| There was a similar topic like this, but that suggested to remove the whole system. I'm saying to remove ONLY the unhelpful option. Basically everything said on the other post why this system wrong: -many people thinks this option is "I agree with you or not". -there are people who downvote your review no mater what You could write down the whole story like a novel and point out what you like or dont like in each part, it doesnt matter, you will get downvotes because hurr-durr I like/dont like this anime. And actually who cares about how many people don't find it helpful? Nobody The question is how many find it helpful. If someone send in troll reviews just report them or dont give them upvote. Since the system put the best review to the top I don't think there would be a problem from this. |
| But this has a glaring flaw. All old reviews will always be on top, while new reviews will have a lot harder time, being on the top. |
 |
| Right now new reviews have better chance to get to the top how is it any better? |
| Well if ppl stop writing shit reviews it won't be a problem |
Delenai said: Right now new reviews have better chance to get to the top how is it any better? Not really? now they are ranked based on what I assume is a percentage, which doesn't put any advantage on old or new. |
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tsudecimo said: Not really? now they are ranked based on what I assume is a percentage, which doesn't put any advantage on old or new. let's say there's a review with 200/300 rate this is 0,66 and there's an another with 6/9 this is 0,66 too exact same now each get a helpful 201/301 still 0,66 very little bigger than before 7/10 is 0,7 much bigger now you see why the new ones has advantage? |
Delenai said: That actually happens quite often.tsudecimo said: Not really? now they are ranked based on what I assume is a percentage, which doesn't put any advantage on old or new. let's say there's a review with 200/300 rate this is 0,66 and there's an another with 6/9 this is 0,66 too exact same now each get a helpful 201/301 still 0,66 very little bigger than before 7/10 is 0,7 much bigger Delenai said: I do. And actually who cares about how many people don't find it helpful? If a review has 1/100 helpful, I'll assume that it's because it's a bad review. However, if a review only has 1/1 helpfuls, or 1/10; I'll assume that it's because the series is not that well-known or that the review has just gotten to the front page. |
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yazio said: If a review has 1/100 helpful, I'll assume that it's because it's a bad review. However, if a review only has 1/1 helpfuls, or 1/10; I'll assume that it's because the series is not that well-known or that the review has just gotten to the front page. Well 1/1 prove nothing for me. And if the rate is 1/100 (lets assume non of them trolls) then the other 99 ppl maybe find an another review helpful (if there are any. if not, then you could make one) so then that will be the top review and you could ignore the one with 1 helpful. if the rate is 1/10 then its a bad review or the trolls/fanboys/antifanboys downvote it (thats what I think) |
Delenai said: I wonder how many people would go through the effort of reading lots of reviews just to find a good one.And if the rate is 1/100 (lets assume non of them trolls) then the other 99 ppl maybe find an another review helpful (if there are any. if not, then you could make one) so then that will be the top review and you could ignore the one with 1 helpful. |
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yazio said: I wonder how many people would go through the effort of reading lots of reviews just to find a good one. People need to read what a disaster, but really at least they would read a few and have an idea what the anime is about and not just accept prejudiced opinions. But that aside. If someone send in a review it appear on the recent reviews page. There the ppl can rate it, so when it actually appear on the animes page it already have some likes. Also as tsudecimo said this system give advantage to old reviews. So if someone try to make a new review to an old anime he would have no chance aganist the old ones. At this point maybe he give up. This would lead fewer reviews. But actually why ppl make review to those animes what already have many good ones (and he agree with these)? To make their review to the top? Its not like it give them xp or anything. To other ppl who look at their profile think they are nice cause they give reviews? 3 good reviews is more than enough. I think I answered your problem, but say if I mistaken it. |
| I'm against this. the "helpful" and "unhelpful" buttons allow there to be a balance. If everything is only upvoted, then that balance is lost... and a poor review could get a lot of upvotes early on, and be at the top of the list without any way for users to make their voice heard and move it downwards. I do think that reviews with more votes should carry more weight, though, on both the helpful and unhelpful side. This way it's not necessarily based on time, but on overall popularity of the review. So, on a review with 300 votes, each vote would carry more weight than a review with 50 votes, and each vote on that review with 50 votes would carry more weight than a review with 10 votes. This weight would be applied to both "helpful" and "unhelpful" votes. Let me just give you a basic example: a review has 200 "helpful" and 100 "unhelpful" votes. Each of those votes would be multiplied by the total number of votes. so "helpful" = 200*300 = 60000 then "unhelpful = 100*300 = 30000 We would then subtract the unhelpful votes from the helpful votes, leaving us with 30000. Let's call this one "Review A" Now, let's compare that to a review with 150 votes, but where most of them are positive. Helpful = 100*150 = 15000 Unhelpful = 50*150 = 7500 15000-7500 = 7500 This is "Review B" The one with more votes has a larger number overall, so it would be put above it. Now, let's look at a review with 300 votes, but mostly negative. Helpful = 125*300 = 37500 Unhelpful = 175*300 = 52500 37500 - 52500 = -15000 This is "Review C" So, the number comes out as negative... so now, even though the review has more votes overall, that fact that there's more negative ones would put it below the other two. Now, how about a review with 10 votes that are mostly negative. Helpful = 1*10 = 10 Unhelpful = 9*10 = 90 10 - 90 = -80 This is "Review D" It's still a negative number, and a higher percentage of negative votes, but it would be ranked above the other negative review, which has many more negative votes overall. This time the review will have 657 votes, to show how a high number of users voting on something could either positively or negatively impact something. Helpful = 286*657 = 187902 Unhelpful = 371*657 = 243747 187902 - 243747 = -55845 Let's call this "Review E" This would put it below everything else, despite it having the most ratings, simply because it has more negative votes at a higher weight. Let's have one final review example. This time it'll be 13 votes. Helpful = 10*13 = 130 Unhelpful = 3*13 = 39 130-39 = 91 Let's call this "Review F" So, even though this review has a higher percentage of positive ratings, it's got less ratings overall, so it's got a smaller number overall. The final ranking for these would be: 1) Review A with 200 out of 300 users voting helpful, gives it 30000 2) Review B with 100 out of 150 users voting helpful, gives it 7500 3) Review F with 10 out of 13 users voting helpful, gives it 91 4) Review D with 1 out of 9 users voting helpful, gives it -80 5) Review C with 125 out of 300 users voting helpful, gives it -15000 6) Review E with 286 out of 657 users voting helpful, gives it -55845 |
vigorousjammerJul 1, 2015 9:22 AM
::End of Transmission:: What have I been watching? Click here and find out on my viewing blog, "Vigorous Viewing" |
| (it would be painful to quote the comment) To vigorousjammer: vigorousjammer said: a poor review could get a lot of upvotes early on, and be at the top of the list without any way for users to make their voice heard and move it downwards. What you consider a poor review? It's true there are good reviews and better reviews, but if someone make a review to something what don't have any its still more helpful than no review. And excuse me, but even if someone make a better review it doesn't make the other review less helpful to vote it down. Thats bull**** and thats exacly what I want to prevent. If that review really that good than it will be on the top eighter way. I agree with you this system is really good to rank the good reviews. But I think your system is too cruel to the underrated reviews. vigorousjammer said: 3) Review D with 1 out of 9 users voting helpful, gives it -80 4) Review C with 125 out of 300 users voting helpful, gives it -15000 I mean its true that the second one have more downvotes, but it has a lot more upvotes too |
DelenaiJul 1, 2015 9:58 AM
vigorousjammer said: No need to invent the wheel, there's such thing as "weighted average".I do think that reviews with more votes should carry more weight, though, on both the helpful and unhelpful side. This way it's not necessarily based on time, but on overall popularity of the review. Delenai said: Shit is better than nothing? No. You know why reviews are forbidden when only few eps were aired?What you consider a poor review? It's true there are good reviews and better reviews, but if someone make a review to something what don't have any its still more helpful than no review. |
vivan said: Shit is better than nothing? No. You know why reviews are forbidden when only few eps were aired? who the hell talked about early reviews? and yes it doesnt matter how bad a review is it can still give you something that you don't have without reading it. something about the story, characters, sondtrack, anything maybe you will just know why that person like/don't like it but if you have a little sense you can get something from it. AND as I said above if you didn't read it. There's a report button if you think that person is only massing with the review. Otherwise write a better review. |
vigorousjammer said: This system is extremely flawed, sorry. A review having 0 helpful buttons out of 120 would be above your reviews 4 and 5. One having 170 out of 170 helpfuls would be below your review 1. That's just not right. There are some mathematical functions that can neglect these inconveniences but at the end of the day, I believe the current system is fine. Delenai said: There's no problem with what you stated since it happens both ways. For example, if that vote was 'unhelpful', then the new percentages would be 200/301 ~0.66 while the other would be 6/10=0.6. Eventually the score stabilises when more people read it. That's a good actually a good thing since it means that new reviews can also get exposition (appear on the first page) like tsudecimo said. With your system, old reviews with thousands of votes will have more exposition than new reviews which will be far behind, widening the gap and making them essentially unable to ever catch up. And this, even if most of those who actually read both prefer the newer. The 'not helpful' button is (ironically) very useful. |
Delenai said: i agree with you.There was a similar topic like this, but that suggested to remove the whole system. I'm saying to remove ONLY the unhelpful option. Basically everything said on the other post why this system wrong: -many people thinks this option is "I agree with you or not". -there are people who downvote your review no mater what You could write down the whole story like a novel and point out what you like or dont like in each part, it doesnt matter, you will get downvotes because hurr-durr I like/dont like this anime. And actually who cares about how many people don't find it helpful? Nobody The question is how many find it helpful. If someone send in troll reviews just report them or dont give them upvote. Since the system put the best review to the top I don't think there would be a problem from this. |
याद रखिये ख़ुशी इस बात पर निर्भर नहीं करती कि आप कौन हैं या आपके पास क्या है ; ये पूरी तरह से इस बात पर निर्भर करती है कि आप क्या सोचते हैं  |
agafin said: There's no problem with what you stated since it happens both ways. You are right, I just tried to show an example with reviews that evenly good agafin said: With your system, old reviews with thousands of votes will have more exposition than new reviews which will be far behind, widening the gap and making them essentially unable to ever catch up. Thats also true, but also said this. Delenai said: But actually why ppl make review to those animes what already have many good ones (and he agree with these)? To make their review to the top? Its not like it give them xp or anything. To other ppl who look at their profile think they are nice cause they give reviews? 3 good reviews is more than enough. I really can't see anything why would they do it except to "make grow their E-p*nis" (as one of my friends used to say) |
Agafin said: This system is extremely flawed, sorry. A review having 0 helpful buttons out of 120 would be above your reviews 4 and 5. One having 170 out of 170 helpfuls would be below your review 1. That's just not right. Helpful = 0*120=0 Unhelpful = 120*120 = 14400 0-14400 = -14400 That would put it above #5 but not above #4, so you're not entirely right in your assessment... Still, I guess the debate is... is 0 out of 120 worse than 125 out of 300? Even though that's zero out of 120 votes, and those 120 people all agree that it's a bad review, there's still more downvotes out of the 300-people in the second review. I guess a prefect scoring review like a 170 out of 170 being below an imperfect review like 200 out of 300 seems a little odd... but then again, that's more people who upvoted the latter review, even though the percentage is smaller. By contrast, a 200 out of 200 would be ranked above a 200 out of 300. and, now that I think about it... a 175 out of 175 would be ranked above a 200 out of 300. I dunno, it's really all a matter of personal preference. Agafin said: There are some mathematical functions that can neglect these inconveniences but at the end of the day, I believe the current system is fine. Yeah, maybe. I'm not actually entirely sure how the current system works, and I occasionally look at some review lists and think "why is this one so high up with so few votes?" What are these mathematical functions, though? Would it have something to do with exponents? |
::End of Transmission:: What have I been watching? Click here and find out on my viewing blog, "Vigorous Viewing" |
| My mind is going awry reading all those comments. Too much mathematics being used here. And I don't think there should be any change to the system at all because if this change is implemented I'm sure a whole lot of reviewers will be unhappy. Sites such as IMDb use the same system as well and MAL should keep it this way too. |
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