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Poll: Gosick Episode 4 Discussion


Jan 29, 2011 9:59 PM

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The way that motorcyclist murder was done was pretty obvious, just who's behind it all is kind of confusing.

I think that both the funeral and the motorcyclist cases are related in a way, maybe through that new girl, Avril I think her name is?
You may read this quote , "However, by that point you'll have been torn to pieces."
 
Jan 29, 2011 10:42 PM
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can I consider that teacher is a loli also?? lol
 
Jan 29, 2011 10:47 PM

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Snowical
''If you're a gentleman, maybe I'm a goddess.''[/quote said:


I laughed so hard at that part.

It's nice to see that there's gonna be 24 eps.
Real Hell is inside a person-Ai Enma (Jigoku Shoujo Mitsuganae)
Do you know where hell is? Inside your head-Chrona (Soul Eater)


 
Jan 30, 2011 2:46 AM

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I am wondering who is the actual murder of the biker, looking forward to the next episode because it looks like we will find out more.
 
Jan 30, 2011 3:13 AM

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Grevil: As sharp as a bat. Seriously, when he took down the wire from the tree he didn't think, "Hmm... he probably rode into this"?
 
Jan 30, 2011 8:28 AM

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so haven’t anyone noticed that the so called “culprit” behind the rider incident, Avril, and Millie Marl all have GOLDEN HAIR? as the title implied “The Golden Thread Destroys the Moment”
and with book Avril found w/c she knew that was there with the title translated as “The Golden Fairy of the High Tower,” the golden hair seems to connect all of them. and the death of Maxim have something more in it, with different bad rumors following his name as Grevil said.
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Jan 30, 2011 10:17 AM

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Oh damn, are you guys just smart or am I Just... slow.

I'm not good with detective stuff so I can't solve mysteries quickly like you guys do XD

 
Jan 30, 2011 11:28 AM

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I doubt it's Arvil it's to obvious...
 
Jan 30, 2011 12:26 PM

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Compared to the previous arc, this arc seems a lot more interesting. The introduction of two mysteries and various elements is making it fun to watch it play out. I still don't like Victorica's DEM though, since it just seems way too perfect.
 
Jan 30, 2011 1:46 PM

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Avril probably has something to do with the murder.
 
Jan 30, 2011 2:42 PM
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This episode seemed kind of random but with a great lead into something that will hopefully be a big plot mystery thing that'll tell us more about our characters. I can't wait.
 
Jan 30, 2011 4:12 PM

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Not going to read 4 pages, so someone might have already pointed these out...

Whaaaaaat the hell? The wire thing was used in so many shows already and the loli's prediction about the murder just didn't make any sense. It must have been a child or woman? Seeing the blonde murder leads the male lead to fantasize about his dream girl being blonde? Both are utterly ridiculous...

Then the corpse falling out...seriously? People die, while standing? That's not how a human body is supposed to work...
And the conclusion of the case was pretty clear after all pieces were presented and yet the male lead and the inspector were totally surprised? Only thing unclear is the motive...and it still isn't...for both cases...

I can watch this show without boredom but I really need to stop treating this show as any kind of mystery/detective story, which really isn't easy because it takes itself and its cases so seriously....
 
Jan 30, 2011 4:38 PM

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Oosran said:
I'm sure some are familiar with this one from Umineko, but anyway, "The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story".


As much as Beatrice suggests following these rules... she never confirms that she herself is following them, a loophole in Umineko... as for Gosick... it's quite possible.

Isn't it Victorica? Everyone here keeps saying Victorique... Whilst on MAL and UTW subs it says Victorica...
 
Jan 30, 2011 4:47 PM

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Wow, it's interesting but honestly crazy. Why would a head chopped off by a wire NOT FALL OFF IMMEDIATELY, but rather STAY ON while a motorcycle's going really quickly AND WHILE THE BODY WAS LAUNCHED IN THE AIR?! Also, he died STANDING UP, MID POUND AGAINST THE DOOR? WTF? I mean ... seirously?
Anyways, I actually like Avril. Of course they had to introduce yet another interesting character then have her be the culprit ... DUH ... -_-" Plus she's so OBVIOUSLY suspicious it's kind of sad really ...
Anyways, Victorica's predictions were really far fetched ... logic gaps are HUGE. What if Kujo just likes blondes? O_O
Anyways, can't ANY of the male characters (Glaviel or something and Kujo) figure anything out without Victorica? Of course not ... -_-"
 
Jan 30, 2011 5:02 PM

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CRAZEH247 said:
Isn't it Victorica? Everyone here keeps saying Victorique... Whilst on MAL and UTW subs it says Victorica...
The subs I've been watching have her name spelled as "Victorique." I only just noticed that her name here on MAL is set as Victorica. Wikipedia has her listed as Victorique. I'd say whatever the light novel has her name listed as (Victorique or Victoria) should be the official spelling. I've never read the LN, so I don't know for sure.

Any LN readers out there?
 
Jan 30, 2011 6:58 PM

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everybody's saying how easy the mystery is, However i think that because they are so easy to solve, they're is a deeper meaning.

if Avril was the murderer, then who was the one caught? well some pointed out that it may have been the wrong person. think about it, if it were an innocent person they would say so. if anyone were to be accused of a false murder they would try to defend themselves. however she did not. this either means she actually did do it or she has something to do with Avril and doesn't want to jeopardize Avril.

people complain about the murder being impossible due to physics, you people are correct; somewhat.these methods are plausible. it is possible to cut a head off without completely removing it. however, with the speed that bike was going the wind should have pushed the head off. but if the cut was at the right angle, the wind would've pushed the head onto the neck instead of off.

the motorcycle traveled only a short distance, so the guy being dead so that was completely reasonable. yes the muscles become loose after death but have u ever rode a bike freehand? there's a centrifugal force that keeps the wheel in whatever position it was in; in this case vertical/upright. from what u can see from the anime the bike only traveled about 5 meters, at its speed the bike wouldn't fall over.basically there wasn't enough time for the bike to fall.

then the dead man standing up. a normal death would leave you dead on a floor, but what part of his death seemed normal. we don't even know how he died. even in description the guy was called the "mummified" knight. humans don't naturally die mummified. put yourself in the knights position. if you were locked up in a crypt you'd freak out and knock on the door like he did. if you don't go insane during that process you'd attempt to find an escape route even know their might not be one. so he must have died pretty quickly for him to be in that position.

thinking a mystery is easily solved is too naive. a lot of innocent people get killed because of a poor investigation. a good murderer wouldn't be caught that easily even with all the right leads. for that matter the murder might have already set up those lead in order to frame someone.

the funny thing is if the mystery was as easy as u guys said then huge disappointment.
another funny thing is that those people who said solving the "mystery" was easy, i honestly wonder what you think the mystery is.
if you think you solved how the biker was killed the no cookies for you. often the methods of killing is the easiest,because the evidence says so. oh and you got a close up of when the wire cut the riders neck in a flashback. if anyone saw that they could solve it.
if i though the mystery is something else milk and cookies for you. personally my greatest mystery is actually about victorique. i wonder if she's just really smart or is there actually something else. and like in the first episode, what did she mean by expecting the Asian dude(can't remember name)

loved the ep, leads a lot of possible outcome and development.
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Jan 30, 2011 7:21 PM

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@Iilia It's ヴィクトリカ=Victorika
 
Jan 30, 2011 7:33 PM
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lol, the mummy scared me
 
Jan 30, 2011 7:45 PM

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Yaya-chan said:
@Iilia It's ヴィクトリカ=Victorika


I think it's actually Victorique... after some research I think the Novel actually has it as Victorique... but then again... I'm still very unsure and a little confused.

EDIT: I just checked on MAL for the Gosick Novel characters... and that also says Victorica.
Modified by CRAZEH247, Jan 30, 2011 7:48 PM
 
Jan 30, 2011 8:02 PM

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Crazy detective cases that are solved nearly instantly, and a very suspicious transfer student named Avril, what can this mean and i feel sorry for the dead guy. But really to die standing there for 8 years really... Anyways i got a feeling some random event will happen that will seal everything for this arc. Unless something else happens, well just have to wait, lets hope it is not to complicated for everyone to understand.
 
Jan 30, 2011 8:09 PM

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I like how the anime throws little bits of trivia at you, like when Victorique said what the primrose stood for.

Anyways, I can't wait for the next mystery. I hope this one gets solved quickly though, it doesn't seem too exciting or anything.

Also, what's with the British girls this season? First we get Cecilia in IS, now Avril in Gosick. I'm not saying I'm against it, but it seems to be more than a coincidence or something.
 
Jan 30, 2011 11:03 PM

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CRAZEH247 said:
Yaya-chan said:
@Iilia It's ヴィクトリカ=Victorika


I think it's actually Victorique... after some research I think the Novel actually has it as Victorique... but then again... I'm still very unsure and a little confused.

EDIT: I just checked on MAL for the Gosick Novel characters... and that also says Victorica.


Heres the official spellings.

ヴィクトリカ(Vikutorika) = http://gosick.tv/character/img/victorica_new.jpg (Victorica)
セシル (Seshiru) = http://gosick.tv/character/img/cecil.jpg (Cecil)
グレヴィール (Gureviiru) = http://gosick.tv/character/img/glaviel.jpg (Glaviel)

Tokyopop obviously didn't bother to check the names for the english TL of the light novel.
 
Jan 30, 2011 11:12 PM

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This mystery feels much more substantial than the others. I'm enjoying it so far. Avril is way too suspicious, though it would be interesting if they threw in some red herrings to f*ck with us.

 
Jan 31, 2011 12:13 AM

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They made Avril appear blatantly suspicious. It's probably a trap !
 
Jan 31, 2011 3:00 AM

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Damn... Victorique is so cute...
 
Jan 31, 2011 5:34 AM

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Honestly, this is boring me to no end. Victorique feels too artificial, way too "in-your-face I'm so smart and arrgoant, yet so adorable and cute ". Kujo is so far a generic slapstick "smack around" male that will still come through when it really matters. I'm not giving up on this yet, but so far the message I get is "pretending to be intelligent but all we really wanna do is do a moe loli show" rather than an actual mystery show.
 
Jan 31, 2011 5:46 AM

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Uhh, that was kinda creepy and twisted. Seriously, I like this anime a lot.
 
Jan 31, 2011 5:53 AM

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hellsascendant said:


You totally ignore the fact, that this show is made of many little cases and one big mystery part, with the little cases being a joke.


then the dead man standing up. a normal death would leave you dead on a floor, but what part of his death seemed normal. we don't even know how he died. even in description the guy was called the "mummified" knight. humans don't naturally die mummified. put yourself in the knights position. if you were locked up in a crypt you'd freak out and knock on the door like he did. if you don't go insane during that process you'd attempt to find an escape route even know their might not be one. so he must have died pretty quickly for him to be in that position.


It is pretty clear how he died. He was inside, the door was locked, nobody went in for 8 years. How do you think he died? Also it doesn't matter how he died or how quick he died. No death would leave you standing in that position for 8 years except if someone put a stick up your arse.


if you think you solved how the biker was killed the no cookies for you. often the methods of killing is the easiest,because the evidence says so. oh and you got a close up of when the wire cut the riders neck in a flashback. if anyone saw that they could solve it.

Yes, you said it. Anyone could have solved the case...and yet only that loli was able to? What the hell is that inspector doing? He found the wire spanned across the road, he saw the blood on the wire, he saw the corpse and yet he was surprised when loli solved the case?

This show wants to be a detective story with mystery elements but the detective story part is just lame because they are so easy to see through. If the anime actually knows this, I'd have no problem, but besides loli everyone seems to be braindead as they are all amazed by the most obvious things.
If it however turns out that those cases were all lies and in fact some kind of big mystery was responsible for all that then this show wouldn't be a detective story at all.
 
Jan 31, 2011 6:45 AM

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haters gonna hate indeed, and geez they are forgetting the setting indeed. it's an occult country where almost everyone believes in Ghost Stories,

and as for the little cases being a JOKE?, IT'S NOT EVEN TRYING TO IMPRESS YOU idiot, it's your own fault for getting yourself trolled. and it's a DIRECT, STRAIGHTFORWARD case where you delved too much and now disappointed. own fault indeed.

as for the WIRE, GLAVIEL FOUND WRAPPED AROUND A TREE NEAR THE SCENE OF THE CRIME, NOT SPANNED ACROSS THE ROAD, you're watching the wrong subs my friend ^^
and he said it is impossible for the rider of motorbike for have his head cut off while in the air that's why he suspected it to have been done after the bike stopped, he didn't see the actual crime as you have seen, so why are you nagging about Glaviel too much,.and the suspect used a WIRE for cutting of the head, not a fucking GUILLOTINE, so that's why the head just detached after the victim tumbled upside down in the air.

as for those thinking Glaviel is stupid and an idiot, well do so, you might regret it later on. ^^

this guys just hate realistic life cases, oh if everyone keeps nagging here so much, just go back watching Detective Conan, maybe they'll try throwing some overall backstory and possible conclusion at all.
Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch.
 
Jan 31, 2011 8:20 AM

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AmberFebruary said:


Just because you choose to ignore certain obvious flaws doesn't mean we all have to play along. Also, say what...expecting actual well thought out cases from an anime that presents itself as a detective story and advertises itself as such is idiotic?
Also Kujou was describing exactly what we saw, so for that hair dude to not being able to solve how the murder does make him a stupid character. I don't care if he turns out to be a genius later on, right now the anime shows that he can't put two and two together.
 
Jan 31, 2011 9:46 AM

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mljato said:
AmberFebruary said:


Just because you choose to ignore certain obvious flaws doesn't mean we all have to play along. Also, say what...expecting actual well thought out cases from an anime that presents itself as a detective story and advertises itself as such is idiotic?
Also Kujou was describing exactly what we saw, so for that hair dude to not being able to solve how the murder does make him a stupid character. I don't care if he turns out to be a genius later on, right now the anime shows that he can't put two and two together.


oh sorry for the "idiot" term then, (as if i care) ^________^

oh i'm not ignoring the flaws because i have logical reasoning behind it, and you expected too much of the show that's why you feel more dumb yourself now than Glaviel himself for being disappointed,

as for BONES, oh god, that's why i more like BONES when doing anime originals and troll people because even though doing FAITHFUL adaptations like this make poeple butthurt

and for Glaviel, have you ever thought of "Spoon-fed Dependency," in a series of problems where you have to think and then a certain person delves in and gave the correct answer for one, surely why would you think for the others if you have someone to properly fed the answers to yourself, and by far, Glaviel so called "stupid" character is far more reasonable, he rather tire himself walking back and forth than solve something he wouldn't be sure of the answer.
Simplistic beauty can't be appreciated by someone who looks for something grand in everything he watch.
 
Jan 31, 2011 9:46 AM

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Lalalalalala realist or not , artificial or not , w/e or not......I juz love this anime <3 so all of u gtfo and lemme seclude myself and bring me something to kill my boredom not stupid argument
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Jan 31, 2011 10:33 AM

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I love this show, I cant wait for next ep :D
Sorry for my bad english ;c
 
Jan 31, 2011 1:50 PM

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I am suspecting that Avril wants to do the same to Kujo as happened 8 years earlier.
On the other hand I'm wondering who killed the biker. Avril has cut her fingers, but the culprit has already been arrested, or has she? They couldn't have arrested the wrong person now could they? Many things can be considered predictable, but this just seems too obvious to me.

Anyway, can't wait to see the outcome next episode.
 
Jan 31, 2011 2:23 PM
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I see there's a lot of controversy around this show. I can say I'm in the middle. The mysteries aren't anything great or amazingly bright and Victorique sometimes seems to have access to the script. While some of her reasoning makes sense, other is just too far fetched: sometimes there would be much more plausible causes for something yet she gets it right. However, I can't deny I still like the mysteries. I still find it enjoyable to watch her deductions and I still like this anime.

But I still don't get it. Did Grevil just find a blond girl with an injured finger and arrested her with no further evidence? That could be a coincidence and if it was, then Avril is probably the killer. But I don't want that to happen because it would be really obvious. Not that it hasn't been so far (everyone expected Julie to be the culprit in the Queen Berry).
 
Jan 31, 2011 3:11 PM

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I think this episode was just amazing. It differentiate itself from its previous in the simple task of presenting a case and having one of the past being solved. Victorique was great again respectively shining in the following part,

The more I see different shapes and illustrations of her the more she is charming. I think both cases should be addressed respectively so I will have my word now and I read all the other posts so some things will be in accordance to what I think but I got it mostly figured out.

About the motorcycle/Avril Bradley case, the culprit is obvious that it's Avril Bradley. The girl protecting her was either forced to admit or coerced into it or she may have her reasons to protect Avril. There is a lot to point out to my conclusion.

Case starts with Kujo's biggest mistake as a partner detective, that of day dreaming. It completely takes away your attention span. Despite what Victorique said I still have my theory that the motorcycle person could have been killed before and set loose as a setup. Avril might have known the exploits of the Queen Beryl so she might have known that Kujo and Victorique were involved. Since she Kujo first she picked him as the target. The reason I say this is that if you look at the motorcycle person you can see that the person has scarfs on bother its face and neck. Thus hiding any previous wound it may have. Grevil's first statement is rejected right away. It's possible that the head may come off in mid-air if it was severed just right to come off at the right pressure applied to it or if it happens not to long ago. Grevil's second statement, is completely wrong. The crime could have taken place way before with someone who knows what he/she is doing, especially with medical knowledge.

Now once Grevil introduces the murder weapon it becomes clearer that it was done right before the motorcycle crashed into the wall and the blood looks fresh. Unfortunately it's too bad DNA tech was not around to get blood samples. Victorique proves Grevil wrong for a first time and I agree with her based on Grevil's evidence hence the following depiction. This kind of wire looks to me like the classical meat cutter, which was popular in 1920s since meat cutting machine were not so perfect at all. Victorique knew exactly that the girl has blond hair. How? It's possible she remarked certain elements, remember that tower is high up and binoculars were around. Victorique's deduction of the culprit having wounded herself based on the culprit's motive to use this way as well as where blood was dripping from around the wire is dead on. Deducing further the the culprit did indeed cut herself.

It goes further that Victorique knew of Kujo's daydream further suggesting that something gave him a idea. That idea being Kujo seeing a glimpse of the culprit. it suggests further that Victorique was observing from afar. Now it's clear that everyone gossip of the Golden Fairy point out to Victorique being it since she is the only one in the library.

Profiling Avril Bradley, First thing are her different appearances in the spoiler
she appears to be blond, a key witness factor is her beauty point and her eyes are quite unique since she is foreigner. What grabbed me immediately is her wound on her hand. This is key info here. As Victorique said, the culprit hurt herself while putting that wire, so she committed the crime before being known in the school, which is smart of a culprit. The less you know about me the easier for me to make a crime in a new city that I may be.

Avril seems to know about the legendary ghost stories surrounding the area furthermore Avril even knew the details of the 13th step one. Further suggesting she might have planned her crime knowing the area makes it easier. She immediately takes great interest in Kujo going as far as ignoring the other girls and choosing him to show her around as well as spending time with him on the bench. Her going in your face towards Kujo while getting the shy reaction from Kujo's reaction, perhaps may suggest further a testing from her of Kujo's reactions and feelings. So she may just be confirming that Kujo was day dreaming. Second key element that gave her away is her reaction towards Kujo's remark of her wounds, dead give away! Especially since she gave a lame excuse that won't fool me at all.

What baffled me and is still a mystery is that Avril knew that in the catacombs there was a book that is titled The Golden Fairy of Hight Tower, which directly is linked to Victorique. That is rather mysterious for me right now of its meaning but judging from Avril's serious look it may mean something to her. It furthers that Avril was spotted dead on after Grevil/Kujo investigated the body suggesting further that Avril may have been observing them. Conclusion? Avril has every reason to be the culprit and that someone who took the blame may have something to do with her or she did something to that person to make them do this. Therefore Avril is real culprit 100% If I am wrong I will admit of being too arrogant of my pride of loving Sherlock Holmes. I am sure I am dead on.

About the case of Milli Marl and of Maxim, that was emotional dramatic charged case of whom I have major problems dealing with its purity despite the act being completely selfish of Milli. Elaborating, the first catching my attention is that Cecile admits that the catacomb was not used for 8 years. That alone is rather interesting as to why since there is a undertaker that is supposed to take care of it less he quit or died. Holy shit from turning gore with the motorcycle case to a horror show having a corpse fall out of a old knight. At first I though it was some sort of diplomatic person but it proved itself wrong fast enough. First noticeable detail of Maxim is those flowers. That caught my attention right away.
Rest in spoiler:

About end of episode and preview, I find that there was key development in regards to Victorique at the end. Mainly Victorique's second enemy, that of annoyance itself. What follows has a kick-ass incredible ear sensational OST! The OST at that part is a must have for me. As for the preview, can't wait for what Avril will do to Kujo and a particular part MOE worthy of Victorique.
Modified by Yumekichi11, Jan 31, 2011 3:32 PM

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Jan 31, 2011 10:35 PM

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person above, you are awesome.
@mljato, lets restate that the crazy hair dude did not see a frame by frame depiction of the indecent.
solve this if your that smart then: a man is found dead with a fractured skull, his body was still warm when found. it was a fully locked room. how was he killed and by who? that's all the crazy hair dude knew(analogy). he wasn't "that" stupid.
well victorique did have more clue due to the Asian dude that the crazy hair dude didn't have.so i don't blame him

you clearly disagree on the how and when he died, then explain how he was found dead.



all flamming about now for some real foruming

i thought of a theory that maybe both Avril and the one caught could be the culprit. i mean they both got wounds both in description. however, blood was only on one end of the wire. why would only one end have blood? she was careless the second time she was tying it? i still think they are related in some way. the way she reacted to the arrest was very suspicious. victorique's description probably was dead on, but then that made me think of the girl(or lady) caught may have cut her own hand in order to imitate Avril's cut while tying the wires in order to make herself suspicious. if DNA testing existed everything would be so much easier T T.
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Feb 1, 2011 12:14 AM

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Yea, this episode has gone quite deep in different matters.
@hellsascendantblood was only on one end of the wire. .... That is very true, in teh newspaper they didnt give a proper photos of the killer, so we would know what she really looks like. The reaction she had when Kujo questioned her was dead obvious that she is somehow related to all this, and of course Victorica. It seemed like she also knew that there was that book of the 'golden fairy' in the crypt. This is leading to something BIg
hmmm very fishy o_0
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Feb 1, 2011 12:51 AM

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Wait a minute...so Maxim was asleep the whole time from the moment she put him there until after she both died and was later buried? Really? And then Maxim died standing up like that? Is that possible?
 
Feb 1, 2011 1:36 AM

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Redfoxoffire said:
Wait a minute...so Maxim was asleep the whole time from the moment she put him there until after she both died and was later buried? Really? And then Maxim died standing up like that? Is that possible?
No you got it wrong. I think the sleep liquid may indeed be the one they use to put to sleep permanently animals. In other words he woke up alright but much later. This is a powerful sedative. Either that or I was thinking Milli killed him herself only to leave the body where she replaced it with.

TBH I think the real answer could be more of Milli going to see him since she stole the key and having him being bonded not being able to do anything she would put him to sleep afterwards. The thing is that no one would notice it since it was in the middle of nowhere.

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Feb 1, 2011 6:56 AM

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I think that suspecting Avril is the Killer is the biggest mistake.


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
 
Feb 1, 2011 7:35 AM

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Siva said:
I think that suspecting Avril is the Killer is the biggest mistake.
Well that's where the fun to get disapproved will happen. I do also consider the possibility that Avril herself got wounded because she is a accomplice. I doubt she is innocent at the very least. You have to consider that one woman may not be enough to properly attach that wire fast enough.

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Feb 1, 2011 8:05 AM

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I love how this show throws us some bits and pieces, making us speculate like mad ^^
We have to keep in mind that it's 1924.
For us: decapitated motordriver+ sharp thread found near tress=obvious,
in those days it probably wasn't.
I do understand some of the criticism here though.
While Holmes came to his conclusions by considering all the possibilities, Victorica seems to be jumping to conclusions. We don't hear her rule out other options, and that might be annoying.
Yumekichi11 said:
About the motorcycle/Avril Bradley case, the culprit is obvious that it's Avril Bradley.
Victorique knew exactly that the girl has blond hair. How? It's possible she remarked certain elements, remember that tower is high up and binoculars were around. Victorique's deduction of the culprit having wounded herself based on the culprit's motive to use this way as well as where blood was dripping from around the wire is dead on. Deducing further the the culprit did indeed cut herself.
It goes further that Victorique knew of Kujo's daydream further suggesting that something gave him a idea. That idea being Kujo seeing a glimpse of the culprit. it suggests further that Victorique was observing from afar.

That's a lot of assuming, both on Victorica's and your part.
Victorica's claim that his daydream is triggered by seeing the culprit and deducing that the culprit is a blonde is iffy, and you're trying too hard to prove her right with the assumption of binoculars.
She's oblivious to the happenings at the Mausoleum until Kujo tells her about it, so she's not all that observative.
Victorica has her mouth full of human nature, but having spent most of her life in isolation, her knowledge stems only from reading books. Therefore I'm not yet prepared to take all her conclusions for granted.
Victorica's reasoning:
Kujo daydreams of a blonde girl->people react to visual stimuli->Kujo saw a blonde girl.
She might be right, but she's implying that he couldn't have had that daydream without seeing a blonde girl.
Yet a moment earlier Kujo thought of hardworking women, Victorica being one of them. So Victorica herself might have set off that daydream.

That said, ofcourse I agree that Avril acts suspicious. So much so that I would be surprised if she turns out to be the real culprit.
And when you see her as a girl who loves adventure and mystery, her actions make sense too. In that respect it's logic she wants to be around Kujo (and isn't disappointed lol), and when finding that book goes to investigate the library.
And about her hand-injury: it's not like the only way she could have gotten that wound is by fidgeting with that wire >.>

Aside from that: I liked how Grevil calling Victorica 'grey wolf' (though obviously in contempt) linked back to Kujo''s scene in ep 1, where he mentioned he wouldn't mind talking to one. I looked into the symbolism of wolves, and Wiki says that in Christianity wolves were usually used as metaphors for greed and destructiveness.
So Grevil is probably convinced that her existence is a danger for hima and his family.

Yumekichi11 said:
Tried to find something about the fountain of Sagacity but nothing so it's fictional less I am wrong.

The version I watched translated it as 'bubbling wellspring of wisdom' lol.
Sagacity -> sagacitas = wisdom.
Modified by cleo, Feb 1, 2011 9:00 AM
 
Feb 1, 2011 8:58 AM

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@Yumekichi11: you should try to come up with more possibilities before you want to jump into one conclusion. And specially while Avril didn't act like a killer who was trying to hide something from everyone instead she was more like she was trying to find something instead.
Now let say if Victorica was right about the 2 mysteries. Then if you think how come the 2 killers are girl. How come the 2 killers come up with such interesting way to kill the 2 boys. What if all the small mysteries are connected. What if there is someone else(not Avril) behind it. As for Avril, what if she comes here with a purpose to find out something with a clue she has.


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
 
Feb 1, 2011 9:24 AM

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I was thinking something along the lines of the girl from eight years ago and Avril being relatives or something? The girl from eight years ago knew she was dying, so maybe she had an illness or something? Maybe Avril has something similar and wants a "strong and dependable knight" so accompany her to the afterlife?. Avril may think of him having that because of him being "the Black Reaper that comes in the spring", having a connection with "the Golden Fairy".

As for the crime however, I don't have the slightest clue if it's her or not (seems obvious but yet again too obvious). If no; why is she acting suspicious? Why did she cut her finger? On the other hand, if yes; Why'd she do it? Who was the girl being arrested then? There must be a connection between the two mysteries.

Pure speculation of course, but I thought I'd share it anyway.
Modified by Onyxthegreat, Feb 1, 2011 10:23 AM
 
Feb 1, 2011 10:25 AM

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Siva said:
@Yumekichi11: you should try to come up with more possibilities before you want to jump into one conclusion. And specially while Avril didn't act like a killer who was trying to hide something from everyone instead she was more like she was trying to find something instead.
I was trying to consider as much as I could think but then that's when you come in to spread some more, which is what a discussion is.
Siva said:
Now let say if Victorica was right about the 2 mysteries. Then if you think how come the 2 killers are girl.
I think they are because it could be that a male would take more brutal ways of killing his victim and the wire way is the fastest and less physically demanding to transport.
Siva said:
How come the 2 killers come up with such interesting way to kill the 2 boys.
Drugging and wire placing is easy tasks for women and it can be read in books to get rough idea of it.
Siva said:
What if all the small mysteries are connected.
I think they are but as of now there is not enough info in regards to that. I still fear that book being connected to Victorica.
Siva said:
What if there is someone else(not Avril) behind it.
Then I shall changing my thinking accordingly to the unfolding events. I really Sherlock Holmes so speculations for now is what makes it fun but facts are still out there such as the Milli case crackdown.
Siva said:
As for Avril, what if she comes here with a purpose to find out something with a clue she has.
Your suggestion does open the possibility that someone may be trying to stop both girls so that person did a crime to frame Avril for it but instead her friend took the blame in order for Avril to look for that important item. You opened another scenario but that remains to be seen.

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Feb 1, 2011 10:45 AM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Siva said:
How come the 2 killers come up with such interesting way to kill the 2 boys.
Drugging and wire placing is easy tasks for women and it can be read in books to get rough idea of it.

And fortunately there was a book at the scene,

As for now, I have no idea who is the killer is but from this one episode I think there is a mastermind behind all of this and that person should be in this school for a long time.


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
 
Feb 1, 2011 3:11 PM

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Ugh, the reasoning behind some of the culprits is too narrow, and I hate how Victorica can just suddenly get so many answers without any real investigation and only a little deduction. I prefer mysteries that lead up to the solution and build on suspects and evidence, not just a detective blowing on a pipe and suddenly knowing all the exact specifics.
 
Feb 1, 2011 5:09 PM

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Yumekichi11 said:
Siva said:
As for Avril, what if she comes here with a purpose to find out something with a clue she has.
Your suggestion does open the possibility that someone may be trying to stop both girls so that person did a crime to frame Avril for it but instead her friend took the blame in order for Avril to look for that important item. You opened another scenario but that remains to be seen.


i've been saying that for a while. i'll be firm on this say we know that the caught girl and avril have ties. from what we know and clue given i can say(at least from the people we know) that avril is most likely the culprit. her reaction was iffy and not enough to make a deduction on. however the caught girl was great evidence. i mean like yumekichi said, her friend could have took the blame. with a simple thing like a cut on her hand could be easily forged, and by surrendering herself avril would've been left off the hook.
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Feb 1, 2011 6:29 PM

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hellsascendant said:


i've been saying that for a while. i'll be firm on this say we know that the caught girl and avril have ties.

No we don't. We're merely guessing based on the fact they're both blonde and Avril has an injury.

hellsascendant said:
from what we know and clue given i can say(at least from the people we know) that avril is most likely the culprit. her reaction was iffy and not enough to make a deduction on.

Not a shred of hard evidence.
Let's suppose she is who she claims to be: a girl who likes adventure.
In that scenario, she might have hurt her hand while venturing into something she's not supposed to, and doesn't want to own-up.
Yes she is suspicious, but that doesn't make her the real culprit.
The impression I get is that the makers want to make us think that way, in order to put us on the wrong foot.
 
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