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Zelkiiro said: ssjokg said: Zero doesnt give any info for HF...or UBW. And the VN isnt really needed for the plot itself. The Heaven's Feel movies lean in very, very hard on references to the Fate/Zero anime. The aforementioned Irisviel cameo being one of those references. Also no, the VN is completely needed to understand what's going on in these movies. The layperson might get the general gist, but they're gonna have so many questions once it's over. Getting references and understanding the story are two different things. Zero isnt needed to understand HF. Ilya running to her mother who she has referenced before isnt that great. With this logic the UBW Epilogue needs FHA and Kaleid in order to get Luvia. And please what else? All adaptations of anything need the source material for something but as long as it isnt the story itself it is fine. Anime onlies dont need to know that the gun that appears when Shirou does NLBW is his mental image every time he uses magecraft, they dont need to know how Nine Lives works since even VN readers didnt know the details except that it is a powerful super fast multi hit attack, they dont need to know that Rin went on a trial and was saved by Zelretch, the fact that Einzbern Homunculi share memories etc etc. Would be great if all of that were in the anime adaptations but they absolutely arent needed for the story to make sense. And considering that even after reading the VN, forums of the fanbase are always filled with people asking stuff after reading the VN. Even the VN isnt something that you get everything in one go. There are so many calling this ending in the VN a deus ex machina even tho everything that Ilya and the girls did is something that we have seen either in other works or early in the first route. Kuzuki beating Servants, especially Saber, still is a popular talk because people dont get how that works in the VN. |
| Amazing visuals as always from Ufotable, seriously it can't get any better than this... Story felt a bit lacking tbh, maybe it's only me but Shiro dying for the cause could feel much more compelling. Well it was still a really good watch. 8/10 to the part 3 and 9/10 to the trilogy overall. |
Νεχ ποσσυμ τεχυμ ωιωερε, νεχ σινε τε. |
Zelkiiro said: These movies are incomprehensible gobbledygook To be fair, a decent chunk of Zero (including most of the final 2 episodes) is also "incomprehensible gobbledygook" to the uninitiated. Then again, it's almost like its writer purposely made the work while keeping in mind that those who would experience it are already pretty familiar with the original Fate/Stay Night and all 3 of its routes. Same goes for the HF films. |
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SpencerBagel said: Zelkiiro said: These movies are incomprehensible gobbledygook To be fair, a decent chunk of Zero (including most of the final 2 episodes) is also "incomprehensible gobbledygook" to the uninitiated. Then again, it's almost like its writer purposely made the work while keeping in mind that those who would experience it are already pretty familiar with the original Fate/Stay Night and all 3 of its routes. Same goes for the HF films. I dunno...when Fate/Zero came out, I was the uninitiated, and those final two episodes didn't puzzle me much at all. Everything that was going on was pretty self-explanatory, and the missing information wasn't integral to understanding the plot (e.g. knowing what happened to the Holy Grail in the past is nice to know, but all that mattered was the current nature of the Holy Grail, and its current nature was pretty obvious once we were inside it). |
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Zelkiiro said: so why cant people think just with what HF3 gave them? It is all there, unlike Zero. SpencerBagel said: To be fair, a decent chunk of Zero (including most of the final 2 episodes) is also "incomprehensible gobbledygook" to the uninitiated. Then again, it's almost like its writer purposely made the work while keeping in mind that those who would experience it are already pretty familiar with the original Fate/Stay Night and all 3 of its routes. Same goes for the HF films. I dunno...when Fate/Zero came out, I was the uninitiated, and those final two episodes didn't puzzle me much at all. Everything that was going on was pretty self-explanatory, and the missing information wasn't integral to understanding the plot (e.g. knowing what happened to the Holy Grail in the past is nice to know, but all that mattered was the current nature of the Holy Grail, and its current nature was pretty obvious once we were inside it). |
Zelkiiro said: SpencerBagel said: To be fair, a decent chunk of Zero (including most of the final 2 episodes) is also "incomprehensible gobbledygook" to the uninitiated. Then again, it's almost like its writer purposely made the work while keeping in mind that those who would experience it are already pretty familiar with the original Fate/Stay Night and all 3 of its routes. Same goes for the HF films. I dunno...when Fate/Zero came out, I was the uninitiated, and those final two episodes didn't puzzle me much at all. Everything that was going on was pretty self-explanatory, and the missing information wasn't integral to understanding the plot (e.g. knowing what happened to the Holy Grail in the past is nice to know, but all that mattered was the current nature of the Holy Grail, and its current nature was pretty obvious once we were inside it). Sure, but you are the exception not the norm or else you wouldn't have people still making threads and wanting clarifications about what the hell happened during the final episodes of the show to this day. Besides, lots of the key scenes during the ending would simply be brushed aside and wouldn't be nearly as gratifying and impactful to those who haven't experienced FSN beforehand which includes the likes of Kerry adopting Shirou and Saber looking up at the light after being back on the hill. That's just how prequels work. |
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Zhens said: Laid-back said: Amazing visuals as always from Ufotable, seriously it can't get any better than this... Story felt a bit lacking tbh, maybe it's only me but Shiro dying for the cause could feel much more compelling. Well it was still a really good watch. 8/10 to the part 3 and 9/10 to the trilogy overall. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjwMpR233eY Yeah I heard about the LN HF route normal ending. It's sad but a more "realistic" ending in my opinion. |
Νεχ ποσσυμ τεχυμ ωιωερε, νεχ σινε τε. |
Laid-back said: Yeah I heard about the LN HF route normal ending. It's sad but a more "realistic" ending in my opinion. What is not/less realistic about the true ending ? |
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-Stray said: THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Felt so weird watching a movie where theres vacant seats in between people cause of the whole covid situation but heck. Movie was... ok? I guess... I never played these FS/N games so I have no idea if this was how it went but I dunno.. felt lackluster in a lot of parts... animation was amazing as always but I guess... I was expecting more from Shirou since a lot of people said he's more badass here than UBW so I was expecting some epic shit more than Shirou V Gil but nope... the best fight was definitely Rider V Salter, Shirou was literally just a one time shield and the kill steal dude in the fight lol. Rin V Sakura was pretty damn badass too, Rin be spittin like crazy there but ended up not being as cold hearted as she sounded like when Sakura was throwing a tantrum, she couldnt get herself to stab Sakura in the end. Shirou V Berserker was... anti climactic af, dude literally just said "9 lives bladeworks" or something and did 2 slashes iirc and poof. Felt weird hearing Berserker's voice not being... berserky when he told Shirou "protect her" referring to Ilya, sadly he couldnt keep the promise cause she still ended up.. well... Dont wanna get into details anymore cause thats spoiler according to MAL admins so yeah. Pretty ok movie, not as good as the 1st and 2nd one but thats probably on me for expecting too much. Mod Edit: Thread has been created after the screenings and so this one stays. As of Spoilers; You can post them as this is a Discussion thread to discuss about the movie. Put things that are VN-only and/or not animated in a spoiler-tag. Ok so that's one of the problems with the movie. I do love the movie, but they made a few changes that didn't make it as great as it could have been. For example this scene is absolutely LEGENDARY in the VN becauuse of his monolouge and you can feel Shirou's inner struggle, but they cut down that 2-3 minute monolouge into like a 10 second shot. Another one would be when Shirou stabs Arturia. Right when Shirou was bringing down his blade, all of his memories with Artoria passed before us and Kie nai Omoi starts playing. This made me feel really emotional and I didn't really like how they did it in the movie that much. Don't get me wrong, I still loved the movie quite a bit but yeah it could've been better. |
| Sakura Matou is best girl in all anime and its not even close |
| Just finished the last movie, i'm a bit confused but i admit i never played the original visual novel, however there are so much details that make no sense according to the world building. How is possible that Rider is still in the real world after the Holy Grail War ended? Who provide mana for her? Remember that to maintain Gilgamesh, Kotomine killed tons of people as mana supply. Ilya dissolve to close the gate and destroy the Greater Grail or what? And who is that puppet at the end? Shirou? There is no explanation at all, but as i said before i never played the vn so maybe i'm at loss. Anyway was a great movie, expecially special effects, never expected they also made a side character like Rider so strong, she was always so weak but she was able to beat Dark Saber to the ground. XD |
HunterZer08 said: Fnights said: Just finished the last movie, i'm a bit confused but i admit i never played the original visual novel, however there are so much details that make no sense according to the world building. How is possible that Rider is still in the real world after the Holy Grail War ended? Who provide mana for her? Remember that to maintain Gilgamesh, Kotomine killed tons of people as mana supply. Ilya dissolve to close the gate and destroy the Greater Grail or what? And who is that puppet at the end? Shirou? There is no explanation at all, but as i said before i never played the vn so maybe i'm at loss. Anyway was a great movie, expecially special effects, never expected they also made a side character like Rider so strong, she was always so weak but she was able to beat Dark Saber to the ground. XD Unfortunately, this movie uses the "show, don't tell" method, which means the creator expected the viewers to have already watched the previous routes, Fate and Unlimited Blade Works, plus The Garden of Sinners movies, so every world-building are already explained except for few parts unanimated from the visual novel. 1. "How is possible that Rider is still in the real world after the Holy Grail War ended? Who provide mana for her? Remember that to maintain Gilgamesh, Kotomine killed tons of people as mana supply." If you have watched FSN Unlimited Blade Works OVA: Sunny Day, which is a good end of the route, you'll see Saber is still here because Rin extended her contract with her and she needs Shirou to "boost" her mana to keep Saber alive in this world. In Heaven's Feel true end Sakura still has enormous mana left by the Holy Grail so she can keep Rider in this world. Gilgamesh doesn't need the children from the underground church that Kirei abducted 10 years ago but if he uses many mana he still needs them. 2. "Ilya dissolve to close the gate and destroy the Greater Grail or what? And who is that puppet at the end? Shirou?" Yes, in order to prevent Shirou to destroy the grail by projecting Excalibur, she used the incomplete form of the Third Magic, Heaven's Feel, to materialize Shirou's soul and put it into a temporary container. In the movie, the container is mana residue from Rin's pendant and made his soul become like a sphere-like form and later Sakura and Rin put his soul into a birdcage and they traveled for 2 years to search for a famous puppet master called Aozaki Touko. She is a character from The Garden of Sinners movie and can be seen when Rin and Sakura passed by a red-haired woman in the alley. The doll made by her is 99% (or even 100%) looks like a real human so his soul put into the doll and since magical circuit and memories are located in the soul, not in the body, he can live as usual with his previous memories, even if he trained hard enough he can use his Reality Marble again. If you haven't watched The Garden of Sinners movie yet, I strongly recommend to do so because it enhanced your Nasuverse knowledge in general and it explains that puppet maker, Aozaki Touko. Thank you for the detailed explanation, seems i need to watch the Garden of Sinners movie to understand such parts, i watched only the first and second tv serie. :D |
killudesu said: can i please have a fate where ilya lives please please https://myanimelist.net/anime/10012/Carnival_Phantasm?q=carni&cat=anime |
killudesu said: can i please have a fate where ilya lives please please She lives at the end of the Saber route, which is covered by the 2006 Deen F/SN anime... but of course, i wouldn't be surprised if you didn't watch it; most people don't, unfortunately. |
DoTaku_2002 said: wow overreacting much. They really butchered all of Shirou's fights like that huh. They're just treating Fsn like a random shonen series where the only good thing are the action scenes. Adapting HF into a movie trilogy is a mistake |
GARcher_emiya said: ssjokg said: wow overreacting much. He's right though. Both of shirou's fight scenes got butchered. Really?What part of the Herc fight was butchered?You really needed 8 different slashes to call it good when the whole point of it is that they are 9 almost simultaneous strikes? The build up to it was there as well. And the fight with Kirei wasnt butchered. In fact, now, it was actually a fight,instead of Shirou being a literal punching bag. It was no different from Saber getting tortured by Gil in Zero.Nobody calls that a fight so why would Kirei vs Shirou in the VN be? You can complain about some back and forth dialogue between them missing, but not for the fight itself. I hate how some fans are looking for a VN replacement. |
ssjokg said: Shirou vs Berserker is debatable but Shirou vs Kirei is 1000% butchered. Really?What part of the Herc fight was butchered?You really needed 8 different slashes to call it good when the whole point of it is that they are 9 almost simultaneous strikes? The build up to it was there as well. And the fight with Kirei wasnt butchered. In fact, now, it was actually a fight,instead of Shirou being a literal punching bag. It was no different from Saber getting tortured by Gil in Zero.Nobody calls that a fight so why would Kirei vs Shirou in the VN be? You can complain about some back and forth dialogue between them missing, but not for the fight itself. I hate how some fans are looking for a VN replacement. >now it was actually a fight instead of Shirou being a literal punching bag. While ignoring all canonical context like Kirei factually being the better fighter or Shirou taking hits to the face that should instantly kill him. That alone wouldn't matter but the movie fight ends on a whimper where the fight is already over after Zouken dies. In contrast, the VN expresses the distinction between Shirou/Kirei before Shirou counterattacks. It's an adrenaline rush after seeing Kirei dominate for most of the fight. People can still enjoy the movies interpretation but it's absolutely fallacious to say it wasn't butchered. |
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Emblemz said: ssjokg said: Shirou vs Berserker is debatable but Shirou vs Kirei is 1000% butchered. Really?What part of the Herc fight was butchered?You really needed 8 different slashes to call it good when the whole point of it is that they are 9 almost simultaneous strikes? The build up to it was there as well. And the fight with Kirei wasnt butchered. In fact, now, it was actually a fight,instead of Shirou being a literal punching bag. It was no different from Saber getting tortured by Gil in Zero.Nobody calls that a fight so why would Kirei vs Shirou in the VN be? You can complain about some back and forth dialogue between them missing, but not for the fight itself. I hate how some fans are looking for a VN replacement. >now it was actually a fight instead of Shirou being a literal punching bag. While ignoring all canonical context like Kirei factually being the better fighter or Shirou taking hits to the face that should instantly kill him. That alone wouldn't matter but the movie fight ends on a whimper where the fight is already over after Zouken dies. In contrast, the VN expresses the distinction between Shirou/Kirei before Shirou counterattacks. It's an adrenaline rush after seeing Kirei dominate for most of the fight. People can still enjoy the movies interpretation but it's absolutely fallacious to say it wasn't butchered. Calling it a fight in any way in the VN is also fallacious. There are so many things in the movies that are changed but the moment it is a fight everyone loses the godman minds. Sakura doesnt know how to summon little Shadows and yet they appear on their own in the climax of movie 2. By your logic the scene is 100% butchered. I dont see anyone complaining. Or in the same scene the fact that Sakura is portrayed as a victim of teh Shadow's power instead of the acceptance of that power in the VN. Shirou and Sakura having a talk after he decides to not kill her is removed so that scene in the movie must be 100% butchered. Same for the Kirei fight. Yes it is different from the VN but it isnt bad, except the cut with Zouken's death. I would understand if Shirou was shown clearly winning or if either ended up using magecraft or weapons. But talking about stuff that the movies skipped because they intentionally didnt establish is another thing. It is still two dead men fighting till their life ends. The core is there still there. |
ssjokgJun 23, 2021 2:16 AM
tmprl said: ssjokg said: Calling it a fight in any way in the VN is also fallacious. There are so many things in the movies that are changed but the moment it is a fight everyone loses the godman minds. Sakura doesnt know how to summon little Shadows and yet they appear on their own in the climax of movie 2. By your logic the scene is 100% butchered. I dont see anyone complaining. Or in the same scene the fact that Sakura is portrayed as a victim of teh Shadow's power instead of the acceptance of that power in the VN. Shirou and Sakura having a talk after he decides to not kill her is removed so that scene in the movie must be 100% butchered. Same for the Kirei fight. Yes it is different from the VN but it isnt bad, except the cut with Zouken's death. I would understand if Shirou was shown clearly winning or if either ended up using magecraft or weapons. But talking about stuff that the movies skipped because they intentionally didnt establish is another thing. It is still two dead men fighting till their life ends. The core is there still there. Regardless if the core is still there, you can't deny the reception. Shirou vs Kirei is a critically acclaimed fan favorite of the VN, barely anyone talks about the anime version. I dont know about those "anyones" but I wasnt looking for a replacement for the VN, and those that cry over it for not being like the VN are delusional. Pretty much the ONLY scene that is better than the VN version is Sakura's dream scene. I am not judging the adaptations based on the hype "anyone" has for each and every scene. Did we get the pointless fist fight between two dead men?Yes. I dont care if Shirou HAD to protetc his head like in the VN. I do mind that the part where he rremembers Sakura was cut but I wont call the whole thing butchered for being different but still making sense. |
| It seems to be that, once again, expectations for certain characters or moments has led to a lot of disappointments. I think the problem is that what is seen as important to certain people was not as important to Sudou. Illya, Kirei, etc. So many people who love these characters want their defining moments in HF to be displayed in all their VN glory; but Sudou is not Nasu. Nasu has a certain amount of love for all these characters because he created them - he wanted them all to look glorious at different times. For Sudou, it seems he could only manage that amount of passion for Sakura and her relationship with Shirou - which is why that aspect is a home run even while the rest is not so much. Even still, it is admirable how well he did manage to nail that relationship. It at least shows he has the talent to properly adapt the material he cares about (which is more than you can say for other Fate projects) |
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ssjokg said: I don't think those examples of butchering are at all as prevalent. The core of the fight itself is intact but what of all the nuance. This isn't just a side fight like Lancer vs Assasin. This was the climax of the story and the last fight to leave an impression for viewers of the story. So when you compare what's butchered, you also have to look at the context and importance of the scene in question that received that treatment.tmprl said: Regardless if the core is still there, you can't deny the reception. Shirou vs Kirei is a critically acclaimed fan favorite of the VN, barely anyone talks about the anime version. I dont know about those "anyones" but I wasnt looking for a replacement for the VN, and those that cry over it for not being like the VN are delusional. Pretty much the ONLY scene that is better than the VN version is Sakura's dream scene. I am not judging the adaptations based on the hype "anyone" has for each and every scene. Did we get the pointless fist fight between two dead men?Yes. I dont care if Shirou HAD to protetc his head like in the VN. I do mind that the part where he rremembers Sakura was cut but I wont call the whole thing butchered for being different but still making sense. |
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Emblemz said: I dont know how Shirou getting fucked in an one sided fist fight is supposed to be a good climax. Sure it can leave an impression, not nessecerily a good one.ssjokg said: I don't think those examples of butchering are at all as prevalent. The core of the fight itself is intact but what of all the nuance. This isn't just a side fight like Lancer vs Assasin. This was the climax of the story and the last fight to leave an impression for viewers of the story. So when you compare what's butchered, you also have to look at the context and importance of the scene in question that received that treatment.I dont know about those "anyones" but I wasnt looking for a replacement for the VN, and those that cry over it for not being like the VN are delusional. Pretty much the ONLY scene that is better than the VN version is Sakura's dream scene. I am not judging the adaptations based on the hype "anyone" has for each and every scene. Did we get the pointless fist fight between two dead men?Yes. I dont care if Shirou HAD to protetc his head like in the VN. I do mind that the part where he rremembers Sakura was cut but I wont call the whole thing butchered for being different but still making sense. IF.SOMEHOW. We had the time and capability to make it a monogatari fight full of monologues sure. But even then the meat of it would be in the words they speak not the fight itself. Which is why I dont get why people complain about it. What definitely needed a different execution than what we got was the end.There was no reason to cut to Zouken and then staright AFTER the end of the fight. This is literally the same bullshit Zero did with Saber and Berserker. |
ssjokgJun 25, 2021 2:13 AM
ssjokg said: I think I need to elaborate my point a bit more clearly. The Anime fight didn't HAVE TO retell the VN fight beat by beat. It just needed to at least match it in whatever direction it decided to go with.Emblemz said: I dont know how Shirou getting fucked in an one sided fist fight is supposed to be a good climax. Sure it can leave an impression, not nessecerily a good one.I don't think those examples of butchering are at all as prevalent. The core of the fight itself is intact but what of all the nuance. This isn't just a side fight like Lancer vs Assasin. This was the climax of the story and the last fight to leave an impression for viewers of the story. So when you compare what's butchered, you also have to look at the context and importance of the scene in question that received that treatment. IF.SOMEHOW. We had the time and capability to make it a monogatari fight full of monologues sure. But even then the meat of it would be in the words they speak not the fight itself. Which is why I dont get why people complain about it. What defeintely needed a different execution than what we got was the end.There was no reason to cut to Zouken and then staright AFTER the end of the fight. This is literally the same bullshit Zero did with Saber and Berserker. Shirou having autonomy and not being the underdog in the fight? Totally fine with that. Ultimately though, the anime just casually removes aspects of the fight and then it just... ends. I don't think anyone would call it bad on its own but it's easy to point to blatant example of butchering when it's a climax fight. That's all. |
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Emblemz said: Hmm, other than the end I dont really have issues with it so I cant relate.ssjokg said: I think I need to elaborate my point a bit more clearly. The Anime fight didn't HAVE TO retell the VN fight beat by beat. It just needed to at least match it in whatever direction it decided to go with.I dont know how Shirou getting fucked in an one sided fist fight is supposed to be a good climax. Sure it can leave an impression, not nessecerily a good one. IF.SOMEHOW. We had the time and capability to make it a monogatari fight full of monologues sure. But even then the meat of it would be in the words they speak not the fight itself. Which is why I dont get why people complain about it. What defeintely needed a different execution than what we got was the end.There was no reason to cut to Zouken and then staright AFTER the end of the fight. This is literally the same bullshit Zero did with Saber and Berserker. Shirou having autonomy and not being the underdog in the fight? Totally fine with that. Ultimately though, the anime just casually removes aspects of the fight and then it just... ends. I don't think anyone would call it bad on its own but it's easy to point to blatant example of butchering when it's a climax fight. That's all. |
| Holy crap, this is a masterpiece with top-tier animation. Definitely worthy to give as my first 10/10 rating after 500+ anime that I've watched. |
andrearionaJul 1, 2021 10:15 AM
| Damn, so many epic scenes in 2 hours. The story was tragic yet believable. I can't decide which battle is better: Kotomine vs Shirou or Rider vs Saber! The Sakuga was immaculate. UBW made Shirou too OP yet he suffers consequences here, I feel the tension. HF pretty much ended all the problem Fate Zero set up. The OST sent shivers down my spine. I cried at the Ilya part. What a goddamn great job by Ufotable. 9/10 for the movie. |
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| I've been watching anime for more than a decade now, and there have been popular anime that i disliked, but i could understand why most most people would like it, and understand the score it was given. I really don't understand why this movie has gotten such a high score, and is ranked #31 of every anime in existence on MAL. As an anime only viewer the movie didn't make any sense, most of the time i was wondering what was going on, certain characters get killed and show up again later in the movie, Shiro has plot armor that doesn't make any sense. And at the end of the movie i was wondering what the hell i just experienced. Either i simply didn't understand things, or things just don't make sense or don't get explained. This is the first time in all my years of anime watching, where i just don't understand the hype and score a show/movie was given. |
GrimstarJul 11, 2021 3:05 PM
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Grimstar said: I've been watching anime for more than a decade now, and there have been popular anime that i disliked, but i could understand why most most people would like it, and understand the score it was given. I really don't understand why this movie has gotten such a high score, and is ranked #31 of every anime in existence on MAL. As an anime only viewer the movie didn't make any sense, most of the time i was wondering what was going on, certain characters get killed and show up again later in the movie, Shiro has plot armor that doesn't make any sense. And at the end of the movie i was wondering what the hell i just experienced. Either i simply didn't understand things, or things just don't make sense or don't get explained. This is the first time in all my years of anime watching, where i just don't understand the hype and score this movie was given. 1. production is spectacular 2. there's a lot of the visual novel readers on this site. the scenes in this film only make sense with context from the visual novel |
KamisamaArigatou said: 2. That is incorrect.Grimstar said: I've been watching anime for more than a decade now, and there have been popular anime that i disliked, but i could understand why most most people would like it, and understand the score it was given. I really don't understand why this movie has gotten such a high score, and is ranked #31 of every anime in existence on MAL. As an anime only viewer the movie didn't make any sense, most of the time i was wondering what was going on, certain characters get killed and show up again later in the movie, Shiro has plot armor that doesn't make any sense. And at the end of the movie i was wondering what the hell i just experienced. Either i simply didn't understand things, or things just don't make sense or don't get explained. This is the first time in all my years of anime watching, where i just don't understand the hype and score this movie was given. 1. production is spectacular 2. there's a lot of the visual novel readers on this site. the scenes in this film only make sense with context from the visual novel If it only made sense with the VN then UBW movie would have reached top 100 as well. You dont need the VN to understand the story of the movies. |
| Finally saw this in theaters. I missed the NA premiere a couple months ago cause Covid closed the theater near me. Thank god they decided to have a rescreening, I was waiting for it. It was a great movie, I will say that the pacing feels fast and the lore/story is a little confusing because of it especially if you're watching this after a rather long break. I came back and had to brush on the lore so that all the nagging bits in my head finally clicked. Visually fantastic, SAlter vs Rider was incredible, beams and explosions everywhere, dramatic effects, cuts, soundtrack. What's not to love? If anything, I'd even say they overdid it. XD Rin vs Sakura was my highlight of the movie though, beautiful animation and direction there. When Rin jumps straight at Sakura, unable to stab her, it hit hard. :( I guess my only complaint about Heaven's Feel in general is that I'm not invested enough in Sakura as a character to get the emotions rolling. 8/10 |
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Grimstar said: Bc you're probably just not invested in the story/world. You don't have to read the VN to like it, but the movies clearly require some "Reading between the lines" observations to enjoy it. The more you know about the series, the more enjoyable it becomes. If you're just watching it to kill time or only for the fights, you'll only get a shallow experience. Ofc, I don't think it's perfect either and has objective flaws but I mostly let them pass bc they don't stand out much I've been watching anime for more than a decade now, and there have been popular anime that i disliked, but i could understand why most most people would like it, and understand the score it was given. I really don't understand why this movie has gotten such a high score, and is ranked #31 of every anime in existence on MAL. As an anime only viewer the movie didn't make any sense, most of the time i was wondering what was going on, certain characters get killed and show up again later in the movie, Shiro has plot armor that doesn't make any sense. And at the end of the movie i was wondering what the hell i just experienced. Either i simply didn't understand things, or things just don't make sense or don't get explained. This is the first time in all my years of anime watching, where i just don't understand the hype and score a show/movie was given. |
|
| Sakura is a sad sack of a villain. A womanchild emotional crybaby wreck who is essentially a little girl throwing a tantrum who needs a hug. She is told over and over that she's being a big prima donna, to which she can only respond with emotional outbursts and swinging her fists. She is a villain with godlike power but no agency beyond childish whims, comparable to the baby from Honey I Blew Up The Baby. I was disappointed they went with the "I must save you!" ending. Rin was basically saying aloud all of my thoughts during her confrontation with Sakura, leading me to think "hey, Fate Zero was pretty good and daring, so maybe they'll go for something original" - then Rin lets herself get killed, and that's when I remembered that this is based on a porn game where the win condition of each route is to boink the main girl. So we got the ending where Rin explains how Sakura is slowly starting to recover, leaving me to wonder exactly how someone 'recovers' from being a mass murdering lunatic. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
Haunt-bot said: Sooo, being influenced by the literal devil and having an outburst over 10 years of worm rape, step brother rape, food poisoning and all kind of abuse is being a childish prima donna? So she should get over it? Funny how you claim that you cant recover from being a mass murderer, but apparently you can from being a victim your entire life. Makes sense...Sakura is a sad sack of a villain. A womanchild emotional crybaby wreck who is essentially a little girl throwing a tantrum who needs a hug. She is told over and over that she's being a big prima donna, to which she can only respond with emotional outbursts and swinging her fists. She is a villain with godlike power but no agency beyond childish whims, comparable to the baby from Honey I Blew Up The Baby. I was disappointed they went with the "I must save you!" ending. Rin was basically saying aloud all of my thoughts during her confrontation with Sakura, leading me to think "hey, Fate Zero was pretty good and daring, so maybe they'll go for something original" - then Rin lets herself get killed, and that's when I remembered that this is based on a porn game where the win condition of each route is to boink the main girl. So we got the ending where Rin explains how Sakura is slowly starting to recover, leaving me to wonder exactly how someone 'recovers' from being a mass murdering lunatic. What does an older sister saving her little sister have to do with it being a "porn game"? And yes Zero so daring for recycling FSN's themes, character deaths and plot points. So original. |
Haunt-bot said: Sakura is a sad sack of a villain. A womanchild emotional crybaby wreck who is essentially a little girl throwing a tantrum who needs a hug. She is told over and over that she's being a big prima donna, to which she can only respond with emotional outbursts and swinging her fists. She is a villain with godlike power but no agency beyond childish whims, comparable to the baby from Honey I Blew Up The Baby. I was disappointed they went with the "I must save you!" ending. Rin was basically saying aloud all of my thoughts during her confrontation with Sakura, leading me to think "hey, Fate Zero was pretty good and daring, so maybe they'll go for something original" - then Rin lets herself get killed, and that's when I remembered that this is based on a porn game where the win condition of each route is to boink the main girl. So we got the ending where Rin explains how Sakura is slowly starting to recover, leaving me to wonder exactly how someone 'recovers' from being a mass murdering lunatic. shit take, Fate/Zero is only good for the Gilgamesh and Iskander scenes, you should suppress that abhorrent opinion of yours if you're going to post on a Fate thread |
ssjokg said: Haunt-bot said: Sooo, being influenced by the literal devil and having an outburst over 10 years of worm rape, step brother rape, food poisoning and all kind of abuse is being a childish prima donna? So she should get over it? Funny how you claim that you cant recover from being a mass murderer, but apparently you can from being a victim your entire life. Makes sense...Sakura is a sad sack of a villain. A womanchild emotional crybaby wreck who is essentially a little girl throwing a tantrum who needs a hug. She is told over and over that she's being a big prima donna, to which she can only respond with emotional outbursts and swinging her fists. She is a villain with godlike power but no agency beyond childish whims, comparable to the baby from Honey I Blew Up The Baby. I was disappointed they went with the "I must save you!" ending. Rin was basically saying aloud all of my thoughts during her confrontation with Sakura, leading me to think "hey, Fate Zero was pretty good and daring, so maybe they'll go for something original" - then Rin lets herself get killed, and that's when I remembered that this is based on a porn game where the win condition of each route is to boink the main girl. So we got the ending where Rin explains how Sakura is slowly starting to recover, leaving me to wonder exactly how someone 'recovers' from being a mass murdering lunatic. What does an older sister saving her little sister have to do with it being a "porn game"? And yes Zero so daring for recycling FSN's themes, character deaths and plot points. So original. Yes. It's not even like she just has a delirious hatred for the world; she is cognizant of who the bad guys are (Zoukan and Shinji). She clearly doesn't even want to kill Rin, she's just mad at her as indicated by this line: "That's why I'm trying to kill you! Because you're so standoffish!" (paraquote). If she is truly insane and therefore devoid of responsibility, she wouldn't be aware of what she's doing, which she clearly is. There has to be a point where you give a villain responsibility for their actions, otherwise you are left with a child or an invalid. Sakura's actions as a villain can be summed as "SYMPATHIZE WITH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE", and it makes for an extremely dull conflict because you as a viewer know that all the hero has to do to defuse the situation is give them a hug and tell them they are appreciated. That is the kind of conflict that would not be out of place on an episode of Jeremy Springer. I brought up the porn game thing because this all fits neatly into the ideal of Sakura not being a villain with her own agency so much as being a prize to be conquered and tamed by the player. There is a lot to like in Fate Zero but one of the main reasons I liked in comparison to Fate Stay Night, UBW and HF is that it's the only one out of the bunch that didn't feel like a dating sim. There were no affection points, no tsunderes, no loli head pats, no self insert teenage protagonist, no 'winning' of girls. It took the story in a direction that didn't revolve around Shirou and Shirou's cock. It's not 'edgy', it's just a more mature story. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
Haunt-bot said: ssjokg said: Sooo, being influenced by the literal devil and having an outburst over 10 years of worm rape, step brother rape, food poisoning and all kind of abuse is being a childish prima donna? So she should get over it? Funny how you claim that you cant recover from being a mass murderer, but apparently you can from being a victim your entire life. Makes sense... What does an older sister saving her little sister have to do with it being a "porn game"? And yes Zero so daring for recycling FSN's themes, character deaths and plot points. So original. Yes. It's not even like she just has a delirious hatred for the world; she is cognizant of who the bad guys are (Zoukan and Shinji). She clearly doesn't even want to kill Rin, she's just mad at her as indicated by this line: "That's why I'm trying to kill you! Because you're so standoffish!" (paraquote). If she is truly insane and therefore devoid of responsibility, she wouldn't be aware of what she's doing, which she clearly is. There has to be a point where you give a villain responsibility for their actions, otherwise you are left with a child or an invalid. Sakura's actions as a villain can be summed as "SYMPATHIZE WITH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE", and it makes for an extremely dull conflict because you as a viewer know that all the hero has to do to defuse the situation is give them a hug and tell them they are appreciated. That is the kind of conflict that would not be out of place on an episode of Jeremy Springer. I brought up the porn game thing because this all fits neatly into the ideal of Sakura not being a villain with her own agency so much as being a prize to be conquered and tamed by the player. There is a lot to like in Fate Zero but one of the main reasons I liked in comparison to Fate Stay Night, UBW and HF is that it's the only one out of the bunch that didn't feel like a dating sim. There were no affection points, no tsunderes, no loli head pats, no self insert teenage protagonist, no 'winning' of girls. It took the story in a direction that didn't revolve around Shirou and Shirou's cock. It's not 'edgy', it's just a more mature story. Those feelings are hers yes. But she acts on them because of the grail's influence. She is responsible for her actions but fully blaming her as if no external elements were in play she is also not right. Do you blame Kiritsugu for the Fire? If you watched FSN and you think Shirou is a self insert or that it is about the girls then you are the problem. Yes the guy that blames himself for being alive is a self insert. The guy that wants to be a hero because only this can put a smile on his face while actually dating with his crush doesnt, is a self insert. Meanwhile the manchild that kills his enemies and has edgy cool line isnt a self insert cause he is an adult.The more you know. Zero isnt mature for lacking romance, which it did have with 3 different character pairs, but they were just failing in getting points. FSN isnt less mature for having romance, teenagers or lolis. This is such a stupid and superficial way of looking at both. |
ssjokg said: Haunt-bot said: Yes. It's not even like she just has a delirious hatred for the world; she is cognizant of who the bad guys are (Zoukan and Shinji). She clearly doesn't even want to kill Rin, she's just mad at her as indicated by this line: "That's why I'm trying to kill you! Because you're so standoffish!" (paraquote). If she is truly insane and therefore devoid of responsibility, she wouldn't be aware of what she's doing, which she clearly is. There has to be a point where you give a villain responsibility for their actions, otherwise you are left with a child or an invalid. Sakura's actions as a villain can be summed as "SYMPATHIZE WITH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE", and it makes for an extremely dull conflict because you as a viewer know that all the hero has to do to defuse the situation is give them a hug and tell them they are appreciated. That is the kind of conflict that would not be out of place on an episode of Jeremy Springer. I brought up the porn game thing because this all fits neatly into the ideal of Sakura not being a villain with her own agency so much as being a prize to be conquered and tamed by the player. There is a lot to like in Fate Zero but one of the main reasons I liked in comparison to Fate Stay Night, UBW and HF is that it's the only one out of the bunch that didn't feel like a dating sim. There were no affection points, no tsunderes, no loli head pats, no self insert teenage protagonist, no 'winning' of girls. It took the story in a direction that didn't revolve around Shirou and Shirou's cock. It's not 'edgy', it's just a more mature story. Those feelings are hers yes. But she acts on them because of the grail's influence. She is responsible for her actions but fully blaming her as if no external elements were in play she is also not right. Do you blame Kiritsugu for the Fire? If you watched FSN and you think Shirou is a self insert or that it is about the girls then you are the problem. Yes the guy that blames himself for being alive is a self insert. The guy that wants to be a hero because only this can put a smile on his face while actually dating with his crush doesnt, is a self insert. Meanwhile the manchild that kills his enemies and has edgy cool line isnt a self insert cause he is an adult.The more you know. Zero isnt mature for lacking romance, which it did have with 3 different character pairs, but they were just failing in getting points. FSN isnt less mature for having romance, teenagers or lolis. This is such a stupid and superficial way of looking at both. Part of being a self insert is having Jesus-like flaws. If your flaw is that you are too good for this world and would sacrifice yourself to save others, it's not really a flaw. Everyone wants to be like that. And Shirou's sacrifice is completely negated because he comes back in the end. He has his cake and eats it because that's the Golden Ending reward for maxing out your affection points. And I don't just dislike any anime that has romance, teenagers or lolis, I just feel that in these shows those things (and, really, most of the plot) is done in a way that is extremely pandering to the viewer. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
Haunt-bot said: ssjokg said: Those feelings are hers yes. But she acts on them because of the grail's influence. She is responsible for her actions but fully blaming her as if no external elements were in play she is also not right. Do you blame Kiritsugu for the Fire? If you watched FSN and you think Shirou is a self insert or that it is about the girls then you are the problem. Yes the guy that blames himself for being alive is a self insert. The guy that wants to be a hero because only this can put a smile on his face while actually dating with his crush doesnt, is a self insert. Meanwhile the manchild that kills his enemies and has edgy cool line isnt a self insert cause he is an adult.The more you know. Zero isnt mature for lacking romance, which it did have with 3 different character pairs, but they were just failing in getting points. FSN isnt less mature for having romance, teenagers or lolis. This is such a stupid and superficial way of looking at both. Part of being a self insert is having Jesus-like flaws. If your flaw is that you are too good for this world and would sacrifice yourself to save others, it's not really a flaw. Everyone wants to be like that. And Shirou's sacrifice is completely negated because he comes back in the end. He has his cake and eats it because that's the Golden Ending reward for maxing out your affection points. And I don't just dislike any anime that has romance, teenagers or lolis, I just feel that in these shows those things (and, really, most of the plot) is done in a way that is extremely pandering to the viewer. The series hammers it down that what Shirou is doing isnt right for him or others. No, nobody sane wants to save people because ONLY THAT makes them happy. There is literally a character that is him from another future where his actions only bring more death... for eternity. People want to save others to get famous or because of some sense of justice. Shirou does it because he thinks that's what he should do and the only way to be happy. Shirou's flaw isnt that he would sacrifice himself for others. Every character in the show does that; Rin who is a self proclaimed hedonist, Sakura who is obsessed, Ilya who lacks any sense of moral dilemma, Rider who only cares about Sakura etc. Shirou's flaw is that he is self destructive and that he believes only him should get hurt. Not because of some teachings, not because of some sense of justice but because he was a lucky survivor 10 years ago. Shirou also has no qualms about killing somebody. The first big confrontation with Archer in UBW is when Archer lets Caster go. He tries to kill Shinji because of the barrier in Fate. And of course he doesnt hesitate against Kirei, Gilgamesh,Berserker or Saber. Archer said it right? If he wants to save everyone then he must include his enemies. I dont understand why people seem to think that he tries to be a paragon of virtue when his actions are for self-gratification. There is nothing Jesus-like in that. Also not in the anime, but he thinks of killing Rin , IN HER ROUTE , right after their date, because she would put Taiga in danger. And ofc in HF he lets people die because he cant kill Sakura. Shirou was never a jesus like character. Kiritsugu wanted a world where nobody would cry and it would be an utopia. He has an underage wife, a sex slave/mistress, has "cool" one liners and wins by luck and without using this Servant in the whole war. Why isnt he a Jesus-like self insert? Unlike Shirou, Kiritsugu doesnt have mental health issues. He doesnt save/kill others because it makes him happy, he does it to avoid another repeat of the island incident. I didnt say anything about his sacrifice but considering that Ilya had to die for him then he definitely didnt get the whole cake. The guy that kept trying to die for others in 3 whole routes screams that he wants to live and he gets a heavy price for that. You dont pander the viewer with characters that have flaws that every single other character points out. |
ssjokgJul 30, 2021 8:30 PM
Haunt-bot said: ssjokg said: Those feelings are hers yes. But she acts on them because of the grail's influence. She is responsible for her actions but fully blaming her as if no external elements were in play she is also not right. Do you blame Kiritsugu for the Fire? If you watched FSN and you think Shirou is a self insert or that it is about the girls then you are the problem. Yes the guy that blames himself for being alive is a self insert. The guy that wants to be a hero because only this can put a smile on his face while actually dating with his crush doesnt, is a self insert. Meanwhile the manchild that kills his enemies and has edgy cool line isnt a self insert cause he is an adult.The more you know. Zero isnt mature for lacking romance, which it did have with 3 different character pairs, but they were just failing in getting points. FSN isnt less mature for having romance, teenagers or lolis. This is such a stupid and superficial way of looking at both. Part of being a self insert is having Jesus-like flaws. If your flaw is that you are too good for this world and would sacrifice yourself to save others, it's not really a flaw. Everyone wants to be like that. And Shirou's sacrifice is completely negated because he comes back in the end. He has his cake and eats it because that's the Golden Ending reward for maxing out your affection points. And I don't just dislike any anime that has romance, teenagers or lolis, I just feel that in these shows those things (and, really, most of the plot) is done in a way that is extremely pandering to the viewer. Shirou's a mentally ill sociopath who only saves people because it makes him feel good about himself, not because he actually cares about those people. Learn the characters. k? |
| Shirou sees Shinji. Zouken. Rider saves Shirou. Sakura. Rin is down. Sakura will kill Shirou. Rider saved Shirou. Sakura ordered Rider to protect Shirou. Saber stabbed Rider. Sakura goes with Illya. And that was the end. ufo delivered as expected. Nine Lives Blade Works scene was badass. Aimer delivered on all 3 ED songs as expected. Only thing I didn't really like was Saber's fate because I like her (don't reply to this). Would have rather this be the best selling movie in Japan than KnY. |
| If you see that my post is exactly 1 month old (or more) from when it was posted... Don't waste your time, especially when you want to reply with something petty & insignificant. Assume that I've moved on (because I have). |
| Best of the trilogy by far, but yeah. Anime only watchers are going to be so lost lmao. |
| Solid conclusion to the trilogy, this! As an anime-only, it was obviously difficult to keep up with a few things but I've spent a good while reading posts and explanations to gain a better hold of the story and the conclusion. For starters, I like what the conclusion was aiming for here and I appreciate the fact that they dedicated some time for it plus some glorious shots with the greater cast. It would've been a tad bit too devastating to see Shirou die and never return followed by Sakura just withering away as a result. A shot of Sakura in euphoria or happiness would've sealed the deal completely in my mind but well, can't be too greedy there. Sakura's journey as a whole can be summed up in one word really - tragic. I couldn't help but really feel for her when she started breaking down during the fight with Tohsaka, 11 years is far too cruel and it's almost only natural that she'd exceed the threshold. Shinji and Zouken, no words. Definitely one of the most tragic characters in the medium. Shirou/Rider vs. Dark Saber though, our fill of animation would've been more than satisfied with that. But add to that, the scene of "Can you keep up with me?" during the short Berserket-Shirou battle. Everyone involved in this project, god bless you. I've ran out of superlatives to describe the animation, as you can see xD. Shirou vs. Kotomine. Honestly, the timing for this matchup felt a little off to me. Either they should've put this right before the whole grand series of battles or sometime much earlier than that. While I did like the psychological aspect, the aforementioned issue kind of lessened my impression of it. Not to mention, the conclusion coming down to willpower, yeah it was kind of .. y'know. Illya's sacrifice though, that was sad but without prior experience with the VN, it really did not hit me hard. I don't quite understand how that stopped the greater grail too. But anyways, I'm more curious as to why Shirou couldn't remember her name? Found somewhere that it was because of Archer's arm but that's not really convincing. Also, that sword of Tohsaka's, can't say I fully understood despite the backstory. Aimer and Kajiura Yuki-san back at it to close the curtain of yet another installment of this route, and how fitting it was indeed! "I beg you" might've hit me harder but this was right up there too. All in all, it was indeed a great movie and conclusion to the route in question but I'd be lying if I said I understood everything of it. It was just a tad bit too rushed. Despite that though, just for the amazing experience, I'll award this a solid 8/10. The 2nd movie was the highlight for me by quite a distance purely because of the raw emotions that it managed to stir up. I'll be really sad if Ufotable resigns itself from future Fate projects... @Swagernator Ah right, thanks, that makes a little more sense now. I thought she was just wearing the formal Einzbern clothing there xD. |
_MushiRock11_Aug 28, 2021 12:54 PM
#Anime4Life be my Life Motto! #PrayForKyoAni  |
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