| Perfection, as one may define it today, is a sham. Perfection is not "real". It is intangible. It is not a state of being, but merely a description of one. Perfection IS a fantasy. That at least is my impression after reading "A Portrait Study," a piece of greek literature between Lycinus and Polystratus. The two characters are talking about some woman, who is never named. Lycinus can't even put into words how beautiful Aspasia is, but goes on and on about how entrancing her gaze is, and Polystratus calls him out for that shit because "he never even asked for her name" and doesn't actually know who she is. So how does he propose that he describes her? CALL IN THE FUCKING PAINTERS. The dialogue devolves into a discussion about how each individual painter should "describe" each part of her. This is literally no different from some otaku fantasy. Lycinus's aim is not to create an accurate representation of who this woman is, but to embody some experience of "perfection" that he felt when gazing upon her. Perfection is an idealism of reality, an emotionally driven vision of a goal. Look upon the many works of light novellas and anime in which the author attempts to induce some sense of "the perfect character, the perfect waifu, the perfect setting" and see that they are less than that. At least, to you, the viewer. Not the creator. Thus, nothing can BE perfection itself because it is only an idea. Something can only act towards perfection. But what direction is "towards"? If you can accept that perfection is fictitious, then you understand that this idealism only exists from the perspective of the self. In other words, only you, the individual, can give shape to what perfection is. However, this "sense" of perfection is "lost in translation" once it's described to someone else. Not to say that "no one will ever share the same sense of perfection when viewing the same thing," but that a common understanding of perfection does not exist. The idea of objective perfection is flawed. Just something to think about. edit: It's actually not about Aspasia, nevermind |
nep-nepOct 15, 2017 6:44 PM
| how about basic/pure math? 1+1=2 is that perfect enough? lol |
isekai said: how about basic/pure math? 1+1=2 is that perfect enough? lol Maxwell's equations and Langragian formulation are examples of mathematical perfections. |
NudeBear said: isekai said: how about basic/pure math? 1+1=2 is that perfect enough? lol Maxwell's equations and Langragian formulation are examples of mathematical perfections. sounds like physics stuff and that reminds me can math do perfect randomness? sounds like an oxymoron i know |
| Naw I mean just take a compass and draw a circle with it that's like a perfect fucking circle Yeah you could still argue it has minor imperfections, but for all intents and purposes it's mathematically perfect (radius circumference etc.) 'Perfection' can still apply to physical things, because you take their physicality into account for it. So you won't mind the tiny bumps ;) |
| I CELEBRATE myself, And what I assume you shall assume, For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you. |
| Does reality not bending to the will of humanity mean that reality is imperfect? Does a world where life endlessly struggle mean that world is imperfect? Throw away your previous misconceptions about what perfection truly means. If a meteor crashes into our Earth and wipes out all life, or if we take to space travel and colonize the universe, is either truly more perfect than the other? What dictates our importance? There is truly no evil in this world. This world is simply a realm of infinite possibility. That sounds pretty perfect to me. |
| If perfection is fantasy, then is imperfection fantasy too? Honest question here. If you answer yes, then I'll agree with your claim, but otherwise I cannot. |
| "Perfection is an idealism of reality, an emotionally driven vision of a goal. Look upon the many works of light novellas and anime in which the author attempts to induce some sense of "the perfect character, the perfect waifu, the perfect setting" and see that they are less than that." idk i think they can attempt the sense of perfection quite well. Like maybe not for everyone but the attempt can still be there. Because basically all anime characters have the emotionally driven vision of a goal in one way or another... theres no arguing the whole lost in translation deal though, which is why yes it limited to the 'attempt' of the emotionally driven vision of a goal. |
Close this World .txEn eht nepO you are happy 24/7, that is a lie, that is bullshit and i refuse to have somebody tell me bullshit i wanna have an honest  |
| but aside from math that can be considered an abstract idea or just coming from the mind that happens to extend in real life ye the world/universe seems imperfect, everything that bad happens like the truth that life is unfair (no real equality) and problem of evil or murphys law saying everything that can go wrong will go wrong (no absolutes or consistency other than change) are saying there is no such thing as perfection in this world, some people may even say that bad things like death is also proof that there is no perfection but still we got science and technology now to somewhat achieve a little taste of perfection in a world where randomness, bad luck and shit happens so ye we tend to imagine and dream of perfection because we perceive the world as imperfect, thats why religion or believing in a god/savior is so attractive for a lot of people EDIT: i may add that the world still works in pyramid/hierarchy anyway like only few things can reach the top and achieve perfection while the bottom are like what Sturgeons Law said 90% of everything is crap/imperfect, thats why we should be glad we are living in an artificial society where there is social hierarchy still but at least the unfortunate ones like poor or disabled or the imperfect ones are still being taken care of somehow and im part of that |
degOct 15, 2017 11:14 PM
| Perfection only exists in a world where human want them to exist. there is no "universally fully accepted" world/means/perspective, etc. we all live in a box called a "social group" like family group, friends group, workpartner group, interest group, etc. which each of them holds different ideas/perspectives/methods about how or what is real or not real. so, in conclusion, because there is no "universally fully accepted" worlds/means/perspercitves, there is no real "objectivity" in life. it all depend on our interaction within our groups. :) do you think human have two eyes so just we can only see the world? i think there is a meaning for why human have two eyes, first it represent the dualism of the world and second it is a reminder to always look for both side :) |
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| Perfection doesn't exist in my mind at all. I fail at perceiving it. It's a paradox. |
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isekai said: I can argue that basic arithmetic is not "perfection," and that someone who thinks it's perfection has simply assigned a value to it that it wouldn't otherwise embody. To think that "1 + 1" is perfection would be to say that its simplicity and elegance (for example) are an idealism of the concept of perfection. But it is not "perfection" in and of itself. how about basic/pure math? 1+1=2 is that perfect enough? lol As an amendment to my original post though, you really don't have to agree with me on whether anything can "be perfect," what I wrote was more of a tool as to how you can interpret "perfection" grammatically ("Perfection is an adjective, and never a noun"), and how to get a better understanding of perfection as seen through the eyes of another. Xaleyra said: How can you fail to perceive something that you don't think existsPerfection doesn't exist in my mind at all. I fail at perceiving it. It's a paradox. |
Perfection IS a fantasy. Isn't that why it's far better to have 2D waifu wars than 3D waifu wars? No... Just thinking of 3D waifu wars really... Makes it hard to swallow. isekai said: how about basic/pure math? 1+1=2 is that perfect enough? lol I think it is not perfect, but it does satisfy the equation... You can also have 3-1=2 :/ |
| Perfect is just subjective standard. For example if you draw a perfect circle if you look close enough you will see it's not as perfect as it seemed from the fine texture of the paper. |
nep-nep said: isekai said: I can argue that basic arithmetic is not "perfection," and that someone who thinks it's perfection has simply assigned a value to it that it wouldn't otherwise embody.how about basic/pure math? 1+1=2 is that perfect enough? lol i was expecting someone will say that but the value you give to basic math correspond to reality though technology will never work as close to perfection without the use of math for example so mathematical equations/formula that translate directly to reality like technologies can be considered perfection? |
| Of course, perfection is a very subjective concept, for beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
  WORK IN PROGRESS ~The frog leapt forth to my lilypad memory.~ I was indoctrinated by an inamorata rabbit, Adenomata affronted. It was the verecund, dismissed creatures That I jubilated in most. This rabbit I would nurture, At the aiguille of esse, The anneal of noblesse. ❤️ Birdie ❤️ |
isekai said: Math is a system, and objects within the subject of math can be described as "perfect," but only because someone gives them that description. Someone can say "the golden ratio is perfect" and under my grammatical ruling, that makes sense because it's a perceptive judgement. But to say that without human judgement, "math is perfect," would be wrong. nep-nep said: I can argue that basic arithmetic is not "perfection," and that someone who thinks it's perfection has simply assigned a value to it that it wouldn't otherwise embody. i was expecting someone will say that but the value you give to basic math correspond to reality though technology will never work as close to perfection without the use of math for example so mathematical equations/formula that translate directly to reality like technologies can be considered perfection? So basically, math doesn't "grant itself" the attribute of perfection because it's just a system. It's just not inherently "perfect". Perfection is only given meaning when we have an idea of what it looks like. Without this human rendering, perfection does not exist because it's meaningless. Xaleyra said: If you can recognize that it's unimaginable, then you recognize that there is a correct understanding of perfection. Most people will understand the same thing about the philosophical concept of "nothing". Seemingly impossible to describe, but you can tell what isn't "nothing".nep-nep said: How can you fail to perceive something that you don't think exists I think I didn't word it right. I cannot perceive it, it's too unimaginable for me to exist. People can't imagine something with no mistakes, if that explains it. I'm sorry if I sound too illogical, I'm kind of tired. traed said: When God draws a perfect circle, man should ask how God knows it's perfect since a perfect circle doesn't exist. Perfect is just subjective standard. For example if you draw a perfect circle if you look close enough you will see it's not as perfect as it seemed from the fine texture of the paper. |
nep-nep said: traed said: When God draws a perfect circle, man should ask how God knows it's perfect since a perfect circle doesn't exist. Perfect is just subjective standard. For example if you draw a perfect circle if you look close enough you will see it's not as perfect as it seemed from the fine texture of the paper. Even with God it would be just their standard of perfection. Perfection is based on either acceptance of imperfection or a constantly changing goal that is at or beyond ones abilities for any given moment. If we were to say it is not the first but the later this would mean perfection is not a stasis but a process of improving indefinitely |
nep-nep said: isekai said: Math is a system, and objects within the subject of math can be described as "perfect," but only because someone gives them that description. Someone can say "the golden ratio is perfect" and under my grammatical ruling, that makes sense because it's a perceptive judgement. But to say that without human judgement, "math is perfect," would be wrong. i was expecting someone will say that but the value you give to basic math correspond to reality though technology will never work as close to perfection without the use of math for example so mathematical equations/formula that translate directly to reality like technologies can be considered perfection? So basically, math doesn't "grant itself" the attribute of perfection because it's just a system. It's just not inherently "perfect". Perfection is only given meaning when we have an idea of what it looks like. Without this human rendering, perfection does not exist because it's meaningless. oh ok thats like saying anything is meaningless until someone like humans give it meaning #existentialism |
| everything is meaningless #nihilism is what i predict the sure answer to this |
isekai said: No. Existentialism is a different idea. What I said simply means that perfection is a human invention. Without the presence of human judgement, a "thing" cannot be considered perfect because there is no one to give it that judgement of quality. Without human presence, we can still say "a rock is solid," or "the sun is hot" because those are inherent, physical traits. Perfection is an intangible trait that can be interpreted out of something, but it is not inherent to that thing. Just like how you can describe an object as good, evil, bad, faulty, great, or underwhelming. nep-nep said: Math is a system, and objects within the subject of math can be described as "perfect," but only because someone gives them that description. Someone can say "the golden ratio is perfect" and under my grammatical ruling, that makes sense because it's a perceptive judgement. But to say that without human judgement, "math is perfect," would be wrong. So basically, math doesn't "grant itself" the attribute of perfection because it's just a system. It's just not inherently "perfect". Perfection is only given meaning when we have an idea of what it looks like. Without this human rendering, perfection does not exist because it's meaningless. oh ok thats like saying anything is meaningless until someone like humans give it meaning #existentialism |
| You can make it even more simple this way: Let's say we manage to create a perfect something. A tool, an object. Something like that. What color would it have? Each person would preffer a different color. So there would never be an absolute perfect one. |
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| Perfection does not only exists within the mind, it exists outside the mind to and it's called COMMUNISM. |
| @nep-nep after thinking about this more ye you could say that perfection is just a man made concept, i remember one of the universe's fundamental truth symmetry is not perfect too considering that there is more matter than anti-matter so that alone can explain why a lot of things are not balance |
| do you watch rick and morty unironically y/y? |
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| Perfection is a lie if everything was "perfect" nothing new would ever be made we would stay stagnant and eventually die off |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| With self-fulfilling conditional clauses you can will anything perfect. |
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| There are different terms of perfection and most academic subjects have their own way of perfection. One thing is for sure though. In real life there is no perfection, only suffering. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
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