| I get the feeling Kyuu hasn't heard of outsourcing. Style does not an anime make. If anime were defined by art style, Panty & Stocking, Crayon Shin-Chan, Fist of the North Star, Psycho Pass, Flowers of Evil, Abe's trilogy, Yoshiura's trilogy, Ghibli movies, Satoshi Kon's works, Kaasan: Mom's Life, Nodame Cantabile, Steins;Gate, and many, many more would not be considered anime or would be hard-pressed to pass as one. |
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Akito_Kinomoto said: I get the feeling Kyuu hasn't heard of outsourcing. In terms of politics - I am vehemently opposed to outsourcing. American business seek to gut the United States of the American worker, while outsourcing jobs like manufacturing to information technology to cheap labor in places like Pakistan, India, and China. So, don't even go there, buddy. >:( In any case, when it comes to the anime (and manga) style, a person does not have to be born in Japan to learn the style. Many anime style fan artists are already all over the world drawing in the anime (manga) style. Sure, their work is not refined to produce any kind of commercial work. However, the pathway and learning curve is available to anyone, who wishes to partake in it. If RWBY came out of nowhere - and people didn't know who the author was -- I'm willing to assume a number of people would presume it to be anime. But of course, something like that is mere speculation, because the opportunity to catch people off guard on this notion had passed. Panty & Stocking, Crayon Shin-Chan, Fist of the North Star, Psycho Pass, Flowers of Evil, Abe's trilogy, Yoshiura's trilogy, Ghibli movies, Satoshi Kon's works, Kaasan: Mom's Life, Nodame Cantabile, Steins;Gate Out of that list, I probably have only watched 3 of them: Fist of the North Star, Steins, and some of the Ghibli movies (not all). Obvious anime based on the style definition. Crayon Shin-Chan is the prime example of what a cartoon looks like. For the rest, I'll base off a simple Google image search: Panty & Stocking -- both anime and non-anime versions exist. Psycho Pass -- obviously anime Flowers of Evil -- yea, it's anime (but I had to look a bit closer) Abe's trilogy -- Doesn't exist. Jerk. Yoshiura's trilogy -- Neither does this one. >:( Ghibli movies -- obviously anime Satoshi Kon's work -- like Paprika? Yes. Kaasan: Mom's Life -- Cartoon Nodame Cantabile -- Anime I'll even add one more - that I even liked: Kodomo no Omocha -- Cartoon Yea, the real disturbing part on your end -- some Japanese work may end up getting relegated as "cartoon". I have to wonder: how do you actually feel about that? As a note, that point is already covered here: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/lexicon.php?id=45 And before you slap that "anime definition" thing in my face again -- keep in mind, that entry actually summarizes both sides of the argument. Anyways, your side of the argument will be in trouble IF (and a big fat IF) this whole anime stylization actually grows within among domestic studios. So far, it's only Avatar and RWBY in the discussion, with The Boondocks at a slightly distant third. |
KyuuALAug 3, 2013 12:50 AM
| Click on this. I dare you. | MAL Fantasy Football League | Currently Watching List RWBY Club. RWBY is anime. Deal with it. |
KyuuAL said: Abe's trilogy -- Doesn't exist. Jerk. Yoshiura's trilogy -- Neither does this one. >:( These are famous directors. Akito_Kinomoto is referring to the 3 works each that put them on the map. Abe is Yoshitoshi Abe. His big 3 are: Haibane Renmei, Serial Experiments Lain, and Texhnolyze. Yoshiura is Yasuhiro Yoshiura. His big 3 are: Eve no Jikan, Pale Cocoon, and Sakasama no Patema. |
| It doesn't really fall in line with Anime, it's more of a one man doing cool things kinda deal. You wouldn't put RWBY here on MAL for the same reasons you wouldn't put Eureka 7 on newgrounds. |
KyuuAL said: Kodomo no Omocha -- Cartoon I'm guessing you haven't really seen that many Shoujo Anime? That is Shoujo Art-style http://myanimelist.net/anime/6586/Yumeiro_P%C3%A2tissi%C3%A8re http://myanimelist.net/anime/11457/Chibi%E2%98%86Devi! |
xNamelessOrderx said: Well then you see it different than the site. The site doesn't take into account the style, only where they are from and who they are aimed at, among a couple of other things. So there's really no questionable anime, it either fits or it doesn't.Just my 2 cents: I consider anime a style of animation (and not defined only by the country of origin) and it's obvious for me that both Avatar and RWBY are anime. I'd really like you to have a poll when there is a questionable anime/cartoon to let users = us decide if we want a particular series in the database. This site is for us, after all, isn't it? And Shin chan is an anime, therefore of anime style. How does Avatar and RWBY looks similar to it to you? |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
IntroverTurtle said: And Shin chan is an anime, therefore of anime style. How does Avatar and RWBY looks similar to it to you? No, Shin-chan is a cartoon, labeled as an anime on the basis of where it is made (and nothing more). Also, this is how I feel about the entire argument: Last post said: We attempted to define style guidelines for OEL "manga" series before we removed them in the past, but we gave up on the idea. It is too subjective and difficult to define a database based on style. User voting to determine series inclusion does not work either. We already need to deal with rating trolls and review upvoters; extra accounts would just be made to sway these votes, too. As for Korean and Chinese animation, there were already some series in the database at the time of writing the guidelines. Since we decided to keep manhwa and manhua in the manga database, keeping Korean and Chinese animation as well allowed the database guidelines to be matched with each other. My response to that: Remove them, in order to retain consistency. Else, MAL's guideline on this issue has no credibility. |
KyuuALAug 4, 2013 9:39 PM
| Click on this. I dare you. | MAL Fantasy Football League | Currently Watching List RWBY Club. RWBY is anime. Deal with it. |
| (twebty to six, 48hours deprivation. Sorry if this rambles) The thing is, it is sort of like a trademark. I mean, look at manga. Do we call the korean version of manga, manga? Nope, it is manwha...manhua...man... You get the point. Really the point of difference is that other cell animation/2Dcomputer animation and the like does not have any other name than being a 'cartoon' japan is really the only one in the western world that has ot's own name as a scene. So in a sense, it us unofficially trademarked. I don't see how it is degrading or offensive at all. RWBY, is essentially a glorified/hyped-up fan project.say I'm just another fuckoff (no, I'm not calling the guy behind RWBY a fuckoff, I'm just using a general term that maybe only I use as a general term) who for a college project makes an anime-style show, complete with ameteur voice-actresses and everything and say it get's popular. Does that mean my project can be allowed on the MAL. If so, does that mean anyone else's project get's allowed also? To say, and I'm not being degrading. RWBY is basically a Doujin that isn't based off anything. Hell, look that some of the Touhou Doujin Anines, in my opinion, they look a lot better than RWBY and yet only one is on the site. I can't speak for the MAL mods, but from the viewpoint of a guy who contributes to another archive-type site on the interbwebz stuff like this is used to maintain order. If MAL starts accepting some western exceptions, or small pet projects then some other person will argue to have Batman: TAS added on because it was done by TMS but everything else was done by Americans. Then onto Animaniacs, and then essentially the entirety of late 80's/early 90's American Cartoons Then slowly and slowly it would just turn into a general Cartoon/Animation database. Sure, there are good anime-style cartoons and the like, I fucking love Teen Titans. But, if everything is american made and it uses the, let us just say, Japanese Art Style, then what does Panty and Stocking count as. That was deliberetly made to be an homage/drunk idea to the western adult cartoons. The production and everything was done by Gainax. In the end, RWBY is just an homage piece. An extremely well-animated homage piece with nit even dub-level Voice Actresses. I'm pretty sure they just nabbed the femalee roosterteeth employees or something and just payed to have the voice of Cortana for one part. I'm pretty sure the interwebz has a lot of other anime-homage pieces. RWBY is just getting more attention b/c it is from some company(?) (truthfully, never even heard of roosterteeth till like, two months ago) |
P_D_SAug 4, 2013 6:02 AM
| Thread Locked. Since we will not be adding RWBY to the database, I think this thread - in terms of a support topic and MAL's DB - is long over. The content that you are arguing about (is anime style or origin?) is probably endless like the sub versus dub thread. If you want to have a general debate about that (and not about whether it should be included on MAL), then you can have it elsewhere. In terms of the Anime DB, we have long ago taken our stance and we are not inclined to change it. Anime is, by definition of our guidelines, animated works that originate from Japan. If we changed the guidelines to a definition of style rather than origin, many series currently in the database - that are legitimately Japanese anime - would be removed. Furthermore, it would become difficult to define guidelines on what to keep out and what to allow in. In the end, it would be chaos. Databases need to have a scope to be useful. If we added everything and anything based on the whims of the userbase, the database would become chaotic and would lose its focus. We are not saying these American series are "not good enough" to be called anime. We are saying that they do not meet the guidelines we have set up to define the scope of our database. And thus, we will not be adding them. We attempted to define style guidelines for OEL "manga" series before we removed them in the past, but we gave up on the idea. It is too subjective and difficult to define a database based on style. User voting to determine series inclusion does not work either. We already need to deal with rating trolls and review upvoters; extra accounts would just be made to sway these votes, too. As for Korean and Chinese animation, there were already some series in the database at the time of writing the guidelines. Since we decided to keep manhwa and manhua in the manga database, keeping Korean and Chinese animation as well allowed the database guidelines to be matched with each other. tl;dr: MAL defines anime based on origin, not style, and we will not be changing our stance in the forseeable future. If you'd like to discuss style versus origin in a broad sense (and not about whether it should be included on MAL), please feel free to discuss it elsewhere. Since the answer to this is clear in terms of the Anime DB - no, it will not be added - I don't believe there's anything more to discuss here. |
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