| Quick answer: Archer (F/sn) Anybody who says otherwise after being immersed in Nasuverse must be lying. |
| Lancer (Cu) being forced to kill innocent families for mana and forcibly refrain/retreat from battle would have pretty humiliating for him. Although there's cases like this all over fate. |
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ProphecyPriest said: Quick answer: Archer (F/sn) Anybody who says otherwise after being immersed in Nasuverse must be lying. WrongPriest said: Lancer (Cu) being forced to kill innocent families for mana and forcibly refrain/retreat from battle would have pretty humiliating for him. Although there's cases like this all over fate. |
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| Avenger had a real shit time,his ending was better though. |
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FrozenRemains said: Avenger had a real shit time,his ending was better though. Well that's like the opposite of what this thread is about XD |
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| Archer, obviously. |
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| Archer |
Psajdak said: I really don't know what you guys see so low and pathetic about Archer - it was just Shiro becoming smarter, and realistic - in other words, less unlikeable. He had a painful fate, but it wasn't that he, well, fallen, and became lower as a person. Either you are an AO watcher or you didn't read the VN thoroughly That's why he has it the worst...Because not even in death did he escape his shitty life, instead in death immortal that was when his hell REALLY began. |
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| Everything TheUnknownMerc said about Archer. His CG role is pretty fucked up. |
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TheUnknownMerc said: Psajdak said: I really don't know what you guys see so low and pathetic about Archer - it was just Shiro becoming smarter, and realistic - in other words, less unlikeable. He had a painful fate, but it wasn't that he, well, fallen, and became lower as a person. Either you are an AO watcher or you didn't read the VN thoroughly He belongs to the group of individuals who think the deal that Archer made to "save" the world is more "intelligent" and "mature".Its very difficult for certain people to realize : TheUnknownMrec said: his one desire to save people was not only spat upon but was utterly ridiculed every time he was summoned. Because he wasn't summoned before the events transpired to save everyone, he was summoned AFTER everyone had already died...and he was there to clean up, aka kill the people responsible. |
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| Sakura obviously. She got fucked over before her life even began. She gets ntr'd by a spirit in fate route. She gets ntr'd by her sister in UBW. Rin goes all mother of all bitches on her in HF only to make Sakura feel like shit when Rin suddenly decides to be a good sister for once near the very end. |
| Definitely Archer. He's had one tough ride :/ |
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iravuseiba said: Sakura obviously. She got fucked over before her life even began. She gets ntr'd by a spirit in fate route. She gets ntr'd by her sister in UBW. Rin goes all mother of all bitches on her in HF only to make Sakura feel like shit when Rin suddenly decides to be a good sister for once near the very end. Come at me. |
TheUnknownMercMay 5, 2015 7:06 AM
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TheUnknownMerc said: iravuseiba said: Sakura obviously. She got fucked over before her life even began. She gets ntr'd by a spirit in fate route. She gets ntr'd by her sister in UBW. Rin goes all mother of all bitches on her in HF only to make Sakura feel like shit when Rin suddenly decides to be a good sister for once near the very end. Hold me back. |
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TheUnknownMerc said: iravuseiba said: Sakura obviously. She got fucked over before her life even began. She gets ntr'd by a spirit in fate route. She gets ntr'd by her sister in UBW. Rin goes all mother of all bitches on her in HF only to make Sakura feel like shit when Rin suddenly decides to be a good sister for once near the very end. Why you little... Okay... |
WrongPriest said: TheUnknownMerc said: Hold me back. Nope. Go on, be a hero and kill this misguided fellow :) |
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| Same thing happened when we had a "which fate character had the rawest deal" in the fist cour subforum. I'm not going to be the one responsible for this one getting destroyed too. |
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| Sakura. |
ZeesMay 5, 2015 7:13 AM
| Archer. Avenger had a pretty good ending. Sakura got a happy ending in most outcomes. Kariya and Lancer got the sweet release of death. Nobody in this universe can claim they will be suffering FOR ALL ETERNITY, except for Archer. And let's not forget that he DID avert a world-scale crisis only to be consistently be spat on instead of being regarded as the hero he is. If this is not degradation i don't know what is. Psajdak said: Don't know what AO means, btw. Anime only. |
astroprogsMay 5, 2015 7:25 AM
Psajdak said: [ If that is how you see it, that's fine, but that isn't really the point of this thread. It isn't about which character suffered the most, but which one had degraded as a person the most compared to how they were before. Don't know what AO means, btw. AO is Anime-Only. |
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| That's the thing though, this is about who was the highest and then was degraded to a shadow of their form or self. It's not about how deep the chasm is, it's about how far you fell to get there. Archer does count but his high point wasn't all that glorious either. |
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astroprogs said: Sakura got a happy ending in most outcomes. She's got the single most devastating real end tho. The good end seemed like a fan service and as for the normal end, She'd be happier dead. |
Psajdak said: TheUnknownMerc said: If that is how you see it, that's fine, but that isn't really the point of this thread.Either you are an AO watcher or you didn't read the VN thoroughly That's why he has it the worst...Because not even in death did he escape his shitty life, instead in death immortal that was when his hell REALLY began. It isn't about which character suffered the most, but which one had degraded as a person the most compared to how they were before. Don't know what AO means, btw. That was the exact point. The point was degraded, aka from the starting point where did they end up. In terms of degraded...that seems like the most you can degrade as a person. In terms of Sakura i agree she suffered in different ways but she didn't "degrade" as a person. In one route she even gets a happy ending in her lifetime. So yes, Archer. because regardless of what happens in F/S N he STILL has to go back to this shitty world. In terms of math, his degradation approaches negative infinity. |
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iravuseiba said: astroprogs said: Sakura got a happy ending in most outcomes. She's got the single most devastating real end tho. The good end seemed like a fan service and as for the normal end, She'd be happier dead. Are you talking about UBW's good end? Didn't Gil kill Zouken, and Sakura lived with Shinji happily as brother and sister after? If you're talking about HF's normal end, then no, i wouldn't consider it a bad outcome for her. Shirou is dead, yeah, but Zouken and Shinji are dead, the grail is no more, and she can live a normal life. |
| Actually i would be inclined to even state caster is a close second in terms of who degraded the most. I only state archer because i feel he started at a higher regard for everything than Caster did...but they both crashed into the ground like a helicopter. |
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astroprogs said: iravuseiba said: She's got the single most devastating real end tho. The good end seemed like a fan service and as for the normal end, She'd be happier dead. Are you talking about UBW's good end? Didn't Gil kill Zouken, and Sakura lived with Shinji happily as brother and sister after? If you're talking about HF's normal end, then no, i wouldn't consider it a bad outcome for her. Shirou is dead, yeah, but Zouken and Shinji are dead, the grail is no more, and she can live a normal life. I meant HF good end. And things aren't good for Sakura for all the ends except for HF good end. As for the normal end, it is a terrible outcome for her. She grows old waiting for someone that will never return. It's worse than death I say. |
TheUnknownMerc said: Actually i would be inclined to even state caster is a close second in terms of who degraded the most. I only state archer because i feel he started at a higher regard for everything than Caster did...but they both crashed into the ground like a helicopter. Caster would've been the first no doubt if Archer's low point wasn't that low. Caster and Rider can be tied as second, though. |
| Archer. He got a resolution, but off he goes to do Alaya's dirty work -_- |
The sun is a deadly laser |
TheUnknownMerc said: Actually i would be inclined to even state caster is a close second in terms of who degraded the most. I only state archer because i feel he started at a higher regard for everything than Caster did...but they both crashed into the ground like a helicopter. Agreed. Both lore-wise and meta-wise. Lore wise she has a very similar progression of backstory as Archer(and actually started at far better point than Archer did). So it would be: 1. Archer = Caster 2. Rider 3. Lancer. astroprogs said: iravuseiba said: She's got the single most devastating real end tho. The good end seemed like a fan service and as for the normal end, She'd be happier dead. Are you talking about UBW's good end? Didn't Gil kill Zouken, and Sakura lived with Shinji happily as brother and sister after? If you're talking about HF's normal end, then no, i wouldn't consider it a bad outcome for her. Shirou is dead, yeah, but Zouken and Shinji are dead, the grail is no more, and she can live a normal life. Both UBW and Fate ends imply a happy resolution for Sakura. HF Normal is the most fitting tbh - she has a life while she still has to pay for her actions. HF true is just wish fulfillment bs in regards of her character fanbase. |
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astroprogs said: iravuseiba said: She's got the single most devastating real end tho. The good end seemed like a fan service and as for the normal end, She'd be happier dead. Are you talking about UBW's good end? Didn't Gil kill Zouken, and Sakura lived with Shinji happily as brother and sister after? If you're talking about HF's normal end, then no, i wouldn't consider it a bad outcome for her. Shirou is dead, yeah, but Zouken and Shinji are dead, the grail is no more, and she can live a normal life. For UBW, |
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iravuseiba said: astroprogs said: Are you talking about UBW's good end? Didn't Gil kill Zouken, and Sakura lived with Shinji happily as brother and sister after? If you're talking about HF's normal end, then no, i wouldn't consider it a bad outcome for her. Shirou is dead, yeah, but Zouken and Shinji are dead, the grail is no more, and she can live a normal life. I meant HF good end. And things aren't good for Sakura for all the ends except for HF good end. As for the normal end, it is a terrible outcome for her. She grows old waiting for someone that will never return. It's worse than death I say. She didn't degrade though...as a person she basically is the same :/ mira-nyan said: Archer. He got a resolution, but off he goes to do Alaya's dirty work -_- It's stated that Archer doesn't know how many times he has done this, how many times he has failed or succeeded and the only thing that keeps him going is the chance, regardless of how many times he may have done this with or without fail. So no matter, like i said, what resolution he gets, he is going back, memory erased, still horrible inside. |
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OneTrueEmiya said: astroprogs said: Are you talking about UBW's good end? Didn't Gil kill Zouken, and Sakura lived with Shinji happily as brother and sister after? If you're talking about HF's normal end, then no, i wouldn't consider it a bad outcome for her. Shirou is dead, yeah, but Zouken and Shinji are dead, the grail is no more, and she can live a normal life. For UBW, No they wont |
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iravuseiba said: I meant HF good end. And things aren't good for Sakura for all the ends except for HF good end. As for the normal end, it is a terrible outcome for her. She grows old waiting for someone that will never return. It's worse than death I say. So you consider her ending up with Shirou the only good end? Not the elimination of the cause of her suffering in both UBW ends and HF normal? You being able to live well after being poor forever is bad because you didn't win first place in the lottery? |
TheUnknownMerc said: iravuseiba said: I meant HF good end. And things aren't good for Sakura for all the ends except for HF good end. As for the normal end, it is a terrible outcome for her. She grows old waiting for someone that will never return. It's worse than death I say. She didn't degrade though...as a person she basically is the same :/ mira-nyan said: Archer. He got a resolution, but off he goes to do Alaya's dirty work -_- It's stated that Archer doesn't know how many times he has done this, how many times he has failed or succeeded and the only thing that keeps him going is the chance, regardless of how many times he may have done this with or without fail. So no matter, like i said, what resolution he gets, he is going back, memory erased, still horrible inside. In her life though. She started off as a happy Tohsaka, and then got wormed. Then in HF, Angra-Mainyu'ed. |
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TheUnknownMerc said: mira-nyan said: Archer. He got a resolution, but off he goes to do Alaya's dirty work -_- It's stated that Archer doesn't know how many times he has done this, how many times he has failed or succeeded and the only thing that keeps him going is the chance, regardless of how many times he may have done this with or without fail. So no matter, like i said, what resolution he gets, he is going back, memory erased, still horrible inside. 1) I literally didn't say any thing to oppose you. I already know all about Archer :I 2) He may get his memories erased, but he has a whole library of it available to him. He won't remember the resolution, but he will know it happened, and what happened. He'll read UBW like a book. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
CookingPriest said: No they wont So long as Zouken is still around, and Shirou has contact with Sakura, it's entirely possible for him to concoct something to make Sakura go crazy. It won't be easy, with Shinji becoming nice and Shirou not in a relationship with her, but the worm is still there and he could still mess with some stuff. Of course, this is all just conjecture. Until Nasu actually writes up a sequel, it's still up in the air as to whether Zouken will just fade away or try one last desperate gamble. Shinji wouldn't know that Zouken has a worm in Sakura. For all he knows, he just eradicated his grandpa by nuking the basement. |
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OneTrueEmiya said: CookingPriest said: No they wont So long as Zouken is still around, and Shirou has contact with Sakura, it's entirely possible for him to concoct something to make Sakura go crazy. It won't be easy, with Shinji becoming nice and Shirou not in a relationship with her, but the worm is still there and he could still mess with some stuff. Of course, this is all just conjecture. Until Nasu actually writes up a sequel, it's still up in the air as to whether Zouken will just fade away or try one last desperate gamble. Shinji wouldn't know that Zouken has a worm in Sakura. For all he knows, he just eradicated his grandpa by nuking the basement. *points at FHA* that's as good as you will get on how that family lives in the ends where zouken survives for some reason(which is doubtful in the first place to happen) |
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iravuseiba said: Sakura obviously. She got fucked over before her life even began. She gets ntr'd by a spirit in fate route. She gets ntr'd by her sister in UBW. Rin goes all mother of all bitches on her in HF only to make Sakura feel like shit when Rin suddenly decides to be a good sister for once near the very end. Szefi said: thisSakura. |
| BAN ME |
CookingPriest said: OneTrueEmiya said: So long as Zouken is still around, and Shirou has contact with Sakura, it's entirely possible for him to concoct something to make Sakura go crazy. It won't be easy, with Shinji becoming nice and Shirou not in a relationship with her, but the worm is still there and he could still mess with some stuff. Of course, this is all just conjecture. Until Nasu actually writes up a sequel, it's still up in the air as to whether Zouken will just fade away or try one last desperate gamble. Shinji wouldn't know that Zouken has a worm in Sakura. For all he knows, he just eradicated his grandpa by nuking the basement. *points at FHA* that's as good as you will get on how that family lives in the ends where zouken survives for some reason(which is doubtful in the first place to happen) I took their HA relationship as crack and just a poke at how scary Sakura can be, but I suppose that could be a possible end. Not outright killing Zouken just feels slightly unresolved to me, perhaps because of the things he did in HF, even if he can't do much post-UBW but wither and die if Sakura stays emotionally stable. |
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mira-nyan said: TheUnknownMerc said: It's stated that Archer doesn't know how many times he has done this, how many times he has failed or succeeded and the only thing that keeps him going is the chance, regardless of how many times he may have done this with or without fail. So no matter, like i said, what resolution he gets, he is going back, memory erased, still horrible inside. Cause off topic technically... 1) I literally didn't say any thing to oppose you. I already know all about Archer :I 2) He may get his memories erased, but he has a whole library of it available to him. He won't remember the resolution, but he will know it happened, and what happened. He'll read UBW like a book. For sakura she had horrible shit happen to her...but regardless her personality and being didn't degrade much over time. As for Zouken living it doesn't matter in terms of degrading because for as long as he lived fucking up her live, she is still not that bad off... |
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mira-nyan said: 2) He may get his memories erased, but he has a whole library of it available to him. He won't remember the resolution, but he will know it happened, and what happened. He'll read UBW like a book. Yes, and when he reads it, he'll most likely scoff and ignore it. Experiencing it is not the same as having the knowledge it happened. That's why he says the answer is only for this summoning. |
MyNameIsJeff said: iravuseiba said: Sakura obviously. She got fucked over before her life even began. She gets ntr'd by a spirit in fate route. She gets ntr'd by her sister in UBW. Rin goes all mother of all bitches on her in HF only to make Sakura feel like shit when Rin suddenly decides to be a good sister for once near the very end. Szefi said: thisSakura. Oh yeah +1. |
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Praland said: MyNameIsJeff said: this Oh yeah +1. Jumping on the Sakura bandwagon, +1 (though Rider and Caster could give them a run for their money with their historical backstories.....) |
| I'll change this as soon as I think of something clever. |
| I am gonna go with Archer. Archer, one who had a a foolish, albeit a noble ideal, got degraded into an asshole, and not even an awesome one, but a whiny idiot one. |
TheUnknownMerc said: mira-nyan said: Cause off topic technically... 1) I literally didn't say any thing to oppose you. I already know all about Archer :I 2) He may get his memories erased, but he has a whole library of it available to him. He won't remember the resolution, but he will know it happened, and what happened. He'll read UBW like a book. For sakura she had horrible shit happen to her...but regardless her personality and being didn't degrade much over time. As for Zouken living it doesn't matter in terms of degrading because for as long as he lived fucking up her live, she is still not that bad off... Insertanamehere said: mira-nyan said: 2) He may get his memories erased, but he has a whole library of it available to him. He won't remember the resolution, but he will know it happened, and what happened. He'll read UBW like a book. Yes, and when he reads it, he'll most likely scoff and ignore it. Experiencing it is not the same as having the knowledge it happened. That's why he says the answer is only for this summoning. Why do you guys assume I don't know anything? I get your point. Do I need to write pages and pages of text walls to explain it to you every nook and cranny of my one sentence? Ffs. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Why do you guys assume I don't know anything? I get your point. Do I need to write pages and pages of text walls to explain it to you every nook and cranny of my one sentence? Ffs. Someone's cranky today. I didn't say anything that implied you don't know anything, just pointed out that it's not the same. |
| It's not like you do it all the time or anything :V |
The sun is a deadly laser |
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