| Shinn as a character was good he's fiery one and a stark contrast to all those other blank faced stone cold pilots that dont seem to have a solid motivation in what theyre doing i seriously hated Shinn, but I consider characters that I hate or love good coz they were effective, a character that doesnt spark a reaction from me is total fail |
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| and i really liked Durandal's declamation on the causes of war which pretty much describes war in our present world, this is pretty much explored throughout the show the same way that g gundam is a super robot show people fail to see, GSD is a show about war theater, and people fail to realize this, id give you plenty of time to research what war theater is all about |
Takuya-kunMar 31, 2009 7:35 AM
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| G-Saviour. That is all. |
Rasenore said: patrickcolasour said: are you guys kidding me all this hate for seed and seed destiny? Come on now we all know that G gundam was a total joke. Ridiculous mobile suits, story line, and characters it just did not work for me (even though I own the box set of the series lol) don't worry cosmic era fans I got your back. G Gundam was intended to be a super robot series. And is alot more successful in what it aims to do and be than the CE Universe generally is. I'll give it that SEED wasn't really too bad, it was watchable. But Destiny is where it really took things too far and was a pretty poorly made series. I'm guessing you probably think Code Geass and Gundam 00 S2 are among some of the best series ever made, right? Hell no bro Im a UC guy, Zeta gundam is the best series. I just hated whatching them getting in their gundams squeazing into their tights like power rangers, its just ridiculous in the first episode domon saves a kid hanging fifty feet in the air on a rope by kicking a bullet which brakes the rope and jumps up like nothing and saves her. Just an example. But ya your right destiny wasn't good, I just hate G gundam so much lol. |
patrickcolasour said: Rasenore said: patrickcolasour said: are you guys kidding me all this hate for seed and seed destiny? Come on now we all know that G gundam was a total joke. Ridiculous mobile suits, story line, and characters it just did not work for me (even though I own the box set of the series lol) don't worry cosmic era fans I got your back. G Gundam was intended to be a super robot series. And is alot more successful in what it aims to do and be than the CE Universe generally is. I'll give it that SEED wasn't really too bad, it was watchable. But Destiny is where it really took things too far and was a pretty poorly made series. I'm guessing you probably think Code Geass and Gundam 00 S2 are among some of the best series ever made, right? Hell no bro Im a UC guy, Zeta gundam is the best series. I just hated whatching them getting in their gundams squeazing into their tights like power rangers, its just ridiculous in the first episode domon saves a kid hanging fifty feet in the air on a rope by kicking a bullet which brakes the rope and jumps up like nothing and saves her. Just an example. But ya your right destiny wasn't good, I just hate G gundam so much lol. If you don't like G Gundam it doesn't bother me anyway, 'cus super robot obviously isn't really your thing, I understand where you're coming from anyhow. I, personally have yet to properly watch G Gundam though but that's next on my list after Victory Gundam (which I'm watching very slowly due to watching it with someone...) Randomer002 said: You peoples will probably hate me for this but... I still hold up Gundam SEED as my personal favorite outta the entire line. Just getting into Gundam 00 now and I've been told it is WAY better than SEED. As for one I liked the least... I think SD Gundam is at the bottom for me. If you like SEED, you like SEED, you obviously prefer more focus on character drama and stuff anyway. I also personally feel it wasn't too bad, but I strongly dislike SEED Destiny because of it's poor quality at moments and really stupid reasons for some things. I'm pretty picky with anime though. |
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| Gundam Wing had a really boring and easy predictable plot and the characters were unoriginal so I could say it's one of my least favorites :| |
| That's one impossible question to answer. There are way too many, and the time gap between them can be really long. First Gundam aired on 1985! (if Im not wrong) Hell that's 24 years ago. Not to mention that there are lot of subjective aspects that plays a factor on how you will appreciate a series at a certain time of your life. Actually, anyone here ever watched all of 'em? Not me, yet. xD As as "mecha" fan I dare to say, in overall, they all were OK, maybe even good, deserving a 7. But someone which is not a mecha fan will probably find most of them mediocre or even crappy. So I can't really answer that, at least not until I have watched all of 'em, and God knows when that will happen. |
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R-Zero said: First Gundam aired on 1985! (if Im not wrong) Hell that's 24 years ago. actually it's 1979, so that makes it even more! :p |
R-Zero said: Actually, anyone here ever watched all of 'em? Not me, yet. xD If we don't count compilation movies I'm about half way through Turn A and I'm waiting for someone to sub episode 3 of MS IGLOO 2 so I know whats going on. Then I will have seen them all :D And I'll be getting right on the UC compilation movies after my exams finish anyway. I'm still the only person to have mentioned G Savior live action Gundam movie...it was truly terrible. And although I know this is blasphemy at the highest order, I am really not enjoying Turn A so far... |
| I actually loved Destiny too. It may be pretty bad if you watch it with critical eye because it is almost direct copy from seed with some new (some even annoying) characters but still I just loved the atmosphere, music (even better than SEED), the original cast of seed characters and art style of CE. Gundams are also a lot more badass when compared to 00. To the question I must say second season of 00. I just didn't like it as much as first season. Some of the new main characters were dull like ribbons (which may be the worst villain that I have ever seen) and Marina got way too much airtime (Lousy copy of Lacus). I must also note that I have seen only SEED,Destiny, 00, 00 S2 so I have pretty few series which to choose from. =P |
KillerMan91May 26, 2009 3:20 PM
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| Gundam 00, Gundam SEED and Gundam Destiny are probably few of the worst anime series I ever had the opportunity to watch. I hate soap operas and over emotional garbage! |
arimakenshin said: 'hey i hate new stuff am i cool yet'Gundam 00, Gundam SEED and Gundam Destiny are probably few of the worst anime series I ever had the opportunity to watch. I hate soap operas and over emotional garbage! |
KillerMan91 said: I actually loved Destiny too. It may be pretty bad if you watch it with critical eye because it is almost direct copy from seed with some new (some even annoying) characters but still I just loved the atmosphere, music (even better than SEED), the original cast of seed characters and art style of CE. Gundams are also a lot more badass when compared to 00. To the question I must say second season of 00. I just didn't like it as much as first season. Some of the new main characters were dull like ribbons (which may be the worst villain that I have ever seen) and Marina got way too much airtime (Lousy copy of Lacus). I must also note that I have seen only SEED,Destiny, 00, 00 S2 so I have pretty few series which to choose from. =P Marina is actually more of a copy of Relena (New Mobile Project Gundam Wing) than Lacus. But yeah, I can understand your opinions, but mines are mostly opposites of yours haha. arimakenshin said: Gundam 00, Gundam SEED and Gundam Destiny are probably few of the worst anime series I ever had the opportunity to watch. I hate soap operas and over emotional garbage! I didn't mind SEED too much but the characters annoyed the hell outta me. Destiny was horrible but I quite enjoyed season 1 of 00. Season 2 started off fine but in my opinion it started to get worse pretty quickly and seemed more like Sunrise trolling us again. But if you hate over emotional garbage, why are you in the Gundam club? You realise every series has a high number of over emotional characters that just get upset over the least wee thing and whine? |
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| Right now it seems like ZZ might win the crappiest Gundam award in my book. |
| Zeta Gundam |
alex264 said: Zeta Gundam Oh man. I'm assuming obvious troll is obvious. |
| Gundam 00 season 2 and the ending of Destiny(even if I really love Stellar). I hate Gundam 00 S2 for butchering the beauty and radicalism of the first. there was almost nothing original and emotional to it, except disappointment. |
danceljoyJun 9, 2009 6:26 PM
"One way, Jesus, You're the only one that I could live for! You are the way, the truth and the life. We live by faith and not by sight... " |
BudokaZ said: alex264 said: Zeta Gundam Oh man. I'm assuming obvious troll is obvious. Not even trying to be like "that", just didn't see what the hype was about. |
| the best gondaum is lancelot of Code geass |
| Mobile Suit Victory Gundam. I normally don't like kids in the early teens piloting war machines. Uso was just too much of a pansy for me. Katejina pulls a 180 on League Militaire and joins the Zanscare empire. I couldnt find any conceivable reason for her doing that in the 41 episodes I watched of it. Chronicle, well, he had potential to be a pretty good adversary, but I could only see him as a quasi Char Aznable. Many of the significant supporting characters were killed left and right. Victory Gundam itself was pretty weak in defense; the original RX-78 seemed to outclass it. Zanscare's mech designs were very peculiar; I didn't care for 'em much. A guillotine for public executions...I found this kind of lame. Tomino factors nobility/monarchy into the formula again. I was basically forcing myself to watch it. I dropped it around episode 41. I couldn't force myself any longer. Despite people bashing SEED and SEED destinty, I liked these two series the best out of the whole franchise. I thought the whole underlying premise of naturals vs. genetically augmented humans, i.e., the coordinators was a pretty cool concept. Add in the SEED factor which is homologous to the Newtypes/ESPers of the U.C. gundam series, and you got yourself a pretty cool show. Yeah, Im not going to deny that Kira was a whiney bitch. I favored Athrun over him since he seemed to be the more rational and pragmatic--he seemed more realistic to me. I can probably thank SEED for bringing me into the Gundam world, as in it really pull me into it. Sure, Ive watched Wing and G before seeing SEED, but I didnt think too much of those series. |
In sterquiliniis invenitur. |
| probably gundam seed and gundam x... |
| Gundman X is underrated and unfinished =/ The only reason I liked SEED and Destiny were for the mechs, and that's it. The plot kept spinning around. It's like the bad guys and good guys switches sides every other day >_> |
In Oda we Trust   |
Sushikins said: SEED Destiny. I loved SEED, and loved the start of DESTINY, but the way it ended has probably been the biggest disappointment I've experienced in my years of watching anime. I feel the same here, really liked Seed and the beginning of Destiny. But I still can't point which series is the worse. |
R-ZeroJun 7, 2009 9:23 PM
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ravenshadow112 said: SEED Destiny. From the incredible number of recycled scenes to Kira stealing the spotlight to rehashed MS designs (I'll give them the Zaku since that was a nice homage, but it gets ridiculous when EVERY MS is pretty damn similar to old ones). Poor story. Contradicting technology details and crap. Etc. Dude, what the fuck did you copy and paste for? |
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| Lease favorite till now is ZZ Gundam, Most fav is Gundam seed/destiny. XD |
We are the United. Even in defeat we stand united. |
| Least favorite till now is ZZ Gundam, Most fav is Gundam seed/destiny. |
| We are the United. Even in defeat we stand united. |
| 00 just beats ZZ for me in the worst category. 00 was just such the messy hell hole |
| 0080!!!! the story sucked and there was barly any mecha action |
| PROUD TO BE A CANADIAN When the going get tough, the though get GIANT FIGHTING ROBOTS!!!  |
| It wasn't about the mecha action but about how one single death in war can wreck someone |
| Ive seen Wing, Seed/destiny and 00 both seasons. I would say wing was my least favorite (not that I didnt like it, I find it impossible to hate any gundam series no matter what). Wing was just probably too slow to develop, and the pilots sorta struggled to grow on me, whereas say Setsuna was an immediate fav for me. |
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| I don't get how people like Setsuna, he has no personality at all |
martin03345 said: Yeh, umm, well, thenI don't get how people like Setsuna, he has no personality at all Kira has too radical a personality, therefore people hate him, same with Shinn. Setsuna doesnt have enough of a personality so people shouldn't like him? Do you need someone to balance peoples personality to reach a perfect point, maybe some people like characters who dont whinge about every fukn thing, Setsuna pilots the gundam and kiks ass, what do ppl want, his life story and love relationships. There will always be people that like characters that not everyone will like, there arent set characters that people should like and other characters shouldn't be liked by anyone, there are many characters in each anime to suit people's different likes and dislikes, at least thats how I see it. |
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| I've never seen SEED so your example of Kira and Shinn are beyond me. His story is crap, his characterization is bad, he's from Blandastan. 00 is an overrated show and an overrated Gundam. Sorry, just how I feel. The fact that those who see it as the best are those who refuse to watch 0079 and Zeta because they're "too old" If a character has no personality, nothing that makes you connect to them, why the hell should one give a damn about how they progress as a character? |
| Gundam Seed are the worst gundam so far for me. Any good battle, bad animation, bad story and a overpowered/lucky/emo main. |
martin03345 said: It is overrated how? People rate shows on how much they liked it, so if a lot of people seem to like Gundam 00 more than the others, how is it overrated? He doesn't have a story yet I can connect with him despite you saying you cant without an ultra dense episode wasting story behind him. I plan to watch all the Gundam series anyway, I dont care about graphics and im not stating that 00 is the best of all the gundam series, I can only say its the best of the series I have seen so far xD.I've never seen SEED so your example of Kira and Shinn are beyond me. His story is crap, his characterization is bad, he's from Blandastan. 00 is an overrated show and an overrated Gundam. Sorry, just how I feel. The fact that those who see it as the best are those who refuse to watch 0079 and Zeta because they're "too old" If a character has no personality, nothing that makes you connect to them, why the hell should one give a damn about how they progress as a character? |
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| It's overrated because people give it praise for being a brilliant series when it just rehashes Wing. Hell, it hasn't even been 20 years and they tinkered with Wing. Also never said a episode is needed to flesh out the story of Setsuana because Amuro and Kamielle got no such episodes yet their characters progressed fluently and amazingly in their collective series. It's called pacing and proper development And not every one rates a show on the basis of how much they liked it. I don't. Story, characters, music, production, enjoyment, innovation, etc., all of these I take into consideration when I rate a series which for the most part turns out that shows with a more intriguing plot that has a ton of substance and matter to it make to me an enjoyable series which 00 lacked. Meaningless, over the top action is just that and is nothing phenomenal or anything that makes one have to use either their brain to enjoy or create it. But that's what today's like for most people I guess, remember what was made today and forget what was tomorrow which is something that will happen down the road to 00 and SEED more than likely. |
| Just because an anime is claimed to be a rehash of wing doesn't mean its any worse, I dont see what that has to do with ratings. Assume the person hadn't seen wing, would it affect the amount they enjoy the show if its a claimed rehash. Anyway Ive seen 00 and half of wing, and they seem wildly different to me, besides a few similar things here and there. How is someone like Amuro a good charatcer, he looks like he shud be working at hungry Jacks, have you seen how retarded he looks, yet Setsuna looks cool. Thats something I could argue against Amuro, you think undeveloped characters shouldn't be popular, well why should dodgy looking charatcers be popular? You're not biased at all towards any show you watch, intersting. So you could honestly give a 10 to a show you have hated but think it was excellently made? You say that the shows you like are usually those that are best made, perhaps thats your perception after having enjoyed it, others may not all feel the same. /rant |
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| Cause looks are what is important when it comes to a character. Setsuana is a malnourished, skinny, wanna-be pilot yet that's no reason for hating the character. My dislike of him is rooted in a better founded principle of development and personality. Your basis of saying a character who is good looking takes priority in how to judge someone over their character, personality, ability, is the foundation of issues in the world such as racism and sexism. So pat your back for looking like an intolerant bigot O and I thought you've never seen MSG or even Char's Counterattack but you call him a bad character? Just another example of someone who has no idea what they are talking about And by basis of 00 being a poor rehash of Wing is rooted in a. I have seen both b. I was able to compare and contrast and see what was in both to see how they were alike and dissimilar c. I could see how it compared to other Gundams I have seen, whether it was more super robot or more like traditional Gundam and being real robot. It was the former and not the latter Someone who has not seen Wing can't make such an observation but is also more likely to be someone who is younger, didn't grow up with Wing and also follows the modern mentality of if it's old, it's crap and therefore not even bother looking into it and bash it before even giving it a try (kind of like how you did with Amuro eh?) And 00 is a remake of Wing, that's just a fact. It doesn't have to be a episode for episode copy just like SEED isn't a episode by episode remake of 0079 but it is. And no, enjoyment is a factor, if I thought a show had great visuals, a decent story yet I didn't enjoy it at all, it wouldn't get a 10 because not everything was perfect. Unlike most people here, I don't hand out 8s, 9s, and 10s as if every anime under the sun as if they were all great and deserve a medal of honor. So before going on a rant, try reading what I wrote instead of just typing away because your arguments so far have been incoherent bumblings of what could be seen as a delusional fan |
| Ok, I've seen this debate, so I thought I could join in and share my thoughts. Ok, NightRaven, some of the statements that you said (and that's where I'll focus on) are pretty weak, incoherent, and they contradict each other. I'm not really going to cover everything, just the statements that really caught my eye: "I plan to watch all the Gundam series anyway, I dont care about graphics and im not stating that 00 is the best of all the gundam series, I can only say its the best of the series I have seen so far" -Ok, you plan to watch all the gundam shows, that's fine I guess. But then you said this: "How is someone like Amuro a good charatcer, he looks like he shud be working at hungry Jacks, have you seen how retarded he looks, yet Setsuna looks cool." -W-what?! What was that? You plan to watch all the gundam shows, yet you've already labeled Amuro a retarded character. Have you even seen the original gundam? Looks to me you've only seen 00 and thats it. Sure you've probably seen others, but whatever. It seems that you probably only seen 5 minutes of episode 1, then saw Amuro and just described him as such. Why? Because he doesnt look HD? Doesn't look as 'cool' as Setsuna? What a load of crap. Just because a show is 30 years old and you didn't see it in your childhood doesn't mean you can just say "everyone looks old and retarded and therefore, its a joke and not worthy of living up to the Gundam series' name." And just to clarify, this quote is just an example. To continue on, it doesn't justify your half-baked argument, believe me. Let's go back to the "yet Setsuna looks cool" part. Are looks really the most important thing in a character? Talk about immature. I've already repeated this, but I'll say it again. You say Setsuna looks cool, and Amuro looks retarded, period. Yeah...you haven't seen MSG at all have you? Ok, let's say I do agree that Amuro looks retarded. I'll give you that for now. But with the 20-something eps I've seen he's not such a bad character at all. His personality and development plays a big part in the series. Sure, he may not look or sound like that "typical, badass character (like Setsuna?)," but how he grows as a person balances his shortcomings. Are appearances the only thing that matters in the world? Really? Try applying that in real life and see how far you get. Oh yeah, sure my favorite characters (yeah go ahead look at my profile) are good-looking, and I guess you could say badass, but personality and development are more important to me. And you know what? They all have that. And before you come back at me that I'm degrading 00, I'm not. Not at all. My statments do not say 'Setsuna sucks,' because that's definitely not what I think. But I do plan on watching 00 sometime in the future, and when I'm finished with the show, then I'll come out with statements that either label Setsuna and the rest of the crew 'sucks' or is 'awesome.' "You're not biased at all towards any show you watch, intersting. So you could honestly give a 10 to a show you have hated but think it was excellently made?" - Ok, it's a little bit hard to understand, maybe the wording's a little off, but whatever. The answer is, yes you can. I don't rate shows because of just pure enjoyment. I don't rate a show a 10 just because of the fact that I laughed or cried my butt off every single episode. That's just one piece of the puzzle. Story, visuals, etc. come into play. I don't really give shows a 10, but its possible I might time and again. But just because I scored a show a 7 doesn't mean it can't show up in my favorites list now and again. Oh and a final word; people are generally biased. That's just the way people are. Is it bad? No not really. It depends actually. So (to conclude this long rant), it's kind of like saying Neon Genesis Evangelion sucks because all the characters aren't badass because they all become crazy towards the end, and it's not a happy ending. But hey, that's not what all I think of the show. So there. Rant over. Done. Finito. Live your lives in ignorant bliss for all I care. Heh, just kidding. Dont mind that last part =P |
dietmangoOct 13, 2009 1:11 AM
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| I said that I plan to watch MSG yet I said Amuro looks retarded. This is something you cant fathom? ok.... I also thought the same for all the 00 characters before I first watched it (except Setsuna, the rest of the meisters looked like girls), but I still watched it and ended up liking them, so I dont see what ur point is, I am able to give my current opinjion as it is and can change it after having seen MSG, however I was just stating that I could say Amuro looks quit dodgy when compared to Setsuna (im not saying its sumthing I really loathe), I was just making the point out that martin seems to think no charatcer shud be well liked unless they have a deep personality? So I questioned whteher unattractive looking characters shud also be unliked. I never sed MGS was a joke, im actually quite excited to watch it, where did u get that I think its a joke, by one line?, dont jump to quick conclusions. How am I immature, I never once stated Setsuna was better than Amuro 'coz hes cooool', I was making a point as I stated before, I have nothing agaisnt Amuro, it was just an example. "Oh and a final word; people are generally biased. That's just the way people are. Is it bad? No not really. It depends actually." Umm, thx for proving my point, that was my point exactly, trying to explain that people are in general , biased, I said that I am usually biased into rating a series higher if I enjoyed it because I will have a perception of the anime which may only look at its positives and not negatives, I admit it. But Martin seems to look down upon those who are biased by their enjoyment factor if you read above. So anyway, to sum up, I just think that there is no reason why people like Setsuna shouldn't be liked by anyone just coz he lacks sufficient character development, he has other positive aspects to him. He looks cool (im sorry I have eyes and they tend to favour different charatcers judged by looks a bit), he will fight when needed and he isnt ur good ol Kira sook type or shinn emo gundam pilot. He doesn't complain about anything, and his history also brings some sympathy fro me towards him. /rant |
NightRavenOct 13, 2009 1:21 AM
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| Again you misread what I wrote and it's getting quite irritating. You expressed your opinion, and I expressed mine. That's the whole point of a forum. You just seemed to get this great misconception about what my posts mean and come back with incoherent statements I stated that enjoyment is not the sole basis to judge how good a show is. Asian_Pride also backs up that sentiment. My whole point of liking a character on the sole basis of looks is that it's a shallow view. If you were to view a woman and like her simply for her bust line, then that's a shallow view that goes with how you view someone. The same goes for Setsuna and how you view Amuro because you put preconceived notions on him before you even watched an episode of the show. That is what makes you immature, that is what makes you shallow. My point was not that they have to be the deepest in personality, but they sure need development, especially if they are the main character of the series. But I guess you don't know the concept of character development. If you can't get by now how judging a character by looks as your primary source and how it relates to alot of the bull crap in today's world, then you are one naive child And I apologize if I come off as prickly, I just really get irked when people misread what I wrote to try and spin it in a way it shouldn't be |
martin03345Oct 13, 2009 12:06 PM
martin03345 said: I was replying to asian_pride, I thought you wudda noticed? It's getting irritating how u jump to conclusions like a fool. I never stated enjoyment was what I base a review entirely on, can u f*** read, quote me where I ever said that. Also quote some incoherent sentences of mine, and explain how they are coz its not very effective just saying they are with no proof??? I dont base a character all on looks, do u even read what I type, I didnt say Amuro was a shit character, once again quote where I ever sed this, lol? I used Amuro as an example, did I ever say I hated him, you manipulate everything I say, I just explained how similarly to what you do to Setsuna saying wow coz he has no personality no one shud like him, I posed a similar question, Amuro looks rather dodgy so shud he also not have anyone like him. This is not to be confused with me saying I hate the guy (I wudda clearly stated, well I hate Amuro or sumthing but I didnt?)Again you misread what I wrote and it's getting quite irritating. You expressed your opinion, and I expressed mine. That's the whole point of a forum. You just seemed to get this great misconception about what my posts mean and come back with incoherent statements I stated that enjoyment is not the sole basis to judge how good a show is. Asian_Pride also backs up that sentiment. My whole point of liking a character on the sole basis of looks is that it's a shallow view. If you were to view a woman and like her simply for her bust line, then that's a shallow view that goes with how you view someone. The same goes for Setsuna and how you view Amuro because you put preconceived notions on him before you even watched an episode of the show. That is what makes you immature, that is what makes you shallow. My point was not that they have to be the deepest in personality, but they sure need development, especially if they are the main character of the series. But I guess you don't know the concept of character development. If you can't get by now how judging a character by looks as your primary source and how it relates to alot of the bull crap in today's world, then you are one naive child And I apologize if I come off as prickly, I just really get irked when people misread what I wrote to try and spin it in a way it shouldn't be Btw, since you have no idea whatsoever of the basis of liking characters or people, ill explain for you. There is no set way to judge a character, you think that judging them based on their personality is the only basis for this, I explained that other factors shud be considered, you asked why Setsuna is liked even though he has no personality (this statement implies that besides personality, there is no other way to judge a character since I replied with other reasons you seem to ignore, and note I never sed looks was the primary reason, it is ONE of them). For some people, it is how bad ass or cute a character is, for others its their personality, for some its just their abilities. There are many different reasons to like characters, not just personality alone. Sorry if thats how you see it and are so narrow minded as to accept any other grounds for liking a character but if thats how you see it, then I couldnt give a shit, ill continue liking characters that I like based on the reasons that I think are most important. It also depends on the series, a badass charatcer wudnt feel right in a light comedy. On a lighter note, I generally dont care so much about character development in a gundam series, if I want character development, there are other series more prominent for that. I prefer more serious and more stable personalities in Gundam series, characters who are skilled pilots and dont have emo problems for half the series. Setsuna satisfies what I look for in a Gundam pilot lead, so is there a problem with me or anyone else liking him. I dont question why people like Char or Amuro or Kira. I understand there are qualities they have that people like and others wouldn't, its an inevitability. I may appear that im slightly biased towards Setsuna and seem fanboyish, but it probably is me being a bit fanboyish, but the fact that there are people that like him does prove he has qualities that can be liked, right? |
NightRavenOct 13, 2009 8:31 PM
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| Gundam is a show based on character development, Gundam is driven by characters and the effects that war has on them. That's it's premise. The action is almost window dressing for Gundam. There is nothing wrong with someone voicing their own opinion on a character and why inquiring why someone likes them or not, and give reasons for their thoughts and make a debate out of it. You coming off extremely defensive and prickly shows that there are flaws in your thinking otherwise, you wouldn't be as offended. That was the whole point of this discussion wasn't? You say you like Setsuna, I say I don't You say why, I say why. Examples, reasons, etc and that's how it goes. Gundam is not a show where such decisions on how much you like a character should be based primarily (not soley but primarily meaning the majority of your view) based on looks. This isn't some comedy where you can have that kind of luxury. You base your views on certain characters within such a drama, then you lose focus of who they are, what they stand for, how they have either grown or detracted and how it all effects you as the viewer. Again, I never said personality is the soul basis of judging a character but when you state that you think those who look cool are better characters than those who like like average joes (which there is a reason why Amuro does look like your average person then you bishonen character), you are backing up notions that you would make you ostracized in real life when meeting people if you did the same exact thing. This is the point I brought up and said which you conveniently ignored, something you claim to accuse me of picking and choosing statements you posted. You may sit and think that looks should be the best decision or the right one for someone to choose to like a character. Fine, it makes you shallow though because you don't know anything about them except maybe they're bone structure and facial features. This is especially true if you use that for your criteria of basing how much you like a character in a anime series where character development, personality and acting is crucial to the series feel, style and emotional connection with others You may have been directly replying to someone else, but I can debate the points you brought up, it isn't limited to one on one you fucking moron. And by the way, your statements are confusing when you use such bullshit grammar as sed, shud or coz. Makes you look like an ignorant prick when debating someone and not giving the common courtesy to use proper English (and if it's not your first language then I apologize but if you're willing to engage in such an activity, then it should be as flawless as possible). And by saying Setsuna has no personality, that means I believe he's a dull, uninteresting, character that is very limited in portraying an important role in the series which surprise, he was to me. Personality is many factors and can be applied in a broad term which is what I did for this given situation. By saying Amuro looks like he belongs working at a Burger Shack and how you think he looks retarded is a preconceived notion that limits your view on the character. The quote was: "How is someone like Amuro a good charatcer, he looks like he shud be working at hungry Jacks, have you seen how retarded he looks, yet Setsuna looks cool." How is that not saying he's a bad character when you are saying in effect that he is a ugly character and therefore retarded. That's what you said, implied and therefore interpreted by not just one but two people within this discussion as a limited view on the character. I said that as nicely as I possibly could. But keep cursing and acting like a fool by not getting that this is a debate of opinion where both may be right or wrong but express what they feel in a coherent manner |
| Because I feel editing will be too big of a pain, I do want to apologize if I do come off as harsh. If this is debate is to continue I hope and want it to go in kinder manner on both our sides so we can understand each other viewpoints better. |
| "Gundam is a show based on character development, Gundam is driven by characters and the effects that war has on them. That's it's premise. The action is almost window dressing for Gundam." No, thats ur take on it u fukn retard. Gundam is a series prominently used to show off latest mechas which can be sold as scale sized models, for this purpose, the action and the performance of the mobile suits along with the skill level of the pilot in order to make the gundam seem as strong as possible is the real core of the series. Saying action is window dressing, wtf, u must be on drugs. Most Gundam series have action almost every episode, well nice dressing? I might seem as tho im coming off as defensive because, umm, thats what im doing?? Im defending Setsuna, that was my intention from the start, it doesnt prove I have flaws in my argument, if I do, ur more than welcome to quote and show me. "Gundam is not a show where such decisions on how much you like a character should be based primarily (not soley but primarily meaning the majority of your view) based on looks." I never said looks were the most important feature for me, in gundam series its piloting skill followed by attitude, then looks, and lastly the personality. "Again, I never said personality is the soul basis of judging a character but when you state that you think those who look cool are better characters than those who like like average joes (which there is a reason why Amuro does look like your average person then you bishonen character)" Okay, where did I ever say setsuna was a better character than Amuro coz of looks, in fact where did I even state Setsuna was better? "You may sit and think that looks should be the best decision or the right one for someone to choose to like a character. Fine, it makes you shallow though because you don't know anything about them except maybe they're bone structure and facial features." Again focusing on looks, which seems to be ur only argument funnily. I never said looks were only thing that was important, I used it as an example. You were asking why a character with no personality shud be liked, I then asked of u, shud a character with bad animation not be liked then? This ISNT saying that Amuro sux, or Setsuna is better coz of his looks, ehh learn to read. "You may have been directly replying to someone else, but I can debate the points you brought up, it isn't limited to one on one you fucking moron." Wtf, did I ever say you couldnt debate stuff, I said I was replying to asian_pride because of this quotation from you "Again you misread what I wrote and it's getting quite irritating." I was just explaining that I hadnt been arguing what you sed previously so ur comment was stupid and uncalled for. It seems ur the moron funnily enuff. "By saying Amuro looks like he belongs working at a Burger Shack and how you think he looks retarded is a preconceived notion that limits your view on the character. The quote was: "How is someone like Amuro a good character, he looks like he shud be working at hungry Jacks, have you seen how retarded he looks, yet Setsuna looks cool." How is that not saying he's a bad character when you are saying in effect that he is a ugly character and therefore retarded." So ur a believer that ugly people are retarded people, that thought never crossed my mind, as I sed,when I first saw 00 I thought the 3 main characters besides setsuna were awkward looking, but I didnt hate them or think they were shit, I even grew to like them alot. Saying Amuro is not a good looking character in no way implies I think of him as a shit character. It seems ur the shallow one, assuming ugly means shit. These shitty assumptions do little for ur already weak ass argument. Ugly =/ Retarded. "And by the way, your statements are confusing when you use such bullshit grammar as sed, shud or coz. Makes you look like an ignorant prick when debating someone and not giving the common courtesy to use proper English (and if it's not your first language then I apologize but if you're willing to engage in such an activity, then it should be as flawless as possible)." If that kind of stuff confuses you I worry for ur intelligence and ability to read and understand anything beyond perfect english (good luk with shakespeare since u cant adapt to understand), thats internet 'msn' style writing. Since this is an internet argument, well what the fuk do u expect. You claim I should show u courtesy, what have u done to deserve it? How I write has nothing to do with the debate anyway,unless its unreadable (if it is, learn to read internet chats, its not too hard) then I just feel ur deviating from the real argument at hand. I am sorry if I have also come off harsh, its just a response to mirror exactly how you have come off. Dont expect the argument to be all cherry blossoms from me if ur not willing to follow |
NightRavenOct 14, 2009 1:41 AM
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"Gundam is a show based on character development, Gundam is driven by characters and the effects that war has on them. That's it's premise. The action is almost window dressing for Gundam." No, thats ur take on it u fukn retard. Gundam is a series prominently used to show off latest mechas which can be sold as scale sized models, for this purpose, the action and the performance of the mobile suits along with the skill level of the pilot in order to make the gundam seem as strong as possible is the real core of the series. Saying action is window dressing, wtf, u must be on drugs. Most Gundam series have action almost every episode, well nice dressing? Wow...that's pretty impressive. Now as you've admitted to only seing SEED and 00 and part of Wing, I'll let you off for thinking it's all action and lasers and explosions. However, this is why a lot of Gundam fans dislike SEED and 00, because they are like that. All of the UC series and Turn A at their core are character driven affairs. However, for some of the UC series it is well documented that parts were done to sold toys, and by done, I mean ordered by the sponsors. Such as Original Gundam splitting into parts, and significant portions of Victory Gundam anime. For the 'true' spirit of Gundam, a lot of the OVAs have this character development focus down. War in the Pocket and 08th MS are popular examples, even look at SEED Stargazer for similar experience. I also think there has been some counter-arguement confusion over your Amuro statement, I believe that you were trying to say 'you think Setsuna is bad because he has no personality, well what if I said Amuro was ugly so he couldn't be good?'. You were picking a random point to try and illustrate that you believed to not like Setsuna because of his characterisation flaws was as silly as saying you don't like a character because he looks dumb. A fair thing to say, however in modern literature/arts review, personality is considered one of the main traits to judge a character by. Do they act believably human? Are they flawed? Do they learn lessons and grow from them? Character design and aesthetic appeal is usually ancillary, and the judgement of such a character because of their looks is usually frowned upon by people who consider themselves mature. Hence you have the phrase 'don't judge a book by it's cover'. However one could also argue that you're not some elitist snooty critic, and as it's your opinion you can take such a thing into account. Which is totally fair enough. Setsuna is a little bit of a bland character, even when compared to some of the others in 00. Even characters like Setsuna in other shows have had development, take Sagara Sosuke from Full Metal Panic. Even Hiiro from Wing to a degree. Which brings us to the 'Wing vs 00' point. Basically, in the grand scheme of Gundams, Wing and 00 are very very similar, or at least the first season of 00. Second season has more in common with Zeta and ZZ to a degree. Also, you're comparing understanding of txt spk to Shakespearian English? I know you were probably angry...but come on...that's just grounds for invalidating any arguement... |
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