Shakugan no Shana III (Final) Episode 14 Discussion

Offline

Dec 2010

2675

You know during the end of Yuji's speech and during the slaughter of Flame Haze's after said speech i couldn't help but smile; the Flame Haze's all season long have been almost intolerable and even the Flame Haze's which have been the foundation of the show like Shana have regressed. Yuji shut them all down and it was exactly what i was hoping he would say. I said this in the last episode's post Shana has NO reason to fight Yuji while Yuji actually had a reason; the stupid nun exemplifies why the Flame Hazes suck right now; Yuji was giving a solid sounding plan to end the timeless war which has gone on for who knows how long and all she does is deny it without thought just like i said they would.

It always bothered me a little bit; like last season when Margery killed that boy and barley regret it; or when Shana in season 1 didn't regret using the "existence" of someone else; granted she changed a lot since then thus her development but in general Flame Haze's are truly cold and unlikeable. They seem to be like anti peace or something as if the fighting over such long time froze their sense of self if they ever had any to begin with.If they find Yuji's whole plan to good to be true is one thing; instead of denying it they could review its possibility but instead they denied its very thought like the word peace sounds horrible or something. Their reaction tells a thousand words; when Yuji ended his speech they broke down because they realized how useless their fighting is.

The ending simply added to why i disliked Shana this season; her anwser to Yuji's grand order is " i don't have any standing on the future; in actuality I'm clueless but your idea doesn't sound good to me, why you ask? it just doesn't so I'm going to stand in your way while i think of a reason why i should do so." It's disagreeing with no justification; with no reason to do so; its like Yuji said when he introduced himself about being so divine they can't comprehend or something like that; well its like they can't comprehend the world of peace he speaks of or what it implies. I have been rooting for Yuji from the get go since i believed he had a reason for what he was doing and this episode just solidifies that thought.

If you truly think about it the Flame Haze's have never once sought resolution. According to the SoF he once tried this grand order before thus at least showing the interest to end the war; the Flame Haze's on the other hand have no such desire. The Flame Haze's duty is to protect the balance which the Denizens threaten because they consume existence correct? yet don't you find it ironic that they don't give a crap about the humans which possess that existence.

Now I'm not saying the Denizens do but as they showed with their reactions they are totally for going to a new world and leaving the humans be while the Flame Haze's feel its their duty or something to obscure change simply because they would become redundant. So to simplify they are putting their own ego as Flame Haze's their sense of purpose above what they were originally suppose to be doing in the first place and that was protecting the balance which they seem to have forgotten along the way.

InfiniteDestinyJan 13, 2012 3:11 PM

Jan 13, 2012 3:11 PM

#16

ReverentStigma

Offline

Aug 2011

147

I do

InfiniteDestiny said:
You know during the end of Yuji's speech and during the slaughter of Flame Haze's after said speech i couldn't help but smile; the Flame Haze's all season long have been almost intolerable and even the Flame Haze's which have been the foundation of the show like Shana have regressed. Yuji shut them all down and it was exactly what i was hoping he would say. I said this in the last episode's post Shana has NO reason to fight Yuji while Yuji actually had a reason; the stupid nun exemplifies why the Flame Hazes suck right now; Yuji was giving a solid sounding plan to end the timeless war which has gone on for who knows how long and all she does is deny it without thought just like i said they would.

It always bothered me a little bit; like last season when Margery killed that boy and barley regret it; or when Shana in season 1 didn't regret using the "existence" of someone else; granted she changed a lot since then thus her development but in general Flame Haze's are truly cold and unlikeable. They seem to be like anti peace or something as if the fighting over such long time froze their sense of self if they ever had any to begin with.If they find Yuji's whole plan to good to be true is one thing; instead of denying it they could review its possibility but instead they denied its very thought like the word peace sounds horrible or something. Their reaction tells a thousand words; when Yuji ended his speech they broke down because they realized how useless their fighting is.

The ending simply added to why i disliked Shana this season; her anwser to Yuji's grand order is " i don't have any standing on the future; in actuality I'm clueless but your idea doesn't sound good to me, why you ask? it just doesn't so I'm going to stand in your way while i think of a reason why i should do so." It's disagreeing with no justification; with no reason to do so; its like Yuji said when he introduced himself about being so divine they can't comprehend or something like that; well its like they can't comprehend the world of peace he speaks of or what it implies. I have been rooting for Yuji from the get go since i believed he had a reason for what he was doing and this episode just solidifies that thought.

If you truly think about it the Flame Haze's have never once sought resolution. According to the SoF he once tried this grand order before thus at least showing the interest to end the war; the Flame Haze's on the other hand have no such desire. The Flame Haze's duty is to protect the balance which the Denizens threaten because they consume existence correct? yet don't you find it ironic that they don't give a crap about the humans which possess that innocence.

Now I'm not saying the Denizens do but as they showed with their reactions they are totally for going to a new world and leaving the humans be while the Flame Haze's feel its their duty or something to obscure change simply because they would become redundant. So to simplify they are putting their own ego as Flame Haze's their sense of purpose above what they were originally suppose to be doing in the first place and that was protecting the balance which they seem to have forgotten along the way.

i do agree with alot of what your saying, i don't dislike the flame hazes but i don't see why they are so bent out of shape over the plan, i mean to me it sounds great. Shana won't have to keep fighting until she dies. No human will ever disappear anymore. I honestly don't see the downside.

"Even if the morrow is barren of promises... nothing shall forestall my return!"

Jan 13, 2012 3:41 PM

#17

Jinta_n

Offline

Dec 2009

415

I don't get it, isn't Yuji the good guy here ?

Can't the flame hazes just live a life like normal humans ? Do the flame hazes think they are worthless, if they can't kill denizens ? Isn't it a good thing to have peace ?

Shana could just life a normal peaceful live together with Yuji and didn't have to fight anymore.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Yuji's plan sounds really good to me.

But I hope that his speech isn't just a cheap trick and he is planning something totally different....

I would be really disappointed :/

But oh well... great, interesting and confusing episode.

4/5

Jan 13, 2012 4:02 PM

#18

enceladus

Offline

Oct 2011

He said that spending thousands of years in the rift, he was sure that creating Xanadu will not cause the previously feared disaster. What's that about? This disaster may be the only excuse I see for the Flame Haze to be against his plan.

And if he attempted this before I guess people like Sophie already knew what his plan was all along, and yet they didn't tell others about it, what is there to hide?

Jan 13, 2012 4:25 PM

#19

Durmanstainer

Offline

Oct 2010

InfiniteDestiny said:
You know during the end of Yuji's speech and during the slaughter of Flame Haze's after said speech i couldn't help but smile; the Flame Haze's all season long have been almost intolerable and even the Flame Haze's which have been the foundation of the show like Shana have regressed. Yuji shut them all down and it was exactly what i was hoping he would say. I said this in the last episode's post Shana has NO reason to fight Yuji while Yuji actually had a reason; the stupid nun exemplifies why the Flame Hazes suck right now; Yuji was giving a solid sounding plan to end the timeless war which has gone on for who knows how long and all she does is deny it without thought just like i said they would.

It always bothered me a little bit; like last season when Margery killed that boy and barley regret it; or when Shana in season 1 didn't regret using the "existence" of someone else; granted she changed a lot since then thus her development but in general Flame Haze's are truly cold and unlikeable. They seem to be like anti peace or something as if the fighting over such long time froze their sense of self if they ever had any to begin with.If they find Yuji's whole plan to good to be true is one thing; instead of denying it they could review its possibility but instead they denied its very thought like the word peace sounds horrible or something. Their reaction tells a thousand words; when Yuji ended his speech they broke down because they realized how useless their fighting is.

The ending simply added to why i disliked Shana this season; her anwser to Yuji's grand order is " i don't have any standing on the future; in actuality I'm clueless but your idea doesn't sound good to me, why you ask? it just doesn't so I'm going to stand in your way while i think of a reason why i should do so." It's disagreeing with no justification; with no reason to do so; its like Yuji said when he introduced himself about being so divine they can't comprehend or something like that; well its like they can't comprehend the world of peace he speaks of or what it implies. I have been rooting for Yuji from the get go since i believed he had a reason for what he was doing and this episode just solidifies that thought.

If you truly think about it the Flame Haze's have never once sought resolution. According to the SoF he once tried this grand order before thus at least showing the interest to end the war; the Flame Haze's on the other hand have no such desire. The Flame Haze's duty is to protect the balance which the Denizens threaten because they consume existence correct? yet don't you find it ironic that they don't give a crap about the humans which possess that existence.

Now I'm not saying the Denizens do but as they showed with their reactions they are totally for going to a new world and leaving the humans be while the Flame Haze's feel its their duty or something to obscure change simply because they would become redundant. So to simplify they are putting their own ego as Flame Haze's their sense of purpose above what they were originally suppose to be doing in the first place and that was protecting the balance which they seem to have forgotten along the way.

Well, it`s actually an old thing about "lesser evil for the greater good". Yuji wants to achieve this greater good without a care about lesser evil - killing flame hazes, feeding humans to his armies, risking the world structure itself.

Flame Hazes on the other hand can`t comrehend the greater good, going into blind denial. They can`t let maneaters run free, they can`t trust them. It`s like Devil himself saying to you that he`s gonna fix the world so that demons will stop being demons and everybody is gonna be happy - and that is after centuries of bloodshed done by them. Will you trust a demon?
Before they knew only one thing - they were fighting against evil organisation comprised of evil human-eating creatures. It is now that they`ve learnt the truth. So many of them lost their will to fight as you can see.

Those who still fight against the Snake are:

1) Avengers. They don`t give a shit about justice, world war or anything. They just hate denizens. They want to kill them and they will keep doing so.

2) Old Hazes who got too used to fighting. They have solid beliefs and they are not going to give them up. They believe in protecting humanity and the world against evil denizens who threaten it. They know who their enemy is and won`t listen to anything coming from that enemy.

3) Flame Hazes who don`t mind creating a new better world but can`t tolerate denizens eating humans NOW and HERE. If somebody kills a child in front of you you won`t stand still just cause you know that they are gonna fix that soon. Bal Masque = thousands of denizens and they are all gonna eat.

4) Those who can`t say anything against Yuji`s words but just can`t agree either while watching flame hazes being slayed even after loosing their spirit, famous criminals celebrating their bloody victory, humans being devoured, the world being threatened by risky plans without even consent from its inhabitants. I bet Shana is one of those too. She wants a better future but doesn`t want to get dirty. It`s like "i agree with your good intents but can`t support you cause you are doing it wrong, i can`t offer a better solution but neither can accept yours. So i`ll stop you and then we`ll see what can be done"

5) Cautious ones who prefer the not so happy but stable and already existing reality, rather than a doubtful dream which might as well turn out to be a catastrophe and destroy the both worlds.

6) Power hungry. They don`t want to loose their authority and influence. And if Yuji is successful then they will loose it, they won`t have any subordinates and no justification for their actions. And maybe they will also loose their powers.

7) If Yuji`s plan leads to Flame Hazes loosing their immortality and abilities and becoming ordinary people then many would resist. I would for example. I want my immortality and magic and wouldn`t mind killing billions to get it. I wouldn`t give a fuck about better future for everyone if it would endanger my magic and eternal youth. So such people cannot be reasoned with and Yuji got to kill them all, if they get in his way. Since they are more like bad guys who are against the world salvation.

I personally support Yuji. No great deeds can be done by soft words alone. Sometimes sacrifices are necessary. And risks are also part of it. Even if you risk the existence of the world itself. If you are too scared of death to evolve then it`s better to die to begin with. The life without development, without evolution, without changes - is worse than death. It has no meaning.

And anyway... TRUE MEN don`t care ! TRUE MEN just jump into action and do what they think is right !!! TRUE MEN never give up on their dream and never doubt their ambitions !!! TRUE MEN never care about ANY risks, they just go and achieve their goal or die trying to do so!
Only pussies hesitate and freeze just because of risks. MAKE THE WORLD BETTER OR JUST DESTROY IT !!! Either way is better than rotting without changes...

And BTW - Great Trolling Yuji-kun. Margery was an easy one, but to make a whole army run in chaos and hysteria just with few words... Nice one!
So, Yuji, Breath in, now breath out
Hands up, now hands down
Back up, back up
Tell me what you're gonna do now
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep trollin' trollin' trollin' trollin'..................

DurmanstainerJan 13, 2012 4:44 PM

Jan 13, 2012 4:57 PM

#20

Riptos

Offline

Nov 2009

3742

InfiniteDestiny said:
You know during the end of Yuji's speech and during the slaughter of Flame Haze's after said speech i couldn't help but smile; the Flame Haze's all season long have been almost intolerable and even the Flame Haze's which have been the foundation of the show like Shana have regressed. Yuji shut them all down and it was exactly what i was hoping he would say. I said this in the last episode's post Shana has NO reason to fight Yuji while Yuji actually had a reason; the stupid nun exemplifies why the Flame Hazes suck right now; Yuji was giving a solid sounding plan to end the timeless war which has gone on for who knows how long and all she does is deny it without thought just like i said they would.

It always bothered me a little bit; like last season when Margery killed that boy and barley regret it; or when Shana in season 1 didn't regret using the "existence" of someone else; granted she changed a lot since then thus her development but in general Flame Haze's are truly cold and unlikeable. They seem to be like anti peace or something as if the fighting over such long time froze their sense of self if they ever had any to begin with.If they find Yuji's whole plan to good to be true is one thing; instead of denying it they could review its possibility but instead they denied its very thought like the word peace sounds horrible or something. Their reaction tells a thousand words; when Yuji ended his speech they broke down because they realized how useless their fighting is.

The ending simply added to why i disliked Shana this season; her anwser to Yuji's grand order is " i don't have any standing on the future; in actuality I'm clueless but your idea doesn't sound good to me, why you ask? it just doesn't so I'm going to stand in your way while i think of a reason why i should do so." It's disagreeing with no justification; with no reason to do so; its like Yuji said when he introduced himself about being so divine they can't comprehend or something like that; well its like they can't comprehend the world of peace he speaks of or what it implies. I have been rooting for Yuji from the get go since i believed he had a reason for what he was doing and this episode just solidifies that thought.

If you truly think about it the Flame Haze's have never once sought resolution. According to the SoF he once tried this grand order before thus at least showing the interest to end the war; the Flame Haze's on the other hand have no such desire. The Flame Haze's duty is to protect the balance which the Denizens threaten because they consume existence correct? yet don't you find it ironic that they don't give a crap about the humans which possess that existence.

Now I'm not saying the Denizens do but as they showed with their reactions they are totally for going to a new world and leaving the humans be while the Flame Haze's feel its their duty or something to obscure change simply because they would become redundant. So to simplify they are putting their own ego as Flame Haze's their sense of purpose above what they were originally suppose to be doing in the first place and that was protecting the balance which they seem to have forgotten along the way.

This is the episode I've been looking for for the last 3 months and I have not been disappointed. I agree with all points presented here.

It was awesome seeing Sophie panic, I really cant stand her character at all, she didnt even justify why the other Hazes shouldnt listen. She like many of them are so stuck up their own ass that they cant accept the prospect of peace. It was pretty much the plan I was expecting Yuji to come up with and I am glad I was correct on this end.

The one thing I truly dont understand is why Shana still has to fight, she has openly admitted she loves Yuji and he loves her. She still doesnt seem to get the fact he is doing this so she can live a normal life without fear.

The way it seems to me at the moment is...the Denizens need power of existence to live, this has been explained which is why they kill humans in the first place. Now, the Grand Order has stated they will pretty much be given their own world where no such acts need to be committed. The Flame Hazes on the other hand have been tasked to stop them...but with no reason to fight...it seems like many of them would not want to relinquish their powers and seem to want to kill and maim as well. Hardly seems becoming of the good guys of the show.

I have been pro-Yuji from the start and it is continuing more so now that it seems almost crystal clear that Yuji's order seems to be the true good end that this show needs. I really hope that something dumb doesnt happen that keeps the world the way it is, after all...would that truly be saving it?

Jan 13, 2012 5:03 PM

#21

Estoy_Gordo

Offline

Jan 2008

1589

Well that was a load of hypocrisy. Yuji said the Denizens not allied with the Flame Hazes, will leave, and thus bringing peace to the worlds, because the Denizens won't have to kill/consume in order to exist.

I can understand why the Flame Hazes are freaking out b/c their sole purpose is to protect the balance of the worlds, which the Denizens disrupt by consuming the power of existence.

But now that they said they're leaving, the Flame Hazes no longer have a purpose. They can never return to a completely normal life b/c they gave up being human, only to live their life either by being killed doing their duty or having their existence burned to nothingness from their contract with Crimson Denizen Lords.

Now that Yuji and his Denizens have more or less won their battle, the only thing I don't get is; WHY are the Denizens still killing the Flame Hazes that have given up!? That doesn't make any sense. Yuji could easily order them to withdraw if the Flame Hazes gave up, yet he does nothing but watch as they kill the people Yuji vowed to bring peace to. What a douche-bag.

And Shana is no better. Speaking from a logical standpoint, excluding any ulterior motives or accidents during the creation by the God of creation/Snake of the Festival, Shana, no longer has a purpose along with the other Flame Hazes, other than to continue their hostility toward Yuji's grand order plan in case of any unforeseen said accidents or ulterior motives (if any at all). Shana just seems to me like a complete tool. She mindlessly follows what Alastor and the other Flame Hazes teachings to kill any Denizens, which the Crimson Lords themselves support doing by giving their powers to Flame Hazes, regardless of if any Denizen consume power of existence at all,. They're no different than real-life humans who kill each other for no reason other than their own gain IMO.

Estoy_GordoJan 13, 2012 5:15 PM

Jan 13, 2012 5:19 PM

#22

Kite1990

Offline

Dec 2011

Okay..just to let everyone know...Yuji is not a flame haze. The flame hazes oppose the denizens, why? Because the Denizens feed on human souls and erase them from the world when they do that. The Flame Hazes are there to limit the Denezins consumption. The war was initiated by the Denezins.

If Flame Hazes are being hunted and an army of Denezins killing them, isn't that enough reason to fight back? They were being killed off and faced a threat against them and the entire world regardless of the plan or not. They had all the reason to fight back.

Also regarding the creation, the god of creation mentioned that the world will suffer and might have been destroyed thousands of years ago if his plan went through. Of course that would be common knowledge. The Denezins wished for it all along. But when Yuji mentions that the world they are fighting for will be free of Denezins and that his plan won't destroy the world.

They lost all morale and actually believed him. Their reason for fighting ended. What I don't understand is why didn't the Denezins let them retreat. I understand limiting the threat but if they let them retreat..that would give flame hazes less reason to fight.

Jan 13, 2012 5:24 PM

#23

nseika

Offline

Apr 2008

1123

Even if he say liberating Flame Haze of their duty, I don't think Yuuji cared of anyone other than Shana.
And it's not like any of the Bal Masque troops would be able to hurt Shana.

CMIIW, his Plan A is to build Xanadu as a sealed district in human world, overflowing with power so the denizens can just go to that place and get all the power they need. Got his ass kicked and sealed away into the gap.
Now, Plan B is to build a whole new world into that unused empty lot between two worlds where he's been imprisoned for 3000+ years.

Durmanstainer said:
7) If Yuji`s plan leads to Flame Hazes loosing their immortality and abilities and becoming ordinary people then many would resist. I would for example. I want my immortality and magic and wouldn`t mind killing billions to get it. I wouldn`t give a fuck about better future for everyone if it would endanger my magic and eternal youth. So such people cannot be reasoned with and Yuji got to kill them all, if they get in his way. Since they are more like bad guys who are against the world salvation.

There's no coming back after becoming Flame Haze, at least in the matter of existence.
Making the contract is the same as being eaten, they lose all their own existence and replaced with their partner. To say, their existence might not be so different from those they kill other than they have human shell and the two mind in one body setting.
That could be one reason why Yuuji mentioned all denizen will retreat other than those contracted, because if they go away, then the thing that made the Flame Haze exist in this world will go away too.

The only good motive for now would be, how many would need to be sacrifice in order to finish that plan. Even if he's the god of creation, building a whole world again wouldn't come without a price, would it ?

nseikaJan 13, 2012 5:36 PM

Jan 13, 2012 5:49 PM

#24

Offline

Apr 2010

106

This episode is the best one so far.

True, Yuuji could let the Flame Hazes go after they lost their fighting spirit. But honestly, I don't really give a damn about them anyway.

Jan 13, 2012 5:51 PM

#25

Durmanstainer

Offline

Oct 2010

4kicks said:
Well that was a load of hypocrisy. Yuji said the Denizens not allied with the Flame Hazes, will leave, and thus bringing peace to the worlds, because the Denizens won't have to kill/consume in order to exist.

I can understand why the Flame Hazes are freaking out b/c their sole purpose is to protect the balance of the worlds, which the Denizens disrupt by consuming the power of existence.

But now that they said they're leaving, the Flame Hazes no longer have a purpose. They can never return to a completely normal life b/c they gave up being human, only to live their life either by being killed doing their duty or having their existence burned to nothingness from their contract with Crimson Denizen Lords.

Now that Yuji and his Denizens have more or less won their battle, the only thing I don't get is; WHY are the Denizens still killing the Flame Hazes that have given up!? That doesn't make any sense. Yuji could easily order them to withdraw if the Flame Hazes gave up, yet he does nothing but watch as they kill the people Yuji vowed to bring peace to. What a douche-bag.

And Shana is no better. Speaking from a logical standpoint, excluding any ulterior motives or accidents during the creation by the God of creation/Snake of the Festival, Shana, no longer has a purpose along with the other Flame Hazes, other than to continue their hostility toward Yuji's grand order plan in case of any unforeseen said accidents or ulterior motives (if any at all). Shana just seems to me like a complete tool. She mindlessly follows what Alastor and the other Flame Hazes teachings to kill any Denizens, which the Crimson Lords themselves support doing by giving their powers to Flame Hazes, regardless of if any Denizen consume power of existence at all,. They're no different than real-life humans who kill each other for no reason other than their own gain IMO.

About killing Flame Hazes who gave up - now they gave up but later older hazes might regather the army. Panicking Flame Hazes can be recovered after a thorough talk. So it`s better to kill as many of them now in order to make sure that Flame Hazes will loose enough of their manpower to no longer pose a threat to Yuji`s Grand Plan. He cannot allow another failure. And it`s better to destroy any opposition completely and thoroughly just in case.
Yes, it`s not a good thing to do, especially after all this talk about salvation for everyne. But Yuji is gonna change the whole world for the better, not just save few hundreds of Flame Hazes. So he`s ready to make sacrifices. As i already said in my previous post, Yuji is fine with the lesser evil for the Greater Good. Killing defenceless Flame Hazes is that lesser evil and it`s nothing compared to stopping the endless conflict and meaningless deaths lasting for who knows how long. Few deaths now are nothing. Much more died throughout the history of this struggle and are gonna die if Yuji doesn`t achieve his goal.

As for Shana - i also mentioned it - look at the end of the previous page of the thread.

Jan 13, 2012 6:09 PM

#26

Offline

Dec 2010

265

I'm so damn glad that Yuji finally announced his Grand Order. And it was, as I suspected, a completely sterile and peaceful plan for all of humankind/denizenkind. Great, problem solved. Shana can go home with Yuji now.

But no! The fighting does not end. The denizens rape through the stunned Flame Hazes. I just gotta say

. True, Flame Hazes no longer have a reason to fight, but similarly, Crimson Denizens have no longer a reason to fight either!

The reason of lesser evil for greater good doesn't stand at all, because if you attack them while they no longer have a will to fight, you are simply killing defenceless civilians. This act in itself will give the Flame Hazes a new reason to fight for, and that is revenge. It doesn't protect Xanadu's creation at all because this act is simply angering and patronizing those stronger Flame Hazes who simply can't be killed by normal Denizen footmen (Shana, Wilhelmina, Sophie, Samuel, Khamsin......). If the denizens pull back to defend the Seirei Den, they would still defend their Xanadu and probably defend it way better than madly rushing the enemy. Violence will only create more and more violence. What happens in the end will be a situation where Flame Hazes don't exist to maintain balance in the two worlds anymore (because balance will maintain itself with Xanadu), but instead, Flame Hazes will continue to fight for their own vengeance against the Denizens. How dafuq is that supposed to be eternal peace?

One more thing I have to say, I really, really hate Sophie now. She's just a useless bitch who only talks big but has nothing inside. She's not even a real Flame Haze because she obviously doesn't fight to maintain balance. Yuji's speech didn't affect her at all, she probably took it all as bullshit. She's just a war maniac who can't stand one day of nothing-to-fight-against.

Jan 13, 2012 6:13 PM

#27

Offline

Dec 2010

2675

In war there will be losses; Yuji mentioned it best right before he made his speech and like Durmanstainer mentioned those who retreat could always be reorganized by people like the stupid nun thus no matter how brutal or "hypocritical" you think it may seem when it comes down to it; it really just is intelligent warfare. Also what do you think would occur if your leader; your "god"; the person who gave you motivate to fight on and completely screwed up the mentality of the "enemy" said "let them live; we wish none to die".... ya sorry dude but i just don't picture that coming out of any military commanders mouth much less on in this scenario.

Also going back to what Yuji said before he made his speech; if this war does not conclude then many more people will die. People often take for granted that in reality people die each and every single day; i forget the number but i was once told the average of the number of people that die by the hour (or something similar) and i was stunned; and in this setting on top of that already realistic number you add the Denizens which perhaps double it. There is no such thing as a perfect life because life isn't meant to be; in this new world there will be probably be arguments and issues just like in the old world however at the very least the meaningless devouring and taking of existence would be removed from the equation.

Riptos said:
It was awesome seeing Sophie panic, I really cant stand her character at all, she didnt even justify why the other Hazes shouldnt listen. She like many of them are so stuck up their own ass that they cant accept the prospect of peace.

This, it annoyed me when she was looking down during that part of the speech like she didn't even want to acknowledge that the words were being said at all; its like she was thinking "crap someone finally will put an end to my power... my position" I think Durmanstainer was the one to say it but i seriously think that is a solid theory because why else would they deny such a plan without consideration? If its like Durmanstainer said and they simply don't trust them because they are the "enemy" is one thing; they can be hesitate and review the scenario but they gave no indication of doing so; they simply denied it all; and the stupid nun wasn't the only one; from expression the guy with one eye and Shana didn't seem pleased by the words either; and i bet if you asked them why they would be left at absence for words for that is how shallow their reason for fighting really is.

I kind of feel bad for Yuji; he is being so unappreciated by the person he is doing it for its not even funny; also she says she "loves" him but like i mentioned before she doesn't even have it in her to trust him or to consider his words. Shana has been so shaky as a character this season its unreal. She starts of in episode 4 in complete denial saying he isn't even really Yuji (i don't even want to get into the fact that in that fight she got owned, her dialogue was so contradictory; you are Yuji, your aren't..) To later being scared of him simply because he was stronger than her showing her big ego getting in the way; and to now with her shallow resolve based on her "strongest" unrestricted spell. Don't get me wrong i don't hate or even dislike Shana, but because i like her character i can't really say i enjoy the road her character has taken this season.

Aside from the confession and the half vow; i found nothing deep or touching or even sincere about her words; it feels like they can be twisted at any moment. I could totally picture if the stupid nun told her some form of revelation her viewpoint would go 180 in the direction the nun wishes showing how much of a tool she really is.

Yuji at least is standing on solid ground; and he has been ever since he left at the end of the last season; i value resolve so when you put Yuji against Shana it really isn't hard to tell who has more right now.

newnar said:
One more thing I have to say, I really, really hate Sophie now. She's just a useless bitch who only talks big but has nothing inside. She's not even a real Flame Haze because she obviously doesn't fight to maintain balance. Yuji's speech didn't affect her at all, she probably took it all as bullshit. She's just a war maniac who can't stand one day of nothing-to-fight-against.

This, she is a war maniac; and the sad thing is that she doesn't appear to be the only one either; Also as the Flame Haze's leader she is a bad influence; like the guy who's eyes were covered by hair; he was just realizing Yuji's words and she slaps him for it... I highly doubt it; but i would really welcome the day she dies; Whether it be Yuji or the Trinity someone killing her off would be awesome.

In any case whether Yuji's plan is flawless or not is not the point; because even i believe that it may have some down point's as there are somethings that are too good to be true however the fact that they didn't even consider it goes a long way in terms of where they stand in regarding peace. I highly doubt they give a damn about their original purpose anymore; they are so stuck up in power and have so little regard for humans that they forget that they were once human...

InfiniteDestinyJan 13, 2012 6:23 PM

Jan 13, 2012 6:22 PM

#28

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newnar said:
True, Flame Hazes no longer have a reason to fight, but similarly, Crimson Denizens have no longer a reason to fight either!

What are you talking about? Denizens do have a reason to fight, they want to realized The God of Creation's dream of creating the new world.

Jan 13, 2012 6:29 PM

#29

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Valky said:

newnar said:
True, Flame Hazes no longer have a reason to fight, but similarly, Crimson Denizens have no longer a reason to fight either!

What are you talking about? Denizens do have a reason to fight, they want to realized The God of Creation's dream of creating the new world.

This, Flame Haze's entire point of existence is to maintain the balance of the world; the reason they need to maintain it is because of the presence of Denizens which consume large amounts of existence in order to survive thus offsetting the balance; however with Yuji's new world they wouldn't need to offset the balance as they would relocate to their better world thus making Flame Haze's redundant; however Denizens still need to fight in order to achieve said world because Flame Haze's like the nun are so stupidly stubborn that they insist on trying to get in the way even though it would solve everyone's problem. "the ideal perfect scenario" it truly is puzzling to see why they deny it so much; as for possibilities nothing pleasant comes to mind though; only greed of power or such things mentioned by Durmanstainer before.

InfiniteDestinyJan 13, 2012 6:39 PM

Jan 13, 2012 6:35 PM

#30

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Valky said:

newnar said:
True, Flame Hazes no longer have a reason to fight, but similarly, Crimson Denizens have no longer a reason to fight either!

What are you talking about? Denizens do have a reason to fight, they want to realized The God of Creation's dream of creating the new world.

All they have to do to realize the creation is to sit on their asses and wait.

Jan 13, 2012 6:41 PM

#31

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newnar said:

Valky said:

newnar said:
True, Flame Hazes no longer have a reason to fight, but similarly, Crimson Denizens have no longer a reason to fight either!

What are you talking about? Denizens do have a reason to fight, they want to realized The God of Creation's dream of creating the new world.

All they have to do to realize the creation is to sit on their asses and wait.

Wrong; the Flame Haze's are inferior in terms of power when you compare the SoF and them but they aren't so weak that they couldn't interfere if you simply let them.

Jan 13, 2012 6:43 PM

#32

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newnar said:
All they have to do to realize the creation is to sit on their asses and wait.

lol,

Declaring your plan and make your plan reality are two different things. There's no guarantee your plan will always go your way. It's not like the world that Yuuji intend to create suddenly appears out of nowhere instantly.

Extreme plans always have an opposition, especially if it's something so extreme like creating a new world. Opposition are bounds to happen because there are people who want to live in the status quo.

Jan 13, 2012 6:50 PM

#33

nickgypsy

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Apr 2010

im sorry i thought this episode was really corny
been a fan for a long time but i thought this was stupid

Jan 13, 2012 6:52 PM

#34

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Valky said:

newnar said:
All they have to do to realize the creation is to sit on their asses and wait.

Hello, it's not like the denizens can do anything to help Snake of the Festival create Xanadu. And I'm sure that the "opposition" hardly existed until the denizens brought it upon themselves. Most of the Flame Hazes don't give a fuck about Xanadu as long as it doesn't affect the human world.

newnarJan 13, 2012 6:55 PM

Jan 13, 2012 6:57 PM

#35

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newnar said:

Valky said:

newnar said:
All they have to do to realize the creation is to sit on their asses and wait.

Hello, it's not like the denizens can do anything to help Snake of the Festival create Xanadu. And I'm sure that the "opposition" hardly existed until the denizens brought it upon themselves.

Once again you should broaden your view; the Denizens can do something they can keep the Flame Haze's off the creators back. By logic's standpoint alone creating an entire world... i doubt Yuji wants to worry about being jumped in the process; so eliminating the opposition or at the very least ensuring they don't interfere is a must.

Jan 13, 2012 7:01 PM

#36

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newnar said:
Hello, it's not like the denizens can do anything to help Snake of the Festival create Xanadu. And I'm sure that the "opposition" hardly existed until the denizens brought it upon themselves. Most of the Flame Hazes don't give a fuck about Xanadu as long as it doesn't affect the human world.

Well, they can at least fight the Flame Hazes/Other opposition to buy some time to make sure the plan realized.

If you want to create something like a new world, of course it is expected that there are others trying to disturb your plan and you have to deal with it. But that's the cost Seirei no Hebi has to pay to make his plan success.

They don't give a fuck you say? Of course they do. If Xanadu exists, they are no longer needed. Duh.

Jan 13, 2012 7:05 PM

#37

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Valky said:
They don't give a fuck you say? Of course they do. If Xanadu exists, they are no longer needed. Duh.

They can very well live on with their normal lives.<<BTW, isn't this what Yuji wants with Shana from the entire start?

If not,
that makes the entire Flame Haze faction alot less on the protagonist side. Imagine policemen killing normal people just because there are no more criminals.

From the mass chaos in the Flame Haze side in the episode itself, I'm sure the number of those who will continue to threaten Xanadu's creation is less than the number of fingers I have.

Jan 13, 2012 7:21 PM

#38