular that I really loved; dramatic irony, the hero's tragic downfall, the way the characters struggle and display heroism in spite of how cynical their worlds are, and how despite appearances both shows were very grounded and authentic in their ideas, characters, and message. As pretty much all of Rebellion takes place inside of a witch barrier, the whole show feels off the wall with the symbolism and Shaft's crazy art going into overdrive. I don't consider this to be a mark against the movie, but it clashed pretty hard against my personal preferences. I liked how the original series balanced its surrealism of the witch barriers with time also spent in the real world. On the other hand, this art style also manages to evoke a very unsettling feeling that is perfect for a lot of important points throughout the movie, and I find myself appreciating it more when looking back on Rebellion's plot and the reasons why it was made this way.

However as with the art style, I feel that Rebellion as a whole is a more unbalanced story compared to the series, in both a good and bad way. At this point I still do not like the first quarter of the movie, all the way up to when Homura starts noticing what is wrong with her surroundings. I understand the purpose of it, but I think it went on for too long and I really dislike both the transformation sequence and the two songs. I remember seeing those scenes for the first time and just shaking my head, because at that point in the movie there was almost no trace of the Madoka series that I had loved. Thankfully I think that the rest of the movie was solid in terms of plot. There are some great convos throughout between Homura and the other characters, and these dialogues are even better upon rewatching Rebellion (I was going to catch up on watching The Hobbit this weekend but decided to rewatch Rebellion instead. Twice.) At this point the art for me starts to feel like a help instead of a hindrance, starting with the eerie atmosphere from the faceless citizens, and some great imagery like Homura venerating the stone carving of Godoka when describing how much Madoka's sacrifice was a gift to the world.

The characters are another section where Rebellion feels different from the series. I look very highly upon the Madoka series because of how densely developed its plot and characters are, in the way that the quality of the cast's characterization defies the relatively limited screentime they have. I think a big factor in that was the focus on self-determination by the characters in the series, and how they are put in control of their destinies in a way that many other plots fail to do for all of their characters. Unfortunately I don't think Rebellion does this for all of its main characters; Madoka, Mami, Kyouko, and Nagisa don't really get that much out of this movie in terms of characterization. However, while I think most of the main characters in the original series shared the spotlight together, Homura is the real star of Rebellion. There was a lot of discussion going around on some forums this last week over the specifics of Homura's character motivation in the movie; everything from her decision at the climax down to the broken teacup/wasted apple and why exactly her familiars are throwing tomatoes at her. After reading those posts and rewatching Rebellion I think that Homura has shown herself to be a truly outstanding character. The nuance of her characterization in Rebellion and how she was able to convincingly pull off that character arc is really incredible IMO.

Overall my opinion of the movie has become more favorable over this past week. I do personally miss the ending of the original series, which I think wrapped things up perfectly. The ending of Rebellion was also good in a kind of tragic way, but it does feel like a conclusion that needs a sequel to really be complete. I still like the Madoka series better than this movie because I think the series was very clean in its execution and is both excellent and well-rounded in its plot and characters. However I also think Rebellion is good movie and on the whole consider it to be a success.

Luxanna said:
The cake scene and transformation sequences were REALLY out of place. Basically to the extent that they were cringeworthy.

FierceAlchemist said:


The transformations didn't bother me too much (they were very well animated) but I was definitely going "Huh?" during the cake scene. Apparently, this is Homura's ideal version of reality.

Luxanna said:
The cake scene and transformation sequences were REALLY out of place. Basically to the extent that they were cringeworthy.

FierceAlchemist said:


The transformations didn't bother me too much (they were very well animated) but I was definitely going "Huh?" during the cake scene. Apparently, this is Homura's ideal version of reality.

sunofdarkchild said:
I too was really unsure about the movie upon the first viewing, but it grew on me because once I started thinking about it I was comfortable with the movie being a deconstruction of the show.

If there's one thing I call BS on, it's how op Mami's ribbons are. She can create a perfect clone of herself now? Was it even her fighting in the first place? After that awesome battle it would be a big disappointment if it was just Mami controlling a puppet.

FierceAlchemist said:


My take on Mami's ribbons was that she was controlling the puppet's every move from a distance. If she somehow pre-programmed her ribbons to do all that before the battle even started, there's no way Mami would have ever lost to Charlotte.

sunofdarkchild said:
Well, Charlotte did tank everything Mami had, including her absolute best shot, so een with a ribbon puppet I don't see what Mami could do other than last longer. And I'm not sure why controlling the puppet from a distance is any better than pre-programming it. It still means that this awesome fight between the most 'senior' magical girls was actually just one magical girl vs an inanimate mass of threads. And it would still allow Mami to take out witches without putting her own life in danger ever.

I'm choosing to believe that the fight really occurred, and that Mami switched places with her puppet close to the end. They already had to nerf Homura's time stopping and gave Mami automatic weapons she never used before to keep up with Homura's supply of automatics. That's the upper limit of how much I can accept them weakening Homura and building up Mami just to make the fight happen without Mami getting slaughtered immediately.

Actually, I think Mami made the switch when they finished and Homura let time flow again so that all of there bullets caused that much damage. There was a lot of smoke, and when it cleared Homura was still breathing hard but Mami suddenly was breathing normally again even though she was just as out of breath before.

Janethan23 said:
In some ways I have to agree with Tachikoma1701,
I am aware of the point you guys are saying about characters remaining consistent regardless of situation or timeline; if that were the case: Mami's tragic death (ep3) not only became meaningless but gave us a view that when things become really desperate she'll be a panicking coward that will shoot comrades to save herself. How can this be when the other 4 magical girls follow her as their leader? I like Mami but if she remained consistent then I don't like her at all for what she is capable of doing.

Janethan23 said:


Mami she is really very skilled or op against Homura; since the movie showcased how much she can nullify Akemi's time stops by attaching an invisible thread which was only severed by accident. Her weapons maybe single shot rifles but that's all she needs because she can conjure hundreds of them in an infinite number of times rapidly you'd think she had automatic weapons herself. We only saw one thread attached to Homura; what more if Mami spread out her invisible threads in different directions like Shougen Kazamachi

In the movie, we have Madoka going inside Homura's soul gem to rescue her. The process of Madokami's "cleansing" is never really made clear in the TV series, as we are simply shown her shattering and absorbing corrupted soul gems. The movie gives us an alternate angle on this.

Rebellion is based on the premise that Kyubey is conducting an experiment to observe how The Law of The Cycle functions. After watching the movie, I wonder if Madoka enters the soul gems of all Magical girls just as they are about to become witches and purifies them from within. Going back to the TV series, I wonder if this is what is happening in the final theater scene between Madoka and Sayaka. Kyubey's description of chicks within eggs seems relevant here.

The Law of The Cycle aims to prevent Magical Girls from being born as "cursed witches". But rather than simply killing them as a type of abortion, all Magical Girls are absorbed into The Law of The Cycle to live on as "purified witches". As part of the Madokami, they share a portion of her omniscience, including the knowledge of their original tragic lives.

FierceAlchemist said:


Thanks for the link. Well, just like I said before: let me ask you one simple question: what was the point of TV series, what was the point of developing characters in TV series, telling as stories and showing us themes just to throw it all in the garbage? And character growth was integral part of this series, it was a good thing, something that made this series worthwhile. I don't know how anyone could be interested in characters when decisions made by those characters are irrelevant and their growth is non existent? Why anyone would be emotionally invested in this series, when everything will be conveniently reset in the end - and that means nothing that we saw mattered? Want to see Kyoko as a happier person? Great, just told us a story how she become this happier girl, don't say: deus ex machina did it! That's what character development is for! Look how Kyoko's character changed in TV series. She started out as idealistic daughter of pastor - she wanted to help her father to change the world for better -, she made unethical wish and that's ended badly, she was left alone, so she become selfish, uncaring and opportunistic. She meet Sayaka - their ideas collide. First she hated Miki, because Sayaka reminded her of how naive and idealistic she, herself once was. Then she began to feel solidarity and even responsibility for a girl who made this same mistake as she once did, and she even begun to feel sort of admiration for Miki's stubbornness. Sayaka remind her of the time when she herself was idealistic and she regain some of her lost idealistic naivete, and thanks to that she was able to sacrifice her own life just to not let Sayaka die alone. You see, that was character arc. Can you say this same about Kyoko in "Rebellion"? And now development she and other characters in TV series had, is simply meaningless.

Tachikoma1701 said:
Thanks for the link. Well, just like I said before: let me ask you one simple question: what was the point of TV series, what was the point of developing characters in TV series, telling as stories and showing us themes just to throw it all in the garbage? And character growth was integral part of this series, it was a good thing, something that made this series worthwhile. I don't know how anyone could be interested in characters when decisions made by those characters are irrelevant and their growth is non existent? Why anyone would be emotionally invested in this series, when everything will be conveniently reset in the end - and that means nothing that we saw mattered? Want to see Kyoko as a happier person? Great, just told us a story how she become this happier girl, don't say: deus ex machina did it! That's what character development is for! Look how Kyoko's character changed in TV series. She started out as idealistic daughter of pastor - she wanted to help her father to change the world for better -, she made unethical wish and that's ended badly, she was left alone, so she become selfish, uncaring and opportunistic. She meet Sayaka - their ideas collide. First she hated Miki, because Sayaka reminded her of how naive and idealistic she, herself once was. Then she began to feel solidarity and even responsibility for a girl who made this same mistake as she once did, and she even begun to feel sort of admiration for Miki's stubbornness. Sayaka remind her of the time when she herself was idealistic and she regain some of her lost idealistic naivete, and thanks to that she was able to sacrifice her own life just to not let Sayaka die alone. You see, that was character arc. Can you say this same about Kyoko in "Rebellion"? And now development she and other characters in TV series had, is simply meaningless.

Tachikoma1701 said:


But regression pretty much made original series completely irrelevant. If nothing can be achieved in a story, if characters are rebooted and everything keeps being overturned, then the everything becomes irrelevant and inconsequential. And how much you gonna bet that this Homura Akuma situation will be resolved with yet another universe reset? And tell me - what was the point of TV series when we are back at square one? Deja vu, much? Homura's insecurities - but that was already resolved in TV series: in the end she was confident, strong, she had mission in live and she was even relatively happy. As for rest of your speculation - some of them are potentially interesting but that's only IF characters would heve their memories from previous life, only then, their character development would not be irrelevant and forgotten. But I still don't like the fact that all of them got out of the jail free card, that their decisions didn't matters at all.

FierceAlchemist said:


I would highly recommend reading The Different Story manga. It's an alternate timeline that delves into Mami and Kyoko a lot more than the TV show. I don't think Mami ever shoots her comrades to save herself. It's more like a mercy kill. "If we're going to become witches, then its best if we all die before we start hurting others."

Mami is too noble, kinda like Sayaka. They're so focused on justice that when they realize how horrible the magical girl system really is, they break down. I think in Rebellion, Homura says something to the effect of "I didn't tell you because you've always been to naive and fragile." Although she's the strongest and cheeriest of all the girls at first glance, I'd argue that mentally/emotionally she's one of the weakest.

Janethan23 said:


Ok let me point out this over used scenario we call "alternate timelines" which is becoming much more of a cop out and a hindrance to the characters actual development. It's because of this we get inundated with information about the characters on what they may or may not do.

This play on alternate universe/timeline is also misleading because who is actually the real character we're trying to follow? It's fine a couple of times to challenge and blow our minds but to always have it played out over and over makes the entire plot lose its appeal.

So do we disregard Tomoe's decision to play Dr.Kevorkian who by the way acted prematurely when she hastily robbed everyone the freedom to decide what to do next?

FierceAlchemist said:


I'm not saying what Mami did was justified, but it makes sense for her character.

As for the alternate universe thing, The Different Story actually delves into Kyoko and Mami's pasts, how Mami was a teacher for Kyoko until her dad went crazy. That all impacts the actual TV show. Later on in the manga, Kyoko comes to Mitakihara when Mami is still alive. Then things play out differently than the TV show.

Personally I don't mind the alternate timeline stuff in Madoka because, unlike other alternate universe stories in other anime, there is an actual narrative reason for these different timelines to exist: Homura. Covering alternate timelines allows the creators to focus on different characters and stories. The TV show focuses on Homura, Madoka, and Sayaka primarily. If a mangaka ever wanted to explore Mami's character more in the present time, it would have to be a timeline where she doesn't die so early.