| I hear a lot of people saying she got Deus Ex Machina'd back...I disagree. If you look at her death scene, there's the extra animation of the cure water bottle which rolls away, plus the drug user tried to use it in the earlier deaths. She died but Kirigiri did investigate her body. Everything was planned and done very cleanly. The body count number shown at the start of each ep didn't drop with Kirigiri's death, and this was foreshadowed even in the closing montage of dead bodies at the end of Mirai which DID NOT show Kirigiri's. A deus ex machina implies something suddenly pulled out of nowhere for plot reasons. This was something set up and foreshadowed since the first episodes and throughout. So no, its not fucking bullshit. |
| Deux ex is a term people just use without actually understanding what it means. What people are really trying to say here is that they find her revival to be cheap/cheapen the previous events much like how a deus ex does. It's up to the person's perspective to whether they see it as that. Normally id be on that side, but to be honest over time i slowly started to find her death to be the cheap part. it more or less made her look alot dumber than her character was supposed to be in that she didnt chop off her own arm which is very likley something she would of done unless there was an alternative like the cure-W that saves her life. That and i generally have a dislike for sequels that kill off survivors of a previous entry despite already concluding the character arc and plotline of said character. Some stories can do it better than others but DR is one of the cases where 3 really didnt exactly need to happen and there was no real necessity for kirigri to return for it which ultimately would of made her death feel like just a cheap way of banking off the emotional attachment made to the character based off the events of the previous game rather than building up a new character to use it on. I'd probably of been more ok with it if her death wasnt so unceremonious and pretty abrupt so im pretty glad even if its seen as cheap that they didnt kill her off. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: Deux ex is a term people just use without actually understanding what it means Normally id be on that side, but to be honest over time i slowly started to find her death to be the cheap part. it more or less made her look alot dumber than her character was supposed to be in that she didnt chop off her own arm which is very likley something she would of done unless there was an alternative like the cure-W that saves her life. That and i generally have a dislike for sequels that kill off survivors of a previous entry despite already concluding the character arc and plotline of said character. Some stories can do it better than others but DR is one of the cases where 3 really didnt exactly need to happen and there was no real necessity for kirigri to return for it which ultimately would of made her death feel like just a cheap way of banking off the emotional attachment made to the character based off the events of the previous game rather than building up a new character to use it on. I'd probably of been more ok with it if her death wasnt so unceremonious and pretty abrupt so im pretty glad even if its seen as cheap that they didnt kill her off. Agree many people say deus ex without understanding the full meaning/using it correctly. I don't think she's tough enough to survive chopping off her arm tbh, plus there's no doctor there to help with it. I could see Juzo do it out of sheer toughness but normal humans like her would likely die very quickly. Plus imagine how much shock that causes, cutting off your hand...no way could I see her do it without a talent to help her with it (ex Nagito's luck with his hand chopping) And I guess the last point is up to personal preference. I don't mind sequels with returning characters if the full conflict hasn't been resolved, and it hadn't really. That said, I did find the sequel disappointing in some ways. But better than nothing IMO and nice to get full closure on the franchise. |
Dragon said: JizzyHitler said: Deux ex is a term people just use without actually understanding what it means Normally id be on that side, but to be honest over time i slowly started to find her death to be the cheap part. it more or less made her look alot dumber than her character was supposed to be in that she didnt chop off her own arm which is very likley something she would of done unless there was an alternative like the cure-W that saves her life. That and i generally have a dislike for sequels that kill off survivors of a previous entry despite already concluding the character arc and plotline of said character. Some stories can do it better than others but DR is one of the cases where 3 really didnt exactly need to happen and there was no real necessity for kirigri to return for it which ultimately would of made her death feel like just a cheap way of banking off the emotional attachment made to the character based off the events of the previous game rather than building up a new character to use it on. I'd probably of been more ok with it if her death wasnt so unceremonious and pretty abrupt so im pretty glad even if its seen as cheap that they didnt kill her off. Agree many people say deus ex without understanding the full meaning/using it correctly. I don't think she's tough enough to survive chopping off her arm tbh, plus there's no doctor there to help with it. I could see Juzo do it out of sheer toughness but normal humans like her would likely die very quickly. Plus imagine how much shock that causes, cutting off your hand...no way could I see her do it without a talent to help her with it (ex Nagito's luck with his hand chopping) And I guess the last point is up to personal preference. I don't mind sequels with returning characters if the full conflict hasn't been resolved, and it hadn't really. That said, I did find the sequel disappointing in some ways. But better than nothing IMO and nice to get full closure on the franchise. I dont think shed survive it in the long run but she would of still lasted longer, but kirigiri was always shown to take risks in order to solve the investigation, and with her added character development shown she'd go far to protect naegi and asahina as well. I really feel like she'd take the risk of taking out her arm if there wasnt the alternative present. and yes its personal preference of the last point, one show really recently killed off survivors of a previous entry and was made exponentially better as a result called fafner exodus, but its one of the few i can think of that really did it right whilst mostly giving the characters a good send off, i think i can pintpoint to alot of shitty horror film sequels most notably the halloween franchise and the abysmal piece of trach alien 3 for retroactivly ruining previous entries by needlessly offing surviving characters in the gayest ways possible. With kirigiri if they gave a better send off id probably of been less offended by the possibility of her death, like hypothetically if they somehow made juzo death's kirigiri's id not for even a second want it retconed cause it'd be a great bittersweet sendoff. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Hmm, she also doesn't know how much longer until the case is solved though. I guess she thought cure water was a better alternative. |
| You just dont do forshadowing without using it, many people saw it but lost hope because many episodes continued after her "death". On a personal level i dont think killing off a character suposedly and showing her alive later is bad writing if done correctly as character development will still be there. I say the same for the rest of class 77 coming back, them being alive doesnt devalue the sacrifices they made, well even if they tried to explain how they were revived with some shenanigans fans would still complain. Same with Chiaki AI/will in ghost form, i mean at the end of DR2 she kept talking after Hajime´s narration. Also there was that ghost thing in DRAE so even if the Chiaki talking to Hajime in the end is just the AI that doesnt mean the message didnt get across to the real one in limbo, the Ai is more of a "how she would respond", well you can always bring Komaru and let her be possesed e.e Sorry for the rambling |
| I was reading a lot of the comments in the Episode thread and a lot of people seriously thought she just came back to life just like that with Mikan's help. Few were saying it's an ass pull, others are saying it's to please her fanboys, a lot didn't even understand how she is alive despite it being explained to them in the Hope Episode. All the hints were there that she might survive failing her NG Code. Her survival was planned from the start. So this is pretty much for everyone who doesn't understand why she's alive and I'm not referring to the people who commented prior to me on this thread. -Kirigiri is the Ultimate Detective and I'm sure she is thorough with her work. This is the same girl who licked the saliva off a corpse when she discussed how Izayoi died. So when she was inspecting Kimura's body, I'm sure she may have found the antidote that Kimura was working on. Knowing that she is going to die if Makoto is alive, she took the gamble on Kimura's antidote. Thus why she didn't chop her arm off or gave it to someone else. She gambled her life and ultimately won. -When she was found dead because of the poison, Asahina ran to her body. At the same time, there was a small bottle on the floor similar to Kimura's drugs. This led to speculation that she may have taken it before she failed her NG Code. -Ultimately, the antidote worked but left Kirigiri in a near death state. According to Mikan, Kirigiri probably wouldn't survive much longer and was in a near death state when she found her. However, Mikan, being the Ultimate Nurse, was able to save her from dying. -I'm not too sure on how long the time limit is, but I wanna say it's 30 Minutes to 1 Hour. The time limit is definitely not very long though. Let's just say it's an hour. Correct me if I'm wrong though. After Kirigiri's "death", no one was injected with the sleeping drug. So we can assume that she was clinging on to life for less than an hour before the bracelet was taken off. Then Mikan arrived in time to revive her while Kimura's drug lessen the potency of the poison. Since the time limit wasn't reached before Juzo removed the bracelets, Kirigiri really wasn't unconscious for too long. -Finally, the body count never dropped. At least I don't remember it dropping. Therefore, she was alive the entire time. She didn't come back to life like others say she did in reddit or in the episode thread on here. |
TehSnawnSep 30, 2016 2:32 AM
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| Did people forgot what Mikan mentions... The Drug don't cure the Poison, it just Delay it... |
| @Dragon At what mark in the episode did the cure water roll away? 9 or 10? I can't seem to find it and you've gotten me curious now ! :d mastelgate said: Maybe it's just bad translations? She also mentions "reviving them" If it's correct translation that is?Did people forgot what Mikan mentions... The Drug don't cure the Poison, it just Delay it... |
 |
| Watch the bottom right corner of the screen when Naegi and Asahina wake up and go toward Kirigiri. Also as a note to the other person: after Kirigiri 'dies' there is the final waking up with Naegi trying to suicide. |
nakedfoxspirit said: @Dragon At what mark in the episode did the cure water roll away? 9 or 10? I can't seem to find it and you've gotten me curious now ! :d mastelgate said: Maybe it's just bad translations? She also mentions "reviving them" If it's correct translation that is?Did people forgot what Mikan mentions... The Drug don't cure the Poison, it just Delay it... I replied to him in the discussion thread, but I'll leave what I said there, in here too. sarroush said: You're taking this too literally. Mikan said if you took Antagonist before being poisoned, you'd go into a near-death state. She didn't say or imply that after she revived Kyoko, the drug would begin to spread again. It's gone lol. |
| I think we can all agree though the show would of been better had they just not fake killed her off, like not keep her dead but just skip this whole supposed death plotpoint cause it was pretty much just a cheap way at keeping her out of the finale cause she'd solve the mystery too fast or something. I also feel like they should of revealed her alive sooner in the episode than they did cause i feel really disappointed we never actually got to see naegi's immediate reaction to her being alive. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: I think we can all agree though the show would of been better had they just not fake killed her off, like not keep her dead but just skip this whole supposed death plotpoint cause it was pretty much just a cheap way at keeping her out of the finale cause she'd solve the mystery too fast or something. I also feel like they should of revealed her alive sooner in the episode than they did cause i feel really disappointed we never actually got to see naegi's immediate reaction to her being alive. I agree. I disagree with people who wanted her to stay dead, but I do agree that it would have been better to just skip it entirely. It didn't really benefit to the story at all, and nothing changed in their environment as a result. Naegi was already resolved, so there was no new resolution either. It was largely pointless, and anyone who understood the significance of her existence in the plot would have foreseen her being alive still even a mile away. The revelation happening soon would have been better too, but obviously would still have not been as good as if it had just not happened at all. That said, Danganronpa is great because it's different. It doesn't always need to be perfect. Still, it would have been nice if Naegi would have taken anything she said about solving murders to heart, and had thoroughly examined her to verify her death and realize that she was alive. |
| I was clinging onto hope that she was still alive, especially because of Kimura's drug being clearly shown beside her at the time of "death," but so many episodes went on without its mention that it really confused me? They made it a point to show that she was possibly still alive and then was like "alright let's move on"? There was a lot of stuff going on near the end of the anime so it's somewhat understandable, but still... I'm glad that it was touched upon in the end, at least. A little disappointed that they waited until literally the last minute of the anime to do it, even with everything else all happening in the finale, but at least she's back. |
me being hit with responsibilities |
| You're absolutely right, but it doesn't really matter because of two reasons: 1- It still counts as plot armor, she was only saved because she's a main character, and there was no reason to bring her back at the very end. 2- The fact that 10 other characters got Deus Ex Machina'd back in the same episode is already dumb, those who died on the island should've stayed dead. |
DiabloMask said: No one died on the island though, the one person who did die, chiaki, is still dead.2- The fact that 10 other characters got Deus Ex Machina'd back in the same episode is already dumb, those who died on the island should've stayed dead. I'd rather they of not brought back the remnants and instead left it vague but it has always been addressed that they could wake up again. Chiaki is the only one who was actually killed in 2. Saying they brought people back from the dead is massively misleading hence why DR1's cast never had any ressurection outside of an AI built a while after junko's death. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Tbh, I thought she really did die and that bottle was just there for lols or something, but not really surprised that she's alive either since I expected that it also could have meant something like many others have been saying, and it has. I see nothing wrong with how she survived. |
 |
NorseFTX said: What actually makes me perplexed is how people were able to be so confident in saying whether she was dead or alive before anything was confirmed. The way she "died" was very understated, without much drama, and without any sort of strong character development / defining moments in this anime before her "death" which would usually make a death meaningful. Her death was more or less just something that happened that didn't really serve that much purpose (except maybe to give Munakata a reason to listen to Naegi now that he's "lost" his waifu too and they're now bros). The show really avoided the subject of her death for the remaining episodes as well, which made me kind of hesitant to commit to whether she died or lived. I don't really understand. Her "death" didn't really feel understated or underwhelming or anything of the sort at all to mean. What do you mean that moments before her "death" there wasn't any meaningful/defining moments or without much drama? The stuff was definitely there, what with how Asahina, Mitarai, and especially Naegi reacted to it, along with Munakata's comments when she did "die". I also don't understand what you mean when you say that the show avoided the subject of her death for the remaining episodes when we see her friends still mourning about it and remembering why she wouldn't tell Naegi or anyone her NG code (along with how much she contributed with helping them getting out of the game by finding out what had happened to the victims). |
|
JizzyHitler said: DiabloMask said: No one died on the island though, the one person who did die, chiaki, is still dead.2- The fact that 10 other characters got Deus Ex Machina'd back in the same episode is already dumb, those who died on the island should've stayed dead. I'd rather they of not brought back the remnants and instead left it vague but it has always been addressed that they could wake up again. Chiaki is the only one who was actually killed in 2. Saying they brought people back from the dead is massively misleading hence why DR1's cast never had any ressurection outside of an AI built a while after junko's death. This makes the deaths in Danganronpa 2 kinda meaningless, all the shocks and sadness we felt were for nothing -_- Also if I remember correctly, Mikan regained her memories in chapter 3 of the game and turned back to a remnant of despair, if all of them regained their memories now how did they not turn back to despair? this ending seems rushed to be honest. |
DiabloMask said: They all have their memories of being despairs back, but they also have all their memories of their lives before the tragedy and the island killing game. Thats what nidai and hajime were saying to mitarai is that they all were sinners but they need to atone for what their actions have caused with all of the ROD's agreeing.JizzyHitler said: No one died on the island though, the one person who did die, chiaki, is still dead. I'd rather they of not brought back the remnants and instead left it vague but it has always been addressed that they could wake up again. Chiaki is the only one who was actually killed in 2. Saying they brought people back from the dead is massively misleading hence why DR1's cast never had any ressurection outside of an AI built a while after junko's death. This makes the deaths in Danganronpa 2 kinda meaningless, all the shocks and sadness we felt were for nothing -_- Also if I remember correctly, Mikan regained her memories in chapter 3 of the game and turned back to a remnant of despair, if all of them regained their memories now how did they not turn back to despair? this ending seems rushed to be honest. And yes i do agree it does retroactively harm DR2's more tragic tone to the first game, but again its always been known that they have a chance of waking up with the game really hammering home that while unlikely a miracle might happen. I wish it were kept vague and they would of only woken nagito and mikan up since they died knowing it was a game but its not like this came out of no where. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: DiabloMask said: They all have their memories of being despairs back, but they also have all their memories of their lives before the tragedy and the island killing game. Thats what nidai and hajime were saying to mitarai is that they all were sinners but they need to atone for what their actions have caused with all of the ROD's agreeing.This makes the deaths in Danganronpa 2 kinda meaningless, all the shocks and sadness we felt were for nothing -_- Also if I remember correctly, Mikan regained her memories in chapter 3 of the game and turned back to a remnant of despair, if all of them regained their memories now how did they not turn back to despair? this ending seems rushed to be honest. And yes i do agree it does retroactively harm DR2's more tragic tone to the first game, but again its always been known that they have a chance of waking up with the game really hammering home that while unlikely a miracle might happen. I wish it were kept vague and they would of only woken nagito and mikan up since they died knowing it was a game but its not like this came out of no where. Indeed, when they told in the game that Komaeda died knowing that they were in a game, I too thought of the possibility of Komaeda being the only one to wake up. But I don't understand why you "wish it were kept vague". The way they ended the game left us without any clue of whether or not they would wake up, and even if they woke up, how much they had ruined their bodies like Komaeda. I think it's awesome to see that Tsumiki, who got ruined because Junko, overcame the zetsubou and was the one who saved Kirigiri. And above all, Komaeda appearing with a robot hand, showing that he cut off Jonko's hand. If they had left all it vague I wouldn't be able to call it a conclusion. Especially after Izuru told Junko that he wanted to see whether Kibou could be more unpredictable than Zetsubou. |
ColtBuntlineOct 3, 2016 1:18 PM
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
JizzyHitler said: DiabloMask said: They all have their memories of being despairs back, but they also have all their memories of their lives before the tragedy and the island killing game. Thats what nidai and hajime were saying to mitarai is that they all were sinners but they need to atone for what their actions have caused with all of the ROD's agreeing.This makes the deaths in Danganronpa 2 kinda meaningless, all the shocks and sadness we felt were for nothing -_- Also if I remember correctly, Mikan regained her memories in chapter 3 of the game and turned back to a remnant of despair, if all of them regained their memories now how did they not turn back to despair? this ending seems rushed to be honest. And yes i do agree it does retroactively harm DR2's more tragic tone to the first game, but again its always been known that they have a chance of waking up with the game really hammering home that while unlikely a miracle might happen. I wish it were kept vague and they would of only woken nagito and mikan up since they died knowing it was a game but its not like this came out of no where. I never really thought they'd wake up from the game (or maybe I just didn't want that to happen), that's why I'm having a hard time accepting it. Also Zetsubou-hen was a bit disappointing, I expected them to show us what happened after the class turned into despair and what they did after Junko's death, but it just ended by telling us what we already know -_- I gotta say I expected more from the whole Danganronpa 3, I hope the game makes up for it. |
DiabloMask said: JizzyHitler said: They all have their memories of being despairs back, but they also have all their memories of their lives before the tragedy and the island killing game. Thats what nidai and hajime were saying to mitarai is that they all were sinners but they need to atone for what their actions have caused with all of the ROD's agreeing. And yes i do agree it does retroactively harm DR2's more tragic tone to the first game, but again its always been known that they have a chance of waking up with the game really hammering home that while unlikely a miracle might happen. I wish it were kept vague and they would of only woken nagito and mikan up since they died knowing it was a game but its not like this came out of no where. I never really thought they'd wake up from the game (or maybe I just didn't want that to happen), that's why I'm having a hard time accepting it. Also Zetsubou-hen was a bit disappointing, I expected them to show us what happened after the class turned into despair and what they did after Junko's death, but it just ended by telling us what we already know -_- I gotta say I expected more from the whole Danganronpa 3, I hope the game makes up for it. DiabloMask said: JizzyHitler said: They all have their memories of being despairs back, but they also have all their memories of their lives before the tragedy and the island killing game. Thats what nidai and hajime were saying to mitarai is that they all were sinners but they need to atone for what their actions have caused with all of the ROD's agreeing. And yes i do agree it does retroactively harm DR2's more tragic tone to the first game, but again its always been known that they have a chance of waking up with the game really hammering home that while unlikely a miracle might happen. I wish it were kept vague and they would of only woken nagito and mikan up since they died knowing it was a game but its not like this came out of no where. I never really thought they'd wake up from the game (or maybe I just didn't want that to happen), that's why I'm having a hard time accepting it. Also Zetsubou-hen was a bit disappointing, I expected them to show us what happened after the class turned into despair and what they did after Junko's death, but it just ended by telling us what we already know -_- I gotta say I expected more from the whole Danganronpa 3, I hope the game makes up for it. What happened after the class turned into despair was already told in DR2(and a glimpse of it was shown in DR3). |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
pkKodama said: What happened after the class turned into despair was already told in DR2(and a glimpse of it was shown in DR3). It wasn't explained in detail and a glimpse of it is not enough, I wanted to see what kind of personalities they had as remnants of despair, we've only seen Mikan, Komaeda, and Hinata. |
DiabloMask said: pkKodama said: What happened after the class turned into despair was already told in DR2(and a glimpse of it was shown in DR3). It wasn't explained in detail and a glimpse of it is not enough, I wanted to see what kind of personalities they had as remnants of despair, we've only seen Mikan, Komaeda, and Hinata. DiabloMask said: pkKodama said: What happened after the class turned into despair was already told in DR2(and a glimpse of it was shown in DR3). It wasn't explained in detail and a glimpse of it is not enough, I wanted to see what kind of personalities they had as remnants of despair, we've only seen Mikan, Komaeda, and Hinata. Oh, I forgot to mention Danganronpa Another Episode. There you can see what kind of personalities and appearances they had as remnants of despair. |
| “Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it.” ― Saint Augustine |
| Anyway, you need to admit, that her plot armor is quite tough. |
 |
Gonzak said: You just dont do forshadowing without using it, many people saw it but lost hope because many episodes continued after her "death". On a personal level i dont think killing off a character suposedly and showing her alive later is bad writing if done correctly as character development will still be there. I say the same for the rest of class 77 coming back, them being alive doesnt devalue the sacrifices they made, well even if they tried to explain how they were revived with some shenanigans fans would still complain. Same with Chiaki AI/will in ghost form, i mean at the end of DR2 she kept talking after Hajime´s narration. Also there was that ghost thing in DRAE so even if the Chiaki talking to Hajime in the end is just the AI that doesnt mean the message didnt get across to the real one in limbo, the Ai is more of a "how she would respond", well you can always bring Komaru and let her be possesed e.e Sorry for the rambling Well regarding to the 77 students, the fans might also be pissed if they remained dead. In fact letting them remain dead would cause a plot-hole. |
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