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Apr 18, 7:23 PM
#1
A crash-course in the history of the Japanese animation industry:
What caused such differences? Sure, when it comes to movies, the American industry is pretty much hegemonic, but what about all the rest? Why was there never a boom of direct-to-video animation with things you couldn't show on TV here? Why wasn't there an AKIRA or GitS equivalent in American cinemas prior (With equivalent success)? American late-night animation that wasn't just sitcoms? An American "Narou webnovel to TV animation" pipeline equivalent? |
Apr 18, 7:46 PM
#2
Apr 18, 7:50 PM
#3
There is and has been quite a bit more non-sitcom western cartoons aimed at older audiences than people seem to think, even long before the more recent Netflix stuff. But as for why it never really took off in a big way, I'm not sure. Some that I really like: Spawn 1997 animated series The Maxx Heavy Metal You've even got the western equivalent of ecchi shows with stuff like Spicy City or The Haunted World of El Superbeasto or Stripperella (that one sucks) |
Apr 18, 8:06 PM
#4
America used to be the standard back then. Several problems: - Disney: and no, not the "woke" thing. Disney is ironically the furthest thing from woke. The issue is that Disney is an animation company that hates animation. These live action remakes, aside from a few, are trash. It's like the animators don't understand why the cartoons were popular. Mufasa is especially insulting because it changes the backstory of Mufasa and Scar, and tries to justify Scar being evil. Scar is evil because he's a power hungry POS. That's it. The original Lion King was based on Hamlet, but the new writers retconned it. I love Beyonce and I truly wanted to support her and Blue Ivy. Though I'm not supporting that trash movie. SMH. Once again, the new Disney CEO and employees don't like animation, so they don't have respect for Disney's old works. - Adult animation: supposedly, this is getting better. Bojack Horseman, the new Samurai Jack, Rick and Morty, and South Park is still popular. Though the dark age of this stuff was ugly art, trying to be as gross and offensive as possible, etc. And even now, most animation aimed at adults has ugly art. - Defunding the arts: it's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Everyone got pushed into STEM. People said art was worthless. Now they complain about western animation being ugly, writing being bad, lack of creative ideas, etc. If you want good shows and movies, you gotta invest in liberal art majors. They're the ones who will draw the animation, they're the ones who will act (live action or voice acting animation), who will write the scripts, create plots, direct the work, etc. They're the ones who will write books, that the movies and cartoons are based on. If you want good work, invest in artists! - comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue. Some American cartoons are good. I liked Regular Show, Amazing World of Gumball, Adventure Time, ATLA/TLOK, Steven Universe, etc. I heard good things about Stars vs the Forces of Evil and Gravity Falls. With adult animation, once again I heard good things about: Rick and Morty, Bojack Horseman, and Samurai Jack. South Park still has a very dedicated (and annoying) fanbase, so it's doing something right. American Dad also has dedicated fans. |
Apr 18, 8:13 PM
#5
I think animation in America is heavily stigmatized as being for kids. An American animator named Ralph Bakshi tried to make adult animated films in the 70s and 80s. I wouldn't say they flopped, but it certainly didn't catch on. He was also being limited by the producers to tone down the content in his films because they were afraid kids would see it and parents would be angry. (Perhaps you can blame this on the evangelist Christians) So that definitely weakened the appeal of what he was trying to make. Later there was Peter Chung and his Aeon Flux, but it's experimental nature caused it to not gain mass appeal. Then throughout the 90s you start to see adult animation getting popular on TV. Shows like the Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, etc get quite popular but are only edgy sitcoms. And then the Adult Swim shows in the 00s like Space Ghost, Home Movies, Aqua Teen etc. which may be entertaining but generally have poor animation and are dismissed as dumb comedies by the critics. This continues on to this day from shows like Archer and Rick and Morty to Smiling Friends. So basically, the biggest market for animation here is for kids, and anything else made for adults is just not taken seriously as an art form. Besides Disney doesn't even make 2D animation anymore so when we talk about "American Animation" it's mostly 3DCG films, bean art cartoons, and the Adult Swim stuff. |
Apr 18, 8:14 PM
#6
Reply to Purple_Gh0st24
Disney did make some direct-to-video movies through the '90s to '00s, but they were all cheap cashgrabs. The reason America never had its own Akira or GitS largely comes down to cultural differences; America does not respect animation.
@Purple_Gh0st24 America likes animation. Disney animated movies appealed to adults. Avatar the Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra were popular for all ages. Steven Universe appealed to grown women. Regular Show appealed to grown men. A lot of adults like South Park, Rick and Morty, American Dad, etc. Black adults liked the Boondocks. And a lot of American adults watch anime. American consumers seem to like animation. The issue is that American companies don't respect it. Disney's current problem is that the CEO and employees that make the movies, don't like animation. Disney doesn't like animation. Why is that even a thing? Disney is the one that ushered in top tier animation. Their company is built on animation. So why tf do they hate it? They insist in live action remakes. When some of them have animation, they insist on 3D animation. 3D animation is okay in some cases, but we really need more quality 2D animated movies. |
Apr 18, 8:14 PM
#7
LuxuriousHeart said: - comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue. There's definitely a cultural difference. Comics are primarily seen as bland newspaper filler or pulpy superhero stuff in the USA, while there is significantly more variety and respect for the medium in places like Europe and Japan. |
Time...it will not wait...no matter...how hard you hold on...it escapes you... |
Apr 18, 8:18 PM
#9
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Purple_Gh0st24 America likes animation. Disney animated movies appealed to adults. Avatar the Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra were popular for all ages. Steven Universe appealed to grown women. Regular Show appealed to grown men. A lot of adults like South Park, Rick and Morty, American Dad, etc. Black adults liked the Boondocks. And a lot of American adults watch anime. American consumers seem to like animation.
The issue is that American companies don't respect it. Disney's current problem is that the CEO and employees that make the movies, don't like animation. Disney doesn't like animation. Why is that even a thing? Disney is the one that ushered in top tier animation. Their company is built on animation. So why tf do they hate it? They insist in live action remakes. When some of them have animation, they insist on 3D animation. 3D animation is okay in some cases, but we really need more quality 2D animated movies.
The issue is that American companies don't respect it. Disney's current problem is that the CEO and employees that make the movies, don't like animation. Disney doesn't like animation. Why is that even a thing? Disney is the one that ushered in top tier animation. Their company is built on animation. So why tf do they hate it? They insist in live action remakes. When some of them have animation, they insist on 3D animation. 3D animation is okay in some cases, but we really need more quality 2D animated movies.
@LuxuriousHeart For sure, American people like animation, but America does not. |
Apr 18, 8:19 PM
#10
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
LuxuriousHeart said:
- comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue.
- comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue.
There's definitely a cultural difference. Comics are primarily seen as bland newspaper filler or pulpy superhero stuff in the USA, while there is significantly more variety and respect for the medium in places like Europe and Japan.
@MelodyOfMemory I haven't read a Sunday Paper in a while, but I used to love the little comics. GrumbleDango said: So basically, the biggest market for animation here is for kids, and anything else made for adults is just not taken seriously as an art form. Besides Disney doesn't even make 2D animation anymore so when we talk about "American Animation" it's mostly 3DCG films, bean art cartoons, and the Adult Swim stuff. Yeah... that's a big problem. Defunding the arts wasn't a good thing. A lot of adult animation is ugly, and animated shows for kids have very simplistic and similar art styles. |
Apr 18, 8:26 PM
#11
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
America used to be the standard back then. Several problems:
- Disney: and no, not the "woke" thing. Disney is ironically the furthest thing from woke. The issue is that Disney is an animation company that hates animation. These live action remakes, aside from a few, are trash. It's like the animators don't understand why the cartoons were popular. Mufasa is especially insulting because it changes the backstory of Mufasa and Scar, and tries to justify Scar being evil. Scar is evil because he's a power hungry POS. That's it. The original Lion King was based on Hamlet, but the new writers retconned it. I love Beyonce and I truly wanted to support her and Blue Ivy. Though I'm not supporting that trash movie. SMH. Once again, the new Disney CEO and employees don't like animation, so they don't have respect for Disney's old works.
- Adult animation: supposedly, this is getting better. Bojack Horseman, the new Samurai Jack, Rick and Morty, and South Park is still popular. Though the dark age of this stuff was ugly art, trying to be as gross and offensive as possible, etc. And even now, most animation aimed at adults has ugly art.
- Defunding the arts: it's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Everyone got pushed into STEM. People said art was worthless. Now they complain about western animation being ugly, writing being bad, lack of creative ideas, etc. If you want good shows and movies, you gotta invest in liberal art majors. They're the ones who will draw the animation, they're the ones who will act (live action or voice acting animation), who will write the scripts, create plots, direct the work, etc. They're the ones who will write books, that the movies and cartoons are based on. If you want good work, invest in artists!
- comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue.
Some American cartoons are good. I liked Regular Show, Amazing World of Gumball, Adventure Time, ATLA/TLOK, Steven Universe, etc. I heard good things about Stars vs the Forces of Evil and Gravity Falls. With adult animation, once again I heard good things about: Rick and Morty, Bojack Horseman, and Samurai Jack. South Park still has a very dedicated (and annoying) fanbase, so it's doing something right. American Dad also has dedicated fans.
- Disney: and no, not the "woke" thing. Disney is ironically the furthest thing from woke. The issue is that Disney is an animation company that hates animation. These live action remakes, aside from a few, are trash. It's like the animators don't understand why the cartoons were popular. Mufasa is especially insulting because it changes the backstory of Mufasa and Scar, and tries to justify Scar being evil. Scar is evil because he's a power hungry POS. That's it. The original Lion King was based on Hamlet, but the new writers retconned it. I love Beyonce and I truly wanted to support her and Blue Ivy. Though I'm not supporting that trash movie. SMH. Once again, the new Disney CEO and employees don't like animation, so they don't have respect for Disney's old works.
- Adult animation: supposedly, this is getting better. Bojack Horseman, the new Samurai Jack, Rick and Morty, and South Park is still popular. Though the dark age of this stuff was ugly art, trying to be as gross and offensive as possible, etc. And even now, most animation aimed at adults has ugly art.
- Defunding the arts: it's the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Everyone got pushed into STEM. People said art was worthless. Now they complain about western animation being ugly, writing being bad, lack of creative ideas, etc. If you want good shows and movies, you gotta invest in liberal art majors. They're the ones who will draw the animation, they're the ones who will act (live action or voice acting animation), who will write the scripts, create plots, direct the work, etc. They're the ones who will write books, that the movies and cartoons are based on. If you want good work, invest in artists!
- comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue.
Some American cartoons are good. I liked Regular Show, Amazing World of Gumball, Adventure Time, ATLA/TLOK, Steven Universe, etc. I heard good things about Stars vs the Forces of Evil and Gravity Falls. With adult animation, once again I heard good things about: Rick and Morty, Bojack Horseman, and Samurai Jack. South Park still has a very dedicated (and annoying) fanbase, so it's doing something right. American Dad also has dedicated fans.
LuxuriousHeart said: - comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue. As someone who reads Western comics, the issue here is WHERE they market as they only ever seem to market to their existent readerbase instead of advertising on TV and movies. Its absurd that companies like Marvel don't advertise their comics before the movies in the cinema and have essentially let what is the root of their business just kind of be off there to the side and treated as an afterthought while the movies do their own thing. Editorial is also an issue where they wont let major changes happen to their stories even if its to the detriment of the narrative like what is happening in mainline Amazing Spider-Man right now with how they are just destroying MJ's character and her relationship with Peter with the Paul cuck arc that nobody likes. Forward progression has essentially been gutted from most long running super hero comics |
This post is brought to you by your local transfem gamer goblin. Will not tolerate bigotry and will fight against "anti-woke" sentiment to make the anime community a safer place. |
Apr 18, 8:31 PM
#12
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
@Purple_Gh0st24 America likes animation. Disney animated movies appealed to adults. Avatar the Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra were popular for all ages. Steven Universe appealed to grown women. Regular Show appealed to grown men. A lot of adults like South Park, Rick and Morty, American Dad, etc. Black adults liked the Boondocks. And a lot of American adults watch anime. American consumers seem to like animation.
The issue is that American companies don't respect it. Disney's current problem is that the CEO and employees that make the movies, don't like animation. Disney doesn't like animation. Why is that even a thing? Disney is the one that ushered in top tier animation. Their company is built on animation. So why tf do they hate it? They insist in live action remakes. When some of them have animation, they insist on 3D animation. 3D animation is okay in some cases, but we really need more quality 2D animated movies.
The issue is that American companies don't respect it. Disney's current problem is that the CEO and employees that make the movies, don't like animation. Disney doesn't like animation. Why is that even a thing? Disney is the one that ushered in top tier animation. Their company is built on animation. So why tf do they hate it? They insist in live action remakes. When some of them have animation, they insist on 3D animation. 3D animation is okay in some cases, but we really need more quality 2D animated movies.
LuxuriousHeart said: So why tf do they hate it? They insist in live action remakes. When some of them have animation, they insist on 3D animation. Because "The Lion King" live-action sold more than any animation Disney has ever done (Except if you adjust Snow White for inflation). ...also because the average Joe LOVES kitsch, same reason people beg for games to be remade in Unreal Engine 5 despite the fact that they artistically look like shit that way. America has a "caste society" view towards animation: If one accumulates enough karma, they'll be able to be reborn as one of the "higher castes"... as a live-action. Regarding 3D in specific, if the last decade of economics didn't make that clear enough: Investors are actually incredibly stupid. 2D-animated movies had a series of flops in the early-2000's, meanwhile 3D animation had a ton of successes. Therefore investors were pavlov'd into "2D BAD 3D GOOD". Also the fact that when Disney decided to try a 2D animated movie again, they decided to release in it in the same week as fucking AVATAR. Moana was supposed to be 2D, but the investors said no, and if the investors say no... |
Apr 18, 8:34 PM
#13
Reply to LSSJ_Chloe
LuxuriousHeart said:
- comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue.
- comics: I would give advice for this, but I don't read comics, so I actually don't know what the issue is, as far as content. The immediate issue is that I don't know what the comics are even about. Which is sad. They need better marketing, advertising. That's the immediate issue.
As someone who reads Western comics, the issue here is WHERE they market as they only ever seem to market to their existent readerbase instead of advertising on TV and movies. Its absurd that companies like Marvel don't advertise their comics before the movies in the cinema and have essentially let what is the root of their business just kind of be off there to the side and treated as an afterthought while the movies do their own thing. Editorial is also an issue where they wont let major changes happen to their stories even if its to the detriment of the narrative like what is happening in mainline Amazing Spider-Man right now with how they are just destroying MJ's character and her relationship with Peter with the Paul cuck arc that nobody likes. Forward progression has essentially been gutted from most long running super hero comics
LSSJ_Gaming said: Editorial is also an issue where they wont let major changes happen to their stories even if its to the detriment of the narrative like what is happening in mainline Amazing Spider-Man right now with how they are just destroying MJ's character and her relationship with Peter with the Paul cuck arc that nobody likes. Forward progression has essentially been gutted from most long running super hero comics Ugh, Paul... You'd think Marvel would get the message from how the current Ultimate Spider-Man is selling better than the main Amazing Spider-Man, but apparently not. |
Apr 18, 8:44 PM
#14
I believe that because the American animation industry is older, it was able to firmly establish itself without the competition the Japanese industry later faced. |
その目だれの目? |
Apr 18, 8:54 PM
#15
you do see more experimental stuff in the 70s and 80s with ralph bakshi, richard williams (thief and cobbler), don bluth, and among indie films. american animation was generally pretty stagnant back then too bc hanna-barbera and filmation flooded the airwaves with super cheap shows for every season for saturday mornings. parent groups also heavily regulated cartoons too, but some exceptions like wait till your father gets home (basically proto-family guy lol) existed on tv. canadian and european stuff like rock and rule, heavy metal, son of the white mare, fantastic planet, etc took risks while disney almost closed down in the 80s. as others have mentioned stuff like spawn, spicy city, primal, midnight gospel, and aeon flux are some examples of adult shows that aren't sitcoms. it's far easier for studios to pump out animated sitcoms to find the next simpsons, family guy, or south park. tho, animated sitcoms have been a thing since the late 1950s. |
Apr 18, 9:02 PM
#16
My guess is that Disney was so fundamentally involved in the animation landscape that it created a culture where animation was a medium for children. You cannot undo this cultural standard that was established for close to a century. They created animation, and dictated the majority of animated works in the West for over a century. In a way, anime makes it harder because why create a western series with action if Japanese studios and artists can do it better? So there is no market for Western artists to flex their action choreography because there is not nearly as big a market for it In our highly connected society, it may make more sense to outsource it to Japan and Korea, and now perhaps China as well. Another important aspect is how differently we treat voice actors. VAs in Japan are so much closer to our Hollywood celebrities than people like Eric Bauza. VAs do not get respect, and being a VA is not seen as a respectable position compared to traditional actors. |
removed-userApr 18, 9:06 PM
Apr 18, 9:02 PM
#17
The west like America is heavily trenched in dei hiring endorced by gov and investors like blackrock. This pretty much creates a corporate culture where stuff like cute girls and teens are heavily taboo. Homosexual and gender ambiguity are endorced. This is why most western media focuses on women. The rare exceptions are kids cartoons which are mostly made for a young audience (not teens). Japan is very homogeneous, and they are far less divided. This means dei makes no sense to many corpos like how DQ creator did not understand type AB nonsense. Some dei in japan is often implemented by 3rd party companies like sweet baby. All the sexual stuff in anime is not possible in western media besides for women. |
Apr 18, 9:08 PM
#18
PeripheralVision said: My guess is that Disney was so fundamentally involved in the animation landscape that it created a culture where animation was a medium for children. And they did it by dumbing down the stories were adapting. The original versions of Peter Pan, The Little Mermaid, among others, were tragedies, but the Disney versions sanitized them into American nuclear family values fare (not even talking about what they did to Hercules; Greece called it "Beyond the Myth of Heracles" for a reason). There are a lot of parallels between Disneyfication and early American dubbing practices. |
Time...it will not wait...no matter...how hard you hold on...it escapes you... |
Apr 18, 9:13 PM
#19
Reply to GrumbleDango
I think animation in America is heavily stigmatized as being for kids.
An American animator named Ralph Bakshi tried to make adult animated films in the 70s and 80s. I wouldn't say they flopped, but it certainly didn't catch on. He was also being limited by the producers to tone down the content in his films because they were afraid kids would see it and parents would be angry. (Perhaps you can blame this on the evangelist Christians) So that definitely weakened the appeal of what he was trying to make.
Later there was Peter Chung and his Aeon Flux, but it's experimental nature caused it to not gain mass appeal.
Then throughout the 90s you start to see adult animation getting popular on TV. Shows like the Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, etc get quite popular but are only edgy sitcoms. And then the Adult Swim shows in the 00s like Space Ghost, Home Movies, Aqua Teen etc. which may be entertaining but generally have poor animation and are dismissed as dumb comedies by the critics. This continues on to this day from shows like Archer and Rick and Morty to Smiling Friends.
So basically, the biggest market for animation here is for kids, and anything else made for adults is just not taken seriously as an art form. Besides Disney doesn't even make 2D animation anymore so when we talk about "American Animation" it's mostly 3DCG films, bean art cartoons, and the Adult Swim stuff.
An American animator named Ralph Bakshi tried to make adult animated films in the 70s and 80s. I wouldn't say they flopped, but it certainly didn't catch on. He was also being limited by the producers to tone down the content in his films because they were afraid kids would see it and parents would be angry. (Perhaps you can blame this on the evangelist Christians) So that definitely weakened the appeal of what he was trying to make.
Later there was Peter Chung and his Aeon Flux, but it's experimental nature caused it to not gain mass appeal.
Then throughout the 90s you start to see adult animation getting popular on TV. Shows like the Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, etc get quite popular but are only edgy sitcoms. And then the Adult Swim shows in the 00s like Space Ghost, Home Movies, Aqua Teen etc. which may be entertaining but generally have poor animation and are dismissed as dumb comedies by the critics. This continues on to this day from shows like Archer and Rick and Morty to Smiling Friends.
So basically, the biggest market for animation here is for kids, and anything else made for adults is just not taken seriously as an art form. Besides Disney doesn't even make 2D animation anymore so when we talk about "American Animation" it's mostly 3DCG films, bean art cartoons, and the Adult Swim stuff.
GrumbleDango said: An American animator named Ralph Bakshi tried to make adult animated films in the 70s and 80s. I wouldn't say they flopped, but it certainly didn't catch on. He was also being limited by the producers to tone down the content in his films because they were afraid kids would see it and parents would be angry. I was recently reminded that this guy existed and made movies for many years, like the animated Lord of the Rings movie. I don't know the history very well, but it's definitely strange how his style didn't really last in the US. Is it really because they were too low-brow and "not for kids"? Walt Disney's entire career was about transforming silly cartoons into a respectable art-form that people of all ages can enjoy. Why was it so difficult for the industry to make the jump to adult-oriented animation? The 70s and the 80s didn't lack for controversial and exploitative live-action movies, it's weird that animated ones didn't catch on. Like you say, the Simpsons managed to get made and become a part of American culture. Was Bakshi simply born too early? |
Apr 18, 9:15 PM
#20
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
PeripheralVision said:
My guess is that Disney was so fundamentally involved in the animation landscape that it created a culture where animation was a medium for children.
My guess is that Disney was so fundamentally involved in the animation landscape that it created a culture where animation was a medium for children.
And they did it by dumbing down the stories were adapting. The original versions of Peter Pan, The Little Mermaid, among others, were tragedies, but the Disney versions sanitized them into American nuclear family values fare (not even talking about what they did to Hercules; Greece called it "Beyond the Myth of Heracles" for a reason). There are a lot of parallels between Disneyfication and early American dubbing practices.
MelodyOfMemory said: here are a lot of parallels between Disneyfication and early American dubbing practices. I am a fan of Disney's Hercules despite the Hades slander, but now that I think about it...this is such an astute observation, and I am having a great realization. This makes so much sense. |
Apr 18, 9:16 PM
#21
Reply to removed-user
My guess is that Disney was so fundamentally involved in the animation landscape that it created a culture where animation was a medium for children. You cannot undo this cultural standard that was established for close to a century. They created animation, and dictated the majority of animated works in the West for over a century.
In a way, anime makes it harder because why create a western series with action if Japanese studios and artists can do it better? So there is no market for Western artists to flex their action choreography because there is not nearly as big a market for it In our highly connected society, it may make more sense to outsource it to Japan and Korea, and now perhaps China as well.
Another important aspect is how differently we treat voice actors. VAs in Japan are so much closer to our Hollywood celebrities than people like Eric Bauza. VAs do not get respect, and being a VA is not seen as a respectable position compared to traditional actors.
In a way, anime makes it harder because why create a western series with action if Japanese studios and artists can do it better? So there is no market for Western artists to flex their action choreography because there is not nearly as big a market for it In our highly connected society, it may make more sense to outsource it to Japan and Korea, and now perhaps China as well.
Another important aspect is how differently we treat voice actors. VAs in Japan are so much closer to our Hollywood celebrities than people like Eric Bauza. VAs do not get respect, and being a VA is not seen as a respectable position compared to traditional actors.
PeripheralVision said: My guess is that Disney was so fundamentally involved in the animation landscape that it created a culture where animation was a medium for children. To be fair, Disney's attempts to deviate from that ended in commercial failure. Fantasia cost so much to make that it took decades to turn a profit. The Black Cauldron was rated PG instead of the usual G and it nearly killed the company. Eventually they made a 2nd Fantasia movie and it flopped again. |
その目だれの目? |
Apr 18, 9:30 PM
#22
American animation industry has been held back by their anti union methods might be one factor. Also American animation uses a higher frame rate so that influences the art style and animation methods but I am not sure why that lead them to lean more to CGI over copying the Japanese production techniques. Actually it just came to me what if it was because of cartoon channels like Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network and Disney channel? Cartoon Network didn't always have Adult Swim. I get the impression these channels helped push a notion of cartoons being for kids in the sense that anyone not intentionally seeking out cartoons would not see them like they would have in the past. Also this may be result of some parent groups that were out against advertising that used cartoon characters. For example The Flinstones was basically a sitcom actually geared more for adults rather than kids which is why you would see ads in the past like this But these kind of animation styles were well liked by kids so there must have been a push to the perception cartoons are for kids due to concerns over their influence on kids. |
⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣸⠋⠀⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⡔⠀⢀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⡘⡰⠁⠘⡀⠀⠀⢠⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠁⠀⣀⠀⠀⡇⠀⡜⠈⠁⠀⢸⡈⢇⠀⠀⢣⠑⠢⢄⣇⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢰⡟⡀⠀⡇⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⡇⠈⢆⢰⠁⠀⠀⠀⠘⣆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠸⠀⠀⡄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡼⠀⣧⠀⢿⢠⣤⣤⣬⣥⠀⠁⠀⠀⠛⢀⡒⠀⠀⠀⠘⡆⡆⠀⠀⠀⡇⠀⠀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⢵⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡰⠀⢠⠃⠱⣼⡀⣀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⠳⠶⠶⠆⡸⢀⡀⣀⢰⠀⠀⢸ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣀⣀⣀⠄⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⢠⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⣼⠋⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠴⠢⢄⡔⣕⡍⠣⣱⢸⠀⠀⢷⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⡰⠃⢀⠎⠀⠀⡜⡨⢢⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⣄⠀⠀⣠⠀⠀⠀⠐⢛⠽⠗⠁⠀⠁⠊⠀⡜⠸⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⢀⠔⣁⡴⠃⠀⡠⡪⠊⣠⣾⣟⣷⡦⠤⣀⡈⠁⠉⢀⣀⡠⢔⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⡤⡗⢀⠇⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⢀⣠⠴⢑⡨⠊⡀⠤⠚⢉⣴⣾⣿⡿⣾⣿⡇⠀⠹⣻⠛⠉⠉⢀⠠⠺⠀⠀⡀⢄⣴⣾⣧⣞⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠐⠒⣉⠠⠄⡂⠅⠊⠁⠀⠀⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿⣻⣿⣿⡇⠀⠀⢠⣷⣮⡍⡠⠔⢉⡇⡠⠋⠁⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ |
Apr 18, 11:26 PM
#23
Reply to rohan121
The west like America is heavily trenched in dei hiring endorced by gov and investors like blackrock. This pretty much creates a corporate culture where stuff like cute girls and teens are heavily taboo. Homosexual and gender ambiguity are endorced. This is why most western media focuses on women. The rare exceptions are kids cartoons which are mostly made for a young audience (not teens). Japan is very homogeneous, and they are far less divided. This means dei makes no sense to many corpos like how DQ creator did not understand type AB nonsense. Some dei in japan is often implemented by 3rd party companies like sweet baby. All the sexual stuff in anime is not possible in western media besides for women.
@rohan121 this is a delusional lie btw |
Apr 19, 2:14 AM
#24
Why isn't the American animation industry like the Japanese one? Probably because America isn't like Japan. |
DesuMaiden said: Nobody resembles me physically because I don't even physically exist. |
Apr 19, 4:58 AM
#25
i don't know American animation is just s good they have came out with some absolutely bangers lately. |
Apr 19, 5:08 AM
#26
Because it wouldn't be any fun, and it's cool to have countless different ways of producing animation. I don't want them all to be the same. |
Apr 19, 5:23 AM
#27
I think Japanese animation is superior to Western animation. That much is obvious. |
Here is my Pixiv account of my hentai drawings..... https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/104739065 Here is my blog.... https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/?m=1 |
Apr 19, 6:18 AM
#28
It wasn't for wokeism starting in the early 2010s, American animation will be still popular today. We all know one of the main reasons of why Anime went mainstream and Western Animation declined in popularity in the 2010s. People don't want politics especially invasive in their entertainment, they just want want to watch a good series. The only ones to blame are themselves for destroying their own animation. Like for example, men are understandable angry the West desexualized women characters and instead they were replaced by men characters with a wig. Once you remove a powerful element like sex appeal, you are doomed to failure. |
ToumaTachibanaApr 19, 6:27 AM
BANZAI NIPPON. Nippon is the Land of freedom. Nippon is the Land of Peace. Nippon is the Land of Justice and Prosperity. In Nippon, we trust. We love Nippon, we love Anime. Anime love us, Nippon love us. 日本 |
Apr 19, 6:38 AM
#29
Most American animation that aren't sitcoms tend to be super hero/comic book stuff. That stuff is huge in America for some reason. Personally I don't care about it, but many do. Although as a kid, there was plenty more different ones, like Disney movies had their own cartoon things. I think one's today are more 3D and for little kids. |
Apr 19, 7:07 AM
#30
thewiru said: Why wasn't there an AKIRA or GitS equivalent in American cinemas prior (With equivalent success)? Hollywood and most of the industry doesn't see animation as an art style. There is even a stigma in normies that anything animated is for children and they simply wont watch it until it get a live-action adaptation. They would rather create slop like Big Mouth and Family Guy rather than stick out their neck to make something that has inspiration and passion. |
Apr 19, 9:20 AM
#31
I was going to make a thread similar in this vein in how I'm rather upset at how there are little to any grassroots attempts of people trying to make their own anime and manga stuff, let alone comics. Animation wise, there is plenty going on there in the grassroots communities, but everyone has hit most of the nails on the head. Another aspect is that cartoons in the USA have basis in political and social commentary, and they don't want people using that to rock the boat with the American Exceptionalism mentality or against it to keep the vanity in check. Animation doesn't require actors or work crews of warm bodies, as it requires all skill and creativity, as well as artistic media and exponentially less man power. I'm still disappointed in how post high school that none of my anime fan friends and clubs have truly went on to try and embrace their passions, but as an adult now, I can see why, even if it still doesn't ever make for a good excuse. Sadly, we also have clinger ons and leeches who just "consuum" and act out of that self pity and self doubting loathing dysphoria trying to direct what Japan makes in complete ethnocentric obsession than to stand on their own and dare to express themselves, and well, live. |
Apr 19, 9:34 AM
#32
Reply to chronofantasy
Most American animation that aren't sitcoms tend to be super hero/comic book stuff. That stuff is huge in America for some reason. Personally I don't care about it, but many do. Although as a kid, there was plenty more different ones, like Disney movies had their own cartoon things. I think one's today are more 3D and for little kids.
chronofantasy said: Most American animation that aren't sitcoms tend to be super hero/comic book stuff. That stuff is huge in America for some reason. That's because of 1950s Macarthyism and religious fundamentalist low hanging fruit attacks at youth and teens becoming more rebellious before the 1960s hit. There's nothing inherently wrong with superheroes. The problem was that the US comics industry was severely handicapped by several factors: 1. The Comics Codes, which were started by the comic companies in order to try and appease public outrage before they would get government interference in. This deliberately made comics "safer for kids" and destroyed nearly every other genre that existed that had more mature and darker topics. 2. FBI crackdowns on East Coast mafia owned printing press companies, who abused the anti-comics mistrust by claiming "the mafia is coming for your kids" in order to get more backing by the Supreme Court than to be honest about the situation. 3. The malaise and disillusionment of the American Dream into the 1970s and the corporatization of the comics industry. This was one of the major reasons why really stupid and blind money hungry practices were implemented. 4. The resultant characterization and expectation that superheroes were not their own character, but extensions of the powers of the state, and especially the United States, becoming a propaganda tool. There's a reason why Superman is called the "Big Blue Boy Scout". So by the 1980s and 1990s, there was a huge whiplash by the alternative media boom against comics, which is how the United States managed to get into the anime world so late. |
Apr 19, 12:30 PM
#33
HokutoMumyoZan said: I'm still disappointed in how post high school that none of my anime fan friends and clubs have truly went on to try and embrace their passions, but as an adult now, I can see why, even if it still doesn't ever make for a good excuse. A few factors play into this. 1. Animation, like any visual medium, is highly multidisciplinary and labour intensive, something your post greatly underestimates. There's a reason fan works are usually limited to still art. While they are talented fan animators out there, they are usually short and done cheaply, and they still need musicians and VAs. A typical person does not have the time and money to compete with big studios. 2. The vast majority of anime is YA fare, and many people grow out of that at some point. Specifically being an anime themed artist can be limiting not just in audience reach, but also what topics one covers in their work. So a lot of people may take inspiration from anime, but not specifically define themselves as such to avoid pigenholing. 3. Too many anime fans watch anime and nothing else, which again compounds the audience reach issue if an artist wants to move on to different things eventually. |
Time...it will not wait...no matter...how hard you hold on...it escapes you... |
Apr 19, 12:44 PM
#34
Japanese animation is usually superior to Western animation IMO. |
Here is my Pixiv account of my hentai drawings..... https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/104739065 Here is my blog.... https://theendofindustrialcivilization.blogspot.com/?m=1 |
Apr 19, 12:59 PM
#35
HokutoMumyoZan said: That's because of 1950s Macarthyism and religious fundamentalist low hanging fruit attacks at youth and teens becoming more rebellious before the 1960s hit. There's nothing inherently wrong with superheroes. The problem was that the US comics industry was severely handicapped by several factors: 1. The Comics Codes, which were started by the comic companies in order to try and appease public outrage before they would get government interference in. This deliberately made comics "safer for kids" and destroyed nearly every other genre that existed that had more mature and darker topics. The question is: why didn't comics rebrand themselves, or market themselves? |
Apr 19, 1:02 PM
#36
Because they outsource their tv shows to Canada and Korea |
HACKs! 🤢🤮 |
Apr 19, 1:03 PM
#37
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
HokutoMumyoZan said:
I'm still disappointed in how post high school that none of my anime fan friends and clubs have truly went on to try and embrace their passions, but as an adult now, I can see why, even if it still doesn't ever make for a good excuse.
I'm still disappointed in how post high school that none of my anime fan friends and clubs have truly went on to try and embrace their passions, but as an adult now, I can see why, even if it still doesn't ever make for a good excuse.
A few factors play into this.
1. Animation, like any visual medium, is highly multidisciplinary and labour intensive, something your post greatly underestimates. There's a reason fan works are usually limited to still art. While they are talented fan animators out there, they are usually short and done cheaply, and they still need musicians and VAs. A typical person does not have the time and money to compete with big studios.
2. The vast majority of anime is YA fare, and many people grow out of that at some point. Specifically being an anime themed artist can be limiting not just in audience reach, but also what topics one covers in their work. So a lot of people may take inspiration from anime, but not specifically define themselves as such to avoid pigenholing.
3. Too many anime fans watch anime and nothing else, which again compounds the audience reach issue if an artist wants to move on to different things eventually.
@MelodyOfMemory You are right in that animation takes a lot of manpower by labor and to develop talent into a ready use, but that's still lower of a budget compared to most budgets of television shows and movies. Not to derail but comics, even as intensive as they can be, are an even lower bar of entry. You are right in that a lot of what fans out here are screened is YA fare, despite them also having topics that would ramp up their ratings to an easy 18+ or even subject to banned release elsewhere. You are right in that it also takes going outside of one's comfort zones as an anime fan to really grow as a person and in what one wishes to succeed in. Akira Toriyama, for example, watched movies more than he ever caught his contemporaries works. The view that anime is but YA work and is shoehorned really tells however of the mentality and deeply ingrained if not almost subconscious aspect of associating anything animated or drawn as childish in the American perspective. That's quite an obstacle, but that's also motivation for someone who thinks that is a prejudiced and rather smallminded idea and would rather smash that to bits than to ever accept that. There are plenty who work in the animation industry who believe in this motivation, and I don't doubt there will be more. I do believe there will be something that really digs into the roots of this and will rip it out in defiance, one day. Back to the topic at hand, it will take someone who sees anime not as a way to get famous or known or rich, but something worth its merits simply because of its existence and what it brought to the world will be honored properly, now that I realize this. |
Apr 19, 1:08 PM
#38
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
HokutoMumyoZan said:
That's because of 1950s Macarthyism and religious fundamentalist low hanging fruit attacks at youth and teens becoming more rebellious before the 1960s hit. There's nothing inherently wrong with superheroes. The problem was that the US comics industry was severely handicapped by several factors:
1. The Comics Codes, which were started by the comic companies in order to try and appease public outrage before they would get government interference in. This deliberately made comics "safer for kids" and destroyed nearly every other genre that existed that had more mature and darker topics.
That's because of 1950s Macarthyism and religious fundamentalist low hanging fruit attacks at youth and teens becoming more rebellious before the 1960s hit. There's nothing inherently wrong with superheroes. The problem was that the US comics industry was severely handicapped by several factors:
1. The Comics Codes, which were started by the comic companies in order to try and appease public outrage before they would get government interference in. This deliberately made comics "safer for kids" and destroyed nearly every other genre that existed that had more mature and darker topics.
The question is: why didn't comics rebrand themselves, or market themselves?
@LuxuriousHeart They never really thought to, especially in a world post WWII, where everyone thought they were living in an ideal perfect society where nothing bad could happen. Despite enforced racial segregation, underhanded supported racial discrimination and oppression, and not challenging more unruly aspects of the status quo. No joke, the 1950s were like that. |
Apr 19, 1:45 PM
#39
1. Corporate greed (The most important one) 2. Different audiences 3. People have been led to believe that cartoons are mostly for kids, And most adult shows are mostly the same thing, trying to be as offensive as possible while also having a bad artstyle and appealing to a more casual and general audience. It's not because of DEI or people not sexualising women enough like some other people in this topic are trying to say. |
Apr 19, 1:58 PM
#40
Reply to LuxuriousHeart
HokutoMumyoZan said:
That's because of 1950s Macarthyism and religious fundamentalist low hanging fruit attacks at youth and teens becoming more rebellious before the 1960s hit. There's nothing inherently wrong with superheroes. The problem was that the US comics industry was severely handicapped by several factors:
1. The Comics Codes, which were started by the comic companies in order to try and appease public outrage before they would get government interference in. This deliberately made comics "safer for kids" and destroyed nearly every other genre that existed that had more mature and darker topics.
That's because of 1950s Macarthyism and religious fundamentalist low hanging fruit attacks at youth and teens becoming more rebellious before the 1960s hit. There's nothing inherently wrong with superheroes. The problem was that the US comics industry was severely handicapped by several factors:
1. The Comics Codes, which were started by the comic companies in order to try and appease public outrage before they would get government interference in. This deliberately made comics "safer for kids" and destroyed nearly every other genre that existed that had more mature and darker topics.
The question is: why didn't comics rebrand themselves, or market themselves?
@LuxuriousHeart They did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_novel Also, it's worth pointing out that similar on how a large part of the 1995 senate hearing regarding video-games was Nintendo trying to screw it's competition, so was the creation of the CCA. Shit on the level of the words "Terror" and "Horror" being banned because they were the flagship titles of the competing company. |
Apr 19, 2:02 PM
#41
Reply to thewiru
@LuxuriousHeart
They did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_novel
Also, it's worth pointing out that similar on how a large part of the 1995 senate hearing regarding video-games was Nintendo trying to screw it's competition, so was the creation of the CCA.
Shit on the level of the words "Terror" and "Horror" being banned because they were the flagship titles of the competing company.
They did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_novel
Also, it's worth pointing out that similar on how a large part of the 1995 senate hearing regarding video-games was Nintendo trying to screw it's competition, so was the creation of the CCA.
Shit on the level of the words "Terror" and "Horror" being banned because they were the flagship titles of the competing company.
@thewiru oh right, the "it's not comic books it's graphic novels" thing. Thanks for the history lesson. |
Apr 19, 3:27 PM
#43
Apr 19, 4:36 PM
#44
I love how U.S. cultural politics permanently broke some people's brain so now we have to collectively suffer through their bouts of hysteria and delusion in every thread.. rohan121 said: The west like America is heavily trenched in dei hiring endorced by gov and investors like blackrock. This pretty much creates a corporate culture where stuff like cute girls and teens are heavily taboo. Homosexual and gender ambiguity are endorced. This is why most western media focuses on women. The rare exceptions are kids cartoons which are mostly made for a young audience (not teens). Japan is very homogeneous, and they are far less divided. This means dei makes no sense to many corpos like how DQ creator did not understand type AB nonsense. Some dei in japan is often implemented by 3rd party companies like sweet baby. All the sexual stuff in anime is not possible in western media besides for women. Nurguburu said: It wasn't for wokeism starting in the early 2010s, American animation will be still popular today. We all know one of the main reasons of why Anime went mainstream and Western Animation declined in popularity in the 2010s. People don't want politics especially invasive in their entertainment, they just want want to watch a good series. The only ones to blame are themselves for destroying their own animation. Like for example, men are understandable angry the West desexualized women characters and instead they were replaced by men characters with a wig. Once you remove a powerful element like sex appeal, you are doomed to failure. |
Apr 19, 6:41 PM
#45
Reply to thewiru
@Flick_on
All right, what were the material conditions that led to such difference?
All right, what were the material conditions that led to such difference?
@thewiru I mean it's obvious Different country, environment, circumstances, conditions (America isn't Japan) a lot of the reasons have already been brought up in the thread and there are million more I'll just summarized it and mix something in *way bigger economic base and bigger soft power (also affected japanese industry) *bigger market *is an older industry, by the time TV Anime got codified, it was already monopolized *cultural proclivities and codes (like religious/conservative forces, cuntercultural forces didn't reach the mainstream/didn't delevop a "counter"-economy (i would say because of isolation) *Animation stigmatized and sanitized for Kids (It's not like adult animation has proven to be conducive to mass culture or even repected) *most anime is YA coded *limited avenues for the direct-to-video market, for fandom expession (the relationship to the audience didn't yield value or a feedback loop) *music video industry is not on high demand these days *no philosopohy for media-mix culture and development doesn't function that well (marvel) that'why this narou webnovel to TV anime doesn't exist or is really limited, some exclusive stuff for their streaming service (I mean 60 projects being released every three months, when most of them who are not just structually finished but physically unfinished, isn't that desirable either) *not enough content-generation, relating to the media-mix point, because of monopolies *general audience of anime is domestically homogenized opposed to the US *Storyboard-centric to simplify pipelines opposed to key animation-centric *they outsource most of their stuff to canada *the "success" of adult animation is ultimately tied to the digital age(the internet) |
Apr 19, 6:49 PM
#46
U.S. Culture poltics is not just limited to the US and never will be |
Apr 19, 6:56 PM
#47
I think you've got your point answered lol. It's mostly market law and cultural. Anime 3D dominates (new Disney, old Pixar, Nickelodeon) vs Anime 2D. Anime is family friendly but primarily for children / Anime is for everyone Japan has always had this habit of keeping close to old tech stuff. There are still last century machines in use and widely produced over there, they are grand-masters of tech and domestic products. It gives the country stability and a cross-generation knowledge wealth you hardly find anywhere else. For having practiced, manga and anime style drawing are like an extension of kanji, and its popularization through doujin and Comiket like an evolution of the elitist traditional calligraphy. (Taking wild shortcuts there, but I hope you get the point) |
There is only one truth in this world かわいいは正義 Also, robots are your friends ✿❀(*ᴗ͈ˬᴗ͈)ꕤ*.゚⋆˚✿˖° Check our anime affinity, Senpai! Fellow cute girl lovers FR accepted. Watch NGNL, ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ you bastard~~desu Yuri is life. Now, break a sweat. ★May the stars shine upon you.★ |
Apr 19, 7:47 PM
#48
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
HokutoMumyoZan said:
I'm still disappointed in how post high school that none of my anime fan friends and clubs have truly went on to try and embrace their passions, but as an adult now, I can see why, even if it still doesn't ever make for a good excuse.
I'm still disappointed in how post high school that none of my anime fan friends and clubs have truly went on to try and embrace their passions, but as an adult now, I can see why, even if it still doesn't ever make for a good excuse.
A few factors play into this.
1. Animation, like any visual medium, is highly multidisciplinary and labour intensive, something your post greatly underestimates. There's a reason fan works are usually limited to still art. While they are talented fan animators out there, they are usually short and done cheaply, and they still need musicians and VAs. A typical person does not have the time and money to compete with big studios.
2. The vast majority of anime is YA fare, and many people grow out of that at some point. Specifically being an anime themed artist can be limiting not just in audience reach, but also what topics one covers in their work. So a lot of people may take inspiration from anime, but not specifically define themselves as such to avoid pigenholing.
3. Too many anime fans watch anime and nothing else, which again compounds the audience reach issue if an artist wants to move on to different things eventually.
MelodyOfMemory said: While they are talented fan animators out there, they are usually short and done cheaply, and they still need musicians and VAs. I'm surprised more studios don't use public domain soundtracks to avoid having to pay composers. There aren't many ways to save money on voice acting, though, short of making a silent animation like this one. https://myanimelist.net/anime/50727/Tezuka_Chara_Ugokashite_Mimashita |
その目だれの目? |
Apr 19, 7:53 PM
#49
Lucifrost said: I'm surprised more studios don't use public domain soundtracks to avoid having to pay composers. In the context of fan animations, there are also plenty of fan music producers who will make remixes for no price other than the love of the series. But it also requires knowing who to reach out to and having good relations with them. Public domain soundtracks often sound cheesy because people already hear them as musical clichés (e.g. Toccata and Fugue in D Minor for spooky scenes). Also, avoiding paying composers this way goes against my self-interest. Making original music, let alone one that accurately tells the story of the scene it's in, takes a lot of effort and inspiration. Love Live Superstar would not work with a public domain soundtrack because the music is too important to the story itself. |
Time...it will not wait...no matter...how hard you hold on...it escapes you... |
Apr 19, 8:02 PM
#50
Reply to MelodyOfMemory
Lucifrost said:
I'm surprised more studios don't use public domain soundtracks to avoid having to pay composers.
I'm surprised more studios don't use public domain soundtracks to avoid having to pay composers.
In the context of fan animations, there are also plenty of fan music producers who will make remixes for no price other than the love of the series. But it also requires knowing who to reach out to and having good relations with them. Public domain soundtracks often sound cheesy because people already hear them as musical clichés (e.g. Toccata and Fugue in D Minor for spooky scenes).
Also, avoiding paying composers this way goes against my self-interest. Making original music, let alone one that accurately tells the story of the scene it's in, takes a lot of effort and inspiration. Love Live Superstar would not work with a public domain soundtrack because the music is too important to the story itself.
MelodyOfMemory said: Public domain soundtracks often sound cheesy because people already hear them as musical clichés (e.g. Toccata and Fugue in D Minor for spooky scenes). That's the result of laziness and ignorance. Yuri On Ice and Catherine both use Beethoven pieces I had never heard before. |
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