| Recently in anime discussions, I've heard people going on about how symbolism is terrible and foreshadowing, allussion, satire and other literary devices don't serve to further the understanding of the medium, but just come off as pretentious for the anime. A lot of the times these devices don't serve to understand the work but just to broaden your understanding of it. For instance, you can understand the main point and some messages of the anime psycho-pass without any understanding of it. Being able to analyze the show through different lenses, though can improve your respect and most importantly enjoyment of the show. Using Psycho Pass as an example, let's talk about the Dominator really quickly. In Psycho-Pass the Dominator is a symbol. It's a gun that connects to the Sybil system which is the governing system/society. A police officer using the dominator is someone that works within the system. It's a symbol that you adhere to the way society does things, so when the dominator doesn't fire at Makishima that's the same as society not being able to judge a criminal. If that's the case then what about Kogami's revolver? The person who decides when it's fired and who it kills is none other than Kogami himself. That means that the action of abandoning the dominator and deciding only to use the revolver is the same thing as abandoning society's precepts and choosing to take justice into his own hands. That extra bit of information, most people who watched the show gleamed helped them better appreciate and improve their enjoyment of Psycho Pass. Some shows require you to analyze it in order to even enjoy it like Yuri Kuma Arashi. Lots of anime users on this site, however, are afraid of taking that extra step of looking deeper into their shows. It's sometimes a required step for other works. My question is, why is it that people don't want to take that extra step? Also, when does it stop being the case of something being buried a little deeper in the show and just become pretentious? If you think it's pretentious please give examples because I'm really curious about those thoughts :) |
TitanAnteusOct 14, 2016 10:06 AM
| Yeah I think some people are scarred of appearing pretentious to other people although maybe that's a really pretentious statement XD. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: Yeah I think some people are scarred of appearing pretentious to other people although maybe that's a really pretentious statement XD. I'm just gonna put the definition of pretentious here just in case people get confused and start using the word incorrectly: "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed." I don't think anyone's scared of appearing pretentious to be honest. I feel like, liking certain shows are just regularly called that and people can't come to a consensus regarding it. |
| People on MAL either don't know what symbolism means, or think anyone who brings it up is pretentious for serif their favorite show as a philosophical masterpiece, perhaps both. It typically reenforces a point already made like in the examples you describe. You already know those characters have those traits, but reenforcing them through imagery in the show is a nice touch. The dominator on Makishima for plot reasons, and Kogami's revolver for characterization. Some symbols add implicit information like Gendou's glasses in NGE or in place of bringing it up by internal monologue or other distracting means. I don't think people are afraid of digging deeper, I just don't think they care to. They watch anime for different reasons or they don't want to spend a lot of time on one show. Also, people will get mad at you for suggesting cartoons can be deep, calling you pretentious/elitist/over analyzing. People are bad at understanding others perspective already, so when they don't care about digging deeper, they're going to write off anyone who does. |
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| It is more like people greatly overestimate their analytical skills when it comes to anime. There are people who realize their own incompetence and enjoy anime that doesn't require thinking, but there is a sub-section of people who simply think they are god's gift to earth but do not recognize the failure in their own logic and reasoning. |
merryfistmas said: People on MAL either don't know what symbolism means, or think anyone who brings it up is pretentious for serif their favorite show as a philosophical masterpiece, perhaps both. It typically reenforces a point already made like in the examples you describe. You already know those characters have those traits, but reenforcing them through imagery in the show is a nice touch. The dominator on Makishima for plot reasons, and Kogami's revolver for characterization. Some symbols add implicit information like Gendou's glasses in NGE or in place of bringing it up by internal monologue or other distracting means. I don't think people are afraid of digging deeper, I just don't think they care to. They watch anime for different reasons or they don't want to spend a lot of time on one show. Also, people will get mad at you for suggesting cartoons can be deep, calling you pretentious/elitist/over analyzing. People are bad at understanding others perspective already, so when they don't care about digging deeper, they're going to write off anyone who does. I agree with most of what you said except for that last statement. I think that's a bit too much of a generalization and it's not that people will write off anyone who does analyze a show. It feels more like they don't understand how it can improve a show so bringing it up seems moot. Shows that rely on literary devices though get an undue amount of hate just because of the effort it requires to enjoy. Also, most of the times the show that rely heavily on literary devices goes into controversial themes and ideas the audience doesn't agree with anyways. |
| It's hard for a show in general to be pretentious in terms of symbolism. It's just when a show pretends to be something it's not, which is very often not the case. It just tries to tell things through imagery and whether that's obvious or not doesn't change the context or intention. The pretentiousness would be found with the fans rather than the show, declaring "it's deep and meaningful" The biggest example of that is, the story being very "in-your-face" with the meaning of the symbolism, aka just spelling it out and, when it's supposed to be philosophical, giving a half-assed answer, so there isn't really anything left to ponder about. Take Ghost in the Shell, where the entire setting provides insight in "what is being human", but instead of leaving it like that and making the story say that through events, the main character kind of has to spell out the questions, which IMO is kind of pretentious. I like ghost in the shell, but the claims of how sophisticated it is are lost to me. It didn't define this kind of setting either, so those are just not viable arguments. It's a good cyberpunk story in its own right, with good characters, an interesting setting, etc., but the power of its philosophy fell flat when the entirety was just explained in dialogue. But rather than the anime being pretentious I think people declaring that the anime is deep are pretentious, which kinda caused this opinion of mine on GITS. The people just had me expecting too much by saying shit like 2deep4u, which had me expecting it would actually be a story i could ponder about again. which it wasn't. there is nothing to think about at all. (If you are asking me who the first to write something like this was, I don't know. I know Dick wrote DADOES in ~'60, and the theme of "what is being human, really?" was handled way better, since paranoia is kinda his flick either way and that's part of that category) Another good example is the Red and Blue Ogre story in Re:Zero, where the comparison between Rem and Ram is being made far too obvious, and kinda loses its strength since it's also a weak metaphor for their backstory. that's up to you, tho. those are things i think are pretentious, but it doesn't per se decrease my enjoyment of a show, unless it is a bad representation fo the story on top of it. (take re:zero). But being able to think about something definetely improves my enjoyment, so I welcome symbolisms and deeper meanings. Some people just don't want to bother to spend time with that and I understand. They're looking for excitement or tragedy, action and love... not a deep meaningful complex story, so I can understand them not wanting to HAVE to stand still and think about it to enjoy something. They have all right not to enjoy stories with well-written and layered stories (in which the layers are presentation - actual story - deeper meaning). I appreciate all opinions, unless they're not personal ones. I will disagree regularly, but discussing is fun usually. (I say after calling people pretentious. fite me) |
demonskul777 said: It's hard for a show in general to be pretentious in terms of symbolism. It's just when a show pretends to be something it's not, which is very often not the case. It just tries to tell things through imagery and whether that's obvious or not doesn't change the context or intention. The pretentiousness would be found with the fans rather than the show, declaring "it's deep and meaningful" The biggest example of that is, the story being very "in-your-face" with the meaning of the symbolism, aka just spelling it out and, when it's supposed to be philosophical, giving a half-assed answer, so there isn't really anything left to ponder about. Take Ghost in the Shell, where the entire setting provides insight in "what is being human", but instead of leaving it like that and making the story say that through events, the main character kind of has to spell out the questions, which IMO is kind of pretentious. I like ghost in the shell, but the claims of how sophisticated it is are lost to me. It didn't define this kind of setting either, so those are just not viable arguments. It's a good cyberpunk story in its own right, with good characters, an interesting setting, etc., but the power of its philosophy fell flat when the entirety was just explained in dialogue. But rather than the anime being pretentious I think people declaring that the anime is deep are pretentious, which kinda caused this opinion of mine on GITS. The people just had me expecting too much by saying shit like 2deep4u, which had me expecting it would actually be a story i could ponder about again. which it wasn't. there is nothing to think about at all. (If you are asking me who the first to write something like this was, I don't know. I know Dick wrote DADOES in ~'60, and the theme of "what is being human, really?" was handled way better, since paranoia is kinda his flick either way and that's part of that category) Another good example is the Red and Blue Ogre story in Re:Zero, where the comparison between Rem and Ram is being made far too obvious, and kinda loses its strength since it's also a weak metaphor for their backstory. that's up to you, tho. those are things i think are pretentious, but it doesn't per se decrease my enjoyment of a show, unless it is a bad representation fo the story on top of it. (take re:zero). But being able to think about something definetely improves my enjoyment, so I welcome symbolisms and deeper meanings. Some people just don't want to bother to spend time with that and I understand. They're looking for excitement or tragedy, action and love... not a deep meaningful complex story, so I can understand them not wanting to HAVE to stand still and think about it to enjoy something. They have all right not to enjoy stories with well-written and layered stories (in which the layers are presentation - actual story - deeper meaning). I appreciate all opinions, unless they're not personal ones. I will disagree regularly, but discussing is fun usually. (I say after calling people pretentious. fite me) Wow demonskull. You... you... you're a weird guy. Like I stopped to look at your avatar every other sentence like... Is that thing, really speaking these words? XD Regarding how you feel about GITS I do agree for the most part, but that's only in the TV series where yes everything's practically spelled out for you. It's no Paranoia agent but it still tackles impressive ethical questions and ideologies. Still... everything's on the surface for the TV show so that most people could get their enjoyment out of it. Oh? Was the Red and Blue Ogre story in Re:Zero a bad representation of it? I didn't know. |
| Because people prefer watching anime more than discussing it. Most of the time, fans overanalyzing anime. Evangelion is one good example where the assistant director admit symbolism had no deep philosophical/religion connection whatsoever but just there for the cool factor of it. Symbolism in anime a lot of the time is overrated. In the end, even symbolism is subjective and is up to each different viewers interpretation. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
Zapredon said: Because people prefer watching anime more than discussing it. Most of the time, fans overanalyzing anime. Evangelion is one good example where the assistant director admit symbolism had no deep philosophical/religion whatsoever but just there for the cool factor of it. But by watching evangelion, one would easily come to the conclusion that there are no religious philosophical statements being made. There is more Freudian Symbolism if anything. I don't know why people make a big deal about the Christianity thing, it is obviously there for aesthetic purposes. Angel's Egg is something that actually deals with religion and makes a lot of allusions to parables found in the bible. |
| Overanalyzing stuff doesn't really bring out more enjoyment of it I'd say. If you have to go to that extent then that's taking the fun out of it. If an anime can't deliver its messages in a way which enables you to understand them just by paying attention reasonably when watching, then it's not explained well enough. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to do in-depth research on your own just to understand the messages of the plot Same way complexity in video games is only a good thing up to a certain point: you shouldn't have to go consult a wiki just in order to understand how to play the game |
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TitanAnteus said: Like I stopped to look at your avatar every other sentence like... Is that thing, really speaking these words? XD hey man, people can like literature AND hot anime girls. TitanAnteus said: Regarding how you feel about GITS I do agree for the most part, but that's only in the TV series where yes everything's practically spelled out for you. It's no Paranoia agent but it still tackles impressive ethical questions and ideologies. Still... everything's on the surface for the TV show so that most people could get their enjoyment out of it. Yeah, I'm still planning on reading the manga, I've kinda been not finding the time or will to read manga at the moment (since i kinda picked up reading novels again, more), but maybe I'll check it out once I finish Eden. TitanAnteus said: Oh? Was the Red and Blue Ogre story in Re:Zero a bad representation of it? I didn't know. Not per se a bad representation, but it's kinda far-fetched IMO? I may be wrong though, since I don't exactly remember it that well. Like it felt like a kinda weird metaphor for what actually happened. Ram kinda went all like "don't tell rem about this", but the only reason you really link it with their backstory is the color of the ogres and the fact one lost their horn, but that's really it as far as I remember? It felt unnecessary. Like i don't actually know that was the first thing that popped up in my head |
PoeticJustice said: Zapredon said: Because people prefer watching anime more than discussing it. Most of the time, fans overanalyzing anime. Evangelion is one good example where the assistant director admit symbolism had no deep philosophical/religion whatsoever but just there for the cool factor of it. But by watching evangelion, one would easily come to the conclusion that there are no religious philosophical statements being made. There is more Freudian Symbolism if anything. I don't know why people make a big deal about the Christianity thing, it is obviously there for aesthetic purposes. Angel's Egg is something that actually deals with religion and makes a lot of allusions to parables found in the bible. As I edited in previous post, symbolism is depend on each individual interpretation. It is again a subjective thing. That is why some people make a big deal about the Christianity thing while others like me or you don't. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| @Zapredon @PoeticJustice Actually, Evangelion does have quite a lot of religious imagery. The show's name hints at this and the fact that the enemies are angels hints at this. There's even an angel called lilith that's on a cross, and it sort of died for our sins. Like it's death saved humanity. I haven't watched the show in a while so I can't tell you if there are any objects that are representative of anything religious in it but I don't think you can call literary devices like symbolism a subjective thing. Hmmm... sure lots of times symbols are a cause for discussion, like in let's say Junketsu No Maria, what does Maria's virginity actually symbolize? Could it be her innocence, strong will... lots of things could be said about it since the loss of her virginity = the loss of her magic, BUT we know it symbolizes something, and saying otherwise would be factually incorrect. |
| Fuck analyzing anime, leave it to people who have too time on their hands I want to be entertained and nothing else |
lady_freyja said: TitanAnteus said: My question is, why is it that people don't want to take that extra step? Maybe my impression is wrong, but from what I saw of my entourage, either in anime/manga medium or other types of medium: — People who love analyze stuffs become demanding. — When you're demanding, you enjoy less and less things because most stuffs doesn't offer enough substance for you anymore. I guess it corresponds to the phenomena called "elitism" on MAL. Personally, I prefer to stay as simple as possible in my life, and thus in my appreciation of entertainment and art. And anyway, when I understand some "deep stuffs", I'm more often unimpressed than impressed by it. It's rare that I'm reacting by a "it's cool!" when I discover those stuffs, but more "oh, it's just that, how boring/useless…". Actually, I've noticed that too. Lots of anime watchers who do enjoy these things tend to be really critical of anime who don't have them. I do understand why you'd want to keep it simple, but just understanding the shallower aspects of a show is some kind of analysis. It's simple analysis like "why is Shirou saving Tohsaka Rin. Oh he has a hero complex" but it's an analysis. Also... See @merryfistmas I told you it's not generally a negative opinion of the opposite but that people just find the action moot. Robiiii said: Fuck analyzing anime, leave it to people who have too time on their hands I want to be entertained and nothing else I think you have the wrong impression of people who do these things. I'm thinking you're imagining us, watching the show, going back and looking at pausing at random scenes going...."what does Alucard's gun in hellsing MEAN!" That's not what's happening at all. It happens simultaneously while we're watching the show. Let's take simple things like objects for instance. Let's say all the bad guys in a show appear and they have crosses. We just notice all the bad guys have a cross pattern somewhere on their body. Then when someone shows up with an upside down cross somewhere on their body, after our previous analysis this character has caught our attention and his actions can then have meaning based on a different light. The cross in this scenario is a motif. By the way you don't need to know these words to analyze a show. You just kind of feel it and if you took a literary class you can attach words to it. |
TitanAnteusOct 14, 2016 10:38 AM
| You guys should try analyzing hentai sometimes, it's pretty entertaining |
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CheekyKunt said: You guys should try analyzing hentai sometimes, it's pretty entertaining Have you? If yes then pls stop, thats a bit ridiculous xD |
Oian said: If you let those casuals "analyze" sth then they will "over-analyze" it for sure. Just like they did with re:zero. That was cancerous. But that leads into a discussion and then a greater appreciation of the show... hopefully? Like the Red and Blue ogre story? I think if people brought it up as something they found interesting and had a discussion about it, people would be able to aprreciate it more or less and how it's used in the show Re:Zero. CheekyKunt said: You guys should try analyzing hentai sometimes, it's pretty entertaining You mean like hentai games? Like Utawarerumono. That's been done to death, with all the science replacing religion talk. If you were just trying to be cheeky then no one's saying some shows aren't just fun for funs sake. Not every show has layers? Like does this really need to be explicitly said? |
| "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"-Sigmond Freud Not everyone feels the need to obsessive-compulsively analyze every insignificant thing. There is nothing wrong with drawing the line somewhere between rational and obsessive. Where to draw it with me depends on the show, some require more thought than others, but even if I analyzed the show to an excessive extent my conclusions would often be worthless since they aren't canon and 10 other people would interpret the same information 10 other ways. A wise man doesn't fight a battle he knows he can't win, and seeing as how any theories I come up with can't be officially confirmed it's an effort I probably wouldn't make. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
demonskul777 said: TitanAnteus said: Like I stopped to look at your avatar every other sentence like... Is that thing, really speaking these words? XD hey man, people can like literature AND hot anime girls. TitanAnteus said: Regarding how you feel about GITS I do agree for the most part, but that's only in the TV series where yes everything's practically spelled out for you. It's no Paranoia agent but it still tackles impressive ethical questions and ideologies. Still... everything's on the surface for the TV show so that most people could get their enjoyment out of it. Yeah, I'm still planning on reading the manga, I've kinda been not finding the time or will to read manga at the moment (since i kinda picked up reading novels again, more), but maybe I'll check it out once I finish Eden. TitanAnteus said: Oh? Was the Red and Blue Ogre story in Re:Zero a bad representation of it? I didn't know. Not per se a bad representation, but it's kinda far-fetched IMO? I may be wrong though, since I don't exactly remember it that well. Like it felt like a kinda weird metaphor for what actually happened. Ram kinda went all like "don't tell rem about this", but the only reason you really link it with their backstory is the color of the ogres and the fact one lost their horn, but that's really it as far as I remember? It felt unnecessary. Like i don't actually know that was the first thing that popped up in my head Well I didn't mean the manga actually <_<; I meant the movie. Also, I felt like it kind of made sense since one ogre kind of sacrificed their ogreness so the other ogre could be happy, but the other ogre didn't find happiness because it had lost its friend. It paralleled pretty well with Rem and Ram from what I recalled. Also no you are not allowed to like HOT ANIME GIRLS. I'm allowed to like HOT ANIME GIRLS. They're all mine. You get none. |
Kruszer said: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar"-Sigmond Freud Not everyone feels the need to obsessive-compulsively analyze every insignificant thing. There is nothing wrong with drawing the line somewhere between rational and obsessive. Where to draw it with me depends on the show, some require more thought than others, but even if I analyzed the show to an excessive extent my conclusions would often be worthless since they aren't canon and 10 other people would interpret the same information 10 other ways. A wise man doesn't fight a battle he knows he can't win, and seeing as how any theories I come up with can't be officially confirmed it's an effort I probably wouldn't make. True. Overanalyzing is DEFINITELY a thing. Like some people look at a show's color palette and see that the color yellow is generally attributed with terrible things so they expect yellow to be seen as a bad thing, when this could just be circumstance. Other shows require you to analyze like Yuri Kuma Arashi though and if you just try to enjoy the show at face value all you'll get is confusion. Regarding that Cigar is just a Cigar thing, I'd think that statement is ironic because cigarrettes can have a strong meaning. Cigars were smoked by rich people and were the sign of nobility and wealth. Cigarettes were smoked by more common people. Blue collar or white collar it didn't matter as long as they were in a hard profession trying to make the most of their lives. So what happens if you see one person smoking a cigarette around a bunch of people smoking cigars. You don't know anything about these people but you can already make assumptions about them. I'd make the assumption that the cigar people were probably born into wealth while the cigarette smoker was a self-made man. It's not even a hard analysis to make nor does it take time, but it can improve your enjoyment of the work by doing it. |
kamisama751 said: demonskul777 said: It's hard for a show in general to be pretentious in terms of symbolism. It's just when a show pretends to be something it's not, which is very often not the case. It just tries to tell things through imagery and whether that's obvious or not doesn't change the context or intention. The pretentiousness would be found with the fans rather than the show, declaring "it's deep and meaningful" The biggest example of that is, the story being very "in-your-face" with the meaning of the symbolism, aka just spelling it out and, when it's supposed to be philosophical, giving a half-assed answer, so there isn't really anything left to ponder about. Take Ghost in the Shell, where the entire setting provides insight in "what is being human", but instead of leaving it like that and making the story say that through events, the main character kind of has to spell out the questions, which IMO is kind of pretentious. I like ghost in the shell, but the claims of how sophisticated it is are lost to me. It didn't define this kind of setting either, so those are just not viable arguments. It's a good cyberpunk story in its own right, with good characters, an interesting setting, etc., but the power of its philosophy fell flat when the entirety was just explained in dialogue. But rather than the anime being pretentious I think people declaring that the anime is deep are pretentious, which kinda caused this opinion of mine on GITS. The people just had me expecting too much by saying shit like 2deep4u, which had me expecting it would actually be a story i could ponder about again. which it wasn't. there is nothing to think about at all. (If you are asking me who the first to write something like this was, I don't know. I know Dick wrote DADOES in ~'60, and the theme of "what is being human, really?" was handled way better, since paranoia is kinda his flick either way and that's part of that category) Another good example is the Red and Blue Ogre story in Re:Zero, where the comparison between Rem and Ram is being made far too obvious, and kinda loses its strength since it's also a weak metaphor for their backstory. that's up to you, tho. those are things i think are pretentious, but it doesn't per se decrease my enjoyment of a show, unless it is a bad representation fo the story on top of it. (take re:zero). But being able to think about something definetely improves my enjoyment, so I welcome symbolisms and deeper meanings. Some people just don't want to bother to spend time with that and I understand. They're looking for excitement or tragedy, action and love... not a deep meaningful complex story, so I can understand them not wanting to HAVE to stand still and think about it to enjoy something. They have all right not to enjoy stories with well-written and layered stories (in which the layers are presentation - actual story - deeper meaning). I appreciate all opinions, unless they're not personal ones. I will disagree regularly, but discussing is fun usually. (I say after calling people pretentious. fite me) Which ghost in the shell adaptation are you talking about? I watched the original, but I'm not saying the setting or anything is pretentious per se. I'm just talking about that conversation on the boat where every possible question a story like this is supposed to ask, is posed in an "in-your-face" kinda manner. I went into it expecting something that would actually make me think "who is an android? how human are androids? could android function as humans..." the same way DADOES has done (note: i read dadoes after I watched ghost in the shell, so it's not because i thought about this a lot before i watched the movie). it's a good movie, just the questions are kinda posed for us and we are not made to wonder about it ourselves. That's just me though, GiTS still is just a cyberpunk story and is interesting because of the world, rather than it's underlying themes to me. EDIT: i'm just comparing with DADOES because it's the best thing I can compare it to, since it's actually written before GiTS, so it isn't inspired by it like western Cyberpunk is, and it handles the same themata. and i love Dick |
metadataOct 14, 2016 11:23 AM
Bowie said: Adding more fire to the flame, nice. That sounds like a lot of work to do and honestly I'm all like Anime =/= Work on this. [Copy Pasted Message] I think you have the wrong impression of people who do these things. I'm thinking you're imagining us, watching the show, going back and looking at pausing at random scenes going...."what does Alucard's gun in hellsing MEAN!" That's not what's happening at all. It happens simultaneously while we're watching the show. Let's take simple things like objects for instance. Let's say all the bad guys in a show appear and they have crosses. We just notice all the bad guys have a cross pattern somewhere on their body. Then when someone shows up with an upside down cross somewhere on their body, after our previous analysis this character has caught our attention and his actions can then have meaning based on a different light. The cross in this scenario is a motif. By the way you don't need to know these words to analyze a show. You just kind of feel it and if you took a literary class you can attach words to it. [/Copy Pasted Message] |
TitanAnteus said: @Zapredon @PoeticJustice Actually, Evangelion does have quite a lot of religious imagery. The show's name hints at this and the fact that the enemies are angels hints at this. There's even an angel called lilith that's on a cross, and it sort of died for our sins. Like it's death saved humanity. I haven't watched the show in a while so I can't tell you if there are any objects that are representative of anything religious in it but I don't think you can call literary devices like symbolism a subjective thing. Hmmm... sure lots of times symbols are a cause for discussion, like in let's say Junketsu No Maria, what does Maria's virginity actually symbolize? Could it be her innocence, strong will... lots of things could be said about it since the loss of her virginity = the loss of her magic, BUT we know it symbolizes something, and saying otherwise would be factually incorrect. If it's not subjective,then how come the assistant director dismiss it as there's nothing deep meaning or message about it while the fans overanalyzing thing and claim there is? I didn't watch Junketsu No Maria but stuff like that doesn't really mean there is symbolism in it just because you think there is. Most of the time, symbolism in anime is actually non existence and it just pretentious fans eager to prove how smart they are. |
ZapredonOct 14, 2016 11:05 AM
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| I don't mind analysing the anime I watch Its just I don't watch shows that try to act deep. I prefer shows that are very straight forward of what they want to be so I see no need to analyse them |
DeknijffOct 14, 2016 11:05 AM
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TitanAnteus said: Why did you go on a lengthy rant on my reason as to WHY I don't go deep into Japanese cartoons. I don't care what others do to watch anime, or ever stated my impression on those who choose to go deep into anime. I just commented why I found it bothersome to do and why I don't go deep into anime. Bowie said: Adding more fire to the flame, nice. That sounds like a lot of work to do and honestly I'm all like Anime =/= Work on this. [Copy Pasted Message] I think you have the wrong impression of people who do these things. I'm thinking you're imagining us, watching the show, going back and looking at pausing at random scenes going...."what does Alucard's gun in hellsing MEAN!" That's not what's happening at all. It happens simultaneously while we're watching the show. Let's take simple things like objects for instance. Let's say all the bad guys in a show appear and they have crosses. We just notice all the bad guys have a cross pattern somewhere on their body. Then when someone shows up with an upside down cross somewhere on their body, after our previous analysis this character has caught our attention and his actions can then have meaning based on a different light. The cross in this scenario is a motif. By the way you don't need to know these words to analyze a show. You just kind of feel it and if you took a literary class you can attach words to it. [/Copy Pasted Message] |
| anime that i like = good anime that i dislike = shit the only analysis i need |
Cross  AngeHey guys check my profile for current airing season anime recommendation (guaranteed best taste) |
| I haven't heard of such a perspective before. I always under the impression that most fans were too stupid and uneducated to analyze anime. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| Because people think that analyzing stuff while watching an anime can be distracting and can get you off track... or just because analyzing something is too much work for them. |
   ค๓ เ ʝยรƚ ƚ๏๏ ƈยƚє Ŧ๏г ץ๏ย? |
Zapredon said: If it's not subjective,then how come the assistant director dismiss it as there's nothing deep meaning or message about it while the fans overanalyzing thing and claim there is? Because there's more to the staff than the assistant director? Also couldn't that just be a marketing ploy to let people know that you don't have to be a literary genius to enjoy the show. Like Hideaki Anno put his soul into the project and it shows in how different the original Evangelion is to the rebuilds. Bowie said: TitanAnteus said: Why did you go on a lengthy rant on my reason as to WHY I don't go deep into Japanese cartoons. I don't care what others do to watch anime, or ever stated my impression on those who choose to go deep into anime. I just commented why I found it bothersome to do and why I don't go deep into anime. [Copy Pasted Message] I think you have the wrong impression of people who do these things. I'm thinking you're imagining us, watching the show, going back and looking at pausing at random scenes going...."what does Alucard's gun in hellsing MEAN!" That's not what's happening at all. It happens simultaneously while we're watching the show. Let's take simple things like objects for instance. Let's say all the bad guys in a show appear and they have crosses. We just notice all the bad guys have a cross pattern somewhere on their body. Then when someone shows up with an upside down cross somewhere on their body, after our previous analysis this character has caught our attention and his actions can then have meaning based on a different light. The cross in this scenario is a motif. By the way you don't need to know these words to analyze a show. You just kind of feel it and if you took a literary class you can attach words to it. [/Copy Pasted Message] Eh that was a rant? I just thought you were making an incorrect general assumption when you said anime =/= work. Like... I don't think anyone who decides to look a little deeper into their shows consider it analyzing? I mean your statement was pretty general. "That sounds like a lot of work to do" |
TitanAnteus said: Zapredon said: If it's not subjective,then how come the assistant director dismiss it as there's nothing deep meaning or message about it while the fans overanalyzing thing and claim there is? Because there's more to the staff than the assistant director? Also couldn't that just be a marketing ploy to let people know that you don't have to be a literary genius to enjoy the show. Like Hideaki Anno put his soul into the project and it shows in how different the original Evangelion is to the rebuilds. That just your unfounded speculation. People of high position such as assistant director will know a lot. Most of the time, symbolism in anime is actually non existence and it just pretentious fans eager to prove how smart they are with their so called analytical skills. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| @TitanAnteus to be fair, my first sentence is also a generalization, and @Robiiii's response is what I'm referring to with my last sentence. Your response to him is pretty much how I feel. I totally agree with demonskul777 on GitS, it's fun to watch, but it's like The Matrix, cool concepts with great presentation that spell out their messages in a way that nobody could possibly misunderstand, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't give you much to think about like a SEL does. |
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Zapredon said: TitanAnteus said: Because there's more to the staff than the assistant director? Also couldn't that just be a marketing ploy to let people know that you don't have to be a literary genius to enjoy the show. Like Hideaki Anno put his soul into the project and it shows in how different the original Evangelion is to the rebuilds. That just your unfounded speculation. Most of the time, symbolism in anime is actually non existence and it just pretentious fans eager to prove how smart they are wit their so called analytical skills. Or they think it actually exists and have proof, only bringing it up to have a discussion with other people. If you disagree with their statement and think their proof is nonsense you can usually further the discussion and everyone gets a better understanding of the show. I mean what's the point of having a discussion board if certain types of discussions are discouraged? |
TitanAnteus said: Zapredon said: That just your unfounded speculation. Most of the time, symbolism in anime is actually non existence and it just pretentious fans eager to prove how smart they are wit their so called analytical skills. Or they think it actually exists and have proof, only bringing it up to have a discussion with other people. If you disagree with their statement and think their proof is nonsense you can usually further the discussion and everyone gets a better understanding of the show. I mean what's the point of having a discussion board if certain types of discussions are discouraged? Assistant director already stated there isn't. What is there to proof? |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
kamisama751 said: Just because X person working for Y says the show he made is good doesn't mean it is good. Same with every other aspect. Please don't confuse good with symbolism. Poor comparison there. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| People shit on others waaaaaay too much. |
Zapredon said: TitanAnteus said: Or they think it actually exists and have proof, only bringing it up to have a discussion with other people. If you disagree with their statement and think their proof is nonsense you can usually further the discussion and everyone gets a better understanding of the show. I mean what's the point of having a discussion board if certain types of discussions are discouraged? Assistant director already stated there isn't. What is there to proof? But it's not just his? It's not a book and he's not the sole writer. He's also the assistant director. Are you telling me that there is NO religious imagery in Evangelion. That you don't think there's nothing religious about angels trying to eradicate humanity in a show called Evangelion? Zapredon said: kamisama751 said: Just because X person working for Y says the show he made is good doesn't mean it is good. Same with every other aspect. Please don't confuse good with symbolism. Poor comparison there. It was a comparison though XD. |
TitanAnteus said: But it's not just his? It's not a book and he's not the sole writer. He's also the assistant director. Are you telling me that there is NO religious imagery in Evangelion. That you don't think there's nothing religious about angels trying to eradicate humanity in a show called Evangelion? It was a comparison though XD. Assistant director work closely with the director. Not to mention assistant director is also someone of high position in the staff. He know's the bigger picture. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
You welcome. My point is it's not the same as other aspect or symbolism in this case. |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
TitanAnteus said: @Zapredon @PoeticJustice Actually, Evangelion does have quite a lot of religious imagery. The show's name hints at this and the fact that the enemies are angels hints at this. There's even an angel called lilith that's on a cross, and it sort of died for our sins. Like it's death saved humanity. I haven't watched the show in a while so I can't tell you if there are any objects that are representative of anything religious in it but I don't think you can call literary devices like symbolism a subjective thing. Hmmm... sure lots of times symbols are a cause for discussion, like in let's say Junketsu No Maria, what does Maria's virginity actually symbolize? Could it be her innocence, strong will... lots of things could be said about it since the loss of her virginity = the loss of her magic, BUT we know it symbolizes something, and saying otherwise would be factually incorrect. the only thing that correlates with the biblical story of genesis is that evas are copies of adam other than that every religious symbol was just for decoration. |
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bigmustache93 said: TitanAnteus said: @Zapredon @PoeticJustice Actually, Evangelion does have quite a lot of religious imagery. The show's name hints at this and the fact that the enemies are angels hints at this. There's even an angel called lilith that's on a cross, and it sort of died for our sins. Like it's death saved humanity. I haven't watched the show in a while so I can't tell you if there are any objects that are representative of anything religious in it but I don't think you can call literary devices like symbolism a subjective thing. Hmmm... sure lots of times symbols are a cause for discussion, like in let's say Junketsu No Maria, what does Maria's virginity actually symbolize? Could it be her innocence, strong will... lots of things could be said about it since the loss of her virginity = the loss of her magic, BUT we know it symbolizes something, and saying otherwise would be factually incorrect. the only thing that correlates with the biblical story of genesis is that evas are copies of adam other than that every religious symbol was just for decoration. Well actually the halos were pretty spot on. So was lilith being on a cross. Also the lance of longinus being peirced into the first angel while being on a cross is imagery ripped straight from the bible. |
bigmustache93 said: TitanAnteus said: @Zapredon @PoeticJustice Actually, Evangelion does have quite a lot of religious imagery. The show's name hints at this and the fact that the enemies are angels hints at this. There's even an angel called lilith that's on a cross, and it sort of died for our sins. Like it's death saved humanity. I haven't watched the show in a while so I can't tell you if there are any objects that are representative of anything religious in it but I don't think you can call literary devices like symbolism a subjective thing. Hmmm... sure lots of times symbols are a cause for discussion, like in let's say Junketsu No Maria, what does Maria's virginity actually symbolize? Could it be her innocence, strong will... lots of things could be said about it since the loss of her virginity = the loss of her magic, BUT we know it symbolizes something, and saying otherwise would be factually incorrect. the only thing that correlates with the biblical story of genesis is that evas are copies of adam other than that every religious symbol was just for decoration. Agree. Yup, decorations. That also one way to put it. Nothing more than decorations for cool factor as the assistant director said. Anime fans just overanalyze things that actually doesn't even exist there. All anime can have symbolism if you overanalyse it. Most of these type of anime fans are pretentious people. |
ZapredonOct 14, 2016 12:36 PM
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
TitanAnteus said: bigmustache93 said: the only thing that correlates with the biblical story of genesis is that evas are copies of adam other than that every religious symbol was just for decoration. Well actually the halos were pretty spot on. So was lilith being on a cross. Also the lance of longinus being peirced into the first angel while being on a cross is imagery ripped straight from the bible. yes but you forget that the one who got pierced by it was jesus not adam,and he was the one who get crucified not lilith, i think this symbolism is just random. |
bigmustache93Oct 14, 2016 11:43 AM
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