hatedmainofanime said: Please, stop encouraging dreams that never came true. But if had a League in the future of any route, who would be the Batman and Superman? Shirou or Waver? * thinking out loud * Don't give up your hope!!!! We will see Nasuverse Justice League fighting the mage civil war someday. |
chickenonthepan said: Nasu said that, given time, Rin will grow to the level of Aoko. So she could be more powerful than Shirou. Again, Rin doesn't against him helping people. She just wants him to not destroy himself. Actually chicken, NOT Aoko. Rin is already around that level minus true magic. In the power levels explanation it was said that she has potential to grow to the level of CIEL. ANd yeah Rin is NOT against the ideal. That much has to be made clear. She is for a SENSIBLE application of it. She has absolutely nothing against fighting for the good of all or for saving people. |
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chickenonthepan said: hatedmainofanime said: Please, stop encouraging dreams that never came true. But if had a League in the future of any route, who would be the Batman and Superman? Shirou or Waver? * thinking out loud * Don't give up your hope!!!! We will see Nasuverse Justice League fighting the mage civil war someday. Please, stop. Someone is trying to sleep here. And when would that be? After remake Tsukihime VN, Mahoyo 2, Tsukihime 2, Mahoyo 3 (It's a trilogy, right?)? 2030 maybe? |
I am Hatedmainofanime. More no one. |
CookingPriest said: Actually chicken, NOT Aoko. Rin is already around that level minus true magic. In the power levels explanation it was said that she has potential to grow to the level of CIEL. My bad. =.= I remember something like: "being able to handle the like of Aoko". Ciel? good enough. |
CookingPriest said: chickenonthepan said: Nasu said that, given time, Rin will grow to the level of Aoko. So she could be more powerful than Shirou. Again, Rin doesn't against him helping people. She just wants him to not destroy himself. Actually chicken, NOT Aoko. Rin is already around that level minus true magic. In the power levels explanation it was said that she has potential to grow to the level of CIEL. ANd yeah Rin is NOT against the ideal. That much has to be made clear. She is for a SENSIBLE application of it. She has absolutely nothing against fighting for the good of all or for saving people. What is the exact level of Ciel. Anyone know? |
| I am Hatedmainofanime. More no one. |
chickenonthepan said: CookingPriest said: Actually chicken, NOT Aoko. Rin is already around that level minus true magic. In the power levels explanation it was said that she has potential to grow to the level of CIEL. My bad. =.= Still good enough. Err....discounting true magic(since that ranking treats them as magi not magicians) that is BETTER even. Ciel is HORRIBLY overpowered. And rin can always create that gem sword if she wanted to get even more haxx. hatedmainofanime said: What is the exact level of Ciel. Anyone know? Can't find exact quote now but in the whole "if magi were ranked from one to one hundred" thing, he equated Ciel with somewhere near the one hundred part. So in terms of magecraft, pretty damn high. |
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CookingPriest said: Can't find exact quote now but in the whole "if magi were ranked from one to one hundred" thing, he equated Ciel with somewhere near the one hundred part. So in terms of magecraft, pretty damn high. And she is immortal. Well, in Rin-Shirou future team, I doubt Shirou will be the main dps anyway. Rin has a lot more natural potential than him. |
Just_ChickenJan 23, 2015 10:57 PM
CookingPriest said: chickenonthepan said: My bad. =.= Still good enough. Err....discounting true magic(since that ranking treats them as magi not magicians) that is BETTER even. Ciel is HORRIBLY overpowered. And rin can always create that gem sword if she wanted to get even more haxx. hatedmainofanime said: What is the exact level of Ciel. Anyone know? Can't find exact quote now but in the whole "if magi were ranked from one to one hundred" thing, he equated Ciel with somewhere near the one hundred part. So in terms of magecraft, pretty damn high. Thank you for your answer. And a thought ... Continue or not in the path of being a hero of justice, change the status of shirou in the future? Affects he be able to reach the level of Archer or not? (I saw that the Nasu had commented about it somewhere but can not remember where) I can not see the shirou following the path of a normal life in no route ... chickenonthepan said: CookingPriest said: Can't find exact quote now but in the whole "if magi were ranked from one to one hundred" thing, he equated Ciel with somewhere near the one hundred part. So in terms of magecraft, pretty damn high. And she is immortal. She continues even immortal with the death of Roa? Immortality was not related to his existence? |
| I am Hatedmainofanime. More no one. |
hatedmainofanime said: Thank you for your answer. And a thought ... Continue or not in the path of being a hero of justice, change the status of shirou in the future? Affects he be able to reach the level of Archer or not? (I saw that the Nasu had commented about it somewhere but can not remember where) I can not see the shirou following the path of a normal life in no route ... Servant's power is amplified. So he cannot reach the level of Servant Archer. But he could reach the level of Archer when he was a human. Maybe even better because he has Rin teaches him. HF Shirou will live a pretty normal life though, because his world is pretty limited. A small happy family with Sakura in Fujuki, that is. She continues even immortal with the death of Roa? Immortality was not related to his existence? No, she becomes normal after that. :p |
| in terms of magecraft your average magus is like a water pistol while Ciel is the equivalent to a fire hydrant. this was one of the analogies i've read. as far and rin and shirou's futures go i can see them being more like the winchester's....except they have sex...and they wont destroy themselves...... |
chickenonthepan said: hatedmainofanime said: Thank you for your answer. And a thought ... Continue or not in the path of being a hero of justice, change the status of shirou in the future? Affects he be able to reach the level of Archer or not? (I saw that the Nasu had commented about it somewhere but can not remember where) I can not see the shirou following the path of a normal life in no route ... Servant's power is amplified. So he cannot reach the level of Servant Archer. But he could reach the level of Archer when he was a human. Maybe even better because he has Rin teaches him. HF Shirou will live a pretty normal life though, because his world is pretty limited. A small happy family with Sakura in Fujuki, that is. Hmm ... [quote=chickenonthepan] hatedmainofanime said: She continues even immortal with the death of Roa? Immortality was not related to his existence? No, she becomes normal after that. :p I know it. It was the impression I had when reading the end of the manga. |
survivor_heroJan 24, 2015 1:10 AM
| I am Hatedmainofanime. More no one. |
| FATE = NAIVE UBW = MATURE HF = CRAZY So i guess it will be UBW~ |
| UBW. mira-lala said: UBW - Will become a Hero even if Rin is there. *cough*Archer*cough* ....UBW Shirou isn't Archer....? It really doesn't, as it's not the truth. What can Rin do? Huh? Just being there, isn't going to change anything. So why does Archer himself say that she can? Edit:Man, this thread was just a flame war waiting to happen, huh? |
InsertanamehereJan 24, 2015 1:30 AM
Maloghurst said: in terms of magecraft your average magus is like a water pistol while Ciel is the equivalent to a fire hydrant. this was one of the analogies i've read. as far and rin and shirou's futures go i can see them being more like the winchester's....except they have sex...and they wont destroy themselves...... So basically their future is awesome? |
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Karin-Covenant said: UBW = MATURE "I know that it's impossible, but I'll save everyone. I already failed with Illya, but I'll save everyone. Sakura, a person I consider a family, will end up as Zouken's new clothes, but I'll save everyone. Oh, and I won't care about people that I label as evil, but I'll still save everyone." Mature indeed. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
HungryPriest said: Karin-Covenant said: UBW = MATURE "I know that it's impossible, but I'll save everyone. I already failed with Illya, but I'll save everyone. Sakura, a person I consider a family, will end up as Zouken's new clothes, but I'll save everyone. Oh, and I won't care about people that I label as evil, but I'll still save everyone." Mature indeed. uhhhh what? Did you even read the VN? Cause based on that post, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. In no way was Shirou under that mindset during the entire UBW route. I'm sorry, but you're completely clueless on this. Jokes, lololol XD |
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CookingPriest said: Maloghurst said: in terms of magecraft your average magus is like a water pistol while Ciel is the equivalent to a fire hydrant. this was one of the analogies i've read. as far and rin and shirou's futures go i can see them being more like the winchester's....except they have sex...and they wont destroy themselves...... So basically their future is awesome? Perhaps the Ufotable and the Type-moon decide to make a sequel with unpublished material for anime? [spoiler]Wow, wait, I've seen someone had a dream like this in some topic here. Forget It. |
| I am Hatedmainofanime. More no one. |
Mickdrew said: HungryPriest said: "I know that it's impossible, but I'll save everyone. I already failed with Illya, but I'll save everyone. Sakura, a person I consider a family, will end up as Zouken's new clothes, but I'll save everyone. Oh, and I won't care about people that I label as evil, but I'll still save everyone." Mature indeed. uhhhh what? Did you even read the VN? Cause based on that post, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. In no way was Shirou under that mindset during the entire UBW route. I'm sorry, but you're completely clueless on this. Jokes, lololol XD Well, I agree with Mick. No remember of UBW Shirou have this thoughts. Do not you confused the routes? |
| I am Hatedmainofanime. More no one. |
Mickdrew said: HungryPriest said: "I know that it's impossible, but I'll save everyone. I already failed with Illya, but I'll save everyone. Sakura, a person I consider a family, will end up as Zouken's new clothes, but I'll save everyone. Oh, and I won't care about people that I label as evil, but I'll still save everyone." Mature indeed. uhhhh what? Did you even read the VN? Cause based on that post, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. In no way was Shirou under that mindset during the entire UBW route. I'm sorry, but you're completely clueless on this. Jokes, lololol XD Yeah, that sounds more like Fate's unwavering no-regrets belief in the ideal. UBW Shirou is more like "The ideal itself is beautiful. Ill try to save everyone, but know that it might not always work. That's the reality and that is okay. Failing at times is point of live. The point of an ideal is that it is unachievable. It is not something you can grasp with your hands, but something you want to reach out to. It is not a goal, it is a guideline. You do not need to go to extremes to become an ideal. Living by your ideals and finding a happy life with your ideals is enough" |
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| I'm surprised how few people check spoiler tags.... |
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Mickdrew said: I'm surprised how few people check spoiler tags.... What does /s mean |
Insertanamehere said: Mickdrew said: I'm surprised how few people check spoiler tags.... What does /s mean Sarcasm - he was just baiting the whole time. |
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| /s usually mean that the text before is sarcastic, which it truly was. It is not indicative of baiting. Because the /s pretty much makes the said phrase sound opposite "So mature /s" = not mature at all. If HungryPriest was trying to indicate that is a bait by simple /s then he really need to learn on how to use /s properly, because it is not synonymous with baiting. |
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| I guess you got a point there. Still, I would've thought my post made it obvious this was just baiting. |
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| heaven's feel because Love is the most powerful weapon of all time. |
| I stand by what I said, even if it's not a popular opinion. Answer said: Shirou tells Archer how he "doesn't want to become one. He is going to become one." Those aren't words of a person who simply admires the ideal. His very being is the ideal. There are really only two things I can see him become with this Answer. He either becomes a self-destructing "superhero", throwing himself in fire until he dies or becomes Kerry probably. Or he goes "the middle road" as some called it, living different from his ideal which is same thing as breaking his ideal and becoming a full-blown hypocrite. If your ideal is making everyone happy and you accept that you can't make everyone happy, you're doing something wrong. You're breaking your guidelines. That's why it's a bad ideal. It contradicts itself. Rin is a good example of a person who sees the beauty in his ideal and admires it, but doesn't truly believe in it. Having an ideal and simply liking it are two different things. Truly having an ideal requires you to live by it at all times (or try). If a person can't do it it's either an impossible ideal and/or that person is a hypocrite. |
Stev said: ayy lmao |
SpaceHamster said: My belief is he becomes the self destructive hero, though I can see why others wouldn't see it that way. He's not going to become a CG, but he's still going to go down the path Archer did and not give a shit what happens to him in the end. ;_; Friend? |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| UBW because balance is usually the best answer to anything. |
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HungryPriest said: I stand by what I said, even if it's not a popular opinion. Answer said: Shirou tells Archer how he "doesn't want to become one. He is going to become one." Those aren't words of a person who simply admires the ideal. His very being is the ideal. There are really only two things I can see him become with this Answer. He either becomes a self-destructing "superhero", throwing himself in fire until he dies or becomes Kerry probably. Or he goes "the middle road" as some called it, living different from his ideal which is same thing as breaking his ideal and becoming a full-blown hypocrite. If your ideal is making everyone happy and you accept that you can't make everyone happy, you're doing something wrong. You're breaking your guidelines. That's why it's a bad ideal. It contradicts itself. Rin is a good example of a person who sees the beauty in his ideal and admires it, but doesn't truly believe in it. Having an ideal and simply liking it are two different things. Truly having an ideal requires you to live by it at all times (or try). If a person can't do it it's either an impossible ideal and/or that person is a hypocrite. Except that is literally the moment where Shirou stops chasing the ideal and starts admiring the IDEAL ITSELF as not a mistake. Till then it was somethng left for him to attain. Since then it is something beautiful to live by. Gods it s hilariously how UBW is TOO DEEP for some people to comprehend. StrayBotato said: UBW because balance is usually the best answer to anything. ^This Also because I am very happy for Shirou as character being able to attain actual happiness and fulfillment in life that way. |
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CookingPriest said: Gods it s hilariously how UBW is TOO DEEP for some people to comprehend. It's funny because I feel the same way about HF. Except in the reverse. It's so simple, yet still misinterpreted so badly lol |
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CookingPriest said: Gods it s hilariously how UBW isTOO DEEP for some people to comprehend. Lol. You say this like you're superior to everyone else. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
CookingPriest said: Gods it s hilariously how UBW is TOO DEEP for some people to comprehend. Top lel, too edgy. |
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WrongPriest said: CookingPriest said: Gods it s hilariously how UBW is TOO DEEP for some people to comprehend. It's funny because I feel the same way about HF. Except in the reverse. It's so simple, yet still misinterpreted so badly lol I hear you. HF is very simple: sry4theb8m8 |
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CookingPriest said: WrongPriest said: It's funny because I feel the same way about HF. Except in the reverse. It's so simple, yet still misinterpreted so badly lol I hear you. HF is very simple: sry4theb8m8 The irony xD |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| Hmm... Whilst most of the people here in this thread seem to think that the answer Shirou finds in Unlimited Blade Works is the best, most 'mature' option of them all, I personally believe otherwise. If you lot have some time, then perhaps you may like to listen to what I think about this~ It's indeed true - trying to be a hero while facing reality at the same time is a beautiful ideal, and no one has any right to deny it if it's his own choice. It's not as blind as the answer as he finds in Fate, yet not as dark as the answer he finds in HF. You people have all read through his journey and his experiences, being fellow VN readers, so you must all be aware to some extent about how he confronted Archer's cynicism, how he decided to find a middle-ground between the ideal and the reality, and that should he begin to go on the wrong path, there will always be Rin to be there by his side and stop him from going too far. Not denying reality, but also not going against his beliefs. Not being delusional, but not giving in. Therefore, it's surely the best option out of the three, right? ...thematically, that answer would be 'yes', because it's such a beautiful ideal that, even if you don't like it, you can't help but admire a hard path like that. But realistically? No matter how you put it, a self-destructive ideal is a self-destructive ideal. Put into actual application over and over, constantly clashing against reality in such a way that it refuses to break a la Archer? It's not a path as filled with thorns as the answer Fate presents, but has anyone actually thought about what this means for the future of Shirou Emiya? In other words, instead of turning himself into a singleminded life-saving machine like Fate, he will remain human. He will seek conflict after conflict in efforts to save as many people as possible, yet be held back by his own personal bonds and desires at the same time. Unable to dedicate himself to the cause of being either utterly 'selfless' or 'selfish', he will have to make painful, near-impossible decisions as he faces enemy after enemy. The Fate Shirou, when he sees no other option, will be capable of following the utilititarianism way of Kiritsugu and sacrifice those close to him for the sake of many others' survival... but the UBW Shirou, should he come to such a decision, will have to suffer far more pain as a result of it. Not that it's bad, but it's just that there's a reason people can't be superheroes in real life. At one point, Shirou wondered about the difference between 'helping people' and 'saving people'. The answer to that is simple. Helping people involves giving them support so that they can overcome a tangible problem in their lives - if they need something done, he'll try to do it for them. You could call it "easing the burden that other people have to carry". If you fail to help them, that's fine, it creates some regrets but no real harm is done. However, 'save' is a subsection of 'help', and it explicitly involves facing a threat in someone else's life. If someone has to be saved, then that means that there has to be a 'something' to confront and stop in some form. If it's an earthquake, the people in question must be brought to safety. If it's a monster, then it has to be defeated as soon as possible somehow. Heck, if it's bankruptcy, then some way to find money needs to be found, and if it's being lost without food or civilization, then a way to find home must be discovered. When someone has to be saved, this explicitly means that they are in a desperate form of danger. Hence, no matter how Shirou tries to find a middle ground, he is still at his core the hero whose ideal will drive him to throw himself into that danger to save them, every single time. In order to be a hero, he will have to actively seek out such danger, and more often than not his own life will be in danger, not to mention the fact that he'll be confronted with the lives of the people he's actually trying to save. To save someone, you must involve yourself with their threat. The probability of them defeating the threat may increase exponentially, but the consequences of failure will also increase. If it's a friend or someone close to you, that's understandable. Or, if you find yourself in a certain situation and possess both the means and opportunity to save one stranger, then it's only human to do that, because you can. If it's like that, it's fine - but these are one-time events that would normally stick with someone forever. To make it one's never-ending job is a different matter. Let's say we have a soldier, and he goes into a warzone with a probability where people have a 5% chance of dying. He survives it, and continues on fighting in the next war with the same amount of people and odds. Sure, he may accumulate experience and technique and become a veteran, decreasing his odds a little. Sure, he may have friends and allies to support him along the way, decreasing those odds a little more. However, that probability of him dying will always be there, and there is no guarantee that he will not die in vain. As he goes into more and more warzones, defying the odds each and every time, the more likely it is for him to die. If he were to dive into twenty warzones, would he still be alive at the end of it? Or how about a hundred? Or a thousand? There is no end goal to the amount of people that Shirou has to save, so it is only natural to assume that he will continue doing so for the rest of his life, risking himself on two probabilities - one, that he will live, and two, that he will succeed. Thus, no matter how beautifully you put it, it is still self-destructive. And the odds say that, even if he survives every battle, every fight to save other people, there will be people who will die and there will be times when he fails to save others. He will be prepared for it, having steeled himself for such probabilities during UBW, but that does not erase the pain. Rather, instead of ignoring the burden like he would in Fate, he'd have to bear with it as it contrasts with the 'appreciation for himself' that Rin and his other human friends will strive to give him. He will have support, but that does not change the fact that it is a tragedy. It just means that he can't become a machine and he'll have people to lick his own self-destructive wounds for him. And, believe it or not, the person called Shirou Emiya is still a human being. He still feels happiness and sadness. Perhaps twisted in his mentality, but human nonetheless. How many humans can witness death over and over again and still say "I will keep on fighting"? Really, how many people do you know that have seen even one person die and not be affected by it at all, let alone many? By following his ideal, most of his life will be filled with suffering like that, and the satisfaction of saving one life doesn't actually weigh out the regret of losing another. The odds that he will live to old age are extremely low as well, since he'll probably die saving someone. An ideal that can never be fulfilled to the end. It is all for a good cause, but it is still suffering of the utmost kind towards Shirou. Beautiful ideals are things to admire, but putting an impractical desire into practical application can only bring about constant conflict between himself and the world. THAT is the truth of the future that awaits him in the Unlimited Blade Works route. Because of this, I cannot possibly bring myself to agree with his decision in either the Fate or the Unlimited Blade Works routes. Helping others out is fine, but no one should have to undergo the danger of risking themselves to save others, which is a cruelty in and of itself, let alone make it their purpose in life! ... That's why I admire the answer Heaven's Feel provided most of all. Yes, he abandoned the beautiful ideal that Kiritsugu gave him, and stopped being a superhero in the truest sense of the word. Yes, he lost precious things in the process, and accepted the cold, hard reality. However, does anyone have any right to call that bad? He abandoned the admirable path filled with thorns and settled down for something safer after having strived harder than both his Fate and UBW selves, but can anyone truly blame him for that? In real life, people who think like that are called 'selfish', like the kind of selfishness that drives fans to push a pop idol to keep on singing even when he or she doesn't want to anymore, only on a far greater scale considering that they want him to fight to the death, again and again. The Emiya Shirou in Heaven's Feel had to undergo way more than either of his other two selves and had to make various sacrifices, to the point of not being human at the end of it all. Just a remote-controlled human-shaped puppet. Yet, he worked hard to reach that end, and it is indeed an 'end', whereas you could call both Fate and UBW nothing more than the start of a greater, far more dangerous journey. At the end of Heaven's Feel, he will not fight anymore, nor will he throw himself into even more warzones and risk his life over and over, constantly surrounding himself with human sufferings. Instead, he will settle down, having realized his ideal in the most simplest way possible; saving one life. That of Matou Sakura. By saving one life, his life has been given meaning...and was it not the same for his predecessor, Kiritsugu? Surely, there will be plenty of consequences for what occurred in the Holy Grail War, plenty of trauma and despair. Suffering does not end just like that, and really, it's a guarantee in any living being's life. It's simply that, without any more life-threatening hardships in the future, Shirou has the opportunity to recover and build a new life beyond all that. Unlike the other two route ends, wherein he will be driven towards an end that pretty much guarantees more suffering, at the very least he has the chance to recover here without taking on a high, unspecified amount of extra inhuman burden... And truly, out of everything, this is the most human answer. That concludes my thoughts on this matter. I'm sure many of you will beg to differ with my opinion, but I hope I've at least given you something to think about. Edit: Whoa, wait, did I just spend an hour writing this? I really should stop writing essays as a habit xD |
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MercifulPriest said: I agree that HF is the most human answer, and that UBW isn't the best, but all the answers are destructive in one way or the other. At least in HF he can live his life with Sakura. =3 Inb4, Fai saying this is wrong. Stay strong, Merci-chan! In other words, I agree with 98.99999999999999999999999999% of this :DDD |
mira-pyonJan 24, 2015 6:32 AM
The sun is a deadly laser |
| While I don't agree with Heaven's Feel's answer at least in the context of Fate Stay Night, I agree it is the most human of them and believe that people themselves would follow this same path(I would follow this as my friends and loved one are more important). I predict this result in my next poll. |
| “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth. - Shinichi Kudo” - Gosho Aoyama The Ayako Mitsuzuri Fan Club Taiga Fuji-nee Club Prince Kashima Club |
| Yeah, it's tough to choose ideals over the people you care for. Their value can't be measured against another's life. |
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mira-lala said: I agree that HF is the most human answer, and that UBW isn't the best, but all the answers are destructive in one way or the other. At least in HF he can live his life with Sakura. =3 Inb4, Fai saying this is wrong. Stay strong, Merci-chan! In other words, I agree with 98.99999999999999999999999999% of this :DDD Why thank you~ And yes, it's true, all three routes are destructive in some form. But well, that's the Holy Grail War for ya. With fourteen participants plus extra in a bloody battle royale, there's no such thing as a peaceful resolution. Even in the Heaven's Feel end, there's no guarantee that he'll be able to live happy or fulfilled. When it comes to the 'answer', it's really just a matter of what people think is more right and what they value more. |
CarenPriestessJan 24, 2015 7:08 AM
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| I would not say HF is most human. Unless we assume being "human" means being a fuck up and destroying himself. I find HF Shirou disgusting and unhealthy, to be honest. It is the only Shirou whose character I do not like, mainly because I DO NOT believe that the realit is some awful place where you can do nothing but lose and sacrifice. If it was a choice, I'd rather approach the world and my life the way UBW Shirou does and not HF Shirou, because if I had HF Shirou's viewpoint to EVERRRYTHING I would end up hanging on a tree in a week. Can we please stop using the ridiculous phrases like "Cold hard reality" - all it does is reveal you as a nihilist. not describe the world. Its okay to follow nietzschean nihilism as your lifestyle, but let's not pretend that that is the DEFINITIVE definition of reality, because reality is subjective. I think that's where the difference in opinion comes - which Shirou we prefer depends on HOW we see the world. For me - the world is full of possibilities, good and bad, so a balanced Shirou seems most human while other two - extremes(well they are designed to be unhealthy extremes but still). HF Shirou's world is limited and small and bleak, while UBW Shirou's world is literally unlimited. Still if going by objective viewppoint and discarding bias notions like "cold harsh reality" etc, UBW Shirou lives the HEALTHIEST life because he does not go to extremes Fate and HF Shirous do. He has healthiest relationship out of three, his relationship is most balanced and even and he is capable of leading a happy and good life instead being dragged down to his death by the consequences of 10 years ago. UBW Shirou is the ONLY Shirou who "escapes' the Great Fire by actually building up his life again from it and actually GAINING something from it. |
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| Jesus, how many words is that, Merci? Props to ya for being able to go through with that... |
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| That post is mostly superficial bullshit though that can be trimmed down into paragraph or two so meh. It is just made harder to read so people would not debate the points in it. |
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| Can't hear you while you have your head buried in your ass, Fai. Kindly remove it so we can get a better idea of what you're saying. |
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CookingPriest said: Still if going by objective viewppoint and discarding bias notions like "cold harsh reality" etc, UBW Shirou lives the HEALTHIEST life because he does not go to extremes Fate and HF Shirous do. He has healthiest relationship out of three, his relationship is most balanced and even and he is capable of leading a happy and good life instead being dragged down to his death by the consequences of 10 years ago. UBW Shirou is the ONLY Shirou who "escapes' the Great Fire by actually building up his life again from it and actually GAINING something from it. Well, I'm not going to try starting any arguments since it should be clear by now that we are completely opposed in this regard... ...but still, realistically, it doesn't change the fact that Shirou's jumping into danger after danger, even if he has support. By definition, involving himself in dangers that threaten his life should be unhealthy. So on what planet that is considered healthy, I have no idea. I could go on and on, but I'm just going to stop right here if that's okay with you. Even if we discuss this, since our views on HF are so different from each other, I get the feeling that we won't get anywhere~ ^^ Mickdrew said: Jesus, how many words is that, Merci? Props to ya for being able to go through with that... Hmm... *plops it into Word to check* 1800+ words, apparently. To be perfectly honest, I could probably write something way longer and address every possible interpretation and end scenario of Shirou along with his relationship with each of the heroines, how they each affect the theme, whilst further going into detail about each of the routes' answers if I felt like it, but that'd be a tad bit excessive even for me~ kill me now |
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MercifulPriest said: ... Nice analysis. BUT without "selfless" people, the world is a far worst place than it is now. Take the recent Ebola crisis in Africa for example. There were many volunteers around the world came to Africa to stop the epidemic. They risked their life. They had high chance of being infected and die. And in fact, many of them couldn't find their way back home. So why they have to put their life on the line to help the people they don't know anything about? Most of them were having a happy normal life with their friends and families, so why? They prepared for the worst. They didn't scare that they may die. They know that they cannot save everyone. There would be many victims die in front of their eyes. But they didn't stop trying. If all of them think like you: Ok, my family is living like normal. There is a little chance that the epidemic will reach here. So I just prepare for my family, and that is enough. People dying in Africa have nothing to do with me. Yeah, most people thought like this. But many people were throwing their lives on the line to stop the epidemic to save the people they don't know anything about. And you say their decision is not as human as yours? Without "heroes" like them, what you think would happen? SO no, there is no choice that is more "human" than other. It's just you choose to live the live of a hero, or a normal person. And I know most people will choose the latter. But since most people choose the latter, someone needs to be a hero. |
Just_ChickenJan 24, 2015 7:53 AM
| ^ This is a good point as well. We do need people to step up the plate when most wont. I myself I plan on becoming a Investigator in order to help stop criminal activity but of course at the same time I wish to have a family some day so that might fall into the middle ground than an extreme. :P |
| “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth. - Shinichi Kudo” - Gosho Aoyama The Ayako Mitsuzuri Fan Club Taiga Fuji-nee Club Prince Kashima Club |
chickenonthepan said: MercifulPriest said: ... Nice analysis. BUT without "selfless" people, the world is a far worst place than it is now. Take the recent Ebola crisis in Africa for example. There were many volunteers around the world came to Africa to stop the epidemic. They risked their life. They had high chance of being infected and die. And in fact, many of them couldn't find their way back home. So why they have to put their life on the line to help the people they don't know anything about? Most of them were having a happy normal life with their friends and families, so why? They prepared for the worst. They didn't scare that they may die. They know that they cannot save everyone. There would be many victims die in front of their eyes. But they didn't stop trying. If all of them think like you: Ok, my family is living like normal. There is a little chance that the epidemic will reach here. So I just prepare for my family, and that is enough. People dying in Africa have nothing to do with me. Yeah, most people thought like this. But many people were throwing their lives on the line to stop the epidemic to save the people they don't know anything about. And they say their decision is not as human as yours? Without "heroes" like them, what you think would happen? SO no, there is no choice that is more "human" than other. It's just you choose to live the live of a hero, or a normal person. And I know most people will choose the latter. But since most people choose the latter, someone needs to be a hero. Well, actually no. People, normal humans that are not Emiya Shirou, lay in the realm between selflessness and selfishness. They want to help the Ebola crisis because 1) They want to protect their family and country 2) They want to help others. Selfless and Selfish. But Emiya Shirou does not think like a human anymore. His ideals won't let him to be on the middle ground. He either saves the ones he loves, or saves the strangers. It is always a 10 for 100 thing. He saved Sakura and the rest for those people. In UBW, he couldn't save Illya, Saber, and Sakura. In Fate, he can't save his self. Mickdrew said: Jesus, how many words is that, Merci? Props to ya for being able to go through with that... The nickname lives on. Lol, now, I guess HF is the best answer. In Fate and UBW, he is still following his destructive ideal. In HF, he has no need to follow that ideal, and can live as a normal human. He's already said that he'll forget, so he won't regret. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
WrongPriest said: CookingPriest said: Gods it s hilariously how UBW is TOO DEEP for some people to comprehend. It's funny because I feel the same way about HF. Except in the reverse. It's so simple, yet still misinterpreted so badly lol In what sense? HF is pretty straightforward - it's a really fucked up situation which leads to 2 tragical ouctomes: (1) Abandoning his ideal - Saving Sakura, sacrificing other people's lives and possibily even his own in the process. (2) Embracing his ideal - Turning into a cold-hearted superhero and killing Sakura, pretty much "killing" his own self in order to become a machine. How do you think people misinterpret that? There isn't much discussion about it as of now because obviously people haven't watched it, but I don't see much room for misinterpretation |
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