NothingReally said: Ignorant people accuse others of being elitists based on what shows they like these days. Part of that is because people don't know what the word actually means, and part of that is because they have paranoia which causes them to associate certain shows with elitism. You generally dont see fans of moe, ecchi and I'd say gore going around calling anime trash and claiming 2deep4u or w/e is ruining the industry |
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| Go to facebook anime pages and you will see ret.... I mean elitists. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
NothingReally said: EcchiKingMamster said: That doesn't mean you can make up a definition based on your own personal experiences. You generally dont see fans of moe, ecchi and I'd say gore going around calling anime trash and claiming 2deep4u or w/e is ruining the industry "Try to pay attention to the language we all agreed on." - George Carlin While you're not wrong, it's not about the words meaning, it's about the usage I agree that only liking "intellectual" or "2deep4u" or "manly" or "the feels" anime doesn't make you an elitist nor mean you are bothered by other elements in anime But it definitely seems to be those who are the majority cause the instant many of them see anything they consider "pandering" they denoumce it as cheap and claim their show is ruined You just don't really see that from otaku types |
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Nyah_Chan said: It's like algebra... You just gotta break it down... Elitist = (Narcissism - Self Esteem) + (Hate + Gamers Diet) - (-Life - Confidence - Social Skills) **** Elitist also has another meaning **** Just Plain SAD I'm sorry I don't quite agree with your algebra. I mean (narcissism - self esteem) is very hard to calculate . . . Wiki says: "The term originated from Greek mythology, where the young Narcissus fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water." Too much self esteem maybe? :P |
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| @EcchiKingMamster That's not elitism. That's being a snob. There's a difference. And no, neither of them have anything to do with what you like. |
AltoRoark said: @EcchiKingMamster That's not elitism. That's being a snob. There's a difference. And no, neither of them have anything to do with what you like. I know that's not elitism, I'm just saying elitism is or at least seems to be more common with ppl who prioritize those certain elements in anime, which is why ppl who like shows associated with those things are generally targeted NothingReally said: EcchiKingMamster said: Let people determine for themselves then. Don't try to spread that narrative yourself if you're educated enough to know the narrative isn't true. While you're not wrong, it's not about the words meaning, it's about the usage I agree that only liking "intellectual" or "2deep4u" or "manly" or "the feels" anime doesn't make you an elitist nor mean you are bothered by other elements in anime But it definitely seems to be those who are the majority cause the instant many of them see anything they consider "pandering" they denoumce it as cheap and claim their show is ruined You just don't really see that from otaku types I don't I don't call anime trash or claim that one anime is better than another Nor do I ever attack fans for what they like in anime, i attack those ppl (not anime) who I feel attack ppl for what they like |
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EcchiKingMamster said: NothingReally said: That doesn't mean you can make up a definition based on your own personal experiences. "Try to pay attention to the language we all agreed on." - George Carlin While you're not wrong, it's not about the words meaning, it's about the usage I agree that only liking "intellectual" or "2deep4u" or "manly" or "the feels" anime doesn't make you an elitist nor mean you are bothered by other elements in anime But it definitely seems to be those who are the majority cause the instant many of them see anything they consider "pandering" they denoumce it as cheap and claim their show is ruined You just don't really see that from otaku types Elitist is more of an attitude, rather than a set of tastes. It just so happens some anime appeal to a lot of people who have an elitist attitude. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| @EcchiKingMamster I know exactly what you're saying. What I'm saying is that liking few things and calling everything else shit is not elitism. Elitism is the mindset that you're superior to others. Being a snob is being extremely picky with what you watch. |
pondipat said: Nyah_Chan said: It's like algebra... You just gotta break it down... Elitist = (Narcissism - Self Esteem) + (Hate + Gamers Diet) - (-Life - Confidence - Social Skills) **** Elitist also has another meaning **** Just Plain SAD I'm sorry I don't quite agree with your algebra. I mean (narcissism - self esteem) is very hard to calculate . . . Wiki says: "The term originated from Greek mythology, where the young Narcissus fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water." Too much self esteem maybe? :P I have a dad who is diagnosed as a being a narcissist... It's a very sad and miserable existence... One who choses to only look at themselves and destroys all around them from lack of care... That is what it means to be a narcissist... |
| Making a bigger deal out of taste than necessary is probably the way I'd define it. I've got some of these tendencies myself in the sense of probably making a bigger deal out of other ecchi fans than need be, though I try to avoid looking down on outsiders just for being outsiders and want to make it more of an issue of what people say or do. That sort of favor towards other ecchi fans can sort of shine through often, though, so I'd still consider myself somewhat elitist in that really weird, patriotic sense. At least a little bit. Usually what I'd consider the worse kind of elitist is the ones who apply that in a more negative fashion, though, looking down on others for what they seek not falling in line with what the hypothetical elitist would seek. They annoy me. I'm on the side that it's more of a behavior displayed as opposed to anything inherently rooted in likes/dislikes, though, which usually involves attempting to devalue the thoughts of others based on petty or trite things like what's on their favorite. That behavior isn't rooted in taste as much as it is the person just acting like an asshole. |
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TheBrainintheJar said: Elitist is more of an attitude, rather than a set of tastes. It just so happens some anime appeal to a lot of people who have an elitist attitude. that is ALL i was saying AltoRoark said: @EcchiKingMamster I know exactly what you're saying. What I'm saying is that liking few things and calling everything else shit is not elitism. Elitism is the mindset that you're superior to others. Being a snob is being extremely picky with what you watch. if you go around calling certain anime shit, trash, garbage, then you clearly find some anime superior to others elitism is a superiority complex, which is why thats gonna be associated with elitism |
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Nyah_Chan said: pondipat said: I'm sorry I don't quite agree with your algebra. I mean (narcissism - self esteem) is very hard to calculate . . . Wiki says: "The term originated from Greek mythology, where the young Narcissus fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water." Too much self esteem maybe? :P I have a dad who is diagnosed as a being a narcissist... It's a very sad and miserable existence... One who choses to only look at themselves and destroys all around them from lack of care... That is what it means to be a narcissist... Exactly, "only look at themselves" . Ofc is sad, but I don't think it qualifies as lack of self-esteem. Right? My point is: a narcissist minus self-esteem equals impossible. |
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EcchiKingMamster said: AltoRoark said: @EcchiKingMamster I know exactly what you're saying. What I'm saying is that liking few things and calling everything else shit is not elitism. Elitism is the mindset that you're superior to others. Being a snob is being extremely picky with what you watch. if you go around calling certain anime shit, trash, garbage, then you clearly find some anime superior to others elitism is a superiority complex, which is why thats gonna be associated with elitism I think what he's trying to say is that elitism is more rooted in how you treat people around you who are different, and that being that way towards anime itself rather than the people around you is something different i.e. "You have shit taste for liking this anime" is elitist, "this anime is shit and this type of anime is superior" is being a snob somebody could be one or the other, or both, but they're separate things because one involves how you treat people for liking/disliking a type of anime, and the other is about the anime itself Which I think is fair, it feels like more people accept the idea that elitism is a behavior involving treating people like shit for being different than you, so to say somebody who is just really picky is an elitist would be wrong because they can still be a cool person in spite of that and be cool about people liking different things and stuff |
ManabanOct 23, 2017 12:33 PM
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| According to mal, elitism is disliking a lot of popular anime. This definition is entirely incorrect since people have different taste. Actual elitism is thinking yourself superior due to the things you like. It doesn't matter what part of the series makes you think that way. Some people's taste is that they like things with great directing or characters, so it doesn't make someone an elitist to like shows for that. Elitism is entirely a mindset I've been called an elitist before because I don't like certain shows, but I really don't know why. People think that me having Serial Experiments Lain in my favorites and giving low ratings to Fairy Tail, Naruto, Tokyo Ghoul, and Attack on Titan makes me an elitist, but I don't look down on them for liking them. People need to realize that everything regarding art is an opinion and that objectivity in art does not exist, so anybody calling their taste superior is really missing the point of art. There are people who legitimately think Nami is the greatest anime ever. Does this make them a lesser person? Of course not. |
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| Just look at the Attack on Titan fanbase |
NothingReally said: EcchiKingMamster said: I'm not saying you're an elitist. I'm saying that your words have implications. You imply (possibly unwittingly, but I doubt it) that elitism is specific to certain anime, and regardless of tendency, that's a dangerous way to think and spread information. Because it's misinformation. I don't I don't call anime trash or claim that one anime is better than another Nor do I ever attack fans for what they like in anime, i attack those ppl (not anime) who I feel attack ppl for what they like i never implied you did no, I'M NOT saying that... im saying that i understand why others say that, and i dont think its crazy to not be surprised when someone who shit talks others has 2deep4u/acclaimed favorites cause you just dont see people with all example: moe favorites, making threads about how 2deep4u/acclaimed anime are killing the industry but yea, i agree, its not about taste, its about what you think of a persons taste Manaban said: I think what he's trying to say is that elitism is more rooted in how you treat people around you who are different, and that being that way towards anime itself rather than the people around you is something different i.e. "You have shit taste for liking this anime" is elitist, "this anime is shit and this type of anime is superior" is being a snob somebody could be one or the other, or both, but they're separate things because one involves how you treat people for liking/disliking a type of anime, and the other is about the anime itself Which I think is fair, it feels like more people accept the idea that elitism is a behavior involving treating people like shit for being different than you, so to say somebody who is just really picky is an elitist would be wrong because they can still be a cool person in spite of that and be cool about people liking different things and stuff yea i understand what you're/he's saying, but its still gonna come off as condescending to many... so naturally people are gonna feel that someone saying that has an issue with the fact that people like it when you attack what people like, the people who like it are going to feel you're attacking them |
EcchiGodMamsterOct 23, 2017 1:06 PM
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| it's a matter of pride and vanity. i could talk about this subject for hours.  |
NothingReally said: EcchiKingMamster said: Stop. You still don't understand what my main point was. You understand what elitism means. Good. Spread the definition to people asking for it. Don't muddy the waters by bringing up a tendency. You know very well what people will do with that information. They'll take it as a warning sign. That's how all this lack of understanding over the term came about anyways. A new definition was subconsciously created and spread around. And now, more and more people are consciously spreading it. When you claim to understand the actual definition but also bring the fake one into the conversation and rationalize it, you continue to be a part of the problem.i never implied you did no, I'M NOT saying that... im saying that i understand why others say that, and i dont think its crazy to not be surprised when someone who shit talks others has 2deep4u/acclaimed favorites cause you just dont see people with all example: moe favorites, making threads about how 2deep4u/acclaimed anime are killing the industry but yea, i agree, its not about taste, its about what you think of a persons taste when people stop associating people who like moe, and ecchi/fanservice with 100x negative factors then ill stop making the "elitists like this kind of anime" joke you gonna tell them to stop too? |
EcchiGodMamsterOct 23, 2017 3:23 PM
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pondipat said: Nyah_Chan said: I have a dad who is diagnosed as a being a narcissist... It's a very sad and miserable existence... One who choses to only look at themselves and destroys all around them from lack of care... That is what it means to be a narcissist... Exactly, "only look at themselves" . Ofc is sad, but I don't think it qualifies as lack of self-esteem. Right? My point is: a narcissist minus self-esteem equals impossible. Yeah I guess your right... I didn't really get what you were implying at first... I just kinda made that up quickly without much thought so I didn't really notice that |
| Essentially a person who looks down on and insults others for their opinions/tastes while thinking their taste is superior |
Manaban said: EcchiKingMamster said: if you go around calling certain anime shit, trash, garbage, then you clearly find some anime superior to others elitism is a superiority complex, which is why thats gonna be associated with elitism I think what he's trying to say is that elitism is more rooted in how you treat people around you who are different, and that being that way towards anime itself rather than the people around you is something different i.e. "You have shit taste for liking this anime" is elitist, "this anime is shit and this type of anime is superior" is being a snob somebody could be one or the other, or both, but they're separate things because one involves how you treat people for liking/disliking a type of anime, and the other is about the anime itself Which I think is fair, it feels like more people accept the idea that elitism is a behavior involving treating people like shit for being different than you, so to say somebody who is just really picky is an elitist would be wrong because they can still be a cool person in spite of that and be cool about people liking different things and stuff Elitism is an attitude, one of considering others of lesser value because of various reasons. Now, you can think someone as a whole is lesser, or you can think people are lesser in a specific field. These are two kinds of elitism and I'd say the second one is justified. See, if you show me your critical skills aren't very good and you're starting out, I will think less of your critical analysis. I won't think you're a worse person, but only that in this specific field I'd rather get my idea from someone else. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Wait is that really the real term called... |
 "Think about that glowing dust That destroys the night sky's dream of Just being nothing"--  -- |
| Oh well, who exactly revived this thread? |
Bozzzz said: Xaelath said: Elitist. Someone who think they're always right. They think they're high and their taste is should apply to all people in the universe. Instead appreciate something for what they are in multiple perspectives, they will grade everything based on their standard and force it to other people standard and perspective. I think one of the reason why Japanese people doesn't listen or care about outside region other than their own (about anime) was to hinder any ridiculous criticism given by elitist and focus on gaining profit. Well imagine if they saw the MAL "fans" score and critics about the anime they made passionately got no appreciation at all. Nope, Stupid fans also think their taste is superior. Elitist are overly critical and tr to find complex meanings (that might not be there) in anime Well if you said so, I hate both either way... Though i kinda felt guilty myself putting some anime to 3-5 score though i am not really sure how does fair scoring works. To put it simply if you give all anime above 6 regardeless the crap and majority people talk about the anime, people think you have low standards Then if you put most of anime below 5 regardless the praise people think you're being unreasonable aka elitist. Maybe setting a few example Tokyo ghoul , Cant deny the good op, the animation? bad. The adaptation? Rushed, all character that supposed to get a character development cramped into 12 episode and later on the director felt like shitting on source material. Is this being reasonable or being elitist? I cant argue that it is on standard but i gave it like 4/5 score due "The anime felt like an insult to manga", Some said its unfair for most of anime. Well thats not wrong , but that doesnt mean wrong either. Then theres also Rosario Vampire Anime, oh god i realised that the manga is darker, not perfect but greatly written. The anime? Fanservice fest? What am i supposed to say? "The anime is great, if you liked fanservice that is" or "The anime is full of crap despite having great source material, they decided to please the fans for the sake for cliche ecchi with the same crappy formula". Is this also reasonable? or i am just being elitist? I dont dislike ecchi/fanservice anime its just straying further from the source material, making alot of plothole then suddenly make an original script from it with a terrible pacing and story seems a bad idea. and tbh, at this moment its hard to choose whether appreciate what Studio gave us but still had a reasonable critic or harshly critique it with justified reason by giving it low score. |
| I believe elitists are people who create kind of group or class of people who have deeper knowledge or have better taste in anime. They are self proclaimed. The rest is worse than them because ... many reasons apply (depends on the actual elitist). This is arrogant thinking in my opinion and this caracterizes them. They consider themselves coneseurs I would say, but not neccesarily are ones. People who know really a lot are more humble than loud about themselves. So coneseur would not bellitle anyone for watching something, they would just speak their mind in topic and respect others. Also watching pre 2010 anime is nothing special, it is a matter of taste. To me not animation counts the most but the story, and I really enjoy old animes. It is like considering old book just old and not worthy just because paper is yellowed, not really smart I think. Anyways, worrying about elitists is pointless, it is better to watch what you like and talking to people with whoom conversation is cultured and you get something from it. |
| For me the word anime elitist is the same as saying anime snob. |
Nyah_Chan said: pondipat said: Exactly, "only look at themselves" . Ofc is sad, but I don't think it qualifies as lack of self-esteem. Right? My point is: a narcissist minus self-esteem equals impossible. Yeah I guess your right... I didn't really get what you were implying at first... I just kinda made that up quickly without much thought so I didn't really notice that Can I ask you a rather personal question ? How do you deal with your narcissist dad ? Do you get involved or do you run from him ? |
pondipatOct 24, 2017 9:02 AM
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The_Missing_Link said: According to mal, elitism is disliking a lot of popular anime. This definition is entirely incorrect since people have different taste. Actual elitism is Welcome to biased polls. You'll see a lot of them on MAL. I hate that too. FruitlessJuice said: elitist means that if the world is ending tomorrow... ur fked. if the world is ending in 6 months then u get a seat in the escape pod in the space ship that will transfer to another planet. how do you earn elitist status??? simple. you pay the secret government $1000 a month and ur seat is secured. Lol. Sorry, there is no space ship that can get a sizable population somewhere safe. It's not impossible to construct (especially if you build a doomsday spaceship with an Orion drive), but it'll take a few years to make one that would not just explode. And you're doomed anyway, because all the crew and passengers are elitists, so your space colony is going to die. One way or another. AltoRoark said: @EcchiKingMamster That's not elitism. That's being a snob. There's a difference. And no, neither of them have anything to do with what you like. I always thought snob and elitist is the same thing - it's about disliking people who aren't like you in some contrived way. |
| What triggers me most about people using the term to misconstrue judgments based on taste alone is not that people, including me, get called elitist for no reason by people who simply don't want to engage in a civil discussion and take a look at someone's favorites to come up with some buzzword to discredit them from the start so they don't have to bother. No, people can at least defend themselves when confronted with ignorant prejudices. What really bothers me are those poor shows who get seen in a negative light by 70% of all people just because of that ridiculous association. Many people will not even take a second look at something like LOGH or Lain or Tex because they think those are no-fun-allowed shows that people only pretend to like to be intelligent or whatever, but that are impossible to actually get enjoyment out of. They treat the shows as if the shows themselves were snoby trying to tell them that they are the best or most intelligent shows out there, and then watch them with a mindset of 'let's see how many reasons to disagree with that I can find'. Basically all the backlash that super mainstream shows like SAO get, except without any of the attached popularity. Unlike with SAO the shows are not seen in a negative light because a large amount of the people have seen them and there are a lot among them who think they're good, but rather because a large amount of the people who haven't seen them are convinced they're boring trash before ever watching them. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| I really don't get the idea that people having a different opinion on something has any effect on your enjoyment. People take ratings way too seriously. I'd figure that'd be obvious from the same show being in the top 10 four times, but apparently not. That misconception is probably what created this idea of calling people who don't like a certain popular anime elitists. Pullman makes a great point here too. This toxic ideology closes people's minds off to things they might really enjoy. It is always best to reserve judgement on something until after you actually know something about it. |
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The_Missing_Link said: I really don't get the idea that people having a different opinion on something has any effect on your enjoyment. People take ratings way too seriously. I'd figure that'd be obvious from the same show being in the top 10 four times, but apparently not. That misconception is probably what created this idea of calling people who don't like a certain popular anime elitists. Pullman makes a great point here too. This toxic ideology closes people's minds off to things they might really enjoy. It is always best to reserve judgement on something until after you actually know something about it. Back in the old days of the internet, there used to people showing off how awesome their taste is and how underground they are. I remember it being very common in music. The memory still stings. These people were annoying. It's been awhile since I met an actual elitist, though. Don't know what the panic is all about. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| "Elitist" is just a catch phrase to call out people that disagrees how awesome is your favorite anime. |
Pullman said: What triggers me most about people using the term to misconstrue judgments based on taste alone is not that people, including me, get called elitist for no reason by people who simply don't want to engage in a civil discussion and take a look at someone's favorites to come up with some buzzword to discredit them from the start so they don't have to bother. No, people can at least defend themselves when confronted with ignorant prejudices. What really bothers me are those poor shows who get seen in a negative light by 70% of all people just because of that ridiculous association. Many people will not even take a second look at something like LOGH or Lain or Tex because they think those are no-fun-allowed shows that people only pretend to like to be intelligent or whatever, but that are impossible to actually get enjoyment out of. They treat the shows as if the shows themselves were snoby trying to tell them that they are the best or most intelligent shows out there, and then watch them with a mindset of 'let's see how many reasons to disagree with that I can find'. Basically all the backlash that super mainstream shows like SAO get, except without any of the attached popularity. Unlike with SAO the shows are not seen in a negative light because a large amount of the people have seen them and there are a lot among them who think they're good, but rather because a large amount of the people who haven't seen them are convinced they're boring trash before ever watching them. Among the three shows mentioned, I have only actually watched S.E.Lain. And I'm not going to defend it. It's actually unfun crazy stuff, whose authors have no idea what actual net technology is like and read too much parapsychology. I'd say it is some kind of horror. And I dislike horror. I'd rather people avoid these shows until they're experienced enough to disregard other people's opinions. |
| Anime elitism, in addition to type of shows watched, also extends to other aspects of anime like ecchi/anti-echhi, sub or dub, legal or illegal streaming. |
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| This video is pretty good at explaining anime elitism: |
TA_Saikat said: People who think their taste in superior to other people. Most of the elitist shows are trash tbh. This is quite ironic. Aren't you doing the same thing by calling their favorite shows trash? |
"Wonder is always difficult until you forgive whoever destroyed your love of surprises" — Edmond Manning  |
| No offense but look at in example, lord23, he's IBO elishit who call non-IBO fans shit or whatever (Actually shows that hated by elishits are actually better show) Elitists = call everyone who hate his loved show faggots or whatever |
| For me is someone with a critical taste. Ofc, the attitude is something variable among them. |
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| MY Opinion is FACT, yours is irrelevant Everything HAS to be this certain way |
| "Did you forget already? In my word the color "red" doesn't exist. These must be...my tears. Ever since I woke up from my coma...I think I've been waiting for this very moment. You'd do well to remember this, Maya. The only time a lawyer can cry is when it's all over." (Ace Attorney T&T: Bridge to the Turnabout) "I'm my worst critic." (Kendrick Lamar)  |
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