MellowJello said: Saying "porn" was a generalization. You have to realize how sudden this suggestion looks to users that have been here since (or nearly since) MAL was created.Hidden_Joker said: Knee-jerk reaction I suppose. Deserada said: Go to hongfire if you're that excited about porn. Why do everyone think this is for porn? I told you it'd turn into a shitstorm :P I'm personally not ready to see a further dip in the average IQ of our userbase as people flock to 18+ threads and the recent posts page shows even less of value. In order of popularity, those threads will likely wipe out all of the other debates and such that the 2012'ers kind of helped to revive. Don't take this as an attack, but instead look to other communities that have incorporated such rules and see if you would like to even post there. |
 Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. |
Deserada said: Fair enough, knee-jerk reactions exist for a reason. But this suggestion is for mods to take into consideration, not veterans who instantly assume 18+ = porn (no offense to those users, including you ).Saying "porn" was a generalization. You have to realize how sudden this suggestion looks to users that have been here since (or nearly since) MAL was created. I'm personally not ready to see a further dip in the average IQ of our userbase as people flock to 18+ threads and the recent posts page shows even less of value. In order of popularity, those threads will likely wipe out all of the other debates and such that the 2012'ers kind of helped to revive. Don't take this as an attack, but instead look to other communities that have incorporated such rules and see if you would like to even post there. Well, (I feel like I'm gonna be using this example a lot) we saw JennyEsquire's thread on losing one's virginity being taken semi-seriously, so the maturity of a discussion rests on the user's shoulders, not the limitations of a forum (don't quote me out of context oh geez that sounded bad). And on your final point: that's why I took in other's suggestions on what to do with 18+ content. If communities (I haven't literally seen every forum, but it's easy to just say there are exceptions to every trollfest 18+ forum out there) really did degrade that fast, then either fix what's going on with mods (as Katsucats observes), or take one of the alternative suggestions and hide the board to <18 and guests. tomber said: You're right; this idea has a really good chance of getting shot down. But we can hope, right? Honestly other problems take priority over this, but hey, at least I stirred up some traffic into this thread and promoted some serious discussion.But in my experience admins don't usually love "dangerous" idea like this; ideas that include more effort and some hazy perception of risk. Hopefully though, you guys here at MAL have it good with decent mods/admins & get to make this happen. Easiest, I think, would simply be a subforum, maybe off the casual discussions or something. Mind if I take that suggestion and post it? |
MellowJelloJan 21, 2013 5:46 AM
| 2013-01-21T21:32:42+08:00 Deserada, I doubt there's a direct correlation between intelligence level and an affinity for the obscene. ~,~' MellowJello, I'm not particularly against your suggestion, but I think that whatever motivation the admin/staff have for doing stuff can be much better chanelled into fixing broken features. >,< Hidden_Joker, It might not necessarily be for porn, but it's certainly for something gratuitous. ^,^' 2013-01-21T21:46:04+08:00 |
| Naysayers almost effortlessly make the possible seem impossible since they usually just parrot generalized, oversimplified, or uninspired arguments. However, the proper, but significantly more difficult way to refute an idea is to discredit all major and most minor cases. In contrast, a single convincing solution can prove feasibility though it isn't a trivial pursuit either. |
weakwithwords said: Very true. But the suggestion still stands. Whether they do it today or next year (assuming they fix broken features [*cough* find all posts by user *cough*] in that time frame) doesn't matter. It should still be considered.MellowJello, I'm not particularly against your suggestion, but I think that whatever motivation the admin/staff have for doing stuff can be much better chanelled into fixing broken features. >,< 2013-01-21T21:46:04+08:00 We'll find out when a mod comments. |
MellowJello said: [*cough* find all posts by user *cough*] That should definitely be fixed. Would make stalking way easier. |
 |
weakwithwords said: I have to agree, I didn't word that very well. At the very least the ratio of non-obscene debate and discussion posts to posts of other users looking for 18+ content would significantly sway towards the latter.Deserada, I doubt there's a direct correlation between intelligence level and an affinity for the obscene. ~,~' MellowJello said: I completely overlooked valid discussions like those started by JennyEsquire (and one of which I even started myself!). This is not something I would be opposed to, though I do think asking people to explain how they lost their virginity is a bit over the top. What I am worried about are things like the GIF and pic dump threads that will inevitably get abused (more than they are now). I particularly do not want to see a mix of the above two types of threads (imagine people explaining their sexual adventures with pictures.. just no), and that isn't really possible to moderate if you instate any of these rules.Deserada said: Fair enough, knee-jerk reactions exist for a reason. But this suggestion is for mods to take into consideration, not veterans who instantly assume 18+ = porn (no offense to those users, including you ).Saying "porn" was a generalization. You have to realize how sudden this suggestion looks to users that have been here since (or nearly since) MAL was created. I'm personally not ready to see a further dip in the average IQ of our userbase as people flock to 18+ threads and the recent posts page shows even less of value. In order of popularity, those threads will likely wipe out all of the other debates and such that the 2012'ers kind of helped to revive. Don't take this as an attack, but instead look to other communities that have incorporated such rules and see if you would like to even post there. Well, (I feel like I'm gonna be using this example a lot) we saw JennyEsquire's thread on losing one's virginity being taken semi-seriously, so the maturity of a discussion rests on the user's shoulders, not the limitations of a forum (don't quote me out of context oh geez that sounded bad). |
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. |
Deserada said: Since you're not opposed to it, I'll just address the gif/pic dump threads.Well, we've seen that the screenshot war hasn't been abused (yet), despite seeming lack of moderation there (and it always gets into innuendo in there), so we won't know for sure whether users will abuse 18+ threads or not. As for 18+ dump threads/double disgusting discussions, I'll quote Raikozen on this one: Raikozen said: Anyone who goes into an 18+ thread can't complain about what's in there. |
MellowJello said: Mind if I take that suggestion and post it? Go ahead & best of luck! |
| "Expect nothing, or you will get caught up in the future and not pay attention to the present. Just do the practice diligently, do it because you enjoy it, do it because you believe in it. Don't wait for results, don't wait for it to happen." -VD |
| 2013-01-21T22:14:41+08:00 Has any of you ever encountered an efficient or foolproof way of verifying a person's age over the internet? Often enough, the system simply relies on the user's honesty. At worst, the processing is so taxing that people just won't bother. The main forums (and subforums) are inherently representative of MAL itself so this might be a bad idea in the long run. Also, won't an 18+ board likely conflict with the fundamentals of the Site & Forum Guidelines? I'm still not convinced that this has to be situated in the main forums (or subforums). Ah, I forgot to check. Does a secret club appear on a user profile's list of clubs? ( I've been participating in this discussion because it's interesting. However, I've never liked the structure of forums even during my BBSing days. I'm still thinking of alternatives, but I'm a slow learner so it's a race between my "far future implementations" and "improvements to this site". Hohohoho! ^o^ ) 2013-01-21T22:55:27+08:00 |
| Naysayers almost effortlessly make the possible seem impossible since they usually just parrot generalized, oversimplified, or uninspired arguments. However, the proper, but significantly more difficult way to refute an idea is to discredit all major and most minor cases. In contrast, a single convincing solution can prove feasibility though it isn't a trivial pursuit either. |
| First off, what's with the timestamps? Anyways: weakwithwords said: Has any of you ever encountered an efficient or foolproof way of verifying a person's age over the internet? Often enough, the system simply relies on the user's honesty. At worst, the processing is so taxing that people just won't bother. The main forums (and subforums) are inherently representative of MAL itself so this might be a bad idea in the long run. Also, won't an 18+ board likely conflict with the fundamentals of the Site & Forum Guidelines? I'm still not convinced that this has to be situated in the main forums (or subforums). Ah, I forgot to check. Does a secret club appear on a user profile's list of clubs? First point is already addressed I'll leave the 2nd point to the mods, since, while it's true, the nature of forums means communities are constantly evolving (as observed by old-time users). They'll be the ones to decide if it conflicts or not. Third point, no, they don't appear anywhere at all. Try to find out where the phrase "I am a member of The Invisibles" comes from. |
Deserada said: Go to hongfire if you're that excited about porn. Because talking about sex/rape/incest/pedophilia etc is all porn? You have nice tastes, me too actually... |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| 2013-01-21T23:38:09+08:00 MellowJello,
2013-01-21T23:50:28+08:00 |
| Naysayers almost effortlessly make the possible seem impossible since they usually just parrot generalized, oversimplified, or uninspired arguments. However, the proper, but significantly more difficult way to refute an idea is to discredit all major and most minor cases. In contrast, a single convincing solution can prove feasibility though it isn't a trivial pursuit either. |
Immahnoob said: See my response to MellowJello in post 105:Deserada said: Go to hongfire if you're that excited about porn. Because talking about sex/rape/incest/pedophilia etc is all porn? You have nice tastes, me too actually... Deserada said: Saying "porn" was a generalization. |
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. |
| And a really bad one, not only that, your motivation sucks... I don't remember anything like "There will be no more rules" on the OP, posting nudity in a thread of nudity wouldn't be against the rules if they implement this. If they accepted by their own will to view the thread, that's their problem, as I stated before. The rules will still be the same, spoilering the pictures. |
Play League of Legends here! Autocrat said: Hitler was good, objectively. |
| *ignores flamefest above* weakwithwords said: *ignores flamefest above* Not sure; but I doubt MAL would get sued for something a child were to see, especially since we warned them.2013-01-21T23:38:09+08:00 MellowJello,
2013-01-21T23:50:28+08:00 Well they modified the rules already (see the archived ones), so if they have the will for it, they can do it again. Not a problem. In the end, we made the secret club. So there's nothing much to do anymore. Having this approved would be excellent still. |
Deserada said: Saying "porn" was a generalization. Immahnoob said: It's not a generalization to me. Name topics that would be considered 18+ that we haven't been able to discuss (that's also not a pic dumping thread, so Count to 9000 doesn't count).And a really bad one As for how you could go about doing this, I suggest that you just make a Public Club, and in the Information section, write something like "The contents within this club may not be safe for work and are for adults only. MAL or its affiliates cannot be held responsible for the contents therein. If you are under 18 or are easily impressionable, please exit immediately. By joining, you agree that you are over 18" in big bold red letters. And then just get regulars to put a link in their signatures, like RandomPerson3 when he's spamming the same welcome message in the Introduction section of the forums. If enough regular posters care about this, people will see it. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: For that club, then will you be making it private as soon as you get enought members? Because the site saysDeserada said: Saying "porn" was a generalization. Immahnoob said: It's not a generalization to me. Name topics that would be considered 18+ that we haven't been able to discuss (that's also not a pic dumping thread, so Count to 9000 doesn't count).And a really bad one As for how you could go about doing this, I suggest that you just make a Public Club, and in the Information section, write something like "The contents within this club may not be safe for work and are for adults only. MAL or its affiliates cannot be held responsible for the contents therein. If you are under 18 or are easily impressionable, please exit immediately. By joining, you agree that you are over 18" in big bold red letters. And then just get regulars to put a link in their signatures, like RandomPerson3 when he's spamming the same welcome message in the Introduction section of the forums. If enough regular posters care about this, people will see it. Clubs with 18+ themes must be set to Secret and the club admins must ensure all members are not underage. Failure to do so may result in the removal of the club and/or temporary bans. Just putting up bold letters won't protect you from that rule. I know this user had some good ideas on how to make the club get members easier. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
katsucats said: As for how you could go about doing this, I suggest that you just make a Public Club, and in the Information section, write something like "The contents within this club may not be safe for work and are for adults only. MAL or its affiliates cannot be held responsible for the contents therein. If you are under 18 or are easily impressionable, please exit immediately. By joining, you agree that you are over 18" in big bold red letters. And then just get regulars to put a link in their signatures, like RandomPerson3 when he's spamming the same welcome message in the Introduction section of the forums. If enough regular posters care about this, people will see it. We already talked to a mod about the public club thing. We got a no. Can't really say more about that since I wasn't there to witness it. As for the signatures, well that might be a good idea if the club was public... And lol@RandomPerson. I love his introdcuctions. ....and whoop IntroverTurtle beat me to it. Let's go with his explanation. |
IntroverTurtle said: I don't know what the restrictions are to secret clubs are, if any, but the workaround against this rule would be to create 2 clubs:Clubs with 18+ themes must be set to Secret and the club admins must ensure all members are not underage. Failure to do so may result in the removal of the club and/or temporary bans. 1. 18+ Portal Public Club: Information, rules, limitations on the 18+ club. Members post to petition access. Officers "invite" them to... 2. 18+ Secret Club: Self explanatory I don't know what the rule means when it says "club admins must ensure all members are not underage". To what extent? I bet none of the MAL mods or even the webmaster himself knows a foolproof way of doing this. If there were, he'd be making millions advising Craigslist or something. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Did you know that no one gives a shit anymore? Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore. We found an alternate solution. So therefore, this thread can blow up and burn and then we can all shit all over it. Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore. |
katsucats said: Yeah that way was already in that spoiler that I posted. IntroverTurtle said: I don't know what the restrictions are to secret clubs are, if any, but the workaround against this rule would be to create 2 clubs:Clubs with 18+ themes must be set to Secret and the club admins must ensure all members are not underage. Failure to do so may result in the removal of the club and/or temporary bans. 1. 18+ Portal Public Club: Information, rules, limitations on the 18+ club. Members post to petition access. Officers "invite" them to... 2. 18+ Secret Club: Self explanatory I don't know what the rule means when it says "club admins must ensure all members are not underage". To what extent? I bet none of the MAL mods or even the webmaster himself knows a foolproof way of doing this. If there were, he'd be making millions advising Craigslist or something. If you make the club so they have to request entry, then you check the date on their profile. The 18+ club already does that, they have multiple mods, if someone wants to join they request, mod checks their profile or has the person post their age on the mods profile, then they are accepted. I believe that's all that is needed. PricklySmickey said: What's the alternate? And MellowJellow still cares since it's in his signature.Did you know that no one gives a shit anymore? Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore. We found an alternate solution. So therefore, this thread can blow up and burn and then we can all shit all over it. Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore. |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| The alternate is, FUCK IT YOLO LIFTESTYLE NOT GONNA TELL YOU. < smartest guy in the thread right here |
PricklySmickey said: Did you know that no one gives a shit anymore? Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore. We found an alternate solution. So therefore, this thread can blow up and burn and then we can all shit all over it. Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore.  |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
| Sorry, Mello. But I think your thread has been officially derailed. |
| Fine, I'll stop by and say, "I approve" There. |
 Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
| *sigh* Figured something like this would happen. Thanks Smickey (not really). First off, IntroverTurtle said: Thanks a bunch. Yes I still care. Whether we've found a "solution" or not doesn't matter, because this suggestion still holds weight.MellowJello still cares since it's in his signature. IntroverTurtle said: I.. sort of like this idea. No, there isn't a fool proof way to verify ages. Yes, this is an easier way to get publicity for any given "secret" club. However, it's still failing to fix the problem of "open discussion". Users are still stuck going through a multi-step process just to talk about things that may/may not interest them.If you make the club so they have to request entry, then you check the date on their profile. The 18+ club already does that, they have multiple mods, if someone wants to join they request, mod checks their profile or has the person post their age on the mods profile, then they are accepted. I believe that's all that is needed. katsucats said: Not helping Katsu. Funny, but not helping.PricklySmickey said: Probably. We'll see about that.Sorry, Mello. But I think your thread has been officially derailed. Tavor said: Many thanks Tavvie!Fine, I'll stop by and say, "I approve" There. Still waiting for a mod response. Due to a lack of poll, it would be great if you could express your position on the matter (could be a simple statement). Arguments for/against are still welcome. |
MellowJelloJan 21, 2013 8:26 PM
| I'll reapprove this. |
Z-flame said: We won't know until a mod says so. And it's not, I'll agree with that. Doesn't mean we have no speaking power at all though. We'll find out if/when a mod makes a comment on this.It won't happen no matter how many people support it. This place isn't a democracy And Z-Flame, would you mind stating your position on this suggestion? |
PricklySmickey said: Did you know that no one gives a shit anymore? Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore. We found an alternate solution. So therefore, this thread can blow up and burn and then we can all shit all over it. Just stop. No one gives a shit anymore. If you tired of this topic, why are you here making replies? Best option would be to not reply and let the topic die out. |
| Schools out, No job at moment, STILL hello MAL Eh..I will try to be online |
SOExclusive said: *ahem*If you tired of this topic, why are you here making replies? Best option would be to not reply and let the topic die out. PricklySmickey said: Don't start another one SOExclusive.I'll reapprove this. |
| That would be horrible if forums were democracies. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
| 2013-01-22T14:21:31+08:00 IntroverTurtle, I'd like to emphasize something about the second idea in #98 that I addressed to Hidden_Joker. That was specifically public so people can easily join (without waiting for an officer's approval). Note that people can join even if they're not qualified to the secret one. (This streamlines the process.) That's why there should be no discussions (or even topic lists) in the public club. People can only ask for an invitation to the secret one. Making the "portal/interface club" private will involve private messaging, but the inbox has a 75-message limit and that's a possible bottleneck. The officers get automatic notifications, but it's actually more work--erasing notifications and approving requests. 2013-01-22T14:43:39+08:00 |
| Naysayers almost effortlessly make the possible seem impossible since they usually just parrot generalized, oversimplified, or uninspired arguments. However, the proper, but significantly more difficult way to refute an idea is to discredit all major and most minor cases. In contrast, a single convincing solution can prove feasibility though it isn't a trivial pursuit either. |
| I support only because I feel like there's no reason to not allow these threads. Personally, I wouldn't really post or read anything in this, but there should be a sub-forum for 18+. My motto is do whatever you want in your life, as long as you don't harm anyone else. I guess hiding these threads from the Recent Posts and any other functions that don't require intentional searching would be the way to go. So, let some people do what they want, and hiding these threads the way I suggested wouldn't harm anyone. |
weakwithwords said: Oh I know that, I was just replying to the second part of his post where he was just asking about how do secret clubs work when they have to make sure everyone is over 18. I understood your explanation.2013-01-22T14:21:31+08:00 IntroverTurtle, I'd like to emphasize something about the second idea in #98 that I addressed to Hidden_Joker. That was specifically public so people can easily join (without waiting for an officer's approval). Note that people can join even if they're not qualified to the secret one. (This streamlines the process.) That's why there should be no discussions (or even topic lists) in the public club. People can only ask for an invitation to the secret one. Making the "portal/interface club" private will involve private messaging, but the inbox has a 75-message limit and that's a possible bottleneck. The officers get automatic notifications, but it's actually more work--erasing notifications and approving requests. 2013-01-22T14:43:39+08:00 |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| I agree with subforum for 18+ topics (sexuality oriented thread, hentai recommendation, etc.) since some people already complaint about their existence in the 'ordinary' discussion board. As long as we can keep it SFM, I see no problem with that. |
| The most important things in life is the people that you care about |
| I see no reason for this not to be implemented. |
Im a Devil's advocate. Its just too fun. Running on borrowed time.  |
| I would definitely support this one. |
"When you have lemons, you make lemonade; and when you have rice, you make rice balls." |
| I don't see why not as long as its "appropriate 18+" ish... As long as you don't cross the line of excessive "stuff". |
 |
| *sigh* Well, I'm still waiting for a mod response. Thanks for bumping it anyways you two S: |
| Not that any of the mods care what I think but I love this idea. |
| I'm dead. Don't come looking for me. |
| Well, I'm under 18 but I'll probably just break the rule anyway. But if it means we have an area where we can casually swear and post lewd photos without fear of a ban then I'm up for it. |
 |
PricklySmickey said: Now it is...Sorry, Mello. But I think your thread has been officially derailed. What can ya do when there's not a mod in sight willing to respond to this... |
MellowJello said: PricklySmickey said: Now it is...Sorry, Mello. But I think your thread has been officially derailed. What can ya do when there's not a mod in sight willing to respond to this... Maybe turning it into a spam thread would get the mods attention? |
Raikozen said: Well, I submitted reports (sorry folks), so they'd have to at least look at the thread to respond now.MellowJello said: PricklySmickey said: Now it is...Sorry, Mello. But I think your thread has been officially derailed. What can ya do when there's not a mod in sight willing to respond to this... Maybe turning it into a spam thread would get the mods attention? And it's now about to beat the review thread in post count, so it can't be hurting... |
shintai88 said: I'll refrain from questioning your ability to read and just quote myself:Doesn't work, since anyone can lie on the internet about their age. In the event that fake ages become a problem, a warning to users entering 18+ threads should suffice. No one is responsible except the user if they entered a restricted thread despite being warned. Thanks for posting in my thread anyway. Mind if I can get your position on this suggestion, shintai88? |
| Just wondering, do you want this to be a "check box" option that the user selects upon creation of the thread? If so, what prevents abuse of the system in terms of making threads that are NSFM simply to block underage users from accessing the thread. |
| Shameless self-promotion: http://www.pernerple.com/ Slyr3do0n said: MAL is the dark underbelly of the anime community. While other naive fanboys and fangirls run around in real life forming clubs and squealing in deafening high pitch noises about their favourite animus, we remain here, meticulously dismantling the credibility of each and every show, until all that remains is a steaming pile of tropes and ass pulls which we then devour to gratiyfy our glutinous and masochistic desires. |
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