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Mar 9, 2022 12:01 AM

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I recently talked to my daughter on the phone who currently lives and goes to school in Japan. I took this opportunity to ask her some questions about Chinese "donghua" in Japan. Her friends that she goes to school with don't even usually watch movies or TV let alone watch any Chinese "donghua". Any of her friends who do watch Anime will usually avoid watching Chinese "donghua".

The thing is the Japanese people generally just don't have a very good view of China and this is broadly shared. Mainly because any news coverage of China in Japan is always negative. Yet if she asks anyone she knows what they think of the Chinese people they always say they are extremely nice and opened minded more so than Japanese. These are actual people she has talked to before that have been to China.

The most recent western movie her and her friends have actually watched together was on Netflix and it was "Inception". This is a movie that was released over a decade ago that her and her friends have finally watched for the 1st time. So you can imagine the response I got when I asked her if she has ever heard of "Link Click". She said it sounds familiar yet has no interest in ever watching it. It's more likely "Link Click" was produced purposely to imitate the likeness of a typical Japanese Anime aimed at a Japanese audience but ended up becoming better received by western Anime Fans.

Of course I talked about a lot of other things with my daughter totally unrelated to "donghua". Still it was very informative talking to her about this stuff.

From this insight my daughter has given me, it's likely Chinese "donghua" internationally will probably start targeting Western audiences over Japanese audiences in the future.

This should be good news for all you "donghua otakus" (yes I just made that word up) out there on this site.
ColourWheelMar 9, 2022 12:14 AM
Mar 9, 2022 12:12 AM

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Some of them are really good, for example, White Cat Legend, Fairies Albums, Tomb Robber Notes Qinling God Tree, Antidote.
Mar 9, 2022 1:35 AM
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Howdym8 said:
Is there a Chinese version of Hentai?


Yes. But it was produced probably in Taiwan. Cause China has strict laws against Pornography.
Mar 9, 2022 1:53 AM
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Dong Hua really is not targeted at any audience other than the domestic audience of 1.4 billion people using Chinese sites like Bilibili, Youkou etc etc.

If anything. the fact that Donghua is making it onto platforms like netflix and amazon prime, shows that these platforms recognises the potential these works have on the global Chinese population living outside of China.

As mentioned before you can find most Donghua for free on Youtube, Bilibili even has an official channel it uploads episodes to with english subs, so people around the world can enjoy it for free.

None of the works have anything that would appeal to one audience. For example all the martial art cultivation genres, are so obscure to anyone who has not been exposed to Chinese media, they would not see an attraction to them. But when people give them a try and find they enjoy them, they spread the message along and it gains a following.

Honestly if a Donghua is popular at home, its pretty much made it in terms of revenue, After all the market potential of Japan is smaller than that of the rest of Asia, and these places have larger Chinese communities.

The fact that Chinese Donghua is getting Japanese dubs, is no different than Genshin Impact getting a Japanese dub. Link Click, Mo Dao Zu Shi have been recognised as great works, so its natural that even Japanese broadcasters would take note of it, as domestic and Japanese audiences start to share their love for these shows.

If anything its probably the rise in social media, reviews and influencers that are helping more than anything.

If anything, you'd hope that with a growing animation industry in China, it would push the Japanese animation industry to improve their working conditions.

Mar 9, 2022 2:36 AM

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I haven't watched any of them yet but I plan to watch them at some point. I've read Tian guan ci fu which I think is really good.


Arteta's Tricky Reds!


Mar 9, 2022 2:48 AM

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shintai88 said:
If anything, you'd hope that with a growing animation industry in China, it would push the Japanese animation industry to improve their working conditions.


Even if Japan doesn't, China will have to produce something incredibly ground breaking in order to stand out from everything else being released within the next few years.

On top of any new franchises being released between now and the next year you got titles like "DanMachi 4th Season", "Goblin Slayer 2nd Season", "Ascendance of a Bookworm 3rd Season", "BOFURI 2nd Season", "Rent-a-Girlfriend 2nd Season", "Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear 2nd Season", "Misfit of Demon King Academy 2nd Season", "Welcome to Demon Schoo! 3rd Season", "Overlord IV", "Science Fell in Love 2nd Season", "Shadows House 2nd Season", "Shield Hero Season 2", "Tonikaku Kawaii 2nd Season", "Vinland Saga Season 2", "The Saga of Tanya the Evil II", "Golden Kamuy 4th Season", and "Made in Abyss 2nd Season", These are just "some" of the continuations to franchises we know about likely set to release within the next two years.

As well as these two films "New KonoSuba Movie" and "That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime Movie".

Just when you thought this was enough to compete with, The Anime industry brings back these franshises back to life that have clear established cult followings "The Devil is a Part-Timer! 2nd Season", "Classroom of the Elite Season 2", and "Urusei Yatsura (2022)".

Japan would have to completely flop hardcore on a majority of the titles listed above for any hope of even the brightest of "donghua" titles to stand out this year and the next.
ColourWheelMar 9, 2022 3:03 AM
Mar 9, 2022 3:06 AM
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ColourWheel said:
shintai88 said:
If anything, you'd hope that with a growing animation industry in China, it would push the Japanese animation industry to improve their working conditions.


Even if Japan doesn't, China will have to produce something incredibly ground breaking in order to stand out from everything else being released within the next few years.

On top of any new franchises being released between now and the next year you got titles like "DanMachi 4th Season", "Goblin Slayer 2nd Season", "Ascendance of a Bookworm 3rd Season", "BOFURI 2nd Season", "Rent-a-Girlfriend 2nd Season", "Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear 2nd Season", "Misfit of Demon King Academy 2nd Season", "Welcome to Demon Schoo! 3rd Season", "Overlord IV", "Science Fell in Love 2nd Season", "Shadows House 2nd Season", "Shield Hero Season 2", "Tonikaku Kawaii 2nd Season", "Vinland Saga Season 2", "The Saga of Tanya the Evil II", "Golden Kamuy 4th Season", and "Made in Abyss 2nd Season", These are just "some" of the continuations to franchises we know about likely set to release within the next two years.

As well as these two films "New KonoSuba Movie" and "That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime Movie".

Just when you thought this was enough to compete with, The Anime industry brings back these franshises back to life that have clear established cult followings "The Devil is a Part-Timer! 2nd Season", "Classroom of the Elite Season 2", and "Urusei Yatsura (2022)".

Japan would have to complete flop hardcore on a majority of the titles listed above for any hope of even the brightest of "donghua" titles to stand out this year and the next.


Decent line up, now is the animation quality and the direction going to be good is another question, Danmachi season 2 for me was terrible, so I can only hope its good. Overlord has been consistent so hope that is the same, Tanya is good, been reading the novel, so I know they have messed with how things are meant to play out.
Vinland has stayed true to the source material, so I expect season 2 to flesh out his enlightenment after revengue. Made in Abyss lost interest due to how long it took for season 2, Golden Kamuy again consistent so looking forward. Hataraku, too long ago, not sure, elite classroom again too long ago, Urusei never watched.

If anything I hope that with such titles the product produced is good. But again if pay and work conditions don't improve. Then in the future Chinese Animation studios could headhunt key animators for Donghua projects, or outsource their projects to Japanese studios and animation companies, Which will unfortunately affect the quality of Japanese animation as a whole.

Mar 9, 2022 3:59 AM

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They are worth watching, no doubt.

"Mo Dao Zu Shi" (although it might raise the bar to high and give you unreasonably high hopes for all other chinese series).

Voice acting is pretty good, I mean it was only after 10 years, that I started to find fault with japanese voice acting. So as long as the language itself doesn't bother you, you'll be fine.

Yeah it's different from japanese anime. But similar to what you've learned to enjoy in japanese anime. There are just as many things you will learn to enjoy in chinese animation. Culture, every day life, values, traditions and a mountain of other things.
Mar 9, 2022 4:08 AM

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shintai88 said:
If anything I hope that with such titles the product produced is good. But again if pay and work conditions don't improve. Then in the future Chinese Animation studios could headhunt key animators for Donghua projects, or outsource their projects to Japanese studios and animation companies, Which will unfortunately affect the quality of Japanese animation as a whole.


You would think after such bad working condition that every Artist in the industry would have defected already gone to live in China. The thing is that in Japan the quality of life is exponentially better just for the fact that Japan is a smaller country. It's estimated that the quality of living in Japan is 30% higher than living in China.
Mar 9, 2022 4:23 AM
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ColourWheel said:
shintai88 said:
If anything I hope that with such titles the product produced is good. But again if pay and work conditions don't improve. Then in the future Chinese Animation studios could headhunt key animators for Donghua projects, or outsource their projects to Japanese studios and animation companies, Which will unfortunately affect the quality of Japanese animation as a whole.


You would think after such bad working condition that every Artist in the industry would have defected already gone to live in China. The thing is that in Japan the quality of life is exponentially better just for the fact that Japan is a smaller country. It's estimated that the quality of living in Japan is 30% higher than living in China.


You might think that, but people are a creature of habit and routine, even if you know the conditions are bad, and that there are better conditions out there, few will venture out of their routine and comfort zone. Reason why instead of getting them to come over to China, some Chinese companies have instead established studios in Japan to hire animators to work on Chinese works in Japan.
Mar 9, 2022 6:39 AM
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Chinese anime is still evolving I guess. I've watched Mo Dao Zu Shi and the King's avatar. To be honest they both are adapted from novels so of course the plot would be decent.
Also the dubbing, I guess it's ok if you like listening to Chinese like me but for others changing from Japanese to Chinese might feel strange, but some are really worth it.
Mar 9, 2022 1:01 PM

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It's not a competition SMH. If you like Jujitsu Kaisen, it doesn't mean you can't like Demon Slayer. From an audience perspective, it's absolutely irrelevant whether donghua stands out, or whether nobody watches them, unless your metric for quality is popularity. Personally speaking, the A-Tier donghua in my profile are better than every single Japanese franchise listed above. Now tell me when Chihayafuru 4 or Rakugo 3 come out. The only thing that has any chance of being above average in that list is Vinland Saga 2.
My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com
THE CHAT CLUB.
Mar 10, 2022 4:35 AM

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katsucats said:
It's not a competition SMH. If you like Jujitsu Kaisen, it doesn't mean you can't like Demon Slayer. From an audience perspective, it's absolutely irrelevant whether donghua stands out, or whether nobody watches them, unless your metric for quality is popularity. Personally speaking, the A-Tier donghua in my profile are better than every single Japanese franchise listed above. Now tell me when Chihayafuru 4 or Rakugo 3 come out. The only thing that has any chance of being above average in that list is Vinland Saga 2.


Whether you care about it or not , it is more of a competition than you would think. If China wasn't trying to compete with Japan in this industry there would be no reason for any "donghua" to ever be produced then placed on platforms like netflix. They have even released a "Japanese" Dub of "Link Click". Probably not because there is a sudden demand for it in Japan. Anyone would be a fool to think that Chinese "donghua" isn't trying to imitate Japanese "Anime" here.

Also it's a pretty bolt claim to make that the so called "A-tier" donghua in your profile is better than every single Japanese franchise listed in a previous post. Considering I have no clue what donghua your profile pic is referencing to.
ColourWheelMar 10, 2022 4:43 AM
Aug 9, 2023 1:35 AM
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Chinese anime would be ok with English dubs.. 
Some might even be great...!!
However, as it stands, most people dislike Chinese subbed anime simply because the language is terrible on the ears of most westerners.
I can't stand an anime that has a voiceover repeating the same word 15 times, in different tones, to cover an entire topic.
The Chinese language is gruff and harsh, full of hisses and grunts. Not pleasant to listen to, as specially in an anime.
The Japanese language is much easier on western ears. It's less gruff and has a much more rhythmic flow to it and westerners are used to it.
Apr 15, 2:56 PM
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katsucats said:
I am taking the morally high ground, because I own the morally high ground, unless you think dreaming up xenophobic conspiracies is somehow justifiable.


You are the one who keeps bringing up this xenophobic crap. If you want to believe you are taking the morally high ground I could care less. Simply not liking "donghua" and thinks it doesn't belong grouped together with Japanese Anime Doesn't mean I hate Chinese people. You are stroking your own racist propaganda simply by injecting it into the conversation to begin with.

katsucats said:
Which show did you watch? Please tell us so we could all judge the "propaganda" for ourselves.


Obviously nothing worth remembering since I didn't even finish a complete episode of any of the titles.

If you are interested in wasting your own time to sniff out "propaganda" in "Donghua" do it on your own and not involve me with it ever. I simply don't like Chinese "donghua", and have better things to do in my leisure time like watching actual "Japanese Anime".
@ColourWheel jesus keep politics out, if you have a problem with chinese animes on MAL write to MAL, no one cares if donghuas are generally "worse" or "better" than animes or if it will grow in the future or not. (tho your debate with katsucats was very interesting to read)
Apr 15, 3:11 PM
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Reply to ColourWheel
I recently talked to my daughter on the phone who currently lives and goes to school in Japan. I took this opportunity to ask her some questions about Chinese "donghua" in Japan. Her friends that she goes to school with don't even usually watch movies or TV let alone watch any Chinese "donghua". Any of her friends who do watch Anime will usually avoid watching Chinese "donghua".

The thing is the Japanese people generally just don't have a very good view of China and this is broadly shared. Mainly because any news coverage of China in Japan is always negative. Yet if she asks anyone she knows what they think of the Chinese people they always say they are extremely nice and opened minded more so than Japanese. These are actual people she has talked to before that have been to China.

The most recent western movie her and her friends have actually watched together was on Netflix and it was "Inception". This is a movie that was released over a decade ago that her and her friends have finally watched for the 1st time. So you can imagine the response I got when I asked her if she has ever heard of "Link Click". She said it sounds familiar yet has no interest in ever watching it. It's more likely "Link Click" was produced purposely to imitate the likeness of a typical Japanese Anime aimed at a Japanese audience but ended up becoming better received by western Anime Fans.

Of course I talked about a lot of other things with my daughter totally unrelated to "donghua". Still it was very informative talking to her about this stuff.

From this insight my daughter has given me, it's likely Chinese "donghua" internationally will probably start targeting Western audiences over Japanese audiences in the future.

This should be good news for all you "donghua otakus" (yes I just made that word up) out there on this site.
@ColourWheel donghuas primarily target the chinese domestic audience, i really dont think its some evil conspiracy by the chinese government to diminish japanese animes. i mean id think its logical that: china has a bigger population and market => more demand/animation studios => more works even tho they're decent at best (but thats subjective), again i wouldn't drag politics into this, if the product is good id watch it even if its from north korea ngl
Apr 15, 3:22 PM
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Reply to ColourWheel
katsucats said:
It's not a competition SMH. If you like Jujitsu Kaisen, it doesn't mean you can't like Demon Slayer. From an audience perspective, it's absolutely irrelevant whether donghua stands out, or whether nobody watches them, unless your metric for quality is popularity. Personally speaking, the A-Tier donghua in my profile are better than every single Japanese franchise listed above. Now tell me when Chihayafuru 4 or Rakugo 3 come out. The only thing that has any chance of being above average in that list is Vinland Saga 2.


Whether you care about it or not , it is more of a competition than you would think. If China wasn't trying to compete with Japan in this industry there would be no reason for any "donghua" to ever be produced then placed on platforms like netflix. They have even released a "Japanese" Dub of "Link Click". Probably not because there is a sudden demand for it in Japan. Anyone would be a fool to think that Chinese "donghua" isn't trying to imitate Japanese "Anime" here.

Also it's a pretty bolt claim to make that the so called "A-tier" donghua in your profile is better than every single Japanese franchise listed in a previous post. Considering I have no clue what donghua your profile pic is referencing to.
@ColourWheel
ColourWheel said:
Anyone would be a fool to think that Chinese "donghua" isn't trying to imitate Japanese "Anime" here.

korea also produces anime stuff. generally to east asians, its just an art style. chinese studios produce works in the art style because it appeals to the chinese audience, not because it wants to destroy the japanese anime industry, and again id refrain from making this political
Apr 15, 3:49 PM

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ryo-san said:
What are your thoughts on Chinese anime?

I don't generally enjoy Chinese anime because most of them just have low production value. Link click and scissor seven are the only ones I remember genuinely enjoying. There might be some others but i can't remember.


ryo-san said:
Do you think they're worth watching? Which ones would be a good starter?

Well everything is worth watching imo. And the best one to start is obviously link click


ryo-san said:
How is Chinese voice acting ?
i feel a bit uncomfortable hearing chinese voice acting which can't be helped as it's not that big of an industry.


ryo-san said:
Is it different from japanese anime?

Well there are some cultural differences. But that's it.
Apr 15, 4:07 PM

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@sodaJar

Seriously Necroing a thread to rehashing a discussion that happened in 2022? lol

Though I will bite and play along with this facade...

You don't even understand context to the issue this dude had with me to begin with. This guy actually friended on MAL a long time ago then unfriended me simply because I don't like Chinese Donghua garbage. Then the dude tried to block me out of pettiness when blocking a User does absolutely nothing when they keep actively engaging with the User they have blocked. The guy constantly throws around buzz words like "xenophobia" to try to paint Users as racist simply because they don't like Chinese Donghua, disregarding the fact that Donghua isn't even people.

Plus, I have taken my grievances "in the past" (long past....) to the MAL mods. It actually changed my opinion on a few things but still doesn't change the fact that I think Chinese Donghua is still complete garbage. lol

sodaJar said:
donghuas primarily target the chinese domestic audience, i really dont think its some evil conspiracy by the chinese government to diminish japanese animes.


I never claimed any of this before but whatever... Though, simple fact that all Chinese Donghua is state sponsored CCP approved makes all Donghua propaganda in itself.

sodaJar said:
china has a bigger population and market => more demand/animation studios => more works even tho they're decent at best (but thats subjective), again i wouldn't drag politics into this, if the product is good id watch it even if its from north korea ngl


What is your point here? You do realize MAL is a Western platform, so if what you are saying is true, why should all this Chinese Donghua garbage be flooding the MAL database when an extremely vast majority of it isn't even actually legally available on any of the many western platforms that cater to actual Japanese Anime? Also if Donghua is primarily only created to target the Chinese Domestic audience, then what is the purpose of it flooding a western database like MAL with a bunch of Donghua that Users can't consume legally anyways?

sodaJar said:
korea also produces anime stuff. generally to east asians, its just an art style.


There is no such thing as Korean Anime no more than there is such thing as Japanese Aeni or Japanese Donghua.

sodaJar said:
chinese studios produce works in the art style because it appeals to the chinese audience, not because it wants to destroy the japanese anime industry, and again id refrain from making this political


Well good for them. Though again I never made any claim that China wants to destroy the Japanese Anime Industry. Even if they did, they are decades behind Japan when it comes to global marketing. Chinese Donghua doesn't even come close to being any type of global phenomenon and it's not even an extreme part of China's culture to the degree Anime is with Japan's Culture. China destroying the Japanese Anime industry with Donghua garbage? In the CCP's wildest dreams. lol
ColourWheelApr 15, 4:28 PM
Apr 15, 4:10 PM

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Kingdom and The Apothecary Diaries are a great watch!
Apr 15, 4:14 PM

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Kingdom and The Apothecary Diaries are a great watch!
@red1130 thats not chinese anime its japanese
Apr 15, 11:42 PM
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@sodaJar

Seriously Necroing a thread to rehashing a discussion that happened in 2022? lol

Though I will bite and play along with this facade...

You don't even understand context to the issue this dude had with me to begin with. This guy actually friended on MAL a long time ago then unfriended me simply because I don't like Chinese Donghua garbage. Then the dude tried to block me out of pettiness when blocking a User does absolutely nothing when they keep actively engaging with the User they have blocked. The guy constantly throws around buzz words like "xenophobia" to try to paint Users as racist simply because they don't like Chinese Donghua, disregarding the fact that Donghua isn't even people.

Plus, I have taken my grievances "in the past" (long past....) to the MAL mods. It actually changed my opinion on a few things but still doesn't change the fact that I think Chinese Donghua is still complete garbage. lol

sodaJar said:
donghuas primarily target the chinese domestic audience, i really dont think its some evil conspiracy by the chinese government to diminish japanese animes.


I never claimed any of this before but whatever... Though, simple fact that all Chinese Donghua is state sponsored CCP approved makes all Donghua propaganda in itself.

sodaJar said:
china has a bigger population and market => more demand/animation studios => more works even tho they're decent at best (but thats subjective), again i wouldn't drag politics into this, if the product is good id watch it even if its from north korea ngl


What is your point here? You do realize MAL is a Western platform, so if what you are saying is true, why should all this Chinese Donghua garbage be flooding the MAL database when an extremely vast majority of it isn't even actually legally available on any of the many western platforms that cater to actual Japanese Anime? Also if Donghua is primarily only created to target the Chinese Domestic audience, then what is the purpose of it flooding a western database like MAL with a bunch of Donghua that Users can't consume legally anyways?

sodaJar said:
korea also produces anime stuff. generally to east asians, its just an art style.


There is no such thing as Korean Anime no more than there is such thing as Japanese Aeni or Japanese Donghua.

sodaJar said:
chinese studios produce works in the art style because it appeals to the chinese audience, not because it wants to destroy the japanese anime industry, and again id refrain from making this political


Well good for them. Though again I never made any claim that China wants to destroy the Japanese Anime Industry. Even if they did, they are decades behind Japan when it comes to global marketing. Chinese Donghua doesn't even come close to being any type of global phenomenon and it's not even an extreme part of China's culture to the degree Anime is with Japan's Culture. China destroying the Japanese Anime industry with Donghua garbage? In the CCP's wildest dreams. lol
@ColourWheel i agree donghuas on average are no where near as good as animes, and i dont really care if it has its own identity or not, the problem i have is that you seem to think that ALL donghuas are propaganda. i mean id feel bad as a genuine chinese manhua artist or novelist getting my work animated only to be called CCP propaganda

ColourWheel said:
why should all this Chinese Donghua garbage be flooding the MAL database


^you're implying a targeted operation from the chinese government, that sounds like conspiracy theory to me. if the mods approved them, why are you overly concerned, if you dont like donghuas just dont watch them (also i agree with kastucats that its not a competition)
Apr 16, 12:21 AM
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@sodaJar

Seriously Necroing a thread to rehashing a discussion that happened in 2022? lol

Though I will bite and play along with this facade...

You don't even understand context to the issue this dude had with me to begin with. This guy actually friended on MAL a long time ago then unfriended me simply because I don't like Chinese Donghua garbage. Then the dude tried to block me out of pettiness when blocking a User does absolutely nothing when they keep actively engaging with the User they have blocked. The guy constantly throws around buzz words like "xenophobia" to try to paint Users as racist simply because they don't like Chinese Donghua, disregarding the fact that Donghua isn't even people.

Plus, I have taken my grievances "in the past" (long past....) to the MAL mods. It actually changed my opinion on a few things but still doesn't change the fact that I think Chinese Donghua is still complete garbage. lol

sodaJar said:
donghuas primarily target the chinese domestic audience, i really dont think its some evil conspiracy by the chinese government to diminish japanese animes.


I never claimed any of this before but whatever... Though, simple fact that all Chinese Donghua is state sponsored CCP approved makes all Donghua propaganda in itself.

sodaJar said:
china has a bigger population and market => more demand/animation studios => more works even tho they're decent at best (but thats subjective), again i wouldn't drag politics into this, if the product is good id watch it even if its from north korea ngl


What is your point here? You do realize MAL is a Western platform, so if what you are saying is true, why should all this Chinese Donghua garbage be flooding the MAL database when an extremely vast majority of it isn't even actually legally available on any of the many western platforms that cater to actual Japanese Anime? Also if Donghua is primarily only created to target the Chinese Domestic audience, then what is the purpose of it flooding a western database like MAL with a bunch of Donghua that Users can't consume legally anyways?

sodaJar said:
korea also produces anime stuff. generally to east asians, its just an art style.


There is no such thing as Korean Anime no more than there is such thing as Japanese Aeni or Japanese Donghua.

sodaJar said:
chinese studios produce works in the art style because it appeals to the chinese audience, not because it wants to destroy the japanese anime industry, and again id refrain from making this political


Well good for them. Though again I never made any claim that China wants to destroy the Japanese Anime Industry. Even if they did, they are decades behind Japan when it comes to global marketing. Chinese Donghua doesn't even come close to being any type of global phenomenon and it's not even an extreme part of China's culture to the degree Anime is with Japan's Culture. China destroying the Japanese Anime industry with Donghua garbage? In the CCP's wildest dreams. lol
ColourWheel said:
There is no such thing as Korean Anime no more than there is such thing as Japanese Aeni or Japanese Donghua.
yes by "korean anime" i meant aeni, thats just semantics, you get what i mean
Apr 16, 12:22 AM

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Nu Wushen de Canzhuo is the only one I have seen so far. I liked it.
Apr 16, 12:43 AM

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sodaJar said:
@ColourWheel i agree donghuas on average are no where near as good as animes, and i dont really care if it has its own identity or not, the problem i have is that you seem to think that ALL donghuas are propaganda. i mean id feel bad as a genuine chinese manhua artist or novelist getting my work animated only to be called CCP propaganda


Call it what you might, if the CCP is financially supporting the production and actively policing what can and can not be produced, it's propaganda in itself. If you were a Genuine Chinese Manhua artist, your ideas would ultimately be shut down the moment the CCP claimed anything you produced could be seen counter to their agenda and as a threat to the country. The CCP would never allow you to produce any material that would make the CCP as some villain organization, fictional or not. The CCP would not allow you any sort of autonomy as an artist to begin with. the CCP would likely even make you disappear completely even go to the extreme of wiping any trace of you off the internet (they have done it before and they keep trying to do it over and over again *Zhao Wei*).

sodaJar said:
^you're implying a targeted operation from the chinese government, that sounds like conspiracy theory to me.


This is exactly what the CCP does. The Chinese Communist Party has been known to engage in targeted operations on internet forums both domestically and internationally. These operations typically involve a variety of tactics aimed at shaping online discourse to align with the party's objectives and suppress dissenting voices.

The CCP employs sophisticated censorship mechanisms to control the flow of information on Chinese internet forums. This includes blocking access to certain websites, filtering out sensitive keywords, and even employing human moderators to manually delete posts that are deemed politically sensitive or critical of the party. The CCP uses internet forums as a platform to disseminate propaganda and misinformation that promotes its agenda and suppresses dissent. This can involve the spread of false information, manipulation of discussions to sway public opinion, and the use of paid trolls to post pro-party messages and discredit opposition voices. The CCP often engages in astroturfing, which involves creating fake grassroots movements or online personas to give the illusion of widespread support for party policies or positions. These fake accounts are used to amplify pro-party messages, drown out dissent, and create a false sense of consensus. In more extreme cases, the CCP has been accused of using cyber attacks and hacking to silence critics and disrupt online forums that are seen as a threat to its authority. This can involve targeting activists, journalists, and dissidents with malware or distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks to shut down their websites or social media accounts. furthermore The CCP also extends its influence beyond China's borders by infiltrating international internet forums and social media platforms just like MAL. This can involve the creation of fake accounts or the co-opting of existing ones to spread pro-party propaganda, discredit critics, and manipulate discussions on topics related to China's interests.

If you don't believe me I dare anyone who has access to actual Chinese platforms and try even in humor mock the CCP and see exactly what happens. I have done it before in the past just for fun and I was automatically wiped from the site and my IP was banned but not before I was suddenly ganged up on and attacked by other Users on the platform for showing even humorous dissent.

TLTR; The CCP's targeted operations on internet forums represent a multifaceted strategies aimed at controlling the flow of information, suppressing dissent, and shaping online discourse to serve the party's agenda both within China and globally.

As an example the only way to really ever know if someone is a paid internet troll working for the CCP can be easy to sniff out simply by calling them out. I would dare you to post anything critical about the CCP or would that be too much to ask?

I wonder why someone out of the blue would dig up a discussion from over 2 year ago with an extreme interest in just this one thread... Your post count on this forum tell me all I need to know.
ColourWheelApr 16, 1:10 AM
Apr 16, 1:13 AM

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10623
ColourWheel said:
Though, simple fact that all Chinese Donghua is state sponsored CCP

Is all donghua sponsored by CCP tho? If your definition for that is simply being produced BiliBili, they are just profiting from popularity. Not to mention there are other donghua producing corporations like Tencent, Youku and even japanese ones like Aniplex.
We are talking about adaptations of highly popular web novels and web comics which are the platforms to go when you want less censorship and no administrative obstructions.
I can argue that with the censorship included, those web novels and web comics are the freest form of artistic expression in China (this coming from a person who has never been there).

ColourWheel said:
ALL donghuas are propaganda

Can you point me at a donghua which tries to change viewer's political ideas? Of course there are such and of course those are sponsored by CCP, but are those even available in the West?
From all the donghua I have watched (146 completed titles with 36 days of watching in total...since I started only 5 years ago and it's not my main focus) none has political propaganda and I am from an ex-Eastern Block country, I know what socialist propaganda is.

But maybe you don't trust me, how about giving some examples of propaganda from shows like Cike Wu Liuqi (Scissor Seven), Liang Bu Yi (No Doubt In Us), Aiyou de Mishi (X&Y) or Dragon Raja?


PS
You sound really paranoid about CCP and maybe you should be, but can you prove they use all donghua for their needs?



alshuApr 16, 1:19 AM
Apr 16, 1:53 AM

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alshu said:
Is all donghua sponsored by CCP tho?


This statement you quoted me out of context on was more of a generalization. I already corrected myself with this statement here below...

ColourWheel said:
Call it what you might, if the CCP is financially supporting the production and actively policing what can and can not be produced, it's propaganda in itself.


Which to my understanding is a vast majority of everything that is being actually exclusively produced in China.

alshu said:
Can you point me at a donghua which tries to change viewer's political ideas?


Honestly wouldn't even care enough to dig that deep to waste my actual time to watch a bunch of garbage. But I have done enough research on how the CCP operates to know enough about the way they police their own entertainment. Even if there aren't direct examples I can point to, things like entertainment that are state sponsored can be subtle if one consumes enough of something. As an example if you were to start consuming foods you are not use to that give you a physical reaction, over time if you keep consuming the same thing the reaction could weaken to even completely disappear over time. The same thing applies to any media entertainment one consumes. This could simply be ways of thought to direct opinions on issues. Only being able to consume entertainment that is CCP approved can dramatically effect the way one thinks.

alshu said:
You sound really paranoid about CCP and maybe you should be, but can you prove they use all donghua for their needs?


I am not here to prove anything to anyone. People can think for themselves. If someone is skeptical to anything I have been saying they can do their own research and form their own opinions on the matter. It's pointless to prove anything when you see User so pro-CCP trying to dig up old discussions from a few years ago just to rehash this petty topic.
ColourWheelApr 16, 2:03 AM
Apr 16, 2:37 AM
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Reply to ColourWheel
sodaJar said:
@ColourWheel i agree donghuas on average are no where near as good as animes, and i dont really care if it has its own identity or not, the problem i have is that you seem to think that ALL donghuas are propaganda. i mean id feel bad as a genuine chinese manhua artist or novelist getting my work animated only to be called CCP propaganda


Call it what you might, if the CCP is financially supporting the production and actively policing what can and can not be produced, it's propaganda in itself. If you were a Genuine Chinese Manhua artist, your ideas would ultimately be shut down the moment the CCP claimed anything you produced could be seen counter to their agenda and as a threat to the country. The CCP would never allow you to produce any material that would make the CCP as some villain organization, fictional or not. The CCP would not allow you any sort of autonomy as an artist to begin with. the CCP would likely even make you disappear completely even go to the extreme of wiping any trace of you off the internet (they have done it before and they keep trying to do it over and over again *Zhao Wei*).

sodaJar said:
^you're implying a targeted operation from the chinese government, that sounds like conspiracy theory to me.


This is exactly what the CCP does. The Chinese Communist Party has been known to engage in targeted operations on internet forums both domestically and internationally. These operations typically involve a variety of tactics aimed at shaping online discourse to align with the party's objectives and suppress dissenting voices.

The CCP employs sophisticated censorship mechanisms to control the flow of information on Chinese internet forums. This includes blocking access to certain websites, filtering out sensitive keywords, and even employing human moderators to manually delete posts that are deemed politically sensitive or critical of the party. The CCP uses internet forums as a platform to disseminate propaganda and misinformation that promotes its agenda and suppresses dissent. This can involve the spread of false information, manipulation of discussions to sway public opinion, and the use of paid trolls to post pro-party messages and discredit opposition voices. The CCP often engages in astroturfing, which involves creating fake grassroots movements or online personas to give the illusion of widespread support for party policies or positions. These fake accounts are used to amplify pro-party messages, drown out dissent, and create a false sense of consensus. In more extreme cases, the CCP has been accused of using cyber attacks and hacking to silence critics and disrupt online forums that are seen as a threat to its authority. This can involve targeting activists, journalists, and dissidents with malware or distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks to shut down their websites or social media accounts. furthermore The CCP also extends its influence beyond China's borders by infiltrating international internet forums and social media platforms just like MAL. This can involve the creation of fake accounts or the co-opting of existing ones to spread pro-party propaganda, discredit critics, and manipulate discussions on topics related to China's interests.

If you don't believe me I dare anyone who has access to actual Chinese platforms and try even in humor mock the CCP and see exactly what happens. I have done it before in the past just for fun and I was automatically wiped from the site and my IP was banned but not before I was suddenly ganged up on and attacked by other Users on the platform for showing even humorous dissent.

TLTR; The CCP's targeted operations on internet forums represent a multifaceted strategies aimed at controlling the flow of information, suppressing dissent, and shaping online discourse to serve the party's agenda both within China and globally.

As an example the only way to really ever know if someone is a paid internet troll working for the CCP can be easy to sniff out simply by calling them out. I would dare you to post anything critical about the CCP or would that be too much to ask?

I wonder why someone out of the blue would dig up a discussion from over 2 year ago with an extreme interest in just this one thread... Your post count on this forum tell me all I need to know.
@ColourWheel first of all i dont use myanimelist often, just registered it few years ago just because. randomly came across this thread and saw your argument w/ katsucats. the chinese government is to be despised for its stance on taiwan/tibet/censorship/uyghur human right abuses/etc., lets get that out of the way before you call me a CCP propagandist (and god please i do not want this to get political). to be honest, I have lived in china and knows exactly how the censorship works.

ColourWheel said:
Call it what you might, if the CCP is financially supporting the production and actively policing what can and can not be produced, it's propaganda in itself.


Just because its under censorship (definitely to a more extensive degree than other countries) doesn't mean it cannot possess any artistic merit and has to be state propaganda. if you think any kind of spreading of culture from china is CCP propaganda, you'd just be very biased.

ColourWheel said:
This is exactly what the CCP does. The Chinese Communist Party has been known to engage in targeted operations on internet forums both domestically and internationally. These operations typically involve a variety of tactics aimed at shaping online discourse to align with the party's objectives and suppress dissenting voices.


i know what you're talking about, but i wouldnt apply it to every single situation that involves china without evidence, cuz otherwise its just paranoia. and + why does it even matter, if donghuas are trash just dont watch them

ColourWheel said:
The CCP's targeted operations on internet forums represent a multifaceted strategies aimed at controlling the flow of information, suppressing dissent, and shaping online discourse to serve the party's agenda both within China and globally.


i am familiar with that, but that does not mean all donghuas are propaganda. the reality is, anything political is a big no-no in china (100% agreed), even if an animation is not political, there might still be aesthetical censors (sexually explicit content, sometimes gore, etc.) but that in no way means its a government directive to massively produce donghuas (in a specific way, depicting specific events) to flood the western market. HOWEVER, there is actual propaganda donghua, just search up "the leader"/"Ling Feng Zhe", you'll have a good laugh.
sodaJarApr 16, 2:41 AM
Apr 16, 2:56 AM

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sodaJar said:
if you think anything kind of spreading of culture from china is CCP propaganda, you'd just be very biased.


Ever since the CCP practically took over China, that's pretty much all that every get produced is entertainment that is CCP approved. I wouldn't really change my opinion on this until one day I actually saw a bunch of fictional Donghua garbage making the CCP out as the villain. lol

Call it biased if you want I don't care and for the record never claimed I was ever consuming Donghua garbage in the 1st place. This whole debate started simply because I made my own opinion on something while brutally started trashing Donghua as complete garbage then the Donghua shills came out in droves to defend it. lol

The one thing I found that really triggers people who love Donghua is constantly reminding them that Donghua garbage is factually State Media. Anything that is significantly influenced by the Chinese government is generally propaganda.
ColourWheelApr 16, 3:04 AM
Apr 16, 3:02 AM

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10623
ColourWheel said:
Honestly wouldn't even care enough

Than why we should care enough about your donghua paranoia? We can simply conclude that you don't know what you are talking about.

ColourWheel said:
But I have done enough research on how the CCP operates to know enough about the way they police their own entertainment.

That's censorship, not subluminal mind control or something like that and the web novels and donghua are the least censored entertainment there. Also even a heavily censored BL show like Mo Dao Zu Shi can tell a meaningful story.

ColourWheel said:
As an example if you were to start consuming foods you are not use to that give you a physical reaction

I got what you are saying, but that's a weird example (especial in the context of what food choices are available where I live).

ColourWheel said:
Only being able to consume entertainment that is CCP approved can dramatically effect the way one thinks.

From this point of view USA and Japan (and Europe and India ect.) are doing absolutely the same and this is better for some reason?
Of course every entertainment will try to addict you - games, kpop, fidgets...whatever trash is popular, just a fact of life.
Stating the only China is doing it (or doing it in some new sci-fi-ish eviler ways) is a bit superficial and I would say naïve. Everybody is doing it.

ColourWheel said:
I am not here to prove anything to anyone.

Still people will agree more willingly with your statements if you provide personal experiences like - what wrong with X or Y show (and those shows must me some good production, since you can find trash everywhere), not just shooting them down from a distance.

At the end of the day you saying "I am simply not interested. Yes. there could be good titles or really bad ones, but right now I have other things to do." instead of "All donghua is mind poison garbage directly provided by CCP." would work better.

ColourWheel said:
User so pro-CCP trying

Are you sure they are pro-CCP (they sound more trollish to me)?
Apr 16, 3:06 AM

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@alshu

Not going to even waste my time debating the way you always quote things completely out of context all the time. If you want a serious discussion get out of that habit quickly, otherwise I am just going to ignore everything from now on if you keep doing it. It's really annoying. I am sure I wouldn't be the only one to agree with this. To make things clear, it's a trolling tactic especially when used excessively, if you didn't already know this.

how annoying would it be if Users started doing stuff like this to you?

alshu said:
Still people will agree more


I would quite agree about that because people do tend to agree more. lol I totally agree Donghua is garbage.

With that said I will say this here....

alshu said:
From this point of view USA and Japan (and Europe and India ect.) are doing absolutely the same and this is better for some reason?
Of course every entertainment will try to addict you - games, kpop, fidgets...whatever trash is popular, just a fact of life.
Stating the only China is doing it (or doing it in some new sci-fi-ish eviler ways) is a bit superficial and I would say naïve. Everybody is doing it.


The difference is not all entertainment coming out of USA, Japan, etc... is State Media or exerts significant control over it. Something that can't be said about China.
ColourWheelApr 16, 3:30 AM
Apr 16, 3:24 AM
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Unwatchable for me. Chinese voice actors aren't very good, and the language itself isn't beautiful to my ears. And visually it just looks cheap and soulless.
Apr 16, 3:41 AM
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I watch some donghua. But they're dubbing at Japanese...
I checked some random. And they looks like live2D animated while other is like 2D characters with 3D place and another one is looks good to watch.

For the language. I watch some the original. But maybe because not custom with the sound and language. Kind of off for me. I will need adjustment, maybe.
Apr 16, 4:36 AM

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ColourWheel said:
I am just going to ignore everything from now on if you keep doing it

This is how my mind works - point by point.
And since we don't have anything new to add to our conversation maybe it's a suitable place to end it.

ColourWheel said:
how annoying would it be if Users started doing stuff like this to you?

Wait, they aren't (rhetorical question)?

ColourWheel said:
it's a trolling tactic

Wow, paranoia in everything you write.
Am I trolling you (rhetorical question)? Not really.
Also I am pretty sure I conveyed clearly what I wanted to say.

ColourWheel said:
totally agree Donghua is garbage

Coincidentally most of the people who say that have never experienced donghua properly.

ColourWheel said:
The difference is not all entertainment coming out of USA, Japan, etc... is State Media or exerts significant control over it.

Not sure how to interpret this. Maybe you are saying that "State Media or exerts significant control over it" are not allowing such addiction to happen...instead of actually being tools for lobbyism and political meddling like for what they are used for in my country?
I think I have seen enough media addicted americans on internet to conclude that those regulators aren't working properly.

ColourWheel said:
Something that can't be said about China.

Same difference to me, also you are going on a tangent here. We were talking about the influence of donghua outside of China.



Apr 16, 5:36 AM

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Reply to alshu
ColourWheel said:
I am just going to ignore everything from now on if you keep doing it

This is how my mind works - point by point.
And since we don't have anything new to add to our conversation maybe it's a suitable place to end it.

ColourWheel said:
how annoying would it be if Users started doing stuff like this to you?

Wait, they aren't (rhetorical question)?

ColourWheel said:
it's a trolling tactic

Wow, paranoia in everything you write.
Am I trolling you (rhetorical question)? Not really.
Also I am pretty sure I conveyed clearly what I wanted to say.

ColourWheel said:
totally agree Donghua is garbage

Coincidentally most of the people who say that have never experienced donghua properly.

ColourWheel said:
The difference is not all entertainment coming out of USA, Japan, etc... is State Media or exerts significant control over it.

Not sure how to interpret this. Maybe you are saying that "State Media or exerts significant control over it" are not allowing such addiction to happen...instead of actually being tools for lobbyism and political meddling like for what they are used for in my country?
I think I have seen enough media addicted americans on internet to conclude that those regulators aren't working properly.

ColourWheel said:
Something that can't be said about China.

Same difference to me, also you are going on a tangent here. We were talking about the influence of donghua outside of China.



@alshu

Whatever you say "Iliana Iotova"....
Apr 16, 5:40 AM

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I've tried watching one before but it just goes so fast. They say three words and it's already an entire sentence when translated to English. Plus everyone had like, three different names each which also didn't help me following what was going on.

A lot of them also look absolutely horrible. There's a few outliers of course, but the vast majority either look like a 2000's MMO or move as much as a visual novel does.
Apr 16, 6:24 AM
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sodaJar said:
if you think anything kind of spreading of culture from china is CCP propaganda, you'd just be very biased.


Ever since the CCP practically took over China, that's pretty much all that every get produced is entertainment that is CCP approved. I wouldn't really change my opinion on this until one day I actually saw a bunch of fictional Donghua garbage making the CCP out as the villain. lol

Call it biased if you want I don't care and for the record never claimed I was ever consuming Donghua garbage in the 1st place. This whole debate started simply because I made my own opinion on something while brutally started trashing Donghua as complete garbage then the Donghua shills came out in droves to defend it. lol

The one thing I found that really triggers people who love Donghua is constantly reminding them that Donghua garbage is factually State Media. Anything that is significantly influenced by the Chinese government is generally propaganda.
@ColourWheel i completely agree that donghuas are nowhere near as good, i think our disagreement is basically this:

ColourWheel said:
Donghua garbage is factually State Media.


^that's not right, being under censorship doesn't make something state media (you have global times/CGTN/xinhua for that). in fact, the reason they NEED censorship is because they are NOT 100% controlled by the government, thats why they need to be monitored. (obviously apart from state contracts like "The leader" which was made to celebrate 200th ann of the birth of karl marx or sth)

if you decide to look at everything through a political lens, this is not the place man, MAL should be focused on the content, not the political context...



ColourWheel said:
a bunch of fictional Donghua garbage making the CCP out as the villain


japanese animes aren't political either... (and that's a part of why i like animes) why do you expect animated fiction to be political commentaries?

ig what im trying to say is just lay back man, take a break and enjoy what you enjoy, ignore what you don't, its as simple as that
sodaJarApr 16, 6:31 AM
Apr 16, 7:01 AM

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ColourWheel said:
Whatever you say "Iliana Iotova"....

Do you mean this lady here - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliana_Iotova ?
What's my supposed connection with her, since you don't even know my political alignment?

She is the vice president and lets say you don't like her automatically because of her socialist background (I personally I don't like her for the things she has actually done), but even a least favorite bulgarian politician for you should be the current president Rumen Radev, who also comes from a socialist background... Google didn't tell you that?
Tho the pestilential institution in Bulgaria has very little power and those two have very little influence on the parliament and the government. A very different thing from what the same institution is doing for example USA.

What you have proven here is you prejudice and paranoia - just like with donghua. You see something from afar, assume some things about it and decide to nuke the whole country just to be on a safe side. How about the fact that Bulgaria is a member of EU and NATO? How about the NATO bases there? Naaah, lets nuke it anyway!
Apr 16, 7:03 AM

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Reply to alshu
ColourWheel said:
Whatever you say "Iliana Iotova"....

Do you mean this lady here - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliana_Iotova ?
What's my supposed connection with her, since you don't even know my political alignment?

She is the vice president and lets say you don't like her automatically because of her socialist background (I personally I don't like her for the things she has actually done), but even a least favorite bulgarian politician for you should be the current president Rumen Radev, who also comes from a socialist background... Google didn't tell you that?
Tho the pestilential institution in Bulgaria has very little power and those two have very little influence on the parliament and the government. A very different thing from what the same institution is doing for example USA.

What you have proven here is you prejudice and paranoia - just like with donghua. You see something from afar, assume some things about it and decide to nuke the whole country just to be on a safe side. How about the fact that Bulgaria is a member of EU and NATO? How about the NATO bases there? Naaah, lets nuke it anyway!
@alshu

Now who is the paranoid one? You are literally getting triggered by your own imagination here. lol
Apr 16, 7:22 AM

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10623
ColourWheel said:
Now who is the paranoid one?

Definitely you.

ColourWheel said:
You are literally getting triggered

Actually I am having fun with your lack of understanding...from a person who claimed to have deciphered all the CCP nefarious plans.

ColourWheel said:
your own imagination

Just a little demonstration of how your logic works.

PS
I am still waiting for an explanation what is my supposed connection with Iliana Iotova, that would be hilarious.
alshuApr 16, 7:27 AM
Apr 16, 7:29 AM

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alshu said:
what is my supposed connection with Iliana Iotova


Just go look at the big CCP dick in her mouth. lol
ColourWheelApr 16, 7:53 AM
Apr 16, 7:43 AM

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ColourWheel said:
Just go look at the big CCP dick in her mouth. lol

Yey, for politeness. Also not really curious about her sex life...
So there's no connection with me...even less with "all donghua is garbage and propaganda"?
Apr 16, 9:33 AM
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sodaJar said:
if you think anything kind of spreading of culture from china is CCP propaganda, you'd just be very biased.


Ever since the CCP practically took over China, that's pretty much all that every get produced is entertainment that is CCP approved. I wouldn't really change my opinion on this until one day I actually saw a bunch of fictional Donghua garbage making the CCP out as the villain. lol

Call it biased if you want I don't care and for the record never claimed I was ever consuming Donghua garbage in the 1st place. This whole debate started simply because I made my own opinion on something while brutally started trashing Donghua as complete garbage then the Donghua shills came out in droves to defend it. lol

The one thing I found that really triggers people who love Donghua is constantly reminding them that Donghua garbage is factually State Media. Anything that is significantly influenced by the Chinese government is generally propaganda.
@ColourWheel btw i looked around a little

https://myanimelist.net/anime/producer/1414/bilibili
https://myanimelist.net/anime/producer/1617/Tencent_Japan

^a good amount of japanese titles are jointly produced by japanese producers and "CCP state media"

the chinese and japanese animation industries are probably more collaborative than you think
Apr 16, 9:48 AM

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sodaJar said:
@ColourWheel btw i looked around a little

https://myanimelist.net/anime/producer/1414/bilibili
https://myanimelist.net/anime/producer/1617/Tencent_Japan

^a good amount of japanese titles are jointly produced by japanese producers and "CCP state media"

the chinese and japanese animation industries are probably more collaborative than you think


When it comes to actual Japanese Anime, what you are pointing out amounts to a person simply investing in stock. The MAL database doesn't point out distinctions and nuances between co-producers and a primary production company. Foreign co-producers don't generally have much say in the actual production nor do they police it. In fact some of the actual Japanese Anime titles co-produced by bilibili aren't even legally allowed to be aired in China to begin with. It's like the Chinese government controlling the algorithm used for tiktok but don't even allow their own citizens to use the platform. They got their own thing called Douyin.

I was strictly talking about actual Chinese Donghua garbage, not Japanese Anime the Chinese government might be investing in. Huge difference between being the Primary Production Company and a co-producer. The CCP isn't exclusively producing actual Japanese Anime and never has.

It's almost like a quid quo pro to allow their Donghua garbage into the Japanese domestic market. lol

Broadly the Japanese Anime industry nor does the Japanese domestic market have any genuine interest in Chinese Donghua garbage, unlike how actual Western Production Companies in places like North America initially sought out Japanese Anime as a medium in the 80s to introduce into their own domestic markets.
ColourWheelApr 16, 11:15 AM
Apr 16, 11:16 AM

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That isn't anime, that's donghua...
ラーメン食いに行こうぜ~
Apr 16, 12:34 PM
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sodaJar said:
@ColourWheel btw i looked around a little

https://myanimelist.net/anime/producer/1414/bilibili
https://myanimelist.net/anime/producer/1617/Tencent_Japan

^a good amount of japanese titles are jointly produced by japanese producers and "CCP state media"

the chinese and japanese animation industries are probably more collaborative than you think


When it comes to actual Japanese Anime, what you are pointing out amounts to a person simply investing in stock. The MAL database doesn't point out distinctions and nuances between co-producers and a primary production company. Foreign co-producers don't generally have much say in the actual production nor do they police it. In fact some of the actual Japanese Anime titles co-produced by bilibili aren't even legally allowed to be aired in China to begin with. It's like the Chinese government controlling the algorithm used for tiktok but don't even allow their own citizens to use the platform. They got their own thing called Douyin.

I was strictly talking about actual Chinese Donghua garbage, not Japanese Anime the Chinese government might be investing in. Huge difference between being the Primary Production Company and a co-producer. The CCP isn't exclusively producing actual Japanese Anime and never has.

It's almost like a quid quo pro to allow their Donghua garbage into the Japanese domestic market. lol

Broadly the Japanese Anime industry nor does the Japanese domestic market have any genuine interest in Chinese Donghua garbage, unlike how actual Western Production Companies in places like North America initially sought out Japanese Anime as a medium in the 80s to introduce into their own domestic markets.
@ColourWheel i agree with everything you've written here (my point was showing that they are not some dodgy state agencies that only take propaganda work)

ColourWheel said:
Broadly the Japanese Anime industry nor does the Japanese domestic market have any genuine interest in Chinese Donghua garbage


which is exactly why ive said in a previous post that donghuas are for the chinese domestic audience

thus donghuas should be given proper respect(doesnt mean theyre good) and not simply be labelled propaganda
Apr 16, 2:40 PM

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sodaJar said:
donghuas should be given proper respect


"should" doesn't mean I have to respect it. I am free to trash on Chinese Donghua all I want.

Respect is earned not a given entitlement.

Chinese Donghua has earned no respect from me.

Why should anyone respect something they think is complete dogshit?

I certainly wouldn't expect you to respect the same things I do and seriously wouldn't care if you did or not.

To me Chinese Donghua is complete garbage and shares the same respect I have with dogshit.
ColourWheelApr 16, 3:25 PM
Apr 16, 9:39 PM
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Well for me, I recently got into Chinese Anime/Donghua and have enjoyed most of them. Ones I liked include blade of the guardians, 4 cut hero, sweet bite marks, and the girl downstairs.
Apr 16, 10:35 PM
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sodaJar said:
donghuas should be given proper respect


"should" doesn't mean I have to respect it. I am free to trash on Chinese Donghua all I want.

Respect is earned not a given entitlement.

Chinese Donghua has earned no respect from me.

Why should anyone respect something they think is complete dogshit?

I certainly wouldn't expect you to respect the same things I do and seriously wouldn't care if you did or not.

To me Chinese Donghua is complete garbage and shares the same respect I have with dogshit.
@ColourWheel if you don't, ok, no one cares

the important part is below:

sodaJar said:
not simply be labelled propaganda
, because 99% of them are not

my point being that the assessment of an animation should be based on its artistic merit, not political context
sodaJarApr 16, 10:39 PM
Apr 17, 12:53 AM

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Mar 2021
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Reply to sodaJar
@ColourWheel if you don't, ok, no one cares

the important part is below:

sodaJar said:
not simply be labelled propaganda
, because 99% of them are not

my point being that the assessment of an animation should be based on its artistic merit, not political context
@sodaJar

That is just your opinion not mine.

If it bothers you so much that some random User like me labels Chinese Donghua as propaganda, go bitch and whine about it to someone who cares.

Dogshit or not, I see any entertainment that is state media as propaganda. That is simply just my own opinion. There is no reason to correct myself to satisfy some random User I don't know and don't care about.
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