Kurapika vs Sasuke: The Better Avenger

SetsukoHara said:

No, it's a fake. Kurapika never took down the whole team.

tsudecimo said:

Does Kurapika become relevant again after the CA arc?

judals said:
He's talking about crippling the leader and defeating them indirectly.

SetsukoHara said:

He didn't really defeat them, their group is still there, doing the same shit they used to do. He killed some members, annoyed them a bit, but he didn't reach his objective.

AqworldThunder said:
I can feel nothing but pity for the 12% who voted for Sasuke.

judals said:
So? Did he finish him off? No. That's what it means to kill someone. This threshold. Not "tiring him out".

How was it his achievement? Brother dying not by his hands? Or him finding out that this is not his subject of revenge? Him being defeated by Itachi? Fight subverting into a Orochimaru vs Itachi while Sasuke watches?
No. I don't count that.

Pakunoda was killed by his own chain. Did Sasuke implant the disease into Itachi? If you're gonna pull "by that logic" card, use it right.


Danzo killed himself, plain and simple. Again, Sasuke became irrelevant and it was him keeping Shisui's eyes from Tobi, as if sasuke never existed.

Avenge his clan by "killing" Itachi, failed.
Avenging them by killing Danzo, failed.
Destroy Konoha, pending, but we both know that's not gonna happen.


Kuraika at least carried out a revenge, and coldly tortured and killed Uvogin. Even in a quest of revenge that lasted 7-20 episodes, he did far more than Sasuke in almost 600 now. Ultimately the writer moved to other things with him and even made him better than he already was. While Sasuke is no longer relevant anymore even when he gets screen-time.

gettogaara said:
[...]

gettogaara said:
@judals
Wow. If you won't even accept that Sasuke killed Danzo then there's no point in continuing.

HiatusXHiatus said:
Actually I don't like both of them, but sasuke is worse. The best avenger is GUTS(berserk)

judals said:


Guts is a special case. And yes he is.
Kurapika is up there too.


You know what's funny? If Gon does kill Pitou, he'd have accomplished more as an avenger than Sasuke.

insan3Spectre said:


Better Avenger than Guts, too.

judals said:


Touche, but I like Guts more as a character.

insan3Spectre said:


Can't really say who I prefer, don't really even want to try. I just know I've really grown to like Gon quite a lot in his own right.

gettogaara said:

I just wish people would try not to let their dislike for a character cloud their judgement. I mean, I don't even like Sasuke. Especially lately.

insan3Spectre said:

Better Avenger than Guts, too.

tsudecimo said:

Yeah a lot of people judge how good a character is by how much they like/dislike them. Same here, I have 7 Naruto characters in my favorite lists but he still didn't make the cut.


How do you judge how good an avenger is? I'm asking because I'm curious and throughout this topic nobody really said what makes a good avenger.

insan3Spectre said:

I don't know, I was just making a joke based on the fact that Gon would have actually killed his target. Don't take my post too seriously. I haven't even caught up with Naruto.

tsudecimo said:

No, you misunderstood me. This not about Naruto and the Sasuke thing. Forget the existence of Sasuke for a second. I just wanted to know your opinion on what makes a good avenger.

I'm asking this because if we forget the comparison to Sasuke is Kurapika actually a good avenger?

insan3Spectre said:


I guess a good avenger would have to actually get his revenge. Kurapika hasn't yet, since he ultimately chose his friends over his revenge at that particular instance. So, he is an incomplete avenger. I do expect him to go after the Spiders again at some point. His character arc is, I would say, definitely not over.

insan3Spectre said:

I guess a good avenger would have to actually get his revenge. Kurapika hasn't yet, since he ultimately chose his friends over his revenge at that particular instance. So, he is an incomplete avenger. I do expect him to go after the Spiders again at some point. His character arc is, I would say, definitely not over.

SaSa-Zoldyck said:
I can't hate on foolish little brother, Sasuke is what got me in to Naruto and whats still keeping me reading that damn manga but Kurapika is the better avenger. Hell Kurapika is the only avenger between the two.

Sasuke never avenged his clan, Itachi got him pinned and planned his own death, Danzo committed suicide. Kishi never had the balls to make Sasuke actually kill somebody. And the worst part is that Kishi made mad people manipulate Sasuke like he is a lost sheep.

So in the end, Kurapika who hardly got developed as a character and received very little panel time compared to Sasuke is a better avenger because Togashi is just a beast when it comes to characterization and doesn't make mistakes like Kishi.

luteum said:
I don't like either of them but if I have to pick one I would go with Sasuke because he is hotter.

Ahemm, I mean they both didn't accomplish their revenge goal fully but at least Sasuke is closer, while Kurapika failed.

1 out of 1 for Sasuke
1 out of 3 for Sasuke ( Danzo being the most important one out of the 3)
2 out of 12 (?) for Kurapika (failing to kill the leader is a pretty big fail)

judals said:


Dying on their on/suicide does not count as 'accomplishing revenge"

And even if he did manage to kill them, his goal is always scrapped, making it all for naught, and so far, it's 0 out of thousands? of Konoha citizens.

luteum said:

Wow you are biased.

gettogaara said:
@judals
I'm making excuses because I said It's a bad idea to argue against a character on their own board? No, that's just common sense. And almost every one of your posts makes it fairly obvious that you're biased against Sasuke.

Either way, I am not here to continue arguing about who's the better avenger because frankly I'm not emotionally invested enough in Sasuke to continue defending him but at the very least I can provide undeniable proof that Danzo was killed by Sasuke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPHijvYxLEs

Sasuke stabs, Danzo through Karen hitting his heart. Danzo flees while dying. Then he activates the Reverse Four Symbols Sealing Technique where when he dies anything in a specific range around him will be sealed within his body. The jutsu
does not kill him, it was activated to take Sasuke and Tobi with him. Don't believe me? Here's more evidence.

http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/481/17

Tobi says "That jutsu would have sucked you into his corpse to die with him...He must had it set to go off when he died."

judals said:


You keep making claims and just end them there without any points made whatsoever. I think you're the one being biased.
I know there's a big fan base for naruto and some fans are really committed, but try to see things reasonably. Your original post made little sense.
And do you really think you'll be considered unbiased just because you claimed you don't like either? It seems people try to use this as some credibility jutsu.

luteum said:


See here is why you are biased. You think everyone who disagrees with you in this shitty argument a naruto fan. When the truth is that I'm not even remotely close to being one and if anything I'm close to being a HxH fan, since I actually watch it reguraly and not randomly with friends like I do with Naruto. You are without a doubt biased against Sasuke and I don't think even you believe that Kurapika accomplished anything, you are just saying that because he is being compared to Sasuke.

1/ Kurapika failed miserably to kill the leader, which was his biggest and most important revenge target

2/ Kurapika only killed one spider on his own will. That is Uvgon. I also don't get the nonsense about him torturing him, because that didn't happen and Uvgon didn't suffer at all. Kurapika was very mentally affected by his first kill. In the original version he is showed screaming and shaken up by his first kill. So sorry to break it to ya, but he is not a cold blooded killer.

3/ The blonde girl didn't not die because Kurapika wanted to kill her. She died on her own will. She is not as important to Kurapika as the boss either way and if Kurapika wanted to kill her, he wouldn't have given her the choice to keep living by shutting her mouth.

4/ No matter how you wanna twist. Kurapika only killed one spider as a part of his revenge and filled to accomplish his revenge goal. Which is why he was frustrated when he let the boss go but decided that his friends life are worth more. So he FAILED

5/ Sasuke official revenge goal are/were. Itachi then later on Danzo and the three elders. The whole killing everyone in the village thing is not part of his revenge goal, it something he said because he was filled with hate and they didn't cause his brother's death. So no Sasuke currently killed 1 out of 3, which better than Kurapika because Danzo is more important than the other two elders while Uvgon is not more important than the boss and the rest of spiders combined.

6/ You can go fuck yourself for all I care. I don't care enough for either series/characters to post more than this and to reply again to a biased and deluded individual like yourself. See, this is why I stay away from fandoms especially the HxH one. Obnoxious idiots with an inferiority complex regarding the other shounen success and popularity. Hiatus x Hiatus will never end and Toagashi is a lazy fuck. YOU MAD?

gettogaara said:
@judals
This will be my last post since this is going nowhere fast.

In what way am I biased against Kurapika? I'm not belittling what he's done and the whole discussion on whether or not Pakunoda should be counted began by following your train of thought. No one is calling you biased simply because you're arguing against Sasuke or don't like him. It's because of how you allow that dislike to carry into your arguments and therefore continuously attempt to minimize his accomplishments with irrelevant information.

A perfect example is how you've brought up the episode count multiple times while conveniently ignoring that Naruto is a much longer running show with a huge amount of fillers and that in the entire first part, Sasuke couldn't even touch Itachi. Not to mention you compare the entire span of the series to just the Yorknew arc. Either way, how quickly someone gets their revenge isn't important. If Kurapika returned to a prominent role in HxH hundreds of chapters later and took down the phantom troupe then I'd consider him the better Avenger.

You just don't seem to want to hear that Sasuke succeeded in anything. I mean look how many posts it's taken to get you to accept Danzo as a kill for Sasuke and now you're downplaying it by saying things like "That's one kill, out of all Konoha" when that was never a realistic goal in the first place. So no, mentioning your distaste for a character is not an excuse but an observation that makes further discussion pointless.

gettogaara said:
@judals
*sigh* I really wanted that to be my last post but I can't very well leave things like this. I never once accused you of being biased for disagreeing with me about Itachi. In post #107, I even said that it didn't bother me that you don't agree on whether it was a kill or not because it came down to how we each defined killing and was therefore debatable. It was your obstinate stance that Danzo was a suicide that first led me to say "I just wish people would try not to let their dislike for a character cloud their judgement."

As for the episode count, you comparing the entire series as if Sasuke was actively pursuing Itachi the whole time to just the Yorknew arc is showing favoritism to Kurapika, ergo bias. There were other examples I could mention but if you don't consider that one biased then there's no point. If you wanted to be fair about it then comparing the specific arcs where each character was actively pursuing their object of revenge would be better. The Itachi Pursuit Arc(Where Sasuke defeats Orochimaru, Deidara and Killerbee as well) ran 59 chapters(27 episodes)and Yorknew ran 53 chapters(21 episodes) But in this arc, there was Jiraya vs. Pain which has nothing to do with Sasuke or Itachi. That lasted exactly 7 episodes(127-133) before focus returned to Sasuke. To be fair though there were also some episodes in Yorknew that didn't have Kurapika or the troupe. 37,38,48. So that makes it a very close, Itachi Pursuit(20 Eps) Yorknew(18 Eps)

No you're not using the same logic. It was never about numbers for me. In my very first post, I said I found Sasuke to be the better avenger because he achieved his original goal in killing Itachi(Let's not get back into that. Just a difference in opinion.)

If Kurapika's original goal had been to take down Uvogin and then Pakunoda, he'd be the better avenger but Kurapika's original goal was to kill or detain all of the spiders. While I'll admit, his goal is far more difficult, he's still working on that

By not being a realistic goal, I didn't mean it couldn't be done just that it clearly wasn't going to happen(Although I would've liked to see him try.) If Sasuke decided to go through with it, Naruto would stop him. And even if Sasuke somehow managed to beat him and burn the whole village down, that wouldn't make him a better or worse avenger, just a better murderer.

Because you keep using the bias card out of its application. You're basically saying "agree with me that Sasuke killed Itachi or you're biased", which is a cheap argument at best.

judals said:

This guy has a grudge on the newfags HxH (2011) Chimera ant arc fans

This is clearly gonna turn into a discussion between you two about how everyone else is biased, and I hope you assure each other well enough.

Except you are the only person who is being called biased out of the others who voted for Kurapika. Gee, I wonder why.

tsudecimo said:

Give up dude, it really is pointless. Sauske is a character hated by fans and non fans and this is the HxH board, I'm actually surprised that Sasuke's votes are not below %5, expecting them to acknowledge anything good about Sasuke or Naruto the series seems far fetched.

the logic holes in that post were just too much