Interfasting said: I'd rather watch new types of stories and characters, if everything after DBZ was shonen and insane powers half of his wouldn't even be here. Not sure what you're getting at. Newer anime are mostly just copy and pasted rehashes of past stuff with minor tweaks no matter what the genre. Lots of modern series are straight up clones just following trends that were proven successful before. If you want more original stories and characters, I'd say looking back in time would be the better idea. |
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| @Johan Well, Kimi no na wa is nowhere near Akira or Redline when it comes to the technical aspects of animation. There's simply more things animated on screen, they're more complex, and more fluid. Probably far below GitS or comparable movies too, wich aren't full 24 fps but with much more complex designs than Kimi no na Wa. And then comes the visual originality, and Kimi no na Wa is like, at the bottom of the list when it comes to that. Very generic artstyle to animate some more highschoolers. |
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Johan said: Deathko said: @Johan I can but I suspect you'll just curl up in a ball, shove your fingers in your ears and throw a tantrum. Wanna try? I suspect i've watched more anime on a single friday night than you ever will in your entire life. But sure i'll play with you :) I’m pretty sure watching 48 days worth of anime in one night is impossible |
| Other reason people don't watch older anime is no one talking about them and no one care about them so why a typical anime fan should watch them? Well, I don't watch older anime because I get disappointed of popular ones but that doesn't mean I completely neglect them but I prefer newer anime and prioritize them |
| this is such a bland topic to get fired up about but I'm grateful to everyone who did |
[url=https://myanimelist.net/profile/mifti] [/url] |
Blarey said: Johan said: I suspect i've watched more anime on a single friday night than you ever will in your entire life. But sure i'll play with you :) I’m pretty sure watching 48 days worth of anime in one night is impossible Well clearly anime keeps the mind young, because he's more known for boasting about his days spent watching than for his mature behavior. @Psajdak if both are images from the anime, I must say I prefer the older ones. More shades, more detailed lineart. Do you guys hate black outlines that much? I'm under the impression lots of you see the more recent one as better simply because it looks less like something you can draw on paper >.> |
DeathkoFeb 9, 2019 11:49 AM
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| I think that most of good anime made in "old" tv format need reboots. Just look at Captain Tsubasa 2018, it's same story, it fits current TV standards, you can watch it in Full HD on wide, large screen and still have same fun like when watching original anime from '80s. But there is other side od coin. Reboot can also be done in bad way... like Netflix is doin currently with Saint Seiya. This is horrible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNA4E3AuGIk |
| The Young Noble of the Field is currently watching - Diamond no Ace: Act II Misugi-kun is also reading - Kanojo, Okarishimasu |
mifti said: this is such a bland topic to get fired up about but I'm grateful to everyone who did It's cause the active MAL community tries so damn hard to be edgy or different, and sound smart and cool. Its actually sad if you ask me. Check my join date 2010. I been on this site longer than any single person who's posted in this thread so far. I've seen more anime than any single person in this thread so far. Deathko said: @Johan Well, Kimi no na wa is nowhere near Akira or Redline when it comes to the technical aspects of animation. There's simply more things animated on screen, they're more complex, and more fluid. Probably far below GitS or comparable movies too, wich aren't full 24 fps but with much more complex designs than Kimi no na Wa. And then comes the visual originality, and Kimi no na Wa is like, at the bottom of the list when it comes to that. Very generic artstyle to animate some more highschoolers. This post right here is literally just sophism. I can pretty much say the same thing and reverse the positions of Kimi no na Wa and Redline/Akira. Youre not worth any further rebuttal tbh. Blarey said: Johan said: I suspect i've watched more anime on a single friday night than you ever will in your entire life. But sure i'll play with you :) I’m pretty sure watching 48 days worth of anime in one night is impossible I'm Johan, so i'm not interested in your concept of possible or impossible. :] |
 If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
| No. I think it's purely because of aesthetic reasons. And even at that, often misconceptions. |
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>8790 forum posts >267 Entries completed. Instead of sitting in the forums and propagating your sophist fallacies, go watch some actual anime. |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
2ego said: Strongly arguable. Especially in recent years, the average visual quality took a nosedive. There are a handful of studios which keeps up the high quality, but they are the exception.Nowadays anime have great visuals, it's naturally more visually appealing than old anime, meaning new anime is ALWAYS superior in that one critical aspect. |
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Johan said: >8790 forum posts >267 Entries completed. Instead of sitting in the forums and propagating your sophist fallacies, go watch some actual anime. >235 days watched >not a single argument about animation or artstyle Instead of watching something you don't understand, go learn about animation. That was easy |
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mifti said: Yup. Be watching them fallacies like;this is such a bland topic to get fired up about but I'm grateful to everyone who did lmaooo |
Johan said: Vonice said: Kisejiuu, SSY and Penguindrum are good, maybe fate zero and madoka too. If you think Anohana, Kuroko, Shigatsu and Erased are good.....come on If you don't maybe it's time to find a new hobby tbh. This one ain't it chief Nvm i see you got the holy quadrant of elitism in your favourites. Serial Experiments Lain, Monster, Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyse. Stop infesting the forums, and watch Haibane Renmei or some Yuasa junk so you can add it to your "favourites" so you can show all of MAL how cool and different you are and how "Great" your "taste" is in anime. It's just such an obvious gimmick. Everyone knows there is like a pool of 25 or so anime that fit that kind of criteria. Having nothing but those kind of shows in favorites? Hard to take seriously. Especially when I see that score average. Huge yikes when you watch hundreds of anime and on average find them to be "bad" or "very bad". |
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| I almost forgot that almost every fan of old anime being an asshole doesn't really help promoting them either. Thanks to all the ones in this topic that kindly helped me remind that |
Johan said: If you talk about aesthetics as a whole, than Shinkai is not that impressive. He is good an the technical level, but weak on the artistic. I wouldn't put any of his movies in my top 40, maybe even 50 best looking movie list.What on earth are you talking about? Man I'm legitimately trying to keep calm but name me ONE ova/movie/etc from the 2000s, 90s, 80s, 70s w/e that can aesthetically even be compared to Kimi no na Wa (Your Name), any of Shinkai's movies |
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Chandela said: mifti said: Yup. Be watching them fallacies like;this is such a bland topic to get fired up about but I'm grateful to everyone who did lmaooo JFuji said: Johan said: If you don't maybe it's time to find a new hobby tbh. This one ain't it chief Nvm i see you got the holy quadrant of elitism in your favourites. Serial Experiments Lain, Monster, Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyse. Stop infesting the forums, and watch Haibane Renmei or some Yuasa junk so you can add it to your "favourites" so you can show all of MAL how cool and different you are and how "Great" your "taste" is in anime. It's just such an obvious gimmick. Everyone knows there is like a pool of 25 or so anime that fit that kind of criteria. Having nothing but those kind of shows in favorites? Hard to take seriously. Especially when I see that score average. Huge yikes when you watch hundreds of anime and on average find them to be "bad" or "very bad". LOL i love you two. But truthfully 25 might be too big of a pool. Generally LotGH Monster Mushishi SEL Ergo Proxy Texhnolyse Aria GitS Satoshi Kon film (Perfect Blue / Millenium Actress) Ghibli Movie (Can't be Mononoke or Spirited Away - too mainstream) Yuasa show(s) (Ping Pong, Tatami Galaxy [maybe] Kaiba) Occassionally Ashita no Joe or some other 1980s cartoon might be acceptable, but yeah i don't take people like @Vonice seriously. You can't truthfully. Now i would advise mean score can be misleading. Mine is 5.51 but that's cause I've seen over 700 stand alone shorts - and my avg score for those is ~4.75. But for full length television series, my avg score is 6.56. |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
Johan said: JFuji said: It's just such an obvious gimmick. Everyone knows there is like a pool of 25 or so anime that fit that kind of criteria. Having nothing but those kind of shows in favorites? Hard to take seriously. Especially when I see that score average. Huge yikes when you watch hundreds of anime and on average find them to be "bad" or "very bad". LOL i love you two. But truthfully 25 might be too big of a pool. Generally LotGH Monster Mushishi SEL Ergo Proxy Texhnolyse Aria GitS Satoshi Kon film (Perfect Blue / Millenium Actress) Ghibli Movie (Can't be Mononoke or Spirited Away - too mainstream) Yuasa show(s) (Ping Pong, Tatami Galaxy [maybe] Kaiba) Occassionally Ashita no Joe or some other 1980s cartoon might be acceptable, but yeah i don't take people like @Vonice seriously. You can't truthfully. Now i would advise mean score can be misleading. Mine is 5.51 but that's cause I've seen over 700 stand alone shorts - and my avg score for those is ~4.75. But for full length television series, my avg score is 6.56. How can i take seriously someone roleplaying as an anime character lmao |
vhagar8 said: I almost forgot that almost every fan of old anime being an asshole doesn't really help promoting them either. Thanks to all the ones in this topic that kindly helped me remind that Yeah that's why i fight fire with flamethrowers ;] Heldengeist said: Johan said: If you talk about aesthetics as a whole, than Shinkai is not that impressive. He is good an the technical level, but weak on the artistic. I wouldn't put any of his movies in my top 40, maybe even 50 best looking movie list.What on earth are you talking about? Man I'm legitimately trying to keep calm but name me ONE ova/movie/etc from the 2000s, 90s, 80s, 70s w/e that can aesthetically even be compared to Kimi no na Wa (Your Name), any of Shinkai's movies Yeah well you're the last person i'd want any lists from |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
Vonice said: Johan said: LOL i love you two. But truthfully 25 might be too big of a pool. Generally LotGH Monster Mushishi SEL Ergo Proxy Texhnolyse Aria GitS Satoshi Kon film (Perfect Blue / Millenium Actress) Ghibli Movie (Can't be Mononoke or Spirited Away - too mainstream) Yuasa show(s) (Ping Pong, Tatami Galaxy [maybe] Kaiba) Occassionally Ashita no Joe or some other 1980s cartoon might be acceptable, but yeah i don't take people like @Vonice seriously. You can't truthfully. Now i would advise mean score can be misleading. Mine is 5.51 but that's cause I've seen over 700 stand alone shorts - and my avg score for those is ~4.75. But for full length television series, my avg score is 6.56. How can i take seriously someone roleplaying as an anime character lmao Who's roleplaying in this thread?? |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
When did i mentioned this thread.....I only say that is weird to take seriously someone called johan with a cringe phrase in his profile, it's like taking seriously a 12 years old kid. Edit: afk seeing anime @ me later if you want to say something :s |
Vonice said: When did i mentioned this thread.....I only say that is weird to take seriously someone called johan with a cringe phrase in his profile, it's like taking seriously a 12 years old kid. Edit: afk seeing anime @ me later if you want to say something :s LOL so that qualifies as roleplaying? |
If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ Let him be accursed O Lord, Amen! |
2ego said: Nowadays anime have great visuals, it's naturally more visually appealing than old anime, meaning new anime is ALWAYS superior in that one critical aspect. I disagree. It is just a matter of taste. The 80s and 90s had some incredibly looking shows and mangas like Sailor Moon, Revolutionary Girl Utena or Lady Oscar. |
huntress1013 said: 2ego said: Nowadays anime have great visuals, it's naturally more visually appealing than old anime, meaning new anime is ALWAYS superior in that one critical aspect. I disagree. It is just a matter of taste. The 80s and 90s had some incredibly looking shows and mangas like Sailor Moon, Revolutionary Girl Utena or Lady Oscar. Interesting choices, but I guess in that context it's safe to assume @2ego is talking about the technical aspects and not artstyles; but he's been very vague for someone who makes such a bold statement. I love how he presented it very logically tho. But sadly there's no argument behind Modern anime = great visuals, or behind old anime = poor visuals, so its hrd to see where he comes from. |
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| Mein Gott ! Ich danke dir für dieses Thema ! AshitaNoJonas said: Why watch Macross when you can watch Code Geass instead? I beg you to tell me this was a random creation of your mind and not an example coming from the reality. (the Shenmue example made me laugh though) Skana said: The quality of graphics affects one's enjoyment for a show a lot. Mythologically said: I don't care how good a show's plot or characters are if it doesn't look good. The quality of a drawing has litterally nothing to do with the age in wich it was made... just look at paints from various periods. P1X3LD3M0N said: The reason I don't like old anime is because they are long and drag out stuff. It's a weird reason and I might be wrong but its my opinion Jap;animation has never been made exclusively of 50+eps TVseries. Or only of TV shows for that matter. @cevat24 But Citizen Kane will still be talked about. Because it brought something. Things that are still and will still be relevant in the future (at least in terms of narrative/visual techniques). @Psajdak It simply looks like the two characters got two different charadesigns. (that and the difference in colours thanks to the tones available in real and digital paints) @Deathko Technical aspects were as good as today in some past eras. Comparing th epeak of cell animation works with what is done now with digital makes it easy to see. Also, some things that could be done back then can't now (or not easily), and the opposite is true too. @Johan (Almost?) none of the big animation movies from the 80s has to be ashamed from a comparison to today's doings in terms of visuals... Something as "empty" and simple as Venus Wars will still look very well drawn and animated in later years. (I don't even need to cite Akira to defend this period of time) Nausicaa, Laputa, Char's Counterattack, whatever... (sorry to write to you despite having less han half of your viewings if it hurts you) Also, it's interesting to read your scores: does it mean that you consider short movies as inherently not good? @mhkr Errm, people are still talking (a lot) about movies, animation, books, art in general from previous periods. And this is actually true for sciences too (even when points aren't considered true anymore) and many other things. @vhagar8 We can actually find this kind of thing from both sides. |
Rei_IIIFeb 9, 2019 12:46 PM
Johan said: You are the last person I care if he wants a list or not.Yeah well you're the last person i'd want any lists from Johan said: Did you? You list of completed anime is over twice as long as mine, but your time investment is 2 weeks less. Powering through a thousand 5 minute web shorts and music videos doesn't mean much in terms of experience.I've seen more anime than any single person in this thread so far. |
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2ego said: huntress1013 said: I disagree. It is just a matter of taste. The 80s and 90s had some incredibly looking shows and mangas like Sailor Moon, Revolutionary Girl Utena or Lady Oscar. Objectively new anime is more visually appealing BECAUSE of the quality, there's no debating, you can prefer whichever the fact still stands. Instead of saying "objectively" and "there's no debating", you could tell us why, because it sounds like you just don't really have any argument tbh. Johan said: Did you? You list of completed anime is over twice as long as mine, but your time investment is 2 weeks less. Powering through a thousand 5 minute web shorts and music videos doesn't mean much in terms of experience.I've seen more anime than any single person in this thread so far. @Rei366 I thought about Venus Wars... but I was just taking the bait because it's entertaining. Johan has no arguments, just his inflated ego and too much free time. Don't hope to have a discussion with him, but it's funny to bash him on the head. (^: |
DeathkoFeb 9, 2019 12:34 PM
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Johan said: JFuji said: It's just such an obvious gimmick. Everyone knows there is like a pool of 25 or so anime that fit that kind of criteria. Having nothing but those kind of shows in favorites? Hard to take seriously. Especially when I see that score average. Huge yikes when you watch hundreds of anime and on average find them to be "bad" or "very bad". LOL i love you two. But truthfully 25 might be too big of a pool. Generally LotGH Monster Mushishi SEL Ergo Proxy Texhnolyse Aria GitS Satoshi Kon film (Perfect Blue / Millenium Actress) Ghibli Movie (Can't be Mononoke or Spirited Away - too mainstream) Yuasa show(s) (Ping Pong, Tatami Galaxy [maybe] Kaiba) Occassionally Ashita no Joe or some other 1980s cartoon might be acceptable, but yeah i don't take people like @Vonice seriously. You can't truthfully. Now i would advise mean score can be misleading. Mine is 5.51 but that's cause I've seen over 700 stand alone shorts - and my avg score for those is ~4.75. But for full length television series, my avg score is 6.56. Eh personally I think it's also because of different rating systems. I changed into the rating system I currently have because it was a lot simpler to read and it takes the attention away from the score and more about how I feel about them. You can't quantify an anime into just a score so I just use it as a sort of guideline. Like for me, maybe I need to be more clear on my profile, but a 6/10 is a positive score. It's something I think is pretty good to solidly good and something I had a nice time watching. Many here on this site see 6 as a mediocre score when that's just not true for me. And so when you look at my list, I consider a solid majority of the anime I've watched to be at least good. Hell I consider Apocalypse fucking Zero good because it was entertaining. People, the scores are fucking guidelines and to simplify my opinions like that just makes no sense. So it's kinda sad that people take a look at my mean score and write me off as some stuck up snob. And as for shorts, I really like them actually and I don't get the low scores here on MAL for them. They're like bite-sized treats that can send a chill down my spine or put a smile on my face. Yoru no Hi send a chill down my spine and I disagree with the 4.8 score for example. I've yet to see Monster, Ergo Proxy, Texhnolyze, or Serial Experiments Lain. I thought Haibane Renmei was pretty good but it felt a bit too barren and bare-bones in content for me to care too much. And I thought the pacing was lacking. What are your thoughts on Monster, Ergo Proxy, and Serial Experiments Lain @Johan? And if you think they're pretentious, could you tell me why? |
| Old school anime has a different type of writing and art style that a lot of modern fans aren't used to, so it doesn't really surprised me one bit. I'm pretty sure young fans much rather watch the latest anime trends just so they can be part of the conversation, rather than watch old stuff that barely anyone talks about. Luckily there'll always be folks out there (myself included) who already have a preferences for old anime, and will find the time to watch and appreciated this forgotten shows. I mean just look at the beautiful aesthetic of retro anime: |
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2ego said: Depends on what kind of quality are you talking about. 08TH MS Team is one of the best looking mecha show up to this day and it's nearly 25 years old.Objectively new anime is more visually appealing BECAUSE of the quality, there's no debating, you can prefer whichever the fact still stands. |
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2ego said: Deathko said: Instead of saying "objectively" and "there's no debating", you could tell us why, because it sounds like you just don't really have any argument tbh. Savage. I did... quality. Old anime can of course be better than new anime, but only by having a great story or whatever, the art, animation is superior than old one, if it wasn't we wouldn't get 'modern' art/animation anime. ... No you didn't. I ask "why is it looking better?" and you answer "Because of the quality". Does it sounds like a good argument to you? You could as well say "Because", but that wouldn't be an argument anymore, would it? What makes modern anime "better" visually according to you? @AstZero Because there are new users who need to be asked "why does it look better" (^: |
DeathkoFeb 9, 2019 12:40 PM
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| Why does AD feel the need to answer already answered questions a hundred times over? |
| The beauty of humans is that they say one thing then do another, but at the same time that can also be their ugliest side. |
2ego said: Deathko said: ... No you didn't. I ask "why is it looking better?" and you answer "Because of the quality". Does it sounds like a good argument to you? You could as well say "Because", but that wouldn't be an argument anymore, would it? What makes modern anime "better" visually according to you? Sorry, but that's a stupid question. Go watch a 25 year old anime and then something like Violet Evergarden, you don't need to be a genius to differentiate which has better visuals... No need to get aggressive, cutie, you're the one who made a claim, I'm just asking to understand. Give me an argument, you wouldn't make baseless claims, right? Here:  31yo  19yo  18yo What makes EVERY modern anime OBVIOUSLY better looking than these, no debating? Mythologically said: Anime art has objectively gotten better since, say, the 1980s. Just like with paintings, as new methods of creating anime develop, the quality of anime increases. Another "it's objective, lol you dummy" user. Great. Cool, then give me clear arguments, not some "technology has improved". No, paintings didn't get worse. But did they get better because of technology? Is any webcomic objectively better than a Da Vinci? Any house track better than what classic composers created? Enlighten me. |
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| Choose your poison *shrugs* Older Series: Pros: They probably got more than 13 episodes, censoring was lighter Cons: Fullscreen, grainy, not as many colors, lots of reused animation, mistakes making it into the final version are more common, pacing issues where the plot is dragged out over too many episodes, probably got more than 13 episodes but you wish it didn't after the 100th, that awful 80's/90s hair Newer Series: Pros: Widescreen, More Colors, textures and effects are improved, animation costs less allowing for studios to make more things Cons: Shorter length, you will either get a shitty ending or some lazy open ended "now go read the source for the rest" garbage ending, pacing issues where not enough time is given to the plot, production based on sales of overpriced media determining whether you get a proper adaptation to that awesome series you love 90% of the time you don't, anime costs less allowing for studios to set the bar lower and produce more crap anime, more pointless censoring Either comes with own unique set of problems. However, you can definitely find stories worh watching in both. |
KruszerFeb 9, 2019 12:50 PM
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| @Deathko 2ego said: Sorry, but that's a stupid question. Go watch a 25 year old anime and then something like Violet Evergarden, you don't need to be a genius to differentiate which has better visuals... I just did ! We're in 2019 and Macross Ai oboete imasuka? is 25 years old ! No contest, sorry. (half-joking.) |
| @Rei366 It's okay, we can discuss with 2ego I think, I'm just glad it's not just Johan and his nonsense anymore. |
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Kruszer said: Choose your poison *shrugs* Older Series: Pros: They probably got more than 13 episodes, censoring was lighter Cons: Fullscreen, grainy, not as many colors, lots of reused animation, mistakes making it into the final version are more common, pacing issues where the plot is dragged out over too many episodes, probably got more than 13 episodes but you wish it didn't after the 100th, that awful 80's/90s hair What if you watch the new BD release that many old anime seem to get today? + 80/90's hair was so fluffy, how can you hate it lmao. Modern ones look very basic and boring most of the time.  |
| @DeathKo @Mythologically It looks like you're discussing about the quality of the animations (moving images) rather than about the "arts". Am I wrong? @cevat24 Well, Citizen Kane is still regularly shown in theaters here. And probably once every two years on TVs (for national big channels, more probably on Satellite). @AshitanoJonas Wo bist du? Hidden while the war you started is raging? XD @Nanaya-kun But.. it's a bad example, isn't it a toupee? I'll add the marvelous hairs of Cecily in F91. |
I supposed ur talking about this comment, right? vhagar8 said: I almost forgot that almost every fan of old anime being an asshole doesn't really help promoting them either. Thanks to all the ones in this topic that kindly helped me remind that The thing is, no one is actually asking order fans to watch newer anime tho, honestly I'd be more than happy if a lot of old anime fans would stick to older shows only, since having them around is just straight up toxic. All I'm saying is that "You know the things u like? They're shit, u better get a taste and watch smth good for once" doesn't really encourage people to actually watch those anime. They're likely not to watch them anyway because of how visually bad they may look, still that approach only makes things worse |
vhagar8Feb 9, 2019 1:01 PM
Mythologically said: Deathko said: No need to get aggressive, cutie, you're the one who made a claim, I'm just asking to understand. Give me an argument, you wouldn't make baseless claims, right? Here: [pics] What makes EVERY modern anime OBVIOUSLY better looking than these, no debating? It's definitely a stretch to say that every modern anime's art is better. On the other hand, it's not a stretch to say that on average, modern anime art is better. You've taken examples from Akira and Cowboy Bebop to prove your point here. They do indeed look fantastic, but those are the top tier of the art department for old anime. Sure, they might be better than modern anime that has poor or even medium art. But if you compare them to the top tier of modern anime art? There's barely any competition. Things like Violet Evergarden or Kimi no Na wa. are obviously superior to Cowboy Bebop and Akira in terms of art. There's no such thing as obviously better. But we can try to talk about it, no? Do you want me to go pull out the number of frames in Akira vs the ones in Kimi no na Wa? That'd be the closest thing we could do from being objective. But being full 24 FPS, Akira has a pretty good chance of winning that one. Or we could talk about the variety and complexity of the animation. You wanna go this way? because once again... |
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