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Mar 8, 2022 3:50 PM
#41
argilium said: Phat-Hamburger said: You know what's worse than slavery? The death toll and economic downfall that arises should a civil war break out in Friedonia. And given the threat of nearby countries recently, the vulnerability of the kingdom can lead them to get invaded and would result into more slaves after that. Heck, even if slavery abolition doesn't lead to civil war, that declaration is easy picking for other countries to crusade against Friedonia because they're defying the continent's values or customs, especially because they're not even a part of Humankind Declaration.Didn't think this show could get any more pretentious, but how they portrayed slavery in this episode was honestly so pathetically laughable. Here's "Master Ginger", despite him and his grandfather being literal slave-traders, they're honestly "good guys", lol what?. Slap some sad sappy music and make the slave-trader seem like a "decent guy" and all of a sudden everyone ignores the fact that he's a slave-trader lmao. No matter what your views are, slavery is objectively terrible, this shouldn't even need to be said. This episode just showcases how spineless Souma and the author really are, by appealing to a "centrist" viewpoint of trying to appease everyone so that civil war doesn't break out is pretty despicable when you realise that it's slavery that we're talking about here. Instead of actually growing a pair and abolishing slavery and punishing those who benefitted from this heinous act, he instead tries to reform slavery lmao like what? It's like trying to spray deodorant on a piece of turd, yeah, it might not smell so bad, but at the end of the day it's still a piece of turd. This show is the definition of pretentious bullshit mixed in with cringy scenes whereby if they include some nonsensical quote from Machiavelli's The Prince every now and then it means everything is justified. 😂😂 So Souma being spineless about it makes more sense in context. Human rights or human lives, Souma will pick the latter choice and try to work around on the other. But indeed, the true flaw of the episode is a reliance on an unlikely character like Ginger because writing a character background like that is just too convenient for the plot and the timing. Just woke up, so my thoughts might be all over the place. I understand where you're coming from. The author has written Souma out to be the ultimate pragmatist. To paraphrase you, he may not be able to abolish slavery altogether, and given his situation and the fragility of the state (Friedonia) internally and externally, he doesn't want to risk making any sort of big changes that would risk civil war or an external invasion. That much I understand, but it's the lack of any sort of depth of morality concerning the topic of slavery that I find an issue with. Souma has no issue binding that dragon girl (forgot her name) to a lifetime of slavery/servitude, so he obviously has no issues with slavery from a pragmatist point of view. Case in point, his act of nationalising slavery to regulate the slave trade sets a bad precedent as someone from a more socio-culturally advanced timeline/parallel world, however, I also realise that realistically, emancipation of slaves doesn't just happen overnight, and that his way of nationalising slavery is a form of "humanising" slaves by way of better treatment through regulations and whatnot. What I have an issue with is how fine and dandy everyone is when it concerns slavery. We literally see in this episode the enslaved dragon girl in a maid outfit airing her grievances to Souma of how often she's whipped by the head maid which Souma seems to be okay with, seeing as he enslaved her and all. I also see where you're coming from with the "defying the continent's values or customs", and that cultural relativism most likely has solidified that slavery is ethically fine in their everyday cultural and social norms. However, in this instance, specifically, Friedonia, Souma is incredibly popular with the majority of the population that aren't nobles and they welcome his liberal values. As we've seen time and again, especially this episode, Souma basically has the ability to purge whoever he likes, whenever he likes (the scheming nobles in his courtroom). So in this instance, it would very much be possible for Souma to outright denounce slavery from a moral perspective. He basically has the perfect tool for state propaganda, the daily gemstone broadcasts to straight-up convince the populace, and I don't think the common man would be against the abolition of slavery at all, seeing as they do not directly benefit from it. I doubt that other countries would willingly crusade against Friedonia for this, maybe it might rouse the noble and ruling class because they see it as an affront to their already existing class and power structures, but outright war is shaky at best. The Gran Chaos Empire already sees Souma as a valuable ally, so I think in this case, they would likely reign in and silence the discontents. The main problem is basically how this episode/show tries to put a heartwarming feel to the slave-trade. It starts off by saying slaves are abused in all sorts of manner, then cuts to Ginger, a slave-owner, who for plot convenience is "isn't like other slave-owners" lmao. For an episode that denounces slavery, I would've expected some slave collars being thrown off, but instead we're shown that "not all slave-traders are bad". How convenient that instead of directly addressing the systemic issue of slavery, the author instead just portrays Ginger, a "good" slave-owner as being able to change it from within. Rather than denounce the system that perpetuates the normalisation of slavery, the author just makes it seem like there are "good" and "bad" slave-owners that need to be differentiated. |
Mar 8, 2022 7:59 PM
#42
Phat-Hamburger said: argilium said: Phat-Hamburger said: Didn't think this show could get any more pretentious, but how they portrayed slavery in this episode was honestly so pathetically laughable. Here's "Master Ginger", despite him and his grandfather being literal slave-traders, they're honestly "good guys", lol what?. Slap some sad sappy music and make the slave-trader seem like a "decent guy" and all of a sudden everyone ignores the fact that he's a slave-trader lmao. No matter what your views are, slavery is objectively terrible, this shouldn't even need to be said. This episode just showcases how spineless Souma and the author really are, by appealing to a "centrist" viewpoint of trying to appease everyone so that civil war doesn't break out is pretty despicable when you realise that it's slavery that we're talking about here. Instead of actually growing a pair and abolishing slavery and punishing those who benefitted from this heinous act, he instead tries to reform slavery lmao like what? It's like trying to spray deodorant on a piece of turd, yeah, it might not smell so bad, but at the end of the day it's still a piece of turd. This show is the definition of pretentious bullshit mixed in with cringy scenes whereby if they include some nonsensical quote from Machiavelli's The Prince every now and then it means everything is justified. 😂😂 So Souma being spineless about it makes more sense in context. Human rights or human lives, Souma will pick the latter choice and try to work around on the other. But indeed, the true flaw of the episode is a reliance on an unlikely character like Ginger because writing a character background like that is just too convenient for the plot and the timing. Just woke up, so my thoughts might be all over the place. I understand where you're coming from. The author has written Souma out to be the ultimate pragmatist. To paraphrase you, he may not be able to abolish slavery altogether, and given his situation and the fragility of the state (Friedonia) internally and externally, he doesn't want to risk making any sort of big changes that would risk civil war or an external invasion. That much I understand, but it's the lack of any sort of depth of morality concerning the topic of slavery that I find an issue with. Souma has no issue binding that dragon girl (forgot her name) to a lifetime of slavery/servitude, so he obviously has no issues with slavery from a pragmatist point of view. Case in point, his act of nationalising slavery to regulate the slave trade sets a bad precedent as someone from a more socio-culturally advanced timeline/parallel world, however, I also realise that realistically, emancipation of slaves doesn't just happen overnight, and that his way of nationalising slavery is a form of "humanising" slaves by way of better treatment through regulations and whatnot. What I have an issue with is how fine and dandy everyone is when it concerns slavery. We literally see in this episode the enslaved dragon girl in a maid outfit airing her grievances to Souma of how often she's whipped by the head maid which Souma seems to be okay with, seeing as he enslaved her and all. I also see where you're coming from with the "defying the continent's values or customs", and that cultural relativism most likely has solidified that slavery is ethically fine in their everyday cultural and social norms. However, in this instance, specifically, Friedonia, Souma is incredibly popular with the majority of the population that aren't nobles and they welcome his liberal values. As we've seen time and again, especially this episode, Souma basically has the ability to purge whoever he likes, whenever he likes (the scheming nobles in his courtroom). So in this instance, it would very much be possible for Souma to outright denounce slavery from a moral perspective. He basically has the perfect tool for state propaganda, the daily gemstone broadcasts to straight-up convince the populace, and I don't think the common man would be against the abolition of slavery at all, seeing as they do not directly benefit from it. I doubt that other countries would willingly crusade against Friedonia for this, maybe it might rouse the noble and ruling class because they see it as an affront to their already existing class and power structures, but outright war is shaky at best. The Gran Chaos Empire already sees Souma as a valuable ally, so I think in this case, they would likely reign in and silence the discontents. The main problem is basically how this episode/show tries to put a heartwarming feel to the slave-trade. It starts off by saying slaves are abused in all sorts of manner, then cuts to Ginger, a slave-owner, who for plot convenience is "isn't like other slave-owners" lmao. For an episode that denounces slavery, I would've expected some slave collars being thrown off, but instead we're shown that "not all slave-traders are bad". How convenient that instead of directly addressing the systemic issue of slavery, the author instead just portrays Ginger, a "good" slave-owner as being able to change it from within. Rather than denounce the system that perpetuates the normalisation of slavery, the author just makes it seem like there are "good" and "bad" slave-owners that need to be differentiated. You're asking for a level of writing that's above what this author is capable of. |
Mar 9, 2022 12:31 PM
#43
MugenNoShirayuki said: Phat-Hamburger said: argilium said: Phat-Hamburger said: You know what's worse than slavery? The death toll and economic downfall that arises should a civil war break out in Friedonia. And given the threat of nearby countries recently, the vulnerability of the kingdom can lead them to get invaded and would result into more slaves after that. Heck, even if slavery abolition doesn't lead to civil war, that declaration is easy picking for other countries to crusade against Friedonia because they're defying the continent's values or customs, especially because they're not even a part of Humankind Declaration.Didn't think this show could get any more pretentious, but how they portrayed slavery in this episode was honestly so pathetically laughable. Here's "Master Ginger", despite him and his grandfather being literal slave-traders, they're honestly "good guys", lol what?. Slap some sad sappy music and make the slave-trader seem like a "decent guy" and all of a sudden everyone ignores the fact that he's a slave-trader lmao. No matter what your views are, slavery is objectively terrible, this shouldn't even need to be said. This episode just showcases how spineless Souma and the author really are, by appealing to a "centrist" viewpoint of trying to appease everyone so that civil war doesn't break out is pretty despicable when you realise that it's slavery that we're talking about here. Instead of actually growing a pair and abolishing slavery and punishing those who benefitted from this heinous act, he instead tries to reform slavery lmao like what? It's like trying to spray deodorant on a piece of turd, yeah, it might not smell so bad, but at the end of the day it's still a piece of turd. This show is the definition of pretentious bullshit mixed in with cringy scenes whereby if they include some nonsensical quote from Machiavelli's The Prince every now and then it means everything is justified. 😂😂 So Souma being spineless about it makes more sense in context. Human rights or human lives, Souma will pick the latter choice and try to work around on the other. But indeed, the true flaw of the episode is a reliance on an unlikely character like Ginger because writing a character background like that is just too convenient for the plot and the timing. Just woke up, so my thoughts might be all over the place. I understand where you're coming from. The author has written Souma out to be the ultimate pragmatist. To paraphrase you, he may not be able to abolish slavery altogether, and given his situation and the fragility of the state (Friedonia) internally and externally, he doesn't want to risk making any sort of big changes that would risk civil war or an external invasion. That much I understand, but it's the lack of any sort of depth of morality concerning the topic of slavery that I find an issue with. Souma has no issue binding that dragon girl (forgot her name) to a lifetime of slavery/servitude, so he obviously has no issues with slavery from a pragmatist point of view. Case in point, his act of nationalising slavery to regulate the slave trade sets a bad precedent as someone from a more socio-culturally advanced timeline/parallel world, however, I also realise that realistically, emancipation of slaves doesn't just happen overnight, and that his way of nationalising slavery is a form of "humanising" slaves by way of better treatment through regulations and whatnot. What I have an issue with is how fine and dandy everyone is when it concerns slavery. We literally see in this episode the enslaved dragon girl in a maid outfit airing her grievances to Souma of how often she's whipped by the head maid which Souma seems to be okay with, seeing as he enslaved her and all. I also see where you're coming from with the "defying the continent's values or customs", and that cultural relativism most likely has solidified that slavery is ethically fine in their everyday cultural and social norms. However, in this instance, specifically, Friedonia, Souma is incredibly popular with the majority of the population that aren't nobles and they welcome his liberal values. As we've seen time and again, especially this episode, Souma basically has the ability to purge whoever he likes, whenever he likes (the scheming nobles in his courtroom). So in this instance, it would very much be possible for Souma to outright denounce slavery from a moral perspective. He basically has the perfect tool for state propaganda, the daily gemstone broadcasts to straight-up convince the populace, and I don't think the common man would be against the abolition of slavery at all, seeing as they do not directly benefit from it. I doubt that other countries would willingly crusade against Friedonia for this, maybe it might rouse the noble and ruling class because they see it as an affront to their already existing class and power structures, but outright war is shaky at best. The Gran Chaos Empire already sees Souma as a valuable ally, so I think in this case, they would likely reign in and silence the discontents. The main problem is basically how this episode/show tries to put a heartwarming feel to the slave-trade. It starts off by saying slaves are abused in all sorts of manner, then cuts to Ginger, a slave-owner, who for plot convenience is "isn't like other slave-owners" lmao. For an episode that denounces slavery, I would've expected some slave collars being thrown off, but instead we're shown that "not all slave-traders are bad". How convenient that instead of directly addressing the systemic issue of slavery, the author instead just portrays Ginger, a "good" slave-owner as being able to change it from within. Rather than denounce the system that perpetuates the normalisation of slavery, the author just makes it seem like there are "good" and "bad" slave-owners that need to be differentiated. You're asking for a level of writing that's above what this author is capable of. You right tbh 😭 |
Mar 11, 2022 6:57 PM
#44
cute ship moment right there. Already liking these new cast Ginger having a big impact on traders and San quite smart an advisor. Shrewd how Souma plans to ease Friedonia out of slavery to avoid civil war, and to get more accountants for Raroa, indirectly by job training and controlling how nobles get promoted based on governance. Souma already going for that S & G in esg investing. |
Mar 15, 2022 6:25 AM
#45
Alright, this episode actually quite intriguing, but at the same time its also tickling. Souma solved the lack of employee, helper, for Roroa, and possibly for other division among his circle, by using the slavery, which also mean, skillful slave, and can also be called, modern, corporate slave, on this era. Kek. Even if Souma, or in this case author thought, isn't directly mentioned about that, or i can say with good intention far from that. But, idk, it sounds quite funny, reference, i can say, because its actually relatable. Even Souma himself quote, in the past slavery liberation led war. So how about we introduced a 'more proper' kind of slave for you? Seriously, i had a good smile over this episode.... But anyway, congrats with the promotion boy. From just a little-above of your average slave trader, got a levelling up by fast to becoming a kingdom director of job training center. Dude really become a figure for me, to get a proper promotion. Yeah, lets go, more work! |
Hide and seek is the best offline games on this fatamorgana-called-world-thing. Please comment nicely. I am newbie here. I'm level on mal-badges. View my badges |
Mar 23, 2022 8:00 PM
#47
Yay, end slavery in that world! |
Mar 24, 2022 8:45 PM
#48
Honestly one of the most interesting takes on slavery that I've seen. I don't recall seeing "how can I end this without starting a civil war?" as a plot point before, but more interesting is the solution of socializing the practice. It wouldn't have worked in the US, because any degree of socialism was not an option back then, but under a population more amenable to absolute rule by kings, etc., this is a plausible method! Have the government take over, start imposing regulations on the treatment of slaves, and perhaps this is too modern of an idea, but impose so much red-tape and bureaucracy that hardly anybody wants to deal with the headache of owning slaves. Imagine filing tax returns for every single one of your slaves, for example. And having to deal with inspectors, filling out quarterly paperwork, etc. |
“Money can't buy dere” |
May 7, 2022 8:44 AM
#49
beautiful episode Seabury said: Honestly one of the most interesting takes on slavery that I've seen. I don't recall seeing "how can I end this without starting a civil war?" as a plot point before, but more interesting is the solution of socializing the practice. It wouldn't have worked in the US, because any degree of socialism was not an option back then, but under a population more amenable to absolute rule by kings, etc., this is a plausible method! Have the government take over, start imposing regulations on the treatment of slaves, and perhaps this is too modern of an idea, but impose so much red-tape and bureaucracy that hardly anybody wants to deal with the headache of owning slaves. Imagine filing tax returns for every single one of your slaves, for example. And having to deal with inspectors, filling out quarterly paperwork, etc. i don't want to get into it really and i'm not criticizing you but i'd be careful to try and think of antebellum us in today's lens or that of a fictional land. there was also plenty of socialization back then but there are other unique problems this episode glossed over that i most certainly won't get into but you might want to read a diverse set of views on it or rewatch the episode and consider some unseen costs or complications. i don't think the morality of slavery was even the point of the episode but more about how souma has been creative in recognizing people and uplifting them instead of tearing things down. it was also a deliberately stark contrast after what we've recently like with the royal court. last thing about red tape and taxes. everyone can see through that, and it honestly ends up with more societal cost than just flat out banning and praying for the best. it always, and i mean every single time ever in history and into the future, when used as a social engineering program (and often even when not) creates a class of opportunistic parasites, the dessicated hosts, and a strange class of unintended consequecences. |
May 7, 2022 8:58 AM
#50
Dukino said: I'm sure some people seeing this episode would hate on Ginger simply for being a slave trader, which is a fair point, but a topic like this requires nuance to navigate not black and white views of how things should be. In an ideal world slavery would've be a thing but it exist on that continent and even in Souma own kingdom so Ginger is just a cog in that machine really. He honestly did treat them very well. Giving them clothes, good food, an education, keeping the families together when they were sold, it's commendable how much Ginger helped these people. ah i see you are a sober student of history yourself. we have a comical caricature of what slavery was actually like in the us, mostly proffered by disingenuous "academics" and Hollywood, and the same is true for many issues people think they are learned about today. it is dangerous first and foremost to judge the past through modernity-colored glasses, because you will only ended up doing yourself and your audience and your ancestors an injustice. it is even more dangerous to know and propagate so many facts that just don't have any validity. also for the final time, for those in the back of the class this was not so much an episode on the morality of slavery (although i always love when people talk about "morality" but have never studied philosophy), it was an episode that was deliberately juxtaposed with some of the recent "cruelty" stuff going on. that's why it may have felt odd, out of place. i'm done talking about this slavery nonsense now. |
May 13, 2022 3:29 AM
#51
some ppl before said hes already tyrannical, it seems this EP shut them up :D, yea tyrant's sure want to end slavery lol, its the opposite, also tyrants only think how to fill their own pockets and oppress their ppl/common folk |
May 16, 2022 7:43 AM
#52
That was a great episode. Ginger did what no other slave trader did, was given the slaves and education is the best move and made them valuable as all of them except for San we're sold out. Glad he decided to keep her instead of being sold. Just as he was thinking of starting a new business, Souma offered him one. What a genius move. |
May 24, 2022 3:41 AM
#53
Slavery isn't something that could be abolished by a single command with no consequences. I'm glad the show addresses that instead of making Souma out to be some sort of hero who destroys it and everyone lives happily ever after. I think out of all the isekai anime I watched this one portrayed it the best. Though it's kinda worrying why so many Japanese authors try to incorporate it into their stories. What's so interesting about it? |
Jun 3, 2022 1:42 AM
#54
Jun 29, 2022 4:24 PM
#55
I'm not going to lie, this is probably one of if not my favorite episode so far. It had such a different feeling to it and I loved it. And I'd be lying if I didn't say I was crying. The thought of slavery is just so horrible. Its horrible that it still happens even in 2022. So seeing a Slave owner actually care about his slaves, treat and feed them well, educate them, teach them to read and write and make sure they have good new owners that will treat them well is just so wholesome. Im so glad that even though slavery still must exist in Friedonia that Kazuya is regulating it and vetting people now. |
Aug 23, 2022 3:41 PM
#56
Very different from manga and this anime can't make it interesting that's why I dropped this anime |
“Life is never boring, but some people choose to be bored.” — Wayne Dyer |
Aug 23, 2022 8:55 PM
#57
Mrboringday said: if u not like just stop, u cannot force others to drop this or change their opinion,it is good animeVery different from manga and this anime can't make it interesting that's why I dropped this anime |
Dec 12, 2022 5:55 AM
#58
Oho, so we find a kind slave trader huh. Nice, the new slave trader Ginger Camus is training his slaves to read, write and do the math. That's exactly what Souma has been worried about. Hehe, Souma's policy had people running to Ginger for slaves. Souma visits Ginger to see what kind of person he is. He then funds Ginger's new business — a job training academy. |
Jan 12, 2023 9:08 AM
#59
It seems that Roroa's connections made Souma learn about this trader and educator.. I'm glad that Roroa came out to be nice for Souma as well.. As I was kind of worried.. Well, that's smart.. Not to abolish slaves just from start.. And just leave them on streets.. But to give them jobs, integrate them into society first.. On the other hand, this process can be so slow.. That maybe slaves still won't see the end of their slavery in their lifetime.. |
Jan 26, 2023 2:17 AM
#60
0451 said: well if u make series about medieval times u got to have slavery to make it more realistic Slavery isn't something that could be abolished by a single command with no consequences. I'm glad the show addresses that instead of making Souma out to be some sort of hero who destroys it and everyone lives happily ever after. I think out of all the isekai anime I watched this one portrayed it the best. Though it's kinda worrying why so many Japanese authors try to incorporate it into their stories. What's so interesting about it? |
Apr 8, 2023 10:03 PM
#61
I thought the way the perspective was changed for most of the episode did a good job of creating a bit of a surprise towards the end of the episode. |
May 13, 2023 7:45 AM
#62
Souma the matchmaking machine! Literally all of his actions end up directly or indirectly setting up other people together. That's when he's not picking up a wife himself for *insert reasons*. |
Jun 30, 2023 10:57 PM
#63
Slave trader teaches his slaves and it becomes a sensation. |
Nov 25, 2023 7:55 AM
#64
Nice episode! I didn't think I get to see a whole episode revolutionizing the slavery system. Quite a nice touch to this story. |
It's not that I dislike this genre but... to add unnecessary fan services to/in/for heroines and ultimately destroys her character and personality; their purity tarnished because of it, is the only thing I hope to not happen to them. For that sole purity is my fan service. |
Dec 4, 2023 8:06 PM
#65
This episode felt different to me because of the lack of political argumnts |
Jan 16, 7:52 AM
#66
Jan 16, 7:52 AM
#67
Mar 12, 12:07 PM
#68
Happy end! I like it! |
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