jmal said: Kaioshin_Sama said: it seemed like they felt every show they did really early on had to have some sort of gimmick to it A otaku parody series like Lucky Star referencing other series like Haruhi doesn't really feel like a gimmick to me, but even if we count it, what was the gimmick in FMP Fumoffu, FMP TSR, Air, Clannad/After Story, Munto/SoraAge, Kanon or K-ON? Those all came out in the period you're citing and don't seem to fit what you're talking about. Nothing since seems to either. I think the only franchise they've done with a real storytelling "gimmick" to it is Haruhi (and those just added to my love for it, so yay). Man you guys really won't let a single point of criticism towards Kyoani pass unchecked and unargued will you? I'll at least say this, if I viewed those episodes today with the current mindset I had there's a chance I might not label them as gimmicky, but I'm really in no hurry for a rewatch of Haruhi. symbv said: Kaioshin_Sama said: Err... but the language you used to express your dislike about the Endless Eight and your criticism against the approach taken by KyoAni for that arc would actually make you look a bit like a "hater" though... Perhaps you mean by suppressing that uneasiness and fear about being branded a hater you actually let that criticizing mind of yours pent up too much frustration which seeped out onto the post you wrote? Well I'm certainly not going to sit here and say I positive opinion of the arc. I don't see why I should be excluded from using strong language to emphasize my distaste for what they did there. I think it's possible to express distaste for something without it being fostered of pure hatred unless you're trying to suggest that I'm unjustified in my criticisms of the arc in which case I don't really know what to tell you. ]I think the TV series is where the decline looks most serious. I guess the prevalence of 1-cour format also hurts any attempt to make long and complex series. The fact that Yamato and Gundam are all reboot of franchises from the old days can also be perceived as a sign of weakness. If there is any recent success about a space adventure TV series, it would be Moretsu Space Pirate but it is something very different from the epic opera drama stuff like Yamato or Gundam and the character designs also show heavy influence of moe style, but I guess that may be the best hope for space-bound story in a midnight TV anime series in the future. Gundam Unicorn is as much of a reboot of the franchise as Gundam 08th MS Team was, which is to say not at all. It takes place between the Char's Counterattack movie and Gundam F91 and serves to fill out a never explored part of the Universal Century time line. I don't really see how that's a sign of weakness since the franchise is just doing what it's always been doing which is to grow itself. Space Battleship Yamato is indeed a reboot though it's already starting to deviate from the original and continues to be very strong and enjoyable. I don't really see how this is a sign of weakness either. These are about as fair and deep analysis to me as people that go around claiming that Kyoani show are nothing but "moeshit". I tried Moretsu Pirates but it was a quick drop for me. I just couldn't get into any of the characters who all came across as surprisingly flat and underdeveloped to me and while the showcasing of day to day operating of starships was kind of interesting the total lack of emotional involvement in what was going on eventually caused that angle of the show to wear thin on me pretty quick. I kind of equate it with the other attempts to modernize the mecha/space genre that aren't going so well. |
Kaioshin_Sama said: Well, heavy use of strong language is what people get marked as a "hater". But then perhaps I never hold such intense emotion for things I see in anime - I only use really strong language when it is really really bad, like allowing a grossly out-model drawing or animation to show up in the anime airing. As much as you have your justification in criticizing the arc, the way you keep ranting about it in sentence after sentence in that strong language indeed gives the impression that you are a KyoAni hater. Well I'm certainly not going to sit here and say I positive opinion of the arc. I don't see why I should be excluded from using strong language to emphasize my distaste for what they did there. I think it's possible to express distaste for something without it being fostered of pure hatred unless you're trying to suggest that I'm unjustified in my criticisms of the arc in which case I don't really know what to tell you. Kaioshin_Sama said: Well, the fact that it comes from the same universe (UC) and has links to the successful Char's Counterattack shows the attempt to ride the coattail of the successful franchise from the old days, reboot or not. Gundam Unicorn is as much of a reboot of the franchise as Gundam 08th MS Team was, which is to say not at all. It takes place between the Char's Counterattack movie and Gundam F91 and serves to fill out a never explored part of the Universal Century time line. Kaioshin_Sama said: Well, what I mean for 'sign of weakness" is not about Gundam or Yamato itself, but the current state of space opera/mecha anime as a whole. The fact that they would refrain from the risk of creating new original space opera/mecha series and concentrate on doing sequel or reboot for an old series can be taken as a sign of weakness for this genre in the current time. Not sure about what you intend to mean for your last sentence (" These are about as fair and deep analysis to me as people that go around claiming that Kyoani show are nothing but "moeshit".") though. I don't really see how that's a sign of weakness since the franchise is just doing what it's always been doing which is to grow itself. Space Battleship Yamato is indeed a reboot though it's already starting to deviate from the original and continues to be very strong and enjoyable. I don't really see how this is a sign of weakness either. These are about as fair and deep analysis to me as people that go around claiming that Kyoani show are nothing but "moeshit". Kaioshin_Sama said: The interesting thing about Moretsu Space Pirate is the general acclaim by fans, including quite many old-school ones, is mainly about how steady it develops the story and characters and not trying to go for cheap style tricks (something one may categorize as "moe" stuff). Solid pacing and attention to details are some of the points I heard most often among fans of this show, and a lot of those started as skeptics as the show only gained traction at least after 5 episodes, so it was a show that was not marked as likely success but somehow attracted fans by its own merit - it ended as a decent success story with its far better than expected BD sales and really good fan reputation. And to me the emotion is there, but perhaps it is not the type of emotion involvement that you yearn for, one that can be better delivered by the more intense drama from a space opera.I tried Moretsu Pirates but it was a quick drop for me. I just couldn't get into any of the characters who all came across as surprisingly flat and underdeveloped to me and while the showcasing of day to day operating of starships was kind of interesting the total lack of emotional involvement in what was going on eventually caused that angle of the show to wear thin on me pretty quick. I kind of equate it with the other attempts to modernize the mecha/space genre that aren't going so well. |
symbvDec 3, 2012 3:14 PM
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
symbv said: ]Well, heavy use of strong language is what people get marked as a "hater". But then perhaps I never hold such intense emotion for things I see in anime - I only use really strong language when it is really really bad, like allowing a grossly out-model drawing or animation to show up in the anime airing. As much as you have your justification in criticizing the arc, the way you keep ranting about it in sentence after sentence in that strong language indeed gives the impression that you are a KyoAni hater. Well then I guess you should see some of the language and vitriol that gets leveled at shows and creators outside of the Kyoani circle if you think what I'm saying comes across as overly harsh. What I'm inclined to think is really going on here is that you are just not that used to seeing this sort of things in relation to Kyoani shows because admittedly it really doesn't happen all that much. Truth be told I've never found a more easygoing and non-critical fanbase as the core Kyoani one as long as it relates to whatever the studio itself is doing. If not then all bets tend to be off. Well, the fact that it comes from the same universe (UC) and has links to the successful Char's Counterattack shows the attempt to ride the coattail of the successful franchise from the old days, reboot or not. Well there's also the Alternate Universe which is still being explored at the same time as well as tons of manga and books that provide side stories to multiple continuities. I don't really see what exactly is wrong with using a familiar setting and further fleshing it out over the course of multiple decades or how it's a sign of weakness. People enjoy Gundam stories so they keep making them, that just seems like sensible business practice to me. Well, what I mean for 'sign of weakness" is not about Gundam or Yamato itself, but the current state of space opera/mecha anime as a whole. The fact that they would refrain from the risk of creating new original space opera/mecha series and concentrate on doing sequel or reboot for an old series can be taken as a sign of weakness for this genre in the current time. Not sure about what you intend to mean for your last sentence (" These are about as fair and deep analysis to me as people that go around claiming that Kyoani show are nothing but "moeshit".") though. Oh they're still trying to make new franchises, I'm just not certain as to how well it's going and if there's been all that much success lately do to just poor management by the staff. If it's not something like Total Eclipses incredible levels of QUALITY animation it's something like Guilty Crown's almost total inability to hold down a narrative or have characters acting consistently within a set character from episode to episode. As for the reboots, I just see it as renewed interest and creators trying to reintroduce todays audience to the classics of old. The interesting thing about Moretsu Space Pirate is the general acclaim by fans, including quite many old-school ones, is mainly about how steady it develops the story and characters and not trying to go for cheap style tricks (something one may categorize as "moe" stuff). Solid pacing and attention to details are some of the points I heard most often among fans of this show, and a lot of those started as skeptics as the show only gained traction at least after 5 episodes, so it was a show that was not marked as likely success but somehow attracted fans by its own merit - it ended as a decent success story with its far better than expected BD sales and really good fan reputation. And to me the emotion is there, but perhaps it is not the type of emotion involvement that you yearn for, one that can be better delivered by the more intense drama from a space opera. Yeah I really thought this one would do it for me actually, but I kind of lost patience waiting for some sort of emotional involvement and intrigue in what was going on. Instead it felt like a bunch of people just doing saying they were doing stuff for 20 minutes and then you get the result and the show ends and that's it. It really surprised that for all the technical details and procedural stuff they got down just how emotionally flat and dispassionate all the scenes still managed to play out. I don't think the show got very good ADR direction either to start with as I recall lot of the lines and dialogue coming off as dispassionate, flat, and emotionless as the characters were carrying out their tasks in what you think would be fairly tense and serious situations. Instead it felt like they were filling out a day at the office, there just wasn't much chemistry or a sense that the characters were interacting or that we were getting to know them at all and this just dragged on to the point where I couldn't really be bothered to follow it anymore. That's great that others found something to appreciate about it though but for me it was a pretty huge disappointment. jmal said: Well, wait. You've gotten only as many counters as you've offered criticisms. Isn't that only fair? I don't think it's fair for you to say "every show they did really early on" had a gimmick but not fair for us to point out that you've only provided an example from one franchise (plus a second one that doesn't seem to fit the definition, but it's not critical), which is objectively not "every", or most, or a majority. That's not blind fanboyism or anything like that, it's just arithmetic. If a claim isn't meant to face replies, a blog with closed comments works better than a web forum. It's fair if you think every point of criticism for Kyoani deserves or needs a counter, as if to imply that all criticisms of Kyoanis execution is wrong and just needs to be proven so. Sorry but I still found the constant references to Kadokawa products and Haruhi seiyuu to be pretty gimmicky and commercialized. It's not Endless Eight or Non-Chronological airing level of production gimmickry but it's still something I felt didn't add much humor to the show and got really really tiresome by about the time that Konata went to see a concert by her own VA. That was about the point where I ended up dropping the show as it was clear to me that they'd run out of actual gags and were now just resorting to saying, "Hey remember Kadokawa made this show, you should buy all these products, here they're even in the show and the characters are buying them". To be clear it wasn't that they were making these references in an otaku comedy to me that I took issue with, it was just how increasingly self-serving and blatantly so it came across that felt gimmicky and crass to me. It went well above and beyond what I normally see in otaku reference comedy where at least you'll see tribute being paid to things that weren't produced by the party in question and where such gags didn't become a constant. |
| Alright! Something to look forward to this crappy winter. Can't get too bad with KyoAni. |
| My Anime Blog: http://www.Entravity.com/ Episodic overviews of the latest anime. |
bippo said: Omg dat bird. CM 3 Everybody loves somebody. I can only hope KyoAni plans to sell plushies of said bird eating dat mochi. |
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New Key Visual |
| Everybody loves somebody~ Damn, this is looking better and better :D and that bird lol. |
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Kaioshin_Sama said: I have seen those remarks, but even though your wording did not sound as harsh as those people, it will still be viewed as harsh enough for you to be viewed as a "hater" - that's my point. Well then I guess you should see some of the language and vitriol that gets leveled at shows and creators outside of the Kyoani circle if you think what I'm saying comes across as overly harsh. Kaioshin_Sama said: Not wrong, but it is still making use of a successful franchise. We are talking about why nowadays we do not see much success for original anime in space opera genre. Making more Gundam anime is fine, but it is still a sign of weakness for the space opera genre as so little attempt or effort has gone into making original anime for this genre.Well there's also the Alternate Universe which is still being explored at the same time as well as tons of manga and books that provide side stories to multiple continuities. I don't really see what exactly is wrong with using a familiar setting and further fleshing it out over the course of multiple decades or how it's a sign of weakness. People enjoy Gundam stories so they keep making them, that just seems like sensible business practice to me. |
| So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old? I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them? I wonder how long people would put up with this. As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series. |
| New CM! I need this in my life. |
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iLostReason said: Omg.New CM! I need this in my life. I get excited everytime something new is released for the show. Can't wait to see what kind of antics that bird will be involved in. |
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iLostReason said: New CM! I need this in my life. You got any Larry and Curly to go with that Moe? I'll let myself out. |
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iLostReason said: New CM! I need this in my life. I didn't want to watch this anime... but damn it! |
| Looks awful. |
LoneWolf said: @Josh makes me sad to call myself Canadian. |
iLostReason said: New CM! I need this in my life. And we still have no idea what the show is going to be about. Great marketting strategy KyoAni (and I'm not joking)! |
| I will watch it and I will love it. |
jmal said: bippo said: TRAP ANIME If it's Ono D, he can be any gender or combination thereof he wants and it'll be awesome. ♥ Ono D. I wholeheartedly agree. |
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| its like they did a palette swap on chitanda or something....she had that "kininarimasu" look |
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| Looking forward to it. This studio always has quality animation. |
| "I left everything I own in One Piece" ~ Gol D. Roger |
-MgZ_ said: Can't wait for this! Will it surpass K-ON?! We will see. :O Something surpass K-ON? It'll be a god-like anime :3 |
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| Oh shit another overhyped anime just because it's by KyoAni. |
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| I want a plushy of that bird asap. |
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Sa-chan_ said: It's quite possible it will be good enough to deserve all the hype, like Hyouka or Chuuni. KyoAni will deliver.Oh shit another overhyped anime just because it's by KyoAni. |
| Look to the seiyuus... Most of them are newcomers. I guess KyoAni spent less amount of zeny for this project. Let see if it worth the show. |
| Kon'nichiwa! Ogenkidesuka? For those who play 3DS, please add my Friend Code 0662-3506-8849 |
greanseal said: Look to the seiyuus... Most of them are newcomers. I guess KyoAni spent less amount of zeny for this project. Let see if it worth the show. Because KyoAni hasn't cast rookie/lesser known seiyuu in the past to great success. Besides, it has OnoD, which makes it instantly amazing. |
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greanseal said: I wouldn't worry too much about the seiyuu being newcomers. KyoAni has the knack for picking very talented seiyuu as seen by Chuunibyou and Nichijou. Look to the seiyuus... Most of them are newcomers. I guess KyoAni spent less amount of zeny for this project. Let see if it worth the show. Heck, I think most of the cast of K-ON were newcomers ( Or atleast only had a handful of roles at the time ) but look at them now :P |
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| doesnt look very good but ill prolly end up watching it anyways since its kyoani |
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| I'll definitely be watching this. Perhaps... There will be a touch of romance involved? I hope so! |
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