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#1
Sep 23, 4:14 AM
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#2
Sep 23, 4:23 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:

I didnt read the whole paragraph
Personally atleat for me the ending was not a prob
It's pretty predictable and basic
But that doesn't make up for the plot holes in the final arc
Modified by 46stef, Sep 23, 4:26 AM
 
#3
Sep 23, 4:28 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
I COMPLETELY AGREE ON THIS!!
 
#4
Sep 23, 4:28 AM
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46stef said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

I didnt read the whole thing
Personally atleat for me the ending was not a prob
It's pretty predictable and basic
But that doesn't make up for the plot holes in the final arc

The plotholes one is for another discussion thread. People didn't have that much of a problem with the plotholes than with the ending. And i agree the ending was predictable and basic but it's fine. With all the twists we got in the series i think a basic ending is enough which wraps up the story. People for some reason just assumed there's going to be a huge twist or whatever.
 
 
#5
Sep 23, 4:31 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
46stef said:

I didnt read the whole thing
Personally atleat for me the ending was not a prob
It's pretty predictable and basic
But that doesn't make up for the plot holes in the final arc

The plotholes one is for another discussion thread. People didn't have that much of a problem with the plotholes than with the ending. And i agree the ending was predictable and basic but it's fine. With all the twists we got in the series i think a basic ending is enough which wraps up the story. People for some reason just assumed there's going to be a huge twist or whatever.

So we are just going to ignore all the idiocy which was written?
 
#6
Sep 23, 4:33 AM
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46stef said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

The plotholes one is for another discussion thread. People didn't have that much of a problem with the plotholes than with the ending. And i agree the ending was predictable and basic but it's fine. With all the twists we got in the series i think a basic ending is enough which wraps up the story. People for some reason just assumed there's going to be a huge twist or whatever.

So we are just going to ignore all the idiocy which was written?

As i said plotholes are for another discussion... I'm talking about the ending here which is mostly 139. If you wanna discuss the plotholes so badly then just make one thread yourself. I would have done that in the future anyway.
 
#7
Sep 23, 4:35 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
46stef said:

So we are just going to ignore all the idiocy which was written?

As i said plotholes are for another discussion... I'm talking about the ending here which is mostly 139. If you wanna discuss the plotholes so badly then just make ine thread yourself. I would have done that in the future anyway.

Speaking abt the ending
Ending as in the ending is not a problem
It is not bad at all
It wasn't perfect
But it was much better than some other anime endings
But isayama said before writing the ending that he plans on killing all the characters and leaving the plot unfinished
I think I would've been a bit more convinced with that one
 
#8
Sep 23, 4:37 AM

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no they are not, this is a product which the reader consume.
no one is obligated to like something which disappointed you.
 
#9
Sep 23, 4:37 AM

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I am not reading the whole thing my problem with ending is
 
 
Sep 23, 4:38 AM

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armong defender lmao. is this isayama himself?

“eren was always like that!!!1!1!”
yeah if you read with your eyes closed. i’m so sorry your self-insert got 7th in the final popularity poll :(
 
 
Sep 23, 4:42 AM
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46stef said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

As i said plotholes are for another discussion... I'm talking about the ending here which is mostly 139. If you wanna discuss the plotholes so badly then just make ine thread yourself. I would have done that in the future anyway.

Speaking abt the ending
Ending as in the ending is not a problem
It is not bad at all
It wasn't perfect
But it was much better than some other anime endings
But isayama said before writing the ending that he plans on killing all the characters and leaving the plot unfinished
I think I would've been a bit more convinced with that one

I don't know if he really said that and I don't understand why he would make that public if its actually a legit news..but what i heard was that the ending would be sad and yes it was bitter sweet. I basically just wanted to answer to the jokes and one liners that people make like 'eren's character is ruined' bla bla....and regarding the thing you said and if its a legit news then i don't understand how that would have helped the plot anyway. How would Killing off everyone have resolved anything? Like fans ignorantly preach now that it was all for nothing, i feel like the ending you suggested would have made me feel that way.
 
Sep 23, 4:43 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
46stef said:

Speaking abt the ending
Ending as in the ending is not a problem
It is not bad at all
It wasn't perfect
But it was much better than some other anime endings
But isayama said before writing the ending that he plans on killing all the characters and leaving the plot unfinished
I think I would've been a bit more convinced with that one

I don't know if he really said that and I don't understand why he would make that public if its actually a legit news..but what i heard was that the ending would be sad and yes it was bitter sweet. I basically just wanted to answer to the jokes and one liners that people make like 'eren's character is ruined' bla bla....and regarding the thing you said and if its a legit news then i don't understand how that would have helped the plot anyway. How would Killing off everyone have resolved anything? Like fans ignorantly preach now that it was all for nothing, i feel like the ending you suggested would have made me feel that way.

I've heard it from a u tube vid don't know if its legit or not
 
Sep 23, 4:46 AM
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46stef said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

I don't know if he really said that and I don't understand why he would make that public if its actually a legit news..but what i heard was that the ending would be sad and yes it was bitter sweet. I basically just wanted to answer to the jokes and one liners that people make like 'eren's character is ruined' bla bla....and regarding the thing you said and if its a legit news then i don't understand how that would have helped the plot anyway. How would Killing off everyone have resolved anything? Like fans ignorantly preach now that it was all for nothing, i feel like the ending you suggested would have made me feel that way.

I've heard it from a u tube vid don't know if its legit or not

I bet its not and I'm glad he didn't end it that way. Maybe because I don't like open endings. But yeah I respect your opinion. If it had helped the plot in any way maybe i would have liked it.
 
Sep 23, 5:00 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:

I'm noticing the last sentence only now.
The last sentence was gold
 
Sep 23, 5:02 AM
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nolonger25 said:
armong defender lmao. is this isayama himself?

“eren was always like that!!!1!1!”
yeah if you read with your eyes closed. i’m so sorry your self-insert got 7th in the final popularity poll :(

Do you really think eren wanted to do all that he did? He had no choice. What i said was that he was the same eren all along the only difference being he was not so vocal about everything like he used to be before s4. He knew what he had to do and did it by keeping hos emotions in check. He didn't wanna do it but he had to.
 
Sep 23, 5:04 AM
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[quote=46stef message=64474449]
Sam_Ackerman said:

I didnt read the whole paragraph
Personally atleat for me the ending was not a prob
It's pretty predictable and basic
But that doesn't make up for the plot holes in the final arc[/quote ok your opinion but people make hate threads and other stuff
 
Sep 23, 5:05 AM
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My man people need to chill
 
Sep 23, 5:13 AM
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Akitokamisen said:
I am not reading the whole thing my problem with ending is

Imagine having millions of memories from the past and future dancing in your head and then you're asked to have the resolve to do mass genocide and save your people. Would you be able to do it by keeping track of everything. I do agree that dialogue execution could have been better which even isayama admitted to and i think the anime will fix it. And again, Eren's character didn't change...his mind was messed up...and ofcourse his love for mikasa wasn't the main focus of the chapter. Fans just made it the main focus. Lmao to this date their are fans who think eren is a bird. This fanbase is hopeless
 
 
Sep 23, 5:20 AM

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You know what....., You're dam fu**ing RIGHT, I won't say summarised instead you literally defined everything i had in mind but couldn't explain.......THANX


 
Sep 23, 5:28 AM
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Isayama doesn't even respect his own work by pulling so thicc plot armour in the final arc that too with full of plot holes. When there are other masterpiece manga present which are overshadowed by your manga,you can't just do whatever you want,it will be disrespectful to those manga
 
 
Sep 23, 5:30 AM
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Eren crying is a problem.Everyone saw eren crying in ch 131 and everyone liked it cuz it was well executed. Ch 139 wasn't well executed at all
 
Sep 23, 5:33 AM

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Sam_Ackerman said:
Akitokamisen said:
I am not reading the whole thing my problem with ending is

Imagine having millions of memories from the past and future dancing in your head and then you're asked to have the resolve to do mass genocide and save your people. Would you be able to do it by keeping track of everything. I do agree that dialogue execution could have been better which even isayama admitted to and i think the anime will fix it. And again, Eren's character didn't change...his mind was messed up...and ofcourse his love for mikasa wasn't the main focus of the chapter. Fans just made it the main focus. Lmao to this date their are fans who think eren is a bird. This fanbase is hopeless


First it's only memories of around 153-160 (2000 years by 13 years per inheriter) people at best (which is still alot)
First I will definitely not be able to retain my personality since I have weak will power and I am not a fictional character
But eren as shown in chapter 121-123 has monstrous will power (that was literally his strongest weapon)
So I can fully expect him to do so and he is a fictional character

and nope 138-139 they focused on love
Titan curse exited because of Stockholm syndrome (so basically the paradise and eldians are called devils and suffered partly due to a girl who was not able to move on from her love)
Who for some reason in these 2000 years they were no eldiens who was able to move on form
Stockholm syndrome or unconditional love like Mikasa so ymir can do the same

I didn't think anything about the bird
After last pages I was like whatever
 
Sep 23, 5:40 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
yeah...ik people are just shutting on the ending...yeah it is not the best or nowhere near the best...but c'mon the journey is more beautiful than the destination and for me...this was the best journey I ever had...yeah if the ending was a bit better that would have been amazing but nonetheless...it's isayama's story and if that's how he want to end it...I gladly accept :)
 
Sep 23, 5:46 AM

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How much time you got man, writing whole ass novels
I love Monogatari series
 
Sep 23, 5:52 AM
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Akitokamisen said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

Imagine having millions of memories from the past and future dancing in your head and then you're asked to have the resolve to do mass genocide and save your people. Would you be able to do it by keeping track of everything. I do agree that dialogue execution could have been better which even isayama admitted to and i think the anime will fix it. And again, Eren's character didn't change...his mind was messed up...and ofcourse his love for mikasa wasn't the main focus of the chapter. Fans just made it the main focus. Lmao to this date their are fans who think eren is a bird. This fanbase is hopeless


First it's only memories of around 153-160 (2000 years by 13 years per inheriter) people at best (which is still alot)
First I will definitely not be able to retain my personality since I have weak will power and I am not a fictional character
But eren as shown in chapter 121-123 has monstrous will power (that was literally his strongest weapon)
So I can fully expect him to do so and he is a fictional character

and nope 138-139 they focused on love
Titan curse exited because of Stockholm syndrome (so basically the paradise and eldians are called devils and suffered partly due to a girl who was not able to move on from her love)
Who for some reason in these 2000 years they were no eldiens who was able to move on form
Stockholm syndrome or unconditional love like Mikasa so ymir can do the same

I didn't think anything about the bird
After last pages I was like whatever

Ymir waited for 2000 years because she wanted someone to save her because she didn't know much of this world and exactly what love meant? You said you didn't get the reason why she had to wait for 2000 years and some other eldian might have been able to help her. True..but it was not only mikasa moving on from her love that helped her..eren had a role to play as well..eren freed her, accepted her as a human and no god or no slave. And then mikasa did what she did.. both these steps were needed. Other eldians thought of her as a god/slave..eren was the first one to free her of that label and treat her like a human. And mikasa helped her move on.
She was never considered human...so she never knew about aspects of life since she never had a life

Through eren she understands the meaning of freedom
Through armin she understands the meaning of life and death
Through mikasa she understands the meaning of love

All three were required.
But for some reason people only remember the love thing.


Regarding will. Aot was never the typical shounen where will power solved everything. Eren had a strong will, yes...but how strong can it be? How strong is it possible for a human to be mentally? He had a strong will but then with all the other memories of people with different will, different notions, different ideas. Its not gonna be easy. And yes he's a fictional character but aot has always stayed close to reality with its character personas. Just because he's a fictional character doesn't mean its okay for him to do stuffs that are not realistic of a human specifically since its AoT. Yes his powers are supernatural but he himself is a human.
 
 
Sep 23, 5:54 AM
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Lmao this dude completely misinterpreted why people hated the ending and just wasted his time writing a novel that is completely wrong, enjoy watching your train wreck ending
 
Sep 23, 5:54 AM
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aktiwkunn said:
How much time you got man, writing whole ass novels

Why do you care to comment then? Did you not see the essays fans wrote after 139 ranting about how bad the ending was. Compared to that, this is nothing. Probably use your commenting skills over on one of those threads.
 
Sep 23, 5:59 AM
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Seamdaddy said:
Lmao this dude completely misinterpreted why people hated the ending and just wasted his time writing a novel that is completely wrong, enjoy watching your train wreck ending

You must not be familiar with all the one liner jokes that fans made after they thought the ending was trash. All i did here was answering to those lines. First take a deep dive and try to see what fans have been saying all this time. You may have different reasons for not liking the ending that doesn't mean the other's had the same reason. Most had misinterpreted it. If you feel i misinterpreted it then fine but whatever i said lines up perfectly with the story. But yeah my opinion. And yeah i liked the ending. You could suggest a better one.
 
Sep 23, 6:00 AM

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Sam_Ackerman said:
Akitokamisen said:


First it's only memories of around 153-160 (2000 years by 13 years per inheriter) people at best (which is still alot)
First I will definitely not be able to retain my personality since I have weak will power and I am not a fictional character
But eren as shown in chapter 121-123 has monstrous will power (that was literally his strongest weapon)
So I can fully expect him to do so and he is a fictional character

and nope 138-139 they focused on love
Titan curse exited because of Stockholm syndrome (so basically the paradise and eldians are called devils and suffered partly due to a girl who was not able to move on from her love)
Who for some reason in these 2000 years they were no eldiens who was able to move on form
Stockholm syndrome or unconditional love like Mikasa so ymir can do the same

I didn't think anything about the bird
After last pages I was like whatever

Ymir waited for 2000 years because she wanted someone to save her because she didn't know much of this world and exactly what love meant? You said you didn't get the reason why she had to wait for 2000 years and some other eldian might have been able to help her. True..but it was not only mikasa moving on from her love that helped her..eren had a role to play as well..eren freed her, accepted her as a human and no god or no slave. And then mikasa did what she did.. both these steps were needed. Other eldians thought of her as a god/slave..eren was the first one to free her of that label and treat her like a human. And mikasa helped her move on.
She was never considered human...so she never knew about aspects of life since she never had a life

Through eren she understands the meaning of freedom
Through armin she understands the meaning of life and death
Through mikasa she understands the meaning of love

All three were required.
But for some reason people only remember the love thing.


Regarding will. Aot was never the typical shounen where will power solved everything. Eren had a strong will, yes...but how strong can it be? How strong is it possible for a human to be mentally? He had a strong will but then with all the other memories of people with different will, different notions, different ideas. Its not gonna be easy. And yes he's a fictional character but aot has always stayed close to reality with its character personas. Just because he's a fictional character doesn't mean its okay for him to do stuffs that are not realistic of a human specifically since its AoT. Yes his powers are supernatural but he himself is a human.



Okay so how does it make it better

So your saying eren has normal will power okay thank you seems like I was overestimating eren character and Aot story and themes as a whole
No wonder I was disappointed by the ending
Gooodbye have a nice day
 
Sep 23, 6:09 AM

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Sam_Ackerman said:

Do you really think eren wanted to do all that he did? He had no choice. What i said was that he was the same eren all along the only difference being he was not so vocal about everything like he used to be before s4. He knew what he had to do and did it by keeping hos emotions in check. He didn't wanna do it but he had to.


he didn't want to do it, but he resolved himself to doing it. it may have been against his will, but he wasn't sitting around and complaining about it by the end. the ending still makes no sense for his character.

or maybe you're right in that he was the same person all along. because the ending destroyed all development he had received since reaching the basement.
 
Sep 23, 6:10 AM
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Akitokamisen said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

Ymir waited for 2000 years because she wanted someone to save her because she didn't know much of this world and exactly what love meant? You said you didn't get the reason why she had to wait for 2000 years and some other eldian might have been able to help her. True..but it was not only mikasa moving on from her love that helped her..eren had a role to play as well..eren freed her, accepted her as a human and no god or no slave. And then mikasa did what she did.. both these steps were needed. Other eldians thought of her as a god/slave..eren was the first one to free her of that label and treat her like a human. And mikasa helped her move on.
She was never considered human...so she never knew about aspects of life since she never had a life

Through eren she understands the meaning of freedom
Through armin she understands the meaning of life and death
Through mikasa she understands the meaning of love

All three were required.
But for some reason people only remember the love thing.


Regarding will. Aot was never the typical shounen where will power solved everything. Eren had a strong will, yes...but how strong can it be? How strong is it possible for a human to be mentally? He had a strong will but then with all the other memories of people with different will, different notions, different ideas. Its not gonna be easy. And yes he's a fictional character but aot has always stayed close to reality with its character personas. Just because he's a fictional character doesn't mean its okay for him to do stuffs that are not realistic of a human specifically since its AoT. Yes his powers are supernatural but he himself is a human.



Okay so how does it make it better

So your saying eren has normal will power okay thank you seems like I was overestimating eren character and Aot story and themes as a whole
No wonder I was disappointed by the ending
Gooodbye have a nice day

Everyone in aot is a result of their specifc trauma. I never said he had normal will, he had a strong will but not strong enough to surpass what a human being can manage. And to be honest, he just said he didn't know why he did it...but he did it...he killed 80% of humanity which requires immense will. Now if you would have liked aot characters to have normal shounen troupes of badassary in every aspect n all those stuffs then its bettrr you go and watch naruto or dbz. Aot talks about human behaviour and the complexity of a human being.

How does it make it better you ask?
I mentioned all that in my original post. And ofcourse i didn't post it to make people change their opinions, but for them to try to understand what was depicted and not jumping to conclusions. I also mentioned if someone dislikes the ending after understanding the themes and events of the ending then i would respect their opinion. If you are one of them then fine. You didn't like the ending. Peace out
 
 
Sep 23, 6:21 AM
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I personally didn’t like the ending very much but they really liked in Japan, so Isayama is probably in a pretty decent position lol. Our opinion in the west really doesn’t matter that much (some people have a hard time accepting this but it’s the truth).
 
Sep 23, 6:23 AM

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Sam_Ackerman said:
Akitokamisen said:



Okay so how does it make it better

So your saying eren has normal will power okay thank you seems like I was overestimating eren character and Aot story and themes as a whole
No wonder I was disappointed by the ending
Gooodbye have a nice day

Everyone in aot is a result of their specifc trauma. I never said he had normal will, he had a strong will but not strong enough to surpass what a human being can manage. And to be honest, he just said he didn't know why he did it...but he did it...he killed 80% of humanity which requires immense will. Now if you would have liked aot characters to have normal shounen troupes of badassary in every aspect n all those stuffs then its bettrr you go and watch naruto or dbz. Aot talks about human behaviour and the complexity of a human being.

How does it make it better you ask?
I mentioned all that in my original post. And ofcourse i didn't post it to make people change their opinions, but for them to try to understand what was depicted and not jumping to conclusions. I also mentioned if someone dislikes the ending after understanding the themes and events of the ending then i would respect their opinion. If you are one of them then fine. You didn't like the ending. Peace out


I like complexity in human behavior alot (shirou emiya, nagito, Sasuke, lelouch, Gintoki) and I also love character with strong will power who influence the people around them(luffy, rider,Kamina)
I don't like character who are 80%-90% Badass mush (Gojou so far, Levi, Mikasa,)

In my view Eren has adnormal will
Normal human cannot think off eradication of humanity
In my view the ending was not bad but leaning towards it and very disappointing
I hope that anime ending will change my view on it
So yeah thanks for debate had a good time
 
Sep 23, 6:23 AM
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nolonger25 said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

Do you really think eren wanted to do all that he did? He had no choice. What i said was that he was the same eren all along the only difference being he was not so vocal about everything like he used to be before s4. He knew what he had to do and did it by keeping hos emotions in check. He didn't wanna do it but he had to.


he didn't want to do it, but he resolved himself to doing it. it may have been against his will, but he wasn't sitting around and complaining about it by the end. the ending still makes no sense for his character.

or maybe you're right in that he was the same person all along. because the ending destroyed all development he had received since reaching the basement.

Maybe i said it in the wrong way. Yes his character was developed. Of course it was. He wouldn't have possibly done all those things before that he did in the end. What i meant was his whiney side was the same. He was still the teenager who liked mikasa and wanted to lead a normal life with his friends. As for the i dont know why i did that lines he said, again as i mentioned in one of the quotes before, he had millions of memories from.past and future in his head that his mind was messed up.
Try to focus on his main development rather than a few of his flaws. Do you think he would have decided to kill 80% humanity to be free before? NO! His main character development lies into how much eren matured into thinking that if this is what's needed to be done I'll do it. He was not like that before. So what if he cried for mikasa. He still had the will to get the job done and strive for freedom. He put his dream of freedom before his love or a normal life. How does that destroy his development? And to think the author is stupid enough to destroy his own character in a single chapter which he built up till 138.
 
Sep 23, 6:32 AM
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Akitokamisen said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

Everyone in aot is a result of their specifc trauma. I never said he had normal will, he had a strong will but not strong enough to surpass what a human being can manage. And to be honest, he just said he didn't know why he did it...but he did it...he killed 80% of humanity which requires immense will. Now if you would have liked aot characters to have normal shounen troupes of badassary in every aspect n all those stuffs then its bettrr you go and watch naruto or dbz. Aot talks about human behaviour and the complexity of a human being.

How does it make it better you ask?
I mentioned all that in my original post. And ofcourse i didn't post it to make people change their opinions, but for them to try to understand what was depicted and not jumping to conclusions. I also mentioned if someone dislikes the ending after understanding the themes and events of the ending then i would respect their opinion. If you are one of them then fine. You didn't like the ending. Peace out


I like complexity in human behavior alot (shirou emiya, nagito, Sasuke, lelouch, Gintoki) and I also love character with strong will power who influence the people around them(luffy, rider,Kamina)
I don't like character who are 80%-90% Badass mush (Gojou so far, Levi, Mikasa,)

In my view Eren has adnormal will
Normal human cannot think off eradication of humanity
In my view the ending was not bad but leaning towards it and very disappointing
I hope that anime ending will change my view on it
So yeah thanks for debate had a good time

That's what i said...eren was on the line of a normal human and an op character. He had will but didn't want to do it either. Ending actually was basic and nothing special. I felt it was enough to wrap up the story and i also didn't feel that AoT needed the best ending of all time after providing one of the best stories of all time. As for levi and mikasa, I don't like mikasa much since her character was never fleshed out although i do understand rhat ackermans were specifically a bloodline which was designed. So i understand the inhumane capabilities. As for levi, he also has complexity in his character and not as plain as mikasa. I would suggest you to watch Above Will's video on youtube on levi ackerman. I had a change of opinion after watching that. And yeah thanks for the debate. Have a nice day!
 
Sep 23, 6:34 AM

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Sam_Ackerman said:

Maybe i said it in the wrong way. Yes his character was developed. Of course it was. He wouldn't have possibly done all those things before that he did in the end. What i meant was his whiney side was the same. He was still the teenager who liked mikasa and wanted to lead a normal life with his friends. As for the i dont know why i did that lines he said, again as i mentioned in one of the quotes before, he had millions of memories from.past and future in his head that his mind was messed up.
Try to focus on his main development rather than a few of his flaws. Do you think he would have decided to kill 80% humanity to be free before? NO! His main character development lies into how much eren matured into thinking that if this is what's needed to be done I'll do it. He was not like that before. So what if he cried for mikasa. He still had the will to get the job done and strive for freedom. He put his dream of freedom before his love or a normal life. How does that destroy his development? And to think the author is stupid enough to destroy his own character in a single chapter which he built up till 138.


you'd think that his resolve and going so far to kill 80% of the world that hates him wouldn't be undone by his "love" for someone he hadn't shown any romantic interest in up until that point. sure, eren knew mikasa loved him. but why did we have any reason to believe that he felt such strong love for her, that he'd throw everything away and descend from the mountain of corpses that he had built up until then?

he led all of his loyal supporters like floch on as a tongue-in-cheek joke? you can't say he had any development if things didn't actually resolve in the end. i don't care if he purportedly resolved to save everyone, and then fled to his childhood friend once things got tough. he had taken enough steps away from his childish impulses that any step back toward them would be a sign of poor writing. there was likely a point where eren could have turned back, but the destruction he had caused by the time of his defeat was too much to go out with a whimper.
 
Sep 23, 6:36 AM

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Me after seeing the No. of paragraphs:

Anime List: Click here
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Sep 23, 8:30 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
Akitokamisen said:


First it's only memories of around 153-160 (2000 years by 13 years per inheriter) people at best (which is still alot)
First I will definitely not be able to retain my personality since I have weak will power and I am not a fictional character
But eren as shown in chapter 121-123 has monstrous will power (that was literally his strongest weapon)
So I can fully expect him to do so and he is a fictional character

and nope 138-139 they focused on love
Titan curse exited because of Stockholm syndrome (so basically the paradise and eldians are called devils and suffered partly due to a girl who was not able to move on from her love)
Who for some reason in these 2000 years they were no eldiens who was able to move on form
Stockholm syndrome or unconditional love like Mikasa so ymir can do the same

I didn't think anything about the bird
After last pages I was like whatever

Ymir waited for 2000 years because she wanted someone to save her because she didn't know much of this world and exactly what love meant? You said you didn't get the reason why she had to wait for 2000 years and some other eldian might have been able to help her. True..but it was not only mikasa moving on from her love that helped her..eren had a role to play as well..eren freed her, accepted her as a human and no god or no slave. And then mikasa did what she did.. both these steps were needed. Other eldians thought of her as a god/slave..eren was the first one to free her of that label and treat her like a human. And mikasa helped her move on.
She was never considered human...so she never knew about aspects of life since she never had a life

Through eren she understands the meaning of freedom
Through armin she understands the meaning of life and death
Through mikasa she understands the meaning of love

All three were required.
But for some reason people only remember the love thing.


Regarding will. Aot was never the typical shounen where will power solved everything. Eren had a strong will, yes...but how strong can it be? How strong is it possible for a human to be mentally? He had a strong will but then with all the other memories of people with different will, different notions, different ideas. Its not gonna be easy. And yes he's a fictional character but aot has always stayed close to reality with its character personas. Just because he's a fictional character doesn't mean its okay for him to do stuffs that are not realistic of a human specifically since its AoT. Yes his powers are supernatural but he himself is a human.



To @Akitokamisen, chapters 138-139 was more of Eren's personal reflection on his actions, Mikasa's choice and the end result and its effect on the world. Mikasa loving Eren was sure a part of it, but its main focus stayed on choices and reflections. The ending was fitting if you ask me. The way the rumbling progressed indicated the way the story would be wrapped up in the end. I do admit it was kinda predictable, but it did make sense as per the story. I personally am not a fan of Eren, nor do I support killing but I understood why he sacrificed such a massive scale for the sake of his friends. Because it is what he wanted... freedom for himself and the ones he cared for...and tbh, there was no other way. He was aware of his actions and their consequences and yet he had to do it. His quote "Could I ever be forgiven?" best explains his state of mind during the time. Hence he entrusted his friends to pull the trigger after reaching his his complete Founding Titan form at the right moment.
Modified by Deku001, Sep 23, 8:40 AM
 
 
Sep 23, 8:42 AM

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Deku001 said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

Ymir waited for 2000 years because she wanted someone to save her because she didn't know much of this world and exactly what love meant? You said you didn't get the reason why she had to wait for 2000 years and some other eldian might have been able to help her. True..but it was not only mikasa moving on from her love that helped her..eren had a role to play as well..eren freed her, accepted her as a human and no god or no slave. And then mikasa did what she did.. both these steps were needed. Other eldians thought of her as a god/slave..eren was the first one to free her of that label and treat her like a human. And mikasa helped her move on.
She was never considered human...so she never knew about aspects of life since she never had a life

Through eren she understands the meaning of freedom
Through armin she understands the meaning of life and death
Through mikasa she understands the meaning of love

All three were required.
But for some reason people only remember the love thing.


Regarding will. Aot was never the typical shounen where will power solved everything. Eren had a strong will, yes...but how strong can it be? How strong is it possible for a human to be mentally? He had a strong will but then with all the other memories of people with different will, different notions, different ideas. Its not gonna be easy. And yes he's a fictional character but aot has always stayed close to reality with its character personas. Just because he's a fictional character doesn't mean its okay for him to do stuffs that are not realistic of a human specifically since its AoT. Yes his powers are supernatural but he himself is a human.



To @Akitokamisen, chapters 138-139 was more of Eren's personal reflection on his actions, Mikasa's choice and the end result and its effect on the world. Mikasa loving Eren was sure a part of it, but its main focus stayed on choices and reflections. The ending was fitting if you ask me. The way the rumbling progressed indicated the way the story would be wrapped up in the end. I do admit it was kinda predictable, but it did make sense as per the story. I personally am not a fan of Eren, nor do I support killing but I understood why sacrificed such a massive scale for the sake of his friends. Because it is what he wanted... freedom for himself and the ones he cared for. He was aware of his actions and their consequences and yet he had to do it. His quote "Could I ever be forgiven?" best explains his state of mind during the time.


I have no issues with Eren's plan is motives was easily visible in s4 and his rumbling failing also
My issue is how it was stopped and how badly it was executed
As for Eren's personal reflection and choices part wasn't ch 130-131 enough
Well I hope anime does a better job at executing the messages
 
Sep 23, 8:55 AM
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Akitokamisen said:
Deku001 said:



To @Akitokamisen, chapters 138-139 was more of Eren's personal reflection on his actions, Mikasa's choice and the end result and its effect on the world. Mikasa loving Eren was sure a part of it, but its main focus stayed on choices and reflections. The ending was fitting if you ask me. The way the rumbling progressed indicated the way the story would be wrapped up in the end. I do admit it was kinda predictable, but it did make sense as per the story. I personally am not a fan of Eren, nor do I support killing but I understood why sacrificed such a massive scale for the sake of his friends. Because it is what he wanted... freedom for himself and the ones he cared for. He was aware of his actions and their consequences and yet he had to do it. His quote "Could I ever be forgiven?" best explains his state of mind during the time.


I have no issues with Eren's plan is motives was easily visible in s4 and his rumbling failing also
My issue is how it was stopped and how badly it was executed
As for Eren's personal reflection and choices part wasn't ch 130-131 enough
Well I hope anime does a better job at executing the messages


I see. Could you elaborate as to where do you exactly feel the bad execution lies in stopping the rumbling?
 
Sep 23, 9:01 AM

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Loyalty has nothing to do with the relationship between a supplier and the customer. This kind of flawed logic could be used for EA, or Amazon. "Just ignore the bad things, be loyal".
 
Sep 23, 9:01 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
Akitokamisen said:


First it's only memories of around 153-160 (2000 years by 13 years per inheriter) people at best (which is still alot)
First I will definitely not be able to retain my personality since I have weak will power and I am not a fictional character
But eren as shown in chapter 121-123 has monstrous will power (that was literally his strongest weapon)
So I can fully expect him to do so and he is a fictional character

and nope 138-139 they focused on love
Titan curse exited because of Stockholm syndrome (so basically the paradise and eldians are called devils and suffered partly due to a girl who was not able to move on from her love)
Who for some reason in these 2000 years they were no eldiens who was able to move on form
Stockholm syndrome or unconditional love like Mikasa so ymir can do the same

I didn't think anything about the bird
After last pages I was like whatever

Ymir waited for 2000 years because she wanted someone to save her because she didn't know much of this world and exactly what love meant? You said you didn't get the reason why she had to wait for 2000 years and some other eldian might have been able to help her. True..but it was not only mikasa moving on from her love that helped her..eren had a role to play as well..eren freed her, accepted her as a human and no god or no slave. And then mikasa did what she did.. both these steps were needed. Other eldians thought of her as a god/slave..eren was the first one to free her of that label and treat her like a human. And mikasa helped her move on.
She was never considered human...so she never knew about aspects of life since she never had a life

Through eren she understands the meaning of freedom
Through armin she understands the meaning of life and death
Through mikasa she understands the meaning of love

All three were required.
But for some reason people only remember the love thing.


Regarding will. Aot was never the typical shounen where will power solved everything. Eren had a strong will, yes...but how strong can it be? How strong is it possible for a human to be mentally? He had a strong will but then with all the other memories of people with different will, different notions, different ideas. Its not gonna be easy. And yes he's a fictional character but aot has always stayed close to reality with its character personas. Just because he's a fictional character doesn't mean its okay for him to do stuffs that are not realistic of a human specifically since its AoT. Yes his powers are supernatural but he himself is a human.
It is the point man .... Haters aren't getting it ....
 
 
Sep 23, 9:04 AM
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nolonger25 said:
Sam_Ackerman said:

Do you really think eren wanted to do all that he did? He had no choice. What i said was that he was the same eren all along the only difference being he was not so vocal about everything like he used to be before s4. He knew what he had to do and did it by keeping hos emotions in check. He didn't wanna do it but he had to.


he didn't want to do it, but he resolved himself to doing it. it may have been against his will, but he wasn't sitting around and complaining about it by the end. the ending still makes no sense for his character.

or maybe you're right in that he was the same person all along. because the ending destroyed all development he had received since reaching the basement.
Agree with you , boy.
 
Sep 23, 10:25 AM

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the ending was fine, eren's monologues and dialogues with armin in ch 139 were trash, weird and out of character. If you wanna make a cool ending, just stick with what you've got, there's was no need for those shit things to happen. Also, why did the manga told us that
"Even if there's a wide world and stories
beyond the main focus, I don't think it's
necessary to end with the protagonist having
been involved in everything." - Yagi Norihiro


Houseki no Kuni Club

My random anime ramblings blog on MAL
 
Sep 23, 11:36 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:

I feel like a lot of the shit on the ending was for a similar reason that everyone shitted on the Joker movie. They wanted the villain to be a badass, but it turned out that he was just a normal, fragile person
 
Sep 23, 11:42 AM
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Sam_Ackerman said:
46stef said:

I didnt read the whole thing
Personally atleat for me the ending was not a prob
It's pretty predictable and basic
But that doesn't make up for the plot holes in the final arc

The plotholes one is for another discussion thread. People didn't have that much of a problem with the plotholes than with the ending. And i agree the ending was predictable and basic but it's fine. With all the twists we got in the series i think a basic ending is enough which wraps up the story. People for some reason just assumed there's going to be a huge twist or whatever.

Yeah a story doesn’t have to have a complex ending to be a masterpiece tbh it would’ve been more predictable if the ending went the way the fans wanted
 
Sep 24, 9:05 AM
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im not reading that,but basically "WE ALL FANBOY,WE NEED TO ACT LIKE A DUMB BLIND FANBOY,NO CRITICS ALLOWED,AOT IS OBJECTIVELY THE ONLY GOOD THING IN THIS WORLD" its that it??

nah,sorry to hurt ur fanboy fragile heart,if its trash its trash,as simple as that.
 
 
Sep 24, 9:19 AM

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zerokarasu said:
im not reading that,but basically "WE ALL FANBOY,WE NEED TO ACT LIKE A DUMB BLIND FANBOY,NO CRITICS ALLOWED,AOT IS OBJECTIVELY THE ONLY GOOD THING IN THIS WORLD" its that it??

nah,sorry to hurt ur fanboy fragile heart,if its trash its trash,as simple as that.

The first time I agree with you on something.
 
Sep 24, 9:56 AM
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OMG how the mighty have fallen. lmao
 
Sep 24, 12:29 PM
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Akitokamisen said:
I am not reading the whole thing my problem with ending is
well you don't like Ymir's character, here's a thread for you.

Link to the original thread:
https://twitter.com/vincent5126/status/1436939520587419650?s=19

I suggest you to read it there, as it was works a lot better with images and other stuff added.

The thread:

Ymir Fritz - The Lost Girl of Humanity
The one who was never meant to be fully understood
The one who could only find herself when she finally moved forward
The one trapped in a matrix of slavery that sums up the nature of dehumanization in Attack on Titan
A devil, a slave, A God

It is sheer brilliance for Attack on Titan to have its monsters be giants
Norse myth speaks of Armin's sights similar to the Nine Realms
And well you can see why it was also brutally ingenious for Isayama to deconstruct the creation of those Realms
In the butchering of one girl

AoT's history is muddled in so much propaganda, nationalism and limited literacy barely anyone really knows how the story began
Owl says about how we make our gods or devils
Magath says the hero Helos, who saved Marley, was an empty shell
Ymir is the same
The shell of Midgard

When we look at the story of Ymir
We see the true face of Helos
The face of a hero
Of "God"
An empty shell to make the world in anyone's image
Social construction, just as how Odin/Fritz crafted the world/Eldian Empire from a power beyond them
A power from a simple wish
To live

The thing with Helos
Or "God"
Is they are used to bring meaning to a chaos beyond us, that consumes us, to decide whether man lives or dies
But
We decided that was God's role
Not God
I also find it fitting the chapter that talks about God is entitled God. God is born from a wish

The Lost Girl of Humanity was never meant to be fully understood because we never wanted that
We wanted Ymir to be ours
That includes us fans
Will go over my overall thoughts on her writing but it does make sense that we cannot fully know Ymir
Because we never let her be herself

Why was Eren the one to reach to her
While Eren also never fully understood her
He was the first human to see Ymir's humanity
But even then, that was just step 1
To him
She was not a god or a slave
He did not decide who she is
She was just the world and we wanted it to make sense

Speaking of Eren
I observed he and Ymir were the main enigmas of the final arc
Eren was intentionally distant because he was trapped in Paths
Defined as "Chadren" by some but 131 showed us his real self
And "he did not know"
He clearly had no plan
You know who else did not know?

Ymir had no voice
Others spoke for her
She had no eyes
The world defined her gaze
What she heard were the only terms that mattered to her
But that made her a shell that had no identity
No name
She was a scapegoat without freedom
A Helos with the boulder of Eldia's ambition

Essentially, what we have is a girl who was born into this world without the ability to enjoy that freedom
Everyone is born free
But Ymir and Zeke are among some clear examples
Of why we also need a world that cherishes that freedom
Else they become lost, voiceless orphans

Now before anyone rages about this particular comparison
While we understand Grisha's reason for indoctrinating Zeke
He would later realize this was the mistake that destroyed him
He became a monster
The monster is someone who chooses your worth in life
As prey or subject

Zeke and Ymir's identity were formed from subjugation
They defined themselves based on their relations to their paternal masters
So
Zeke hated Grisha
And
Ymir "loved" Fritz for he "gave" her life but used her body to build his empire and the world WE know, the world of her body

It is a concept to think about
Historia herself was defined by her role
Until she broke from that
To live a life she was proud of
Freckles Ymir saved her
A woman who made her choice after others gave her names like her namesake
This was Mikasa to Ymir
To find a life to accept

In 122, she was given her moment to make a choice
Except her concept of freedom was based on Fritz's subjugation
She only knew of "releasing pigs"
To leave the born to the wild
But"animals" take that freedom and eat them
That's why she helped with the Rumbling
For a new pig test

When in reality
What she needed was what Eren's first step gave her
A space to choose
But even then her life world was defined by one thing
The man who stole her freedom
Fritz
There was literally no one else
Hence her love for an oppressor
That was until Mikasa showed freedom

As I said, Mikasa's demonstration was the key to ending her curse
She feared death yet was only be defined by Fritz's will
So if Mikasa could overcome her great love, not so much for an oppressor, but an actual loving guy who became a devil to others
She would be free of her wish

She could only know herself when she moved forward
During that Rumbling
She and Eren were brought to a path based on the construction of their world
The predatory conflict among humans that required that sides be erased
And the end of Paths
Was freedom
Even if it was too late


Now the last section I want to touch on would be my feelings overall about Ymir
What I said so far are what the character represents
In many ways, she is an object because her humanity has never been fully regarded or fully formed
This is a personal matrix of slavery/coloniality

I think in my reflections about this character
I can say she was probably a challenge to properly convey
Isayama's intention with her was clear the moment we saw the Krista/Ymir connection
And I mean Historia and Freckles
They were the link that created one Founder for us later

So the idea of her loving her oppressor was a headscratcher
The point of that was that there was no one else she could love but the one who took her home
Unfortunately, it was narrated by Eren, of all people, the one Mikasa kills later (139 Eren-Armin talk was in the time of 131)

Mentally, it is almost like we refuse to have our main protagonist, the central POV of our story, be related to the worst monster in history
Except we were intentionally distanced from that POV in the timeskip
For the purpose of figuring out and be in pain with all the characters



But another aspect to it is the suddenness of the reveal
There was never a point where there was any hint that she loved Fritz
In her silence, as did everyone in Ymir's life who defined her, we gave voice to voiceless feelings
Did we need a hint or was the point already there

This is what makes Attack on Titan a difficult series and in a somewhat good way
Again, we are constantly challenged by a world that is too cruel to our viewing because we want to escape into fantasy
But AoT is a constant reminder that real life is messy and impossible to control

What is clear is Isayama wanted us to get into the very motion and feeling of these terrible things
We saw the rise of fascism in Floch's Yeagerists
The deconstruction of nationalism and militarism in Uprising
The difficult to compare Eldian-Marleyean conflict
Eren's guilt

In Ymir's case, I once felt that 139 might have ruined her or given the wrong message
But the truth behind the truth for me is
Ymir represents a cruel reality
Maybe similar to how we call children our future
Except Zeke was called that
Children as reasons for why we do wrong

To simplify
Look at the story of Freckles Ymir
It is no coincidence why two Ymirs exist
Freckles was "brought" into a cult to be worshipped
She is "their future"
To her, this was love
A false name, a false life
But she was abandoned
Becoming a devil to those who once "loved" her

To sum up how I feel about Ymir
I'm glad Isayama wrote another difficult character
It was really hard to comprehend until I looked at the layers
I did not need a lot of other viewpoints
This will be an unpopular conclusion but
The extra pages saved her
A lot
So I am thankful

End Of The Thread
 
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